- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02

by spedraja＠ono.com

I would be interested. I got one PDP-11/23 PLUS. If someone develops it for one PDP8E I got one too. Regards Sergio 2010/3/10 Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> > There was a thread recently on the comp.sys.dec newsgroup which ended up > with the suggestion from David Riley that he would be prepared to build an > FPGA-based board with a QBUS interface on one side and an SD interface on > the other which anyone could then program to emulate any disk/controller > they like. I have been in touch with him to see how much interest he has > had, because he needs a minimum number of about 10 to make it viable, but > so > far there has only been me and one other person showing an interest. David > reckons they would come to a little over $200 each (possibly less if there > is more interest). David is not yet on cctalk so he agreed to let me > cross-post this to cctalk on his behalf, but I have cc'd him so you can > reply direct. > > Regards > > Rob >

16 years, 5 months

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Wirewrap boards update

by cclist＠sydex.com

Steve, it's hard to tell. Are all of these boards used? If not, I may be interested in one. Cutting wire out of one of these is a very tedious job! Anyone have any quick-and-dirty suggestions? Thanks, Chuck

16 years, 5 months

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Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt > Sent: 10 March 2010 21:49 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Cc: 'David Riley' > Subject: Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02 > > There was a thread recently on the comp.sys.dec newsgroup which ended > up > with the suggestion from David Riley that he would be prepared to build > an > FPGA-based board with a QBUS interface on one side and an SD interface > on > the other which anyone could then program to emulate any > disk/controller > they like. I have been in touch with him to see how much interest he > has > had, because he needs a minimum number of about 10 to make it viable, > but so > far there has only been me and one other person showing an interest. > David > reckons they would come to a little over $200 each (possibly less if > there > is more interest). David is not yet on cctalk so he agreed to let me > cross-post this to cctalk on his behalf, but I have cc'd him so you can > reply direct. > > Regards > > Rob As David is currently unable to post to the list he has asked me to post the following on his behalf: ------------- So it seems there's at least quite a bit of discussion generated about the board. For those curious, here are the major design points (LONG email ahead): - The main QBUS interface (before the buffers) will be an FPGA (Altera Cyclone III EP3C16 at this point, for cost, but the same footprint will fit a 3C25 or 3C40 as well). This FPGA should be large enough to fit even rather complex devices fairly handily (you can make a soft-core 32-bit processor in less than 1k logic elements, and a 3C16 has 16k). This is, of course, assuming you build it all in the FPGA fabric; you don't have to because... - The FPGA will be bolted to the bus (16-bit, of course) of a Freescale MCF5208. This is a ColdFire (68k architecture) which runs at 166 MHz (88 MHz external bus) and also contains a 10/100 Ethernet controller. The controller requires an external PHY, but this is actually an advantage; by connecting the processor's MII to both a real 10/100 PHY and the FPGA, we can provide both RJ45 for straight-up Ethernet connections and build an MII-to-AUI bridge in the FPGA (not a day's work, for sure, but certainly doable). This means you could use this as a replacement DELQA if you have a cable kit for the external AUI connector; connect to thick/thinnet, etc. Alternatively, you could stream hard disk/tape images from a remote file server. Of course, it'll have a handful of serial consoles. In theory, you could make a CPU board with SLUs and all 4 MB RAM out of the FPGA, but this would be an extensive design effort. As to whomever asked for a clock, that should work as well. Anything you can do with a QBUS card can be done on the FPGA, it's just a matter of how much work you want to put into it. :-) I currently have 32 MB RAM and 4 MB flash slated for the processor (the processor should read the FPGA image off the SD card). - My vision for the basic build of the FPGA would actually be to just provide an interrupt-based bus interface for the processor. If the processor defines apertures for the CSRs and uses an ISR to provide the data for the reads and the writes, a 166MHz processor ought to be able to respond quickly enough to make for a fairly speedy card. If that's not enough performance, one can always implement the device in the actual FPGA fabric (if one is good with FPGAs, which can take a while for people who aren't hardware designers). Additionally, we should be able to support multiple "virtual" cards in a single board; the only limitation is the number of apertures that will fit nicely in the FPGA and the overhead of the software running on processor. At least 4 should be easily achievable. A simple DMA controller in the FPGA would go a long way towards making the performance of mass storage acceptable (processor DMAs into FPGA, FPGA DMAs into QBUS, or vice versa). This means that even software-only people should be able to implement the devices in an emulator-like fashion (without excluding the possibility of actual FPGA implementations). - Since the Coldfire is 68k and has excellent GCC support, it can be programmed entirely with Free Software. The actual hardware to program it costs $80 standalone (more or less; depends on who's building it), but most of that is assembly and PCB costs. I could integrate the same hardware onto the board for an additonal $5 or so instead. The FPGA can be programmed entirely with Altera's free (not to be confused with Free) Web Edition version of Quartus, but to program it you need either a) a $75 JTAG cable to program it or b) something running on the ColdFire to program the FPGA image (which will be the default mode on boot). The JTAG cable gives you the advantage of running the FPGA-based logic analyzer. - And of course, yes, it will be a fully open architecture. I'm using KiCAD (FOSS) to do the schematic and layout. Anyone should be able to make the board if they want, but it'll be expensive for small runs. For those of you who think $200 each is in the stratosphere, here's my current (rough) BOM at two different run sizes: Part Description Qty Price at 10 Price at 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------ EP3C16E144C8N FPGA (EQFP-144) 1 26.70 26.70 DP83848 10/100 PHY 1 4.29 3.50 SST39VF3201 2M x 16 NOR flash 1 3.61 3.61 IS43R16160B-6 16M x 16 DDR RAM 1 6.00 5.40 EN5335QI DC-DC converter 3 5.51(16.53) 5.41(16.23) SN74AS641DW Octal bus xcvr 4 4.80(19.20) 4.04(16.16) J0026D21ENL RJ45 w/magnetics 1 4.825 4.825 Assembly aapcb.com, 50 parts 1 47.00 39.80 PCB 4pcb.com 1 72.44 36.26 --------------------------------------------------------------- Total 200.59 152.48 This doesn't include the scads of little resistors and capacitors and a few other cheap parts I'd need to place, which while very cheap may drive the cost of assembly up. The PCB pricing is for a 5.3" x 8.4" board, 1 edge gold fingers, 4 layers, controlled stackup (There are too many high-speed buses on this thing to risk a 2-layer board and no controlled impedance). Eliminating the gold fingers only brings the price down about $10. My $200 figure was a sort of back-of-the envelope calculation (I hadn't made out a detailed costed BOM yet). The cost is still subject to change, and a number of the parts (particularly the MCF5208) are long-lead (14 weeks and no stock anywhere). Most pricing was done at Mouser except for the components I couldn't find there (the PHY and the FPGA, and the RJ45 was cheaper at DK), which came from Digi-Key. This also doesn't include the AUI transceiver buffering, which I haven't yet worked out, and I still haven't 100% finalized the arrangement of the QBUS buffers (as it is, I'll be using transistors for a few of them since the signals don't all fit nicely in the mold of a '245-style transceiver like the 74AS641). Also, someone mentioned nonstandard thickness. As far as I was aware, the boards were 62 mils, but I haven't measured (and couldn't find a reference anywhere, and don't have a micrometer). Anyone know otherwise? In any case, I hope this answers a number of the questions out there. My plan is to implement the basic FPGA hardware mentioned as well as an implementation of the software stack for at least a few of the controller cards I have in my possession. The user end (serial console) of the processor should be able to load board personalities from the SD card as well, so setting up a repository of personalities (if others develop any) would be the way to go there.

16 years, 5 months

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calculating electricity costs

by cfox1＠cogeco.ca

At 11:32 AM 3/11/2010, you wrote: >Suppose my power company claims that the charge is $0.02407 per >killowatt/hour. If I have a computer (or anything) that draws maybe 100 >watts. that should be 0.1kw/h x 0.02407 x 24 hours = 5.7768 cents per day >or $1.73 a month. I've been under the impression for quite some time that >it costs $20 a month to run a typical modern desktop computer 24 hours a day >for a month. I know there are taxes and fees thrown into the power bill. >But what's wrong with my math? Was I wrong before or am I wrong now? I got >this kw/h price from the power company web site burried in a pdf somewhere. >It looked like the right price to me. Maybe the actual charge is much >higher? > >brian > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2736 - Release Date: >03/11/10 02:33:00 I don't know how things are where you are located, but in good old Windsor Ontario my electricity bill for an unoccupied apartment was as follows: Electricity: 33.206 kWh @0.058 / kWh $ 1.93 Delivery $ 12.65 Regulatory charges $ 0.46 Debt retirement charges $ 0.22 GST $ 0.77 TOTAL $ 16.03 Cheers Charlie Fox

16 years, 5 months

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Pistol fired on Olympic honour campaign for Turing • The Register

by woyciesjes＠sbcglobal.net

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/10/turing_olympic_tribute_idea/ -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ Registered Linux user number 464583 "From there to here, From here to there, Funny things are everywhere." --- Dr. Seuss

16 years, 5 months

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Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02

by bqt＠softjar.se

"e.stiebler" <emu at e-bbes.com> wrote: > Dave McGuire wrote: >>> >> OTOH, they old ones show up on ebay frequently, and they are not that >>> >> expensive. >> > Not that expensive? I call $100-200 for a Qbus card pretty pricey. >> > Unibus models go for many hundreds, upwards of $1000. > > Sorry, but the new one want be cheaper than that. That's why I don't > call them expensive. Indeed. If we talk $200 just for the board, and then you still have do develop the firmware, then $200 for a actual, already tested and proven SCSI controller is cheap. And new SCSI disks can still be bought as well. And while not dirt cheap perhaps, they are still not that expensive. Especially since you are not interested in several hundred gig drives for a PDP-11 anyway. Someone else asked about differences between a RQDX1 and RQDX3, from a software point of view. There is none, except in the irrelevant parts, such as the identity given by the controller, and version numbers and so on. The controllers are both MSCP. In fact, they are no different (either of them) from a KDA50, or UDA50 for that matter. Or any other MSCP controller. That's the whole point of MSCP. The controller always present the same interface to the computer. What it does on the other side is hidden. So, in fact, the device driver is the same for all these controllers, in all operating systems. MSCP is a great concept. Just wish it had survived. But, as with many DEC designs - they were technically wonderful, but they weren't PC. And PC became the de facto standard. No matter how lousy the hardware was/is. Johnny

16 years, 5 months

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Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02

by bqt＠softjar.se

"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010, e.stiebler wrote: > >> > Zane H. Healy wrote: >> > >>>> >>> OTOH, they old ones show up on ebay frequently, and they are not that >>>> >>> expensive. >>> >> >>> >> What "old ones" show up on eBay? >> > >> > The "usual" suspects like cmd, dilog, emulex ? >> > OK, in all honesty I didn't check for more than a year, but they showed up >> > before, that's why I canceled my design ... > > Okay, old 3rd party disk controllers. The problem with these is that they > also require old hard drives. I'm also slightly surprised to hear mention > of CMD controllers that aren't expensive, but then I've not looked for such > things in years. Huh? New SCSI disks works just as well. The biggest problem might be that some OSes gets confused by really big disks. With RSX for instance, the device driver used to have a bug so that disks larger than 8 Gig didn't work right. The size got masked to 24 bits... With M+ 4.6, the system instead caps the disk size at 8 Gig if the disk is larger, unless you switch to 32 bit LBNs. The only other problem with SCSI disks is that you might need to get adapters for the old style 50 pin connectors. However, as long as we talk plain SCSI, and not differential, or something else odd, it is still just fine being backward compatible... > My PDP-11's are using 1" High 3.5" SCSI Hard Drives, it does wonders for the > noise level, and helps with the power consumption, but I'm honestly a bit > worried about their long term viability. At least I have a much larger > supply of SCSI drives I can use than I do MFM Hard Drives (and yes, I have a > few of those, and a couple ESDI drives). I'm using second, or if it is third generation storage work disks for my machines. Blue boxes. Pretty. And I can put seven of them in one unit. Actually, I only have five in there, along with a DAT-3 tape unit, and an Exabyte externally. > Of course the other thing I worry about is power supplies. In fact that's > what I've been loosing VMS boxes to. :-( Power supplies for the PDP-11s? Yes, that is always a possible problem... And a bigger one than disks, I'd say. Johnny

16 years, 5 months

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General discussion of wire wrapping, was: AWG 30 stripping tools

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

I've got 3 different size wire wrapping tools. My ICT1301 uses monster wire wrap posts, most of which are made in two halves. One half is part of a printed (or some are hand wired) circuit board and the other half is part of the rack it fits in. Bare 25 AWG tinned copper wire is wrapped around the two halves, up to 25 for each board to connect the board to the rack. No tails going off anywhere else. To swap a board all the wire wraps need to be undone before the board can be slid out. It does mean every logic pin is easily accessible for fault finding, and each one has a little hook for the scope probe to hang from. The solid one are used for connecting the cabinets together, same size tool but using sleeving on the wire. Up to 1500 connections between racks. There are ten electronic cabinets, not counting the two power supply and twelve peripherals cabinets. The tool fits in the smallest size of Stanley 'yankee' spiral ratchet screwdriver. Clockwise to wrap, anti-clockwise to unwrap. I also have a similar slightly smaller one for back plane wiring of later ICL mainframes. Uses smaller pins and smaller wire otherwise identical. The third one is the more modern standard wire wrap for integrated circuits. I'm currently using it to build a serial/parallel interface to my 1301 using 74 series TTL and a few C/N MOS chips. At work I used to have a tool for this from RS components which had a wrapper on one end and unwrapper the other end and a stripper in the middle. This has probably been chucked away and a replacement is incredibly expensive so I'm making do with wire stripping pliers and a much simpler wrapping tool I bought over the internet from the states along with a half dozen colours of insulated wire.

16 years, 5 months

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Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010, Rob Jarratt wrote: > There was a thread recently on the comp.sys.dec newsgroup which ended up > with the suggestion from David Riley that he would be prepared to build an > FPGA-based board with a QBUS interface on one side and an SD interface on > the other which anyone could then program to emulate any disk/controller > they like. I have been in touch with him to see how much interest he has > had, because he needs a minimum number of about 10 to make it viable, but so > far there has only been me and one other person showing an interest. David > reckons they would come to a little over $200 each (possibly less if there > is more interest). David is not yet on cctalk so he agreed to let me > cross-post this to cctalk on his behalf, but I have cc'd him so you can > reply direct. > > Regards > > Rob > I think it would be useful to include the RD51 and RD52 in the list of supported drives. I believe it is MicroRSTS/E which expects something like an RD51 or RD52 for a system disk. Additionally would such a board support hardware partitioning? Something like the old Webster WQESD/04 EDSI boards where you can partition a drive into multiple drives that appear to be seperate physical drives to the OS? This is especially useful when running multiple OS's on the same hardware. This is something I would definitely be interested in, especially if the price is right. Another thought is, would it be possible to have it include a system clock on the same board? Zane

16 years, 5 months

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AWG 30 stripping tools

by js＠cimmeri.com

On Mar 10, 2010, at 8:19 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> I've been using a Roadrunner pen since my supply of (cheap) wire-wrap >> >> sockets dried up. Similar idea, but with enamelled copper wire >> instead. You wrap the wire round a socket pin or component lead 2 >> or 3 >> times, then solder it, run it to the next lead, wrap, solder and >> carry >> on. > > Didn't Vector have a system that used tefzel-insulated wire called > "Slit-N-Wrap" that used a wiring pen with a little spool of wire on > top? I've seen tefzel wire offered on eBay, but it always seems to > be tinned, not silverplated. From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> Yeah, I remember those ads. "Slit-N-Wrap...don't Just Wrap and wonder if the post cut the insulation". They were competing with the Just Wrap product, which is self-explanatory. -Dave I was looking at an old ad for Ok Tools' "Just Wrap" today. Are Just Wrap or Vector's Slit N' Wrap around anymore? Were these not popular? Seems like they would have been much easier than cut n' wrap. - John S.

16 years, 5 months

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Semi-OT -- IEEE 802 Committee anniversary

by evan＠snarc.net

I don't normally like to mix work with pleasure, but (selfish plug) here is an article I wrote today: http://tinyurl.com/ykpd6bn It's about the history of the IEEE LAN/MAN Standards Committe -- from which we all got standardized Ethernet, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc*. *< no shame > Slashdotting strongly encouraged. < / no shame >* *

16 years, 5 months

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DECwriters

by tsw-cc＠johana.com

Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote: >On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Dave McGuire mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: >> On Mar 9, 2010, at 3:20 PM, William Donzelli wrote: >>> Curious... >>> >>> Who here has a DECwriter I (LA30)? This is the original early 70s >>> DECwriter made out of Flip Chips. Google for a picture. >> >> ?Not me. :-( >> >>> Who here would like a DECwriter I? >>> >>> No, I am not selling, just curious... >> >> ?Oh, I'd definitely drool over such a device. ?I've typed on no end of LA34s, LA36s, and LA120s, but never an LA30. >Agreed - I have run miles of paper through the common models of teleprinters, but have never seen an LA30 up close. >-ethan I bunch of years ago, I got an LA30 decwriter that was about to be "discarded". I got the prints as well, and I added lower case to it. I used the ADM-3A method of making the lower case characters up one dot to allow for "decenders" (the LA30 uses a 5x7 matrix). I took out the 2513 character generator, and re-wired it for a 2716 EPROM. It is in my "other" garage and works OK. Plugs into dataphone and all that. I was lucky that there was an extra pin on the character generator board (or I used the negative supply I don't remember right now). The real modification I would like to do is add a FIFO chip or some such, as padding each line with a bunch of NUL characters is a pain. I guess that connecting it to my SBC6120 would be a good retro thing. Got to get it (the SBC6120) working!!

16 years, 5 months

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Xerox 820-II floppy images added to bitsavers

by richardlynch3＠tx.rr.com

For those with Xerox 820-II systems, Al has kindly posted a file on bitsavers containing images of a large collection of 8" floppies primarily for the 820-II (there are a few for other systems too) that I acquired a few years ago and just finished archiving this week. There is also an excel file with details on each floppy. These came from someone who worked as a software developer in the late 70s/early 80s and many appear to contain source code. Richard

16 years, 5 months

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Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02

by bob＠jfcl.com

>which anyone could then program to emulate any disk/controller they like. Ah, well, this is the hard part of the job, right? Building the board is the easy part. I'd buy a couple, at least, without exaggeration, if the Verilog or VHDL to make them functional already existed. Bob Armstrong

16 years, 5 months

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Old books, mostly UNIX books

by segin2005＠gmail.com

I've got a number of old UNIX books that I need to get rid of soon. Books I have: The Waite Group's UNIX? Primer Plus (Sams Publishing) ISBN 0-672-22729-0 Introduction To UNIX? (QUE Publishing) ISBN 0-88022-745-1 QuickBASIC Programmer's Toolkit (QUE Publishing) ISBN 0-88022-450-9 UNIX? Programmer's Reference (QUE Publishing) ISBN 0-88022-536-X UNIX? Networking (Hayden Books) ISBN 0-672-48440-4 Exploring the UNIX? System, Second Edition (Hayden Books) ISBN 0-672-48447-1 EXAM CRAM TCP/IP for MCSE (Certification Insider Press) ISBN 1-57610-476-1 All ISBN codes reported exactly as they appear on the physical books themselves. Abnormal or non-compliant hyphenation is therefore the fault of the publisher. "QuickBASIC Programmer's Toolkit" includes a 5.25" floppy disk. The disk is in near-perfect condition (visually), with the only noticeable issue is that the disk label has lost it's adhesiveness. Unknown whether it is 360K or 1.2M. Whoever takes this book, I request that you image this disk for me. Something mountable using a loopback device, please, no DOS Teledisk format or whatever. Please reply either on or off list. Shipping location is Gibsonton, Florida, United States of America. Zip/Postal is 33534. I have to get rid of these by Saturday. I don't want to have to garbage them if someone will take them.

16 years, 5 months

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Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02

by steve＠cosam.org

> There was a thread recently on the comp.sys.dec newsgroup which ended up > with the suggestion from David Riley that he would be prepared to build an > FPGA-based board with a QBUS interface on one side and an SD interface on > the other which anyone could then program to emulate any disk/controller > they like. I should've known I'd miss something like this if I stopped following the newsgroups... I've been working on something similar, which would essentially be an SD and/or ATA-based MSCP adapter. The current design is based on an ARM microcontroller handling MSCP and physical storage and an as yet to be selected PLD of some description for the QBus interface and DMA. It's still in the early stages, but I have a fair bit of it worked out and have started on a prototype. I'm not a bit fan of duplicated effort, so depending on how far David's project is and the common goals, maybe there is room for collaboration or even combination of projects to some degree. > I have been in touch with him to see how much interest he has > had, because he needs a minimum number of about 10 to make it viable, but so > far there has only been me and one other person showing an interest. David > reckons they would come to a little over $200 each (possibly less if there > is more interest). If it does MSCP and all the stuff I want my own project to do (or can be easily programmed to do so) I'd want one - would save me a lot of work ;-) At $200 a pop though, I would be more interested in two or three unpopulated PCBs than a complete unit. Cheers, -- Steve Maddison http://www.cosam.org/

16 years, 5 months

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Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On Mar 10, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote: > There was a thread recently on the comp.sys.dec newsgroup which > ended up > with the suggestion from David Riley that he would be prepared to > build an > FPGA-based board with a QBUS interface on one side and an SD > interface on > the other which anyone could then program to emulate any disk/ > controller > they like. I have been in touch with him to see how much interest > he has > had, because he needs a minimum number of about 10 to make it > viable, but so > far there has only been me and one other person showing an > interest. David > reckons they would come to a little over $200 each (possibly less > if there > is more interest). David is not yet on cctalk so he agreed to let me > cross-post this to cctalk on his behalf, but I have cc'd him so you > can > reply direct. [raises hand] -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

16 years, 5 months

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Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

There was a thread recently on the comp.sys.dec newsgroup which ended up with the suggestion from David Riley that he would be prepared to build an FPGA-based board with a QBUS interface on one side and an SD interface on the other which anyone could then program to emulate any disk/controller they like. I have been in touch with him to see how much interest he has had, because he needs a minimum number of about 10 to make it viable, but so far there has only been me and one other person showing an interest. David reckons they would come to a little over $200 each (possibly less if there is more interest). David is not yet on cctalk so he agreed to let me cross-post this to cctalk on his behalf, but I have cc'd him so you can reply direct. Regards Rob

16 years, 5 months

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PDP-11 Color Codes

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

I think the rack headers all faded fairly rapidly and especially on the plastic panels, some yellowing went on as well. I think the actual shade on any given sample could be used by industrial archaeologists to deduce the UV and ozone contents of previous decades :(. I personally don't like faded or yellowed colors so when I want to re-do a paint job, I always choose a hue and shade more vibrant than any of my existing samples. So go pick the most vibrant burgundy and maroon you can find at the paint shop. Tim.

16 years, 5 months

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Another Cortesi book online - CP/M Programmer's Notebook

by jack.rubin＠ameritech.net

Dave has added the CP/M Programmer's Notebook to his website? - http://www.tassos-oak.com Links to the Notebook and Dr.Dobbs Z80?Toolbook are at the bottom center of the page. If you aren't familiar?with his work, take a look. Highly recommended! Jack

16 years, 5 months

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HPCC schematics CD-ROM version 4.0

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

There is now a new version of the HPCC schemaitcs CD-ROM. This one contains schematics for around 140 classic computer devices, I'll put a full list at the end of this message. As with the older disks, the schemaitcs are hand-drawn (by me). You will ahce to put up with my writing :-). There;s very little apart from the schematics, there are no isntruction o ntaking the things apart, no theory-of-operation information, and so on. In some cases the HP service manual is avaialble on-line, and will contain some of that information. All profits go to HPCC (Handheld and Portable Computer Cluh). To order the disk (I believe it's now 2 CD-ROMs or 1 DVD-ROM), please contact Dave Colver, sectretary at hpcc.org, who can tell you the price, etc And now for the machines chargers/eramco_pp Portable Plus car charger (Eramco) chargers/hp82028 chargers/hp82054 Car charger chargers/hp82055 Woodstock car charger desktops/hp110 `Portable' desktops/hp120 CP/M machine desktops/hp120key Notes on making a keyboard for the HP120 desktops/hp50960 SRM server desktops/hp86b desktop computer, external video monitor desktops/hp87 HP87 and HP87XM desktop computers desktops/hp9100b First generation RPN desktop desktops/hp9810 Second generation RPN desktop desktops/hp9815 RPN desktop calculator desktops/hp9816 68000-based computer with internal monitor desktops/hp9817 68010-based 'shoebox' desktops/hp9820 First Algebraic desktop desktops/hp9825 First HPL desktop (also covers 9831 BASIC desktop) desktops/hp982636 HP9826 and HP9836 68000 computers desktops/hp9830 First BASIC desktop desktops/hp9845b Desktop Computer, Opt 200 High speed language processor desktops/hp9915 Industrial control computer (based on HP85) desktops/integral Portable unix machine handhelds/classic/hp35 First handheld scientific handhelds/classic/hp45 Second handheld scientific handhelds/classic/hp55 Scientific with timer handhelds/classic/hp65 First handheld programmable handhelds/classic/hp67 Handheld programmable handhelds/classic/hp70 Simple financial handheld handhelds/classic/hp80 Financial handheld handhelds/hp48sxKeyboard HP48SX keyboard matrix handhelds/printing_classic/hp46 Printing 45 handhelds/printing_classic/hp81 Printing 80 (with many more functions) handhelds/spice/hp32e Non-continuous memory Spice (other 3xE are similar) handhelds/spice/hp33c Continuous memory Spice (other 3xC are similar) handhelds/sting/hp10a Printing adding machine handhelds/sting/hp19c Programming printing calculator handhelds/topcat/hp91 Printing scientific calculator handhelds/topcat/hp92 Printing financial calculator handhelds/topcat/hp95c Never-released printing programmable calculator handhelds/topcat/hp97sio I/O module part of HP97S handhelds/voyager/hp16c Programmer's calculator handhelds/woodstock/hp21 Scientific calculator handhelds/woodstock/hp22 Financial calculator handhelds/woodstock/hp25 Programmable calculator handhelds/woodstock/hp25c Continuous memory programmable calculator handhelds/woodstock/hp27 Financial and scientific calculator handhelds/woodstock/hp29c Continuous memory programmable calculator peripherals/dio/hp50962 DIO SRM Coax interface peripherals/dio/hp98204a DIO TV-rate video interface peripherals/dio/hp98204b DIO Video board (including graphics) peripherals/dio/hp98256 DIO 256K RAM PCB peripherals/dio/hp98257 DIO 1M RAM PCB peripherals/dio/hp98259 DIO 128K Bubble memory PCB peripherals/dio/hp98261 DIO ROM PCB peripherals/dio/hp98604 ROM HPL PCB for HP9000/200 machines peripherals/dio/hp98620b DIO DMA controller peripherals/dio/hp98622 DIO GPIO board peripherals/dio/hp98624 DIO HPIB Interface peripherals/dio/hp98626 DIO RS232 Interface peripherals/dio/hp98628 DIO RS232 Interface (Z80 controlled) peripherals/dio/hphil DIO HP-HIL/HPIB interface peripherals/dio/kbd9920 HP9920 keyboard interface/HPIB PCB peripherals/dio/kgmram KGM 1M DIO RAM board peripherals/dio/wkbp4a 3rd party 256K DIO RAM board peripherals/hhp_eprom EPROM box for HP41 peripherals/hp11202 8 bit parallel interface for HP98x0 peripherals/hp11203 BCD interface for HP98x0 peripherals/hp11205 RS232 interface for HP98x0 peripherals/hp11206 Modem interface for HP9830 peripherals/hp11284 Datacomms interface for 9830 peripherals/hp11336 Printer interface (HP9871) for HP98x0 peripherals/hp13264 Data link interface peripherals/hp13267 First multipoint interface peripherals/hp2671g HPIB Thermal printer peripherals/hp27201 HPIB extender peripherals/hp2748a Optical paper tape reader peripherals/hp35731 Monochrome monitor for HP9000/200 machines peripherals/hp46020 First type HP-HIL keyboard peripherals/hp46021 Second type HP-HIL keyboard peripherals/hp5055 Digital Recorder (strip printer) peripherals/hp59301 HPIB parallel interface peripherals/hp59304 HPIB remote display unit peripherals/hp59306 HPIB relay actuator peripherals/hp59308 HPIB timing generator peripherals/hp59309 HPIB digital clock peripherals/hp59401 HPIB analyser peripherals/hp59403 HPIB common carrier interface peripherals/hp59405 HPIB interface for HP9830 peripherals/hp59500 HPIB interface for HP6940 multiprogrammer peripherals/hp6940b Multiprogrammer peripherals/hp7245a Thermal printer/plotter peripherals/hp7440hpib HPIB ColourPro plotter peripherals/hp7470opt003 HPIL Plotter peripherals/hp7475 HPIB Plotter peripherals/hp7959b HPIB hard disk unit (ESDI drive) peripherals/hp82104 Card reader for HP41 peripherals/hp82143 Dedicated thermal printer for HP41 peripherals/hp82153 Barcode Wand for HP41 peripherals/hp82162 HPIL thermal printer peripherals/hp82168 HPIL modem peripherals/hp82440a IR thermal printer peripherals/hp82440b IR thermal printer peripherals/hp82901 Dual 5.25" disk drive peripherals/hp82905 Dot matrix printer (either HPIB or HPIL) peripherals/hp82985 Portable Plus video interface peripherals/hp9114a HPIL disk drivc peripherals/hp9114b HPIL disk drive peripherals/hp9121 Single-sided 3.5" HPIB floppy drive peripherals/hp9122 Double-sided 3.5" disk drive peripherals/hp9123 HPIB floppy drive for the HP150-II peripherals/hp9125a Plotter for HP9100 peripherals/hp9133h HPIB hard/floppy disk unit peripherals/hp9133vxv HP913V, HP9133XV hard/floppy disk units peripherals/hp9154b HPIB hard disk unit (Nighthawk drive) peripherals/hp98033 BCD interface for HP9825 peripherals/hp98034 HPIB interface for HP9825 peripherals/hp98035 Real time clock module for HP9825 peripherals/hp98036 RS232 interface for HP9825 peripherals/hp98133 BCD interface for HP9815 peripherals/hp98134 GPIO interface for HP9815 peripherals/hp9862if Plotter interface (only) for HP98x0 peripherals/hp9865 Cassette drive for HP98x0 -- Interface ONLY peripherals/hp9866 Thermal printer for 9800-series peripherals/hp9877 External tape drive for HP9825 peripherals/hp9878 Expansion chassis for HP9825 peripherals/hp98780 Enhanced mono monitor for HP9845B peripherals/ipc/hp82904 Expansion interface for Integral peripherals/ipc/hp82915 Modem PCB for Integral peripherals/ipc/hp82916 RAM PCBs for Integral peripherals/ipc/hp82919 RS232 interface for Integral peripherals/ipc/hp82971 ROM/EPROM module for Integral peripherals/mp/hp69321b 12-bit voltage D/A for multiprogrammer peripherals/mp/hp69330a Relay output for multiprogrammer peripherals/mp/hp69351 Voltage regulator for multiprogrammer peripherals/mp/hp69422a High-speed A/D for multiprogrammer peripherals/mp/hp69431a Digital input for multiprogrammer peripherals/mp/hp69502a Resistance program for multiprogrammer peripherals/paintjet Colour inkjet printer peripherals/rsu Eramco MLDL unit for HP41 peripherals/rsu2 Eramco MLDL for HP41 (card reader case) peripherals/wand75d Wand for the HP75D -tony

16 years, 5 months

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OT: Televisions

by brianlanning＠gmail.com

Well, maybe not so off topic... I have two things I'd like to ask about. First, I'll be replacing the display for my main computer shortly. I'd like to get something larger than 20". I'm thinking an LCD wide format thingy. I'm considering getting a "flat" television instead of a monitor. Most of them have DVI or VGA connectors on them. But they also include component inputs, HDMI, and maybe some other things that can ease connection to classic computers. A composite RCA is a must. Can anyone suggest a TV model that that's relatively fast (like < 8ms), and has a high enough resolution that would also be good for the classic stuff? I'm thinking 1080p would be fine for a windows desktop. The next question pertains to console televisions. I'd like to find (much to my wife's dismay) a console television like the one my parents had back in the late 70s. I'd like to use it to play old video game consoles from the 70s and 80s. I believe these were all vacuum tube sets though, is that correct? Is there a good source for these things (the TVs and the tubes) today? I imagine people threw them away mostly. If these are difficult to find and/or maintain, I've considered trying to create a replica console television from a newer set, maybe even something with an LCD in it. I'd probably prefer an original though. Then i could invite my mother over and sit too close to the television for her. brian

16 years, 5 months

21
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XXDP program to test a DLV11-J

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

Does anyone know if an XXDP program exists to test a DLV11-J? Any do you also know the name of the program? Thank you in advance if you can help. Jerome Fine

16 years, 5 months

2
1
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Adding VGA, PS/2 keyboard, and microSD to generic Z80 CPU classic computers

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

> platforms. > > The idea is impressive, but that PCB is huge. Any chance the design could be made smaller? Jim Hi Jim I was thinking more about your question. The system in the photos is using a standard PropIO board with a *prototype* CPU adapter "shim socket" which would *not* be part of the final design. If the tests prove out then the perfboard and ribbon cable would be replaced with a 2"x1.5" shim socket PCB that would plug in under the host Z80 CPU. It would export the Z80 pins out to 40 pin dual row header. The PropIO would connect to the shim socket PCB via a 40 conductor ribbon cable. So yes, in that sense the system would be smaller than what is pictured in the N8VEM post. It would be functionally identical. I hope that clarifies things. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

16 years, 5 months

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Adding VGA, PS/2 keyboard, and microSD to generic Z80 CPU classic computers

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

> platforms. > > The idea is impressive, but that PCB is huge. Any chance the design could be made smaller? Jim Hi Jim The PropIO was designed as an ECB standard board (160x100mm) Eurocard format and is intended for use with the rest of the N8VEM system. However, the subject came up of adding SD to KayPro on the vintage-computer.com forums and rather than designing a board unique to that system my hope is to reuse an existing part with little or no modification. If you were to design a specific Propeller board for the KayPro it could be much smaller but then it would be forever tied to that platform. The concept here is to make an adapter board to allow general purpose N8VEM boards to provide IO to the less common vintage computers that are "stranded" due to lack of current hardware development and/or small developer community. WaveMate Bullet is an example but I am sure there are dozens if not hundreds of others. I am trying to gauge what sort of interest there is in this approach if any. Certainly this is less than optimal solution for any specific machine but then it may be applicable across a whole spectrum of vintage computers (Z80 DIP 40 socket). Most likely this idea will go no where but it is interesting to me and the initial test results are showing promise. This in theory could be a way to add features like DiskIO (IDE/FDC), video (VDU), or microSD (PropIO) to less common systems that otherwise would never get it. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch PS, the empty sockets on the PropIO are for the second Propeller. It is currently unallocated but communicates with the SBC over the ECB in a similar fashion as the first Propeller which serves the PS/2 keyboard, VGA, and microSD interface. The second Propeller has several free IO pins which are intended for builder experimentation. There are a few proposed ideas on how to use the second Propeller such as an EN28J60 Ethernet interface with PropNIC and/or the Propeller USB converter. I was planning initially on adding TV, audio, and some other toy doodads but the other builders convinced me to keep the second Propeller unallocated and instead add the mini prototyping area. The PropIO also includes a mezzanine connector and mounting hardware for a full sized mezzanine "upper deck" so builders can add whatever suits them. PropIO is a rather experimental board and not really a final design - more of a proof of concept. Thus it is ideal for situations where non-typical adaptations like jamming into a KayPro are being explored.

16 years, 5 months

1
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Adding VGA, PS/2 keyboard, and microSD to generic Z80 CPU classic computers

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi! I am working with one of the N8VEM builders to make an interface to allow a generic Z80 CPU computer (DIP 40 socket) to interface to the N8VEM PropIO board. The benefit of this would be that any Z80 computer with a DIP 40 socket could add VGA, PS/2 keyboard, and microSD capability. I think this would be helpful for debugging and also transferring data from legacy platforms. http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem/msg/b287ef9fbe0f1e8d Since the board plugs directly into the Z80 CPU socket it is independent of any particular bus. Any new installation would require custom software for the platform. It appears the KayPro can access the PropIO using MBASIC so writing software should be practical. In theory, this approach may be applicable to any of the N8VEM ECB peripheral boards (Disk IO, VDU, prototyping board, etc). The concept may be applicable to other CPUs with the appropriate shim socket PCBs. I believe this could be particularly helpful for classic computers that lack an active development community. If anyone is interested in doing some experimentation with your vintage Z80 computer please contact me. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

16 years, 5 months

7
6
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History of ....

by evan＠snarc.net

Dare I say it, here's a good piece on the history of (gasp!) Windows: http://technologizer.com/2010/03/08/the-secret-origin-of-windows/ Don't kill the messenger. :)

16 years, 5 months

1
0
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Wirewrap boards update

by steerex＠ccvn.com

Yo! I have posted a few pictures of the wirewrap boards that are offered. I haven't used this free service before so, I hope the links work OK for everyone. http://tinypic.com/r/2q0iovn/6 http://tinypic.com/r/whhb7o/6 http://tinypic.com/r/2cp97j5/6 http://tinypic.com/r/kaqkjl/6 http://tinypic.com/r/2ed1esm/6 http://tinypic.com/r/2chw679/6 My brain is getting kinda soft so, I mistakenly said the pins were on a .4" X .1" grid. That is not correct. They are on a .3" X .1" grid. So all the common DIP packages will plug right in. Sorry for any confusion. SteveRob steerex [at] ccvn [dot] com

16 years, 5 months

1
0
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DECwriters

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

Curious... Who here has a DECwriter I (LA30)? This is the original early 70s DECwriter made out of Flip Chips. Google for a picture. Who here would like a DECwriter I? No, I am not selling, just curious... -- Will

16 years, 5 months

5
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Old books, mostly UNIX books

by segin2005＠gmail.com

I want $5 + shipping per book; I'll try to minimize shipping costs by shipping all the books together. As for publishing years: The Waite Group's UNIX? Primer Plus 1991 Introduction To UNIX? 1992 QuickBASIC Programmer's Toolkit 1989 UNIX? Programmer's Reference 1992 UNIX? Networking 1991 Exploring the UNIX? System, Second Edition 1991 EXAM CRAM TCP/IP for MCSE 1999 Also, I did not originally list this book: UNIX? Shell Commands: Quick Reference (QUE Publishing) ISBN 0-88022-572-6 1992 On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 18:37, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. <rtellason at verizon.net>wrote: > > What years were they published? That would help. Too, you don't say what > you'd want for them? > > -- > Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and > ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can > be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" > - > Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. > --James > M Dakin >

16 years, 5 months

1
0
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ACM Turing Award Goes to Creator of First Modern Personal Computer

by glen.slick＠gmail.com

Saw this in the news today: http://www.acm.org/press-room/news-releases/2010/turing-award-09/ NEW YORK, March 9, 2010 ? ACM, the Association for Computing Machinery today named Charles P. Thacker the winner of the 2009 ACM A.M. Turing Award http://awards.acm.org/2010/turing-award.cfm for his pioneering design and realization of the Alto, the first modern personal computer, and the prototype for networked personal computers. Thacker?s design, which he built while at Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center), reflected a new vision of a self-sufficient, networked computer on every desk, equipped with innovations that are standard in today?s models. Thacker was also cited for his contributions to the Ethernet local area network, which enables multiple computers to communicate and share resources, as well as the first multiprocessor workstation, and the prototype for today?s most used tablet PC, with its capabilities for direct user interaction. The Turing Award, widely considered the ?Nobel Prize in Computing,? is named for the British mathematician Alan M. Turing. The award carries a $250,000 prize, with financial support provided by Intel Corporation and Google Inc.

16 years, 5 months

1
0
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Rack rails

by silvercreekvalley＠yahoo.com

Does anyone have any rack rails for sale (uk) for a regular 19" rack? These don't need to be the sliding type just a basic L shape rail? Contact me of list if you have anything. They are tricky to find for a reasonable price Thanks Ian

16 years, 5 months

2
1
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rare systems

by evan＠snarc.net

Guys, don't confuse "rare" with "more historic". "Rare" just means "fewer". If the people at Tandy produced a limited-edition TRS-80, and the only difference was it had a yellow polka-dot case design, and only 100 were ever made, does that mean it's more "rare" than a Straight-8? Technically, yes! Does that make it more historic? It's too dumb a question to even ask. (I'm not putting down the PERQ systems, etc.; those are certainly historic in their own regard.) And yes, DEC isn't as popular as Apple; there won't be millions of DEC fanboys and stuff ...... But it's hard to argue that the Straight-8 isn't one of the most * historic * systems ever made, re: historic = grand context and importance to the history of the computer industry. Rarity is a big factor too, but the '8 has it all. Historic, rare, desirable.

16 years, 5 months

10
16
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OT: for Christian Corti

by js＠cimmeri.com

Christian, received your email fine but still unable to reply. Here's the kind of errors I'm receiving, even with different email addresses: ---------------------------------------- A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: corticn at zdi2.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de <mailto:corticn at zdi2.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> (generated from cc at corti-net.de <mailto:cc at corti-net.de>) SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<corticn at zdi2.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de <mailto:corticn at zdi2.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>>: host mailgw.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.211.42]: 554 5.7.1 <jws at casient.net <mailto:jws at casient.net>>: Sender address rejected: Access denied ---------------------------------------- Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. <cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>: 129.69.211.41 does not acknowledge recipient. Remote host said: 554 5.7.1 <js at cimmeri.com>: Sender address rejected: Access denied Giving up on 129.69.211.41. - John Singleton

16 years, 5 months

1
0
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Northstar Horizion

by rodsmallwood＠btconnect.com

Wanted all parts (excluding motherboard) for a Northstar Horizon preferably in the UK. Specifically: Any suitable S100 boards (Northstar originals if possible) Case/Chassis SA400 Floppy Drives Fortunately I can get the right PSU capacitors and a new 2 x 8v + 1 x 15v transformer wound to order. Not original but safer. Rod Smallwood

16 years, 5 months

1
0
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Selling Calcomp 565 plotter

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

I'm working on clearing out my warehouse, and I'm selling one of my Calcomp 565 plotters on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220550441602 It came with a load of DG Nova gear that I rescued, but I've never had the opportunity to test it out. Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

16 years, 5 months

22
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Way OT: hydroponics

by brianlanning＠gmail.com

If anyone here is into hydroponics, please let me know off-list. I have a few questions. Thanks. My wife suggested I use a classic computer to monitor the system. :-) brian

16 years, 5 months

1
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by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 22:25:32 -0800 3/8/10, Sellam wrote: A straight-8 has come up for sale. I am representing the seller.... At 06:03:06 -0500 3/8/10, Steve wrote: >Hey guys, >Sorry for the shameful plug but... Kudos to Steve for his manners! Yeah, I know. :-( See the subject. Couldn't resist the 'attaboy. Don't think Sellam reads this anyway.

16 years, 5 months

2
1
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OT: Best Glue for Marble

by ploopster＠gmail.com

Apologies for the OT, but there seem to be quite a few people on this list who are familiar with the subject of glue. I need to attach two pieces of marble to each other. There is a tiny gap between the pieces. What would be the best glue to use for something this hard, smooth and impermeable? Peace... Sridhar

16 years, 5 months

4
3
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Anyone running RTE-M on an HP 21MX series M, E, or F?

by js＠cimmeri.com

> [Christian Corti replied:] > Hm, I've never tried RTE-M, although I have rev. 2140 on magtape. ** Christian, thank you for taking the time to reply. I'd like to ask you a question re your RTE-M off-list... would you kindly send me your email? js at cimmeri.com -- I tried your "cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de" address a few times but it bounces back. > Instead, I prefer RTE-6/VM on the 1000F. I have a setup with a 7905 > (shared in a multi-cpu configuration with a HP 2100S), a 7970B, a > 7970E, a 9122C, a 7958B (system disk), 2648 on a BACI and a terminal > server on all the ports of an 8-channel MUX. Lovely system, and very > different from most modern stuff. > And the 2100S runs RTE-II from the fixed platter of the 7905. ** I am very impressed with your collection. How did you get a 9122C working? > Simh has proved to be very useful especially when generating a new > system. ** Yes, it looks like we'll be forced to use SIMH to try to generate a CS/80 compatible primary tape. John Singleton

16 years, 5 months

1
0
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Taking offers on PDP-8 (straight-8)

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> 2. How did Humphrey Bogart get in there? > Or is it straight-8 -> treasure -> happy? Suggested language usage: Dude, don't bogart that straight 8! Tim.

16 years, 5 months

2
1
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They never stop: Yet another fradulent relisting of Ashley's TC11/TU55/RK05 rack

by wmaddox＠pacbell.net

He's at it again: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330411796683&ssPageName=… It's been reported to eBay, as well as to the ebay account owner and the fellow who's website was apparently hijacked to host part of the listing. I've expressed interest in buying the stuff. I wonder if he'll give me enough contact info to get him busted... --Bill

16 years, 5 months

3
2
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Sorcerer II progress...

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

I rewired the transformer per Pete and Tony (thanks guys!) and replaced all of the electrolytic caps in the power supply. Looking at the Sorcerer One schematics and confirmed on the board, there is a big 10-watt resistor across the +5 regulator like the Altair 680 PS so I tested with the dummy load I made for the 680. All voltages were spot-on. Close examination of the logic board didn't show anything that looked bad so I hooked up a small LCD test display, held my breath and turned it on. I assumed I would get a screen full of garbage if anything, but it turns out the little display can detect and show PAL. The Sorcerer is up 100 percent. The RAM/stack report in the monitor start message indicates that the full 48K is there. I did some random poking around and the RAM looks basically functional. With my luck running this good, I went ahead and powered down and inserted the BASIC "8-track" ROM cartridge. Powered back up and there was Standard BASIC, fully operational. So, it looks like I have a lot less to do with this machine than I thought. I do want to convert the unit back to NTSC and I have not tested the serial or cassette ports though. Anyway, I'm going to do some cosmetics next. The keyboard is filthy, so a disassembly and wash is in order. Next, most of the perforated metal ventilation panels have fallen out. I have them all. It looks like they were glued in place with hot-melt glue. Is that how they were originally attached? Bill

16 years, 5 months

10
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Sorcerer II progress...

by alhartman＠yahoo.com

Rather than drawing a disgram of the keycaps, wouldn't a picture taken by a digital or polaroid camera be easier and faster? Al

16 years, 5 months

2
1
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HP2631B printer

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

You may rememebr that a few weeks ago I asked ofr help on the encoder of an HP2631B printer. I've not sorted it all out, and will describe what I did... The initial problem was a defective 2114 RAM (!) on the procesosr board. After replacign that, the printer rammed the carriage into the side of the mechanmism, blowing the 2 motor driver transistors and an overvoltage zenenr on the -20V line. Furtehr tests showd there were no signals coming >from the shaft encoder on the carriage movement leadscrew. I took the machine apart. Really apart. Not having the special tools to remove the encoder form the leadscrew, I found I could take them out together, You loosen the cap screw in the collar on the carriage motor shafter, free the ribbon cable from the cips onthe rear paper guide, and tkae out the 3 screws from the encoder mounting plate. The whole lot this comes out of the right hand side of the mechamism. I could then remove the end cover from the encoder (carring the IR emitter) and the little cover over the cable connections. The HP service manual warns you not t oremove the carriage rails or platten bar, since 'an important adjustment will be upset'. I reckoned that my pritner was in a pretty bad state already, and little could make it any worde, so I took it all apart. I am wondering what the HP manaul is talking about. The 2 carriage rails have their ends turned down to fit in holes i nthe side plate, so theres no way they can be moved by more than a few thou. And these ends are not eccentric, I checked. The platten bar is locared by dowel pins to each side plate. It can't move either. As far as I can see there is no problem at all with completely stripping the mechanism. This meant I could deal with that substance well-know to all classic computer people -- sound-deadening foam that turns to dust. Back to the enconder. The person who said 'sounds like the IR emitter is out' was vey close. The IR emitter was indeed not glowing. The reason was that it's conencted to the rest of the encoder by 2 little pin sockets on the emeltter assembly (encoder end cover) which fit onto wires coming out of the enocderr boddy -- one of them seems to be the end of a current limiting resistor... Anyway, one of those wires was bent and not connecting to the emitter assembly. Easy to fix when you know where to look! I crelaced the shorted zneer diode on the PSU board, and did some simple checks on the rest of the electronics. The DIP switches on the priner logic PCB and HPIB conenctor PCB were not reliable. Since an HPIB address swithc which doesn't set the address you expect is going to be a curse, I replaced them. I managed to re-stake the puchbutton assemblies on the control panel PCB -- http://www.parts.agilent.com indicates that type of switch (plastic housing heat-staked to a PCB with gold contact pads) is still avaialbe, but only if you return the instrument to Agilent for repair. Sorry, but no way... With everything back together (apart from the motor driver transistors), it was time to give it a go. I could now see that the encoder was producing pulses, that the end sensors worked, and that it wasn't trying to turn on both motor driver transsitors at the same time. Powered down, fitted the (expensive, 25A) motor driver transistors, and tried again with the lesdscrew nut unscrewed from the carriage. The idea was that if the motor 'ran away', it wouldn't slam the carriage into the side plate. Tjhis time on power-up the mtoor ran -- but at a sensible speed, there were plento of pulses from the encoder, and by just touching the leadscrew nut I found it was indeed trying to drive the carriage to the left. Time fore the real test. I ffittd the 3 screws holding the leadscrew nut to the carriage, and tired again. The carriage went to the home position, and the macjhine gave a long beep. The frontpanel buttons did nothing apart from reset (which repeated the initialisation) and On-Line which caused it to beep again. I tried frobbing the paper-out switch, it made no difference, so I guessed I had a real fault. I spend 2 hours looking at signals. The peocessor was clearly running. The end sensor signals were fine. The enocder, position counters, direction flip-flop, and so on all seemed to be doing the right things. I was beginning to think i had a nasty fault in the custom HP procesosr chip. And yet, it was running the firmware, at least enough to run the carriage to the home position, sound the beeper, and so on. Checking what the processor ws trying to do to the pritner logic PCB indicated it was reading the sensors and writng to the carriage motor register, which made sense. It wasn't randoming acccessing all the ports. What had I missed? I went back to the paper out signal. It was high (indicating out-of-paprr) at the input pin of the 3-state buffer on the printer logic PCB. It was low on the motor harness pin on the PSU board (that makes sense, there's a NOT gate on the PSU board which inverts this sigal). But it didn't change state when I frobbed the microswitch. Aha... Although the microswitch is hidden inside the printer mechanism, I managed to disconenct one of the faston terminals from it (the switch is closed when out of paper). This time when I powered the machine up, it homed the carriage and didn't beep. I could do linefeeds and formfeeds >from the panel, the on-line button worked, and the self-test seemed to be trying to print something (I'd not fitted the printhead at this stage. So the microswtich was faulty. Strangely it was stuck closed (most switch porblems cause them to not make contact). I removed the printer mechanism again, turned it over, and removed the rear paper guide (4 screws). 2 mores screws released the microswitch from the guide. And it didn't 'click' when I pressed the actuating lever. Unfortunately, although it's a standard V3 size switch, the actuator is unusual, so getting a replacement would be nnon-trivial. With nothing to lose, I drilled out the rivet holding the swtich together, took off the cover and remvoed the contacts. I then fount that other substance well-known to classic computer types -- grease that turns to cement. Cleaned it off, cleanded thee contacts (well, while I had it apart) and resassmbled it. Now it clicked. And an ohmmeter showet it was woring electrically too. Put it all back together again. Now it will initialise and respond to the control paenl -- provided there's paper in it. Time to fit the printhead (trivial), and it now makes that well-known buzzing that everybody who's ever been near a dot-matrix printer would recognise. Will it print anyhting sensible? Well, let's try the ribbon. Which is jammed. The ribbon cartridge is heat-staked together, but the hold trick of pulling htr ribbon out and widing it back in got it free enough to work. Now the self-test prints a character set -- and it looks quite sensible, Tiem to try it with a computer. I grab my HPIB test set-up (HP71 + HPIL module + HP82169 HPIL-HPIB interface) and cable it all up. Set the printer address to 4 (yes, I used a PET in the old days...) type PRINTER IS 4 and then PRINT. The darn thing does a formfeed (!). Then try PRINT"0123456789". It prints "0000444488" andanotehr formfeed. Clearly the 2 least significat bits (bits 1 and 2 in HPIB terminology) weren't gettign through (an unconnected HPIB line is high, which corresponds to logic 0 on this bus). Hence the CR character was becoming a formfeed... Fortunately I'd picked an HPIB address where this wasn't a problem, I hoped the HP custom PHI HPIB chip hadn't failed. I disconnected the HPIB cabel from the HP82159 and removed the HPIB interface PCB together with the connector PCB and HPIB cable from the printer/And then did continuity checks from the free end of the HPIB cable to the pins on the 3448 buffer chips on the HPIB PCB. Fortuneately bits 1 and 2 were indeed open.And a few morre detaild test showed it was nothing more than dirty contacts on the H{PIB socket. A cotton bud and propn-2-ol cured that. And then it printed properly -- at last. The last job was to fit the cover and platten knob, which was trivial -- at least after everything else. -tony

16 years, 5 months

3
4
0 0

ISO: Information on Fairchild/Schlumberger EXA 3000

by cclist＠sydex.com

Does anyone out there have information on the disk subsystem of the Fairchild/Schlumberger EXA 3000 tester? I think I've got it figured out, but some validation would come in useful. Thanks, Chuck

16 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

HP2631B printer

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

Rik Bos wrote: (concerning The Adventures of Fabulous Tony with the Dot Matrix Printer): > NICE work ! I'd also like to congratulate to that successful bug hunting and squishing operation and utter my appreciation for its thorough description but... I think that's possible to do without quoting that whole lot ;) So long, Arno -- GMX DSL: Internet, Telefon und Entertainment f?r nur 19,99 EUR/mtl.! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02

16 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

vintage equip F/S in CA

by shumaker＠att.net

A California Craigs List ad earlier this week caught my eye a couple days ago and some emailing with the seller resulted in the following: ************************************** Bear in mind that Gary was describing things and sometimes I don't get the jargo quite right. OK I have the info that you might like. We have a bunch of Kaypros as mentioned and they are all the same $60 except the 16 which is $125 Kaypro- 2 Kaypro2 - 6 Kaypro4 5 Kaypro10 1 Kaypro 16- in original box with everything Kaypro daisy wheel printer Kaypro pc Heathkit 89 A 2- one with dual floppy , Heath buss, Serial IO card, fan One with single floppy, and a CPU and memory main. We also have one H8 some missing memory chips and much documentation. We are asking $250 for H8 We have a printer buffer as well for that with the manuals, cords etc. Happy to include with it. I took some photos of the bunch of computers in the storage and will send some to you if you wish. However, I have a crummy photo editor and it requires a different email for each photo if I want to send them in a small size. Now, I am planning on listing the H8 in the next couple of weeks on ebay unless someone is serious enough to come up and buy it. We are closing our storage space in the next month or two and really want to see the big computers etc translated into money.. ***************************************************** They added more info today: ***************************************************** As for other stuff, it is a big list, I have over 100 assorted vintage computers (No, no Altairs and only one slightly munched IMSAI front panel). Partial list w/o S-100, Heath, Zenith, Kaypros or Osbornes: 3 each- TI99/4 2 each - TRS-80 Olivetti M15 Apple II Apple IIC Apple IIE Apple Monitor 3 each - Apple Mac (Cube) SE Apple Mac Wyse Video Terminal 2 each - Dual 8" floppy subsystems (Lobo and similar) NEC APC with built in color monitor and dual 8" floppies (seriously cool) NEC APC III with dual 5" floppies and separate color monitor. 2 each - Amiga 500 systems in box SWTPC 6800 Olivetti M-700-10 5 each - Compaq plasma lunch box ASR-33 teletype with paper tape and stand (very clean). Lots of old Monitors. ****************************************************** Units are being sold by a collector who has apprently been collecting since the 2nd West Coat Computer Fair and who is doing some house cleaning They have stated they will put them on Ebay soon but are willing to sell direct to interested collectors... Equipment is physically located in Ft Bragg, CA. contact info is "Barbara McCray" <bamccray at sonic.net> DISCLAIMER: FWIW, I know nothing of the seller or the equipment. She did mention that she sells on Ebay as "Dichroicarts". She is aware that I'm posting this info so if you're interested, go direct! steve

16 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

percom data separator

by keithvz＠verizon.net

I've read some passing threads about the percom data separator. Sounds pretty neat. Anyone have schematic, or know the chips involved -- or can tell me how this thing did its job? Thanks Keith

16 years, 5 months

4
5
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here's one i've never heard of

by brianlanning＠gmail.com

It's Z80 so it's just slightly before my time. But I thought you guys would be interested. It looks really clean. http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Computer-Ibex-Z80-64k-Console-Terminal-RARE-80_… brian

16 years, 5 months

3
2
0 0

Bootable Model III Disks...

by alhartman＠yahoo.com

Nope, not gonna take it back. In my circle of users in Brooklyn, EVERYBODY with a Model I had a doubler if they had disk drives. EVERYBODY. I'm sure there are people on this list who didn't. Because you guys can be pretty stubborn, ornery and non-standard. But anyone with a Model I who didn't get a doubler locked themselves out of lots of software, halved the storage capacity of their system, and had lots of trouble reading disks. I bought my system as a 16k Level I, and upgraded it to a 4 drive 48k Level II. Many people upgraded piecemeal. And a doubler was one of those "must have" upgrades. That was my experience. Having worked for Stony Clove Computer Center, Spectrum Projects, Zebra Systems, Colorware and Alpha Products. Al

16 years, 5 months

3
3
0 0

Cayman GatorBox CS firmware update issues

by thrashbarg＠kaput.homeunix.org

Hi, A friend of mine gave me a GatorBox CS recently. It works nicely, but the firmware version is 1.6.1. I tried to update it to 3.0.3 with the software at http://alfter.us/files/gatorbox/gatorbox-cs/ but when it goes to reboot into update mode it stops with the Ethernet LED on. The same thing happens when I try to do a software reset. A power cycle gets it unlocked but it's no longer in update mode. Any thoughts? Cheers, Alexis.

16 years, 5 months

3
3
0 0

Micro Cornucopia and Dave Thompson

by jack.rubin＠ameritech.net

Just a quick update to save a little nailbiting and head scratching - Dave Thompson is _not_ at the phone number/address listed under his name in Bend OR. His ex-wife answered the phone and was not particularly interested in providing information on Dave or his current whereabouts - "some where in the Valley, I think..." was her answer when asked. Maybe a Priority Mailing may do better but I don't think so. I've also contacted several former Micro C staff/contributors and basically the story seems to be that Dave pretty much walked away from the computer scene and doesn't particularly want to be "found" at this point. My plan is to scan the full run (I've finished 37-53 and am waiting for the earlier issues to arrive). I'll post them (either on my site or somewhere else) with the notation that they will be removed on request. This stuff is too cool to be left moldering in old boxes. Jack

16 years, 5 months

2
1
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Looking for MikroMikko 3 manuals ($$$)

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

Here's an obscure one. I need to find some manuals for the Nokia MikroMikko 3 computer from the mid-1980s. Perhaps someone from the Scandanavian countries might be able to assist? Specifically, I'm looking for the "RTX II Monitor Manual User's Guide" and the "RTX II File Management Reference Manual and User's Guide". Originals or PDFs will do at this point. I'm offering a negotiable bounty on this one. Let me know if you have any and what it would cost to get either the manual or a copy. Please contact me directly. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

16 years, 5 months

1
0
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Anybody in Gardena CA like free old macs?

by teoz＠neo.rr.com

http://68kmla.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12990&p=126641#p126641

16 years, 5 months

4
4
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Apple Lisa 1 for sale

by ukarmansalok＠gmail.com

Hi, Are you still selling this? Thankyou

16 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

would this work?

by brianlanning＠gmail.com

Forgive my lack of hardware knowledge... What if I took this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310201616232&rvr_id=&crl… Desoldered the female ISA connector, then soldered it to the underside of a passive backplane. Would I have goofy reliability problems? Would it even work? brian

16 years, 5 months

5
6
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Collection Reduction

by woodwp_98＠yahoo.com

Hello, We are located in the Raleigh, NC area and have a three car garage with a single room above it. We are planning on converting this to an apt for my son. The problem is it's full of stuff I've collected since the early 80's. The collection is heavily slanted towards early computers and electronics. These pictures are of a single room, just showing different views of the collection when it was spread out prior to storing it into stacks. eCollection ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/60147280 at N00/sets/72157622274120485/ ) My question is, does anyone know of someone local to the Raleigh area that could help us in the sale of this? Regards, WPW

16 years, 5 months

9
14
0 0

Honeywell CC690 uPAC

by adrian＠adrianwise.co.uk

I have a couple of uPAC modules from either a Honeywell DDP-516 or just possibly from a H316 machine. They're marked CC690. They're obviously some form of bus termination - just a series of clamp diodes to GND and some lines with pull-ups to +6V. The normal I/O bus termination on a DDP-516 is CC154, and I'm pretty sure that there is no termination uPAC needed on a 316. These were pulled from a machine in about 1984. I have some distant memory that they are an "upgraded" CC154 and can be used in place of a CC154. Can anyone confirm that - either from documentation or just from recollection? Adrian

16 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Bootable Model III disks...

by alhartman＠yahoo.com

C'mon guys... Nobody with a Model I and E/I with disk drives left it stock without a doubler of some kind... and... If you had the LNDoubler, you could do 8" and 5.25" (and now 3.5") single and double density disks all with the same board. I don't know of any board that only added 8" without adding a Doubler as well. I'm not saying there wasn't one... I just don't know about it. Percom, Tandy, LNW and Aerocomp made doublers. I think only the latter two supported 8" drives. Any Model I equipped with a doubler should be able to copy a Model III bootable diskette. Al Keansburg, NJ

16 years, 5 months

4
6
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Solderless breadboarding (and 68010 vs 68000)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 2/19/10, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> Yes, I have been using breadboards for more than 20 years and never >> had a problem with them. Sure, you must not try to stick thick wires > > I must have been unlucky. I tried several of them in my younger days > (Eurobreadboars, the CSC/GSC Protoboards, etc) and had no end of > problems. In the end I started just soldering upo the circuits on > stripboard, and my desigens started working first time. I've done both. I've personally never had mechanical stability problems with protoboards, but then I don't tend to wedge in 0.1" header pins into my boards. I insert ICs, 1/4W resistors, various capacitors, wires, crystals, LEDs and such, but rarely do I insert header pins. I've always felt that they were "too large", even though I know lots of people stuff them in there all the time. > [1] The local pound shop (a similar concept to dollar stores) was selling > a camping lamp with 24 white LEDs for a pound. I'd buy that for a pound! (and repurpose it, as you have). >> BTW, the article says it is an MC68008, so you did not need to count >> 24 pins (on one side) :-) > > Oh, I didn't . I noticed it was a 0.6" wide package. The 68000 and 68010 > DIL packages are 0.9" wide. Indeed. Quite distinctive. >> The 68010 is pin compatible to the 68000, but if you are in OS stuff, > > Indeed. There is also a PGA version of the 68010, which is used in some > HP machines IIRC there's a 68012 which had more addres mins bought out, > but otherwise had the same PGA pinout I have read about the 68012, but don't think I've seen one in the wild. >> you have to modify some software if you are handling stack frames. >> Those are not identical on the 68000 and 68010. > > IIRC, the 68010 pushes more onto the stack on an interrupt. It does. The difference isn't onerous - at least starting with AmigaDOS 1.2 if not 1.1 (not sure about 1.0), you could upgrade your 68000 to a 68010 for an approximate 5% effective speed "boost" - this was entirely due to the one-instruction DBcc "loop-mode cache" in random places in the OS and in applications. As long as your applications didn't try to execute any "MOVE from SR" instructions (http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/68010/), no changes were required. If you _did_ have some apps that did that, there a trap handler for that on, IIRC, an early Fish disk. It would catch the privilege exception, grab the status/condition code value and return the value to the trapping instruction. One app that was used to tell if you had the patch applied was the AmigaDOS 1.1 calculator. With AmigaDOS 1.2, the app made an OS call to get the required value. The older app used a "forbidden instruction" so it made a good test. If you are rolling your own OS or writing embedded code, it's not really that hard to determine what size of stack frame you'll have and handle both. I was responsible for replacing 68000s with 68010s in the final COMBOARD product (partially to take advantage of "loop mode" when dumping buffers across the DMA interface, increasing the block speed of the board with a $50 chip). I don't think the code changes relating to the 68010 took me more than part of an afternoon to implement. It's good to remember that it's so, but rather easy to accomplish once you are that deep in the code. -ethan

16 years, 5 months

24
81
0 0

HP 9825 tape drive

by rikbos＠xs4all.nl

I modified a HP 9825A tape drive for use with QIC 40/80 tapes. It's a rather easy conversion building a new capstand wheel witch is a little higher so it can drive the QIC tapes and increasing the write current by replacing a the current limiter resistor. It's under test and at the moment seems to work. I was curious if there others who did the same and what theire experiances are... -Rik

16 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

flowcharts and teaching programming

by bqt＠softjar.se

uss Bartlett <arcbe2001 at yahoo.com> wrote: > Don't forget that the DO loop in Fortan has not the same effect as an iteration as the Do condition is performed at the end.? The DO component is therefore performed at least once.? An iteration must be able to be performed zero times.?? This was why in JSP it wasn't used. It differs. What you describe is how it is in FORTRAN IV and older. It was changed in FORTRAN 77, so that a DO loop can run zero number of times as well. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

16 years, 5 months

2
1
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Identifying a classic board and find software for it ...

by gerhard.kreuzer＠liftoff.at

Hi, sombody donates a board to my collection, www.compuseum.at, maybe there is anybody outside helping me to identify this board. Its a PDP11 subsystem on an ISA board. Labels found: AT.S, PCCB ROI-931007. The PDP11 chip is one of this big nice ceramic carrier, holding two chips, numbers were: HD4-6900-5 DC334, produced 9338, and ...6901... repectively. As he told me, they used a standard OS2 box to run this 'machine'. He also will try to find something, but he isn't sure that there is anything left exept this nice board. As far as I know, it was part of a building management system, produced by Landis & Gyr and maybe used or co-developed by Siemens. Thanks for helping Gerhard

16 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Northstar Advantage ?

by rescue＠hawkmountain.net

All this talk of S100/Northstar/etc.... make me remember what I believe was a Northstar Advantage I used for a bit in college..... I remember it was laid out like a Radio Shack Model III system... all in one, monochrome screen with 2 floppy drives built in to the right, etc.... I've always wanted to find one of these.... but never have... I'm not sure my memory is even correct (is it the Northstar Advantage ?). Anyone have one in the MA/RI/NH area have one they don't want ? -- Curt

16 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

HP 9825 tape drive

by hp-fix＠xs4all.nl

I modified a HP 9825A tape drive for use with QIC 40/80 tapes. It's a rather easy conversion building a new capstand wheel witch is a little higher so it can drive the QIC tapes and increasing the write current by replacing a the current limiter resistor. It's under test and at the moment seems to work. I was curious if there others who did the same and what theire experiances are... -Rik

16 years, 6 months

3
3
0 0

Exidy Sorcerer II schematics?

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

Next up on my workbench is a Sorcerer II. I've googled about some and have found the original Sorcerer schematics. I've also found plenty of references to and pictures of the Sorcerer II board but no schematics. I got the machine from Europe so I suspect it may be hacked for 220V 50Hz. The power cord is cut off so I don't know for sure but there is definite evidence of hand soldering on the PS. Any help greatly appreciated, Bill

16 years, 6 months

3
6
0 0

Commodore 1520 Plotter

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I'm going through some stuff my Aunt brought me last month, she's apparently helping someone that was seriously into Commodore computers clean out. In the pile is a Commodore 1520 Plotter. I had one of these back in the 80's. Am I correct that there isn't any source of pens any more? Of course I haven't even had time to see if it works. The real treasure is all the books. There are dozen's of books on the VIC-20, C-64, and electronics (lots of Radio Shack books from the 70's and 80's, and other books). There are at least the first two Compute Guide to the VIC-20 and the first 3 for the C-64! :-) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

16 years, 6 months

11
18
0 0

Sanyo CP/M machine and Macintosh IIfx

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

I have a friend who has a Sanyo MBC-1000 and a Macintosh IIfx with both a two page monochrome monitor (nicknamed the "Kong") and a 13" color monitor that he'd like to pass on to someone who will appreciate them. The catch is that they are in the San Francisco Bay Area and would need to be picked up within the next few days. I am in the area right now and could help with the pickup but I am leaving the Bay Area on Friday. If anyone is interested in one or both of these machines, please contact me off list. His description of the Sanyo is: "Sanyo MBC-1000. I've got manuals and software, including Aztec-C and BIOS source. The computer itself is very solid and was in perfect working condition when I last used it." If I don't find someone to pick up these machines in the next few days they will likely go to a recycler.

16 years, 6 months

4
4
0 0

Sanyo CP/M machine and Macintosh IIfx

by bbuckels＠mts.net

Hello There, I am interested in the Aztec C disks and manuals. I am able to pay shipping costs through paypal. I am in Canada. I am also interested in old computers but unfortunately the shipping costs to Canada make that impractical. Regards, Bill Buckels Box 277 177 - 6th Street South Beach Gimli, MB, Canada R0C 1B0 Home - (204) 642-8405 Cell - (204) 612-4162 Please see my links below: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bill_Buckels http://www.cpm8680.com/ http://www.appleoldies.ca/ http://www.c64classics.ca/ http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/ x--- snip ---x Sanyo CP/M machine and Macintosh IIfx David Betz dbetz at xlisper.com Sun Feb 28 22:47:58 CST 2010 I have a friend who has a Sanyo MBC-1000 and a Macintosh IIfx with both a two page monochrome monitor (nicknamed the "Kong") and a 13" color monitor that he'd like to pass on to someone who will appreciate them. The catch is that they are in the San Francisco Bay Area and would need to be picked up within the next few days. I am in the area right now and could help with the pickup but I am leaving the Bay Area on Friday. If anyone is interested in one or both of these machines, please contact me off list. His description of the Sanyo is: "Sanyo MBC-1000. I've got manuals and software, including Aztec-C and BIOS source. The computer itself is very solid and was in perfect working condition when I last used it." If I don't find someone to pick up these machines in the next few days they will likely go to a recycler.

16 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Free: 8-inch drives, S-100 expansion in OC, CA

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

For your eyes only: http://popbottlecaps.com/temp/S-100.jpg http://popbottlecaps.com/temp/drives.jpg -- Two different 8-inch floppy drives, physically in great condition, operational status unknown. -- An S-100 expansion chassis Included at no additional charge: -- VersaFloppy S-100 card w/ manual -- ExpandoRAM S-100 card (0K installed) w/ manual Free for Pick-up preferred! Located in Aliso Viejo, CA 92656

16 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Sanyo CP/M machine and Macintosh IIfx

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

These machines have been claimed. Thanks for all the interest! ------Original Message------ From: David Betz Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ReplyTo: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Sanyo CP/M machine and Macintosh IIfx Sent: Feb 28, 2010 11:47 PM I have a friend who has a Sanyo MBC-1000 and a Macintosh IIfx with both a two page monochrome monitor (nicknamed the "Kong") and a 13" color monitor that he'd like to pass on to someone who will appreciate them. The catch is that they are in the San Francisco Bay Area and would need to be picked up within the next few days. I am in the area right now and could help with the pickup but I am leaving the Bay Area on Friday. If anyone is interested in one or both of these machines, please contact me off list. His description of the Sanyo is: "Sanyo MBC-1000. I've got manuals and software, including Aztec-C and BIOS source. The computer itself is very solid and was in perfect working condition when I last used it." If I don't find someone to pick up these machines in the next few days they will likely go to a recycler. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

16 years, 6 months

3
3
0 0

Museums

by js＠cimmeri.com

Rob Jarrat wrote: > If there were no interest in things that pre-dated our own lifetimes then > there would not be any museums. Of course, but that wasn't my point. My point is that I observe there to be, in general, LESS interest in collecting items that predate our own existence. For example, I know many more people who own classic cars like Mustangs simply because they always wanted one while growing up, or maybe had one... than those collectors who own Ford Model Ts. You could make the argument that Mustangs are more readily available, but that wouldn't be true. It's just that few if any those Mustang owners have any interest in Model T's for any number of valid reasons. So, I'm drawing a distinction between personal nostalgia and emotional response, vs. collecting purely for historical enjoyment or purposes. Rob Jarrat wrote: > The peculiar problem faced by computer > history is perhaps the frenetic pace of computer development, which has > meant that historically interesting computers are not generally recognised > as such because they are still relatively recent and become obsolete so > quickly that they are discarded far too readily. Excellent point. Which leads to wonder if only the early computers -- when development moved slower and there were far fewer models in existence -- will remain the collectible ones. I don't see any computers in most of the 90's, and none at all from 2000 onwards that I'd ever want to collect. Wonder how others feel? Will a Dell PC ever be collectible? Are Apples the only ones that might stand a chance? Are all computers now merely appliances with zero personality? John Singleton

16 years, 6 months

30
83
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VAX graphics

by bqt＠softjar.se

Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote: > On 2/25/10 12:56 PM, Richard wrote: > >> > Bottom line for me is that this looks like a 3rd party memory-mapped >> > framebuffer > > I'm not convinced. There was no sign of it in the machine room. There is nothing visible in the machine room for a graphic subsystem. It's all in the Unibus box, with just a couple of cables coming out. > I still think it is a raster terminal. The repaint speed is consistent > with that. I'd definitely say no to that. I was working at DEC in 1986. At that time, the VT241 was the hottest thing DEC had, and it could do bitmapped graphics. But let me tell you how long it took to just get a picture uploaded on that terminal, and then we are talking much lower resolution, and fewer bitplanes. Admittedly, the DEC sixel graphics format wasn't the most efficient, but you at least transferred 6 bits of graphic data for each byte, giving it a 75% efficiency. You would have had to wait almost forever to get a picture like in the video over a serial line at 9600 bps, or even 19200. And once again, no faster serial interfaces were available on a Unibus machine. (Nor did any terminals appear to go that much faster either.) Just make a small calculation. Let's assume a resolution of 640x480, with just 8 bits per pixel. That would mean approximately 300Kbyte of data to transfer. At 19200 bps, that would take 160 seconds to draw one picture. (Assuming all bits were actual data, and no overhead.) Almost 3 minutes... This is easy math, if people just try it. :-) And I dare say, that picture have higher resolution, and more depth than my simple calculation above used. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

16 years, 6 months

5
5
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UV-Proof/resistant Eprom labels.

by geoffr＠zipcon.net

Anyone know of a source for these? I had been using diskette write protect labels but the only ones I have left no longer want to stick well :(

16 years, 6 months

4
3
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Bootable Model III disks...

by alhartman＠yahoo.com

I checked with a friend whose memory is better than mine. A TRS-80 Model I can duplicate bootable Model III diskettes. The Model III disk controller cannot produce all the address marks the WDC 1771 can, so a Model III cannot duplicate a Model I diskette if the OS or bootcode is dependent on having those address marks present. So, anyone with a Model I who has good copies of Model III OS disks should be able to help the poster. I'd make several copies of each just to control for the age of the media and different drive alignment. Do one drive 0 to 1 and the other drive 1 to 0. My system isn't setup yet, else I'd volunteer. Hopefully, I'll have it setup in a couple of weeks. Al

16 years, 6 months

3
2
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SDS Sigma 7 sighting

by james＠jfc.org.uk

I just watched Season 1, Episode 3 of the Monkees where they have several shots of an SDS Sigma 7. This was in 1966, so it can't have been long after the release of the Sigma 7. I'd not seen it mentioned here before and I thought some might be interested... http://www.starringthecomputer.com/feature.php?f=333 -- James F. Carter www.jfc.org.uk www.podquiz.com www.starringthecomputer.com

16 years, 6 months

1
0
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VAX graphics

by bqt＠softjar.se

"e.stiebler" <emu at e-bbes.com> wrote: > Johnny Billquist wrote: >> And I dare say, that picture have higher resolution, and more depth than >> my simple calculation above used. > > No, it should be just 512x512x8. Don't forget that you are watching > youtube in a lousy resolution. You are right. She even says in the beginning that it's 250,000 pixels. Assuming they take a little liberties to simplify things, that would mean 512x512. Looking at the first perspective city picture, you can see that he has a palette of 256 shades to blue to pick from (ranging from black to white). It might be that the graphic system have a color palette then, since obviously, there are other colors than blue possible, but none others are shown there. Or else they have a 24 bit pixel depth, which would be very impressive. But any way you look at it, my comment still stands. With a serial line running at 19200 bps, it would take about two and a half minute to draw a picture, at the best of time. I dare say we can safely assume it's not a serially connected terminal (even ignoring that I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a serial terminal with bitmap graphics with a resolution close to this). Looking more at the video. There are no visible clues at all that I can see as to who actually manufactured the graphics system. The system definitely are running some kind of Unix, though. Anyone who recognize the tablet? It is after all in focus quite a lot. > And we used a grinell system 1981 already (pdp11) which had 512x256 (not > sure it was 512x512). 8 bit is sufficient to show what he is doing on it. Never heard of grinell. But I have a VSV21 here. 640x480 pixel resolution. Unfortunately only 4 bitplanes. But it's a very fun graphic system for the PDP11 anyway... And later than 1981, but made by DEC. Oh, and that's for the Q-bus... Unibus graphic systems are rarer... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

16 years, 6 months

8
8
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Barden programming books (was: Re: TRS-80 bootable media request)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 2/26/10, Mark Tapley <mtapley at swri.edu> wrote: > At 17:20 -0600 2/25/10, Mike L. wrote: >>"More TRS-80 Assembly Language Programming", by Bill Barden > > A comment and a question: I found on eBay the CoCo Assembly > book by the same author. It's clear, an enjoyable read, and does a > good job of introducing programming, the debugger/assembler > implemented on the cartridge, and 6809 assembly language in a simple, > easy-to-understand progression. I may have to keep my eyes out for that one. I'm much less informed about the 6809 than any of the other contemporary processors. > However, it seems to me to give really short shrift to what > the 6809 designers considered to be very important features of the > processor. Position independent code is barely touched on, there are > a lot of what looks to me like kludgy programming techniques, the > most advanced software-management tool discussed is a flowchart (and > then there's no useful example of how to use them), the multiple > pointer registers are abused as 16-bit counters rather than as > indexing pointers, and there are many similar examples. Hmm... I haven't read anything by Barden, so I'm merely commenting on your comments, but I do remember that back in the day, besides a "better" register scheme, the one thing that really made the 6809 stand out (from my 6502 world) was its ability to render position-independent code. I didn't need it often when I was programming the 6502 daily, but occasionally, I did wish for it. Perhaps the lack of attention to that in the book is due to a lack of perceived utility for it? When the 6502 and Z80 and 6809 ruled the earth (or at least the hobbyist corner of it), multitasking operating systems weren't the norm. I know OS/9 stands out, but until you jump up to early UNIX super-micros, there's not much else in the field that was commonly available (the PDP-8 had RTS-8, but compared to a basic OS/8 setup, RTS/8 was strange and rare). The vast majority of micros had "operating systems" (by a very wide definition) with fixed-position memory maps. There was little need to be able to shuffle your code from one spot in memory to another. Even on larger systems, like the PDP-11, MMU hardware did that sort of mapping for you (despite the fact that PIC is easy to write for the -11). As for the lack of "advanced software-management tool[s]", most of the books that I've read from the late 1970s and early 1980s fall into that category. I don't think I learned anything "better" than flowcharts and coding sheets until I hit the minicomputer world in the mid-1980s (it sure wasn't any different when I took my first programming course in college in 1984 - flowcharts were a mandatory part of the homework and were graded quite rigorously). > Does anybody else have the same take on this? I was thinking > about using it to teach programming to one or more of the kids, but > it seems to me that I'd rather find something a bit more > structure-oriented, and less likely to use "tricks". By the late 1980s, I remember a change in the weather with articles in Amiga-centric magazines on programming the 68000. See if you can find Transactor magazines (or PDFs of them). Those might be "modern" enough in their approach to feel more friendly. The instruction set's not the same, but code organization and concepts are analogous. > Am I just spoiled from having read the 6809 programmer's > guide and the (somewhat snooty-sounding) Byte article on 6809 design > and introduction? Perhaps. With 1970s docs, my feeling of remembering those days is that 8080 and Z80 tutorials and guides were "stiffer" than 6502-related material, but I'll easily admit those memories are somewhat biased because I spent lots more time seeking out and reading 6502 publications in depth. The 6809 stuff, though, kinda went by unexplored by me since I had no hardware to tie to it. -ethan

16 years, 6 months

7
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flowcharts and teaching programming/was Re: Barden programming books

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

I began programming IBM, CDC and Amdahl machines in June 1970. All assignments at the Computer Institute of Canada were graded according to the accuracy of the flowchart and the initial box as Chuck states. COBOL and other languages employed at that time employed gotos; it was a sign of sloppy programming according to purists and professors/instructors but gotos usually solved complex junction problems in an elegant fashion. BASIC and 'Small-C' used them to the same effect in the microcomputer world of late 70s. Early programming books are getting scarce yet magazines of that era had programming projects and got many of us interested in advanced programming versus machine-language programming; it beat flipping switches and assembler programming of early to mid-70s machines! Murray--

16 years, 6 months

3
4
0 0

Problem getting non-blocking sockets going on BSD 2.11

by toby＠coreware.co.uk

I'm in the midst of writing a MUD for PDP-11s running under BSD 2.11 and have run into a problem getting non-blocking I/O working. I initially wrote a simple test program to setup a non-blocking socket and accept connections then echo back anything typed to all connected sessions. This worked fine. However now I've placed the exact same code into my MUD development, the sockets are blocking. I've got the following in my setup of the socket: /* Set socket to non-blocking */ if( ioctl(s,FIONBIO) == -1 ) { printf("Error ocurred"); } which I believe should make the socket non-block and when I run up the code it doesn't throw a failure on the ioctl, however the socket definitely remains in blocking mode. Anyone have any ideas? I've been scratching my head on this one for days now I've put all the source I've written thus far here: http://www.pdp11.co.uk/wp-content/retromud/ Sorry if the code is a bit cludgy, but I've not programmed C for about 15 years and its only just coming back to me! The file comms.c is where most of the socket actions occurs. All the best, Toby

16 years, 6 months

2
2
0 0

DEChamonicas

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

I have a bunch of DEC H3104 Harmonicas - the little boxes that fan a Dshell connector out to 8 MMJs. Is there any interest in these, or should I just throw them in the scrap board pile? I have some of the mounting plates for these as well. -- Will

16 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

Museums

by hachti＠hachti.de

> I am not so sure that it is necessarily the case that people lose interest > in things that pre-date their own lifetime. I try to collect only stuff that's older than me - so end 1978 is my limit :-) There are some newer things like 11/23 or late additions to older machines. But all in all I like the fact playing with gear from the time before me. But I can understand the concerns. I also assume that the prices for the good scrap won't rise... Kind regards, Philipp

16 years, 6 months

1
0
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OT: Old SAC film

by cclist＠sydex.com

Since "Wargames" wa mentioned, I thought I'd post this link to an old PR film from the Strategic Air Command. Only a brief shot of computing gear on reel 1, but lots of teleprinters, teletypes and comm consoles. About 18 minutes long. The first two of three reels are of high quality; for some reason, the third one is not. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nukevault/ebb304/film03.htm Cheers, Chuck

16 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

Lusent SCSI things

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

More weird crap. I have a couple of modules - Lucent 990C01407410 (I think) - that are doing me no good, and will end up as scrap soon. They seem to be Differential In to Single Ended Out converters. They are dated 1997. Any ideas as to what machine used these? 3B series add-on? Anyone need them CHEAP? -- Will

16 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

DOS versions compared

by lproven＠gmail.com

I've just been setting up a couple of old PCs to go off to the ComputerAid charity. These are junkers: 1 ? Athlon XP 1800+, 640MB RAM, 1 ? Athlon XP 1700+, 768MB RAM; I've fitted both with 20GB hard disks, a DVD-ROM and a CDRW. Remarkably, this level of kit is what some term "skipware" now - just about the lowest spec that the charity will take. I tried both Linux Mint & TinyXP on them, but both hit snags, and I don't want to spend hours troubleshooting, so I downloaded FreeDOS 1.0 and bunged that on. Remarkably, FreeDOS now comes on CD - there is 150MB of it! The install is pretty fiddly, although it all works. On one of them it even autodetects a PCI Ethernet card & goes online. And to my amazement, I discovered that I'm credited in the README file for the bundled OpenGEM GUI. I am a bit torn over FreeDOS, though. I used to be a big fan of DR-DOS, back in the day, although in the end I saw & deployed far more MS-DOS boxes. :?( But FreeDOS seems to have surpassed both the standalone editions of MS-DOS (which ended at MS-DOS 6.22, although PC-DOS 2000 advanced on that in a few areas). FreeDOS boasts large (20GB) partition/filesystem support, FAT32, Win9x-style Long File Names, native networking, TCP/IP, CD-ROM & writer support, comes with dev tools, web browsers, email, games, all sorts. It's a hell of a DOS system! I was wondering if anyone here had used it in anger at all? How does it hold up compared to MS-DOS, the embedded DOS in Win9x, IBM PC DOS, DR-DOS in its commercial or FOSS incarnations...? -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508

16 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Classilla 9.1 released

by spectre＠floodgap.com

It's still technically off-topic (2002 is only 8 years ago), but for Mac OS 8.6 and 9 users, I released Classilla 9.1 tonight, the most current version of the Mozilla-based web browser I maintain for the classic Mac OS. It's still a work in progress, but I eat my own dogfood, and this tastes good enough to put in the can. (And belabour the metaphor.) http://www.classilla.org/ -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- There are few problems that the liberal usage of high explosives can't cure.

16 years, 6 months

3
4
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joysticks for dos games

by brianlanning＠gmail.com

I need to do a bit more research on this. But can someone suggest a good joystick for older PCs with db15 connectors? Most of them seem to be cheesy flight sticks. I've seen playstation style controllers with usb connectors on them. Something like this would be ideal if it had a db15 connector. Any suggestions? brian

16 years, 6 months

7
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DEC Graphics, was : VAX graphics

by emu＠e-bbes.com

Hi all, the discussion triggered it again : Did really no documentation of the grinell systems survive ? Cheers

16 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Labtam 32032

by alec＠sensi.org

Hi! Does anyone have information about Labtam 32032 system ? We've found one in the military depot: http://www.phantom.sannata.ru/forum/index.php?t=6175 (cyrillic, use Google Translator) Seems, this machines was rather popular in the USSR (behind the iron curtain) - it was possible to avoid COCOM since Labtam was an Australian company. It used NSC 32K processol and Unix V2.0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Semiconductor_32016 -- -=AV=-

16 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

cctech Digest, Vol 78, Issue 37

by jonas＠otter.se

> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:25:43 +0000 (GMT) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: OT: white LEDs > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <m1NkXAQ-000J3xC at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > You can actually buy ringlights made in that manner, and they work > > pretty well. There are usually some cheap ones on a famous "auction" > > It is my experience that just about anything intended for photograp[hic > use is way overpriced :-=). OK, I can't grind lenses, so I am happy to > pay for good ones, but I am not going to pay high prices for things I > can > make in an afternoon or so. Quite apart from the fact that making the > device and experiemnting with it is more fun to me than taking > photographs... > LED ringlight: http://www.fotosidan.se/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39550&highlight=Mak ro+blixt In Swedish, but I expect Google or ImTranslator or something will make a more or less intelligible mess of translating it. /Jonas

16 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Exxon Qyx Typewriter thingy

by BMcElroy＠dmai.com

My Dad worked on these (mechanical designer designing jigs and fixtures for assembly) at QYX in Lionville, PA in the late 70's There claim to fame was that you could type a letter and then have another one type the same thing over the phone lines as an original document....all pre facsimile machine. It is said that the technology was stolen to help create the fax machine. They did have a FBI Investigation for items stolen from trash bins. Brian McElroy Project Manager DAVID MILLER/ASSOCIATES, INC. 1076 Centerville Road, Lancaster, PA 17601 Phone (717) 898-3402 ext. 41 or Toll Free (877) 516-3740 Fax: (717) 898-9365 Visit our website at www.dmai.com<http://www.dmai.com/> CONFIDENTIAL MATERIAL: This message is intended only for the use of recipient to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If received in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original transmission and any attachments. Thank You.

16 years, 6 months

8
9
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TRS-80 bootable media request

by jplist2008＠kiwigeek.com

Greetings; I have a friend with an TRS80 Model III would is looking for some bootable media w/TRSDOS and, possibly if available, CP/M. I'm not familiar with the TRS80 line, and I don't own any, so I'm not in a position to help. If anyone has such a machine and can create up some disks for a nominal charge I would be very appreciative, replies probably should be off-list. Many thanks. - JP

16 years, 6 months

7
15
0 0

Semi-OT: vintage videogames made into films

by evan＠snarc.net

http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/plugged-in/missile-command-movie-incomin… "Missile Command" may become a feature film.

16 years, 6 months

9
11
0 0

TRS-80 bootable media request

by alhartman＠yahoo.com

Isn't MultiDos either still being sold or available for free? When I was using my TRS-80 systems full time, it was my preferred OS. I lost my Newdos/80 Manual and discs, though I have copies. I'd be willing to help out with this request because I have all the major Model I & III os discs. But, my computer is an LNW-80 Model I and I'm not sure how well it would work to make bootable Model III discs. I used to know, but that was 20 years ago. I just moved, and as soon as my new computer room is setup, a project is to test and image all my old discs from all my various systems. If anyone in the Mid Jersey shore area has a working Model III or IV they are willing to give away, trade or sell (at a price a disabled guy can afford), I would be glad to use it to help in this instance. It makes me sorry I sold my 4p on eBay a few years ago. Al

16 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

TRS-80 bootable media request

by klake＠chartermi.net

Just about anything TRS-80 related can be had or learned via these sites! I hope this helps. I've still got a half-dz Mod 4/4D's, about that many Mod III's, a couple Mod 4P's, and a few Mod I's (not to mention Mod II's, Mod 12's, Mod 16's, and probably at least one of each variation of the 26-variations of the Tandy 1000, a Tandy 1200, and a Tandy 3000). http://cn80.blogspot.com/ http://www.tim-mann.org/misosys.html http://manmrk.net/tutorials/TRS80/trs80links.html I used to be very active in the community, but with business demanding more and more of my attention, I fell away from it so much so that I wasn't even aware (though unsurprised) that Stan Slater had passed last August, and with him his CN80 News and his CN80 store on ebay. RIP Stan! >Greetings; > >I have a friend with an TRS80 Model III would is looking for some bootable >media w/TRSDOS and, possibly if available, CP/M. I'm not familiar with the >TRS80 line, and I don't own any, so I'm not in a position to help. > >If anyone has such a machine and can create up some disks for a nominal >charge I would be very appreciative, replies probably should be off-list. > >Many thanks. > > - JP Kim J. Lake

16 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Y2K retrospective / was Re: Algol vs ...

by arcbe2001＠yahoo.com

I get back to my point that a lot of the comments and criticisms concerning the absence of the century in system design comes? from people ill equipped? and knowledgeable to be able to pass judgment.? By 1985 I had been working in Data Processing for 20 years!? Hardware constraints dictated what we did and didn't do.? The hardware constraints were our main obstacle and? were twofold: 1) Cost - Memory was incredibly expensive (Read The mythical man month) 2) Hardware Technology - Early systems were mag tape only.? The bottom line to this is that there is always a price point.? Added to which, and factored in, is the life expectancy of any system.? Back then it was considered around 10-15 years plus.? A lot of systems had no upward compatability and applications needed to be modified to run. In the mid 60's only large companies had systems with greater than 16K memory and disc drives.? Mag tape 800 and 1600 bpi if you were lucky was the norm.? Systems running a single job stream were common place. ?? Now the more sophisticated systems - of which the British ICT (ICL) was one - used an offset to hold dates.? The ICL 1900 range? used a technique of holding the number of days since the Jan 1st 1900.? Richard Pick later used a similar off-set technique in his Pick O/S (Dec 31, 1967).? We used assembler language because we had to.? Generally they were considered a necessary evil although I loved using it. 3rd generation language compilers weren't that mature and generated a lot of machine code instructions making them a memory hog and slow to execute. ?? While the main pack (IBM lead) pursued architecture that used Assembler, Burroughs took a different, and far better approach as their systems used Algol. In the early days when we wrote programs they were written onto coding forms.? Once punched onto 80 column cards we would check each card to ensure that had been key punched correctly.? Checking an 8000 statement? program took time.? Once checked we would have it listed (used little machine time).? We would then dry run through the program looking for logic errors.? Having done that we would have it compiled.? Typically there would be a couple of development slots or so a week for testing so we had ensure that we had done due diligence.? If it compiled we would schedule a test slot and run against test data.? Debugging consisted of analyzing dumps and correcting the code.? Contrast this against interactive source debuggers.? Today machine time is inexpensive and many compiles and test shots may be performed in a day.? "Workbench" tools allow the programmer to run their program without even hitting the mainframe.? A totally different world.? There was no padding of EDP (Electronic Data Processing) budgets - they didn't exist, there was not an EDP cost center in the G/L.? EDP was a huge investment for any company.? We didn't have an EDP Manager in the true sense of the term as we reported to the head of finance - The chief accountant.? It was later that we split off and became a separate entity with our own budget. --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote: From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> Subject: Y2K retrospective / was Re: Algol vs ... To: General at invalid.domain, "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 1:25 AM William Donzelli wrote: > > > 11 years ago, I pointed this very fact out to "journalists" who were > > convinced that Y2K was all a scam to pad IT budgets because "nobody > > would have gone to that much trouble to save 4 bits (00-99 fits in 7 > > bits, 2000 fits in 11 bits) even in the 1950s. > > While it was not a scam, it certainly was used to pad IT budgets. I would argue the public aspect of the issue was a scam. The people who needed to know, knew already. The public hype around the issue was overblown and unnecessary. Remember the various experts and consultants railing about how microwave ovens and cars and anything with a microprocessor in it (things that didn't even know about the date) were going to fail? I still have the bulletin from the government mailed out to every household in Canada to prepare everyone for Y2K: a fine example of public folly.

16 years, 6 months

25
51
0 0

Barden programming books (was: Re: TRS-80 bootable media request)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 17:20 -0600 2/25/10, Mike L. wrote: >"More TRS-80 Assembly Language Programming", by Bill Barden A comment and a question: I found on eBay the CoCo Assembly book by the same author. It's clear, an enjoyable read, and does a good job of introducing programming, the debugger/assembler implemented on the cartridge, and 6809 assembly language in a simple, easy-to-understand progression. However, it seems to me to give really short shrift to what the 6809 designers considered to be very important features of the processor. Position independent code is barely touched on, there are a lot of what looks to me like kludgy programming techniques, the most advanced software-management tool discussed is a flowchart (and then there's no useful example of how to use them), the multiple pointer registers are abused as 16-bit counters rather than as indexing pointers, and there are many similar examples. Does anybody else have the same take on this? I was thinking about using it to teach programming to one or more of the kids, but it seems to me that I'd rather find something a bit more structure-oriented, and less likely to use "tricks". Am I just spoiled from having read the 6809 programmer's guide and the (somewhat snooty-sounding) Byte article on 6809 design and introduction? -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

16 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Windows 1.0, Windows 2.0, Windows 3.0

by legalize＠xmission.com

Does anyone have these releases of Windows prior to Windows 3.1? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

16 years, 6 months

7
9
0 0

toner cartridge vendor

by brianlanning＠gmail.com

It looks like the toner cartridge is the source of the problems with my HP 4100. Somewhere between the $20 charged on ebay for crappy chinese cartridges and the extortionate prices charged for new ones by HP is a sane price/performance area. Can someone suggest a good vendor that charges good prices for toner cartridges that aren't junk? Thanks. brian

16 years, 6 months

3
3
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