test-drb April 1997

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

60 participants
150 discussions

by groberts＠mitre.org

fyi, on p. 272 of November '79 Byte: a company called AB Computers offered a device called "BETSI", described as a "PET to S-100 Interface & Motherboard". cost was $119. While i'm on that page, the PET was $795 for the entry level system (8K, small keybd, cassette) and on the high end: $1,295 for 32K system with "business" keyboard. A 2040 dual diskette drive (343,000 bytes total) would set you back another $1,295. At 05:23 AM 4/29/97 -0400, you wrote: > >I'd just like to make an update for all who may be interested in that >potential PET to S100 bus device that I had sitting in storage. > >I pulled it out tonight instead of studying for exams, and it is indeed >what was suspected. > >The "motherboard" (if that is the correct term) is a Vector Graphic Inc. >S100 bus board. The RAM board that was being used for the PET, is a >Vector Graphic Inc. 16K Static RAM board with a date of 1977 on it. The >power supply says "KIMSI-PLUS Power Supply" on the back, 1977 from >Forethought Products. > >This is all very wild, because I had no idea there was S100 stuff in this >house. > >Anyway, the really interesting piece of circuitry is the PET to S100 >interface board. It's the same size as the RAM board, and of course plugs >into the S100 bus. At the top of the board is a 50-pin connector that >plugs into a cable, that in turn plugs into the side memory expansion >connector on the PET 2001. > >In white lettering, it says >.----------. >|_| | | |_|| >| | |_| | || (<-- my cheezy attempt at duplicating the company >.----------' logo with ASCII, it's HUH surrounded by a question >.ELECTRONICS mark.) > > S100 MPA > >and etched into the board it says "COPYRIGHT 1978 BY HUH" and "S100 MPA >REV A". > >The board isn't very heavily populated, compared to the RAM board, and >most of the chips are 74LSxx chips. > >Anyone out there know more than I do about this thing? > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca > > >

26 years, 11 months

TI 99 & a good weekend

by BigLouS＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-04-29 00:50:04 EDT, Charles P. Hobbs writes: << As for the TI without any chrome at all . . .did it look painted, or . . . >> I didn't take a really close look but it didn't appear to be painted. It also seemed to have a circle on the case above the keyboard. Lou

26 years, 11 months

Replies to stuff...

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: hellige <jeffh(a)eleventh.com> To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Atari prob, etc. > One thing about Atari 8bit stuff is a lot of it tended to use it's own > power rating on the power supply, and not really interchangeable > between most of it, it seems. I'll check the ratings on the 1200 xl in the FAQ maybe that was the problem... :/ --------- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> Subject: yo >First Annual Classic Computer Collector Conference >Why? BECAUSE! Does any hacker need a reason (well maybe the tried and true, "Because they say it's impossible.") > Next question... > Where? > Livermore, California (tentative...actual venue TBD) I could handle that. Hey that's were alot of the companies started. > When? > Late Summer 1997 (possibly August) > Who? > Organizer: Sam Ismail > Sponsors: Pending (targeted sponsors will be > Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories and > other computer manufacturers in the local area > and Silicon Valley). Apple could use a little more good P.R... (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) > What? > The Classic Computer Collector Convention is > slated to be the premier computer faire to > attend to meet with fellow classic computer > collector geeks, buy/sell/trade classic computer > stuff, exchange classic computer software and > classic computer hints and tips, attend > workshops on classic computer preservation and > restoration, and of course see classic > computers. > Some show features: > Classic Computer Spotlight - every year a > legendary system is chosen to be heralded as the > classic computer of the year (nominees for the > first show are Altair 8800; Apple ][; Commodore > PET; ???). Hey how about a demo contest too? Have you ever seen those european groups' parties, (search the web there are some good pages about them) looks pretty cool to me. Kinda like a hackerfest. > Classic Computer Pioneer - every year an > individual from the annals of computer lore will > be chosen as the Classic Computer Pioneer of the > year. This would be someone who had a lasting > legacy or made a historical impact on the > computer industry, but is not necessarily active > anymore (ie. this precludes Bill Gates from > qualifying). Nominees: Gary Kildall, creator of > CP/M; Steve Wozniak; ??? As I said Apple could use the P.R. (maybe get the Steves...) Unfortunately Gary Kildall (creator of CP/M) died a couple years back (but would be a kick to honor him), Chuck Peddle was the creator of the 6502 microprocessor and Commodore PET among other things. > Classic Computer Museum - A classic museum will > be set-up on-site to allow interested public to > see what classic computers are all about. > Attendees will be encouraged to submit their > favorite classics for display during the show. Better have tight security there if we bring our 'babies' to sow off. > The success of the show will depend on > attendance. Admission will be enough to cover > the costs of running the show (including lease > of the venue, advertising, etc). Although there > won't be much of a vending atmosphere (unless > people want to haul their stuff from all over > the country) space will be sold for such > purposes. That sounds reasonable. > More details as I come up with them. I would > really appreciate feedback from the patrons of > this discussion group. Any ideas, comments, > suggestions are welcome (please suggest a better > name!) The only computer show I attended was the World of Commodore in San Francisco in 1987, since then most of the shows have been feeding frenzies for developers and not at all interested in the computer classics. I would attend and I'm sure I could get others in the area interested. ---------- From: Doug Spence <ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca> Subject: Re: Old Computer Books (was Re: Pets & Silly Game) > ...But the only PET books this library has are things like > collections of type-in programs for the PET, and books on using the PET in > an educational environment. Nothing good and technical. The technical ones are some of the hardest to locate, some of mine came from a Commodore Group weeding out their library, I bought them via mail. The most PET books I've come across are old college and school textbooks (anyone see "Hands-On BASIC with the Commodore PET?" yuk.) --- Subject: BBSes on old hardware and SuperVIC > (re: VIC-20) I'd put at least 32K in it, with a memory > protection toggle on the RAM so that it could run images of cartridges > from disk. There is a file I think on funet.fi's FTP that describes and internal mod that does just that. :) --- Subject: PETs etc. > If only I could find such things. I suspect that if I took a trip to > Toronto I'd have much better luck in all of my searches for old computer > hardware, software, and books, but the chances of finding PET stuff in > particular would go up a hundred fold. (What with TPUG, the Toronto PET > Users Group, etc.) True, that was a very good Commodore region. > I have a feeling that computer ownership wasn't nearly as common in > Montreal in the early days as it was in most other major North American > cities... I would believe that, I think it depnds on what stores, groups were in the area as well as what computers were first brought in. (Keeping up with the Jones') > (re-piggybacking chips) > Uh... was he looking for data redundancy or something? ;) No he had some dead RAMS and got tired of swapping chips, and figured if he piggybacked two he would at least get one good one out of it. :/ > I intend to write the software on my own, but fast serial routines might > come in handy. I want to at least get 2400bps out of the thing. Most of the BASIC boards I have is up to 1200 baud, I know for 2400 you probably have to tweak the timing registers, cause the computer does not provide decent numbers. > I don't think that'll be a problem for the VIC-20, as it's faster at I/O than the > 64. I'll probably have to put in a lot of RAM, though, to act as buffers > for the slow disk drives. :) There have been a bunch of articles for adding 256k to 1 meg internally to the 64 and bank-switching, not sure if that's possible on the VIC though, they may be adaptable. > Do you mean the music teacher's programs, or the Cursor tapes? :) YES! YES! > I think I have copies of tapes #1 to #8, plus a couple of games from later tapes. > I wish I had the originals... but these were copies made from the high > school music teacher's subscription. :) Mine are also from High School and I can say I have programs from 13 to into the 20s I think. No originals here either *sniff* > Ouranos! is an awesome game, BTW. I had the PET print up the listing and I > intended to port it to the Amiga, but I never got around to it. I don't > think it'd be the same, though, on anything but another PET with glaring > white screen. Weather War II for the Commodore-64 is a re-write of Ouranos! nifty little character graphic castles, SID sound, sprites were used to add some foliage (just for looks) > What's the serial number on that machine? Gotta go to storage and read it... Not in the 'original documentation' envelope. > I have a feeling it's a lot older than this PET. Both of my PETs have quite > ordinary-looking ROMs. > (The one with the mini keyboard has the 1.0 BASIC ROMs, with the '*** > COMMODORE BASIC ***' message and the other one has upgrade ROMs.) My 'calculator keyboard' PET has 1.0 too. I have the schematics and diagnostics for it too... Has been modified with a reset switch has ability to use a skyles add-on keyboard (you have to load and run a program first), and of course, expandamem. > Um... hold it... how are the 4116's arranged? You probably said, but of > course I can't go back into my mailbox to read that while I'm replying to > this one (I knew there was a reason I should my system to do this > locally!). If they're 16K by 4, then that certainly WOULD be more than > 8K. :) I think those are only 8kx1. I did look at my expandamem board and the chips with the plates on them had (c)Mostek written. > (RE: Visible Memory Board deveoped for KIM-1 first.) > Wow, that's incredible. Not only did I not think that PETs that old could > do high-res graphics in any way, but to learn that one could do so on the > KIM-1! I'm flabberghasted. ;) > The KIM is something I'd really like to find somewhere. So would I. > I have this terrible fear, though, of coming across one in some electronic surplus > shop and not recognizing it. :) I had nightmares about coming across an incredible Commodore stash in some store and not having any money. *gasp!* > (re: MTU visible memory ad) > BTW, I'd love a copy of that ad. Send it to: > Doug Spence > 85 Devon Road > Baie d'Urfe, Que. > H9X 2X3 > CANADA Heck I'll toss in some disks full of other goodies too. But don't hold your breath I tend to froget doing things (like mailing stuff) for a spell. ---------- From: "Mr. Self Destruct" <more(a)camlaw.rutgers.edu> Subject: Re: weekend additions > The plus/4 could run *some* very simple basic programs from 64/vic-20 land > but even that was a chore if I remember correctly because of the different > ways the computers "tokenized" basic. I think the main difference was between the 128 and the Plus/4s extended BASIC, but was compatible with the 64. > There was also a "parallel" drive for this > computer (well I think there was) called an SFX-1??? something or other. The parallel one was the 1551; the SFX 1001 was a 1 meg floppy drive the the PET using an IEEE-488 interface (esentally an 8250 with only one disk drive.) ---------- From: "Mr. Self Destruct" <more(a)camlaw.rutgers.edu> Subject: Funky looking mouse and other TCF stuff... >1 CBM 8032 $5 > (this things got some kind of memory board that plugs into the CPU > socket and a parallel interface) Wait a minute here, are you sure it's not a RS-232 interface? It could be an 8032 upgraded to a SuperPET. If it is a SuperPET there would be a 6809 processor as well as the 6502 in there and you have 96k of RAM accessible (via bank switching). Keyboard my have some odd characters on it too (to support the languages it could run such as APL, Fortran, COBOL, etc.) Of course to run the languages you would need the disks and a drive. (I don't have them) Otherwise the daughterboard could be memory to bring it up to 96k (via bank switching) or as I mentioned a visible memory board - the indication for it is that the monitor will plug into the daughter board and then the daughterboard plugs into the motherboard's video output connector. - :) BTW REALLY GOOD PRICE! Larry Anderson P.S. I think I'm gonna start writing a FAQ about the Commodore PET. Will let you guys now when I get it on-line. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

26 years, 11 months

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-04-29 11:22:24 EDT, you write: << Yes, I realized that. The PDP-8 and PDP-11 are definitely worthy of mention, but did they really make the impact and have significance equal to the Altair and the others? I'm sure you could argue to that effect. Care to? >> someone can correct me if necessary, but weren't the first PDP's pretty "important" in that respect? Suddenly, universities could have their own systems. or maybe I am dreaming, mixing stories from various books. Kelly

26 years, 11 months

by jeffh＠eleventh.com

On 29-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote: >I'll second his nomination, and with great trepidation add Jay Miner to >the list. :) I think Jay Miner is definately worthy of inclusion since he did much of the design of the Atari 8bit machines, such as the 400/800, and he is generally considered the father of the Amiga line. Out of curiosity, is anyone willing to nominate Jack Tremiel? <sp?> Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent from an Amiga 3000..the computer for the creative mind! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, 800XL, and Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128D, Plus/4 and VIC-20, IBM 5155, Kaypro 2X, Osbourne Executive Radofin Aquarius, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3 and Model 4, plus Atari Superpong and 2600VCS game consoles.

26 years, 11 months

by scott＠saskatoon.com

> On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > Altair, Imsai and SWTPC? (Especially the last -- I > prefer Motorola to Intel). OOPS! I have a Motorola-based Altair... (Altair 680) Maybe we can feature it? (Just kidding, but I thought I should point out your slight error.) ttfn srw ------------------------------------------------------------ Walde Techonology http://scott.cprompt.sk.ca Box 7284 finger: scott(a)cprompt.sk.ca Saskatoon, SK S7K 4J2 email: scott(a)cprompt.sk.ca CANADA email: walde(a)dlcwest.com -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS d- s:+>: a- C++++$ UL++++$ !P L++ E- W+++$ N+ o? K? w$ O- M-- V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP->++ t+ 5 X+ !R tv- b+ DI++++ D+ G e* h r++ y- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

26 years, 11 months

by dastar＠crl.com

*** Preliminary Announcement *** First Annual Classic Computer Collector Conference Why? Next question... Where? Livermore, California (tentative...actual venue TBD) When? Late Summer 1997 (possibly August) Who? Organizer: Sam Ismail Sponsors: Pending (targeted sponsors will be Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories and other computer manufacturers in the local area and Silicon Valley). What? The Classic Computer Collector Convention is slated to be the premier computer faire to attend to meet with fellow classic computer collector geeks, buy/sell/trade classic computer stuff, exchange classic computer software and classic computer hints and tips, attend workshops on classic computer preservation and restoration, and of course see classic computers. Some show features: Classic Computer Spotlight - every year a legendary system is chosen to be heralded as the classic computer of the year (nominees for the first show are Altair 8800; Apple ][; Commodore PET; ???). Classic Computer Pioneer - every year an individual from the annals of computer lore will be chosen as the Classic Computer Pioneer of the year. This would be someone who had a lasting legacy or made a historical impact on the computer industry, but is not necessarily active anymore (ie. this precludes Bill Gates from qualifying). Nominees: Gary Kildall, creator of CP/M; Steve Wozniak; ??? Classic Computer Museum - A classic museum will be set-up on-site to allow interested public to see what classic computers are all about. Attendees will be encouraged to submit their favorite classics for display during the show. The success of the show will depend on attendance. Admission will be enough to cover the costs of running the show (including lease of the venue, advertising, etc). Although there won't be much of a vending atmosphere (unless people want to haul their stuff from all over the country) space will be sold for such purposes. More details as I come up with them. I would really appreciate feedback from the patrons of this discussion group. Any ideas, comments, suggestions are welcome (please suggest a better name!) IMPORTANT: Please keep this information within this discussion group until the details have been finalized and the show is a go. I don't want to announce to the general public until I am sure this event will take place. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

26 years, 11 months

Contest

by scott＠saskatoon.com

In case you missed it, my basement can be viewed at: http://scott.cprompt.sk.ca/pics/basement.jpg or if you have a crappy old browser that doesn't send "Host:" in the request: http://www.cprompt.sk.ca/scott/pics/basement.jpg I can identify 20 machines (18 unique) in this picture. (Some are in boxes, and of course, I have the high-resolution version by walking around the corner and down the stairs... but anyway...) How many can you identify? For bonus marks if you can identify any peripherals. Email your answers to me at: scott(a)saskatoon.com ttfn srw ------------------------------------------------------------ Walde Techonology http://scott.cprompt.sk.ca Box 7284 finger: scott(a)cprompt.sk.ca Saskatoon, SK S7K 4J2 email: scott(a)cprompt.sk.ca CANADA email: walde(a)dlcwest.com -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS d- s:+>: a- C++++$ UL++++$ !P L++ E- W+++$ N+ o? K? w$ O- M-- V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP->++ t+ 5 X+ !R tv- b+ DI++++ D+ G e* h r++ y- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

26 years, 11 months

Osborne 1 prices (was: On Generations of People and Computers )

by ronaldm＠mars.ark.com

I have an Apple II Plus, with 4 (count 'em) 4, 128k disk drives, all operational. It also has a 256k RAM card, an 80 col card, and a Super Serial card along with a Microsoft Z80 CP/M card. I don't use it very much these days, except for a bit of record keeping on my video tape collection. Just out of sheer perversity, I'm using Appleworks, which loads itself into the RAM card and seems to operate from there. Also have something called the DAVEX shell, which provides a front end for a number of activities including running Appleworks. Once you get the <ESCAPE-DO THIS-DO-THAT> keys figured out, it works not half bad for my occasional record keeping. It's like most of the stuff I have around here. It came with a literal ton of software, most of which I haven't even taken the time to check out yet. Also has a voice recognition card, and an EPROM burner which are sadly stored away in my lockup. One of these days. So many computers, so little time! -Ron Mitchell ---------- > From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Osborne 1 prices (was: On Generations of People and Computers ) > Date: Saturday, April 26, 1997 12:52 PM > > > > I just swapped a bare II/E for a Bare II. Going price for a bare IIE is about > > > $20 on the Apple newsgroups. Apple II's don't seem to be valued very much in > > > the Apple II newsgroup or for sale group. Tim. (Balance of message snipped)

26 years, 11 months

by scott＠saskatoon.com

> > OOPS! I have a Motorola-based Altair... (Altair 680) > I recall the ads, now that you mention it -- don't recall ever seeing > one in person. How much are you asking? (Although the SWTPC bus was It's not for sale ;-) If you want to see it, I just put up a .jpg on my website. (No nice link to it yet though...) http://scott.cprompt.sk.ca/pics/altair680.jpg And for anyone's curiosity, one corner of my basement can be seen at: http://scott.cprompt.sk.ca/pics/basement.jpg (How many machines can you identify on this picture?) > considerably superior to the Altair bus -- life is too short to hold > humble opinions.) As far as I can tell, the 680 really didn't have much of a bus at all. (We are talking about an expansion bus, aren't we? Not the mandatory data & address busses.) There are no slots inside. The 680 is considerable smaller than the 8800s. ttfn srw ------------------------------------------------------------ Walde Techonology http://scott.cprompt.sk.ca Box 7284 finger: scott(a)cprompt.sk.ca Saskatoon, SK S7K 4J2 email: scott(a)cprompt.sk.ca CANADA email: walde(a)dlcwest.com -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS d- s:+>: a- C++++$ UL++++$ !P L++ E- W+++$ N+ o? K? w$ O- M-- V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP->++ t+ 5 X+ !R tv- b+ DI++++ D+ G e* h r++ y- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

26 years, 11 months

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test-drb April 1997