27 Feb
2010
27 Feb
'10
5:36 p.m.
I'm going through some stuff my Aunt brought me last month, she's
apparently helping someone that was seriously into Commodore
computers clean out. In the pile is a Commodore 1520 Plotter. I had
one of these back in the 80's. Am I correct that there isn't any
source of pens any more? Of course I haven't even had time to see if
it works.
The real treasure is all the books. There are dozen's of books on
the VIC-20, C-64, and electronics (lots of Radio Shack books from the
70's and 80's, and other books). There are at least the first two
Compute Guide to the VIC-20 and the first 3 for the C-64! :-)
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
27 Feb
27 Feb
8:22 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: healyzh at aracnet.com
Sent: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:36:55 -0800
To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
Subject: Commodore 1520 Plotter
I'm going through some stuff my Aunt brought me last month, she's
apparently helping someone that was seriously into Commodore
computers clean out. In the pile is a Commodore 1520 Plotter. I had
one of these back in the 80's. Am I correct that there isn't any
source of pens any more? Of course I haven't even had time to see if
it works.
The real treasure is all the books. There are dozen's of books on
the VIC-20, C-64, and electronics (lots of Radio Shack books from the
70's and 80's, and other books). There are at least the first two
Compute Guide to the VIC-20 and the first 3 for the C-64! :-)
Zane
I used to own one of these; it's a cool little toy.
according to this web page:
http://www.commodore128.org/index.php?topic=1405.0
a German firm was supplying pens (apparently, they are also
used in some obscure bio-med equipment) in 2007. So, maybe
they're still available. This page also has some handy
hints for these units. . . . .
Jeff
28 Feb
28 Feb
11:15 a.m.
I'm going through some stuff my Aunt brought me last month, she's
apparently helping someone that was seriously into Commodore
computers clean out. In the pile is a Commodore 1520 Plotter. I had
one of these back in the 80's. Am I correct that there isn't any
source of pens any more? Of course I haven't even had time to see if
They're the same pens as for many other 'plotters' -- like the Radio
Shack CGP115, Sharp CE150, etc. If anyone knows of a current source [1]
I've got several of the machines...
[1] I do not want to start a thread about op-amp + transistor + sense
resistor circuits ...
Actually, somebody should maintain a list of compnanies that still sell
consumables for classic machines -- printer ribbons, thermal paper,
plotter pens, etc.
it works.
The main thing that fails in these plotters is the motor pinion. It is
pushed onto the stepper motor spindle (1 for each axis) and it splits.
When this happens, of course, it slips on the spindle and no longer
meshes amoothly with the next gear. The Alps service manual for the
mechanism doesn't list the pinion as a separate part (you are supposed to
replace the motor), but I have heard htat Radio Shack used to sell thme
as spares, Of course not any more...
If the pens arestill available, I might be more willing to try to find or
make a replacement pinion...
-tony
12:32 p.m.
At 7:15 PM +0000 2/28/10, Tony Duell wrote:
Actually, somebody should maintain a list of compnanies
that still sell
consumables for classic machines -- printer ribbons, thermal paper,
plotter pens, etc.
I totally agree, though it won't be me, no time. It looks like I've
got several rolls of paper (which probably translates to a lifetime
supply for me).
I'll likely have the same question about a printer when I get it dug
out. We were in a hurry when the stuff was delivered, so we just
dumped it, but I think it's a Commodore Printer (not sure the make or
model), which would make it a first for me.
While I had the plotter in High School, I never had a printer or
Floppy drive for my VIC-20.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
12:45 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
They're the same pens as for many other
'plotters' -- like the Radio
Shack CGP115, Sharp CE150, etc. If anyone knows of a current source [1]
I've got several of the machines...
I have an elecronic typewriter/printer with this mechanism.. the
difference is it has a 210mm (8 1/4 inch) A4 platten instead of the
toilet roll width.
Its a Brother i think!
I'm sure someone makes little fibertip pens for these. The ballpoint
design was too prone to drying out IMO.
Perhaps there is a ballpoint/Biro FAQ somewhere in the interweb with
tips on rejuvenating ballpoints.
Roger
1:44 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Yes, I have one of those somewhere. You could automatically draw bar
charts and pie charts from data entered at the keyboard. It also has a
Centronics input which uses the same command set as the stand-alone
smaller plotters. This typewriter came with 2 sets of pens. One was the
normal black/blue/green/red set. The other included a pen full of Tipp-Ex
type correcting fluid. Yes, you did delete a character from the paper by
writing it with that pen (!).
-tony
They're the same pens as for many other
'plotters' -- like the Radio
Shack CGP115, Sharp CE150, etc. If anyone knows of a current source [1]
I've got several of the machines...
I have an elecronic typewriter/printer with this mechanism.. the
difference is it has a 210mm (8 1/4 inch) A4 platten instead of the
toilet roll width.
Its a Brother i think! 
3:42 p.m.
On 28 Feb 2010 at 20:45, Roger Pugh wrote:
I'm sure someone makes little fibertip pens for
these. The ballpoint
design was too prone to drying out IMO. Perhaps there is a
ballpoint/Biro FAQ somewhere in the interweb with tips on rejuvenating
ballpoints.
I'd check with an outfit that stocks pens for chart recorders. I
remember several recorders that used fibertip pens (much more
reliable than the capillary-feed variety). Moore even had a fibertip
retrofit kit for some of their units.
Speaking of pens and printers, does anyone recall a Japanese (Canon
or Seiko perhaps) printer of the 70s or 80 (ISTR) that featured the
ability to write script, complete with a bit of randomization so as
to appear handwritten by a human?
--Chuck
4:25 p.m.
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010, Roger Pugh wrote:
I'm sure someone makes little fibertip pens for
these. The ballpoint
design was too prone to drying out IMO.
Perhaps there is a ballpoint/Biro FAQ somewhere in the interweb with
tips on rejuvenating ballpoints.
MOST "dried-up"/"out of ink" ballpoint pens can be used for a bit
longer
after holding the tip briefly in the flame of a match.
Have you tried injecting more ink into one?
Howzbout cutting down a regular ballpoint refill, and sealing the cut end?
9:44 p.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010, Roger Pugh wrote:
I have no knowledge of this plotter, and no connection with either of
the companies I'm about to mention, but I am really very picky about the
ball point pens I use so I thought I'd throw this out in case it might
help someone. For almost all purposes I use Pilot Precise V5 Extra Fine
pens in black, blue or red; and I think they are just great. For
working crossword puzzles on newspaper stock, I've become addicted to
the Pentel EnerGel 0.7mm pen. This latter one might be too coarse for a
plotter. If I were going to try and devise a plotter pen replacement,
I'm sure I'd start with the Pilot. I do think they would need to be
capped when not in use, and I don't know if that would disqualify them
or not.
Later,
Charlie C.
I'm sure someone makes little fibertip pens
for these. The ballpoint
design was too prone to drying out IMO.
Perhaps there is a ballpoint/Biro FAQ somewhere in the interweb with
tips on rejuvenating ballpoints.
MOST "dried-up"/"out of ink" ballpoint pens can be used for a bit
longer
after holding the tip briefly in the flame of a match.
Have you tried injecting more ink into one?
Howzbout cutting down a regular ballpoint refill, and sealing the cut end?
1 Mar
1 Mar
11:29 a.m.
Have you tried injecting more ink into one?
Howzbout cutting down a regular ballpoint refill, and sealing the cut end?
These pens have an integral; metal body which has to be the right size to
fit into the carraige mechansim of the plotter. 4 pens fit into a thing a
bit like the chambers of a revolver (as in the pistol) and the pen-down
mechanism presses on the back end of each pen. So the diameter and length
matter.
I haev pletny of dead ones here (I never throw anything like that
away...). Sometime I will dismantle a few (the first ones probably
destrctively until I can see what bits I need to save, etc) and see if
it's possble to refill them or use them to make holders for other
cut-donw pens.
-tony
11:52 a.m.
On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I haev pletny of dead ones here (I never throw
anything like that
away...). Sometime I will dismantle a few (the first ones probably
destrctively until I can see what bits I need to save, etc) and see if
it's possble to refill them or use them to make holders for other
cut-donw pens.
I have a box of dead pens, too. One thought would be to bore out the
ball and see about retrofitting a felt-tip. I doubt it would be easy
to inject new ink, but perhaps it might be possible.
With a felt-tip, at least new ink could be introduced by wicking or
under low-pressure.
I never have found a source of replacement gears, though. I learned
about an effort to have some custom-cut out of metal, but I was far
too late to participate.
-ethan
12:23 p.m.
I could be wrong about this, but if I'm not mistaken, the pens used in the Commodore
plotter are the same as those used in the Radio Shack TRS-80 PC-2 Printer/Plotter. Not
sure if that makes them any easier to find though. :)
________________________________
From: Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 1:29:05 PM
Subject: Re: Commodore 1520 Plotter
Have you tried injecting more ink into one?
Howzbout cutting down a regular ballpoint refill, and sealing the cut end?
These pens have an integral; metal body which has to be the right size to
fit into the carraige mechansim of the plotter. 4 pens fit into a thing a
bit like the chambers of a revolver (as in the pistol) and the pen-down
mechanism presses on the back end of each pen. So the diameter and length
matter.
I haev pletny of dead ones here (I never throw anything like that
away...). Sometime I will dismantle a few (the first ones probably
destrctively until I can see what bits I need to save, etc) and see if
it's possble to refill them or use them to make holders for other
cut-donw pens.
-tony
12:56 p.m.
I could be wrong about this, but if I'm not mistaken, the pens used in
the Commodore plotter are the same as those used in the Radio Shack
TRS-80 PC-2 Printer/Plotter. Not sure if that makes them any easier to
find though. :)
Correct. I mentioned the Sharp CE150, which is what the PC2
printer/plotter is a rebandged version of.
The PC2 family was closely related to the Shapr PC1500 machine, although
I think the pritner/plotter was the only unit that was simply rebandged.
The machine itself had a different keyboard layout (a right pain if you
wanted to use keyboard overlays), and the RS232 interface was a Sahpe
CE158 RS232/centronitcs interface without he centronics buffer PCB and
connector. The I/O chip was still there though. I have both the Sharp and
Radio Shack version, I modified the latter by fittend an 8-bit ADC
converter on a bit of prototyping board, fitting it where the Centronics
buffer should have gone and interfacing it through the unused lienson the
I/O chip that would have been used for the Centronics port.
Anyway, it does use the same pens. As does the Radio Shack CGP115, the
printer that's built into one version of the Sharp MZ700 (I think that's
the number, but the manual [1] is not to hand), the Oric printer, and
several others. I think at least one digital 'scope (Gould?) used the
same mechanism.
[1] It's a nodd manual. It starts off telling you how to plug the machine
in to the mains and your TV. Then ther's an introduction to BASIC with
cartoon characters. So it's not a technical manual. But then you get full
schematisc (of everything, including the printer and SMPSU), an
introduction to machine code, memory maps and a commentes source of the
monitor ROM. Hmmm...
-tony
1 p.m.
Ah yes... sorry I overlooked your mention of the PC1500. The PC-2 and 1500 are fine little
machines. Had lots of fun tinkering with the PC-2 as a kid. Just wish I had the RAM
expander for it.
Back to your regularly scheduled plotter pen dilemma...
________________________________
From: Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 2:56:13 PM
Subject: Re: Commodore 1520 Plotter
I could be wrong about this, but if I'm not mistaken, the pens used in
the Commodore plotter are the same as those used in the Radio Shack
TRS-80 PC-2 Printer/Plotter. Not sure if that makes them any easier to
find though. :)
Correct. I mentioned the Sharp CE150, which is what the PC2
printer/plotter is a rebandged version of.
The PC2 family was closely related to the Shapr PC1500 machine, although
I think the pritner/plotter was the only unit that was simply rebandged.
The machine itself had a different keyboard layout (a right pain if you
wanted to use keyboard overlays), and the RS232 interface was a Sahpe
CE158 RS232/centronitcs interface without he centronics buffer PCB and
connector. The I/O chip was still there though. I have both the Sharp and
Radio Shack version, I modified the latter by fittend an 8-bit ADC
converter on a bit of prototyping board, fitting it where the Centronics
buffer should have gone and interfacing it through the unused lienson the
I/O chip that would have been used for the Centronics port.
Anyway, it does use the same pens. As does the Radio Shack CGP115, the
printer that's built into one version of the Sharp MZ700 (I think that's
the number, but the manual [1] is not to hand), the Oric printer, and
several others. I think at least one digital 'scope (Gould?) used the
same mechanism.
[1] It's a nodd manual. It starts off telling you how to plug the machine
in to the mains and your TV. Then ther's an introduction to BASIC with
cartoon characters. So it's not a technical manual. But then you get full
schematisc (of everything, including the printer and SMPSU), an
introduction to machine code, memory maps and a commentes source of the
monitor ROM. Hmmm...
-tony
2 Mar
2 Mar
1:14 p.m.
Ah yes... sorry I overlooked your mention of the PC1500. The PC-2 and
1500 are fine little machines. Had lots of fun tinkering with the PC-2
as a kid. Just wish I had the RAM expander for it.
I have one too, and as you may have guessed, I hacked it a bit. I bought
the Technical manual from Sharp (mise is a PC1500 rather than a PC2),
which geve ,me schematics, the instruction set, and useful ROM calls.
It has a nice standard-ish expansion bus (16 parallel address lines, 8
parallel data lines, etc), so homebrew hardware hacks are certainly possible.
Back to your regularly scheduled plotter pen dilemma...
I bolted a board to the bottom of my CE150 (and covered it with a
custom-made plastic case) containng some 6364 RAM chips. I think I mapped
16K into the 'normal' address sapce for program and data storage and 8K
into the secondtay space (accessible by PEEK# and POKE# IIRC) which can
only be used for data.
The HP71B is a much nicer machine, but a lot more expensive back then, and
the techncial docs were out of this world (I think a comp[lete IDS cost
more than the machine!). Of course the HP documentation was excellent and
included full commented ROM source, but... (I now have it, BTW...). And
the HP71 bus is nothing short of strange...
-tony
1 Mar
1 Mar
2:35 p.m.
New subject: CBM MPS801 available; was Commodore 1520 Plotter
Forgive me for tagging onto a Commodore thread, but I've got an MPS-
801 dot matrix printer that I'd like to give away for the cost of
shipping from 97405. It runs the self-test just fine; I can't test
anything beyond that.
I've tried and failed to find a taker on Erik's VC Forum, so if it
doesn't get taken by the end of the week, ?'m going to scrap it--I
don't collect Commodore.
Thanks,
Chuck
3 p.m.
New subject: CBM MPS801 available; was Commodore 1520 Plotter
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Forgive me for tagging onto a Commodore thread,
All this talk of Commodore peripherals is making me nostalgic. I will
dust off the SX64 at weekend and have a play i think!
I'm sure i have some of these new fiber tip printer/plotter pens i got
with a tandy plotter somewhere.. i will take a photo of a fiber pen if
i find one!
remember "open 1,8,15" commands?
Roger
28 Feb
28 Feb
3:58 p.m.
---snip---
Actually, somebody should maintain a list of compnanies that still sell
consumables for classic machines -- printer ribbons, thermal paper,
plotter pens, etc.
Hi
The place I found pens for my HP 7044A XY plotter was
at:
http://thetestequipmentatore.com
They were not cheap but resonable considering that they
are otherwise obsolete.
Dwight
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1 Mar
1 Mar
5:02 p.m.
I've a few of these plotters that claim they are parts units. If anyone
is looking for a part, I can see if the units have the requisite part
and can mail it (or them) out. Or, I can mail the entire unit if
someone needs a batch of parts.
Jim
5190
days inactive
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