8 Mar
2010
8 Mar
'10
3:53 p.m.
Guys, don't confuse "rare" with "more historic". "Rare"
just means
"fewer". If the people at Tandy produced a limited-edition TRS-80, and
the only difference was it had a yellow polka-dot case design, and only
100 were ever made, does that mean it's more "rare" than a Straight-8?
Technically, yes! Does that make it more historic? It's too dumb a
question to even ask.
(I'm not putting down the PERQ systems, etc.; those are certainly
historic in their own regard.)
And yes, DEC isn't as popular as Apple; there won't be millions of DEC
fanboys and stuff ......
But it's hard to argue that the Straight-8 isn't one of the most *
historic * systems ever made, re: historic = grand context and
importance to the history of the computer industry. Rarity is a big
factor too, but the '8 has it all. Historic, rare, desirable.
8 Mar
8 Mar
4 p.m.
Second sweeping generalization:
All old computers are historic.
In the railroad preservation field, the question "How many steam
locomotives are historic?" yields the semi-serious answer "All of
them".
--
Will, jaded and cynical
4:20 p.m.
All old steam engines are worth saving. Most old computers are not.
Zane
On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, William Donzelli wrote:
Second sweeping generalization:
All old computers are historic.
In the railroad preservation field, the question "How many steam
locomotives are historic?" yields the semi-serious answer "All of
them".
--
Will, jaded and cynical
9:52 p.m.
On Mar 8, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
So we should ship all those x86 boxes no one wants to you?
You know better than that. ;)
Though I suppose it probably is fair to say that there are more
(say) 80486 boxes out there than PDP-11s.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
All old steam engines are worth saving. Most old
computers are not.
Urr? I think it's just the opposite.
10:48 p.m.
At 9:52 PM -0500 3/8/10, Dave McGuire wrote:
On Mar 8, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
So we should ship all those x86 boxes no one wants to you?
You know better than that. ;)
Though I suppose it probably is fair to say that there are more
(say) 80486 boxes out there than PDP-11s.
-Dave
Now you see my point. :-)
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
All old steam engines are worth saving. Most old
computers are not.
Urr? I think it's just the opposite. 
10:24 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, Dave McGuire wrote:
If he is real lucky, we can give him the buggy 586's too!
[1]
On Mar 8, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
So we should ship all those x86 boxes no one wants to you? All old steam engines are worth saving. Most old
computers are not.
Urr? I think it's just the opposite.
-Dave Zane
What scares me is that other than
audio/video processing like in DVD
and CD players and the odd console, has there been a real need for
bloatware as today products claim to want. I still hen-peck at at
same speed on a TTY as last years computer keyboard?
Ben.
1] PS if we want to be real nasty, throw computers in the x86 boxes.
10:44 p.m.
On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, Ben wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
I'll take your unwanted Model M keyboards.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, Dave McGuire wrote:
If he is real lucky, we can give him the buggy 586's too!
[1]
On Mar 8, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
So we should ship all those x86 boxes no one wants to you? All old steam engines are worth saving. Most old
computers are not.
Urr? I think it's just the opposite.
-Dave Zane
What scares me is that other than
audio/video processing like in DVD
and CD players and the odd console, has there been a real need for
bloatware as today products claim to want. I still hen-peck at at
same speed on a TTY as last years computer keyboard?
Ben.
1] PS if we want to be real nasty, throw computers in the x86 boxes.
10:59 p.m.
New subject: rare and not-so rare systems available
At 7:44 PM -0800 3/8/10, David Griffith wrote:
I'll take your unwanted Model M keyboards.
Hehehe... I only have two, and they're among the very few Classic
Computer items that I want to keep.
Is anyone in Oregon looking for Classic Hardware? If so what. I'm
looking to start selling off my collection. Though someone with a
nice Leica (with lenses), or Hasselblad or Large Format Lenses might
be able to score a good trade.
Yes, this includes rare systems. Except for some PDP-11, VAX, Alpha,
and Commodore gear I think I'm looking to unload most of my classic
gear.
The only computer I use at home any more is my Mac. I just don't
have time or interest in Classic Computers any more.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
4:19 p.m.
Evan Koblentz wrote:
Guys, don't confuse "rare" with
"more historic". "Rare" just means
"fewer". If the people at Tandy produced a limited-edition TRS-80,
and the only difference was it had a yellow polka-dot case design, and
only 100 were ever made, does that mean it's more "rare" than a
Straight-8? Technically, yes! Does that make it more historic? It's
too dumb a question to even ask.
(I'm not putting down the PERQ systems, etc.; those are certainly
historic in their own regard.)
And yes, DEC isn't as popular as Apple; there won't be millions of DEC
fanboys and stuff ......
But it's hard to argue that the Straight-8 isn't one of the most *
historic * systems ever made, re: historic = grand context and
importance to the history of the computer industry. Rarity is a big
factor too, but the '8 has it all. Historic, rare, desirable.
Evan,
are you watching this transaction with utter fascination, or driving up
the price ? ( insert smiley )
My rarest system : a homebuilt 12bit TTL machine : it is a one off !
Jos
4:42 p.m.
Guys,
don't confuse "rare" with "more historic". "Rare" just
means
"fewer". If the people at Tandy produced a limited-edition TRS-80,
and the only difference was it had a yellow polka-dot case design,
and only 100 were ever made, does that mean it's more "rare" than a
Straight-8? Technically, yes! Does that make it more historic?
It's too dumb a question to even ask.
(I'm not putting down the PERQ systems, etc.; those are certainly
historic in their own regard.)
And yes, DEC isn't as popular as Apple; there won't be millions of
DEC fanboys and stuff ......
But it's hard to argue that the Straight-8 isn't one of the most *
historic * systems ever made, re: historic = grand context and
importance to the history of the computer industry. Rarity is a big
factor too, but the '8 has it all. Historic, rare, desirable.
Evan,
are you watching this transaction with utter fascination, or driving
up the price ? ( insert smiley ) 
5:55 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan at snarc.net>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: rare systems
LOL .... for the purpose of * acquiring * systems, we
all want prices to
go * down *, right? But for the purpose of our personal (and in my case,
museum) collections, we want prices to go up. Quite a dilemma.
Of course, I want to see Sellam be successful and make lots of money in
this field. The success of VintageTech directly helps improve the VCF
events, which helps popularize our hobby, and helps my own group be
successful too.
Prices should be a few times scrap value at minimum so they are worth
seeking a buyer, and cheap enough that people do not start hoarding them for
profit driving prices up for no real reason (bubble).
Why does the hobby have to be popular with the mainstream anyway?
9 Mar
9 Mar
2:48 p.m.
LOL .... for the purpose of * acquiring * systems, we
all want prices to
go * down *, right? But for the purpose of our personal (and in my
case, museum) collections, we want prices to go up. Quite a dilemma.
I get the first part of that, but I can't understand why it's desirable
for the prices of machines I already own to go up. I don't intend to sell
said machines, I certainly didn'y buy them as an investment. And they
jsut as mauch fun to restore and use no matter what they would sell for.
-tony
8 Mar
8 Mar
5:07 p.m.
Jos Dreesen wrote:
are you watching this transaction with utter
fascination, or driving up
the price ? ( insert smiley )
My rarest system : a homebuilt 12bit TTL machine : it is a one off !
Any intresting features? I still have a bunch unused front panel
switches just waiting for a good project to with them.
I plan to build a good 20 bit LS computer, someday since I
still am playing around with tube audio. I got the sound I like
but dreaded 120 Hz noise is there so that will kill any digital
projects for a while as I try to find the proper power supply design
for this kind of amp[1].
Jos
Ben.
[1] I belive the low noise/hum possible but very little is on
how to design a LCLC power supply is on the web.
9 Mar
9 Mar
2:32 p.m.
Guys, don't confuse "rare" with "more historic".
"Rare" just means
"fewer". If the people at Tandy produced a limited-edition TRS-80, and
the only difference was it had a yellow polka-dot case design, and only
100 were ever made, does that mean it's more "rare" than a Straight-8?
Technically, yes! Does that make it more historic? It's too dumb a
question to even ask.
Oh, I agree with you totally. But I interpretted the original message as
saying that a straight-8 should seel for more than an Apple 1 becuase
it's rarer. I am simply arguing that rarity is not the major factor in
determining price (and nor, IMHO should it be).
One thing that certainly doesn't correlate with price is quality (either
design quality of build quality). This is obvious from the fact that a
Sinclair ZX80 will sell for a lot more than a contemporary HP machine...
(I'm not putting down the PERQ systems, etc.; those are certainly
historic in their own regard.)
Actually, nrither of those PERQs is particulalry historic. Th PERQ 2T4 is
the last of the classic PERQs, and the only one with a 24 bit (rather
than 20 bit) processor. The AGW3300 is an ICL-designed 68020 unix box,
albeit one with a curious graphics procesosr (a pair of 29116s, one to
calculate adresses, the other to update the bitmap data). I would claim
the really historic PERQ is the original PERQ 1 (with a 4K WCS CPU),
since that was the _first_. Mine is upstairs... It's not a particularly
rare machine
And yes, DEC isn't as popular as Apple; there won't be millions of DEC
fanboys and stuff ......
But it's hard to argue that the Straight-8 isn't one of the most *
historic * systems ever made, re: historic = grand context and
importance to the history of the computer industry. Rarity is a big
factor too, but the '8 has it all. Historic, rare, desirable.
I won't argue about the 'historic' or 'rare', but is it particularly
desirable (for reasons other than being historic and rare)? I would have
thought a later PDP8 machine, such ad a PDP8/e was more desirable
technically (it can take more memory, it uses more common logic levels,
there are more peripherals for it (and they're easier to find), it uses
TTL logic levels (so it's easier to make your own interfaces, and so on).
-tony
5214
days inactive
5215
days old
16 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
evan＠snarc.net -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jdr_use＠bluewin.ch -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com