- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

looking for TI printer

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Looking for a TI 820 KSR printer. Anyone have a working one available for trade? J

11 years, 8 months

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Fwd: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

or, if not, anyone feel like helping me port a contemporary line printer daemon to 2.11bsd? --jake p.s. sorry for the previous subject misfire.

11 years, 8 months

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Strange qbus board

by roeapeterson＠gmail.com

I received a qbus board with a small pdp11/23 system recently, and I can't find any info about it with my best googling. It's made by data systems design, copyright 1980, appears to be model 804120-01. Dual-width qbus board, with a 34-pin ribbon cable connector on the top board edge, maybe floppy controller? The only real non-ttl non-rom chip is a AM2901BPC. This seems to be a four-bit bit slice micro... Anyone ever seen this beastie? Thanks.

11 years, 8 months

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HP LaserJet Font cartridges needed by anyone?

by mattislind＠gmail.com

With a nice HP85 computer I just got there were two HP 92286K MATH TMS font cartridges included. I have no idea why. Myself I have no compatible printer. Does anyone want the font cartridges? Free for cost of shipping from Sweden. I save them for a couple of months then I toss them if there is no interest.

11 years, 8 months

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22-bit ECO for REV11 [AKA TEV11] (M9400)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> Does anyone know if an ECO exists to convert a REV11 board (M9400) to > 22-bit BTW, it appears that that board (in some configurations) is also known as a TEV11. > in the same way that an ECO exists to convert BDV11's to 22-bit? (On > the BDV11, there's a resistor pack with 4 unused pull-up/down pairs So I located a set of prints for the TEV11 (which I must scan and get to Al, they don't appear to be available online), and on the M9400 there are four spare pull-up/down pairs, although not all in one package. They are: E6-1 E17-1 E17-12 E27-15 I have verified that these are free (looked at a board, no traces to those pins). (And yes, the 1 pin is usable - it's used in E27.) Not all in the same package, so the ECO will be a bit messy, but it can be done. Guess I should read out the ROMs, too (assuming they haven't already suffered bit rot). Noel

11 years, 8 months

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C, please die, and take Go with you - Re: Fwd: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?

by commodorejohn＠gmail.com

> From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > People traded safety for speed, and thanks to the net and cowboy > programming, that has turned out to be a bad decision. Pshaw. C is only as unsafe as you make it. It's not the language that has caused, for example, Internet security issues - it's programmers who refuse to learn well-known lessons like "always, always, *always* bounds-check network-facing buffers *no matter what*" that give us things like Heartbleed and any number of other overrun/underrun/etc. vulnerabilities. Blaming the language for the badness of bad programmers is like blaming the chainsaw for the actions of some nitwit who decapitated himself playing with one.

11 years, 8 months

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RUNOFF was Fwd: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

DEC sold WPS-8 which ran on PDP-8's, which was kinda WYSIWYG (rulers etc), but I don't know of anything quite up the WYSIWYG alley for the -11's. Most common on an -11 was a basic text editor plus DECUS runoff (which most often just formatted for a line or dot matrix printer). DECUS runoff for the PDP-11 (at least in late 70's was under the DECUS text processing SIG) is obviously a reimplementation of most common features of PDP-10-ish DSR . I don't know if DEC ever officially had DSR for the PDP-11. DSR = "Digital Standard Runoff". DECUS runoff has a lot in common with DSR and the other "classic" runoffs but I've never done an actual entymology to see what is unique and what is common between them for a lineage. I myself have re-implemented runoff in Perl a couple of times. It is completely trivial in Perl. Tim.

11 years, 8 months

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36bit still in use ?

by rhirst＠xkl.com

I'm Roy Hirst, a hobbyist new to the list - today is my day 1 - and I currently work for XKL LLC. I'd like to contribute where I can to this and other conversations on cctalk. XKL makes a line of optical networking systems, think 10x10GE in 1RU. A system has two planes, a (1) traffic plane where client equipment (e.g. "server") traffic gets aggregated to DWDM channels on a single optical fiber, and (2) a management plane that, er, manages remote config, real-time failover, OS field upgrades, etc. The planes are independent and you can reboot the OS after an upgrade without affecting packet traffic. The emphasis is on reliability, resilience, configurability,. We have had DWDM systems running 5 years without incident using these backplanes. The TOAD-2 is looked back on here with affection, some of the original architects and engineers are still around, and memory systems and interfaces have been under continuous development and extension since TOAD-2 days. I am not sure if you used to work here you would recognize it now. Is still 36-bit,? Yes. Roy -- *Roy Hirst* | 425-556-5773 | 425-324-0941 cell XKL LLC | 12020 113th Ave NE, Suite 100 | Kirkland, WA 98034 | USA The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please e-mail the sender at the above e-mail address.

11 years, 8 months

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No such thing as

by ak6dn＠mindspring.com

-----Original Message----- >From: Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> >Sent: Dec 4, 2014 3:43 PM >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: No such thing as "the PDP" [was RE: Typesafety versus Worse is Better - was Re: Fwd: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?] > >On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Lyle Bickley <lbickley at bickleywest.com> wrote: >> "Dale H. Cook" <radiotest at juno.com> wrote: >>> Speaking of that pioneering machine, does anyone know if there are >>> any plans by the CHM to try to make the MIT engineering prototype >>> operable? I last saw it in use at MIT about 45 years ago, when it was >>> housed adjacent to the TX-0 and the two were being used for speech >>> synthesis experiments. From what I understand the operable machine on >>> display at the CHM is a later C production version. > >> There are no current plans to restore another PDP-1 at the CHM... > >Nor is it likely that restoration of the prototype will ever be done. >Restoring something that is mostly documented was a big challenge. >Restoring something that is mostly undocumented is close enough to >impossible that I doubt that those of us who were on the PDP-1 >restoration team would ever seriously consider it, nor would anyone >else sensible. > >CHM has a second production PDP-1 that would be a much better >restoration candidate if the world needed a second operational PDP-1, >which it doesn't. I used that PDP-1 at MIT in 1972 or so for the 6.273 programming course. Still have my class notebook, with all my programs printed out on the Flexowriter terminals. That PDP-1 was not a 'virgin' PDP-1 any more even then, it had features added by eager grad students. As indicated above the second / backup that CHM has would be a better choice to restore.

11 years, 8 months

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Random DEC Questions

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I just collected a nice little "haul" of DEC gear yesterday and have some questions: One of the things I got was an RA60 drive. But it doesn't have any packs. Does anyone in the UK have any RA60 packs they would be willing to part with? I also got a VT320, but it looks to be a 100-120V model. Is it possible to convert these easily to 220-240V? I discovered that there is a little MMJ to RJ45 adapter called a H8584. I know I can make cables that would remove the need for these, but they look quite handy. Anyone in the UK have any of these spare? I got a DECserver 900TM (see earlier thread about WWEN2.SYS). Manx has an installation manual on it, but not a detailed operations manual. I don't have the Flash RAM card which I guess is needed to persist the boot image without having to boot off the network. Does anyone know what kind of card it needs? I am told it is a CF card, but it looks like it needs some kind of holder to hold the card, and I don't know how the image would get onto the CF card, unless it does that itself after loading from the network. Regards Rob

11 years, 8 months

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Current Status

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

Does anyone know the status and current e-mail address for Daniel T. Burrows (of RSX-11 fame)?

11 years, 8 months

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A classic Trivia Question

by dpi＠dustyoldcomputers.com

In days of old when knights were bold and computers barely invented... In the PDP-8 PAL assembler what is the purpose of the following character sequence accomplish? *.+1%2^2 If you know the answer good for you! You get a gold star. Please don't blurt out the answer. Let people think about it a bit. I'll post the answer in a couple of days. I came up with this sequence this morning for use in an emulator I am working on. Doug Ingraham

11 years, 8 months

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No such thing as "the PDP" [was RE: Typesafety versus Worse is Better - was Re: Fwd: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?]

by RichA＠LivingComputerMuseum.org

From: Mark Wickens Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 12:47 AM > Has anyone considered whether it would be possible to port lua to the > PDP? You know, there never was (or only for a very short time) such a thing as "the PDP". DEC produced systems with 5 different architectures (or 4.5, if you lump the two 18-bit architectures together; I usually do) under the rubric "PDP-<small integer>": The PDP-1, the PDP-4/7/9/15, the PDP-5/8 family, the PDP-6/10 family, and the PDP-11 family. I would argue that only the original PDP-1 could rightly be called "the PDP", but even then, DEC had designed the 24-bit PDP-2 and the 36-bit PDP-3 which they did not build themselves, for a total of 7 architectures designated "PDP". Back when I was doing sales support for XKL, a lovely lady who did consulting in the oil industry advised me that we should be selling the Toad-1 in that market "because there are PDPs *everywhere* in the fields!" (Steps off soap box, walks away from Hyde Park.) (Hi, Mark! ;-) Rich Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer Living Computer Museum 2245 1st Avenue S Seattle, WA 98134 mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

11 years, 8 months

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Looking for: Corvus Concept parts

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Another one that's been on the back-burner for a long time. I have the main CPU unit, complete, but no monitor, keyboard or storage devices. Anyone out there have any of these lying around? Alternately, anyone looking for the main CPU unit to complete their system? Drop me a line... - Josh

11 years, 8 months

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Wanted: Twinax 5250 Style Terminal

by Kevin＠RawFedDogs.net

Classic Computer Enthusiasts, I should have an IBM 9406-270 arriving today or tomorrow. I think I've gathered everything I need to attempt an OS install except a console. I do have a second NIC that I've been told could be used for console access. But I suspect special console software would be required to do so, and all my PCs at home run Linux which would probably complicate things. I've also been told that when using a NIC for console access there are several gotchas to watch out for, such as a specific slot requirement for the NIC, etc. This being my first attempt at installing an OS on a 9406 anything that can be done to simplify the process and avoid having to worry about gotchas is probably a good thing. Plus, I like twinax terminals, especially the keyboards. So, does anyone have a suitable terminal in need of a good home? There are a few available from eBay, but I hate to pay more for a terminal than I did for the 270. I'll probably also need the multi-port twinax connector block that connects to the twinax card in the 270 if anyone has one to spare. There wasn't one listed in the eBay list for the 270, but I might get lucky and have it arrive with one included. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.

11 years, 8 months

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Scanning MACRO-11 Manual

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Johnny Billquist >> a copy of the "PDP-11 MACRO-11 Assembler Program Manual" >> (DEC-11-OMACA-A-D). > What do that manual contain? The PDP-11 MACRO-11 Language Reference > Manual is certainly online. (AA-KX10A-TC) That and a host of predecessors, going back to the "MACRO-11 Language Reference Manual", AA-5075A-TC, 1977-08: http://manx.classiccmp.org/details.php/1,5565 This one is fairly older; the date on it is April, 1972. Compared to the one above, this one is missing that one's Chapter 1 ("MACRO-11 Features"), this one has a different Chapter 1, "Fundamentals of Programming the PDP-11", covering topics like "Modular Programming", "Commenting PDP-11 Assembler Programs", "Localized Register Usage", "Conditional Assemblies", etc, etc. Past that, they seem to be pretty much the same, until you get to Chapter 8, "Operating Procedures", which is missing in the later one. This one has an Appendix D, "Listing of SYSMAC.SML" which is missing in the later one, which has an Appendix E, "Sample Coding Standard", which this one lacks. So not too many differences. Whether this is worth having online also, given that there are numerous later versions ... dunno. Opinions? Noel

11 years, 8 months

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Can you ID / document this RS-232 to Current Loop converter?

by drlegendre＠gmail.com

Hey gents, I tried the greenkeys list, but to no avail. So let's see who knows what around here... I recently acquired a pair of these RS-232 -to- CL converters. They are branded "ED&M" or possibly "EDeM" - but they seem to have been made by an outfit called Camiacs. They are marked Model V or Model 5. The circuit boards are marked "CAM 25-116A" in one corner. Photos can be seen here: https://nerp.net/~legendre/greenkeys/rs232_cl_converter_01.jpg https://nerp.net/~legendre/greenkeys/rs232_cl_converter_02.jpg Does anyone have documents for these units? They have several sets of internal jumpers, to configure various RS-232 parameters as well as passive / active states for the current loop side - Rx+ / Rx- Tx+ / Tx- etc. Any ideas? Any documents? Thanks in advance!

11 years, 8 months

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Fwd: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rich Alderson > The first non-PDP-10 port was written in MACLISP for Multics--a 36-bit > architecture!--by Bernie Greenberg Depends on what you define as 'EMACS'... :-) The PDP-11 TECO with real-time display mode which I was talking about earlier had, when in real-time mode, a command on every single control character, most of them the same as EMACS. (E.g. typing ^U^K would kill 4 lines, from the point onward.) And you could write custom code for it. (In TECO, no less!) But it didn't have the rich command set of EMACS (although as of that date, EMACS was still in a bit of flux - many people still had their own private macros/command sets - MOON's was famously different). According to: http://www.multicians.org/mepap.html (which is a very nice, complete, history of Multics Emacs, BTW), Multics Emacs didn't run until March, 1978; the PDP-11 real-time display TECO was running well before that. (We all used ITS some, for ARPANET email, etc, so we wanted the same kind of powerful editing tool.) Not that it really matters any more - just trying to be historically accurate! > From: Jerome H. Fine > Since the "Subject" specified "word processing software", I assumed > that would exclude TECO which I regard as a "text editor" Two words: 'topic drift'! :-) Hey, just responding to other messages (e.g. above). > From: Chuck Guzis > DIBOL. :) Hey, if you're running one of the later 11's, the ones with CIS, reputedly DIBOL runs _really fast_ on them! (Well, fast for an -11... :-) Noel

11 years, 8 months

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Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!

by drlegendre＠gmail.com

Thanks to the efforts of several members, my Osborne Vixen is up & running with a working display. But now the dang thing is begging me for a disc that I don't have.. =/ Could someone possibly send me some boot-media for this machine? As things sit, I don't even have a PC with a 5-1/4" drive installed, if (and that's +if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format. I've tried feeding it media for Epson & Kaypro CP/M machines, but no dice - it rejects them without a second seek. Anyone know how to handle this?

11 years, 8 months

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36bit still in use ?

by jacob＠dahl-pind.dk

Given the certain overlap of interests some of you might have seen this, please bare over with me. On the talk of copyright status on TOPS-10/20 on the hecnet maillist, it was hinted at tops-20 where used embedded for routers from XKL, running on reimplemnted pdp10 hardware. <qoute> Unfortunately I do not have much details. I was at the Living Computer Museum and talked with RIch Alderson, who used to work at XKL. And he showed me a newer generation router from XKL, opened up, at LCM. And they use a PDP-10 on a chip, and it was actually running TOPS-20, and I could play around at the EXEC level in there. </quote> Findes it somewhat hard to imagine anyone would take 36bit architectur and build a router around it. But it does seem posible they really do, I visisted ftp://xkl.com/pub/download/ tar xvf DarkStar_v3.0.0.tgz and looking in upgrade-example.txt I sees things as System Processor (XKL-2) 2. XMH-1 (256MW), Testing: SDdAa, on line at LPN o0 Reading 0704 pages 0704000 words read in 36 bit mode .. Its alive! who would have though that -- Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8

11 years, 8 months

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Scanning MACRO-11 Manual

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

So it turns out that I have a copy of the "PDP-11 MACRO-11 Assembler Program Manual" (DEC-11-OMACA-A-D). I see that Manx says no copies of this are online: http://manx.classiccmp.org/details.php/1,4416 Alas, I don't have a page-feeder scanner, and it looks to be well over 100 pages; a bit much to feed by hand. Anyone out there with such a scanner willing to scan it for us? (I want to hang onto the hardcopy, which is why I don't simply send it to Al.) Noel

11 years, 8 months

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rain.c

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote: > > > Tell us what you see when you use the C-preprocessor only on that file: > > gcc -E rain.c |less > > and then search in the output for setbuf: > > > float cols, lines; > > setbuf(__stdoutp,malloc(1024)); > if (!(term=getenv("TERM"))) { > ok, Holm, on OpenSolaris, gcc -E rain.c |less gives: float cols, cur_term-> _c3; setbuf((&__iob[1]),malloc(1024)); if (!(term=getenv("TERM"))) { I think that means it worked, right? --jake

11 years, 8 months

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Defeated by a Commodore 1950 Monitor

by nf6x＠nf6x.net

I have a Commodore 1950 monitor that came along with an Amiga 3000, and I think it has defeated me. Its failure mode is that there's no vertical scan; just a single, horizontal line. Vertical drive is still working, because I can shift the line up and down a bit using the vertical centering control, but whatever circuitry generates the vertical scan doesn't appear to be doing it. Trying to debug it has been challenging, even though I found a service manual online. The monitor appears to have been designed to be slapped together without much consideration of service accessibility, and the service manual does't describe the circuitry in much detail. It includes a block diagram, with no indication of which actual circuitry corresponds to which blocks. The schematic diagrams show connectivity between the parts, but don't identify the functionality of most of the ICs. I think I've narrowed down to one IC that's a likely candidate for the failed component, but it's still just an educated guess that it's even the IC responsible for generating the vertical scan. And it's a no-name IC with the monitor manufacturer's internal part number (IC401, with part number 56A326-1), so I don't think I'm likely to find a replacement for it unless I find another model 1950 with a different failure. I have an LCD monitor that I can use with the A3000, but the A3000 just doesn't look right with a flat panel on top of it. Now I wish I hadn't gotten rid of my old Viewsonic 17" CRT monitor all those years ago! I was sure happy to see it go at the time, but I failed to predict that I'd get interested in retrocomputing a decade later. So, I guess I'll just keep my eyes open for a suitable CRT monitor that I like for the A3000. Maybe some older Viewsonic monitor in the 13"-17" range? If anybody near southern California might be able to use my failed 1950 for parts, or has a 1950 with a different failure that they'd like to dump on me, please let me know! Even though I don't anticipate being able to fix it, I don't want to throw it away, in case parts appear or some other collector can make use of it. So, I'll stash its carcass away for the time being. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> http://www.nf6x.net/

11 years, 8 months

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Weird 8-inch floppy disk

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I found a ten-pack of 8-inch floppy disks that have me confused. They're >from STAM@, a name I've never heard of before. It's clear that they're hard-sectored, but the index and sector holes are along the outer edge. There's also a notch cut into the corner. Both of these appear to be done in an attempt to restrict users to a single vendor of floppies. Here are some pics: http://661.org/images/weird-floppy-front.jpg http://661.org/images/weird-floppy-back.jpg -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

11 years, 8 months

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Whitechapel Computer Works MG-1

by axelsson＠acc.umu.se

Hi! I just got the "Owner Operator Guide" manual for a MG-1 from a friend. I did some searches and found a picture on wikipedia in the article about Whitechapel Computer Works. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitechapel_Computer_Works ) I also found an evaluation of the MG-1 and several contemporary workstations... http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/acd/sus/perq_papers/perq_external/p003.… ... but then I drew a blank. It seems like these are really rare systems. Does anyone have a system? Anyone need the manual? The system could still be around so I'm going to dig around at the university a while to see if I can locate it. If Al wants a copy for bitsavers I'll scan it before letting it go. G?ran

11 years, 8 months

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3M "WhisperPrinter" (Trendcom 100) docs?

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Picked this up for nearly nothing at a local recycler, it was too cute to pass up. It's a 3M "WhisperPrinter" (model 1904AA), and it's a small (40 column, 4.5" wide) thermal printer with a serial interface. It appears to work (runs a self-test if you hold the line feed button while powering on) but I don't know what the pinout for the interface on the rear is (it's a 20-pin header). This looks to be a rebadged Trendcom 100 (which I can also find very little technical info about) used on a number of early home computers (Atari, TRS-80, PET). Anyone happen to have a manual for this? Thanks, Josh

11 years, 8 months

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Summary: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

I was seeking the "best" pdp11 prose text editing experience for typing in manuscripts, composing, letter writing, etc. (not programming language - that was just a side effect of some editors actually being programming languages in and of themselves). Since this is such a highly relative subject, I expected a slew of answers and got them (thanks, all!). While not part of the originally-intended scope, the conversation has inspired me to at least try composing in TeX, which I've sort of meant to do for years, but never got a round tuit. Sounds like it'll stay out of my way and allow me to just flow ideas and not even address layout until the end, which is, in essence, what I'm after. That said, I think the most convincing answer to my original question so far, not having actually reviewed them yet, is some kind of emacs, most likely Jove since it's already there in 2.xBSD and keeps me from having to mess with/re-learn other operating systems (oh, shoot!). As a side note, I used teco and edt back when pdp11s running DEC operating systems were still being phased out and found them to be unsatisfying; however, I do admit that I was an amateur at them. My other point here was to get the Diablo 630 going and have it type nice, letter-quality copy for me. Since my kid had a report due this morning, I caved and temporarily connected it to an old Sun machine and just threw lpd at it. Pretty straightforward: lpadmin -p diablo -v /dev/cua/b -o stty=300 -o banner=never enable diablo accept diablo So the thing's up and accepting jobs. Prints like a war zone :) !!! Once one of the '11s is up, on the net and stabilized, I'd like to have it take over this role as well. thx again for all the discussion around this & feel welcome to continue the thread! jake

11 years, 8 months

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List memberships and duplicates [was Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!]

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Peter Coghlan > 2) All cctech subscribers are experiencing it and very few find it a > problem. > or > 2) All cctech subscribers are experiencing it and there are very few > people subscribed to cctech! I rather suspect it's 2B... :-) > So, I subscribed to cctalk (with the same address I use for cctech > which on reflection may not have been a good idea) I think you've hit the nail on the head... > However, I have not started getting three copies of anything. > Everything is very much as before, one copy from from cctalk and > usually another some time later from cctech Possibly what's going on is that Mailman has noticed that it's trying to send that email address _two_ 'CCTalk' copies: one for your actual CCTalk subscription, and one for your pseudo-subscription (via CCTech). It thereupon automagically suppresses the second copy. > So what next? I get the feeling that if I unsubscribe from cctech, I > will stop receiving anything at all Nope, my guess is you'd wind up with one copy (from your 'real' CCTalk subscription). Go ahead and try it: you can make sure you don't miss anything by looking in the archive (which is how I read the list: I don't actually get _any_ copies... :-) Noel

11 years, 8 months

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Tandon TM-848E Normal Behavior?

by cctalk＠fahimi.net

Does anybody know if it is normal for a TM-848E to spin up for a few seconds after getting power and then stop spinning. The only other 8" drives I have experience with seem to start spinning when power is applied and keep spinning regardless of if the door is latched or if there is a disk in there. Thanks.

11 years, 8 months

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Nat Semi ns32k, was Re: Whitechapel Computer Works MG-1

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Steven M Jones > only to be pummeled by the emerging RISC designs... My (dim) recollection of the NS32K architecture (I recall someone came to MIT and gave a presentation on it, and I have an early architecture document - so old that it's called the NS16K!) was that it was very elegant, but my sense now, looking back, was that it was one of that wave of machines (the VAX being the other notable one) that went down the CISC road just before RISC arrived, and showed that CISC was not really the way to go; those systems were all dinosaurs. Which, in the NS16K/NS32K's case was unfortunate, because the architecture in other ways, i.e. at a high level (i.e. ignoring the instructions), was the best of the whole lot. Notably, it attempted to provide real segmentation support, perhaps the only chip of that group to do so. Although of course once Unix took over the world, that was irrelevant. (Much as I dearly love(d) V6 for how it got an incredible amount of power out of a very small machine, it's pretty clear that the basic approach of Unix was inferior to that of the single level store systems [e.g. Multics]; Unix really was - and in many ways remains - a toy operating system, considered >from a larger viewpoint.) Noel

11 years, 8 months

4
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rain.c

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

setbuf((&__iob[1]),malloc(1024)); if (!(term=getenv("TERM"))) { On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote: > Jacob Ritorto wrote: > > > Given the gloomy weather and speaking of porting, I just got bored and > > tried to compile /usr/src/games/rain.c from 2.11bsd on opensolaris using > > gcc3.44. It errored out with rain.c:61: error: parse error before '->' > > token. What's that all about? There's not even a pointer on that line: > > 61 float cols, lines; > > > > rain.c source here: > http://www.retro11.de/ouxr/211bsd/usr/src/games/rain.c > > > > Tell us what you see when you use the C-preprocessor only on that file: > > gcc -E rain.c |less > > and then search in the output for setbuf: > > > float cols, lines; > > setbuf(__stdoutp,malloc(1024)); > if (!(term=getenv("TERM"))) { > > > ..like this. > > This is FreeBSD here and you can see that setbuf handles a pointer.. > > Regards, > > Holm > -- > Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, > Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 > www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741 > >

11 years, 8 months

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Somebody in Portland should save this...

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

Ohio Scientific business unit: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/4776461141.html

11 years, 8 months

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IBM Series/1, PDP-11/84 potentially available in Oregon

by kd7bcy＠kd7bcy.com

I'm looking at clearing out my basement a little as my old computer interests and space requirements change and am considering getting rid of part or all of my Series/1 system. It has never been operational while I have had it, and was originally wired up for 240v operation - although the CPU and small tape drive were re-configurable to 120v by a jumper, and I did power them up together shortly after obtaining the system, but didn't have any OS or software to run on it. I have one IBM rack, which I am willing to part with if the whole system is going, otherwise all my network gear and newer servers are going into it(it's only 6' tall so it fits well in my basement. I have a 4967-K00 CPU, a 4968 tape drive, an unknown model Cipher tape drive(very large), one or two 4959 expansion units, maybe a broken 8" floppy drive if I still have it. I also have two terminals and a lot of cabling for them in unknown but presumably poor condition, currently coiled up in the back of the basement on the floor. I should also still have a decent pile of expansion cards, most of them communications, some of them disk controllers. And hopefully enough interconnect cabling to be useful. Now for the really ugly part - I do indeed have some binders with information on some of the units, and probably some stuff that isn't there, but we had a water leak a while back and some of it was water damaged. I put them aside but never had time to attempt anything with them. I do have a picture of part of the system and the rack... The Cipher is sitting under the 1U server at the bottom of the pic. And one of the terminals with keyboard is visible sitting on top of the PDP-11/84. They've both been buried in the basement behind storage boxes for a while. http://www.kd7bcy.com/images/comp/oldracks.jpg On a side note, the PDP-11/84 may also be available soon. It's pretty bare bones and will likely need at a minimum a disk drive and controller. I used to have a list of the cards that were installed but I can't find it right now. I have a disk drive of some kind in the garage currently, I think it's an 8" floppy drive but I haven't looked at it closely, and it is in poor shape. The CPU rack in the basement is decent, just a broken spot weld on the door hinge which makes it hang loosely. Similar story to the Series/1 - never got it operational, but it was powered on long ago when I obtained them during initial investigations and testing. Other than the drive that I picked up at a local surplus store I have nothing that goes with this, maybe an old DEC paperback book of some kind if I can find it. I'm tempted to put it on eBay after seeing the price the last one sold for, but would be happy to entertain offers from this group first(interesting trades are always welcome). I should have some random DEC boards of some kind laying around as well. I know I've posted about both of these systems in the past on this list, over a decade ago. I was hoping to get this one up and running in a meaningful way but just never had the time or money to put into it. The IBM is pretty much free to anyone who wants it, picked up at my house in Portland, Oregon, USA. Time frame is pretty loose, it's not like I need these out immediately, and it will probably take a couple of weeks to round everything up on weekends and get the cobwebs cleaned up, but I won't be sitting on these a terribly long time either. I imagine I will probably start dumping unwanted stuff by other means by late February. Parts are spread all over the place, so it may take a weekend or two to get everything together and moved up to the garage for pickup. I kinda like the rack, so if you don't need it I can keep it, or if you have a spare rack 38U or shorter to swap that would be great. If no one wants it, I will likely keep the CPU and tape drive in the rack and scrap the rest of it. The Cipher looked pretty generic, it may be able to hook up to other systems. If no interest in the whole package or it is unwanted I will make it available separately. If there is interest in one or more systems I will begin moving things to the garage and making a more accurate catalog of what is actually present and a better idea of the current condition of individual pieces. A bit of a wall of randomly wandering text, but there it is. Cleaning out the basement can be such a tedious job! tl;dr - PDP-11/84 and IBM Series/1 available in Portland, Oregon, local pickup required. ------------ John Rollins | KD7BCY | http://www.kd7bcy.com Ham-Mac mailing list http://mailman.qth.net ------------

11 years, 8 months

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SMD replacement options?

by earl＠baugh.org

An update on the SMD replacement options... Contacted someone at MBI (mbiusa.com) and they quoted $395 for drive... (I had asked them about a "modern replacement" for the Fujitsu drive in my Sun 1 drive assembly... what they quoted me back was an actual replacement Fujitsu drive... not sure if it's NOS or refurbished OS) Then I clarified my question and said "what's the price for the SMD emulator they had on their site... what I got back was : "The cost of the SMD emulator starts at approx $8500 per spindle, depending on the system spec and controller" (the other ones that I got a link to from a few folks on ebay start at $1500) So, that's a dead end. I can't believe someone hasn't built some sort of adapter from <Modern-Something>-to-SMD that isn't ridiculously priced... Earl the Squirrel

11 years, 8 months

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SWTPc computer lot currently on ebay...

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

Hi, Not going to bid on it myself, but if someone reading this should happen to win it, I have a fully functional Percom LFD-400 disk setup on my SWTPc. I would be happy to provide pointers, tips and measurements from my working system. Also, I would really like to get copies of the diskettes and documentation included in the lot. Thanks, Bill S.

11 years, 8 months

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KL-10B in DEC-20 [was RE: Who's rewired their house for this hobby?]

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Phil Budne > I think MIT-MC was a "1080" and only had RH10s. That sounds right. > I think they used a DL10 for PDP11 interfacing (including chaosnet and > some disks) I don't recall anymore, but I think there was only one -11 attached to the DL10 (couldn't they support up to 4?)? And yes, the Tridents (along with, IIRC, some serial lines, and the CHAOSNET) were attached to that -11. > and ran KLDCP (pre RSX20) on the console front end.... Yup. Although it had been hacked locally. After briefly glancing at the sources (see the KLDCP; directory, and IOELEV > in SYSTEM;), it was a real kludge; the IOELEV program ran in _both_ the DL10 -11, and the console -11. (In the latter case, along with KLDCP!!) There was some stuff attached to the console -11 too, apparently; a bunch of serial lines on DH11's. > ISTR a disk farm labeled "Moon's Laundromat" Yes, but I don't think that was on MC. I vaguely recall that it was on a bunch of drives which were mounted in vertical pairs, which must have been CalChomps, which I think must have been the original AI? (IIRC, both ML and DM had DEC RP drives.) Noel

11 years, 8 months

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IBM Series/1, PDP-11/84 potentially available in Oregon

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: John Rollins > I'm tempted to put it on eBay after seeing the price the last one sold > for If you're talking about the one that sold a couple of weeks back for $1K, note that that included a TM80 tape drive (the bulk of the value), and two 11/84s. By the time you deduct the value of the TM80, and the value of the boards which one could easily pull and sell separately (e.g. the CPU and memory, along with the TM80 controller), and the power supplies, the value of the rest works out to... -$0. Noel

11 years, 8 months

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bigger pdp11 terminals! (was: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?)

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

I want to do something like this to 2.11bsd's window(1) utility; possibly vi(1) too.. Window(1) dies with "Out of memory" if you increase the terminal geometry even a little bit. Anyone know how to go about embiggening this program? Would be great to connect a nice, big 132x66 xterm to 2.11bsd and split it all up! On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 9:51 PM, Jerome H. Fine <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote: > >Noel Chiappa wrote: > > [Snip] >> >> > There was also a TECO version available for the PDP-11's running >> RSTS/E >> > (and likely others) >> There was a 'visual TECO' running on the V6 Unix at MIT; that's what we >> used >> before the EMACS came along. I don't know the background of it, if it >> shares >> any history with the one you mentioned. >> >> From the (slim) manual I have for it, it seems to have had both TECO mode >>> >> (the usual TECO command interface, the stuff that looks like line noise), >> and >> a visual mode, just like primitive EMACS. (Probably only supported VT52's, >> though.) The latter mode had some built-in command keys, and there were >> also >> macro packages to extend it (again, just like primitive EMACS, although >> those >> for the PDP-11 Unix TECO were not as sophisticated). >> >> That's all almost certainly on the tape too, if anyone cares! :-) >> >> Since the "Subject" specified "word processing software", I assumed that > would exclude TECO which I regard as a "text editor" (although Johnny > strongly disagrees since his concept is a "line editor" - if I remember > correctly). > > In any case, since TECO has been mentioned, I believe that KED (a > screen editor - KEYBOARD EDITOR) which was produced by DEC > for the VT100 and other similar VDTs qualifies. KED has been distributed > with all versions of RT-11 at least since V04.00 in 1980. > > KED runs under both RT-11 and RSTS/E and will at least qualify as much > as TECO. The DEC variants are limited to 24 lines by 80 columns along > with 24 lines by 132 columns if a VT100 is being used with the AVO > hardware. MACROs are supported, so some extensive editing can be > accomplished. Auxiliary input and output files are also supported. But, > note that KED is a screen editor without the sort of things that a word > processor is likely to have. What you see is what you get. > > Ersatz-11, the PDP-11 emulator by John Wilson of Dbit, now supports > screens up to 255 lines by 255 columns, although in practice, no Windows > system can properly support those values. On my Windows XP system, > the video card and monitor support up to about 50 lines by 200 columns. > > As a enhancement to KED, I added code which runs under RT-11 and > RSTS/E which also supports up to 255 lines by 255 columns - BUT not > at the same time since the screen buffer MUST be large enough to hold > all of the characters on the screen. Since the actual maximum useful > screen > sizes are about 50 lines by 120 columns and 50 lines by 198 columns (for > a maximum screen buffer of 9900 characters), I use KED under RT-11 > running under Ersatz-11. With my current video card and monitor, I have > chosen to use FULL SCREEN mode which is supported at 50 lines by > 80 columns and 44 lines by 132 columns. The extra 20 lines available when > I inspect a MACRO-11 output listing are extremely helpful. > > Jerome Fine >

11 years, 8 months

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M1705 dual 12-bit output info

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Kyle Owen > The block diagram in the Logic Handbook shows a few select jumpers, but > does not give a detailed list of the 32 jumpers, if I counted correctly. Yeah, I noticed that; there were no jumpers shown for the device code. I can only assume that they are similar to the device code jumpers for the M1703. If so, that would be 24 jumpers right there. (It's '24' because the M1705 includes two completely separate devices, which can apparently be given device codes independently.) If so, that would be all of them - the block diagram shows 8; 24 for device codes; total 32. Odd the way they use separate jumpers for 1 and 0; why not one jumper with a pull-up/down? Noel

11 years, 8 months

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is there any word processing software for the pdp11?

by tiggerlasv＠aim.com

On Nov 30, 2014, at 5:43 PM, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote: > On 30/11/14 8:16 PM, Jacob Ritorto wrote: >> or, if not, anyone feel like helping me port a contemporary line printer >> daemon to 2.11bsd? >> Best I can find is LEX-11, on TSX-Plus. >> Surprised Wordstar wasn't ported. :)> > --Toby I am both shocked and appalled that no one mentioned VTEDIT, which comes standard with RSTS/E . . . .

11 years, 8 months

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System/3 on Ebay - How much isit really worth?

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

So to continue the discussion, how much would these be worth as scrap in the USA? http://www.ebay.com/itm/151491089302 The asking price of $5k seems a tad high to me, so I can see it going to the crusher. Dave Wade G4UGM

11 years, 8 months

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Still Alive?

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

Still Alive - Test - Please do not respond!!!!!!!!!!!!

11 years, 8 months

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M1705 dual 12-bit output info

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Kyle Owen > I've got a couple M1705 dual 12-bit output cards for the Omnibus. Does > anyone have schematics or programming information available? I checked > bitsavers, but I didn't see anything in the obvious places They're in the DEC Logic Handbook; in the 1976-77 edition, they are on pp. 227-231. If you can't find it online, Topline has one for sale cheap: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321490489267 If you really need it right away, I suppose I could crunch the book into my scanner and scan those pages. Noel

11 years, 8 months

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Cyber ECL Wiring

by bpettitx＠comcast.net

Chuck Guzis wrote: "It didn't start with the 170, did it Billy? I remember a nice thick mat of twisted-pair wires on the backplanes of 6000s, as well as in a lot of attached controllers. Taper pin technology." You're right - the 170 was the first use of main frame wire wrap at CDC. I've never seen any other machine that used twisted pair wire wrap. When I left the project, they were trying to defelop a machine to automate the wiring. It was not going well. The earlier 6000, 7000 machines used twited pair with taper pins. Their wire mats were huge, more than 10 inches thick in some places. That was one of the problems they were trying to solve. Billy

11 years, 8 months

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Fwd: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jacob Ritorto > I just got my Diablo 630 running and would like to couple it to one of > my pdp11s and an appropriate terminal to do more "inspired" writing and > correspondence. .. I sometimes get bored typing on these relatively > snazzy computers we have these days and wish to go back to the way > things were. Ah, got it. I don't know if (on the Unix path) nroff is any good for you; with a good macro package (pretty much essential; raw roff/troff is kind of like raw TEX), it's pretty easy to use. The thing is that 'back in the day', the whole 'WYSIWYG' editing model didn't exist until Bravo on the Alto. (At least, not that I know of - if anyone does know of such, I would love to hear of it.) Except for plain ASCII files, of course... So I'm not sure that if you're looking for 'text mode WYSIWYG', you'll be able to find much. > From: Warner Losh > There was also a TECO version available for the PDP-11's running RSTS/E > (and likely others) There was a 'visual TECO' running on the V6 Unix at MIT; that's what we used before the EMACS came along. I don't know the background of it, if it shares any history with the one you mentioned. >From the (slim) manual I have for it, it seems to have had both TECO mode (the usual TECO command interface, the stuff that looks like line noise), and a visual mode, just like primitive EMACS. (Probably only supported VT52's, though.) The latter mode had some built-in command keys, and there were also macro packages to extend it (again, just like primitive EMACS, although those for the PDP-11 Unix TECO were not as sophisticated). That's all almost certainly on the tape too, if anyone cares! :-) Noel

11 years, 8 months

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M1705 dual 12-bit output info

by kylevowen＠gmail.com

I've got a couple M1705 dual 12-bit output cards for the Omnibus. Does anyone have schematics or programming information available? I checked bitsavers, but I didn't see anything in the obvious places, and without an option number (like DR8-E for the dual 12-bit I/O card, M863), it makes searching a bit more difficult. I'm hoping to have this controlling my Christmas tree lights this year if I can get something working. It has quite a number of jumpers, and although I can deduce a few must be addressing, I don't know what the others might be for. Any help would be appreciated! Kyle W4GNU

11 years, 8 months

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VAX/VMS Software Source Book, 6th Edition (Oct 1990) PDF, Programming in VAX Fortran PDF

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

I've just scanned the 1000-odd page software source book for VAX/VMS, 6th Edition from October 1990, available from my scans page: http://wickensonline.co.uk/app/index.html#/scans This is a mammoth book (beware the 643MB download size!) but is a fantastic example of just how pervasive VAX and VMS were. It contains a comprehensive listing of software available for the platform both from DEC and independent software houses. Interesting personally is the indication of programming language used. I've also uploaded Programming in VAX Fortran (Sept 84): I wasn't aware of an online copy of this manual. It's a very handy guide to programming in Fortran that covers everything you'd need to get up and running with the language under VAX/VMS, including the use of EDIT, compiling, linking and debugging, as well as reference material on the language and supporting libraries. Enjoy, Mark.

11 years, 8 months

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IC storage / anti-static foam

by bob＠theadamsons.co.uk

> I know this was discussed before but.... > > What are recommended methods for storing a variety of ICs where they > are easily accessible as needed, keeps them safe and for the long term? > Tubes are good if you can find them in any quantity now though they aren't so handy if like most folk you have a largish mix with only small numbers of each. I have a cabinet with antistatic plastic drawers for my MOS ICs and some of the bipolar with the rest of the bipolar in an ordinary styrene drawer cabinet. In my earlier days in the MOS industry before more specialised antistatic stuff became available we used to push them into a sheet of polystyrene wrapped with foil.

11 years, 8 months

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Problem with DEC LSI11 / KD11-F

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mattis Lind > I checked all three M7270 modules I have here. ... I have, Rev. E, Rev. > H and Rev. K > ... All has date codes in the range 77-80. I expect your boards to be > later revisions. No (I think); mine are both K, too. One says "130 K" (that's the one with the slightly earlier chips); the other says "140 K". Anyone know what the numbers mean? Noel

11 years, 8 months

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Nat Semi ns32k, was Re: Whitechapel Computer Works MG-1

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> Eric Smith spacewar at gmail.com > Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I was pretty sure that the first UTek machine > was the 4404 "Artificial Intelligence Workstation", introduced in 1974. > The 4404 was MC68010 based There's also the TI Explorer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI_Explorer a LISP machine (custom CPU); not sure of the exact date, but it was around then. Noel

11 years, 8 months

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EDSAC lives

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: William Donzelli > Building a complete ENIAC replica would indeed be hard. If only exact > proper NOS parts were used, I might just say impossible. One other component I didn't see listed: rotary switches. ENIAC used tons of them, originally for inputting static data (think ROM :-), and later to hold tables used when they converted it to a sorta-stored-program machine (think uROM :-). And what about the special plug wires (and the male and female connectors used thereon) which were used to 'program' the machine for a given problem - are those still available? Noel

11 years, 8 months

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Fwd: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

>> Jacob Ritorto wrote: >> Yeah, but troff is too hard. I'm going to pass over the obvious question ('why would anybody be doing word processing on a PDP-11 in this day and age' :-), and ask if nroff is also too hard? Since it's only intended for character devices (line printers, etc) it's not quite as complex as troff.a I'm not sure if Bell had anything simpler; I'll have to look at my V6 Unix manual set. > From: Ian S. King > But ... Emacs (originally EMACS, "eight megabytes and continuously > swapping") .. is ever going to run on a PDP-11. If you restrict yourself to GNU Emacs, yes. But there are more implementations of EMACS in the world than that bloated monstrosity! We ran an EMACS on V6 Unix at MIT, I forget who wrote it, I think it was someone at BBN; it was quite a nice one. It was quite customizable (but that have only been key bindings and settings, not sure if it included code), and it had all the usual features: multiple buffers and windows, etc. (In fact, it was so painful to use on a VT52, with its small screen, that I migrated to a Ann Arbor Ambassador terminal, with its much large screen, as soon as it became available.) I have several sets of backup tapes from one of the V6 machines at MIT; I sent one off to Chuck Guzis, and he's gotten almost all the bits off of it (a few records had unrecoverable read errors, but the vast majority were OK - like roughly 15 read errors in around 1500 records). I hope to annouce a vast trove of stuff soon from my tapes (once I figure out how to interpret the bits - they are written by a sui generis application called 'saveRVD', and the _only_ documentation of how it did it is... on that tape! :-) That includes a lot of code written at MIT, as well as stuff from elsewhere. Coming soon, in addition to that EMACS, should be BCPL, Algol, LISP and some other languages; MACRO-11 and the DEC linker (which I guess are also available from UNSW tapes), but _also_ programs to convert back and forth >from .REL to a.out format, and to .LDA format; and a whole ton of other applications (I have no idea what all is there - if anyone is interested, I can make a pass through my manuals and try and make a list). Noel

11 years, 8 months

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HP owners - BOUNTY

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Reposting, I'm a little worried these do not exist anymore. I've already tried every reseller on the planet. Generous Bounty for any of the following: HP 12920B Asynchronous Multiplexer : 12920-60001 Upper Select Code Data Board 12920-60002 Lower Select Code Data Board 12922-60001 Control Board Or HP 12920A Asynchronous Multiplexer: 12921-60001 Upper Select Code Data Board 12921-60002 Lower Select Code Data Board 12922-60001 Control Board Even single boards of any of the above would be a big help. Best, J

11 years, 8 months

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EDSAC lives

by hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca

So, we have the ABC, Colossus, Manchester Baby, and now the EDSAC. Anyone for the ENIAC? Univac I? IAS machine? Whirlwind? How come 3 of the 4 are in Britain? On 2014-Nov-29, at 9:12 PM, John Foust wrote: > The National Museum of Computing unveils EDSAC re-creation: > > http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30131447

11 years, 8 months

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Who's rewired their house for this hobby?

by kspt.tor＠gmail.com

On 24 November 2014 at 22:40, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote: > I understand that it will be very expensive to change such a "naturally > grown" infrastructure and this is that cause that I wrote that the US > should have changed this long before nowi, where it is really to late to do > that. [upgrading (the US) infrastructure] But I'm wondering about Japan. As was mentioned by someone else earlier, their's an example of how it shouldn't be done. However, as part of that they already have a mix (so they're kind of used to that) of 50Hz and 60Hz depending on where you live.. and they use US (or as close as doesn't matter) plugs. At 100V. The whole system is quite frustrating, and scary to look at as well. Rickety-rackety. Reminds me of underdimensioned old 6V car wiring, with much of the same problems (dimming, heat..). So what I was thinking is that it should, in principle, be possible for Japan to introduce 230V in new areas (and new areas are built constantly), with European plugs not only to make it safer but also to clearly make the distinction. That's something that I believe could work in Japan, people tend to pay attention. I'm not so sure it would work anywhere else. That's something I would like to see. Not only because of my old linear transformer computer gear.. or the impossibility to use my favourite bread machine (doesn't come with an 100V AC motor). 100V isn't particularly energy efficient when it comes to distribution, and Japan needs to become much, much more energy efficient. > Here in germany 1 phase power lines simply don't exist. The entire > infrastructure is build with 3 phases and the phase balancing is made on > every distribution paneel in every house. This is why it isn't a big > problem to get a 3 phase outlet installed somewhere you need it. > Most cables are in the ground, but on the other end of my village here > (1km distance to the next city) there are some overhead lines with at least > two transformers on masts that distribute 3x400V to groups of houses. [3phase] Same in Norway (I'm traveling between Norway and Japan so experience both). Or at least in my town. The whole electricity infrastructure was reworked completely for all of the town some years ago. Everything moved from poles to sub-ground cabling, and 400V 3phase to every house, and taken from there. New houses and old ones are done a bit differently internally though.

11 years, 8 months

16
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foam in DEC SBB drives, ok to remove?

by nw＠retroComputingTasmania.com

I have some of these DEC SBB module drives, but the foam has gone crumbly, wondering if it is ok to remove the foam and operate without it? http://images.esellerpro.com/2131/I/842/7/100_2665.JPG

11 years, 8 months

12
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Dataproducts B600 help needed

by b4＠gewt.net

Hey, Does anyone have an operator's guide? I found this as a manual http://www.wang2200.org/docs/fiche/742-0432.MNL.2273LinePrinterMaintenance.… which will likely help me fix the board that has the "Bad timing clock" note (covering ICs, not an xtal). It does not however at a quick glance explain what it means that mine just displays "22" as the status. Any ideas? -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

11 years, 8 months

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is there any work processing software for the pdp11?

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

or, if not, anyone feel like helping me port a contemporary line printer daemon to 2.11bsd? --jake

11 years, 8 months

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Backplane Wiring - Was: Cyber ECL Wiring

by rickb＠bensene.com

Brent H. wrote: > Would that be these?: > > http://www3.telus.net/~bhilpert/tmp/HP2116C/crimps.jpg > http://www3.telus.net/~bhilpert/tmp/HP2116C/backplane.jpg > An almost identical system was used for the backplane wiring on many Wang Laboratories electronic calculators, from the earliest machines (LOCI) through the last of the "large form factor" machines (Wang 500/600/700) calculators. Later machines (100, 400 and C-Series) had much higher levels of integration, which required a lot fewer backplane interconnects, and thus printed circuit backplanes could be used. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com

11 years, 8 months

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FS: HP 9000 and DEC Alpha machines

by linimon＠lonesome.com

[fwiw, is there a better place for FS/Wanted listings? If there's not some kind of 'commerce' site, should we set one up?] As most of you know, I work for a company that decommisions data centers and resells the equipment (usually eBay but sometimes directly). There are a few things in the triage queue that might be of interest to the list members. If there is interest, I'll approach my boss, otherwise they'll be processed as usual. By default we check eBay for the value before listing anything. At the very least we value it at scrap value. And no, I can't take anything out the back door for cheap :-) They're in business to make money. These will all sell without the hard drives per our contracts with our customers. As for the HP and IBM, I have not yet climbed back all the way into the triage area to get more details. The desktops are accessible to me. Of course all of these are listed subject to prior sale. Reply-To set to me personally, but if you have comments e.g. about appropriateness, please feel free to redirect to the list. I'm a big boy, I can take it :-) mcl 3 * Vaxstation 4000 60 (desktop) 1 * Dec 3000 (desktop) 1 * IBM 3490 EC22 (19" rack full) 1 * HP 9000 Model K360 K-Class 9000 (19" rack full) 5 * Digital Personal Workstation 500au (desktop) 2 * Digital Personal Workstation 600a (desktop) 2 * Compaq XP1000 (desktop, appear similar to above)

11 years, 8 months

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Seeking the following items

by slandon110＠gmail.com

Hey guys i know its a shot in the dark, But im looking for the following for my old high school machine. NEC MultiSync 3D monitor OmniKey AT Keyboard Logitech Mouseman 3 Button Mouse Thanks again

11 years, 8 months

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Problem with DEC LSI11 / KD11-F

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mattis Lind > The M7270 board has the following chips: > 1611H 21-15579 > 3007D 23-002B5 > 3010D 23-001B5 > 2007C 23-002C4 I have two M7270s (haven't checked to see if either one works, yet - need a working chassis with an 18-bit backplane, too lazy/busy to pull the removable terminations on my working Sigma Q22). One has: 1611H 21-16890-00 3007D 23-007B5-00 3010D 23-008B5-00 2007C 23-003C4-00 which is fairly different from yours; the date codes range from 8018 to 8021 on the uROMs, and 8029 on the ALU. 1611H 21-16890-00 3007D 23-007B5-00 3010D 23-001B5 2007C 23-002C4-00 which is intermediate between yours, and my first one (but does seem to indicate that to some degree, these things could be mixed, they aren't matched sets). The date codes from the ROMs are 8026, 8041 and 8126, and 8031 on the ALU (so the 002 2007C is later than the 003...) Noel

11 years, 8 months

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FTGH: 2 Sun 280R machines, etc. (Austin, TX)

by linimon＠lonesome.com

These are my personal machines. There is just no more room in the rack for everything I have now. Plus, I would really like to be able to get to the exercise machine again :-) These are 4U dual-processor machines, I think 933MHz each and 4G RAM each. If it really matters I can fire them up and go check. They were both working when last powered on a couple of years ago. (fwiw, the company I work for routinely scraps these, as no one wants to pay for shipping, so I know they're not worth much.) And, if you don't want to run code on them, I will note they make fantastic room-heaters :-) They are known to run FreeBSD. I also have some other stuff that is going to scrap unless someone really wants it. And by "stuff" I mean "junk". 3-4 Sun Netra T1 105s, maybe working, maybe not 2 HP DL360 32-bit machines, actually I have already pulled the pieces, but just in case ... several caddies and blanks for the above 3 Dell PowereEdge 2550s. Dual P-III 933MHz. I have caddies. These are free for anyone who wants them. I can deliver in the Austin area -- but, my car can only hold 4U at one time so if you want more than that you will have to come get it. I will hold on to the Suns for a bit, but the rest I'd rather scrap in the next week or so. mcl

11 years, 8 months

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Pinout of VAXstation 4000 Power Connector

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I got a VAXstation 4000 Model 96 yesterday. Before I switch it on I want to test the PSU (H7819) on its own, check it for ripple etc. However, I can't find the pinout of the power connector. I don't want to switch it on with no load, to try to work out the pinout. Does anyone have this information? Regards Rob

11 years, 8 months

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Problem with DEC LSI11 / KD11-F

by mattislind＠gmail.com

I have been browsing through some of my old Qbus boards and found one KD11-F (M7264) CPU with 4 k word memory, a couple of KD11-HA (M7270) , a KDF11-A (M8186) and some assorted memory boards and some SLUs. All CPUs seemed to work except for the KD11-F board, which was a bit sad since that was the original LSI-11 board. I looked at bitsavers for schematics. Indeed there was one, but my board revision seems to be older. It is not matching layout wise and it has plenty of patches. Is there a print set for the older revision of the board? Well, I am not giving up that easy. The clock signal was there so I attached the logic analyzer over the control chip and was able to find out the micro address (sampled at falling PH2 clock) and data (sampled at falling PH1 clock). The strange thing was that it was not starting at address 1. It starts of at 89 hex, then steps to 8A and then to 39D. The data returned is FFFF, FFFF and 708A (forever). FFFF is supposed by NOP. 708A is also some other valid micro instruction. (according to the EK-KUV11-TM_LSI11_WCS.pdf <http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/dec/pdp11/1103/EK-KUV11-TM_LSI11_WCS…> ) Is the micro code source / dump for the LSI-11 available somewhere? If I remove one of the MICROMs it starts at 1 and goes on 2,3,4,5,6, etc. My guess is that one of the MICROMs are bad, forcing some bits low. Or maybe the strange precharging isn't working? Now, I have several M7270. I could sacrifice one board to get the other working. But are the chips identical? The markings on the chips are not identical. The M7264 board has the following chips: CP1611B-51 2111549 CP1621B451 23001C201 CP1631B-10 23088A501 CP1631B-07 23087A501 The M7270 board has the following chips: 1611H 21-15579 3007D 23-002B5 3010D 23-001B5 2007C 23-002C4 Is there a engineering drawing printset for the M7270 (KD11-HA) somewhere? /Mattis

11 years, 8 months

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AT&T 3B2 information

by lists＠loomcom.com

Folks, For some reason I got it in my head that writing an AT&T 3B2 emulator might be a good idea. That idea has pretty much been derailed by lack of documentation. I have been unable to find any detailed technical description of any 3B2 systems. Visual inspection of a 3B2 300 main board reveals the following major components: - WE32100 CPU - WE32101 MMU - 4 x D2764A EPROM - TMS2797NL floppy disk controller - PD7261A hard disk controller - SCN2681A dual UART - AM9517A Multimode DMA Controller How these are addressed is anybody's guess. To even dream of doing an emulator, I at least need to know the system memory map -- what physical addresses these devices map to. Without that it's pretty pointless to get started. If anyone has access to this kind of information, please drop me a line. Otherwise, I'll just put this one on the far-back burner! -Seth

11 years, 8 months

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Relay question

by cctech＠beyondthepale.ie

On 28/11/2014 at 02:23, Jim Brain wrote: > I know this is not an electrical forum, but I thought perhaps someone > has seen what I am looking for. > > For an application, I am looking for a relay that is connected to 12V > through a switch, with the switch voltage also going to the middle of > a SPDT relay contacts. > > * If I energize the latch once, for the time the button in pressed, > the relay flips "on" and the middle relay contact sends power to the > NO contact > * If the energize the latch a second time, for the time the button is > pressed, the relay flips "off" and the middle relay contact sends > power to the NC contact. > > The circuit works with an open relay of the kind they used to use in > garage doors (push button once, and door goes up, second press makes > it go down...) But, we need a sealed relay to beat the weather (it's > for a lineman's bucket truck we own). > > Simulating this with some electronics and two relays won't work (well, > it would work, but it's for my father, and he really wants a > electrical/mechanical relay solution, like he has, but weathertight). > > I thought for sure there was such a thing as a D-type FF in relay > format, but all of the magnetic and mechanical latching relays I see > online use two separate coils to operate, which means two switches, > and that won't work (no more signal paths available in this application). > > I must not know what to call what I am looking for, and was hoping > someone had a better name for this type of thing or a suggestion of > where to look... > > Jim > I have come across a relay like this controlling the door of a bus. One push to make switch, push once to open, push once to close. The bus schematics called it an "impulse relay". This is East of the Atlantic - who knows if they they call it the same thing where you are. The one I came across was 24V rather that 12V too. (There were no classic computer systems on the bus, unless you count the radio system which allegedly tracked the bus location and radioed it back to the controller. It counted pulses from the speedometer/odometer tachogenerator and did 4 bit BCD arithmatic on them using 4000 series CMOS.) Regards, Peter Coghlan.

11 years, 8 months

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facit 4042

by rachael＠telefisk.org

Does anyone happen the manuel for the facit 4042 punch/reader prod 9280 3111, looks a bit like the 4047 but is has no display/keyboard, and turned 90degres. Has two IEEE-488 connectors, one of which is on an expansion board with dip switchs to set addres. -- Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8

11 years, 8 months

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DEC document AA-L619A-TK

by mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG

I went looking for MSCP docs and found a PDF holding scans of a copy of version 1.2 (April, 1982) of DEC document AA-L619A-TK ("MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual"). It had some of what I wanted. I've now done a conversion to text and manually checked and cleaned up the result. But I'm not sure whom to offer the resulting text file to. I don't know where I got the PDF; my notes give http://vt100.net/tmp/l619atk.pdf and http://www.microvax.org/awx/computers/VAXen/l619atk.pdf as places, but neither of those is accessible now - vt100.net returns an "I'm moving, stuff may be offline" page, and www.microvax.org gives ETIMEDOUT. And my wetware memory doesn't help me any. Anyone want a copy, or care to suggest where I should mail it? /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

11 years, 8 months

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AT&T 3B2 ROMs?

by lists＠loomcom.com

All, Does anybody have binary or hex dumps of the (E)PROMs from any AT&T 3B2 variant? I would be very interested in examining them if you do. I'm looking especially for any (E)PROMs from the 3B2 Model 400 or the 3B2 Model 600, but frankly I'd be happy to get all and any I can find. -Seth

11 years, 8 months

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Relay question

by brain＠jbrain.com

I know this is not an electrical forum, but I thought perhaps someone has seen what I am looking for. For an application, I am looking for a relay that is connected to 12V through a switch, with the switch voltage also going to the middle of a SPDT relay contacts. * If I energize the latch once, for the time the button in pressed, the relay flips "on" and the middle relay contact sends power to the NO contact * If the energize the latch a second time, for the time the button is pressed, the relay flips "off" and the middle relay contact sends power to the NC contact. The circuit works with an open relay of the kind they used to use in garage doors (push button once, and door goes up, second press makes it go down...) But, we need a sealed relay to beat the weather (it's for a lineman's bucket truck we own). Simulating this with some electronics and two relays won't work (well, it would work, but it's for my father, and he really wants a electrical/mechanical relay solution, like he has, but weathertight). I thought for sure there was such a thing as a D-type FF in relay format, but all of the magnetic and mechanical latching relays I see online use two separate coils to operate, which means two switches, and that won't work (no more signal paths available in this application). I must not know what to call what I am looking for, and was hoping someone had a better name for this type of thing or a suggestion of where to look... Jim -- Jim Brain brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com

11 years, 8 months

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Facit 4046/4047 Reader-Punch Manual Available

by kylevowen＠gmail.com

I scanned in my two manuals for the Facit 4046/4047 that I have and gave them to Al at bitsavers. He got them uploaded the other day (thanks again, Al!), so feel free to check them out. Setting up this reader-punch without it is a big pain (I've tried). http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/facit/ Enjoy, Kyle W4GNU

11 years, 8 months

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KL-10B in DEC-20 [was RE: Who's rewired their house for this hobby?]

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rich Alderson > We have a non-running 1090 here at the museum Oh, good, then you have a machine to run ITS on (along with ones for WAITS and Tops-10! :-) Just kidding (mostly); ITS did run on a KL (without hardware mods), but I'm not sure which model it was; it was a pretty early one. I know it had the external memory bus, and I _think_ it had the RH20s (I know it had RP's of some kind, I think MassBus, because one of them was dual-ported and the console 11 booted off of it, and I don't think it had whatever PDP-10 disk controller the KA's had). I guess it was a KL-B, then? Whichever one it was, anyone who wanted to run ITS on a KL would probably want the same model - I know ITS had custom microcode (in part to emulate the MIT pager, which had a different page size from the BBN/DEC one, and also because ITS used some custom instructions which had been added to the KA's), and although one could probably get that to run on a different model KL, it might be (an unknown amount of) work. But, completely seriously, ITS is an amazing system, and although there are a few running on simulators, I'm not sure anyone has it running on real hardware. That would be Very Cool. Noel

11 years, 8 months

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Apple Network Server, Anyone seen one?

by alexmcwhirter＠mojovapes.net

This were produced by apple in the mid 90?s. The ran AIX and were pretty large machines. I?ve been looking for one for a couple of months to no avail. Considering they were only produced for a year should i assume that they have all be crushed?

11 years, 8 months

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IBM RT - AOS / SAUTIL

by jonathan.chote＠gmail.com

Hey everyone, I've seen a few topics on here in the past regarding the IBM RT, so thought I'd ask around here. I'm installing a new ESDI drive in my 6150 Model 135. I've mostly been researching the old Usenet group and the FAQ to work bits out but now I've become stuck. It seems the fail-safe trick to getting non-IBM ESDI units working is to perform a blind format using the AOS SAUTIL disk. Does anybody have access to this disk or disk image or know where I can find one? My AIX 2.2.1 / VRM disk returns "I/O error writing configuration record" during format which I believe is because the drive needs to be cleared. IBM PC RT Diagnostics won't recognize a drive and format until it has the configuration record. Any help tracking down that SAUTIL disk or assistance would be much appreciated. Thanks! Jonathan

11 years, 8 months

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Cyber ECL Wiring

by bpettitx＠comcast.net

Eric Smith wrote: "Another approach is to use single-ended on a module, but only differential between modules. To do it properly, the differential signals between modules need to be twisted pairs." You are correct. Eric, have you seen a Cyber 170 chassis? There is no back plane. Every signal uses twisted pair wire wrap from module to module. It was horrible to build, wire mats inches thick. We used to allow field engineers 10 minutes per signal line for engineering change orders. Provided, the line did not need to be tuned. Tuning was done by changing wire length. It was not elegant by later standards but was very very fast for the era. One of the downsides to using differential wiring throughout the system was the manufacturing time measured in months. Of course, they sold for millions or tens of millions of dollars so it was worth this approach. At the time, early 1970's, there was not a lot LSI available in ECL. So most of the Cyber series, and early Crays used SSI. Chip count was never as important as speed. The one MSI that I remember being critical was the 10181, an ALU chip. To use it and keep signal lengths short, the arithemetic chassis was laid out with the ALUs in the middle and the registers around them in a circle. The carry tree was at the center of design. Internally, word size was a bastard mix of 60 and 64 bits. The higher performance models were a mixture of discrete modules from the 7600 and ECL modules from the Cyber 173. It's hard to visualise with today's technology. The multiply unit took an entire chassis! Memory took multiple chassis. All I/O cables and interchassis cables were differential tuned cables. All I/O had to use the same length cables. As Chuck mentioned, 400 Hz MGs provided the power. It was distributed to the chassis where the diodes were mounted in alunimum bars, cooled by freon. If you get a chance sometime, look at the Cray-1. The part where you sit is all power components. The circular logic chassis was primarily to keep wire length short. Seymour tried to build it using an absolute minimum of chip types, only two for much of the logic. He felt that MSI and LSI stole speed from his design. Billy Pettit

11 years, 8 months

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Apple IIe/GBBSPro v1.3/MSS100 help

by tpresence＠hotmail.com

Hey guys,I've been working on trying to get an internet based BBS setup on my apple IIe.I have GBBSPro 1.3 running on the IIe using a super serial card in slot 2, switched to run at 2400BPS. I have the modem set to external, and the modem type is "Hayes Smartmodem 2400".I am using a straight through 25M-25F between the MSS100 and the super serial card. The ssc selector block is pointing to "terminal". There is no null modem in the setup.The MSS100 is accepting remote connections, and the serial port is also at 2400BPS N81. The settings for Access: remote, DSR logout, DTR wait, and Modem Emulation are checked. I have tried all flow control options and none.When I telnet to the remote access port (2001 or 3001) it connects but immediately disconnects. Once in a while I see an modem initialization string on the terminal before it closes. The string is "ATX3S0=1&C1&D2S2=128". I understand what the init string does, but I'm not sure if its coming from the MSS100 or from the BBS. During this period, the bbs is just sitting at the "waiting for call" screen.If I turn off DSR logout, I do not get disconnected, but I'm not connected to the bbs.Anyone have any experience with this? Are there any settings that must be changed?Thanks in advance,Kevin? 2014 MicrosoftTermsPrivacy & cookiesDevelopersEnglish (United States)

11 years, 8 months

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SMD replacement options?

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

http://www.mbiusa.com/mbi_000010.htm

11 years, 8 months

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Who's rewired their house for this hobby?

by bpettitx＠comcast.net

Will wrote: "On the other hand, ECL does not suffer from the spikes, burps and farts TTL tends to make. Late model Cybers tend to have very little in the way of filtering, simply because the ECL load is "nice"." ECL, if done properly, uses a terminator on every signal line. On MECL it is usually it's 560 ohms to -5.2v or 220 ohms to -2.2 volts. Because most circuits have two ouputs, signal and not signal, termination gives you almost a steady load. This termination and balanced lines gave the Cybers very fast signal propagation with little noise like Will mentions. And it requres a lot less regulation and filtering requiremets for the power supplies. It was a joy to design with ECL, if you ignored the horrendous power required. We could weld with the Cyber power supplies! And if the freon cooling failed, you got some interesting smoke within seconds. Billy

11 years, 8 months

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Vince Briel computers

by gkaufman＠the-planet.org

I have to admit I'm getting very frustrated with the situation. I ordered from Vince in August, and paid $218 in advance. His website is still accepting payment via Paypal, and it appears that others have also not received shipment of their Superboard III orders. I guess he's in San Diego, anyone have any direct contact information other than his email address? - Gary On 11/10/2014 2:38 AM, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote: He seems to come and go. I ordered a mini-altair from him in September of 2013 and got it around a year later.

11 years, 8 months

3
2
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Ti microExplorer

by turing＠shaw.ca

Hi: I've been collecting Lisp items for several years now; I had acquired a Symbolics MacIvory through the 'usual channels' as well as a TI microExplorer that took years to assemble. When I moved a couple of years ago, I didn't realize that the microExplorer had suffered a fatal injury, until I attempted to power it up at the request of someone interested in it. As most of the 'old Lisp' mailing lists are more-or-less defunct, and the current generation of Lisp enthusiasts appear to be focussed on software-only systems, I'm hoping that someone on this list knows where it might be possible to get boards for the TI microExplorer or, hopefully, has one that they'd be interested in making available. I realize that this is quite a long shot, as the system was developed in the lat '80s and didn't see a lot of sales. [I'd even be happy with a second MacIvory, if someone was willing to part with it...]

11 years, 8 months

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2
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Who's rewired their house for this hobby?

by bpettitx＠comcast.net

I can't speak to other areas, but where I live, in California, 3 phase is already brought in to most houses. But it is split at the power box. One phase to common is used for 120 volt single phase service. The other two phases to each other give 220 volt for major appliances. This shifts from house to house to balance out the loading. You can apply to have 3 phase service at the distribution point for heavier machine use. It doesn't involve any extra wiring but is a bitch to get permission. Zoning is very tight to prevent residences from being used for businesses. And also because most of the applications came people looking to set up a grow house. Though lately, most grow houses just steal the power by bypassing the meter. Billy

11 years, 8 months

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KL-10B in DEC-20 [was RE: Who's rewired their house for this hobby?]

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rich Alderson > Yes, MIT-AI. We purchased it from CZ, who rescued it from the AILab > skip, then from the Symbolics skip, then eventually sold it on eBay > when he had to. It still has the MIT de-acquisition sticker on the > front panel. Wow! That machine still exists? I'm pretty blown away! I was the person who got the donation of the 3 KS's for MIT, actually! IIRC correctly, I heard that DEC was giving tham away, or something like that (I think they had an over-supply when they decided to turn off PDP-10 support), and I thought it would be cool to have some - MIT was turning off the KA-10 ITS machines at that point (too much space, too costly to maintain, etc, etc), and the KL MC clearly wasn't long for the world either (ditto). So I talked to people at MIT about how to do it, and someone talked to people at DEC (our salesman, IIRC), and I wound up writing a letter, which Dave Clark signed, explaining how ITS was a really significant system historically (giving the details on why), and how it would be great it DEC could donate a couple of these machines so it could continue to run, etc, etc. So three machines duly arrived, and I thought they were so cute (small little boxes) I decided they should be named after the three little droids in "Silent Running" (Huey, Duey and Louie) - so if you look inside the front door you should be able to find "MIT-HY" or "MIT-DY" or "MIT-LY" written somewhere in permanent marker. Alas, nobody else liked the idea, so they were given recycled names. Pissed me off no end (since they machines wouldn't even have been there, if not for me)! >> ITS is an amazing system, and although there are a few running on >> simulators, I'm not sure anyone has it running on real hardware. >> That would be Very Cool. > I agree. As I noted in my response .. I'm working on it. :-) Excellent news! Thanks! Noel

11 years, 8 months

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Who's rewired their house for this hobby?

by kspt.tor＠gmail.com

On 27 November 2014 at 08:13, Geoff Oltmans <oltmansg at gmail.com> wrote: > > On Nov 26, 2014, at 3:04 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > >> Electrical resistive heating for household hea[t]ing in the US is being discouraged. There are government incentives to convert to much more efficient heat pump technology--with the side benefit of air conditioning in the summer. I do have "emergency" resistive heating elements in my air handler--they're connected to two 40A/240V circuits. > > Yeah, and heat pumps work great for heat until there is no heat in the outside air from which to extract. With my current (albeit aging) system, that temperature is around 28F, then it's on to the heat strips. Just get a newer heat pump :-) They're getting better year by year. The technology improves rapidly. The one I have installed in my living room starts out at more than 4-to-1 efficiency, 4kW heat for 1kW of electricity. It doesn't get down to 1-to-1 until -20C, that's about -4F I think. And it doesn't really get that cold in my town. The heat pump is barely ticking over to keep the larger part of the house warm most of the time. I don't need any additional heating to keep the whole second floor warm if I wish to (just open the doors. The heat pump, although not a big model, can take it. But house insulation is also very good in Norway, and that's probably the best first step one should look at, everywhere). The newest models though (three to four years newer than mine) are closer to 5-to-1, and they are able to extract heat from outside air until the temperature drops down to -30C (-22F). It's really impressive. If someone had told me ten years ago that you can extract useful heat from air all the way down to -30C, for less energy than you put in, I would have rejected the notion. Most of these heat pumps are Japanese.. Panasonic, Mitsubishi etc. (there's also at least one Korean, from Samsung. I have no knowledge about it). Those Japanese heat pumps are called 'Nordic' models.. the funny thing is that I can't find them in Japan! Only "old style" combination heater/AC systems. Now there's a place where some energy efficiency is loudly called for. Seems their best goods are only for export, at least for that category. Anyway, that heat pump did wonders for the electricity bill, even though I used to burn (free) wood in a wood stove nearly every day all winter in the past. Not anymore, and I still use much less electricity. (And I just noticed that the price of heat pumps seems to have dropped by half compared to some years ago.) -Tor

11 years, 8 months

1
0
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Who's rewired their house for this hobby?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Holm Tiffe > I think the US should have modernized the entire System long before > now.. Two words for you: 'installed base'. :-) Sort of like QWERTY keyboards... :-) Noel

11 years, 8 months

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KL-10B in DEC-20 [was RE: Who's rewired their house for this hobby?]

by RichA＠LivingComputerMuseum.org

From: Jon Elson Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:36 AM > On 11/26/2014 01:47 AM, Eric Smith wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> wrote: >>> On 11/25/2014 02:18 PM, Eric Smith wrote: >>>> Actually to 13 massive linear regulators on multiple large heat sinks. >>> There may have been several versions. The KL10B in a Decsystem 2020 >>> we had >> A DECSYSTEM-2020 uses a KS10, which has no ECL, and uses a big >> switching power supply made by third parties. The KL10B was used in >> the DECsystem-1090, but not in any DECSYSTEM-20 models. > Not true! The CPU was, absolutely, a KL10B. It was in a big orange > cabinet that was fairly similar in size and shape to a VAX 11/780. It > had a PDP 11/40 (I think) in the next bay over as the I/O processor. > I am not so clear about the exact "DECSystem" designation, but it VERY > much was a DECSystem 20<something>. [...] The label on the front of > the cabinet said "DECSystem-20" without specifically giving the model > number. Only the DECSYSTEM-2020 (with the KS10 processor) expanded on the "20" in the name. I believe that the KL10B processor was used in the so-called "Model A" DECSYSTEM-2040 and the DECsystem-1080. All the later systems, generically called "Model B" by the diagnostics and RSX-20F, were the various suffixes named by Eric, along with some he did not mention. We have a non-running 1090 here at the museum which is clearly and unambiguously labeled as a KL10D, as well as a KL10PV (blue 1095) and KL10PW (orange 2065) which run WAITS and Tops-10 7.04, respectively. Rich Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer Living Computer Museum 2245 1st Avenue S Seattle, WA 98134 mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

11 years, 8 months

4
4
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Who's rewired their house for this hobby?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Guy Sotomayor > The terms long pre-dated modern digital computers. Actually, the document which, AFAIK, introduced the terms "big-endian" and "little-endian" to the world of computers was "On Holy Wars and a Plea For Peace", by Danny Cohen (April, 1980): http://www.ietf.org/rfc/ien/ien137.txt and it makes explicit reference to Swift. (There might have been a slightly earlier version of this note, but I'd have to go check my hardcopies - something called 'Oceanview Tales' may have included it.) Noel

11 years, 8 months

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Mac G4s available

by nospam212-cctalk＠yahoo.com

I have the follow Mac G4 systems available: 1) Power Mac G4 933 - SuperDrive, VGA/DVI display adaptor, NO RAM and NO HDD. Case has been modified with metal brackets for mounting. Link to specs: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_933_qs.h tml 2) Power Mac G4 1.25 DP (MDD) - SuperDrive, DVU/Apple Display adaptor, NO RAM and NO HDD. Case has been modified with metal brackets for mounting (looks like racks slides on this one). Link to specs: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1.25_dp_ mdd.html 3) Power Mac G4 733 - SuperDrive, SCSI card, 1 gig RAM, NO Display adaptor and NO HDD. Standard case. Link to specs: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_733.html If anyone is interested in these, contact me off list and we can discuss them. I may have some more to offer up soon, have to finish reviewing them. If I don't hear from anyone in a few days I'll send them to recycle as I need to clear them out. Thanks. David Williams www.trailingedge.com

11 years, 8 months

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SMD replacement options?

by earl＠baugh.org

Howdy, In my restoration work on the Sun 1's I'm working with, I'd like to find a "modern" drive replacement (to allow me to boot the box, so I can cut down on the wear and tear on the original drive...it does still work, but like to not use it all the time). I've seen other adapters for various other protocols (i.e. SCSI and IDE) that allow for either SD card or CF cards to be used as drives. I'm wondering if such a beast exists for an SMD drive that would work with the xy controllers I have. I do have one or two SCSI controllers (but not enough for all of my multibus machines) so I have that partial answer. But I have a bunch of xy controllers that are were what were there originally... so I'd like to stay with that if I can... Thanks Earl the Squirrel

11 years, 8 months

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LogiTec MouseMan Mm ecg g

by abs＠absd.org

Mm On 26 Nov 2014 20:25, "Bill Machacek" <wmachacek at q.com> wrote: > I have a couple of them, both untested. Let me know where you are and I'll > send you one. No charge if you're in the US. > > > > Bill Machacek > > Colo. Springs, CO > > > >

11 years, 8 months

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Available: Datapoint 1500 and 80's Compaq Deskpro available in Forth Wayne, IN

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

I received this email, in case anyone's interested in these systems. The DataPoint is not the earliest 2200 system. Contact Laura below if interested. ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > I was wondering if anyone there would be interested in a Datapoint 1500 from the 70?s and a > Compaq Deskpro from the 80?s. Not sure if the Compaq fires up, but I do know the Datapoint > turns on (fan fires up), but nothing comes up on the screen.> > I?m located in Fort Wayne, Indiana. > > Laura Thoma-Dickinson > corychapin at aol.com > >

11 years, 8 months

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LogiTec MouseMan Mouse

by wmachacek＠q.com

I have a couple of them, both untested. Let me know where you are and I'll send you one. No charge if you're in the US. Bill Machacek Colo. Springs, CO

11 years, 8 months

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Clueless eBay buyers

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

Check out: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251721536445 Douglas Electronics has them, brand new, for $60... Noel

11 years, 8 months

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Clueless eBay buyers

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Peter Corlett > it's not at all obvious whether douglas.com even ships to > non-businesses They do; they're happy to take a credit card. I have purchased items from both Douglas and this eBay seller, and although I can't speak to their international service, there wasn't much between them in terms of either cost or speed. Noel

11 years, 8 months

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mainframes and other stuff

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

> Let's say that a Pentium Pro has a third of a gram; a troy ounce is > 31.1 grams; so 94 Pentium Pro to the troy ounce; 4.5 pounds is about > 65 troy ounces; so 6,182 Pentium Pro might have that much gold. There are 12 troy ounces to the pound, not 16. Anyway, yes, you are talking about something like 4800 PPros equivalent. Now compare the plated surface areas of a PPro compared to a number of the pins on the backplane - you will find that a gold plate area on a PPro (mind you, there is a fair amount under the cover, too) equates to a surprisingly small amount of old IBM backplane pins. Remember, the pins are long, and plated on four sides - and probably had a thicker plate that on PPros. And yes, the 75 was a really huge machine. Gold on the backplanes, gold on the connectors (early Bus&Tags have a very heavy plate), gold in transistors. I would not be surprised if there was gold in the lamp sockets. -- Will

11 years, 8 months

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Alpha and VAX Available in Sweden

by pontus＠Update.UU.SE

Hi all I need to free up some space for new interesting things comming in. So after much thinking I'm letting these machines go: VAX 11/750 (Complete, some spares, needs love) Alphaserver 1000 4/233 (Broken PSU) Alphaserver 2100 5/300 (Deskside, one CPU) Alphaserver 8200 5/300 (fullsize rack: http://www.pdp8.se/bild/sthlm_haul/as8200.jpg) DEC 4000 AXP (http://www.pdp8.se/bild/sthlm_haul/axps_small.jpg) One caveat: I don't need all that space, so if the 11/750 goes the AS8200 can stay. The things are free if you pick them up. But I'm flexible when it comes to shipping but make me an offer that makes it worth it to me. Trades for smaller things or things with blinkenlights are welcome. I'm also selling Two MicroVAX 3500 in BA213 with two DSSI disk cabinets (R215F). Timeframe: I'd really like the things gone before March next year but I'm flexible here also. /P

11 years, 8 months

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Who's rewired their house for this hobby?

by kspt.tor＠gmail.com

On 25 November 2014 at 21:17, Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote: > On the other hand, distributing three-phase to residences, while great > for people with shop equipment or old computers, seems like expensive > overkill for normal homes. I don't know the reasoning for Germany, but in my town in Norway it was apparently used in order to reduce costs, actually. Traditionally 3-phase in Norway has been distributed with 3, not 4 wires: If balanced, earth return current is zero. Some years ago the Norwegian system was unified with what's standard in most of EU, I'm not sure if things changed then (but at least in the past there was no 'neutral' and 'live' in a home - both wires were equal in that respect, and the voltage to earth was never 220V (as we used back then, now it's 230V), it could vary but was in practice never more than 160V, normally just 120V. Less of a jolt than if you touched both wires. Wire to earth accidents is a much more common affair than wire-to-wire accidents). Anyway, I'm not an expert on this so as I said I'm not certain if the policy of using only 3 wires has changed - but at least with that system, distributing 3-phase means that you could transport 200% more effect with only one additional wire. Even with four wires it pays off. And that's why it was done AFAIK. [In addition it seems that feeding 3-phase all the way to the consumer is nearly 'free' with TN, see below] (Reading up on this a bit - apparently the traditional Norwegian power distribution system was called 'IT', Isolated Terra, while new and refurbished areas are now using TN, Terra Neutral (400V), the system which is now common in Europe. What impact this has for the jolt when you touch the wire I'm not sure about [update: Ouch, you'll get 230V to earth], but apparently TN is what makes it feasible to distribute 3-phase to every house. With the older IT system the (then) 3-phase 380V system had to be installed separately. With TN you get both 230V and 400V directly available for the consumer. But I think you'll need 4 wires in practice. It still pays off, economically.] Now I slowly retract my steps back to the more familiar lower-voltage DC land where I feel on more solid ground.. :-) -Tor

11 years, 8 months

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Digest Size?

by shawn-gordon＠cox.net

i wish I could even get back on the digest, I followed the instructions and it didn't work, none of the commands to the listsreve worked other than the 'help' one, I'm getting a ton of emails and need to get back to digest. On 11/25/2014 5:12 PM, Jay West wrote: > That's funny... about two weeks ago, someone said "hey, the digest size is really small, can you increase it so the entire day fits in one digest?" > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Earl Baugh > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:43 PM > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Digest Size? > > I get CC talk in a digest form and just recently the size per digest is crossing the boundary where GMail will "chop" the end of the digest. This seems to be a recent occurrence...so wondering, is this something Jay would > need to change, or is this something I can change? I didn't see where I > could change it (maybe I'm just missing the setting...or misinterpreting > something...) > > Earl > > > >

11 years, 8 months

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Digest Size?

by earl＠baugh.org

I get CC talk in a digest form and just recently the size per digest is crossing the boundary where GMail will "chop" the end of the digest. This seems to be a recent occurrence...so wondering, is this something Jay would need to change, or is this something I can change? I didn't see where I could change it (maybe I'm just missing the setting...or misinterpreting something...) Earl

11 years, 8 months

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Anyone Near Los Gatos, CAL? $$ for Serial Printer Repair

by billdeg＠buzz1.com

$$ Printer Repair in Los Gatos, CA $$ Anyone in Los Gatos CA area looking for an emergency repair job? I was contacted by a travel agency who needs their Texas Instruments RO 810 printer repaired. The problem is that the printer does not respond to prints sent to it, although the lights are all normal indicating READY. They're using the Apollo system but I don't know what kind of computer or terminal they have hooked up to the printer. The RO 810 is just a receive only serial printer, essentially a one way serial terminal, probably 300-1200 baud. Here is a photo of the same printer I own. I have the manuals, etc. Probably they're also on the web http://vintagecomputer.net/cromemco/system_three/ti_omni_800_810_RO_Terminal .jpg Anyone want to take a stab at it? I can help remotely but I live 3000 miles away. Agency has a backup printer that might work, need someone on site to set up and or swap parts. IF YOU CAN GO TO CUSTOMER SITE (ideally 11/26 or Monday after Thanksgiving), please contact me via vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm. I will pay whomever helps me as a subcontractor and will assist you by phone as needed. Because I have same printer I can help run compare/contrast testing. Note that printer ribbons for the TI RO 810 and Decwriter II are interchangeable. Bill Vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm

11 years, 8 months

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