23 Nov
2014
23 Nov
'14
4:49 p.m.
Thanks to the efforts of several members, my Osborne Vixen is up & running
with a working display. But now the dang thing is begging me for a disc
that I don't have.. =/
Could someone possibly send me some boot-media for this machine? As things
sit, I don't even have a PC with a 5-1/4" drive installed, if (and that's
+if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format.
I've tried feeding it media for Epson & Kaypro CP/M machines, but no dice -
it rejects them without a second seek. Anyone know how to handle this?
23 Nov
23 Nov
5:31 p.m.
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014, drlegendre . wrote:
Thanks to the efforts of several members, my Osborne
Vixen is up & running
with a working display. But now the dang thing is begging me for a disc
that I don't have.. =/
Could someone possibly send me some boot-media for this machine? As things
sit, I don't even have a PC with a 5-1/4" drive installed, if (and that's
+if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format.
I've tried feeding it media for Epson & Kaypro CP/M machines, but no dice -
it rejects them without a second seek. Anyone know how to handle this?
The original Osborne was SSSD, with 10 sectors of 256 bytes each. Almost
the same "low level" format as TRS80 Model 1 (except the TRS80 only used
the first 35 tracks, . . . ). With a small amount of screwing around with
Superzap (or alternates), Osborne disks can be created using a TRS80.
IFF you have the "double density" upgrade of the Osborne, (was the Vixen
one of those?) then disks are writable with a PC with 360K drive, but are
NOT the same format as Kaypro nor Epson.
Does the Osborne use a "standard" SA400 interface? If so, then a 720K
3.5" could be cabled into it. (or a 3", or a 3.25", . . . )
5:44 p.m.
On 11/23/2014 07:31 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
IFF you have the "double density" upgrade of
the Osborne, (was the Vixen
one of those?) then disks are writable with a PC with 360K drive, but are
NOT the same format as Kaypro nor Epson.
Some PCs will write SD, of course, although I think far fewer will write SD
and 128 byte sectors.
Does the Osborne use a "standard" SA400
interface? If so, then a 720K
3.5" could be cabled into it. (or a 3", or a 3.25", . . . )
I don't know about the Vixen. The OCC1 uses what seem to be stock drive
chassis but with custom logic boards that get power over the same cable as
data. I get the impression that there's nothing special about the
signaling, though, and so it's likely possible to run different drives
(which would include 3.x" units) if a suitable adapter were to be wired up.
cheers
Jules
6:36 p.m.
The 5.25" drives in the Vixen utilize the standard 34-pin edge-connect
cabling and 4-pin 'Molex' type power connection, as with any conventional
5.25" floppy or 3.5" IDE HDD.
Of course, at this time I can't say if the voltages or signals are correct,
but the form-factors do seem to match up; they're plug-compatible, in any
case.
Seems like the best route is to hang out 'till someone with a working
Osborne offers to send me some bootable media. Thing is, I don't think I
even have a User's Guide for this thing - isn't there some sort of ROM
monitor you can invoke from the boot screen? Maybe not, but it seems like
something that ought to be there..
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Jules Richardson <
jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/23/2014 07:31 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
IFF you have the "double density"
upgrade of the Osborne, (was the Vixen
one of those?) then disks are writable with a PC with 360K drive, but are
NOT the same format as Kaypro nor Epson.
Some PCs will write SD, of course, although I think far fewer will write
SD and 128 byte sectors.
Does the Osborne use a "standard" SA400 interface? If so, then a 720K
3.5" could be cabled into it. (or a
3", or a 3.25", . . . )
I don't know about the Vixen. The OCC1 uses what seem to be stock drive
chassis but with custom logic boards that get power over the same cable as
data. I get the impression that there's nothing special about the
signaling, though, and so it's likely possible to run different drives
(which would include 3.x" units) if a suitable adapter were to be wired up.
cheers
Jules
24 Nov
24 Nov
5:07 a.m.
On 11/23/2014 08:36 PM, drlegendre . wrote:
The 5.25" drives in the Vixen utilize the
standard 34-pin edge-connect
cabling and 4-pin 'Molex' type power connection, as with any conventional
5.25" floppy or 3.5" IDE HDD.
Of course, at this time I can't say if the voltages or signals are correct,
but the form-factors do seem to match up; they're plug-compatible, in any
case.
They probably are; it seemed weird that Osborne went with the non-standard
drives for the Osborne 1 - I'm not sure what the benefit was supposed to
be. Sure, they probably saved a buck on a power harness, but I don't know
if that negates the hassle of getting custom drive units made.
Seems like the best route is to hang out 'till
someone with a working
Osborne offers to send me some bootable media.
Well if it comes to it I'm sure we can figure out something when the OCC1 I
have finds its way to you. But I expect that the Vixen uses DD by default
though, doesn't it? In which case - if the Vixen drives aren't anything
weird - you should be able to hook one up to a PC and write some media; any
old PC FDC should handle it.
Thing is, I don't think I
even have a User's Guide for this thing - isn't there some sort of ROM
monitor you can invoke from the boot screen? Maybe not, but it seems like
something that ought to be there..
I really don't know about the Vixen - I don't think the OCC1 has anything
like that though, it's pretty basic.
cheers
Jules
9:07 a.m.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014, Jules Richardson wrote:
They probably are; it seemed weird that Osborne went
with the non-standard
drives for the Osborne 1 - I'm not sure what the benefit was supposed to
be. Sure, they probably saved a buck on a power harness, but I don't know
if that negates the hassle of getting custom drive units made.
We should ask Lee!
Perhaps it was to save money?
Or some plans for later expansion?
At the time, Apple had been using their own boards on SA390 drives (an
SA400, without the board)
Well if it comes to it I'm sure we can figure out
something when the OCC1 I
have finds its way to you. But I expect that the Vixen uses DD by default
though, doesn't it? In which case - if the Vixen drives aren't anything
weird - you should be able to hook one up to a PC and write some media; any
old PC FDC should handle it.
[with appropriate software]
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
8 p.m.
On 11/23/2014 06:53 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014, Jules Richardson wrote:
It's 128-byte MFM (not FM) that's the problem with a huge swath of PC
controllers. And, wouldn't you know it, there were a few systems using
just that.
The National Semi DP8473 is one of the controllers that can pull that
one off. Apparently they reverse-engineered the NEC 765 and didn't
reproduce the bug. Shame on them! Didn't they understand
"compatibility"? And yes, the same NS controller handles FM flawlessly.
--Chuck
Some PCs will write SD, of course, although I
think far fewer will write SD
and 128 byte sectors.
The good news is that the Osborne single density was 256 bytes per sector.
10 sectors per track, single sided, 40 tracks 
5:38 p.m.
On 11/23/2014 7:49 PM, drlegendre . wrote:
Thanks to the efforts of several members, my Osborne
Vixen is up& running
with a working display. But now the dang thing is begging me for a disc
that I don't have.. =/
What were you thinking it would beg you for?
Could someone possibly send me some boot-media for
this machine?
I'm sure it's possible that someone could, and that would be
the best route.
As things
sit, I don't even have a PC with a 5-1/4" drive installed, if (and that's
+if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format.
If you have any
serious intentions of vintage computer collecting, this
is a must have.
I've tried feeding it media for Epson& Kaypro
CP/M machines, but no dice -
it rejects them without a second seek. Anyone know how to handle this?
Usually, I
handle this kind of problem by swapping out the user. :-D
- J.
24 Nov
24 Nov
4:32 a.m.
As things
sit, I don't even have a PC with a 5-1/4" drive installed, if (and that's
+if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format.
If you have any
serious intentions of vintage computer collecting, this
is a must have.
9:04 a.m.
>> sit, I don't even have a PC with a
5-1/4" drive installed, if (and that's
>> +if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format.
>If you have any serious intentions of vintage computer collecting, this
>is a must have.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014, Peter Coghlan wrote:
Isn't "must have" a bit strong?
A little. Maybe a "strong recommendation".
He would need a PC with a 5-1/4" drive for running XenoCopy. (Or Chuck's
software. Or David Dunfield's software.),
OR, he could write a PC emulator for something else that he owns.
(XenoCopy could read Osborne1 DD disks while running under "Transformer"
on Amiga 1000, . . . )
OR, once he gets the Osborne into a monitor program, and or booted and
running DDT or other tools, then he could simply write the software needed
to use the Osborne to be his creator of 5.25" disks. (A PC emulator
running on the Osborne might not be practical, particularly for current
Windoze)
Maybe I'm more of a vintage computer user than a
collector or maybe I'm just
not serious but a VAXstation 2000 and a BBC Micro have managed to cope with
all of my 5-1/4" disk needs so far. As far as I'm concerned the hobby is
about what can be done without resorting to a PC, not what can be done with
one as a prerequisite or as some kind of fallback to be used for
routine tasks.
I'm not aware of any software currently extant for using Osborne for
disk manipulation, but it would certainly be capable of it.
After all, "boot" in our business is short for "bootstrap", which is
based
on Baron Von Munchausen lifting himself out of the swamp by pulling up on
his own bootstraps. Just because the tools aren't there doesn't mean that
you can't write them; just because the tools to write the tools aren't
there doesn't mean that you can't write them; just because the tools to
write the tools to write the tools . . .
Now back to the regular religeous war on US vs
European power distribution
(which I have strongly held opinions on too but I don't think it's going to
do much good to voice them, especially when each mail seem to be arriving
twice until the list gets back to normal...)
Well before we get back to griping about how the list is not as perfect
as it once was, . . .
Elsewhere in another branch of this thread, there is mention of certain
limitations of the PC hardware, including the difficulties with Single
Density, and with 128 byte sectors in Double Density.
I love that discussion, because 30 years ago, I spent a ridiculous amount
of time convinced that I was doing something wrong when I was trying to
read 128 byte sectors. It is such a relief to find out that, besides the
many things that I was doing wrong, that the problem was actually stuff
that others had done wrong before me. Sure woulda been nice if I had
known Chuck THEN! (I had finally figured out why I couldn't do single
density by staring at pin 26 of the NEC765 in the schematics in the IBM
PC Technical Reference Manual.)
The flamewar about RX02 is based on defining what is meant by the phrase
"MFM floppy"! Nobody is "wrong", they just aren't recognizing
each
other's definitions. The RX02 is NOT an "FM floppy"; the RX02 is NOT an
"MFM floppy". It is a hybrid. It took an FM low level format, and
rewrote the data area of each sector with MFM, resulting in a disk that is
about 1/3 FM, and 2/3 MFM. In terms of the floppy ITSELF, disks rated for
FM or rated for MFM should both work, but there might be better
reliability using the MFM rated disks. AND NOT the 600 Oerstedt "1.2M"
disks! THOSE might seem to work, but will be blank again before you need
to reread the disk! BTDT.
And, NO, the 765 can't be tricked into reading RX02.
Or can it? PROVE ME WRONG - write the code to do it!
But, lest we forget, . . . the OP wants Osborne disks. The PC has no
major problems reading, writing, and formatting DOUBLE DENSITY Osborne
disks [with appropriate software - you shoulda bought a copy of XenoCopy
when it was available, to keep me in business, and to write Osborne disks
for the OP]
IF the OP wants SINGLE DENSITY Osborne disks, as were used in the original
Osborne Computer (before it had a number), they are NOT 128 byte sectors,
just a fairly ordinary single density (FM) 256 bypes per sector with 10
sectors, which can be done with TRS80, or with a PC with certain specific
FDC chips, OR a PC with certain [minor] modifications (go stare at pin 26
of the FDC in the schematics!) such as what Flagstaff Engineering did to
the original IBM FDC board.
OK, NOW back to the list meta-discussions, "which was the first computer?",
cars, guns, and storage space.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
10:54 a.m.
The flamewar about RX02 is based on defining what is
meant by the phrase
"MFM floppy"! Nobody is "wrong", they just aren't recognizing
each
other's definitions. The RX02 is NOT an "FM floppy"; the RX02 is NOT an
"MFM floppy". It is a hybrid. It took an FM low level format, and
rewrote the data area of each sector with MFM, resulting in a disk that is
about 1/3 FM, and 2/3 MFM. In terms of the floppy ITSELF, disks rated for
FM or rated for MFM should both work, but there might be better
reliability using the MFM rated disks. AND NOT the 600 Oerstedt "1.2M"
disks! THOSE might seem to work, but will be blank again before you need
to reread the disk! BTDT.
If you can make a real DEC RX02 unit do anything useful with a PC type
'1.2M' disk then I feel like saying I will eat one. The RX02 drive. It's a
dual 8" unit...
As I mentioned, there were 3rd party Qbus boards that did RX02 format
using normal 8" drives (SA800 type), Many also supported double-sided
operation (The hooks for that were in the drivers in most DEC OS's, the
DEC RX02 had almost all the electronics for it, other than the 'down' heads).
I suspect that with the right cabling these boards could be used with PC
type HD drives. In which case you _would_ want 600 Oestedt disks,
And, NO, the 765 can't be tricked into reading
RX02.
Or can it? PROVE ME WRONG - write the code to do it!
I've never heard of it being done. Those 3rd party RX02 compatible
controller boards didn't use a standard FDC IC. They used a
custom controller (often a pair of 2901s, a 2910 and microcode PROMs
plus a lot of extra logic).
-tony
11:05 a.m.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014, tony duell wrote:
If you can make a real DEC RX02 unit do anything
useful with a PC type
'1.2M' disk then I feel like saying I will eat one. The RX02 drive. It's
a dual 8" unit...
My mistake!
BUT, couldn't a "1.2M" 5.25" drive be cabled to the DEC?
Those diskettes might be slightly easier to find blanks than 8"
11:12 a.m.
If you can
make a real DEC RX02 unit do anything useful with a PC type
'1.2M' disk then I feel like saying I will eat one. The RX02 drive. It's
a dual 8" unit...
My mistake!
BUT, couldn't a "1.2M" 5.25" drive be cabled to the DEC?
Those diskettes might be slightly easier to find blanks than 8" 
12:33 p.m.
On 2014-11-24 11:05, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014, tony duell wrote:
The interface for the RX01/RX02 is not like any other floppy interface
either.
Lots of low level stuff is done out in the drive. The controller board
itself is fairly simple.
So you don't actually have the low level signals passed from the drive
to the controller on them.
Johnny
If you can make a real DEC RX02 unit do anything
useful with a PC type
'1.2M' disk then I feel like saying I will eat one. The RX02 drive. It's
a dual 8" unit...
My mistake!
BUT, couldn't a "1.2M" 5.25" drive be cabled to the DEC?
Those diskettes might be slightly easier to find blanks than 8" 
9:32 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Coghlan" <cctech at beyondthepale.ie>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!
Isn't "must have" a bit strong?
Maybe I'm more of a vintage computer user than a collector or maybe I'm
just
not serious but a VAXstation 2000 and a BBC Micro have managed to cope
with
all of my 5-1/4" disk needs so far. As far as I'm concerned the hobby is
about what can be done without resorting to a PC, not what can be done
with
one as a prerequisite or as some kind of fallback to be used for routine
tasks. ----------------
You can also do without an oscilloscope or even a screwdriver, but they do
make some things a lot easier; why should not using a certain common tool be
a prerequisite of this hobby, especially when so much of it involves
exchanging with others.
As things
sit, I don't even have a PC with a 5-1/4" drive installed, if (and
that's
+if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format.
If you have any
serious intentions of vintage computer collecting, this is
a must have.
Now back to the regular religious war on US vs European power distribution
(which I have strongly held opinions on too but I don't think it's going
to
do much good to voice them, especially when each mail seem to be arriving
twice until the list gets back to normal...)
----------------
You're probably signed up under two different email addresses; check the
address on your incoming mail and if they're different unsub one of them.
9:57 a.m.
@One or two recent posters (...)
Gee whiz guys, I'm not exactly new to this game.. I've been collecting
computer stuff for 20 years and at this point have had to sell more than
I've managed to retain. Yes, there was a time when I had a 486 tower with
one-each of all the various drives - could boot it into DOS, Win or Linux
to handle all sorts of media-related tasks.. likewise, an older Mac that
ran an Apple II hardware emulator which could be used to write media for
all of the older Apple machines.
Both were networked in one way or another. IIRC the Mac had the Asante
SCSI-Ethernet adapter as the lone PDS port carried the Apple emulator. I
still have the Mac stuff somewhere, but the PC tower is long gone..
You know, times and interests change, hobbies wax & wane.. I only got back
into the vintage computing stuff a few months back when I decided it was
finally time to make that Altair work.. that I knew enough to 'bootstrap'
myself into the process, and that I could learn what was needed as I went.
As it turns out, I was correct..
So anyway, don't stress out over this stuff.. newbish as I may be at times,
I'm not exactly flying blind or going off half-cocked all the time. ;-)
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Mike Stein <mhs.stein at gmail.com> wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter
Coghlan" <
cctech at beyondthepale.ie>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!
----------------
You can also do without an oscilloscope or even a screwdriver, but they do
make some things a lot easier; why should not using a certain common tool
be a prerequisite of this hobby, especially when so much of it involves
exchanging with others.
As things
Isn't "must have" a bit strong?
Maybe I'm more of a vintage computer user than a collector or maybe I'm
just
not serious but a VAXstation 2000 and a BBC Micro have managed to cope
with
all of my 5-1/4" disk needs so far. As far as I'm concerned the hobby is
about what can be done without resorting to a PC, not what can be done
with
one as a prerequisite or as some kind of fallback to be used for routine
tasks.
sit, I don't even have a PC with a
5-1/4" drive installed, if (and
that's
+if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format.
If you have any serious intentions of vintage computer collecting, this
is
a must have.
Now back to the regular religious war on US vs
European power distribution
(which I have strongly held opinions on too but I don't think it's going
to
do much good to voice them, especially when each mail seem to be arriving
twice until the list gets back to normal...)
----------------
You're probably signed up under two different email addresses; check the
address on your incoming mail and if they're different unsub one of them.
10:06 a.m.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014, drlegendre . wrote:
@One or two recent posters (...)
Gee whiz guys, I'm not exactly new to this game.. I've been collecting
computer stuff for 20 years and at this point have had to sell more than
I've managed to retain.
Sorry.
I lose track of whom I am writing to.
And, a single remark, misinterpreted as implying lack of knowledge, can
fool me into not realizing that I am being patronizing to those who know
far more than I ever will.
This is not the first time that I've made a fool of myself.
Nevertheless, bootstrapping with inadequate initial resources is a
wonderfully challenging puzzle.
10:29 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Cisin" <cisin at xenosoft.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014, drlegendre . wrote:
---------------
So does he, apparently; I was actually replying to Peter...
@One or two recent posters (...)
Gee whiz guys, I'm not exactly new to this game.. I've been collecting
computer stuff for 20 years and at this point have had to sell more than
I've managed to retain.
Sorry.
I lose track of whom I am writing to. And, a single remark, misinterpreted as implying lack
of knowledge, can
fool me into not realizing that I am being patronizing to those who know
far more than I ever will.
This is not the first time that I've made a fool of myself.
----------------
I don't see a problem with mentioning that it would be helpful if his PC/XT
had a serial or parallel port and that a null-modem cable is a useful thing
to have; also, not everyone is aware that you don't need compatible media to
install and use Laplink/Interlink etc. although he obviously is ;-)
Some folks get defensive so easily...
Nevertheless, bootstrapping with inadequate initial
resources is a
wonderfully challenging puzzle.
----------------
And more power to those who enjoy the challenge.
m
12:11 p.m.
One of the easier methods of crossing the old-new divide is to replace
or add a 3.5" floppy drive to the XT and use 2D (not high-density) media
to exchange. Leave the other 5.25" floppy where it is. Of course,
you'll need the header-to-edge adapter and the power cable adapter, but
AFAIK, they're still available--as well as drive bracket adapters.
Later versions of MS-DOS (I don't recall exactly when, but I think it
was around 3.3 or earlier, have a DRIVER.SYS installable driver to
handle the full 720K)--otherwise, you may be restricted to writing 360K.
The actual type 3.5" drive doesn't matter much--you can use an HD or DD
drive, so long as it's media-sense and not host-directed for density
(almost all are) and you use DD disks (or cover the media type aperture
on the floppy.)
--Chuck
2:44 p.m.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014, Chuck Guzis wrote:
One of the easier methods of crossing the old-new
divide is to replace
or add a 3.5" floppy drive to the XT and use 2D (not high-density) media
to exchange. Leave the other 5.25" floppy where it is. Of course,
you'll need the header-to-edge adapter and the power cable adapter, but
AFAIK, they're still available--as well as drive bracket adapters.
Once you
solved the power connector issue, you could usually find cables,
or . . .
use a fairly long AT cable, but use the middle floppy connector for the
FDC!, the FDC connector for the 3.5" drive, and the end floppy connector
for the other floppy drive.
Later versions of MS-DOS (I don't recall exactly
when, but I think it
was around 3.3 or earlier, have a DRIVER.SYS installable driver to
handle the full 720K)--otherwise, you may be restricted to writing 360K.
THAT would be version 3.20 of bothe MS-DOS and PC-DOS.
They also had DRIVPARM as a CONFIG.SYS "command", that would reconfigure
without adding another drive nor driver in [precious] RAM. But, that was
not documented in the PC-DOS manuals, and for reasons as yet unexplained,
would not work with the real IBM BIOS ROMs, although it did work [with
either PC-DOS OR MS-DOS] with Award, Phoenix, and several generic BIOS
ROMs.
Also, SOME non-generic OEM versions of 2.11 that were put out with laptops
supported 720K drives.
The actual type 3.5" drive doesn't matter
much--you can use an HD or DD
drive, so long as it's media-sense and not host-directed for density
(almost all are) and you use DD disks (or cover the media type aperture
on the floppy.)
Well, the "1.4M" media and the "720K" media was slightly different.
600? Oersted V 720? oersted, so it was close enough that you could usually
get away with using the wrong one.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2:47 p.m.
Later versions
of MS-DOS (I don't recall exactly when, but I think it
was around 3.3 or earlier, have a DRIVER.SYS installable driver to
handle the full 720K)--otherwise, you may be restricted to writing 360K.
THAT would be version 3.20 of bothe MS-DOS and PC-DOS.
They also had DRIVPARM as a CONFIG.SYS "command", that would reconfigure
without adding another drive nor driver in [precious] RAM. But, that was
not documented in the PC-DOS manuals, and for reasons as yet unexplained,
would not work with the real IBM BIOS ROMs, although it did work [with
either PC-DOS OR MS-DOS] with Award, Phoenix, and several generic BIOS
ROMs.
Also, SOME non-generic OEM versions of 2.11 that were put out with laptops
supported 720K drives. 
2:56 p.m.
New subject: IMPDRIVE (was: Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!)
Warner,
wow, great to know you are on the list! I have a Rainbow 100(+, effectively) reasonably
well-equipped. One of the upgrades I always wanted but never installed was an
IMPDRIVE-driven floppy drive. It?s still original, but I keep wanting to get around to
it.
Long-belated thanks for your work on the Rainbow!
- Mark
On Nov 24, 2014, at 4:47 PM, Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:
All this talk reminds me if the IMPDRIVE driver I
wrote for my Rainbow
back in the day so I could connect the 720k floppy drives to it and have
them work. IIRC, it was little more than a thin wrapper to properly setup
the parameters for the Rainbow?s default driver to access them correctly.
Fun times.
Warner
5:35 p.m.
On 11/24/2014 02:44 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
THAT would be version 3.20 of bothe MS-DOS and
PC-DOS.
They also had DRIVPARM as a CONFIG.SYS "command", that would reconfigure
without adding another drive nor driver in [precious] RAM. But, that was
not documented in the PC-DOS manuals, and for reasons as yet unexplained,
would not work with the real IBM BIOS ROMs, although it did work [with
either PC-DOS OR MS-DOS] with Award, Phoenix, and several generic BIOS
ROMs.
At least one of the PC-DOS versions (3.3?) supported DRIVPARM, but "hid"
it requiring that the "DRIVPARM=" be followed by (IIRC) 3 hex 01
characters. Bizarre. DRIVER.SYS worked okay, though.
--Chuck
3:28 p.m.
On 11/24/2014 02:11 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
One of the easier methods of crossing the old-new
divide is to replace or
add a 3.5" floppy drive to the XT and use 2D (not high-density) media to
exchange.
How obtainable is DD 3.5" media these days? I've seen precisely *one* disk
in the last seven years, which suggests that it's rather rare, at least
locally. I've not searched online with an intention of buying any, though;
I'm just surprised that it's not still relatively common in thruft* stores
etc. in the form of used disks (after all, there were plenty of machines
such as the Amiga using them which were still around into the '90s)
* typo, but I like it - a thrift store that sells cruft.
Leave the other 5.25" floppy where it is. Of
course, you'll
need the header-to-edge adapter and the power cable adapter, but AFAIK,
they're still available--as well as drive bracket adapters.
More modern early-Pentium PCs which have a "full" floppy cable - even if
they only have a 3.5" drive fitted - seem to be around still, albeit in
small numbers; I've grabbed a few from local Freecycle lists, Facebook
groups etc. OP may get lucky and find a suitable power adapter that way, too.
cheers
Jules
5:43 p.m.
On 11/24/2014 03:28 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
How obtainable is DD 3.5" media these days?
I've seen precisely *one*
disk in the last seven years, which suggests that it's rather rare, at
least locally. I've not searched online with an intention of buying any,
though; I'm just surprised that it's not still relatively common in
thruft* stores etc. in the form of used disks (after all, there were
plenty of machines such as the Amiga using them which were still around
into the '90s)
I just shipped about 300 Sony DSDDs today. Free for shipping. Sorry, I
don't have another batch ready to go, but if you want to *buy* NEW DSDD
3.5 media, I"m willing to talk. I've also got oodles of used DSDD 5.25"
media; some used, some new.
More modern early-Pentium PCs which have a
"full" floppy cable - even if
they only have a 3.5" drive fitted - seem to be around still, albeit in
small numbers; I've grabbed a few from local Freecycle lists, Facebook
groups etc. OP may get lucky and find a suitable power adapter that way,
too.
..or, depending on what he's using for a floppy controller, some
manufacturers routed the extra motor-control and drive-select to unused
positions on the cable so that three drives could be run on the same
cable.
DTC even had a board with a jumper enabling running the standard
"Shugart" configuration with 4 drives on the same cable. Of course,
when one drive spindle motor comes on, they *all* start spinning. Not
such a good thing for a 5150 with the wimpy PSU.
--Chuck
12:53 p.m.
You're probably signed up under two different email addresses; check the
address on your incoming mail and if they're different unsub one of them.
Thanks for the suggestion Mike.
It looks like I'm getting one copy of each message with a cctech From: address
and a second copy of each with a cctalk From: address. My address looks
identical on all the mails. I've tried unsubscribing from cctalk (as I want to
stay on cctech, where I've always been) using:
http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/options/cctalk
It tells me "The confirmation email has been sent." but it never arrives here
and I keep getting two copies of everything.
I thought others might be having the same problem but I guess not otherwise
there would be a chorus of "Me too!" by now (Wasn't that <AOL>Me
too!</AOL>
at one time?)
So nobody else is seeing this behaviour then?
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
1:14 p.m.
New subject: List memberships and duplicates [was Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!]
You're
probably signed up under two different email addresses; check
the address on your incoming mail and if they're different unsub one
of them.
It looks like I'm getting one copy of each message with a cctech
From: address and a second copy of each with a cctalk From: address. 
1:28 p.m.
New subject: List memberships and duplicates [was Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!]
On Nov 24, 2014, at 1:14 PM, Mouse <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG> wrote:
Me too. I tried unsubbing from cctech and was told I
wasn't
subscribed. So I've just left it, figuring Jay has bigger fish to fry
for the moment - if it really bugged me I'd procmail the cctech copy to
/dev/null. If it's still going on whenever it seems to me it's worth
mentioning again (a month? two?), I may see if Jay has the spare cycles
then to deal with it.
I?ve been getting the duplicates too and also haven?t said anything for the same reasons.
I did check the ?List-" headers to see if I was getting a copy from cctech, but it?s
not coming from there. I suspect what?s happening is the cctech is forwarding to cctalk,
or has cctalk as a subscriber, and the cctalk list is not checking or storing the
Message-ID to prevent duplicate messages.
Like you, I?m not an expert on mailman. The last time I ran a mailing list I used
procmail?s SmartList.
--
Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx
Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com
1 Dec
1 Dec
10:31 a.m.
New subject: List memberships and duplicates [was Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!]
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:28:05 -0800 Chris Osborn <fozztexx at fozztexx.com> wrote:
On Nov 24, 2014, at 1:14 PM, Mouse <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG> wrote:
I am still getting duplicate mails. To recap, I am subscribed to cctech and
one copy of each duplicate is arriving with a cctech From: address and the
second copy is arriving with a cctalk From: address. I have tried to
unsubscribe from cctalk but I never receive the email asking me to confirm
I wish to unsubscribe, suggesting that I am not subscribed to cctalk.
There have only been a few responses to this thread so it appears that either:
1) There are very few people experiencing this problem.
or
2) All cctech subscribers are experiencing it and very few find it a problem.
or
2) All cctech subscribers are experiencing it and there are very few people
subscribed to cctech!
It doesn't look like this is going to be fixed quickly so I decided it's time
to do something before talk of cooking the Thanksgiving turkey turns to talk
of cooking the Christmas turkey. I decided that if I unsubscribe from cctech
and subscribe to cctalk, even though I will still get the off-topic stuff, I
should get a lot less mail because the on-topic stuff should only arrive once,
which is definately an improvement and will do for now.
In case I might miss anything important, like someone offering a free IBM 3420
on my doorstep, I decided to subscribe to cctalk first, wait until I start
getting three copies of everything and then unsubscribe from cctech.
So, I subscribed to cctalk (with the same address I use for cctech which on
reflection may not have been a good idea), replied to the confirmation email
and then received the "Welcome to cctalk" email. However, I have not started
getting three copies of anything. Everything is very much as before, one
copy from from cctalk and usually another some time later from cctech,
presumably after moderator approval.
I thought I was on to something when one message arrived twice from cctalk and
twice more from cctech but then I found that it appears to have been sent to:
On-Topic Posts <cctech at classiccmp.org>, General at classiccmp.org, and Off-Topic
Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
so it's arrival here four times is consistent with previous behaviour.
So what next? I get the feeling that if I unsubscribe from cctech, I will
stop receiving anything at all and if I unsubscribe from cctalk, nothing will
happen.
Any suggestions?
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Me too. I tried unsubbing from cctech and was
told I wasn't
subscribed. So I've just left it, figuring Jay has bigger fish to fry
for the moment - if it really bugged me I'd procmail the cctech copy to
/dev/null. If it's still going on whenever it seems to me it's worth
mentioning again (a month? two?), I may see if Jay has the spare cycles
then to deal with it.
I?ve been getting the duplicates too and also haven?t said anything for the
same reasons. I did check the ?List-" headers to see if I was getting a copy
from cctech, but it?s not coming from there. I suspect what?s happening is
the cctech is forwarding to cctalk, or has cctalk as a subscriber, and the
cctalk list is not checking or storing the Message-ID to prevent duplicate
messages.
Like you, I?m not an expert on mailman. The last time I ran a mailing list
I used procmail?s SmartList.
11:42 a.m.
New subject: List memberships and duplicates [was Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!]
On 12/01/2014, 10:31 AM, Peter Coghlan wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:28:05 -0800 Chris Osborn
<fozztexx at fozztexx.com> wrote:
Your report matches my situation...I can't unsubscribe though, and - not
interested in losing everything - have decided to live with the double
posting until the moderator can sort out the problem and make an
announcement.
John :-#)#
On Nov 24, 2014, at 1:14 PM, Mouse <mouse at
Rodents-Montreal.ORG> wrote:
I am still getting duplicate mails. To recap, I am subscribed to cctech and
one copy of each duplicate is arriving with a cctech From: address and the
second copy is arriving with a cctalk From: address. I have tried to
unsubscribe from cctalk but I never receive the email asking me to confirm
I wish to unsubscribe, suggesting that I am not subscribed to cctalk.
There have only been a few responses to this thread so it appears that either:
1) There are very few people experiencing this problem.
or
2) All cctech subscribers are experiencing it and very few find it a problem.
or
2) All cctech subscribers are experiencing it and there are very few people
subscribed to cctech!
It doesn't look like this is going to be fixed quickly so I decided it's time
to do something before talk of cooking the Thanksgiving turkey turns to talk
of cooking the Christmas turkey. I decided that if I unsubscribe from cctech
and subscribe to cctalk, even though I will still get the off-topic stuff, I
should get a lot less mail because the on-topic stuff should only arrive once,
which is definately an improvement and will do for now.
In case I might miss anything important, like someone offering a free IBM 3420
on my doorstep, I decided to subscribe to cctalk first, wait until I start
getting three copies of everything and then unsubscribe from cctech.
So, I subscribed to cctalk (with the same address I use for cctech which on
reflection may not have been a good idea), replied to the confirmation email
and then received the "Welcome to cctalk" email. However, I have not started
getting three copies of anything. Everything is very much as before, one
copy from from cctalk and usually another some time later from cctech,
presumably after moderator approval.
I thought I was on to something when one message arrived twice from cctalk and
twice more from cctech but then I found that it appears to have been sent to:
On-Topic Posts <cctech at classiccmp.org>, General at classiccmp.org, and
Off-Topic
Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
so it's arrival here four times is consistent with previous behaviour.
So what next? I get the feeling that if I unsubscribe from cctech, I will
stop receiving anything at all and if I unsubscribe from cctalk, nothing will
happen.
Any suggestions?
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Me too. I tried unsubbing from cctech and was
told I wasn't
subscribed. So I've just left it, figuring Jay has bigger fish to fry
for the moment - if it really bugged me I'd procmail the cctech copy to
/dev/null. If it's still going on whenever it seems to me it's worth
mentioning again (a month? two?), I may see if Jay has the spare cycles
then to deal with it.
I?ve been getting the duplicates too and also haven?t said
anything for the
same reasons. I did check the ?List-" headers to see if I was getting a copy
from cctech, but it?s not coming from there. I suspect what?s happening is
the cctech is forwarding to cctalk, or has cctalk as a subscriber, and the
cctalk list is not checking or storing the Message-ID to prevent duplicate
messages.
Like you, I?m not an expert on mailman. The last time I ran a mailing list
I used procmail?s SmartList.
3 Dec
3 Dec
1:26 p.m.
New subject: List memberships and duplicates [was Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Robertson" <pinball at telus.net>
To: <General at classiccmp.org>; "Discussion at classiccmp.org:On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: List memberships and duplicates [was Re: Yay, now I need some
Osborne boot media!]
On 12/01/2014, 10:31 AM, Peter Coghlan wrote:
and
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:28:05 -0800 Chris Osborn
<fozztexx at fozztexx.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 24, 2014, at 1:14 PM, Mouse <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG> wrote:
>
>> Me too. I tried unsubbing from cctech and was told I wasn't
>> subscribed. So I've just left it, figuring Jay has bigger fish to fry
>> for the moment - if it really bugged me I'd procmail the cctech copy to
>> /dev/null. If it's still going on whenever it seems to me it's worth
>> mentioning again (a month? two?), I may see if Jay has the spare cycles
>> then to deal with it.
> I?ve been getting the duplicates too and also haven?t said anything for
the
> same reasons. I did check the ?List-" headers
to see if I was getting a
copy
>from cctech, but it?s not coming from there. I
suspect what?s happening
is
> the cctech is forwarding to cctalk, or has cctalk
as a subscriber, and
the
> cctalk list is not checking or storing the
Message-ID to prevent
duplicate
> messages.
>
> Like you, I?m not an expert on mailman. The last time I ran a mailing
list
I used
procmail?s SmartList.
I am still getting duplicate mails. To recap, I am subscribed to cctech
one copy of each duplicate is arriving with a cctech
From: address and the
second copy is arriving with a cctalk From: address. I have tried to
unsubscribe from cctalk but I never receive the email asking me to confirm
I wish to unsubscribe, suggesting that I am not subscribed to cctalk.
There have only been a few responses to this thread so it appears that
either:
1) There are very few people experiencing this problem.
or
2) All cctech subscribers are experiencing it and very few find it a
problem.
or
2) All cctech subscribers are experiencing it and there are very few
people
subscribed to cctech!
It doesn't look like this is going to be fixed quickly so I decided it's
time
to do something before talk of cooking the
Thanksgiving turkey turns to
talk
of cooking the Christmas turkey. I decided that if I
unsubscribe from
cctech
and subscribe to cctalk, even though I will still get
the off-topic stuff,
I
should get a lot less mail because the on-topic stuff
should only arrive
once,
which is definately an improvement and will do for
now.
In case I might miss anything important, like someone offering a free IBM
3420
on my doorstep, I decided to subscribe to cctalk
first, wait until I start
getting three copies of everything and then unsubscribe from cctech.
So, I subscribed to cctalk (with the same address I use for cctech which
on
reflection may not have been a good idea), replied to
the confirmation
email
and then received the "Welcome to cctalk"
email. However, I have not
started
getting three copies of anything. Everything is very
much as before, one
copy from from cctalk and usually another some time later from cctech,
presumably after moderator approval.
I thought I was on to something when one message arrived twice from cctalk
and
twice more from cctech but then I found that it
appears to have been sent
to:
On-Topic Posts <cctech at classiccmp.org>, General at classiccmp.org, and
Off-Topic
Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
so it's arrival here four times is consistent with previous behaviour.
So what next? I get the feeling that if I unsubscribe from cctech, I will
stop receiving anything at all and if I unsubscribe from cctalk, nothing
will
happen.
Any suggestions?
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
That is similar to what I am getting, except that I am subscribed to CCTALK.
and have never been subscribed to CCTECH.
Until someone with sufficient Mailman experience comes along, or someone
with a time machine to lend to Jay, I don't think this will be fixed for a
while.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
26 Nov
26 Nov
11:54 a.m.
New subject: List memberships and duplicates [was Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mouse" <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 9:14 PM
Subject: List memberships and duplicates [was Re: Yay, now I need some
Osborne boot media!]
Me too. I tried unsubbing from cctech and was told I wasn't
subscribed. So I've just left it, figuring Jay has bigger fish to fry
for the moment - if it really bugged me I'd procmail the cctech copy to
/dev/null. If it's still going on whenever it seems to me it's worth
mentioning again (a month? two?), I may see if Jay has the spare cycles
then to deal with it.
I'm not seeing the same thing. That may be the case on
some occasions, but the emails that I received today
that were duplicated *both* were addressed to cctech!
So I don't think I can set up a rule to delete the duplicate :(
You're probably signed up under two different
email addresses; check
the address on your incoming mail and if they're different unsub one
of them.
It looks like I'm getting one copy of each message with a cctech
From: address and a second copy of each with a cctalk From: address.
I suspect, though, that this is one of the things that's behind the
recent requests for mailman expertise, and that not much will happen
until someone(tm) picks up that task. (I sure don't have that
expertise, or I'd've spoken up; my interactions with mailman have been
as a listmember, not as any kind of admin.)
Agreed.
I'm surprised that there isn't (or doesn't yet appear to be)
anyone with sufficient mailman experience to help solve
the issues, considering the number of techy people on both
lists.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
24 Nov
24 Nov
1:51 p.m.
On 2014-Nov-24, at 12:53 PM, Peter Coghlan wrote:
I'm seeing occasional duplicates, say 5% of list traffic, but I am/was only on
cctalk.
Will have to look at some future ones to see if something distinguishes them.
You're
probably signed up under two different email addresses; check the
address on your incoming mail and if they're different unsub one of them.
Thanks for the suggestion Mike.
It looks like I'm getting one copy of each message with a cctech From: address
and a second copy of each with a cctalk From: address. My address looks
identical on all the mails. I've tried unsubscribing from cctalk (as I want to
stay on cctech, where I've always been) using:
http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/options/cctalk
It tells me "The confirmation email has been sent." but it never arrives here
and I keep getting two copies of everything.
I thought others might be having the same problem but I guess not otherwise
there would be a chorus of "Me too!" by now (Wasn't that <AOL>Me
too!</AOL>
at one time?)
So nobody else is seeing this behaviour then?
26 Nov
26 Nov
11:53 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Coghlan" <cctech at beyondthepale.ie>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!
I thought others might be having the same problem but
I guess not
otherwise
there would be a chorus of "Me too!" by now
(Wasn't that <AOL>Me
too!</AOL>
at one time?)
So nobody else is seeing this behaviour then?
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Me too!
I haven't tried unsubbing from cctech yet though. I keep
meaning to, but never get around to it. I just tried to see
if I had a cctech account, but nope... no joy ;(
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
3:05 p.m.
Update - A kind list member has offered to put together a few discs and
send them my way, and also provided me with some DOS tools that I might be
able to use to write some images - which I'd have to find, first.
So it looks like I'm covered for now. Thanks much, everyone.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Andrew Burton <aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Coghlan" <cctech at beyondthepale.ie>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!
I thought others might be having the same problem
but I guess not
otherwise
there would be a chorus of "Me too!" by
now (Wasn't that <AOL>Me
too!</AOL>
at one time?)
So nobody else is seeing this behaviour then?
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Me too!
I haven't tried unsubbing from cctech yet though. I keep
meaning to, but never get around to it. I just tried to see
if I had a cctech account, but nope... no joy ;(
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
24 Nov
24 Nov
10:46 a.m.
As things
sit, I don't even have a PC with a 5-1/4" drive installed, if (and that's
+if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format.
If you have any
serious intentions of vintage computer collecting, this
is a must have.
Maybe I'm more of a vintage computer user than a
collector or maybe I'm just
not serious but a VAXstation 2000 and a BBC Micro have managed to cope with
all of my 5-1/4" disk needs so far. As far as I'm concerned the hobby is
about what can be done without resorting to a PC, not what can be done with
one as a prerequisite or as some kind of fallback to be used for routine tasks.
In one sense I totally agree with you, and would much rather run a vintage computer
than a modern PC. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong in using whatever tools
you choose. Taken to extremes you could argue that you shouldn't use a logic
analyser to debug an Altair because few, if any, hobbyists who built Altairs
'back in the day' would have had one.
-tony
12:09 p.m.
[...], I
don't even have a PC with a 5-1/4" drive installed, [...]
If you have any
serious intentions of vintage computer collecting,
this is a must have.
10:48 p.m.
I thnik the
'must haves' depend very much on which aspect of this
hobby you are interested in.
And that, I agree with.
I'm not sure whether I have a PC with a 5-1/4" drive installed, because
it's been an age since I cared about reading a 5-1/4" floppy. My own
focus is on machines a bit more recent; I focus on things like Suns,
NeXTen, and Alphas. Occasion to care about floppies - of any size - is
somewhere between "very rare" and "never" for me.
5:14 a.m.
On 11/23/2014 07:38 PM, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
Well, *some* way of writing 5.25 media from downloaded images, anyway.
40t 5.25" drives are not particularly common these days, though. Available
for $25 or so via various channels still, it seems, but they're not kicking
around in hardware that's destined for recycling like they once were. I see
the odd 80t drive (once or twice a year) but of course they're useless for
writing 40t media.
cheers
Jules
As things
sit, I don't even have a PC with a 5-1/4" drive installed, if (and that's
+if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format.
If you have any
serious intentions of vintage computer collecting, this is
a must have.
9:05 a.m.
Now come to think, I do have both an original IBM PC and an XT. The PC has
dual 5.25" drives, the XT a single 5.25 + HDD. One of those is bound to be
the correct h/w format, right? What we want here is 360K physical, right?
It still leaves a chicken-and-egg problem, as neither of those machines
have any outward connectivity, nor do I have any media with something like
Laplink or an ISA NE2000 driver sitting around.
Oh well, in time, in time.. I made it this far without a bootable Osborne
Vixen, and it's not like the world will end on Tuesday.
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 7:14 AM, Jules Richardson <
jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/23/2014 07:38 PM, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
As things
Well, *some* way of writing 5.25 media from downloaded images, anyway.
40t 5.25" drives are not particularly common these days, though. Available
for $25 or so via various channels still, it seems, but they're not kicking
around in hardware that's destined for recycling like they once were. I see
the odd 80t drive (once or twice a year) but of course they're useless for
writing 40t media.
cheers
Jules
sit, I don't even have a PC with a
5-1/4" drive installed, if (and that's
+if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format.
If you have any serious intentions of vintage computer collecting, this is
a must have.
9:20 a.m.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014, drlegendre . wrote:
Now come to think, I do have both an original IBM PC
and an XT. The PC has
dual 5.25" drives, the XT a single 5.25 + HDD. One of those is bound to be
the correct h/w format, right? What we want here is 360K physical, right?
Both perfect machines for the task!
It still leaves a chicken-and-egg problem, as neither
of those machines
have any outward connectivity, nor do I have any media with something like
Laplink or an ISA NE2000 driver sitting around.
Yeah, you have two problems, . . .
have to get the data/image for the osborne onto the PC, and
need to write code to write Osborne disks (look at INT13h and INT1Eh)
Oh well, in time, in time.. I made it this far without
a bootable Osborne
Vixen, and it's not like the world will end on Tuesday.
more likely to be on a
Thursday; I never could quite get the hang of
Thursdays.
9:50 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "drlegendre ." <drlegendre at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!
Now come to think, I do have both an original IBM PC
and an XT. The PC has
dual 5.25" drives, the XT a single 5.25 + HDD. One of those is bound to be
the correct h/w format, right? What we want here is 360K physical, right?
It still leaves a chicken-and-egg problem, as neither of those machines
have any outward connectivity,
------------
No serial or parallel ports? Definitely a 'must have' ;-)
... nor do I have any media with something like Laplink or an ISA NE2000
driver sitting around.
-------------
A null-modem cable is your medium... another 'must have' ;-)
m
10:01 a.m.
> Now come to think, I do have both an original IBM
PC and an XT. The PC has
> dual 5.25" drives, the XT a single 5.25 + HDD. One of those is bound to be
> the correct h/w format, right? What we want here is 360K physical, right?
> It still leaves a chicken-and-egg problem, as neither of those machines
> have any outward connectivity,
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014, Mike Stein wrote:
No serial or parallel ports? Definitely a 'must
have' ;-)
Does the XT (5160) still have the "Asynch" card that IBM shipped it with?
That is RS232 and/or 20mA
> ... nor do I have any media with something like
Laplink or an ISA
> NE2000 driver sitting around.
A null-modem cable is your medium... another 'must
have' ;-)
Agreed
I would also add the IBM Technical Reference Manual to the "must have"
list. Information is the most important tool of all.
2:48 p.m.
On 11/24/2014 11:05 AM, drlegendre . wrote:
What we want here is 360K physical, right?
In PC parlance, yes. The XT's most likely to be right; the AT might have
"1.2MB" drives which will be no good - although they'll read 40-track media
OK, they won't write it reliably.
It still leaves a chicken-and-egg problem, as neither
of those machines
have any outward connectivity, nor do I have any media with something like
Laplink or an ISA NE2000 driver sitting around.
Do you use the XT often? If not, personally I'd drop that drive into
"something else" - even if it's a machine that just has a 3.5" drive
too,
where you can then sneakernet disk images via 3.5" media from a system that
does have 'net connectivity.
This is what I do currently; I do have ISA network boards kicking around, I
just haven't got the tuits together yet - but I expect even then I'll still
download on a modern system, and then FTP data across to the imaging
machine. Incidentally, I did get burned big-time by an apparent bug in the
FTP client I was using on my imaging system back in the UK, which resulted
in the trashing of my entire image archive (that imaging system's still in
storage, and I'm hoping the hard disk is still good when I eventually get
to it) - so I am a bit wary of DOS-based network connectivity!
I'm using a 40-track drive borrowed from my Tandy 1000 for imaging, just
because I know I have spare drives back in the UK which will be here
eventually, so I'm reluctant to spend money on more this side of the Atlantic!
cheers
Jules
9:10 a.m.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014, Jules Richardson wrote:
40t 5.25" drives are not particularly common
these days, though. Available
for $25 or so via various channels still, it seems, but they're not kicking
around in hardware that's destined for recycling like they once were. I see
the odd 80t drive (once or twice a year) but of course they're useless for
writing 40t media.
When used with virgin/degaussed media, they CAN make a usable disk, but
the original poster needs to reduce the number of variables, not increase
them, so they would certainly be not recommended.
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