test-drb December 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

243 participants
1096 discussions

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hi, after a quick excursion in getting a PDP8/A up and running (as far as that gets without any peripherals other than the programmers console :-), I'm now back to the big toy. The 6460 is still waiting to boot Ultrix. Recap: it's up and running from VMS 7.2 or VMX 5.6 from RA90 disks through KDB50 and KDM70. I don't have any working IP communication because the VMS 5.6 just doesn't have anything and 7.2 has MULTINET which just refuses to run with the old license key, nor with a cheat hack, nor with a hobbyist license key. So I'm now down to transferring files through modemspeed. (I could write a TK70 or 9-track tape at my workplace, but that's a hassle by itself, so I keep that as a last restort.) Luckily I have kermit on the VMS 7.2 so I have a convenient yet slow way of transferring files. I also have a boot tape from Isildur. That's Ultrix 4.1. That version seems to not support the 6400, it boots up until a certain point and then simply halts. I'm very sure it is *not* a tape read error and that the boot process fails somewhere after the VMB is loaded and probably at the point where vmunix is started. I assume it just can't get a hold of the console at that time to put out an error message and just dies. Even the primary ultrixload will dump an error message before it halts. The more recent developments: I also have an Ultrix-4.5 CD. But no CD ROM hooked to the VAX and no other VAX (InfoServer) with CD ROM and so I cannot boot that. I could possibly just write the CD ROM image onto a disk verbatim and fingers crossed boot from it. However, I cannot pump the 178 MB through the 9600 b/s line, or else I have to have that thing up for 2 days and two nights only for something that might just plain not work. Interestingly this CD is not an ISO file system but a simple UFS written to the CD in 10 kB blocks. FreeBSD's mount unfortunately cannot mount that. However, I just dd'ed an image onto disk and vnconfig - mount form there. It's read-only and disklabel doesn't make any sense out of it, but I can read everything just fine. Today's news: So, I decided I make myself a bootable tape from the reverse engineered Ultrix 4.1 boot tape and the new 4.5 files from the CD. The Ultrix boot tape comes with a vmunix that apparently has some sort of standalone memory root file system. Then it supposedly is able to set up a disk and install a dump backup onto that disk. That dump backup contains mkfs, disklabel, ifconfig, rcp, uncompress, and tar, so I have everything to set myself up even if the autoinstaller cannot deal with my hack. The boot tape I could read from VMS. $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/BLOCKSIZE=512/RECORD=512 MUC6 $ COPY MUC6: FILE.00 $ COPY MUC6: FILE.01 $ COPY MUC6: FILE.02 --> ERROR $ DISMOUNT MUC6: $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/BLOCK=10240/RECORD=10240 MUC6 $ SET MAGTAPE /SKIP=FILE:2 $ COPY MUC6: FILE.02 $ COPY MUC6: FILE.03 $ COPY MUC6: FILE.04 $ COPY MUC6: FILE.05 ... and so on. It's got some 40 or so files on it. What there files are we are being told from the ultrixload.c source code. FILE.00 is the ultrixload image, about 18 kB in size. Ultrixload is said to load either vmb.exe or a standalone kernel from a non-file structured device. The layout of the boot device is descibed as: FILE.00 - ultrixload FILE.01 - a combo consisting of - descriptor block 1 512 byte block - vmb.exe (optional) - vmunix (compressed if not a TK50) This magic descriptor block is described as: struct desc { union { char pad[512]; struct { struct exec x; /* a.out image header */ int nblks; /* num of 512 byte blocks on medium */ int vmbblks; /* size of VMB in 512 byte blocks */ int compressed; /* 1 = compressed, 0 = not compressed */ } d } un }; By loading the initial portions of the other files down to my BSD system and using file and stuff, I figured the other files: FILE.02 - the ROOT file system dump FILE.03 - an uncompressed tar of the instctl files (on the CD) FILE.04 - a compressed tar that is called ULTBASE450 on the CD FILE.05 - a compressed tar that is called ULTBIN450 on the CD ... and so on. The instctl tar begins with a file called ULT.image and that is just a list of files beginning with ROOT, ULTBASE, ULTBIN, that apparently correspond with the files on the tape in that order. So, my plan is to fiddle with files 0 and 1 only and keep the rest, as it should be compatible with the 4.5 kernel. That reduces the amount of data to transfer tremendously. Quickly I found that I have no ultrixload on the CD, so the old version will have to do. As I have strong indication that that works, I can leave it at that. Remains to work on file 1, that funny combo of descriptor, vmb.exe and vmunix. The tar file 4 (ULTBASE) contains a vmb.exe as well and so I could compare the two files that came with ultrix 4.1 and 4.5 respectively. They were both the same size and actually both the same. I successfully extracted another exact copy of vmb.exe using dd if=file.01 bs=512 of=vmb.exe skip=1 count=86 So, whatever VMB.EXE is for (sounds like a VMS boot block), I can reuse the old one. Given that I have a standalone vmunix, all I'd need to do is cut and paste that somewhere after block 86 to the end of file 1 with a few cat and dd operations. But here the problem starts. I cannot interpret the descriptor block very well. It tells me that the VMB.EXE is 86 blocks in size and that is exactly 44032 bytes, that corresponds with the actual size of the vmb.exe file from the tar archives. Good, but apparently the vmunix is not a complete piece. Apparently that descriptor block's a.out header slot actually holds the a.out header from the vmunix file and the vmunix file is right after the vmb.exe without it's a.out header. I also see a lot of 0 data in that region. So apparently I will have to fiddle with that a.out header and need to know just where to cut vmunix. That is a problem. I will try to figure that out somehow. My hunch is that the a.out block (which I haven't been fiddling with since I ported Kyoto Common Lisp to 386/BSD 0.1) allows for the executable to actually have some other stuff like that vmb.exe before the actual start of the executable image. I have no idea though what the purpose of this stupid vmb.exe is. All in all I'm optimistic. I'd love to make a boot tape with 4.5 Ultrix that I could then share with my friends (that is you) who also want to get their 6400s converted to Unix. As always I'd be thankful for any helpful ideas you might have. regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

22 years, 11 months

Heath/Zenith stuff

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

------Original Message------ From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> --- Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> wrote: > Your thinking of the Heath H11 which was in fact an LSI-11/02. But it had It shipped as an LSI-11/03 CPU and heath made memory and IO. My H-11 came with a KDF-11 CPU (11/23), but I don't know if it was shipped that way or if my boss (who bought it new) upgraded it himself. Yep, never shipped with 11/23 (KDF-11A). It was discontinued by then if anything. I have a couple of the Heath serial cards (one unsoldered!), the H-27 disk controller, the 8" floppies and a pile of misc DEC cards (memory, BDV-11 boot card, etc). The heath seriial card was a fairly flexible card copared to the usual DEC DL-11. to debug the H-27 (he never used it). Except for the monsterous holes he blew in the side to mount additional fans, and the holes in the front he added for external console baud rate switches, it resembles its original form once again. The fans and switches were a common mod and handy too. Allison __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

22 years, 11 months

Hep me!! scsi adapter DOS drivers (ot?)

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

--probably off topic... I am not sure of the age of the board but Adaptec seems to think it's not supportable any more... :^( Anybody have DOS ASPI drivers for the ADAPTEC AHA-1542CF?? Tis an ISA scsi card with floppy attach and I have it in a 486 machine ---------------------------------- The machine seems to be a 486dx in a "lunchbox" style case with color lcd. looks like a normal motherboard is inside.. goes by the name of PCIII, with no other markings as to MFG. Any one know anything about this?

22 years, 11 months

VAX 6400 booting saga: how to transfer binaries to VMS with kermit?

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hi, I'm ripping my hair out over VMS (as usual). I have a little magic file that I need to transfer from PC to VAX. And kermit on both ends. I thought I knew how to use kermit, but no matter what I do, the file will never work as an executable on the VAX. It always complains about a corrupt descriptor block and it comes up too long. The file is exactly 2048 bytes long and when I send it it comes up as 5/6 blocks with DIR/SIZE=ALL. That is one block too many, isn't it? The funny thing is, when I do a round trip with kermit PC -put-> VAX -get-> PC, I get two identical files on the PC. But when I do VAX -get-> PC -put-> VAX of a working .EXE file on the VAX, I end up with a broken copy (same error.) So, what can I do? I have SET FILE TYPE BINARY on both sides. I'm so sorry for bothering you with my VMS ignorance, I greatly appreciate your patience and help. regards -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

22 years, 11 months

Wanted: Tiger Learning Computer

by vcf＠vintage.org

I'm wanting to buy a Tiger Learning Computer from anyone who may have one they don't want. This was the kid computer released during Christmas of 1996 but only sold in limited numbers in the JC Penney 1996 Christmas catalog. It was Apple ][ compatible--it basically had enhanced Apple //e ROMs and used Flash ROM cards as an emulated Disk ][ drive. It had Appleworks built-in. Very nifty. I'm also open to trades. Any got one? This is my biggest want currently. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

22 years, 11 months

Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by CLeyson＠aol.com

In a message dated 31/12/01 Tony Duell writes >> Most of the engineers I work with have never heard of Amphenol or Cannon, >Then I would suggest you're working with engineers who are not > particularly knowledgable about practical electronics. If they're (say) > mechanical engineers or civil engineers, then no problem. If they claim > to tbe electronic engineers I'd probably dispute that claim. I agree, last year they couldn't even build a set of LED Christmas tree lights without blowing them up, never heard of constant current drive !!! I'm not talking about graduates straight out of college but people who've been in industry for a few years. In the engineering department I work in there is only ONE other true practical engineer who lays out his own PCBs, is keen to learn about new and emerging technologies etc. He is, like myself, mostly self taught, and has a passion for this stuff - a rare breed these days. But there we are - pay peanuts and get monkies. > Far too many courses (in all aspects of science and engineering) miss out > the simple practical stuff. Without which the complicated stuff is essentially > useless.. Agreed, I believe any so called engineer should have a practical "hands on" experience in both hardware and software, after all if they don't understand the basics they are of little use. >> On the subject of D-sub connectors I've sometimes come across some with >> metric threaded jackscrews instead of the usual UNF thread, or is it UNC ? > I thought it was 4-40 UNC.... Thanks Tony, wasn't sure of the thread. > FWIW, the stnadard for HPIB jackscrews is M3.5 (metric). I've had to make > such parts on occasions. One HP manual I was reading recently said that > the instrument used metric screws on the connectors, and that a > conversion kit (presumably consisting of 2 jackscrews) was available for > converting older HPIB cables. So I assume that the original HPIB used UNC > jackscrews (probably 6-32). One day I will have to do a search for the original IEEE-488 standard just to see what they specify. I suspect that jackscrew threads are not part of the standard. Chris

22 years, 11 months

Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment

by Golemancd＠aol.com

i agree about the os but i dont agree on the attempt part dont attempt it. do it. a computer is not that complex of a machine at least a pc. an os is all theory and vision. u can think up an entire os away from any pc. u could then just go in and code the entire thing. the hard part is thinking up what it is that u want and how it has to work. the coding and so forth is the easy part. this is the exact project i am working on now joee

22 years, 11 months

Happy Holidays!

by vcf＠vintage.org

Happy Holidays! *<:) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

22 years, 11 months

OT: Older inventory programs for home computers

by lgwalker＠mts.net

A local general purpose mechanic who mainly works on Ski-doos in the winter and pumps and everything else in the summer gave me a complete Adam (!) collecting dust on the shelf, when I told him I collect computers. He mentioned he could use an old box to keep track of his parts inventory if I had any spares. I volunteered to supply him with something that would serve simple needs thinking of everything from a C-64 to an A2 or an XT to a 386 and that there must be 100s of programs that would be available. And no I don't want to configure a Database program. I did a Google search and found only the newest Gee-Whiz Winblows 9x, 2k, XP, and OSX programs, and while I haven't searched Simtel, out of frustration I've decided to defer to the list about older programs to track inventory and if it also has billing and labour, so much the better. Any suggestions would be appreciated. It would serve as an example that older machines don't have to be delegated to land-fills. This area is in north- central Manitoba,Canada and not exactly a hotbed of technology. The temperature at present is -20 C, but the air is breathable. Lawrence Lawrence Reply to: lgwalker(a)mts.net

22 years, 11 months

One More PCB Dishwasher Question

by charlesleecourtney＠yahoo.com

Hi all, The thread on cleaning cards by running them through the dishwasher was timely as I am resurrecting an HP3000/XE. The system came from Pacific Pipe in Oakland and is the *filthest* system I have ever seen. The "computer room" on the second floor was left open to the work yard and all matter of dirt, dust, grime etc was sucked into the CPU, disc drive and tape. The CPU boards literally had a layer of grime covering them. Of course since this was an HP box it booted right up even though it was basically "clogged". Many of the HP cards have paper stickers indicating part number, revision, etc. Any thoughts on preserving these through a dishwasher cycle? Or should I just gently hand rinse? THanks! Lee Courtney __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

22 years, 11 months

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test-drb December 2001