27 Dec
2001
27 Dec
'01
1:03 a.m.
Hi all,
The thread on cleaning cards by running them through
the dishwasher was timely as I am resurrecting an
HP3000/XE. The system came from Pacific Pipe in
Oakland and is the *filthest* system I have ever seen.
The "computer room" on the second floor was left open
to the work yard and all matter of dirt, dust, grime
etc was sucked into the CPU, disc drive and tape. The
CPU boards literally had a layer of grime covering
them.
Of course since this was an HP box it booted right up
even though it was basically "clogged".
Many of the HP cards have paper stickers indicating
part number, revision, etc. Any thoughts on preserving
these through a dishwasher cycle? Or should I just
gently hand rinse? THanks!
Lee Courtney
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27 Dec
27 Dec
2:50 a.m.
Write down a description of where each of the labels are located on the
board, and carefully remove those labels for re-attachment after cleaning.
This is what I do to preserve labels. Usually the label adhesive on older
products is shot anyway - and the labels need to be attached again after
just minimal handling.
- Matt
At 07:03 AM 12/27/2001 -0800, you wrote:
Hi all,
The thread on cleaning cards by running them through
the dishwasher was timely as I am resurrecting an
HP3000/XE. The system came from Pacific Pipe in
Oakland and is the *filthest* system I have ever seen.
The "computer room" on the second floor was left open
to the work yard and all matter of dirt, dust, grime
etc was sucked into the CPU, disc drive and tape. The
CPU boards literally had a layer of grime covering
them.
Of course since this was an HP box it booted right up
even though it was basically "clogged".
Many of the HP cards have paper stickers indicating
part number, revision, etc. Any thoughts on preserving
these through a dishwasher cycle? Or should I just
gently hand rinse? THanks!
Lee Courtney
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066
Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...
6:24 a.m.
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10:36 a.m.
/On Thu, 27 Dec 2001 20:24:17 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell wrote:
#> Many of the HP cards have paper stickers indicating
#> part number, revision, etc. Any thoughts on preserving
#> these through a dishwasher cycle? Or should I just
#> gently hand rinse? THanks!
#
#A word of warning : HP have used some _very_ fragile stickers over the
#years. With ink that disolves in just about anything.
#
What I do is cover any label I want to save with clear packing tape, making sure to
overlap and seal the
edges. Then, I can clean with whatever I want, and the label is preserved.
Louis
1:17 p.m.
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11:28 a.m.
I've done that before, usually when I spray a sticker down with
Fantastic..... sometimes it'll strip the writing write off the plastic
sticker, other times it might smear it a little bit. My usual reaction
is oops :-)
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
Tony Duell wrote:
A word of warning : HP have used some _very_ fragile
stickers over the
years. With ink that disolves in just about anything.
As I mentioned the other day I recently restored an HP97 calculator. The
case was pretty dirty so after stripping everything out of it I used my
standard foam cleaner (an Electrolube product) to clean it.
On the back of the case was a label which originally said something like
'Use only the HP charger specified in the instruction manual'. After
cleaning the case it was completely blank :-(. I peeled off the remains
of it -- no point in having a blank label on the machine.
Now, as I wanted the machine to use rather than collect, and as the label
didn't tell me anything important, I'm not too bothered. But had it been
something like a revision code, I'd have been annoyed.
So I would recomend recording all the details on labels on HP boards and
cases (or photographing them, or whatever) before attempting to clean the
unit.
-tony
28 Dec
28 Dec
1:19 a.m.
Never run boards through a dishwasher!
This has got to be one of the most insane ideas I've ever heard.
Commercial PCB's do get washed, but only after the water has
been deionized with some rather expensive and high maintainance
equipment.
I'm quite sure that manufacturers don't go through the expense of
maintaining
this gear if your maytag washer could do the job.
Lots of domestic water supplies have 'hard water' and.or high mineral
content
that will dammage or destroy your boards. Maybe not while they are in
the
washer, but corrosion may set in later.
lee courtney wrote:
Hi all,
The thread on cleaning cards by running them through
the dishwasher was timely as I am resurrecting an
HP3000/XE. The system came from Pacific Pipe in
Oakland and is the *filthest* system I have ever seen.
The "computer room" on the second floor was left open
to the work yard and all matter of dirt, dust, grime
etc was sucked into the CPU, disc drive and tape. The
CPU boards literally had a layer of grime covering
them.
Of course since this was an HP box it booted right up
even though it was basically "clogged".
Many of the HP cards have paper stickers indicating
part number, revision, etc. Any thoughts on preserving
these through a dishwasher cycle? Or should I just
gently hand rinse? THanks!
Lee Courtney
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
1:59 a.m.
How many times do we need to go through this?
It's perfectly fine to use your dishwasher!!!!!!!!!!!
The fact is that many PCB manufacturers use the very same equipment during
manufacture - and many do not use water filtration of deionizing facilities.
The design and use of the board dictates the treatment that needs to be
applied to the water source. Of course, if you use water directly from the
Mississippi River, you probably need to use a filter....
Check previous posts regarding this subject. You will see insight from
people that, like myself, are in this business currently or have experience
with board cleaning and preparation.
I run EVERYTHING through the dishwaser, with the exception of transformers
and large filter capacitors.
I've placed entire computers (minus hard drive - but WITH power supply and
floppy drive) into the dishwasher. I did this many, many times. Both
personally and professionally I have not had a SINGLE failure.
Using a dishwasher on your PC boards will not destroy them. Do not use
harsh detergents, or the plate warming or drying features. Dry the boards
completely. Do not wash boards such as core memory boards for mechanical
stress reasons.
I'm amazed at how many professionals use dishwashers to clean PCBs for a
variety of hobbies, and openly discuss and encourage the use of this
method, and the number of people who say you just can't do it - or it can't
work - or you'll destroy the boards.
- Matt
P.S. - If you think that all of the electronic stuff you buy has been
cleaned by a very expensive and high maintenance water filtration solution,
then you are sadly mistaken. I've worked for companies that use this method
without filtration, and consulted for a few others. You have their devices
in your home, in your car, and on the planes you fly in.
At 10:19 AM 12/28/2001 -0500, you wrote:
Never run boards through a dishwasher!
This has got to be one of the most insane ideas I've ever heard.
Commercial PCB's do get washed, but only after the water has
been deionized with some rather expensive and high maintainance
equipment.
I'm quite sure that manufacturers don't go through the expense of
maintaining
this gear if your maytag washer could do the job.
Lots of domestic water supplies have 'hard water' and.or high mineral
content
that will dammage or destroy your boards. Maybe not while they are in
the
washer, but corrosion may set in later.
lee courtney wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The thread on cleaning cards by running them through
> the dishwasher was timely as I am resurrecting an
> HP3000/XE. The system came from Pacific Pipe in
> Oakland and is the *filthest* system I have ever seen.
> The "computer room" on the second floor was left open
> to the work yard and all matter of dirt, dust, grime
> etc was sucked into the CPU, disc drive and tape. The
> CPU boards literally had a layer of grime covering
> them.
>
> Of course since this was an HP box it booted right up
> even though it was basically "clogged".
>
> Many of the HP cards have paper stickers indicating
> part number, revision, etc. Any thoughts on preserving
> these through a dishwasher cycle? Or should I just
> gently hand rinse? THanks!
>
> Lee Courtney
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066
Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...
3:22 a.m.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Bob Shannon wrote:
Never run boards through a dishwasher!
Oh no, not this thread again :)
This has got to be one of the most insane ideas
I've ever heard.
Well, I guess I must be insane then, as I've washed 1000s of boards over
the years without a single failure. Paper labels on the other hand, don't
like water very much.
Commercial PCB's do get washed, but only after the
water has been
deionized with some rather expensive and high maintainance equipment.
Don't assume that.
I'm quite sure that manufacturers don't go
through the expense of
maintaining this gear if your maytag washer could do the job.
Most manufacturers have board washers that are the equivalent of large
commercial dishwashers, often outfitted with special racks or conveyor
belts. If a typical maytag would be large enough to hold the volume of
boards produced, and hold up to 24/7 use, I bet they would use one, as the
cost would be considerably lower.
Lots of domestic water supplies have 'hard
water' and.or high mineral
content that will dammage or destroy your boards. Maybe not while
they are in the washer, but corrosion may set in later.
Soft water is much worse, I assure you. It usually contains salt or
alkaline additives which in large amounts can attack certain metal alloys.
(I would not wash boards from a supply with an in-line water softener, but
public water is generally ok.)
-Toth
5:10 a.m.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Bob Shannon wrote:
Never run boards through a dishwasher!
This has got to be one of the most insane ideas I've ever heard.
Commercial PCB's do get washed, but only after the water has
been deionized with some rather expensive and high maintainance
equipment.
I'm quite sure that manufacturers don't go through the expense of
maintaining
this gear if your maytag washer could do the job.
Actually, the IBM Interconnect Manufacturing Process Development Lab uses
a Whirlpool, not a Maytag.
Lots of domestic water supplies have 'hard
water' and.or high mineral
content
that will dammage or destroy your boards. Maybe not while they are in
the
washer, but corrosion may set in later.
I'm sure that filtering the water wouldn't hurt, but even DI water will
damage your board if you don't remove it from the board quickly. I.E.
don't air-dry the board.
Peace... Sridhar
2 Jan
2 Jan
1:09 p.m.
Well, to add my two (or more) cents, putting the boards in a dishwasher
is certainly not an insane idea. It would be a good idea though to rinse
them in distilled or DI water before drying them.
DI water is not an expensive proposition at all. Almost any water
company can supply the DI cartridges, and they take care of all the
maintenance. The units I used to rent cost about $30.00 per month and
would last about a month and IIRC provide several thousand gallons of DI
water. I might add our water was (again IIRC) about 12 ppm as far as
hardness was concerned.
As far as using a home dishwasher, the primary difference between the
home and commercial units is how long they are intended to last. A home
dishwasher is used by several people I know who own small businesses
where it is not given a lot of use and is wholly adequate for their
purposes.
Bob Shannon wrote:
Never run boards through a dishwasher!
This has got to be one of the most insane ideas I've ever heard.
Commercial PCB's do get washed, but only after the water has
been deionized with some rather expensive and high maintainance
equipment.
I'm quite sure that manufacturers don't go through the expense of
maintaining
this gear if your maytag washer could do the job.
Lots of domestic water supplies have 'hard water' and.or high mineral
content
that will dammage or destroy your boards. Maybe not while they are in
the
washer, but corrosion may set in later.
lee courtney wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The thread on cleaning cards by running them through
> the dishwasher was timely as I am resurrecting an
> HP3000/XE. The system came from Pacific Pipe in
> Oakland and is the *filthest* system I have ever seen.
> The "computer room" on the second floor was left open
> to the work yard and all matter of dirt, dust, grime
> etc was sucked into the CPU, disc drive and tape. The
> CPU boards literally had a layer of grime covering
> them.
>
> Of course since this was an HP box it booted right up
> even though it was basically "clogged".
>
> Many of the HP cards have paper stickers indicating
> part number, revision, etc. Any thoughts on preserving
> these through a dishwasher cycle? Or should I just
> gently hand rinse? THanks!
>
> Lee Courtney
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
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