31 Dec
2001
31 Dec
'01
11:14 a.m.
In a message dated 31/12/01 Tony Duell writes
Thanks Tony, wasn't sure of the thread.
> Most of the engineers I work with have never heard
of Amphenol or Cannon,
Then I would suggest you're working with engineers
who are not
particularly knowledgable about practical electronics. If they're (say)
mechanical engineers or civil engineers, then no problem. If they claim
to tbe electronic engineers I'd probably dispute that claim.
I agree, last year they couldn't even build a set of LED Christmas tree lights
without blowing them up, never heard of constant current drive !!! I'm not
talking
about graduates straight out of college but people who've been in industry
for a
few years. In the engineering department I work in there is only ONE other
true
practical engineer who lays out his own PCBs, is keen to learn about new and
emerging technologies etc. He is, like myself, mostly self taught, and has a
passion for this stuff - a rare breed these days. But there we are - pay
peanuts
and get monkies.
Far too many courses (in all aspects of science and
engineering) miss out
the simple practical stuff. Without which the complicated stuff is
essentially
useless..
Agreed, I believe any so called engineer should have a practical "hands on"
experience in both hardware and software, after all if they don't understand
the
basics they are of little use.
On the
subject of D-sub connectors I've sometimes come across some with
metric threaded jackscrews instead of the usual UNF thread, or is it UNC ?
I
thought it was 4-40 UNC.... FWIW, the stnadard for HPIB jackscrews is M3.5
(metric). I've had to make
such parts on occasions. One HP manual I was reading recently said that
the instrument used metric screws on the connectors, and that a
conversion kit (presumably consisting of 2 jackscrews) was available for
converting older HPIB cables. So I assume that the original HPIB used UNC
jackscrews (probably 6-32).
One day I will have to do a search for the original IEEE-488 standard just to
see what they specify. I suspect that jackscrew threads are not part of the
standard.
Chris
31 Dec
31 Dec
12:08 p.m.
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8:58 a.m.
From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 02:08:07 +0000 (GMT)
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Then I would suggest you're working with engineers
who are not
particularly knowledgable about practical electronics. If they're (say)
mechanical engineers or civil engineers, then no problem. If they claim
to tbe electronic engineers I'd probably dispute that claim.
I agree, last year they couldn't even build a set of LED Christmas tree lights
without blowing them up, never heard of constant current drive !!! I'm not The answer? An LED current limiting resistor.
Apparently he'd taken the
Snip!
I've come to the conclusion that the best
(electronic?) engineers and
programmers are all essentially self-taught. It's probably much the same
in all creative subjects.
Practical experience and hard knocks school is your best teacher
, I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is
required. Straightening out those mistakes if you can discover is
excellent way to learn.
[...]
> Agreed, I believe any so called engineer should have a practical "hands
on"
> experience in both hardware and software, after all if they don't understand
> the
> basics they are of little use.
I wonder if the HPIB spec (if it was ever published)
specifies the
jackscrew threads.
Might be not existent.
4-40 is right for those kind.
-tony
Cheers,
Wizard
1 Jan
1 Jan
2:03 a.m.
Practical experience and hard knocks school is your
best teacher
, I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is
required.
Does that also apply to Nuclear Weapons Engineers?
jpero(a)sympatico.ca wrote:
From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony
Duell)
Subject: Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 02:08:07 +0000 (GMT)
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Then I would suggest you're working with engineers
who are not
particularly knowledgable about practical electronics. If they're (say)
mechanical engineers or civil engineers, then no problem. If they claim
to tbe electronic engineers I'd probably dispute that claim.
I agree, last year they couldn't even build a set of LED Christmas tree lights
without blowing them up, never heard of constant current drive !!! I'm not The answer? An LED current limiting resistor.
Apparently he'd taken the
Snip!
I've come to the conclusion that the best
(electronic?) engineers and
programmers are all essentially self-taught. It's probably much the same
in all creative subjects.
Practical experience and hard knocks school is your best teacher
, I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is
required. Straightening out those mistakes if you can discover is
excellent way to learn.
[...]
> Agreed, I believe any so called engineer should have a practical "hands
on"
> experience in both hardware and software, after all if they don't understand
> the
> basics they are of little use.
I wonder if the HPIB spec (if it was ever
published) specifies the
jackscrew threads.
Might be not existent.
4-40 is right for those kind.
-tony
Cheers,
Wizard 
1:56 a.m.
Ian Koller wrote:
Yes ... providing to keep your 'Blow up's outdoors. They can't
replace
a new lab every other week.:)
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
Practical experience and hard knocks school is
your best teacher
, I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is
required.
Does that also apply to Nuclear Weapons Engineers?
2:23 a.m.
see below, plz.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Koller" <vze2mnvr(a)verizon.net
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
Always has up to now ...
Why on earth does
that worry you? I routinely spray my keyboards with "409"
and subsequently hose them off in the kitchen sink after thoroughly brushing
them to get the glutch off. CocaCola, Beer, Eggnog, and other beverages,
not to mention sauerkraut, mustard, and other substances you'd not normally
apply to a keyboard have all been removed painlessly and without impact on
proper function of the keyboard. Afterwards, I simply spray them with hot
water and allow the keyboard to drip-dry.
It's not a bad thing to calculate the ideal
value before looking to see what
you've got that's close.
>
> > > I've come to the conclusion that the best (electronic?) engineers
and
> > > programmers are all essentially self-taught. It's probably much the
same
> > > in all creative subjects.
> > > Practical experience and hard knocks
school is your best teacher
> > , I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is
> > required. Straightening out those mistakes if you can discover is
> > excellent way to learn.
> > > > [...]
> > > > > >
Agreed, I believe any so called engineer should have a practical
"hands on"
> > > I wonder if the HPIB spec (if it
was ever published) specifies the
> > > jackscrew threads.
> > > Might be not existent.
> > > 4-40 is right for those kind.
> > > > -tony
> > > Cheers,
> > > Wizard
Practical experience and hard knocks school is
your best teacher
, I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is
required.
Does that also apply to Nuclear Weapons Engineers?
jpero(a)sympatico.ca wrote:
> > From:
ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> > Subject: Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find
> > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
> > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 02:08:07 +0000 (GMT)
> > Reply-to: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
> > > >Then I would suggest
you're working with engineers who are not
> > > > particularly knowledgable about practical electronics. If they're
(say)
> > > > mechanical engineers or civil
engineers, then no problem. If they
claim
> > > > to tbe electronic engineers
I'd probably dispute that claim.
> > > > > I
agree, last year they couldn't even build a set of LED Christmas
tree lights
> > > without blowing them up, never heard of
constant current drive !!!
I'm not
>
> > Do you own a suitably large LART?
> > > I must have told the story of the
362.8 ohm resistor. In case I
haven't,
> > it goes like this.
> > > I was working in a lab at a
university over here when some final year
> > engineering student asked me for a 362.8 ohm resistor 'as there are
none
in the drawer'. I said that I was not suprised,
and asked him what on
earth he needed it for.
Glug! Almost sprayed water on my precious IBM keyboard.!
Even 180 Ohms is good enough driven directly from TTL. :-)
> > The answer? An LED current limiting resistor. Apparently he'd taken
the
> > > experience in both hardware and
software, after all if they don't
understand
> > > > the basics they are of little use.
> 
4:47 a.m.
On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
Always has
up to now ...
Practical experience and hard knocks school is your
best teacher
, I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is
required.
Does that also apply to Nuclear Weapons Engineers? Why on earth does that worry you? I routinely spray
my keyboards with "409"
and subsequently hose them off in the kitchen sink after thoroughly brushing
them to get the glutch off. CocaCola, Beer, Eggnog, and other beverages,
not to mention sauerkraut, mustard, and other substances you'd not normally
apply to a keyboard have all been removed painlessly and without impact on
proper function of the keyboard. Afterwards, I simply spray them with hot
water and allow the keyboard to drip-dry.
I do hope that you shut-down the system before doing so.
11:31 p.m.
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 11:03:20AM -0500, Ian Koller wrote:
Until a very short time ago: yes. Most final testing consisted of
getting the latest design to go <KABOOM> and check if it worked as
designed (and sometimes it worked much better ... giving a nasty
surprise).
Regards,
Alex.
--
q: If you were young again, would you start writing TeX again or would
you use Microsoft Word, or another word processor?
a: I hope to die before I *have* to use Microsoft Word.
-- Harald Koenig <koenig(a)tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de> asking Donald E. Knuth
Practical experience and hard knocks school is
your best teacher
, I agree. Blow up, screw up some stuff as you learn as you go on is
required.
Does that also apply to Nuclear Weapons Engineers?
9:31 a.m.
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5:01 a.m.
Tony wrote:
Not this time, I lost one or two and seen other keyboards that has
conductive ink for both traces and contacts. Even that flimsy
plastic IBM keyboard that came with original PS/1 is same design as
heavy PS/2 keyboards except that things go together is held
together by both top and bottom halves via snaps and two screws.
That traces corroded when water got in, and had to take it apart to
repair that.
Kept dry and mop up spills instantly that keyboard I type on last
forever.
What? For HPIB connectors? I don't think that's right. All the books I've
looked in specifies M3.5. And that's what I've used with no problems at
all for home-made jackposts (have you ever tried to buy them in the UK?).
Sorry, I was thinking of this 4-40 for D-shell fasteners.
Cheers,
Wizard
Glug! Almost
sprayed water on my precious IBM keyboard.!
Err, it's an IBM keyboard. It'll survive things like that :-) But if you make such a mistake once, then you should
learn from it and
not do the same thing n times in the future. That's the sort of mistake
that I object to.
Hmmm... Mistakes is fewer if one make certain his knowledge is good
by cross checking the info from more than one sources. And 'net is
useful too. But knowledge you gained from school doesn't replace
that practical experience, both goes together and lose that
atittudes then you'll will do very well there in wild. :-)
I wonder if the HPIB spec (if it was ever published)
specifies the
jackscrew threads.
Might be not existent.
4-40 is right for those kind. 
31 Dec
31 Dec
4:18 p.m.
On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
Do you own a suitably large LART?
<snip>
Then I would suggest you're working with engineers
who are not
particularly knowledgable about practical electronics. If they're (say)
mechanical engineers or civil engineers, then no problem. If they claim
to tbe electronic engineers I'd probably dispute that claim.
I agree, last year they couldn't even build a set of LED Christmas tree lights
without blowing them up, never heard of constant current drive !!! I'm not I would not trust a 'software engineer' who
couldn't actually write a
working program, an 'electronic engineer' who couldn't design a circuit,
make the PCB and solder it up, or a 'mechanical engineer; who couldn't make
a simple heat engine (or similar). You may argue that much of engineering
these days is not about making things, and that engineers rarely need
these skills (that is a separate rant). But unless you understand the
basics, and the practical side of the subject, then IMHO you are not
going to be much of an engineer.
I quite agree, Tony. During my pre-senior highschool year summer
vacation I was afforded the opportunity to work in the model shop of the
local Westinghouse plant. During that summer, I learned to use an
engine lathe, shaper, milling machine, and both gas and arc welding
equipment. I do not mean to imply that I was - or even thought I was -
a journeyman machinist after that exposure, but I certainly learned some
useful skills and a hell of a lot about manufacturability. I also
learned that a drill press is one of the most subtly dangerous machines
in a shop. Interest and curiousity are the major prerequisites for
being a successful technician or engineer, IMHO.
- don
-tony
1 Jan
1 Jan
7:13 a.m.
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10:02 a.m.
Mainly because people think it's just like a larger
version of the DIY
electric drill. They don't bother to clamp the workpiece. They hand-hold
it, and when the drill bit 'grabs' (especially if they've not ground the
right cutting angles on it) then the workpiece spins round and removes
their fingers...
What always got my attention was when someone would be using
a table saw and it'd catch the piece of wood and shoot it back
through the garage door 15-20 feet behind the operator. Nobody will
ever have to tell me not to stand directly behind the piece I'm
cutting ever again.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
10:19 a.m.
Mainly because people think it's just like a
larger version of the DIY
electric drill.
right cutting angles on it) then the workpiece spins round and removes
their fingers...
They can rip off a scalp too if you get long hair wrapped up
in them.
Tony Duell wrote:
I quite agree, Tony. During my pre-senior
highschool year summer
vacation I was afforded the opportunity to work in the model shop of the
local Westinghouse plant. During that summer, I learned to use an
engine lathe, shaper, milling machine, and both gas and arc welding
equipment. I do not mean to imply that I was - or even thought I was -
a journeyman machinist after that exposure, but I certainly learned some
Exactly. I don't expect mechanical engineers to be the world's best
machinists (Most of the skills needed for that come from a lifetime's
practice and experience). But I am not going to trust a mechanical
engineer who's never used a lathe. And I am certainly not going to trust
one who doesn't know what a lathe is, and what it's used for.
useful skills and a hell of a lot about
manufacturability. I also
learned that a drill press is one of the most subtly dangerous machines
in a shop. Interest and curiousity are the major prerequisites for
Mainly because people think it's just like a larger version of the DIY
electric drill. They don't bother to clamp the workpiece. They hand-hold
it, and when the drill bit 'grabs' (especially if they've not ground the
right cutting angles on it) then the workpiece spins round and removes
their fingers...
-tony
1:04 p.m.
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3 Jan
3 Jan
12:07 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
> Mainly because people think it's just like a larger version of the DIY
> electric drill. They don't bother to clamp the workpiece. They hand-hold
> it, and when the drill bit 'grabs' (especially if they've not ground the
> right cutting angles on it) then the workpiece spins round and removes
> their fingers...
Hmm, I have a set of scars on my left hand due to that.
I can still line up the scars to match the position
they were in when it "bit".
- John
1 Jan
1 Jan
1:23 p.m.
New subject: Gears (was Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find)
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
The topic of machining make me ask if anyone here can tell me how to
measure a gear to shop for a replacement. About all I know is that it
has 14 teeth and it approximately 0.125" in diameter and length. It
is one of the two smallest gears in a Commodore 1520 plotter - this
particular one fits on the shaft that when rotated, causes the paper
to move up and down past the pens. There is another of the same size that
is the smallest in the chain to move the pens from side to side. Both
of mine are cracked parallel to the axis and do not grip their shafts
tightly enough for reliable movement (the paper stalls vertically and
the pens don't meet the pen-change finger with enough force to rotate
the pen carriage).
I would love to buy a small bag of replacements (I have this 1520 and
an Atari with an identical mechanism) I know from other discussions that
this part is the weak link and breaks under stress eventually, so with
two plotters, I'd be happy to have 4 gears and at least 8 spares. If
I have to buy a minimum order from some place, so be it. I can always
make them available to others to spread out the costs.
What I don't know how to do is what to measure so I can see who might have
a replacement. I am not an ME and have had only little experience with
gears (beyond basic modelling in my one and only FORTRAN class). I know
they have parameters like pitch etc., but I'm just not sure what numbers
are the critical ones for ordering a replacement.
Thanks,
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
... I learned
to use an engine lathe, shaper, milling machine...
...I am certainly not going to trust one who doesn't know what a lathe
is, and what it's used for.
1:56 p.m.
New subject: Gears (was Re: Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find)
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4 a.m.
Then I would suggest you're working with engineers
who are not
particularly knowledgable about practical electronics. If they're (say)
mechanical engineers or civil engineers, then no problem. If they claim
to tbe electronic engineers I'd probably dispute that claim.
I agree, last year they couldn't even build a set of LED Christmas tree lights
without blowing them up, never heard of constant current drive !!! I'm not
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18 comments
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donm＠cts.com -
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erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
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