test-drb November 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

211 participants
749 discussions

by peter.pachla＠wintermute.org.uk

Can anyone please point me at a complete(ish) list of all the various PDP/VAX related DEC handbooks? TIA. TTFN - Pete. -- Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk | peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk | peter.pachla(a)virgin.net | peter.pachla(a)wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk --

24 years, 10 months

DEC Handbooks

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Best list I know of is the list Megan has on her web pages, sorry don't >have the URL. Thanks for the compliment... http://world.std.com/~mbg/dec_handbooks.html And the companion list of DEC reference cards: http://world.std.com/~mbg/dec_refcards.html >Someone, whose name escapes me (something like Kevin Stumpf maybe), is >working on a list for a book he's doing (he's a list member and asked >about this a few months ago). Yep, he's the one... I basically put my list together to send to him, then I turned it into a web page (which still needs work). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

24 years, 10 months

Fireproofing questions

by truthanl＠oclc.org

-----Original Message----- From: Aaron Christopher Finney [mailto:af-list@is1.wfi-inc.com] Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 8:22 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Fireproofing questions Hi all, .. I placed a hot clothes iron on the outer wall and measured the temperature/rate of climb on the inner wall, as well as the ambient temperature inside the cabinet. It was enough that, even with a comparatively small heat source (well, to a garage fire, anyway), anything within a few inches of the inner wall would have most definitely been damaged, and possibly items close to the center after a half-hour of exposure to the heat source. Aaron asks: is there something anyone could recommend that would make a good lining for the inner walls of the cabinet to insulate it from heat? Drywall/ sheetrock/ Gypsum Board. Clipped or cemented in place. Its common, Its Flat, the Gypsum part wont flame. Its Fire rated. The expanding foam is definately NOT what you want. Its chemical composition provides fuel and oxygen to fire. If you have voids to fill - Plaster? OR High Density FiberGlass Panels as in Commercial Drop-Cieling Panel Tiles. This stuff is densely pressed, (Often embossed with a pattern) The Commercial grade panels are somewhat rigid - but also fire rated for close proximity to commercial lighting. Note the stuff is pressed class fiber - Not impregnated, bound, or laminated with epoxy or polyester resin. The resins also support Flame with out need of too much oxygen.

24 years, 10 months

VAXStation 3100 problems :(

by ndiablo＠diablonet.net

Well, I can tell you that the "1" means that the network interface is not terminated.. hook up a transciever to the AUI port or put some terminators on the BNC port and that error should go away.. I can't quite remember what "4" is though ;) -Sean Caron (root(a)diablonet.net)

24 years, 10 months

Customs Tricks (was: Re: Whoohoo! Fortune Telling...

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 13, 1999 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Customs Tricks (was: Re: Whoohoo! Fortune Telling... >Rumor has it that John B may have mentioned these words: > >>>Which *your* do you mean? On which side of the creek do you reside? ;-) >> >>I reside in Canada.... > >O.K. I'm on the US side in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan. One thing I can tell >you that here we only have 2 donut shops, and they're pretty decent - in a >city of 14,000 it doesn't pay to kill off the locals... ;-) (Sault, Ontario >has over 80,000 people, I believe, so they have more donut shops to choose >from.) If ever we all meet in Niagara Falls, New York, avoid the donut shops! > OLC has an office up there. To be fair to the province they have their quarterly meetings in each "quadrant" of Ontario.. He complains about the Sault.. >>You got it! Yes sir, no sir, can I wipe your.... > >:-) Ain't that the truth! :-) > >>In Canada they move the agents A LOT! They make sure you won't get someone >>you know everytime... plus a lot of summer students. > >Wow... must be that small-town stuff again. Most all agents even on the >Canadian side here are over 30, so either they're *really* old students or >they don't have access to many students up here. On the US side here, >someone has to die if you want a job at Customs, so I'm somewhat chummy >with most of the officers here. [[And that's the "important" side for me... >Canada's usually quite easy: "Citizenship?" US. (sometimes with a thumb >pointed south... ;-) "Why're ya coming to Canada?" Shop. "How long you >gonna be here?" Couplhours. "Bringing anything?" Nah. "Go ahead."]] HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAH... Verbatim... Our line is always: Where are you going? Factory outlet malls on Military Road. (A lot more believable if my wife is in the car ;-) ) > >Oh, and don't think the fact your car/truck is nice and shiny and clean and >tuned will that keep you from getting stopped. Luck has everything to do >with it, and if the officer you pull up to got lucky the night before, it's >a breeze. If not... :-( Agreed. > >I went to Canada once, wearing greasy sweats, hadn't shaved for a week and >wore a baseball cap that said "Candy is dandy but sex won't rot your teeth" >;-), truck barely ran, needed brakes & squealed badly whenever you appled >them, muddy as hell, was an *absolute* mess (including 2 US military >uniforms crumpled on the passanger side), the bed of the truck was full of >trash, most of which was vegetative (which is a *big* no-no when crossing >the border) and the guard asked my citizenship, looked at me funny and >waved me thru. > >The next week: fixed, tuned & washed the truck, cleaned, vacuumed and >dusted the interior, cleaned out the bed fully, was dressed in a white >shirt and tie, fresh haircut... and Bam! The only time I've been pulled >over at Canadian Customs. The truck got tagged, they pulled me into the >shack, and I got grilled for 20 minutes about everything from what I had >for breakfast to the color of my underwear. And... interrogations from >border guards are akin to the CIA... They don't *ask* questions. > I have seen it happen many times. More often I watch people get busted for hiding booze in the spare tire. Funniest one was once I saw this car speed through.. sirens went off, and the trunk popped open.. A bunch of Immigrants went running in every direction. >"Yes, Mr. .... Merfriglburger" > "That's Mer\sssh\berger" >"Yea, whatever. You work at Can-Am?" > "Yes." >"And you make $3.75 per hour?" > "Yes." (getting a bit upset at that...) >"You crossed into Canada 6 1/2 days ago?" > "Yes." (thinking... Damn, I'd love to see their network system!) > (This was 13-14 years ago, after all...) >"And you *say* you're coming here for the same reason this week?" > "Yes, the Radio Shack still has a sale on, and I got paid today." >"Yea, whatever. How much money do you have on your person?" > (I *damn* near said "You know everything else about me... > you don't know that, too?" Gratefully, I held my forked tongue ;-) > "Hummmm... $65-odd cash Canadian, and I guess around $45-$50 US." > (and yes, you can be refused entry into *either* country > based on vagrancy - If you don't have enough cash to sustain It works both ways.. You get tossed if you don't have enough or you get beaten with drug charges if you have more than $10K. > you during your stay in said foriegn land, you'll be sent packing.) >"Thank you. Please replace all of your personal items and be on your way." > >I stepped outside and everything but the steering wheel & seat were removed >from my truck... including the contents of the glove compartment & other >places of "personal" storage. > >[[Editor's note - I'm not just picking on Canadian Customs - Years ago >(when I was an infant, so that's ~30 years ago) my parents were coming back >into the US when US customs stopped them, tore the car apart *including the >seats*. When they were all done, they said "You can go. You have 15 minutes >to be out of the building." *thankfully* my dad is one hell of a mechanic >and had a full toolset with him and could reinstall the seats in a few >minutes - despite the fact the tools were spread in a 10 foot radius around >the car. No joke.]] > >Customs can be your friend, or they can be the most sadistic bastards >you've ever known. Be nice to them even if they're assholes - or you'll >regret it if you do any border crossing at all. > Sadistic?? HAM RADIO GUYS CAN BE SADISTIC. I use to go to hamfests to pick up pdp 11 stuff. One year there was a show in Buffalo (convention center I think).. A Ham Radio guy I knew was still pissed off with the stuff I got from the last Ham Fest (he missed it as I got there early)... so what did he do???? He called the US Customs office. Gave them MY plate, car, and where I was going... He told them I was smuggling RAM chips in the car. (remember when a meg of Dynamic Ram was $1000?). Well, when I pulled up I heard 3 buzzers go off. They customs guy asked me who I was.. took my license and *told* me to pull over. They pulled apart the car. After finding nothing they told me they were looking for smuggled RAM chips... I thought about it and figured it out with them... When I got to the Ham Fest BEN HENDRICKS (the soon to be beaten HAM guy) asked me how my trip was? and smirked.... I got even with him in a *DEC* kind of way.... (but that's another message). WARNING THOUGH - SIGNIFICANT DEC HARDWARE WAS DAMAGED *BY* HIM IN THE PROCESS. He *really* should have checked the disk media before inserting.... >>I only ever got lucky once and got a girl I use to go to school with... wish >>I had a Picasso in the car that day :-( > >You can *afford* a Picasso? You must have one hell of a computer collection!!! >;-) Not quite.... but I do have an *okay* group right now, and go through MANY old minis (pre- 1972)... I don't really collect though (I am not a pack rat)... I restore systems for *deep pocket* collectors on the side (beginning to be full time) for $$$$. I only keep a few minis that I enjoy playing with... John http://www.pdp8.com/ (to see the newest acquisitions - last month to present). > >Take care, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. >

24 years, 10 months

OT: patenting an old year/date concept, to make millions

by mbg＠world.std.com

>You might want to check your manuals again, Megan - for the past two >decades that I've been doing RT-11 programming, the month field in the >date word *does* run 1-12, not 0-11. (Actually, 0-11 would make >more sense since you're almost always using it as an index into a >table of month names...) Good catch... After 25 years of RT user/developer/user time, you would think I would get it right all the time... :-) That's why I write the code to do the right thing to begin with.. so I don't have to worry about it later... :-) The bottom line is that since the year can be zero, you use a field of the date word which cannot be zero in a valid date (and if you want to completely validate it, you check to see if each field is in the allowable range). The point being that the fact that 1972 was not allowed by the date command when it truly was a valid RT year is a bug, not the official 'legal' limits to years as Jerome had mentioned. >And, of course, the CSI command lines generally expect RAD50 constants >for months, not numbers, so you can generally type > ... > 004322 instead of APR ... > >Note that octal 004322 = decimal 2258. So some fixes are going >to happen in the future with date parsing if one wants to be sure not >to confuse 'APR' with the year '2258' :-). Yep, I remember noting this when I was working on my copy of RT, but it wasn't a problem within the RT epoch of 1972-2099... so... >There are some other funny things with year parsing in CSI command lines >that have been around since the mid 70's. In particular, most of the >RT-11 utilities used to (that is, prior to 5.7) take as legal years >59 through 63 decimal. Convert these to octal, and you see they >are represented as 73 through 77. This way, if you forgot the decimal >point on a CSI command line in specifying a year in the range 73-77, >the utility "fixed it up" for you with the "do what I mean" operator :-). >It's a cute trick, but it doesn't work from 1980 through 1999 because >8 and 9 aren't legal octal digits... and it wasn't reimplemented for >4 digit years in the range of 2000-2007. It's not a cute trick, it is an *ugly* hack, since it tries to account for someone's bad typing... (personal opinion) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

24 years, 10 months

VAXStation 3100 problems :(

by vaxman＠uswest.net

Hi, I finally dug my VS3100 out and powered it up, and I think I have some bad parts :( On power up it says: KA42 V1.3 F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7_..6_..5...4...3_..2_..1?.. ? E 0040 0000.0005 ? B 0010 0020.0081 ? 4 00D0 0007.0213 ?? 1 00C0 0011.700E >> NOTE: I have the SCSI/ST506 board unplugged, and no mass storage installed (hence the 7_,6_,3_,2_,1? errors) Now, if i remember the VS2000 stuff correctly, ?E says the 8plane graphics is hosed... The visual symptom is the red plane (the whole plane, no text or anything) blinks on and off, and seems to scroll to the upper left. Disconnecting the red input make it go away, but no red then. Removing the 8plane board and connecting the red to the green (w/sync) input works ok. Anyone run into this before? Any suggestions for how to go about fixing it? ?B says the memory board is hosed. There are two memory boards, a DEC 4MB board (it works when plugged in alone), and a DATARAM memory board (the only numbers I see on it are: 40967 Rev F) Their website advertises a lifetime warranty, has anyone exercised it? Can anyone translate the error message into something I can use to debug the board? What do the ?4 and ?1 errors mean? (As if I didn't have enough problems) Is the VS40X (the 8 plane board) the same as the one in the VS2000? Can I plug it in to my VS2000 to test it? Or move the 4 plane from the VS2000 into the 3100? WHere can I get the carriers for disk drives? This box doesn't have any... Finally, does anyone know what the lowest version of Ultrix that will run on this box is? THanks, clint

24 years, 10 months

Just found some PDP-4 paper tape software

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

It's called "Contest - II - 8K" 7/30/63. There are some more PDP-4 tapes I have seen (just digging them out). Anyone have any idea what this is? john

24 years, 10 months

Fireproofing questions

by edick＠idcomm.com

The cabinet you obtained may indeed be fireproof. That means that you can safely store your irreplaceable documents, e.g. your rich uncle's will, your birth certificate, your early computer schematics and service documents, and rely on their remaining intact while the car and remainder of your garage go up in flames. However, I would not recommend it for irreplaceable media which cannot tolerate high temperature. Fireproof generally means that fire on the outside will stay on the outside, while fire on the inside will, likewise, stay on the inside. Clearly there's cause for wanting one or both in many cases. If you want safe, fireproof storage in the sense that your mag media and other thermally sensitive materials will survive, I'd recommend a welded aluminum cabinet which you bury in your back yard with access from the top, perhaps covered by a cinder paving block or even a pallet or two with a utility shed over the top. You could park your lawnmower over it with little ill effect. Even a fire in the gasoline or paint you store there won't damage the contents of the vault. Its contents should remain both cool and dry, and you can have access whenever the situation demands. It might be a good idea to store units of mag media in zip-loc freezer bags with some form of dessicant so as to avoid condensation of water which will lead to mold or mildew. Such an arrangement would be ideal for off-site secure storage of backups. The most convenient such application, using the area under a utility shed, that I've seen was a small chest freezer. So long as the opening is above the worst-case water line, a freezer or old refrigerator might work well. It's just that they tend to rust. It's very dry most of the time here in Colorado. A kitchen appliance might not work so well in Florida or elsewhere where the water table is shallow and the mineral content of the water is high. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Christopher Finney <af-list(a)is1.wfi-inc.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 6:24 PM Subject: Fireproofing questions >Hi all, > >I just scored a 6-foot metal, 2-door cabinet that is marked as fireproof. >I'd like to think it'd be a great place to store classic media, but it's >not entirely heat-proof. To test it, I placed a hot clothes iron on the >outer wall and measured the temperature/rate of climb on the inner wall, >as well as the ambient temperature inside the cabinet. It was enough that, >even with a comparatively small heat source (well, to a garage fire, >anyway), anything within a few inches of the inner wall would have most >definitely been damaged, and possibly items close to the center after a >half-hour of exposure to the heat source. > >My question is this: is there something anyone could recommend that would >make a good lining for the inner walls of the cabinet to insulate it from >heat? Something that doesn't take up too much room (would kind of defeat >the purpose of having a cabinet to store things in) and would protect the >interior contents in case of a small fire. I don't think there's anything >between the inner and outer walls besides air, though I'm not certain. >Perhaps I could squirt some of that expanding foam in there or something? > >Cheers, > >Aaron > >

24 years, 10 months

Effective Speed of 10BaseT

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 15, 0:52, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Basically Samba is Windows networking for non-Windows machines. At work, > it's how the NT boxes access the data which for obvious reasons is kept on > a real OS. Their are versions for most UNIX varients, the Amiga, OpenVMS, > and others. Since it's basically a Windows thing, and I don't have to deal > with it at work, I don't claim to know anything about it. I can do a basic > Samba install and with a lot of cursing get a Win95/98/NT box to connect to > it. > > If you want useful info on it, I'd recommend http://www.samba.org because > I'm sure the info I just gave is both useless and questionable :^) Oh, I think (since I have to look after Samba stuff under similar circumstances) it's quite accurate. You just have to remember that the cursing is, apparently, mandatory. > BTW, I've found the real trick of working with Samba (on the Admin side) is > remembering where the &)# @*^% smb.conf file on a particular machine is! That too :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

24 years, 10 months

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test-drb November 1999