In a message dated 11/17/99 3:46:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
enrico.badella(a)softstar.it writes:
> I have the opportunity to save an IBM 4381 with lots of disks and tapes; it
> is currently running VM ESA 2.1 and also has two 8232 Ethernet units. With
> a friend we would like to acquire it and put it on Internet with free
> accounts
> to requesters.
>
> I don't have any in field experience with IBM mainframe internals and have
> considered this configuration
>
> - CPU one processor
> - 3420 tape
> - 8232 Ethernet controller
> - 3990 control Unit
> - 1 disk string (3 disks or less but need work on the cabinet to
> separate the disk subsystems)
>
> My questions are:
>
> - not planning to use SNA or 3270, at least initially, do we need
> to set up the 3745 FEP?
> - is the above configuration reasonable for a minimum system?
> - tightly packing all the devices to fit in a 15 square meter room
> will cause heating or other problems?
> - how may would be interested in accessing the machine?
> - anybody willing to offer knowledge? IBM was not very helpfully
> to put it kindly.
>
I was a jr operator on a 4381 in 1991. from what your email says, sounds like
you have quite a lot of hardware to move and setup somewhere. a 3990 control
unit makes me think there are 3880 DASD units which will take up lots of
space and power and make lots of noise to boot. the 4381 is about the size of
a closet and almost 7 feet tall. in the shop i worked in, they had two ac
units going and the standard raised floor. you'll definately need cooling of
some sort. you might try IBM again, call their general number, 800.IBM.3333
or 800.IBM.4YOU (i think) and ask for the number of the local 'branch office'
which should get you some info. I'm estimating you will need at least a 20x20
foot room to run this configuration.
DB Young Team OS/2
--> this message printed on recycled disk space
view the computers of yesteryear at
http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm
(now accepting donations!)
>
> So anywho, Qbasic was the MS answer to C-basic which was a semi compiled
> non line number dependent basic. Qbasic is not fully compiled to native
> machine assembly language. I know this as I still maintain a PC app
> written in Qbasic (as recently as last week)! Qbasic also tried to copy
> the Borland "IDE" <Integrated Development Environment> used the Turbo<insert
> language here> they had for z80 and later PCs, in that you could edit, run
> interpretively and then compile the working result.
IMHO, an outstanding piece of software. I still use it when I need a quick and dirty solution.
Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
4" doesn't really make for a "deep" hole. You should be able to do this
with pretty standard drill bits, but cool them and lubricate them. For best
results, use a coarse feed and a relatively slow speed with a very sharp
(best is freshly sharpened for every hole) tool. Drill your holes in a
single stroke, so you won't have to cope with a work-hardened surface. Take
your time.
If you custom machine your heatsink to fit the enclosure it lives in,
fitting it with 1/4" i.d. holes and 1/4" pipe for circulating the liquid
coolant (no FREON or other CFC's...we've got to be ozone-layer-friendly)
you can always put an arbitrarily large exchanger outside in the winter, to
keep the temperature in the circulating fluid somehwere around -100 Celsius.
Remember, what matters is the amount of HEAT you transfer, not the
temperature difference, though the heat flows faster between regions of more
widely differing temperature. You might even find you don't need so large a
delta-T. If you move vast quantities of cold air through a 1 cu. yd.
outdoor heatsink, you could put an array of large peltier coolers there to
heat that heatsink at the expense of the heat carried to it from the
computer in the house. Hopefully you're not trying to be terribly efficient
. . .
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Christopher Finney <af-list(a)is1.wfi-inc.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: E.U.N.U.C.H.
>On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com wrote:
>
>> Anyway, it seems to me that the way to go is:
>>
>> 1. Peltier chip between CPU and heatsink. Heatsink is a large block of
copper.
>>
>> 2. Use a refrigerant cycle similar to a domestic freezer, but connect the
>> refrigerant circuit directly to holes bored in the heatsink block. No
>> intervening water circuit.
>>
>> 3. Of course, keep the refrigerant radiator well away from the system,
and
>> supply it with plenty of fans...
>>
>> 4. Finally, try not to spill refrigerant if it's one of those chlorinated
>> organics that the environmentalists are always going on about. It won't
do any
>> good (although a discussion of whether it does harm is decidedly
off-topic), and
>> will be well-nigh impossible to replace...
>
>
>One issue with copper is the cost. I can buy .5" x 4" aluminum barstock at
>around $2.00 a foot (I'm sure our friends in Europe love these units of
>measurement). It's also relatively easy to bore through with a
>high-quality drill bit if cooled with running water. Also, if I happen to
>screw up and drill through the side I don't cry as much...
>
>For my current peltier-based setup, I have to use a coldplate against the
>cpu itself because I'm using multiple TECs in the design. After getting
>some help with actually arranging the different variables into a useable
>equation, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the temperatures were
>within +/- 3C of my calculations.
>
>One last note about using a water-exchanger in this setup (and then I'll
>shut-up, I promise), is that it's nice not to have to worry about cooling
>the inside of the case too! Also, it doesn't sound like a jet-engine
>starting up...the pump is more like the pleasant gurgle of an aquarium.
>
>So off-topic it hurts,
>
>Aaron
>
Hello all,
I have been watching this list for some time now and have enjoyed the
enthusiasm with which people pursue the preservation of the classic
machines. My personal project has been restoring a SWTPC 6800 to
satisfy my nostalgic needs and I have gotten it up and running solidly.
The next step for me in this quest is to locate a copy of the BASIC
interpreter I used back then - SWTPC's 8k BASIC. I am willing to take
it in any format (i.e. cassette tape, paper listing, disk file, paper
tape, ...). Any help along these lines would be greatly appreciated.
This brings me to a related second question. What is the consensus on
copyright policy for vintage software. I am happy to pay for the
software I acquire, but it's obviously more complicated with software
written 20+ years ago. Any advice on this would be appreciated and I
apologize if this topic has been covered before.
Doug Peckham
dpeckham(a)ucsd.edu
I am just starting to go through the documentation and found some PDP-1
stuff. I have updated my web page to show pictures of some of the PDP-4
paper tapes and list most of the DECUS -8 tapes. I still have a long way to
go as I still have to list all the PDP-1,PDP-4,PDP-5,PDP-8,PDP-9,PDP-15
software,docs and paper tapes I have but have a look.
Some really cool finds so far:
IBM 360 to PDP-9 Interface manual (theory, manual, schematics)
Applications in Physics (PDP-1 and PDP-4)
Atomic Energy Canada - uses for PDP-1
Macro-9 source code
Focal-1968 source code
DECUSCOPES and Decus year end stuff (1965,66,67)
(will have some docs online soon)
http://www.pdp8.com/ (click on the paper tape picture).
PDP-8/s update: The oscilloscope and light pen were installed with success.
Will have pictures online soon showing the 8/s draw pictures/letters on the
scope. I also have a couple of video games I'll take movies of when I get
time.
On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:21:04 -0800 Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes:
>
> Hi,
>
> I saw your message on the Classic Computer List, and am curious
> about the
> Lobo Drives Max 80 computers. I have a couple of Max 80 computers,
> but am
> missing the Lobo HD. What are you asking for that system? Thanks.
>
> Marvin
=====> I'm sorry I have already found homes for my Max80 stuff.
The only think I have left is Univac duel 8" drives and 8"
diskettes with old stuff on them and some blank ones.
Sorry that I didn't have more.
Paul
>
> pmarzolf(a)juno.com wrote:
> >
> > From:
> > Paul V. Marzolf
> > 2761 Morningside Dr.
> > Salt Lake City, Ut. 84124
> > Phone: (801) 277 7556
> > Email: pmarzolf(a)juno.com
> >
> > I don't know what I'm doing here but here it goes.
> >
> > I am looking for new homes for all the old computer stuff I
> > have collected in my 40 years of working in the computer busness.
> > I am a person that don't like to through any think away.
> > I have hardware, books, manuals, magazines, and software.
> > Here is a list of the hardware:
> > ***LIST OF HARDWARE AND DOCUMENTATION***
> >
> > COMPUTERS
> > ---------
> > 2 LOBO'S MAX80 - 5MHz Z-80B PROCESSOR 64k RAM. CP/M INCLUDED
> > ALL DISK INTERFACE BUILT IN. PLUG IN ANY COMBINATION OF
> > 5 1/4" FLOPPIES, 8" FLOPPIES, AND WINCHESTER DISK.
> > CENTRONICS-TYPE PARALLEL PORT. BUILT-IN CLOCK/CALENDAR
> > WITH BATTERY BACKUP, AND BUFFERED I/O EXPANDER PORT.
> >
> > 1 BOX OF DOCUMENTATION
> > DUAL 8" DISK DRIVES (UNIVAC DRIVES)
> > LOBO 5" HARD DISK DRIVE
> > MONITOR
> >
> > ARC X-TURBO
> > FLIP TOP CASE, 640K 8MHZ MOTHER BOARD, CLOCK/CALENDAR, TWO
> > PAR, 2 SER, GAME PORT, 4 DRIVE CONTROLLER (RIBBON CABLES),
> > 135W POWER SUPPLY, COLOR BOARD(RGB), 83 KEY KEYBOARD, TAXAN
> > 415 MONITOR, THE HEART OF THE ARC X-TURBO IS THE INTEL
> > 8088-2 MICRO-PROCESSOR USED IN THE IBM PERSONAL COMPUTER.
> > TWO 5 1/4' FULL SIZE DISK DRIVES.
> > TWO 5 1/4" HALF SIZE HIGH DENSITY EXTERNAL DISK DRIVES
> >
> > COMPAQ SUITE CASE PORTABLE (INTEL 8088)
> > THE KEYBOARD IS THE LID. HAS BUILT IN MONITOR AND 2
> > 5" FLOPPIES. THE SIZE OF THE CARRY AROUND IS 16" X 20"
> > X 9".
> >
> > OTHER COMPUTER HARDWARE
> > -----------------------
> > POWER SUPPLY FOR APPLE IIE
> > MICROSOFT Z80 SOFTCARD - A PERIFHERAL FOR THE APPLE IIE WITH
> > CP/M AND MICROSOFT BASIC ON 5" DISKETTE.
> >
> > EMPTY BOX FOR FULL SIZE 5" DISK DRIVE (FOR TRS-80)
> > DUAL 5" DISK DRIVE UNIT
> > 2 - DUAL 8" DISK DRIVE UNITS (UNIVAC)
> > 2 - 8" DISK DRIVES
> >
> > DIRECT/ACOUSTICALLY COUPLED MODEM LEX-12
> > 2 - UNIVERSAL DATA SYSTEMS 103 LP MODEM (ORIGINATE/ANSWER)
> > DIAL PHONE TO USE WITH ABOVE MODEM
> >
> > PRINTERS
> > UNVAC SERIAL PRINTER
> >
> > DOT MATRIX PRINTERS
> > CITIZEN 2000GX
> > PANASONIC KX-P1080i
> > PANASONIC KX-P2023
> > UNVAC SERIAL PRINTER
> > GORILLA/BANANA
> >
> > POWER SUPPLY HARDWARE. B6
> > ***BOX 9***
> >
> > HARDWARE ACCESSORIES
> > --------------------
> > ELBO ARM FOR COMPUTER. B9
> > HEAVY DUTY THAT CLAMP ONTO A DESK AND
> > HOLDS A MONITOR AND KEYBOARD.
> >
> > TIP TABLE MONTIOR STAND. B9
> >
> > 3 PRINTER STANDS AND PAPER HOLDER. B9
> >
> > 2 5" DISKETTE TEAR HOLDER. B9
> >
> > If interested I can send info about the computer stuff. Just
> > ask????
> >
> > It would be better for me if any response would use my
> > E-mail address to talk to me.
> >
> > Hope someone will be interested.
> > PAUL
> >
> >
> ___________________________________________________________________
> > Get the Internet just the way you want it.
> > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
> > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
If I plug the CPU board of an 11/73 into a backpanel from a MicroVAX-II,
will it work? Someone I know wants to try it. (I.E. they have the uV2 and
want an 11-73 instead.)
-------
There ought to be enough old CRAY hardware out there, from which you can
extract the circuits but not the plumbing and keep your PC and stuff in
liquefied N2. That might help a little, and it will be cleaner, too. In
fact, you ought to get it to run faster than the CRAY. I wonder if the CRAY
will run as many instructions between crashes as the PC . . .
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Christopher Finney <af-list(a)is1.wfi-inc.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: E.U.N.U.C.H.
>Depending on what you jack the bus speed up to, you want to make sure that
>the cache is cooled as well as your video processor. I have a 3dfx board
>that I needed to put an aftermarket fan/heatsink on because it ran so hot.
>
>The nice thing about the high-pressure gas setup I mentioned earlier is
>that you can direct the vented gas on hot spots to help keep them cool...
>
>Aaron
>
>On Wed, 17 Nov 1999, Arfon Gryffydd wrote:
>
>> Besides the CPU, what other chips need to be chilled to over-clock? The
>> Cache?
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Tired of Micro$oft???
>>
>> Move up to a REAL OS...
>> ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ #
>> #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /##
>> ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /###
>> ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |####
>> ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|####
>> # ######
>> ("LINUX" for those of you
>> without fixed-width fonts)
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com
>>
>> Slackware Mailing List:
>> http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html
>>
>
My bet is that this is a clone case with a standard XT motherboard in it. I
don't remember Compaq I portables with an amber monitor.
I have one of these clone cases also. They look a lot like a Compaq.
What does it say on bootup? Pull the covers off and see what motherboard is
in it.
Paxton
--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:
> LOOKING FOR AN RM08 or.....
>
> Would be willing to trade me a transistor peripheral(s)for a major piece of
> equipment like a PDP-8I...
>
> I am looking for any of these transistor peripherals:
I don't have a *one* of those... I do have a couple of DF-32 (w/DS-32) systems
which I want to hang onto long enough to re-check out (now that I know lots
more about them) and at least one PA-60, which is, IIRC, some kind of printer
driver for newspaper-type printers.
Good luck dredging up that antediluvian hardware. You seem to have had quite
a lot of good luck lately.
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
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