test-drb October 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

175 participants
1141 discussions

Noise levels increasing and have become deafening

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> even breaking the lists in two - on and off topic >>> so that ppl with common interests can also talk about other things (like >>> experiences) >>> both lists would die though > I actually had a similar thought and it could work. Is it > possible to create an off-topic mailing list that is not publicly > advertised and cannot be subscribed to unless one were already a > subscriber to the on-topic one? Those that want the on-topic list > could get that, those who want both would get both and no one could > subscribe to only the off-topic one. The unwritten rule is that no new > topic could be spontaneously generated on the off-topic one and the > only new threads allowable would be those banished from the on-topic list. > Of course threads would be allowed to meander and mutate once they were > released to the off-topic list. This is just a thought. It certainly > would allow for these brief hot torrents of opinion on semi off-topic > material to run their course without inconveniencing those who wish to > only see hardcore tech info. The off-topic list would be like a sidebar > only accessible to those who read the on-topic one. Nice talk, but just think how hard it seams to be just to change the Subject line at the right moment AND to get all participants into changing it - not to mention the time delay. This is just an international thing - when I get up and have a first look at it Allison is still sleeping, Uncle Roger (or the other US West Coast guys) are just about to find their sleeping position, while Olminkhof is right about to leave the office - I've seen these things from other lists and news groups. It is just impossible. It is even impossible to live such a policy within a worldwide collaboration tool for a project. Even when corporate and special rules try to enforce it. And Moderation is just the dead of any list (maybe beside a anouncement list for 0190 (1-900) services, where they don't need any spontanous answer. >> This is not IRC, it is a mailing list. There is no need to use the >> silly little abbreviations designed to "speed up" on-line chat and >> the typing of same. Use English or as close an approximation as you >> can. Capital letters help as well as punctuation -- a carriage return Thank you. I hope I'm not hurting your eyes to hard. Fact is that some abbrevation like SCNR or AFAIK/R are thruout usefull, and fixed, so they can be used like IBM or VAX. But, I also dislike this ur2slw4me stuff - I need twice the to read it than regular. > Hey---just kidding around!! There are times this list > seriously lacks any sense of humor. It is ? I found some real good ones in the list :) Gruss H. P.S.: and for NINE mails in one day - I prefer to answer or comment directly, just to keep it small (ok, ok, I know I tend to elaborate whole bibles if I like something) and simple. Writing a mail composing several themes - what should it be named ? - where should it link ? And who will read it ? Just beside from the problem I would have to use additional word processing tools to combine it with the impossibility to keep an overview - I still have to do some regular job in my spare time. P.P.S.: Satisfied ? -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

25 years, 9 months

Classiccmp Friendly Pinout Page Update/Request

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

Ok, I've gotten most of my stash transcribed into text documents on the site. The exception is the bus section, which contains a list of those pinouts that I have but am still working on. Anyway, what this really is is a request to people to dig through their piles of old docs and add some pinouts that aren't there yet. Tony Duell has offered to do PERQ machines, and anyone is welcome to contribute anything that's not there already. I put a file in the "pinouts" directory named "contributors.txt" which contains specific info about who is working on what. Please respond to me privately about this. URL: http://www.prinsol.com/classiccmp/ Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." --> Scott Draves

25 years, 9 months

DOS disks?

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> When I typed "system disk" I meant one >> with an appropriate collection of utilities, which with code bloat >> can be hard to fit on a 720k disk -- since "edit" needs "?basic" etc. Get the GNU DOS port of vi - has the benefit of being a standard, very powerful, reliable and takes up 120KB or so (OK, that's a lot more than ideal for an editor, but at least you don't need all the extra garbage that you have to have with standard MS-DOS 'edit') - of course, if you've never used vi before, you're gonna hate it :) (not wanting to kick off an off-topic thread in light of the current 'problems' on this list, anyone know how to get MS exchange client 4 to do the auto-include of the '>' quote chars above? I'm sick of having to do it by hand! Email privately, please! :) cheers Jules

25 years, 9 months

DOS disks?

by zmerch＠30below.com

At 04:25 PM 10/28/98 -0000, you wrote: >Get the GNU DOS port of vi - has the benefit of being a standard, very >powerful, reliable and takes up 120KB or so (OK, that's a lot more than >ideal for an editor, but at least you don't need all the extra garbage >that you have to have with standard MS-DOS 'edit') - of course, if >you've never used vi before, you're gonna hate it :) [snip] Well, not if you're accustomed to TS-EDIT on the Tandy Color Computers! vi is a superset (I believe -- been a long time since I used TS-EDIT) but the CoCo clone is a fairly complete implementation of it. One thing about vi / TS-EDIT: 'tis a pain in the rear to use, until you get accustomed to the commands. If you do become highly accustomed to editor, you can go *very fast* with it. Boy, I miss those good old days... ;-) "Merch"

25 years, 9 months

8 inch floppies on PC's (was: TRS-80 Model II stuff!)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> For anyone interested (Larry).... I am going home (to Virginia) for >thanksgiving and I will pull out one of my model IIs and get all of the >still useable software and manuals. I will make copies available to >anyone who wants if someone can tell me how to copy the 8" discs to a file >on a PC (either using Linux or Dos). > I can serial port the machines togethet but, I have no idea how to read >off all the sectors of the 8 inches. This is a question that has been dealt with very thoroughly in the past. Sydex (http://www.sydex.com/) has some very excellent software available for dealing with "foreign" floppy formats, and can deal with many (but not all) 8" floppy formats. Instead of going into great detail on how to use these tools, I will instead just refer you to the CP/M FAQ at http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/CPM-faq/faq.html specifically, Q14: "Can I read my 8" disks with my PC?" I hope nobody takes this reply as a brush-off as a result of a good fraction of my business coming from reading old media, including (but by no means limited to) 8" floppy disks. Even though references to non-mailing-list resources seem to very sparse on the CLASSICCMP mailing list, I just want folks to know that there *are* very useful FAQ's out there that deal with the issue thoroughly already. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

25 years, 9 months

Road trip/vintage sources

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Tim said: >One decent source in the area is the Terrapin Trader, the University >of Maryland's surplus outlet in College Park. For more info, see > > http://www.inform.umd.edu/PURCHASE/terptrad/ > Thanks Tim. Speaking of road trips: Next month I going to take my two weeks vacation to retrieve our belongings from storage in Manassas Virginia, where we left them 11 years ago. I'm excited to be finally getting my two analog computers out here to California. Anyway, we will be driving back to California from Nov 14-22. I'm hoping to stop at a few places on the way back, looking for (real old) computer stuff. We already plan to stop in Pennslyvania,Ohio - Lima and Aurora, Michigan - Benton Harbor and Ann Arbor,Chicago,St. Louis,and New Mexico - Albuquerque. If anyone knows of good places to look, and want to share the secret, let me know. What kind of places? Places that dark and dirty. Places with junk arranged in piles. Places with vacuum tube equipment. (I would love to find an example of a vacuum tube analog computer) Places you won't want your kids to play in. On another note: Does anyone in Florida have more information about the plans to tear down the original control room at the Kennedy Space Center? (It was on the news) ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

25 years, 9 months

Noise levels have become deaf

by danjo＠xnet.com

What - you got one too???? Now I can not swear it is Samnie's handiwork but after get a copy of the Unsubscribe message from the listproc admin I am pretty sure I will be able to hunt down the source. It's more of a nuisance attack anyway... Tho I think DOS is more like it.... > From listproc(a)u.washington.edu Wed Oct 28 11:45:06 1998 > Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:22:33 PST > From: University of Washington ListProcessor <listproc(a)u.washington.edu> > To: danjo(a)xnet.com > Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP > > Dear user, > > your request > > UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP > > has been successfully processed. > > You have been removed from list CLASSICCMP(classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu). > Thank you for being with us. BC

25 years, 9 months

Ohio Scientific C3 OEM available

by bill＠chipware.com

I have exchanged email with this guy already, seems like a nice guy. The machine is in Chicago. Correspond directly with him if interested. AZOTIC <azotic(a)aol.com> wrote: >Any one have an idea what a old >OHIO SCIENTIFIC OEM C-3 >is worth. 8" floppy drives. rs232 >terminal, tripple proccessors >even got the repair manuals. I >plugged it in, and it still works. >any collectors ? I need some new >toys.

25 years, 9 months

Doug and the Zuses (was:Re: KEITH, WE HARDLY KNEW YOU was: Noise

by franke＠sbs.de

> I saw a Zuse 23 last week at the Deutsches Museum in Bonn. Pretty > cool (the first transitorized Zuse), but that was just about the only > classic computer they had on display. Oh, did they pull of the DDR 1 Meg chip from display ? I belive this is the most funny Display _and_ a thing to think about with its implications. Gruss Hans Disclaimer: And of coure, I told him to come to Munich and see the real stuff like a Z3 or 2002 (No, not the 70s BMW, but the first (or maybe second, if the Mailuefterl group is right) running fuly transistorised machine) but no, he just had the less interesting part ... :) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

25 years, 9 months

MS_DOS 2.11 (Was: DOS disks?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Very interesting! I learn something new every day! But, was the source available to the public? If not, it's not much different from NT now, which makes source available under an NDA. >MS-DOS 2.11 was a very special version. It was the one where Microsoft >explicitly supported OEM modifications. Even the source code to IO.SYS >was obtainable! Each manufacturer that had something weird could make >their mods to it. For example: PC-DOS 3.20 was the first one to support >720K floppies. But LOTS of MS-DOS 2.11 variants support 720Ks. (NOT ALL >WITH THE SAME DISK FORMAT!!) Or the manufacturer could modify IO.SYS so >that pressing Ctrl+Alt+Meta+CokeBottle switches to power-saving "suspend >mode", etc. > >Accordingly, 2.11 was usually tied to a given manufacturer. DG 2.11 was >not quite the same as Gavilan 2.11, etc. Typically, MODE.COM would be >heavily customized, and frequently IO.SYS would have a few differences. >For example, Gavilan 2.00, 2.10 or 2.11 all supported 3.5" disks, but >only 2.11 worked right. And 2.11K, 2.11L, etc. also supported double >sided disks. > >If you CAN, try to find a copy of that 2.11 for your machine; the one >modified by the hardware manufacturer to work with the weirdities of your >hardware. If you choose to use one of the newer versions of DOS (6.2x is >the most reliable for a couple of reasons), at least keep a copy available >of the MODE.COM that was customized for your machine. You might need to >use SETVER, or disassemble and look for the code that goes: >MOV AH, 30h >INT 21h >CMP AX, > >Using the newer version of DOS MIGHT cut you off from some of the >customizations, but hopefully MODE.COM may have most of the ones that you >need, such as MODE LCD , etc. > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 > > >On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > >> Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> > >> > Weeeeeeeell, I landed a Data General One laptop. Normally I eschew MS-DOS >> > based machines, simply because I'm a racist pig etc., but this one has an >> > interesting notebook mode and a built-in terminal program at 1200bps. Except >> > that the screen is harder to read than James Joyce, it seems like a winner >> > and it works great. >> > >> > Question. Anyone know what version of DOS this uses? Does someone have any >> > boot disks out there, or at least have the system files available for >> > download? The drives are 3.5" DD, right? >> >> Came as I recall with MS-DOS 2.11, should use anything up to 6.22, >> though of course it's tricky building a 720k 6.22.system disk. 3.3 >> is probably your best bet, although I think there were some hardware >> specific utilities on the original material that might come in rather >> handy. Nice machine -- the only DOS laptop to tempt me prior to the >> Zenith SuperSports. >> -- >> Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/> >> >> WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, >> and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

25 years, 9 months

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test-drb October 1998