29 Jun
2015
29 Jun
'15
1:22 a.m.
I have had an interest in the DEC VAX line of computers for some time now
and am trying to find a good place to get a system to start out with. The
main pourpose being to have a machine to use VMS on. I have been running
VMS on emulated hardware via SIMH, however i would like to move to running
on real hardware. What would be the best machine for a beginner to VAX
Hardware to start out with?
My main place for looking for hardware has been ebay, although most of what
im seeing is untested and expensive. Is there a better place to find older
machines like this?
29 Jun
29 Jun
5:48 a.m.
where are you located?
On Jun 29, 2015 6:06 AM, "devin davison" <lyokoboy0 at gmail.com> wrote:
I have had an interest in the DEC VAX line of
computers for some time now
and am trying to find a good place to get a system to start out with. The
main pourpose being to have a machine to use VMS on. I have been running
VMS on emulated hardware via SIMH, however i would like to move to running
on real hardware. What would be the best machine for a beginner to VAX
Hardware to start out with?
My main place for looking for hardware has been ebay, although most of what
im seeing is untested and expensive. Is there a better place to find older
machines like this?
7:42 a.m.
Hi Devin,
Assuming you are in CONUS, checking eBay and hanging out on this list is
probably the best places to check ... I would suggest for you a VAXstation
3100 series ... especially if you can find a 3100/76 for not too much
money, it makes a pretty good machine... I paid maybe $130 for mine,
"loaded" ... You can find a plain old 3100/30 for $100 all day.
The VAXstation 4000/VLC is also a nice first choice but prices on those
have gone up quite a bit since I got mine ... Look to spend maybe $200-250,
it seems ... You can also keep an eye out for a microVAX II/III type
machine in a BA23 cabinet which are also not completely uncommon ... or a
microVAX 3x00 machine in either a desktop or deskside enclosure. These are
great machines if you can pick them up locally or find someone to arrange
to ship them for you.
Best,
Sean
On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 8:48 AM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
where are you located?
On Jun 29, 2015 6:06 AM, "devin davison" <lyokoboy0 at gmail.com> wrote:
I have had an interest in the DEC VAX line of
computers for some time now
and am trying to find a good place to get a system to start out with. The
main pourpose being to have a machine to use VMS on. I have been running
VMS on emulated hardware via SIMH, however i would like to move to
running
on real hardware. What would be the best machine
for a beginner to VAX
Hardware to start out with?
My main place for looking for hardware has been ebay, although most of
what
im seeing is untested and expensive. Is there a
better place to find
older
machines like this?
9:08 a.m.
on real hardware. What would be the best machine for a
beginner to VAX
Hardware to start out with?
I think you need to think very carefully about what you want this machine to do.
The ideal VAX for me is not going to necessarily be the ideal VAX for you.
In general there are 3 classes of VAX that people run at home. There are many
other families, but in general they are much rarer, and probably much harder to
maintain.
The first series are the VAXstations, probably a 3100 of some kind. These are
desktop boxes, they are workstations (so you can drive a CRT monitor from them,
although they have serial ports too, and AFAIK can use a serial console). They
generally have SCSI and ethernet interfaces built in. The downside is that they
are somewhat closed machines. You have connectors for a memory board in
most of them. You have the SCSI bus for disks. But you don't really have access to
the CPU bus to add anything out of the ordinary. This may well not matter to you.
The second series are the MicroVAX II/III machines. Normally in a deskside-size
cabinet. Normally use a serial terminal, but there are exceptions. Here the CPU is
one board, memory is one or 2 more, then separate boards plugging into something
called Qbus for everything else. The advantage, of course, is that Qbus is the processor
bus so if you need a strange interface you can probably add it. The disadvantage is that
finding some of the boards you may want is a pain (Qbus SCSI is often hard to get)
The third series I hesitate to mention, as I don't think they're what you are
looking for. That's
the first ever VAX series, the 11/7xx machines. There are 3 sub-families. The 11/780 was
the first
It's massive (think large wardrobe just for the CPU) and needs 3 phase mains
officially. The
upside for a hardware person is that said CPU is massive because it's built from lots
of simple,
standard, ICs. It's repairable. Very. The 11/750 came next, a bit smaller, but now the
CPU is
a lot of custom gate array chips. One that I would avoid (yes, I know I'll get flamed
for that from
all the happy owners). To me the 11/750 is large and doesn't give you anything over a
microVAX
The third subseries is the 11/730. It's slow. It's very slow. I am told that using
the DEC supplied
microcode tape it can take 25 minutes to get a boot prompt (!). But it's small, the
CPU is one
10.5" high, 19" wide rack mount box. A useable machine fits in a half-height
rack. And amazingly
this small VAX was built from standard ICs (admittedly a lot of PALs), mostlly. These
machines use
an expansion bus called Unibus (the 11/780 and 11/750 also have MassBus for disks). Unibus
is
similar in concept to Qbus, so again you would have a board for ethernet, one for serial
terminals,
etc.
For me, a hardware hacker with too many machines as it is, the 11/730 fits the bill. I can
accomodate
it (I doubt I could fit an 11/780 in anywhere) and I can hang a logic analyser off it if I
want to. For you,
I think you should probably look towards a VAXstation to start with. But I might be very
wrong...
-tony
10:23 a.m.
On Jun 29, 2015, at 9:08 AM, tony duell <ard at
p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
on real hardware. What would be the best machine
for a beginner to VAX
Hardware to start out with?
I think you need to think very carefully about what you want this machine to do.
The ideal VAX for me is not going to necessarily be the ideal VAX for you.
In general there are 3 classes of VAX that people run at home. There are many
other families, but in general they are much rarer, and probably much harder to
maintain.
The first series are the VAXstations, probably a 3100 of some kind.
The second series are the MicroVAX II/III machines.
[snip]
The third series I hesitate to mention, as I don't think they're what you are
looking for. That's
the first ever VAX series, the 11/7xx machines. There are 3 sub-families.
[snip]
I think Tony has the list just about right for someone wanting to get into VAX hardware.
If you'd
raised this about 18 months ago, you could've picked from any in the above list (yes,
including
11/780's) when I moved.
To give folks an idea of how much stuff I had jammed into my (many) storage units, as I
was
going through them trying to figure out what I'd keep and what I would
"dispose" of, I found a
VAX 11/780 that I didn't know that I had. I knew that I had one in storage as I was
digging/sorting
I "discovered" a second 11/780 that I had forgotten was in there.
You *know* you have too much stuff and it's packed too tightly when you can
"lose" a VAX 11/780!
TTFN - Guy
10:28 a.m.
To give folks an idea of how much stuff I had jammed into my (many) storage units, as I
was
going through them trying to figure out what I'd keep and what I would
"dispose" of, I found a
VAX 11/780 that I didn't know that I had. I knew that I had one in storage as I was
digging/sorting
I "discovered" a second 11/780 that I had forgotten was in there.
You *know* you have too much stuff and it's packed too tightly when you can
"lose" a VAX 11/780!
Kersqueeble!
When I moved last year I found an RK05 (drive) that I had forgotten about, but that was
about it. No really
large machines came out of the woodwork.
A tip for anyone moving in the UK. Do as much as you can yourself. I had the misfortune to
use a removal
company who assured me they could move the stuff and would handle it properly. Result : a
heck of a lot
of damage that will take years to put right, parts will have to be made from scratch, etc.
And absolutely no
way to get a penny out of them
-tony
10:48 a.m.
On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:28 AM, tony duell <ard at
p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I think that's universal regardless of where you are located. If it's
"unusual" stuff, then move it yourself (if
you're able to).
Fortunately had some fore thought prior to my move. So I spent a lot of time sorting and
palletizing the
smaller stuff (ie anything that wasn't already on casters). I would not have been
able to load the truck,
drive almost 200 miles, unload and drive back all in the same day if I hadn't already
had stuff "pre-packaged".
TTFN - Guy
To give folks an idea of how much stuff I had jammed into my (many) storage units, as I
was
going through them trying to figure out what I'd keep and what I would
"dispose" of, I found a
VAX 11/780 that I didn't know that I had. I knew that I had one in storage as I was
digging/sorting
I "discovered" a second 11/780 that I had forgotten was in there.
You *know* you have too much stuff and it's packed too tightly when you can
"lose" a VAX 11/780!
Kersqueeble!
When I moved last year I found an RK05 (drive) that I had forgotten about, but that was
about it. No really
large machines came out of the woodwork.
A tip for anyone moving in the UK. Do as much as you can yourself. I had the misfortune
to use a removal
company who assured me they could move the stuff and would handle it properly. Result : a
heck of a lot
of damage that will take years to put right, parts will have to be made from scratch,
etc. And absolutely no
way to get a penny out of them 
10:33 a.m.
To give folks an idea of how much stuff I had jammed
into my (many) storage units, as I was
going through them trying to figure out what I'd keep and what I would
"dispose" of, I found a
VAX 11/780 that I didn't know that I had. I knew that I had one in storage as I was
digging/sorting
I "discovered" a second 11/780 that I had forgotten was in there.
You *know* you have too much stuff and it's packed too tightly when you can
"lose" a VAX 11/780!
Ha!
Bud sadly, I can relate. I am moving as well, and I am coming across
tons (VERY literally) of racks of military radar and radio equipment I
forgot I had. The good news is that as I am breaking up my radar and
radio collections, I do not have to think too hard about where the
stuff is going. It ain't stayin' here!
--
Will
30 Jun
30 Jun
11:09 a.m.
On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:23 , Guy Sotomayor <ggs at
shiresoft.com> wrote:
You *know* you have too much stuff and it's packed too tightly when you can
"lose" a VAX 11/780!
This reminds me of when I was exploring a surplus yard, and found a *fire truck* buried in
a pile. Walked right by it a few times before I noticed it.
I also lusted after an 11/780 as my first VAX, but compromised on a much smaller and
slower, but much more practical 11/730 system when one happened to turn up.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
4:08 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mark J.
Blair
Sent: 30 June 2015 19:10
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Where to get a Vax or microvax
> On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:23 , Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote:
> You *know* you have too much stuff and it's packed too tightly when you
can
"lose" a VAX 11/780!
This reminds me of when I was exploring a surplus yard, and found a *fire
truck* buried in a pile. Walked right by it a few times before I noticed
it.
I also lusted after an 11/780 as my first VAX, but compromised on a much
smaller and slower, but much more practical 11/730 system when one
happened to turn up.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
I think if I had the opportunity to own a 780 I would do my best to *make*
space for it, although I fear it would mean having to rent storage space.
I'd love a 730 too.
I am still incredulous that someone could "lose" or not realise they had a
second 780! :-)
Regards
Rob
4:14 p.m.
On 6/30/15 4:08 PM, Robert Jarratt wrote:
I think if I had the opportunity to own a 780 I would
do my best to
*make* space for it, although I fear it would mean having to rent
storage space. I'd love a 730 too. I am still incredulous that someone
could "lose" or not realise they had a second 780! :-) Regards Rob
Actually at one point I had 4 (or was it 5?) 11/78x machines. Some were
11/780s, one was an 11/780-5 and one was an 11/785.
When I moved out of my shop, I put everything into storage. To keep the
number of storage spaces at a minimum, I had to pack everything
*tight*. Over the years, I sold some of them off and lost track of how
many remained in storage. I knew that there was one in storage but as I
was unpacking for the most recent move, I found that there were actually 2.
TTFN - Guy
4:17 p.m.
they are known to multiply on their own...
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 7:14 PM, Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote:
On 6/30/15 4:08 PM, Robert Jarratt wrote:
I think if I had the opportunity to own a 780 I
would do my best to
*make* space for it, although I fear it would mean having to rent storage
space. I'd love a 730 too. I am still incredulous that someone could
"lose"
or not realise they had a second 780! :-) Regards Rob
Actually at one point I had 4 (or was it 5?) 11/78x machines. Some were
11/780s, one was an 11/780-5 and one was an 11/785.
When I moved out of my shop, I put everything into storage. To keep the
number of storage spaces at a minimum, I had to pack everything *tight*.
Over the years, I sold some of them off and lost track of how many remained
in storage. I knew that there was one in storage but as I was unpacking
for the most recent move, I found that there were actually 2.
TTFN - Guy
4:27 p.m.
I still think I would enjoy acquiring an 11/780 series machine someday, when my wallet
recharges and I've had time to excavate enough room out in my barn. But for now,
I'm pretty stoked just to have my little 11/730.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
5:49 p.m.
they are known to multiply on their own...
Clearly someone who has one (or better more) 780s (or 730s)
needs to start breeding them for the rest of us.
I guess to be fair I should offer that if anyone wants a 3600 and
they can reproduce asexually, I'll see if I can breed the one I just
got. :)
BLS
6:33 p.m.
If you have some storage, then you can lose a microcomputer.
If you lose a minicomputer, then you have a lot of storage.
If you lose a mainframe, then you have ENOUGH storage.
6:57 p.m.
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
If you have some storage, then you can lose a
microcomputer.
Oh, yeah.
If you lose a minicomputer, then you have a lot of
storage.
I recently found an 11/730 I thought I had to get rid of in 1994...
(turns out I got rid of a spare we bought to harvest parts from. I
kept the working one. Now to refurb the TU58)
If you lose a mainframe, then you have ENOUGH storage.
Hasn't happened yet.
-ethan
8:11 p.m.
I've been saying for some time that I think VAXen breed in the corners - I
don't quite know where all of these VAXstations came from. (I still want a
VLC, though - just saying.) -- Ian
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 6:57 PM, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Fred Cisin <cisin
at xenosoft.com> wrote:
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
If you have some storage, then you can lose a
microcomputer.
Oh, yeah.
If you lose a minicomputer, then you have a lot
of storage.
I recently found an 11/730 I thought I had to get rid of in 1994...
(turns out I got rid of a spare we bought to harvest parts from. I
kept the working one. Now to refurb the TU58)
If you lose a mainframe, then you have ENOUGH
storage.
Hasn't happened yet.
-ethan
6:40 p.m.
On Tue, 6/30/15, Vincent Slyngstad <v.slyngstad at frontier.com> wrote:
Don't worry. I don't have any plans to cross breed it with
myself. Besides I doubt VMS would run very well on a
machine that shared any of my absent minded tendencies.
BLS
I'll see if I can breed the one I just got.?
:)
Do *not* post pictures.? I'm still trying to forget seeing
the ones from that other guy. 
29 Jun
29 Jun
11:52 a.m.
On 2015-06-29 18:08, tony duell wrote:
So, where would you place a VAX8650 in there? Or the 6000- or
7000-series? :-D
(Or, drool, a 9000?)
Johnny
on real
hardware. What would be the best machine for a beginner to VAX
Hardware to start out with?
I think you need to think very carefully about what you want this machine to do.
The ideal VAX for me is not going to necessarily be the ideal VAX for you.
In general there are 3 classes of VAX that people run at home. There are many
other families, but in general they are much rarer, and probably much harder to
maintain.
The first series are the VAXstations, probably a 3100 of some kind. These are
desktop boxes, they are workstations (so you can drive a CRT monitor from them,
although they have serial ports too, and AFAIK can use a serial console). They
generally have SCSI and ethernet interfaces built in. The downside is that they
are somewhat closed machines. You have connectors for a memory board in
most of them. You have the SCSI bus for disks. But you don't really have access to
the CPU bus to add anything out of the ordinary. This may well not matter to you.
The second series are the MicroVAX II/III machines. Normally in a deskside-size
cabinet. Normally use a serial terminal, but there are exceptions. Here the CPU is
one board, memory is one or 2 more, then separate boards plugging into something
called Qbus for everything else. The advantage, of course, is that Qbus is the processor
bus so if you need a strange interface you can probably add it. The disadvantage is that
finding some of the boards you may want is a pain (Qbus SCSI is often hard to get)
The third series I hesitate to mention, as I don't think they're what you are
looking for. That's
the first ever VAX series, the 11/7xx machines. There are 3 sub-families. The 11/780 was
the first
It's massive (think large wardrobe just for the CPU) and needs 3 phase mains
officially. The
upside for a hardware person is that said CPU is massive because it's built from lots
of simple,
standard, ICs. It's repairable. Very. The 11/750 came next, a bit smaller, but now
the CPU is
a lot of custom gate array chips. One that I would avoid (yes, I know I'll get flamed
for that from
all the happy owners). To me the 11/750 is large and doesn't give you anything over a
microVAX
The third subseries is the 11/730. It's slow. It's very slow. I am told that
using the DEC supplied
microcode tape it can take 25 minutes to get a boot prompt (!). But it's small, the
CPU is one
10.5" high, 19" wide rack mount box. A useable machine fits in a half-height
rack. And amazingly
this small VAX was built from standard ICs (admittedly a lot of PALs), mostlly. These
machines use
an expansion bus called Unibus (the 11/780 and 11/750 also have MassBus for disks).
Unibus is
similar in concept to Qbus, so again you would have a board for ethernet, one for serial
terminals,
etc.
For me, a hardware hacker with too many machines as it is, the 11/730 fits the bill. I
can accomodate
it (I doubt I could fit an 11/780 in anywhere) and I can hang a logic analyser off it if
I want to. For you,
I think you should probably look towards a VAXstation to start with. But I might be very
wrong...
12:21 p.m.
So, where would you place a VAX8650 in there? Or the 6000- or
7000-series? :-D
(Or, drool, a 9000?)
Those come under the 'many other families' I would argue that those machines
are much rarer and much harder to maintain than the 3 families I suggested for
a _first_ VAX. In fact having seen inside a 6210 cabinet there is no way I would
want to maintain one. Not sure about the 8650, though...
If you want to run those at home, fine... If you are offered one, make sure you
know what you are taking on.
FWIW, I wouldn't recomend a PDP11/45 with only the printset for documentation as a
first PDP11 either. But it's what I started with.
-tony
12:29 p.m.
On 2015-06-29 21:21, tony duell wrote:
Well, ok, if your list was intended as a "first VAX" only list, then
fair enough. I would not consider most of those machines as good first
VAXen either. Although, the 6000 is actually not that hard, nor some of
the small 8000-machines, such as the 8200.
The problem with lots of the more modern machines though, are that they
essentially are fine if they work, but if they break, you'll have a hard
time to fix them. That goes both for the 6000 series as well as all the
pizza boxes.
Johnny
So, where would you place a VAX8650 in there? Or the 6000- or
7000-series? :-D
(Or, drool, a 9000?)
Those come under the 'many other families' I would argue that those machines
are much rarer and much harder to maintain than the 3 families I suggested for
a _first_ VAX. In fact having seen inside a 6210 cabinet there is no way I would
want to maintain one. Not sure about the 8650, though...
If you want to run those at home, fine... If you are offered one, make sure you
know what you are taking on.
FWIW, I wouldn't recomend a PDP11/45 with only the printset for documentation as a
first PDP11 either. But it's what I started with.
12:35 p.m.
Well, ok, if your list was intended as a "first VAX" only list, then
That is what I believe the OP was asking for,
fair enough. I would not consider most of those
machines as good first
VAXen either. Although, the 6000 is actually not that hard, nor some of
the small 8000-machines, such as the 8200.
The 6000 series are quite big cabinets and as a first VAX it's hard for me to
see the great advantage over a microVAX or a VAXstation.
The problem with lots of the more modern machines
though, are that they
essentially are fine if they work, but if they break, you'll have a hard
time to fix them. That goes both for the 6000 series as well as all the
pizza boxes.
My view is that there are only 2 VAXen series that I would want to run at home. For me.
That is machines where component-level investigation and repair are very possible, Those
series are the 11/780 (including the 11/782 and 11/785, of course) and the 11/730
(including
11/725). As I don't have space for the former, I intend to run the latter. But my
requirements and
interests are likely to be very different from other people's hence my initial
comments.
Thing about the VAXstations is that there are quite a few about that can be raided for
spares. There
is a printset for at least one of them on bitsavers, so I would guess finding a faulty IC
is not going to
be impossible. I refuse to actually suggst b***d-sw*pp**g but you know what I mean....
I have never seen a printset for a 6000, 7000, 8650, etc machine. Do they exist? I doubt
it for the
6000 series.
-tony
2:08 p.m.
I've been looking for a printset for the VAX 6000-600 for a long time.
I've never found one. <sigh> -- Ian
On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 12:35 PM, tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
Well, ok, if your list was intended as a "first VAX" only list, then
That is what I believe the OP was asking for,
fair enough. I would not consider most of those
machines as good first
VAXen either. Although, the 6000 is actually not that hard, nor some of
the small 8000-machines, such as the 8200.
The 6000 series are quite big cabinets and as a first VAX it's hard for me
to
see the great advantage over a microVAX or a VAXstation.
The problem with lots of the more modern machines
though, are that they
essentially are fine if they work, but if they break, you'll have a hard
time to fix them. That goes both for the 6000 series as well as all the
pizza boxes.
My view is that there are only 2 VAXen series that I would want to run at
home. For me.
That is machines where component-level investigation and repair are very
possible, Those
series are the 11/780 (including the 11/782 and 11/785, of course) and the
11/730 (including
11/725). As I don't have space for the former, I intend to run the latter.
But my requirements and
interests are likely to be very different from other people's hence my
initial comments.
Thing about the VAXstations is that there are quite a few about that can
be raided for spares. There
is a printset for at least one of them on bitsavers, so I would guess
finding a faulty IC is not going to
be impossible. I refuse to actually suggst b***d-sw*pp**g but you know
what I mean....
I have never seen a printset for a 6000, 7000, 8650, etc machine. Do they
exist? I doubt it for the
6000 series.
-tony
3:04 p.m.
On 2015-06-29 21:35, tony duell wrote:
Yes. But I would never dream of suggesting a VAX-11/780 as a "first VAX"
either... I think most people would not even know what to do if
presented with 500 Kg of computer... Not to mention all the subsystems
you need to figure out, learn, connect and get running...
It's not exactly like a workstation or a PC.
They are small compared to a VAX-11/780.
The 11/782 would become very big, and use even more power. Not that an
11/780 are small to start with, but we're talking about roughly doubling
the size and power consumption here... Not to mention being a very odd
machine from a multiprocessor point of view as well. Not something I
would recommend unless you are seriously interested in that specific
machine.
The 11/730 and 11/725 are probably among the last machines I would ever
want to have. We all have different dreams... The 8650 is sweet. I could
possibly like a 9000 even more...
Well, ok, if your list was intended as a "first VAX" only list, then
That is what I believe the OP was asking for, fair enough. I
would not consider most of those machines as good first
VAXen either. Although, the 6000 is actually not that hard, nor some of
the small 8000-machines, such as the 8200.
The 6000 series are quite big cabinets and as a first VAX it's hard for me to
see the great advantage over a microVAX or a VAXstation. The problem
with lots of the more modern machines though, are that they
essentially are fine if they work, but if they break, you'll have a hard
time to fix them. That goes both for the 6000 series as well as all the
pizza boxes.
My view is that there are only 2 VAXen series that I would want to run at home. For me.
That is machines where component-level investigation and repair are very possible, Those
series are the 11/780 (including the 11/782 and 11/785, of course) and the 11/730
(including
11/725). As I don't have space for the former, I intend to run the latter. But my
requirements and
interests are likely to be very different from other people's hence my initial
comments. Thing about the VAXstations is that there are quite a
few about that can be raided for spares. There
is a printset for at least one of them on bitsavers, so I would guess finding a faulty IC
is not going to
be impossible. I refuse to actually suggst b***d-sw*pp**g but you know what I mean....
Yeah. VAXstations makes a lot of sense for someone who just wants to run
a VAX and play around. The fact that you can get spares pretty easy most
of the time has its points.
If you like playing around with the hardware as well as the software,
then maybe there are more interesting machines around than the pizzabox
ones.
I have never seen a printset for a 6000, 7000, 8650,
etc machine. Do they exist? I doubt it for the
6000 series.
I don't remember if I have the printsets for the 8650, but we (Update)
sure have quite a lot of documentation for it.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
6:04 p.m.
Re: 11/780 as first VAX: no. That's just silly. I restored a pair of
11/785s (one a field-updated /780) for LCM. They're a wonderful machine,
and I really really want one - after I win the lottery and can afford the
power and space for it and can take the time to get and keep it running.
Get a VAXstation of some sort or another. Even if you have a low end
one-lunged 3100, or even a 2000, you can run VMS on real VAX hardware and
have fun. I would actually suggest a 3100 over just about anything else
because you can find expansion cases for it (typically containing SCSI
drives, CDROM drives and even cartridge tape drives) pretty easily and
cheaply, and everything just plugs in. If you want one of the 'good' ones,
you'll fight tooth and nail on ePay, but if your goal is to enjoy running
VMS on real hardware, you can buy one of the 'OK' ones for a lot less.
Then, if the bug bites you and you really want something bigger, I'd look
for one of the pedestal machines - I really love my 4000/300 and, although
you'll pay through the nose to ship it, it's a serious VAX that can Do
Stuff.
Then, if you discover you're totally insane, you can look about for Big
VAXen and subsidize your local power company. -- Ian
On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
On 2015-06-29 21:35, tony duell wrote:
Yes. But I would never dream of suggesting a VAX-11/780 as a "first VAX"
either... I think most people would not even know what to do if presented
with 500 Kg of computer... Not to mention all the subsystems you need to
figure out, learn, connect and get running...
It's not exactly like a workstation or a PC.
fair enough. I would not consider most of those machines as good first
They are small compared to a VAX-11/780.
The problem with lots of the more modern machines though, are that they
The 11/782 would become very big, and use even more power. Not that an
11/780 are small to start with, but we're talking about roughly doubling
the size and power consumption here... Not to mention being a very odd
machine from a multiprocessor point of view as well. Not something I would
recommend unless you are seriously interested in that specific machine.
The 11/730 and 11/725 are probably among the last machines I would ever
want to have. We all have different dreams... The 8650 is sweet. I could
possibly like a 9000 even more...
Thing about the VAXstations is that there are quite a few about that can
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
Well, ok, if your list was intended as a
"first VAX" only list, then
That is what I believe the OP was asking for,
VAXen
either. Although, the 6000 is actually not that hard, nor some of
the small 8000-machines, such as the 8200.
The 6000 series are quite big cabinets and as a first VAX it's hard for
me to
see the great advantage over a microVAX or a VAXstation.
essentially are fine if they work, but if they break, you'll have a hard
time to fix them. That goes both for the 6000 series as well as all the
pizza boxes.
My view is that there are only 2 VAXen series that I would want to run at
home. For me.
That is machines where component-level investigation and repair are very
possible, Those
series are the 11/780 (including the 11/782 and 11/785, of course) and
the 11/730 (including
11/725). As I don't have space for the former, I intend to run the
latter. But my requirements and
interests are likely to be very different from other people's hence my
initial comments.
be raided for spares. There
is a printset for at least one of them on bitsavers, so I would guess
finding a faulty IC is not going to
be impossible. I refuse to actually suggst b***d-sw*pp**g but you know
what I mean....
Yeah. VAXstations makes a lot of sense for someone who just wants to run a
VAX and play around. The fact that you can get spares pretty easy most of
the time has its points.
If you like playing around with the hardware as well as the software, then
maybe there are more interesting machines around than the pizzabox ones.
I have never seen a printset for a 6000, 7000, 8650, etc machine. Do they
exist? I doubt it for the
6000 series.
I don't remember if I have the printsets for the 8650, but we (Update)
sure have quite a lot of documentation for it.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
7:21 p.m.
I recently got a Microvax 3100 and a VAX 4000-200, very pleased with how
easy they are to work with. I have had a lot more issues with
Alpahservers. VAX/Aphas running one flavor or another of openVMS.
I agree with Ian, think the 3100's are a good starter VAX. My 3100 system
has two SCSI external drives to beef it up. You get what you pay for, try
to find something in nice shape that works and pay a little extra. My
opinion.
Bill
On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Ian S. King <isking at uw.edu> wrote:
Re: 11/780 as first VAX: no. That's just silly.
I restored a pair of
11/785s (one a field-updated /780) for LCM. They're a wonderful machine,
and I really really want one - after I win the lottery and can afford the
power and space for it and can take the time to get and keep it running.
Get a VAXstation of some sort or another. Even if you have a low end
one-lunged 3100, or even a 2000, you can run VMS on real VAX hardware and
have fun. I would actually suggest a 3100 over just about anything else
because you can find expansion cases for it (typically containing SCSI
drives, CDROM drives and even cartridge tape drives) pretty easily and
cheaply, and everything just plugs in. If you want one of the 'good' ones,
you'll fight tooth and nail on ePay, but if your goal is to enjoy running
VMS on real hardware, you can buy one of the 'OK' ones for a lot less.
Then, if the bug bites you and you really want something bigger, I'd look
for one of the pedestal machines - I really love my 4000/300 and, although
you'll pay through the nose to ship it, it's a serious VAX that can Do
Stuff.
Then, if you discover you're totally insane, you can look about for Big
VAXen and subsidize your local power company. -- Ian
On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se>
wrote:
would
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
On 2015-06-29 21:35, tony duell wrote:
Yes. But I would never dream of suggesting a VAX-11/780 as a "first VAX"
either... I think most people would not even know what to do if presented
with 500 Kg of computer... Not to mention all the subsystems you need to
figure out, learn, connect and get running...
It's not exactly like a workstation or a PC.
fair enough. I would not consider most of those machines as good first
They are small compared to a VAX-11/780.
The problem with lots of the more modern machines though, are that they
>> essentially are fine if they work, but if they break, you'll have a
hard
Well, ok, if your list was intended as a
"first VAX" only list, then
That is what I believe the OP was asking for,
VAXen
either. Although, the 6000 is actually not that hard, nor some of
the small 8000-machines, such as the 8200.
The 6000 series are quite big cabinets and as a first VAX it's hard for
me to
see the great advantage over a microVAX or a VAXstation.
>> time to fix them. That goes both for the
6000 series as well as all the
>> pizza boxes.
>>
>
> My view is that there are only 2 VAXen series that I would want to run
at
home. For
me.
That is machines where component-level investigation and repair are very
possible, Those
series are the 11/780 (including the 11/782 and 11/785, of course) and
the 11/730 (including
11/725). As I don't have space for the former, I intend to run the
latter. But my requirements and
interests are likely to be very different from other people's hence my
initial comments.
The 11/782 would become very big, and use even more power. Not that an
11/780 are small to start with, but we're talking about roughly doubling
the size and power consumption here... Not to mention being a very odd
machine from a multiprocessor point of view as well. Not something I recommend unless you are seriously interested in
that specific machine.
The 11/730 and 11/725 are probably among the last machines I would ever
want to have. We all have different dreams... The 8650 is sweet. I could
possibly like a 9000 even more...
Thing about the VAXstations is that there are quite a few about that can
a
be raided for spares. There
is a printset for at least one of them on bitsavers, so I would guess
finding a faulty IC is not going to
be impossible. I refuse to actually suggst b***d-sw*pp**g but you know
what I mean....
Yeah. VAXstations makes a lot of sense for someone who just wants to run VAX and play around. The fact that you can get
spares pretty easy most of
the time has its points.
If you like playing around with the hardware as well as the software,
then
maybe there are more interesting machines around
than the pizzabox ones.
I have never seen a printset for a 6000, 7000, 8650, etc machine. Do
they
exist? I
doubt it for the
6000 series.
I don't remember if I have the printsets for the 8650, but we (Update)
sure have quite a lot of documentation for it.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
30 Jun
30 Jun
2:30 p.m.
william degnan wrote:
I recently got a Microvax 3100 and a VAX 4000-200, very pleased with how
easy they are to work with. I have had a lot more issues with
Alpahservers. VAX/Aphas running one flavor or another of openVMS.
I agree with Ian, think the 3100's are a good starter VAX. My 3100 system
has two SCSI external drives to beef it up. You get what you pay for, try
to find something in nice shape that works and pay a little extra. My
opinion.
Bill
At one time, it was possible to get considerably more than you pay for. I've
got several VAX 2000 / 3100 / 4000 systems. All were freebies / scrounged /
rescue machines. A few have battery corrosion issues but most of them work
fine. Unfortunately, ebay, along with the sources drying up has probably
greatly reduced the likelyhood of anything like them turning up for free now.
If you do get something in this line, remove the battery and put up with
it not keeping time or boot settings when switched off.
Regards.
Peter Coghlan.
1 Jul
1 Jul
3:21 a.m.
Well if we're all putting down markers, I have an 11/780 and /730; I'd love
a /750 to round out the collection. I used to have one, back in mid 1990s
it was one of the first machines I collected... Got it up and running VMS,
then loaned it to a friend, forgot to ask for it back, lost touch with
friend...
Mike
On Jul 1, 2015 11:48 AM, "Peter Coghlan" <cctalk at beyondthepale.ie>
wrote:
william degnan wrote:
I recently got a Microvax 3100 and a VAX 4000-200, very pleased with how
easy they are to work with. I have had a lot more issues with
Alpahservers. VAX/Aphas running one flavor or another of openVMS.
I agree with Ian, think the 3100's are a good starter VAX. My 3100
system
has two SCSI external drives to beef it up. You
get what you pay for,
try
to find something in nice shape that works and
pay a little extra. My
opinion.
Bill
At one time, it was possible to get considerably more than you pay for.
I've
got several VAX 2000 / 3100 / 4000 systems. All were freebies / scrounged
/
rescue machines. A few have battery corrosion issues but most of them work
fine. Unfortunately, ebay, along with the sources drying up has probably
greatly reduced the likelyhood of anything like them turning up for free
now.
If you do get something in this line, remove the battery and put up with
it not keeping time or boot settings when switched off.
Regards.
Peter Coghlan.
2:11 p.m.
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Peter Coghlan <cctalk at beyondthepale.ie>
wrote:
william degnan wrote:
I found that for some MicroVAXen, such as my 4000-300, there is a Panasonic
cordless phone battery that almost exactly fits where the original TOY
battery does, and the connector is the same! I've mentioned it here on CC,
so the part number should be in the archives.
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
I recently got a Microvax 3100 and a VAX 4000-200, very pleased with how
easy they are to work with. I have had a lot more issues with
Alpahservers. VAX/Aphas running one flavor or another of openVMS.
I agree with Ian, think the 3100's are a good starter VAX. My 3100
system
has two SCSI external drives to beef it up. You
get what you pay for,
try
to find something in nice shape that works and
pay a little extra. My
opinion.
Bill
At one time, it was possible to get considerably more than you pay for.
I've
got several VAX 2000 / 3100 / 4000 systems. All were freebies / scrounged
/
rescue machines. A few have battery corrosion issues but most of them work
fine. Unfortunately, ebay, along with the sources drying up has probably
greatly reduced the likelyhood of anything like them turning up for free
now.
If you do get something in this line, remove the battery and put up with
it not keeping time or boot settings when switched off.
2:47 p.m.
I found that for some MicroVAXen, such as my 4000-300,
there is a Panasonic
cordless phone battery that almost exactly fits where the original TOY battery
does, and the connector is the same! I've mentioned it here on CC, so the part
number should be in the archives.
Yes, I have done something similar. Here in the UK Maplin sells these, although they are
relatively expensive.
Regards
Rob
7:13 p.m.
The Microvax 3100 model DV-31BT4-A - what "number" is that model?
Originally I thought it was a "30" but then I found that there are 3100-30
nameplates, so I must be wrong. Was there just a plain vanilla Microvax
3100? Now you have me thinking I need to check for a battery. I need to
track down the hardware ref but I am unsure other than open it to see for
myself.
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Robert Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
I found that
for some MicroVAXen, such as my 4000-300, there is a
Panasonic
cordless phone battery that almost exactly fits
where the original TOY
battery
does, and the connector is the same! I've
mentioned it here on CC, so
the part
number should be in the archives.
Yes, I have done something similar. Here in the UK Maplin sells these,
although they are relatively expensive.
Regards
Rob
7:23 p.m.
On Jul 1, 2015 7:13 PM, "william degnan" <billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
The Microvax 3100 model DV-31BT4-A - what "number" is that model?
Originally I thought it was a "30" but then I found that there are 3100-30
nameplates, so I must be wrong. Was there just a plain vanilla Microvax
3100? Now you have me thinking I need to check for a battery. I need to
track down the hardware ref but I am unsure other than open it to see for
myself.
The KA41-A was either a MicroVAX 3100 Model 10 or a Model 20 depending on
which box it was in. I have a couple 3100 Model 20 and an InfoServer 100
which is the same hardware with different firmware.
http://www.netbsd.org/docs/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/microvaxes.html#sectio…
7:47 p.m.
Not that I doubt you but where is the DV-31BT4-A specifically referenced?
How do you know that this is the KA41-A 10 or 20?
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 1, 2015 7:13 PM, "william degnan"
<billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
The Microvax 3100 model DV-31BT4-A - what "number" is that model?
Originally I thought it was a "30" but then I found that there are
3100-30
nameplates, so I must be wrong. Was there just a
plain vanilla Microvax
3100? Now you have me thinking I need to check for a battery. I need to
track down the hardware ref but I am unsure other than open it to see for
myself.
The KA41-A was either a MicroVAX 3100 Model 10 or a Model 20 depending on
which box it was in. I have a couple 3100 Model 20 and an InfoServer 100
which is the same hardware with different firmware.
http://www.netbsd.org/docs/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/microvaxes.html#sectio…
7:57 p.m.
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:13 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
The Microvax 3100 model DV-31BT4-A - what
"number" is that model?
Originally I thought it was a "30" but then I found that there are 3100-30
nameplates, so I must be wrong. Was there just a plain vanilla Microvax
3100? Now you have me thinking I need to check for a battery. I need to
track down the hardware ref but I am unsure other than open it to see for
myself.
I just went and took a look at one of my MicroVAX 3100 Model 20 boxes.
The label on the back says Model DV-31BT1-A. No idea what the
difference might be between that and a DV-31BT4-A. The badge on the
front only says MicroVAX 3100 just like your picture here:
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=604
When you power it on what does it say for the KA**-* CPU version? If
it says KA41-A then it is a Model 20. A KA41-D would be a Model 20e.
Or if you were to open it up and look at the part number on the CPU board:
54-18856-01 MicroVAX 3100 Model 10 / Model 20 KA41-AA (90ns)
54-18856-02 VAXserver 3100 Model 10 / Model 20 KA41-BA (90ns)
54-18856-04 MicroVAX 3100 Model 10e / Model 20e KA41-DA (60ns)
54-18856-05 VAXserver 3100 Model 10e / Model 20e KA41-EA (60ns)
70-28103-01 InfoServer 100 KA41-CA
54-18856-06 InfoServer 150
Reference:
MicroVAX 3100 / VAXserver 3100 / InfoServer 100 SYSTEMS
Illustrated Parts Breakdown
EK-A0372-IP-003
A0372IP3.PDF
8:23 p.m.
ok. I will check it asap. Thanks for the info. basically this is a box
turns on and works...so I have not spent much time other than just change
the PW and access the system, connect to the internet quickly.
You're saying yes there is a battery in this machine?
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 10:57 PM, Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:13 PM, william degnan
<billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
The Microvax 3100 model DV-31BT4-A - what
"number" is that model?
Originally I thought it was a "30" but then I found that there are
3100-30
nameplates, so I must be wrong. Was there just a
plain vanilla Microvax
3100? Now you have me thinking I need to check for a battery. I need to
track down the hardware ref but I am unsure other than open it to see for
myself.
I just went and took a look at one of my MicroVAX 3100 Model 20 boxes.
The label on the back says Model DV-31BT1-A. No idea what the
difference might be between that and a DV-31BT4-A. The badge on the
front only says MicroVAX 3100 just like your picture here:
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=604
When you power it on what does it say for the KA**-* CPU version? If
it says KA41-A then it is a Model 20. A KA41-D would be a Model 20e.
Or if you were to open it up and look at the part number on the CPU board:
54-18856-01 MicroVAX 3100 Model 10 / Model 20 KA41-AA (90ns)
54-18856-02 VAXserver 3100 Model 10 / Model 20 KA41-BA (90ns)
54-18856-04 MicroVAX 3100 Model 10e / Model 20e KA41-DA (60ns)
54-18856-05 VAXserver 3100 Model 10e / Model 20e KA41-EA (60ns)
70-28103-01 InfoServer 100 KA41-CA
54-18856-06 InfoServer 150
Reference:
MicroVAX 3100 / VAXserver 3100 / InfoServer 100 SYSTEMS
Illustrated Parts Breakdown
EK-A0372-IP-003
A0372IP3.PDF
8:33 p.m.
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 8:23 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
You're saying yes there is a battery in this machine?
MicroVAX 3100, VAXserver 3100,
InfoServer 100 and InfoServer 150/150 VXT
Maintenance Guide
EK-A0372-MG.B01
http://manx.classiccmp.org/collections/antonio/dec/MDS-1997-10/cd1/VOL001/0…
Pages 5-25, 5-26 (page 166, 167 of the PDF)
5.2.11 Battery Pack Removal
Always good to remove those before they leak and damage anything.
8:41 p.m.
I take it the buried vax 11/780 you found has been sold off by now? I would
love to have one of the original larger machines such as the 780, although
one of the smaller desktop machines would probably be a more sane decision
to start off with.
8:42 p.m.
thanks again. I will. I guess I should check my 4000-200 too.
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 8:23 PM, william degnan
<billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
You're saying yes there is a battery in this machine?
MicroVAX 3100, VAXserver 3100,
InfoServer 100 and InfoServer 150/150 VXT
Maintenance Guide
EK-A0372-MG.B01
http://manx.classiccmp.org/collections/antonio/dec/MDS-1997-10/cd1/VOL001/0…
Pages 5-25, 5-26 (page 166, 167 of the PDF)
5.2.11 Battery Pack Removal
Always good to remove those before they leak and damage anything.
2 Jul
2 Jul
12:17 a.m.
Ive got a large sgi altix 350 machine running here almost 24/7, uses quite
a bit of power. Rivals the 2 air conditioners on power consumption. Power
is not an issue, if i do get something bigger then ill just run the altix
less and power up the vax. New house has an air conditioned office in the
garage, now would be the best time to get something big i think, but if it
is not close it will have to be shipped which would be costly. Maybe ill
start off small...
8:27 p.m.
It's not just a matter of size, but also of maintenance. Tony says, I have
the docs, I can maintain it - but do you want to chase down a logic defect
among a gazillion small- and medium-scale integration ICs? And the bus
connections? And the wire wrap? And the microcode? (I have done this.)
After restoring the VAX-11/780-5 at the Living Computer Museum and running
it for some time, we moved it to a new home. It took several days to get
it running again, reseating board, ensuring that power connections were
tight and secure - dealing with a creaky old machine that was, in truth,
once a creaky new machine.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a VAX-11/780 to be a 'bookend'
system next to my VAX 6000-660. I would love to win the lottery so I could
afford the space, the power, and the time. But after I fantasize a bit
about that, I go fire up a VAXstation, or my VAX 4000/300, or the SIMH
session I have running on OpenBSD on a G4 iBook (because I can).
Yes, start off small, and if the bug bites you, swing for the fences!
IMHO, YMMV, MOUSE -- Ian
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:17 AM, devin davison <lyokoboy0 at gmail.com> wrote:
Ive got a large sgi altix 350 machine running here
almost 24/7, uses quite
a bit of power. Rivals the 2 air conditioners on power consumption. Power
is not an issue, if i do get something bigger then ill just run the altix
less and power up the vax. New house has an air conditioned office in the
garage, now would be the best time to get something big i think, but if it
is not close it will have to be shipped which would be costly. Maybe ill
start off small...
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
29 Jun
29 Jun
9:51 p.m.
Well, ok, if your list was intended as a "first
VAX" only list, then
That is what I believe the OP was asking for,
It's not exactly like a workstation or a PC.
That is surely a Good Thing :-)
The 6000 series are quite big cabinets and as a
first VAX it's hard for me to
see the great advantage over a microVAX or a VAXstation.
They are small compared to a VAX-11/780. The 11/782 would become very big, and use even more
power. Not that an
11/780 are small to start with, but we're talking about roughly doubling
the size and power consumption here... Not to mention being a very odd
Yes, it's close to being a pair of 11/780s running in parallel.
machine from a multiprocessor point of view as well.
Not something I
would recommend unless you are seriously interested in that specific
machine.
Nor would I, but if I had the space (I don't!) I would love one...
.
The 11/730 and 11/725 are probably among the last
machines I would ever
Sure it's slow, and there is a major design misfeature -- I mean who seriously uses
DRAM as a control store, and then has to halt the CPU to refresh it every few ms. But
IMHO fitting the complete VAX CPU onto 3 hex boards using standard ICs (apart from
the memory ECC which used the same gate arrays as the 11/750) is an interesting, at
least, bit of work.
want to have. We all have different dreams... The 8650
is sweet. I could
possibly like a 9000 even more...
As I keep on saying, and I hope the OP considers this, the ideal VAX depends
on who you are. As I want to get inside the CPU with a logic analyser, there are
really only 2 series for me to consider. One large, the other slow. As I am short
of space and not time it is obvious what I looked for.
-tony
11:28 p.m.
1) Start small. You can always add to the collection later. That often occurs,
sometimes with accompanying amnesia of the actual transaction.
2) If you possess genes for ?like to take things apart? and ?ability to put things back
together *** ? start with a Q-Bus VAX. The number and types of Q-Bus boards is very
large.
3) If you don?t have both genes, start with a small MicroVAX 3100 or VAXstation
equivalent.
*** The gene for the ability to "have it work after you put it back together" is
rare and hence optional.
Whatever you do, have a good adventure.
Jerry
jsw at ieee.org
1 Jul
1 Jul
3:36 a.m.
On 29 June 2015 at 23:04, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
I don't remember if I have the printsets for the
8650, but we (Update)
sure have quite a lot of documentation for it.
IIRC I do have some 8600 *training* printsets which I scanned and made
available years ago.
I think some *real* printsets are available on bitsavers.
30 Jun
30 Jun
4:35 p.m.
On Jun 29, 2015, at 01:22 , devin davison
<lyokoboy0 at gmail.com> wrote:
My main place for looking for hardware has been ebay, although most of what
im seeing is untested and expensive. Is there a better place to find older
machines like this?
Back to the original topic: By posting your interest in joining the VAX club here,
you've already taken the first step towards getting one. As I got into retrocomputing
a couple of years ago, I found that things started finding their way to me once the
established collectors learned that I was looking for them. Keep your eyes open and be
patient, and good hunting to you!
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
5:22 p.m.
New subject: Bruker Aspect 2000 tapes
Hi All
I have a number of tapes for the Bruker Aspect 2000.
These are paper tapes. All looking for a good home.
I'd like these to go to someone with one of these computers.
It looks like it included the OS. These are paper tape, not mag tape.
Free Plus shipping.
Dwight
6:54 p.m.
New subject: Bruker Aspect 2000 tapes
On 2015-Jun-30, at 5:22 PM, dwight wrote:
Hi All
I have a number of tapes for the Bruker Aspect 2000.
These are paper tapes. All looking for a good home.
I'd like these to go to someone with one of these computers.
It looks like it included the OS. These are paper tape, not mag tape.
Free Plus shipping.
Is that the CPU that went with their NMR systems from the 70s?
A few years ago I examined the RF exciter portion of a Bruker NMR that had been dismantled
and sold off as surplus.
Wish I knew what happened to the CPU/processing portion, but it had already been separated
by the time I was involved.
Something I could wish to find/stumble-across would be one of the out-of-the-mainstream
minis from the 60s/70s - something not DEC, not HP, not IBM, not DG (although a little
Nova would be nice). Not likely these days as they were produced in relatively scant
numbers.
10:23 p.m.
New subject: Bruker Aspect 2000 tapes
From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca
On 2015-Jun-30, at 5:22 PM, dwight wrote:
Hi All
I have a number of tapes for the Bruker Aspect 2000.
These are paper tapes. All looking for a good home.
I'd like these to go to someone with one of these computers.
It looks like it included the OS. These are paper tape, not mag tape.
Free Plus shipping.
Is that the CPU that went with their NMR systems from the 70s?
A few years ago I examined the RF exciter portion of a Bruker NMR that had been
dismantled and sold off as surplus.
Wish I knew what happened to the CPU/processing portion, but it had already been
separated by the time I was involved.
Something I could wish to find/stumble-across would be one of the out-of-the-mainstream
minis from the 60s/70s - something not DEC, not HP, not IBM, not DG (although a little
Nova would be nice). Not likely these days as they were produced in relatively scant
numbers. I Believe these were made in the middle to late 70's. I understand they
were24 bit. They were probably TTL.Bruker used Nicolet computers until they build their
own. They made both the 2000and the 3000. That is about all I know about them.They were
designed in Germany.Dwight 
1 Jul
1 Jul
2:21 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 06:54:51PM -0700, Brent Hilpert wrote:
Something I could wish to find/stumble-across would be
one of the
out-of-the-mainstream minis from the 60s/70s - something not DEC,
not HP, not IBM, not DG (although a little Nova would be nice).
I had to suffer through building something on a Computer Automation
mini back in the, well, never you mind when it was. (The misery was
not the mini's fault). So I would take one of those if it came
available.
Still hoping for an 11/20, of course.
mcl
2:26 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
Varian made interesting mini computers with a very cool front panel.
I think RCA at one time also made smaller computers along with the
Spectra/70 mainframe series.
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Mark Linimon <linimon at lonesome.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 06:54:51PM -0700, Brent
Hilpert wrote:
--
Matt Patoray
Owner, MSP Productions
(330)542-3698
mspproductions at gmail.com
KD8AMG Amateur Radio Call Sign
Something I could wish to find/stumble-across
would be one of the
out-of-the-mainstream minis from the 60s/70s - something not DEC,
not HP, not IBM, not DG (although a little Nova would be nice).
I had to suffer through building something on a Computer Automation
mini back in the, well, never you mind when it was. (The misery was
not the mini's fault). So I would take one of those if it came
available.
Still hoping for an 11/20, of course.
mcl
2:56 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On 2015-Jul-01, at 2:26 PM, Matt Patoray wrote:
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Mark Linimon
<linimon at lonesome.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 06:54:51PM -0700, Brent Hilpert wrote:
>> Something I could wish to find/stumble-across would be one of the
>> out-of-the-mainstream minis from the 60s/70s - something not DEC,
>> not HP, not IBM, not DG (although a little Nova would be nice).
>
> I had to suffer through building something on a Computer Automation
> mini back in the, well, never you mind when it was. (The misery was
> not the mini's fault). So I would take one of those if it came
> available.
>
> Still hoping for an 11/20, of course.
Varian made interesting mini computers with a very
cool front panel.
I think RCA at one time also made smaller computers along with the
Spectra/70 mainframe series.
It's always surprising how much variety there was in the mini market of that era.
Even when you take out what might be called the 2nd tier of manufacturers such as
Microdata, Prime and so on, there was still a plethora of also-rans.
I find it an interesting era: once ICs were readily available and easy to design with
(mainly TTL), everyone and their dog decided they would take a stab at building and
marketing a CPU. I was a kid in that era so wasn't on the inside, but my offhand
interpretation is that while some of them may have been successful in niche areas such as
instrumentation, in the main they got shook out when the reality of maintaining, marketing
and evolving a system architecture hit. But, that's an historical progression common
to many/most new technologies -
same thing happened in the microprocessor market a few years a later.
A Varian has been sitting on ebay for sometime now .. sitting, because the price is
silly:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-VARIAN-DATA-MACHINES-620-L-100-COMPUTER-/22…
2 Jul
2 Jul
2:39 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
There are interesting and obscure machines from the most mainstream
manufacturers.
Take the IBM System/7. Successor to the 1800, succeeded by the
Series/1. They were *ubiquitous* - one in every telephone exchange in
the USA, I've heard. They even made a special ruggedised version for
shipboard use. Yet they're functionally *extinct*. Henk Stegeman in
the Netherlands has most of one, but is missing a crucial board (ALU
IIRC). I had a front panel, which I donated to Henk, and an OS disk. I
retain one of the special IBM-branded ASR33 Teletypes that were
sometimes used with them, plus a couple of manuals and sales
brochures, And that's *it*. Unless anyone knows different, no complete
systems exist. They're extinct, and that's a scandal and a shame.
Mike
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote:
On 2015-Jul-01, at 2:26 PM, Matt Patoray wrote:
--
http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Mark Linimon
<linimon at lonesome.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 06:54:51PM -0700, Brent Hilpert wrote:
>> Something I could wish to find/stumble-across would be one of the
>> out-of-the-mainstream minis from the 60s/70s - something not DEC,
>> not HP, not IBM, not DG (although a little Nova would be nice).
>
> I had to suffer through building something on a Computer Automation
> mini back in the, well, never you mind when it was. (The misery was
> not the mini's fault). So I would take one of those if it came
> available.
>
> Still hoping for an 11/20, of course.
Varian made interesting mini computers with a
very cool front panel.
I think RCA at one time also made smaller computers along with the
Spectra/70 mainframe series.
It's always surprising how much variety there was in the mini market of that era.
Even when you take out what might be called the 2nd tier of manufacturers such as
Microdata, Prime and so on, there was still a plethora of also-rans.
I find it an interesting era: once ICs were readily available and easy to design with
(mainly TTL), everyone and their dog decided they would take a stab at building and
marketing a CPU. I was a kid in that era so wasn't on the inside, but my offhand
interpretation is that while some of them may have been successful in niche areas such as
instrumentation, in the main they got shook out when the reality of maintaining, marketing
and evolving a system architecture hit. But, that's an historical progression common
to many/most new technologies -
same thing happened in the microprocessor market a few years a later.
A Varian has been sitting on ebay for sometime now .. sitting, because the price is
silly:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-VARIAN-DATA-MACHINES-620-L-100-COMPUTER-/22…
7:15 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
Anyone ever heard of the IS1000? I can't remember if it was made by GE or
GTE.
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Mike Ross <tmfdmike at gmail.com> wrote:
There are interesting and obscure machines from the
most mainstream
manufacturers.
Take the IBM System/7. Successor to the 1800, succeeded by the
Series/1. They were *ubiquitous* - one in every telephone exchange in
the USA, I've heard. They even made a special ruggedised version for
shipboard use. Yet they're functionally *extinct*. Henk Stegeman in
the Netherlands has most of one, but is missing a crucial board (ALU
IIRC). I had a front panel, which I donated to Henk, and an OS disk. I
retain one of the special IBM-branded ASR33 Teletypes that were
sometimes used with them, plus a couple of manuals and sales
brochures, And that's *it*. Unless anyone knows different, no complete
systems exist. They're extinct, and that's a scandal and a shame.
Mike
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote:
that
era.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-VARIAN-DATA-MACHINES-620-L-100-COMPUTER-/22…
--
http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
On 2015-Jul-01, at 2:26 PM, Matt Patoray wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Mark Linimon <linimon at lonesome.com>
wrote:
> On
Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 06:54:51PM -0700, Brent Hilpert wrote:
>> Something I could wish to find/stumble-across would be one of the
>> out-of-the-mainstream minis from the 60s/70s - something not DEC,
>> not HP, not IBM, not DG (although a little Nova would be nice).
>
> I had to suffer through building something on a Computer Automation
> mini back in the, well, never you mind when it was. (The misery was
> not the mini's fault). So I would take one of those if it came
> available.
>
> Still hoping for an 11/20, of course.
Varian made interesting mini computers with a
very cool front panel.
I think RCA at one time also made smaller computers along with the
Spectra/70 mainframe series.
It's always surprising how much variety there was in the mini market of Even when you take out what might be called the
2nd tier of
manufacturers such as Microdata, Prime and so on, there was still a
plethora of also-rans.
I find it an interesting era: once ICs were readily available and easy
to design
with (mainly TTL), everyone and their dog decided they would take
a stab at building and marketing a CPU. I was a kid in that era so wasn't
on the inside, but my offhand interpretation is that while some of them may
have been successful in niche areas such as instrumentation, in the main
they got shook out when the reality of maintaining, marketing and evolving
a system architecture hit. But, that's an historical progression common to
many/most new technologies -
same thing happened in the microprocessor market
a few years a later.
A Varian has been sitting on ebay for sometime now .. sitting, because
the price
is silly:
8:33 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On 2 July 2015 at 17:39, Mike Ross <tmfdmike at gmail.com> wrote:
Take the IBM System/7. Successor to the 1800,
succeeded by the
Series/1. They were *ubiquitous* - one in every telephone exchange in
the USA, I've heard. They even made a special ruggedised version for
Being into
telephony, I can say that I've not heard anything about IBM
System/7 machines being used in exchanges. I do know that the WECo ESS
exchanges did, of course, have computers. But the ESS exchange
computers were custom systems and architectures built by Western
Electric.
The 1ESS/1AESS computer architecture is however, nearly completely
extinct. There are, I believe, only two 1ESS/1AESS switches left. One
is a partial, and non-functional exchange at the museum of
communications in Seattle; the processor is complete, and it has one
of each requisite switching frame, but it can't be used as they need
to recompile the software that runs it (which isn't possible as
they're lacking the crucial internal compiler that ran on WECo's IBM
System/3x0 machines). The other 1ESS/1AESS switch is a complete and
functional unit, still in service, last I heard. But there are plans
to scrap it and put in a modern switch in its place. Saving it would
be a difficult proposition, to say the least.
Regards,
Christian
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
3 Jul
3 Jul
10:48 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
I was going to write almost exactly this ... although the Wiki page
mentions that AT&T was one of the primary customers of the System/7, AFAIK,
the common control on the 1/2/3/4ESS switches was a proprietary WECo design
that was highly integrated into the design of the switch itself ... in the
5E, I think the common control became a 3B20D mini and later this was
replaced with an emulator of same running on some number of SPARCstations
...?
For operations support systems, I thought DEC was very popular in the Bell
System; I thought many OSS ran on some modified UNIX variant or another on
PDP-11 or, perhaps later, VAX which would have roughly been contemporaneous
with the System/7 ... I would be really interested to know what the
System/7 did at AT&T if anyone is familiar.
I have a particular interested in collecting digital telephone switches ...
and I too find it a real bummer that we could find ourselves in a world
where there isn't one complete, functional example of such historic
machines as the 1AESS, 4ESS, DMS-100, 5ESS and so on. Many completely
functional examples of the old cord-boards and even the electromechanical
step-by-step and crossbar switches exist in private hands but as far as I
know, nobody has managed to save a complete digital CO switch of any
vintage.
Best,
Sean
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove <
captainkirk359 at gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 July 2015 at 17:39, Mike Ross <tmfdmike at
gmail.com> wrote:
Take the IBM System/7. Successor to the 1800,
succeeded by the
Series/1. They were *ubiquitous* - one in every telephone exchange in
the USA, I've heard. They even made a special ruggedised version for
Being
into telephony, I can say that I've not heard anything about IBM
System/7 machines being used in exchanges. I do know that the WECo ESS
exchanges did, of course, have computers. But the ESS exchange
computers were custom systems and architectures built by Western
Electric.
The 1ESS/1AESS computer architecture is however, nearly completely
extinct. There are, I believe, only two 1ESS/1AESS switches left. One
is a partial, and non-functional exchange at the museum of
communications in Seattle; the processor is complete, and it has one
of each requisite switching frame, but it can't be used as they need
to recompile the software that runs it (which isn't possible as
they're lacking the crucial internal compiler that ran on WECo's IBM
System/3x0 machines). The other 1ESS/1AESS switch is a complete and
functional unit, still in service, last I heard. But there are plans
to scrap it and put in a modern switch in its place. Saving it would
be a difficult proposition, to say the least.
Regards,
Christian
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
4 Jul
4 Jul
5:51 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On Jul 4, 2015 8:40 AM, "Sean Caron" <scaron at umich.edu> wrote:
I would be really interested to know what the
System/7 did at AT&T if anyone is familiar.
As I mentioned, I'm reasonably certain that I've read it was hooked into
the billing/metering system.
Mike
3:33 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On 07/03/2015 12:48 PM, Sean Caron wrote:
For operations support systems, I thought DEC was very popular in the Bell
System; I thought many OSS ran on some modified UNIX variant or another on
PDP-11 or, perhaps later, VAX which would have roughly been contemporaneous
with the System/7
The System/7 was introduced in 1971, so it was about a whole
generation before the VAX, introduced in late 1977.
Jon
3 Jul
3 Jul
1:48 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
I do difficult propositions, including prying pdps away from the cold
dead hands of the British ministry of defence! So tell more? You can
reach me off-list at this address.
I had been told that the System/7s were part of the billing system,
rather than the switch itself. My info may be defective, but that's
what I was told; one per exchange. I believe I have some doc referring
to that application.
Mike
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
<captainkirk359 at gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 July 2015 at 17:39, Mike Ross <tmfdmike at
gmail.com> wrote:
--
http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
Take the IBM System/7. Successor to the 1800,
succeeded by the
Series/1. They were *ubiquitous* - one in every telephone exchange in
the USA, I've heard. They even made a special ruggedised version for
Being
into telephony, I can say that I've not heard anything about IBM
System/7 machines being used in exchanges. I do know that the WECo ESS
exchanges did, of course, have computers. But the ESS exchange
computers were custom systems and architectures built by Western
Electric.
The 1ESS/1AESS computer architecture is however, nearly completely
extinct. There are, I believe, only two 1ESS/1AESS switches left. One
is a partial, and non-functional exchange at the museum of
communications in Seattle; the processor is complete, and it has one
of each requisite switching frame, but it can't be used as they need
to recompile the software that runs it (which isn't possible as
they're lacking the crucial internal compiler that ran on WECo's IBM
System/3x0 machines). The other 1ESS/1AESS switch is a complete and
functional unit, still in service, last I heard. But there are plans
to scrap it and put in a modern switch in its place. Saving it would
be a difficult proposition, to say the least.
Regards,
Christian
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
2:53 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Ross
Sent: 03 July 2015 21:48
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: out-of-mainstream minis
I do difficult propositions, including prying pdps away from the cold dead hands
of the British ministry of defence! So tell more? You can reach me off-list at
this address.
Any tips on how to get stuff out of the MOD?
Regards
Rob
5:20 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On 3 July 2015 at 16:48, Mike Ross <tmfdmike at gmail.com> wrote:
I do difficult propositions, including prying pdps
away from the cold
dead hands of the British ministry of defence! So tell more? You can
reach me off-list at this address.
My information was slightly incorrect. It appears that there is more
than one 1ESS/1AESS still around, but they are being replaced quite
speedily. (Also sending you a mail real quick off list.)
I had been told that the System/7s were part of the
billing system,
rather than the switch itself. My info may be defective, but that's
what I was told; one per exchange. I believe I have some doc referring
to that application.
Ahh, yeah I don't know much about the billing system. My main interest
is the switching machines. I know that WECo used some DEC PDP systems
in some of their interesting experimental work. Prime examples being
the COSMIC automated system for managing MDFs. And I believe a PDP-8/e
was used as an experimental replacement for the card translator of the
#4A toll crossbars before the "proper" 4A-ETS came out (I think they
also used an 8/e in managing Dimond ring translators).
But that's beyond the scope of interesting non-mainstream minis.
Cheers,
Christian
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
2 Jul
2 Jul
8:44 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
Take the IBM System/7. Successor to the 1800,
succeeded by the
Series/1. They were *ubiquitous* - one in every telephone exchange in
the USA, I've heard. They even made a special ruggedised version for
shipboard use. Yet they're functionally *extinct*...Unless anyone knows different, no
complete
systems exist. They're extinct, and that's a scandal and a shame.
There exist S/7s in museums in Finland and (I think) Japan. No doubt
there are some still hidden away.
As of 15 years ago, bigger MCI sites had System/88s.
--
Will
1 Jul
1 Jul
3:22 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On Wed, Jul 01, 2015 at 05:26:14PM -0400, Matt Patoray wrote:
I think RCA at one time also made smaller computers
along with the
Spectra/70 mainframe series.
If anyone has a front panel from one of those to sell ... :-)
(I only saw one, as a kid, in high school. It was neat industrial
design.)
mcl
10:31 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
Not all minis came from the States :-)
One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800 series. It's
a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program counter and 15
is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and separate
I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O). There were several models
with various implementations of the architecture, including
P850 (TTL, hardwired not microcoded)
P855, P852, P856, P857, P860 (TTL, microcoded)
P851 (Custom bitslice ICs, microcoded)
P854 (AM2900 bitslice, microcoded)
P853 I think (Single chip)
No, I don't have all of those...
-tony
2 Jul
2 Jul
12:43 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
I share your favourite(s). In the danish IT-museum-to-be (www.datamuseum.dk) we have two
P857-based systems running. We have lots of spare parts and nearly all documentation, so
if you need something, you are welcome to ask.
I'm presently building a "table top" version of a system with the P857 CPU,
35cm H x 60 deep x 19" wide, with a dual 8" floppy drive, and a 80486 PC for
program loading etc.
The system is built into a P859 box. The P859 CPU is special, as it has a V24 connection
that goes to a LED display with push buttons. Very nice indeed.
For that system, I have developped a Windows based Assembler, and a Windows based
simulator. The simulator takes assembled programs (in my system called *.OBJ) and the
original source. You can then step through the instructions, and follow them through the
text file on the PC.
I am presently trying to execute various utility programs, sent to me by a Belgion
ex-Philips employee, who did a lot of work on the P800 series.
I myself worked with the P800 series, disguised as the PTS6800 series for 4-5 years full
time.
The PTS 6800 series was used extensively in banks, mainly in Scandinavia, Greece, Barclay
SouthAfrica, Philippines. In Sweden also in the airline industry. In Denmark it was used
mainly by local authorities, PTT, Railway (ticket printing), and some other small-time
projects. In one of the project it was connected to an ATM (fun project).
I know of one collector in the Netherlands (Camiel), and some guys who have no hardware
but a lot of knowledge
/Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: tony duell
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 7:31 AM
Subject: RE: out-of-mainstream minis
Not all minis came from the States :-)
One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800 series. It's
a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program counter and 15
is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and separate
I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O). There were several models
with various implementations of the architecture, including
P850 (TTL, hardwired not microcoded)
P855, P852, P856, P857, P860 (TTL, microcoded)
P851 (Custom bitslice ICs, microcoded)
P854 (AM2900 bitslice, microcoded)
P853 I think (Single chip)
No, I don't have all of those...
-tony
=
7:36 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
I share your favourite(s). In the danish
IT-museum-to-be (www.datamuseum.dk) we have two
P857-based systems running. We have lots of spare parts and nearly all documentation, so
if you need something, you are welcome to ask.
Unfortunately I don't own anything in that series :-(. What I have is :
P850 in the 6U rack box. I have the CPU technical manual and user manuals for it.
P851 in card cage with quite a bit of I/O and twin 8" floppies. I have the user
manual, CPU and I/O
technical manuals and manuals for the floppy drive unit, including the CDC manual for the
drives themselves
P854 in cardcage with floppy drives and hard disk controller. Alas the X1215 hard disk was
scrapped before
I got it. I have a preliminary CPU technical manual, and of course I/O boards are the same
as the P851 ones.
Quite a few spare boards including complete P851 and P854 CPU board sets, I/O, RAM,
extender board,
prototyping boards (some have been used, I think I even have a brand new one), a
single-chip P800 CPU,
and so on.
The manuals I am looking for (some hope!) are :
The full P854 CPU technical manual (the one I have does not include the microcode source,
that is 'to be
supplied').
Information on the hard disk controller for the X1215 in the P854 chassis. This is one
eurocard with
an 8X305 or something on it. I have some handwritten notes + a block diagram nothing
more.
P850 Core memory module technical manual
P850/855 series I/O board technical manuals.
It is possible I could get the manuals I have scanned if there is any serious interest
-tony
P850 I/O board technical manuals
10:28 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On 02.07.2015 16:36, tony duell wrote:
20 years ago I had to scrap 5-6 P856, just did not have the room, was no interest.
Blinkenlights and core memory and all...( did save some core boards )
Times have changed !
Jos
I share your favourite(s). In the danish
IT-museum-to-be (www.datamuseum.dk) we have two
P857-based systems running. We have lots of spare parts and nearly all documentation, so
if you need something, you are welcome to ask.
Unfortunately I don't own anything in that series :-(. What I have is :
21 Aug
21 Aug
3:27 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
I had the privilege of visiting what Nico calls a 'museum-to-be' yesterday
evening, and it is far more than most of what I've seen! They have a very
substantial collection of all sorts of systems, peripherals and
documentation, including a GIER from ca. 1962 that I saw (and heard) run.
As a debugging/operations aid, they had attached the overflow bit to a
speaker so it could generate 1-bit sound - one demo they gave me was a
program to calculate e that played a sound for each iteration so you could
hear the steady progress. But of course if there is a sound output, no one
can avoid playing with it. There were numerous pieces of computationally
generated music composed for the machine (on paper tape), but also a
program for playing a recorded, real-life sound in 1-bit audio!
The collection includes numerous other computers including pretty much the
entire RC line, as well as pre-computer tabulators, keypunches, paper
handling machine and the like. The artifacts are well-ordered and in large
part well labeled for even the uninitiated visitor.
Everything is laid out quite thoughtfully, with wide aisles, in a large,
well-lit basement. There are interpretive displays here and there, as well
as a small but appealing lecture/display area.
The datamuseum.dk collection represents 25 years of accumulation, I was
told. But more importantly, I think their work demonstrates a very
well-considered approach for presenting the history of the collection's
machines to visitors.
My hosts were also warm and wonderful people who clearly love what they do
and enjoy sharing it. They made me feel among friends, if not family. :-)
Thanks, Finn and everyone else (sorry, I'm bad with names), for sharing
your time and your passion with me! -- Ian
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Nico de Jong <nico at farumdata.dk> wrote:
I share your favourite(s). In the danish
IT-museum-to-be (
www.datamuseum.dk) we have two P857-based systems running. We have lots
of spare parts and nearly all documentation, so if you need something, you
are welcome to ask.
I'm presently building a "table top" version of a system with the P857
CPU, 35cm H x 60 deep x 19" wide, with a dual 8" floppy drive, and a 80486
PC for program loading etc.
The system is built into a P859 box. The P859 CPU is special, as it has a
V24 connection that goes to a LED display with push buttons. Very nice
indeed.
For that system, I have developped a Windows based Assembler, and a
Windows based simulator. The simulator takes assembled programs (in my
system called *.OBJ) and the original source. You can then step through the
instructions, and follow them through the text file on the PC.
I am presently trying to execute various utility programs, sent to me by a
Belgion ex-Philips employee, who did a lot of work on the P800 series.
I myself worked with the P800 series, disguised as the PTS6800 series for
4-5 years full time.
The PTS 6800 series was used extensively in banks, mainly in Scandinavia,
Greece, Barclay SouthAfrica, Philippines. In Sweden also in the airline
industry. In Denmark it was used mainly by local authorities, PTT, Railway
(ticket printing), and some other small-time projects. In one of the
project it was connected to an ATM (fun project).
I know of one collector in the Netherlands (Camiel), and some guys who
have no hardware but a lot of knowledge
/Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: tony duell
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 7:31 AM
Subject: RE: out-of-mainstream minis
Not all minis came from the States :-)
One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800 series.
It's
a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program counter and 15
is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and separate
I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O). There were several models
with various implementations of the architecture, including
P850 (TTL, hardwired not microcoded)
P855, P852, P856, P857, P860 (TTL, microcoded)
P851 (Custom bitslice ICs, microcoded)
P854 (AM2900 bitslice, microcoded)
P853 I think (Single chip)
No, I don't have all of those...
-tony
=
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
3:40 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
I'm sure its very intersting.
The website is designed for domestic consumption only as its all in Danish.
Rod
On 21/08/2015 11:27, Ian S. King wrote:
I had the privilege of visiting what Nico calls a
'museum-to-be' yesterday
evening, and it is far more than most of what I've seen! They have a very
substantial collection of all sorts of systems, peripherals and
documentation, including a GIER from ca. 1962 that I saw (and heard) run.
As a debugging/operations aid, they had attached the overflow bit to a
speaker so it could generate 1-bit sound - one demo they gave me was a
program to calculate e that played a sound for each iteration so you could
hear the steady progress. But of course if there is a sound output, no one
can avoid playing with it. There were numerous pieces of computationally
generated music composed for the machine (on paper tape), but also a
program for playing a recorded, real-life sound in 1-bit audio!
The collection includes numerous other computers including pretty much the
entire RC line, as well as pre-computer tabulators, keypunches, paper
handling machine and the like. The artifacts are well-ordered and in large
part well labeled for even the uninitiated visitor.
Everything is laid out quite thoughtfully, with wide aisles, in a large,
well-lit basement. There are interpretive displays here and there, as well
as a small but appealing lecture/display area.
The datamuseum.dk collection represents 25 years of accumulation, I was
told. But more importantly, I think their work demonstrates a very
well-considered approach for presenting the history of the collection's
machines to visitors.
My hosts were also warm and wonderful people who clearly love what they do
and enjoy sharing it. They made me feel among friends, if not family. :-)
Thanks, Finn and everyone else (sorry, I'm bad with names), for sharing
your time and your passion with me! -- Ian
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Nico de Jong <nico at farumdata.dk> wrote:
I share your favourite(s). In the danish
IT-museum-to-be (
www.datamuseum.dk) we have two P857-based systems running. We have lots
of spare parts and nearly all documentation, so if you need something, you
are welcome to ask.
I'm presently building a "table top" version of a system with the P857
CPU, 35cm H x 60 deep x 19" wide, with a dual 8" floppy drive, and a 80486
PC for program loading etc.
The system is built into a P859 box. The P859 CPU is special, as it has a
V24 connection that goes to a LED display with push buttons. Very nice
indeed.
For that system, I have developped a Windows based Assembler, and a
Windows based simulator. The simulator takes assembled programs (in my
system called *.OBJ) and the original source. You can then step through the
instructions, and follow them through the text file on the PC.
I am presently trying to execute various utility programs, sent to me by a
Belgion ex-Philips employee, who did a lot of work on the P800 series.
I myself worked with the P800 series, disguised as the PTS6800 series for
4-5 years full time.
The PTS 6800 series was used extensively in banks, mainly in Scandinavia,
Greece, Barclay SouthAfrica, Philippines. In Sweden also in the airline
industry. In Denmark it was used mainly by local authorities, PTT, Railway
(ticket printing), and some other small-time projects. In one of the
project it was connected to an ATM (fun project).
I know of one collector in the Netherlands (Camiel), and some guys who
have no hardware but a lot of knowledge
/Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: tony duell
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 7:31 AM
Subject: RE: out-of-mainstream minis
Not all minis came from the States :-)
One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800 series.
It's
a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program counter and 15
is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and separate
I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O). There were several models
with various implementations of the architecture, including
P850 (TTL, hardwired not microcoded)
P855, P852, P856, P857, P860 (TTL, microcoded)
P851 (Custom bitslice ICs, microcoded)
P854 (AM2900 bitslice, microcoded)
P853 I think (Single chip)
No, I don't have all of those...
-tony
=
5:35 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
Google Translate does a reasonable job...
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=da&tl=en&js=y&prev=_…
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod
Smallwood
Sent: 21 August 2015 11:41
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: out-of-mainstream minis
I'm sure its very intersting.
The website is designed for domestic consumption only as its all in Danish.
Rod
On 21/08/2015 11:27, Ian S. King wrote:
I had the privilege of visiting what Nico calls a
'museum-to-be'
yesterday evening, and it is far more than most of what I've seen!
They have a very substantial collection of all sorts of systems,
peripherals and documentation, including a GIER from ca. 1962 that I saw
(and
heard) run.
As a debugging/operations aid, they had attached
the overflow bit to a
speaker so it could generate 1-bit sound - one demo they gave me was a
program to calculate e that played a sound for each iteration so you
could hear the steady progress. But of course if there is a sound
output, no one can avoid playing with it. There were numerous pieces
of computationally generated music composed for the machine (on paper
tape), but also a program for playing a recorded, real-life sound in 1-bit
audio!
The collection includes numerous other computers including pretty much
the entire RC line, as well as pre-computer tabulators, keypunches,
paper handling machine and the like. The artifacts are well-ordered
and in large part well labeled for even the uninitiated visitor.
Everything is laid out quite thoughtfully, with wide aisles, in a
large, well-lit basement. There are interpretive displays here and
there, as well as a small but appealing lecture/display area.
The datamuseum.dk collection represents 25 years of accumulation, I
was told. But more importantly, I think their work demonstrates a
very well-considered approach for presenting the history of the
collection's machines to visitors.
My hosts were also warm and wonderful people who clearly love what
they do and enjoy sharing it. They made me feel among friends, if not
family. :-)
Thanks, Finn and everyone else (sorry, I'm bad with names), for
sharing your time and your passion with me! -- Ian
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Nico de Jong <nico at farumdata.dk> wrote:
> I share your favourite(s). In the danish IT-museum-to-be (
> www.datamuseum.dk) we have two P857-based systems running. We
have
> lots of spare parts and nearly all
documentation, so if you need
> something, you are welcome to ask.
> I'm presently building a "table top" version of a system with the
> P857 CPU, 35cm H x 60 deep x 19" wide, with a dual 8" floppy drive,
> and a 80486 PC for program loading etc.
> The system is built into a P859 box. The P859 CPU is special, as it
> has a
> V24 connection that goes to a LED display with push buttons. Very
> nice indeed.
> For that system, I have developped a Windows based Assembler, and a
> Windows based simulator. The simulator takes assembled programs (in
> my system called *.OBJ) and the original source. You can then step
> through the instructions, and follow them through the text file on the PC.
> I am presently trying to execute various utility programs, sent to me
> by a Belgion ex-Philips employee, who did a lot of work on the P800
series.
> I myself worked with the P800 series,
disguised as the PTS6800 series
> for
> 4-5 years full time.
> The PTS 6800 series was used extensively in banks, mainly in
> Scandinavia, Greece, Barclay SouthAfrica, Philippines. In Sweden also
> in the airline industry. In Denmark it was used mainly by local
> authorities, PTT, Railway (ticket printing), and some other
> small-time projects. In one of the project it was connected to an ATM (fun
project).
>> I know of one collector in the Netherlands (Camiel), and some guys
>> who have no hardware but a lot of knowledge /Nico
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: tony duell
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 7:31 AM
>> Subject: RE: out-of-mainstream minis
>>
>>
>> Not all minis came from the States :-)
>>
>> One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800 series.
>> It's
>> a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program counter and 15
>> is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and separate
>> I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O). There were several models
>> with various implementations of the architecture, including
>>
>> P850 (TTL, hardwired not microcoded)
>>
>> P855, P852, P856, P857, P860 (TTL, microcoded)
>>
>> P851 (Custom bitslice ICs, microcoded)
>>
>> P854 (AM2900 bitslice, microcoded)
>>
>> P853 I think (Single chip)
>>
>> No, I don't have all of those...
>>
>> -tony
>> =
>>
>
>
7:30 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
Hi
Yes I know, but its not the norm to link from an English language email
to a site in another language with no warning.
I suppose they think everybody speaks Danish.
You could be heading into some real dark places without knowing. Rule
16b never logon to a site you cant read.
Rod
On 21/08/2015 13:35, Dave G4UGM wrote:
Google Translate does a reasonable job...
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=da&tl=en&js=y&prev=_…
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod
Smallwood
Sent: 21 August 2015 11:41
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: out-of-mainstream minis
I'm sure its very intersting.
The website is designed for domestic consumption only as its all in Danish.
Rod
On 21/08/2015 11:27, Ian S. King wrote:
I had the privilege of visiting what Nico calls a
'museum-to-be'
yesterday evening, and it is far more than most of what I've seen!
They have a very substantial collection of all sorts of systems,
peripherals and documentation, including a GIER from ca. 1962 that I saw
(and
heard) run.
As a debugging/operations aid, they had attached
the overflow bit to a
speaker so it could generate 1-bit sound - one demo they gave me was a
program to calculate e that played a sound for each iteration so you
could hear the steady progress. But of course if there is a sound
output, no one can avoid playing with it. There were numerous pieces
of computationally generated music composed for the machine (on paper
tape), but also a program for playing a recorded, real-life sound in 1-bit
audio!
The collection includes numerous other computers
including pretty much
the entire RC line, as well as pre-computer tabulators, keypunches,
paper handling machine and the like. The artifacts are well-ordered
and in large part well labeled for even the uninitiated visitor.
Everything is laid out quite thoughtfully, with wide aisles, in a
large, well-lit basement. There are interpretive displays here and
there, as well as a small but appealing lecture/display area.
The datamuseum.dk collection represents 25 years of accumulation, I
was told. But more importantly, I think their work demonstrates a
very well-considered approach for presenting the history of the
collection's machines to visitors.
My hosts were also warm and wonderful people who clearly love what
they do and enjoy sharing it. They made me feel among friends, if not
family. :-)
Thanks, Finn and everyone else (sorry, I'm bad with names), for
sharing your time and your passion with me! -- Ian
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Nico de Jong <nico at farumdata.dk> wrote:
> I share your favourite(s). In the danish IT-museum-to-be (
> www.datamuseum.dk) we have two P857-based systems running. We
have
> lots of spare parts and nearly all
documentation, so if you need
> something, you are welcome to ask.
> I'm presently building a "table top" version of a system with the
> P857 CPU, 35cm H x 60 deep x 19" wide, with a dual 8" floppy drive,
> and a 80486 PC for program loading etc.
> The system is built into a P859 box. The P859 CPU is special, as it
> has a
> V24 connection that goes to a LED display with push buttons. Very
> nice indeed.
> For that system, I have developped a Windows based Assembler, and a
> Windows based simulator. The simulator takes assembled programs (in
> my system called *.OBJ) and the original source. You can then step
> through the instructions, and follow them through the text file on the PC.
> I am presently trying to execute various utility programs, sent to me
> by a Belgion ex-Philips employee, who did a lot of work on the P800
series.
> I myself worked with the P800 series,
disguised as the PTS6800 series
> for
> 4-5 years full time.
> The PTS 6800 series was used extensively in banks, mainly in
> Scandinavia, Greece, Barclay SouthAfrica, Philippines. In Sweden also
> in the airline industry. In Denmark it was used mainly by local
> authorities, PTT, Railway (ticket printing), and some other
> small-time projects. In one of the project it was connected to an ATM (fun
project).
>> I know of one collector in the Netherlands (Camiel), and some guys
>> who have no hardware but a lot of knowledge /Nico
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: tony duell
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 7:31 AM
>> Subject: RE: out-of-mainstream minis
>>
>>
>> Not all minis came from the States :-)
>>
>> One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800 series.
>> It's
>> a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program counter and 15
>> is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and separate
>> I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O). There were several models
>> with various implementations of the architecture, including
>>
>> P850 (TTL, hardwired not microcoded)
>>
>> P855, P852, P856, P857, P860 (TTL, microcoded)
>>
>> P851 (Custom bitslice ICs, microcoded)
>>
>> P854 (AM2900 bitslice, microcoded)
>>
>> P853 I think (Single chip)
>>
>> No, I don't have all of those...
>>
>> -tony
>> =
>>
> 
7:45 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On 2015-08-21 10:30 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Hi
Yes I know, but its not the norm to link from an English language email
to a site in another language with no warning.
I suppose they think everybody speaks Danish.
You could be heading into some real dark places without knowing. Rule
16b never logon to a site you cant read.
No "darker" than any English language site.
--Toby
Rod
On 21/08/2015 13:35, Dave G4UGM wrote:
Google Translate does a reasonable job...
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=da&tl=en&js=y&prev=_…
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod
Smallwood
Sent: 21 August 2015 11:41
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: out-of-mainstream minis
I'm sure its very intersting.
The website is designed for domestic consumption only as its all in
Danish.
Rod
On 21/08/2015 11:27, Ian S. King wrote:
I had the privilege of visiting what Nico calls a
'museum-to-be'
yesterday evening, and it is far more than most of what I've seen!
They have a very substantial collection of all sorts of systems,
peripherals and documentation, including a GIER from ca. 1962 that I
saw
(and heard) run.
As a debugging/operations aid, they had attached
the overflow bit to a
speaker so it could generate 1-bit sound - one demo they gave me was a
program to calculate e that played a sound for each iteration so you
could hear the steady progress. But of course if there is a sound
output, no one can avoid playing with it. There were numerous pieces
of computationally generated music composed for the machine (on paper
tape), but also a program for playing a recorded, real-life sound in
1-bit
audio!
The collection includes numerous other computers
including pretty much
the entire RC line, as well as pre-computer tabulators, keypunches,
paper handling machine and the like. The artifacts are well-ordered
and in large part well labeled for even the uninitiated visitor.
Everything is laid out quite thoughtfully, with wide aisles, in a
large, well-lit basement. There are interpretive displays here and
there, as well as a small but appealing lecture/display area.
The datamuseum.dk collection represents 25 years of accumulation, I
was told. But more importantly, I think their work demonstrates a
very well-considered approach for presenting the history of the
collection's machines to visitors.
My hosts were also warm and wonderful people who clearly love what
they do and enjoy sharing it. They made me feel among friends, if not
family. :-)
Thanks, Finn and everyone else (sorry, I'm bad with names), for
sharing your time and your passion with me! -- Ian
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Nico de Jong <nico at farumdata.dk>
wrote:
> I share your favourite(s). In the danish IT-museum-to-be (
> www.datamuseum.dk) we have two P857-based systems running. We
have
> lots of spare parts and nearly all
documentation, so if you need
> something, you are welcome to ask.
> I'm presently building a "table top" version of a system with the
> P857 CPU, 35cm H x 60 deep x 19" wide, with a dual 8" floppy drive,
> and a 80486 PC for program loading etc.
> The system is built into a P859 box. The P859 CPU is special, as it
> has a
> V24 connection that goes to a LED display with push buttons. Very
> nice indeed.
> For that system, I have developped a Windows based Assembler, and a
> Windows based simulator. The simulator takes assembled programs (in
> my system called *.OBJ) and the original source. You can then step
> through the instructions, and follow them through the text file on
> the PC.
> I am presently trying to execute various utility programs, sent to me
> by a Belgion ex-Philips employee, who did a lot of work on the P800
series.
> I myself worked with the P800 series,
disguised as the PTS6800 series
> for
> 4-5 years full time.
> The PTS 6800 series was used extensively in banks, mainly in
> Scandinavia, Greece, Barclay SouthAfrica, Philippines. In Sweden also
> in the airline industry. In Denmark it was used mainly by local
> authorities, PTT, Railway (ticket printing), and some other
> small-time projects. In one of the project it was connected to an
> ATM (fun
project).
>> I know of one collector in the Netherlands (Camiel), and some guys
>> who have no hardware but a lot of knowledge /Nico
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: tony duell
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 7:31 AM
>> Subject: RE: out-of-mainstream minis
>>
>>
>> Not all minis came from the States :-)
>>
>> One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800
>> series.
>> It's
>> a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program counter
>> and 15
>> is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and
>> separate
>> I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O). There were several
>> models
>> with various implementations of the architecture, including
>>
>> P850 (TTL, hardwired not microcoded)
>>
>> P855, P852, P856, P857, P860 (TTL, microcoded)
>>
>> P851 (Custom bitslice ICs, microcoded)
>>
>> P854 (AM2900 bitslice, microcoded)
>>
>> P853 I think (Single chip)
>>
>> No, I don't have all of those...
>>
>> -tony
>> =
>>
>
7:51 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
Yes indeed "danger wears a coat of many colours"
Rod
On 21/08/2015 15:45, Toby Thain wrote:
On 2015-08-21 10:30 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Hi
Yes I know, but its not the norm to link from an English language email
to a site in another language with no warning.
I suppose they think everybody speaks Danish.
You could be heading into some real dark places without knowing. Rule
16b never logon to a site you cant read.
No "darker" than any English language site.
--Toby
Rod
On 21/08/2015 13:35, Dave G4UGM wrote:
Google Translate does a reasonable job...
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=da&tl=en&js=y&prev=_…
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod
Smallwood
Sent: 21 August 2015 11:41
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: out-of-mainstream minis
I'm sure its very intersting.
The website is designed for domestic consumption only as its all in
Danish.
Rod
On 21/08/2015 11:27, Ian S. King wrote:
> I had the privilege of visiting what Nico calls a 'museum-to-be'
> yesterday evening, and it is far more than most of what I've seen!
> They have a very substantial collection of all sorts of systems,
> peripherals and documentation, including a GIER from ca. 1962 that I
> saw
(and heard) run.
> As a debugging/operations aid, they had attached the overflow bit
> to a
> speaker so it could generate 1-bit sound - one demo they gave me
> was a
> program to calculate e that played a sound for each iteration so you
> could hear the steady progress. But of course if there is a sound
> output, no one can avoid playing with it. There were numerous pieces
> of computationally generated music composed for the machine (on paper
> tape), but also a program for playing a recorded, real-life sound in
> 1-bit
audio!
> The collection includes numerous other computers including pretty
> much
> the entire RC line, as well as pre-computer tabulators, keypunches,
> paper handling machine and the like. The artifacts are well-ordered
> and in large part well labeled for even the uninitiated visitor.
>
> Everything is laid out quite thoughtfully, with wide aisles, in a
> large, well-lit basement. There are interpretive displays here and
> there, as well as a small but appealing lecture/display area.
>
> The datamuseum.dk collection represents 25 years of accumulation, I
> was told. But more importantly, I think their work demonstrates a
> very well-considered approach for presenting the history of the
> collection's machines to visitors.
>
> My hosts were also warm and wonderful people who clearly love what
> they do and enjoy sharing it. They made me feel among friends, if
> not
> family. :-)
>
>
> Thanks, Finn and everyone else (sorry, I'm bad with names), for
> sharing your time and your passion with me! -- Ian
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Nico de Jong <nico at farumdata.dk>
> wrote:
>
>> I share your favourite(s). In the danish IT-museum-to-be (
>> www.datamuseum.dk) we have two P857-based systems running. We
have
>> lots of spare parts and nearly all documentation, so if you need
>> something, you are welcome to ask.
>> I'm presently building a "table top" version of a system with the
>> P857 CPU, 35cm H x 60 deep x 19" wide, with a dual 8" floppy drive,
>> and a 80486 PC for program loading etc.
>> The system is built into a P859 box. The P859 CPU is special, as it
>> has a
>> V24 connection that goes to a LED display with push buttons. Very
>> nice indeed.
>> For that system, I have developped a Windows based Assembler, and a
>> Windows based simulator. The simulator takes assembled programs (in
>> my system called *.OBJ) and the original source. You can then step
>> through the instructions, and follow them through the text file on
>> the PC.
>> I am presently trying to execute various utility programs, sent
>> to me
>> by a Belgion ex-Philips employee, who did a lot of work on the P800
series.
>> I myself worked with the P800 series, disguised as the PTS6800
>> series
>> for
>> 4-5 years full time.
>> The PTS 6800 series was used extensively in banks, mainly in
>> Scandinavia, Greece, Barclay SouthAfrica, Philippines. In Sweden
>> also
>> in the airline industry. In Denmark it was used mainly by local
>> authorities, PTT, Railway (ticket printing), and some other
>> small-time projects. In one of the project it was connected to an
>> ATM (fun
project).
>> I know of one collector in the Netherlands (Camiel), and some guys
>> who have no hardware but a lot of knowledge /Nico
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: tony duell
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 7:31 AM
>> Subject: RE: out-of-mainstream minis
>>
>>
>> Not all minis came from the States :-)
>>
>> One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800
>> series.
>> It's
>> a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program counter
>> and 15
>> is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and
>> separate
>> I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O). There were several
>> models
>> with various implementations of the architecture, including
>>
>> P850 (TTL, hardwired not microcoded)
>>
>> P855, P852, P856, P857, P860 (TTL, microcoded)
>>
>> P851 (Custom bitslice ICs, microcoded)
>>
>> P854 (AM2900 bitslice, microcoded)
>>
>> P853 I think (Single chip)
>>
>> No, I don't have all of those...
>>
>> -tony
>> =
>>
>
11:09 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
My email wasn't 'go look at this site', it was 'I visited these nice
people' with the link as a courtesy. What 'norm'?
On Aug 21, 2015 4:51 PM, "Rod Smallwood" <rodsmallwood52 at
btinternet.com>
wrote:
Yes indeed "danger wears a coat of many
colours"
Rod
On 21/08/2015 15:45, Toby Thain wrote:
On 2015-08-21 10:30 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Hi
Yes I know, but its not the norm to link from an English language email
to a site in another language with no warning.
I suppose they think everybody speaks Danish.
You could be heading into some real dark places without knowing. Rule
16b never logon to a site you cant read.
No "darker" than any English language site.
--Toby
Rod
On 21/08/2015 13:35, Dave G4UGM wrote:
Google Translate does a reasonable job...
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=da&tl=en&js=y&prev=_…
Dave
-----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod
> Smallwood
> Sent: 21 August 2015 11:41
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: out-of-mainstream minis
>
> I'm sure its very intersting.
> The website is designed for domestic consumption only as its all in
> Danish.
>
> Rod
>
>
> On 21/08/2015 11:27, Ian S. King wrote:
>
>> I had the privilege of visiting what Nico calls a 'museum-to-be'
>> yesterday evening, and it is far more than most of what I've seen!
>> They have a very substantial collection of all sorts of systems,
>> peripherals and documentation, including a GIER from ca. 1962 that I
>> saw
>>
> (and heard) run.
>
>> As a debugging/operations aid, they had attached the overflow bit to a
>> speaker so it could generate 1-bit sound - one demo they gave me was a
>> program to calculate e that played a sound for each iteration so you
>> could hear the steady progress. But of course if there is a sound
>> output, no one can avoid playing with it. There were numerous pieces
>> of computationally generated music composed for the machine (on paper
>> tape), but also a program for playing a recorded, real-life sound in
>> 1-bit
>>
> audio!
>
>> The collection includes numerous other computers including pretty much
>> the entire RC line, as well as pre-computer tabulators, keypunches,
>> paper handling machine and the like. The artifacts are well-ordered
>> and in large part well labeled for even the uninitiated visitor.
>>
>> Everything is laid out quite thoughtfully, with wide aisles, in a
>> large, well-lit basement. There are interpretive displays here and
>> there, as well as a small but appealing lecture/display area.
>>
>> The datamuseum.dk collection represents 25 years of accumulation, I
>> was told. But more importantly, I think their work demonstrates a
>> very well-considered approach for presenting the history of the
>> collection's machines to visitors.
>>
>> My hosts were also warm and wonderful people who clearly love what
>> they do and enjoy sharing it. They made me feel among friends, if not
>> family. :-)
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Finn and everyone else (sorry, I'm bad with names), for
>> sharing your time and your passion with me! -- Ian
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Nico de Jong <nico at farumdata.dk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I share your favourite(s). In the danish IT-museum-to-be (
>>> www.datamuseum.dk) we have two P857-based systems running. We
>>>
>> have
>
>> lots of spare parts and nearly all documentation, so if you need
>>> something, you are welcome to ask.
>>> I'm presently building a "table top" version of a system with
the
>>> P857 CPU, 35cm H x 60 deep x 19" wide, with a dual 8" floppy
drive,
>>> and a 80486 PC for program loading etc.
>>> The system is built into a P859 box. The P859 CPU is special, as it
>>> has a
>>> V24 connection that goes to a LED display with push buttons. Very
>>> nice indeed.
>>> For that system, I have developped a Windows based Assembler, and a
>>> Windows based simulator. The simulator takes assembled programs (in
>>> my system called *.OBJ) and the original source. You can then step
>>> through the instructions, and follow them through the text file on
>>> the PC.
>>> I am presently trying to execute various utility programs, sent to me
>>> by a Belgion ex-Philips employee, who did a lot of work on the P800
>>>
>> series.
>
>> I myself worked with the P800 series, disguised as the PTS6800 series
>>> for
>>> 4-5 years full time.
>>> The PTS 6800 series was used extensively in banks, mainly in
>>> Scandinavia, Greece, Barclay SouthAfrica, Philippines. In Sweden also
>>> in the airline industry. In Denmark it was used mainly by local
>>> authorities, PTT, Railway (ticket printing), and some other
>>> small-time projects. In one of the project it was connected to an
>>> ATM (fun
>>>
>> project).
>
>> I know of one collector in the Netherlands (Camiel), and some guys
>>> who have no hardware but a lot of knowledge /Nico
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: tony duell
>>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 7:31 AM
>>> Subject: RE: out-of-mainstream minis
>>>
>>>
>>> Not all minis came from the States :-)
>>>
>>> One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800
>>> series.
>>> It's
>>> a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program counter
>>> and 15
>>> is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and
>>> separate
>>> I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O). There were several
>>> models
>>> with various implementations of the architecture, including
>>>
>>> P850 (TTL, hardwired not microcoded)
>>>
>>> P855, P852, P856, P857, P860 (TTL, microcoded)
>>>
>>> P851 (Custom bitslice ICs, microcoded)
>>>
>>> P854 (AM2900 bitslice, microcoded)
>>>
>>> P853 I think (Single chip)
>>>
>>> No, I don't have all of those...
>>>
>>> -tony
>>> =
>>>
>>>
>>
3:09 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
I'm sure they are very nice and totally harmless.
All that was required was ("in Danish") after the link.
I must say I could not make any sense of the system models they seem to
be refering to.
Was there a home grown system of some sort.? Kinda a Dansk Data
On 21/08/2015 19:09, Ian S. King wrote:
My email wasn't 'go look at this site', it
was 'I visited these nice
people' with the link as a courtesy. What 'norm'?
On Aug 21, 2015 4:51 PM, "Rod Smallwood" <rodsmallwood52 at
btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Yes indeed "danger wears a coat of many colours"
>
> Rod
>
>
> On 21/08/2015 15:45, Toby Thain wrote:
>
>> On 2015-08-21 10:30 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Yes I know, but its not the norm to link from an English language email
>>> to a site in another language with no warning.
>>> I suppose they think everybody speaks Danish.
>>>
>>> You could be heading into some real dark places without knowing. RuleI'm
s
>>>
>> No "darker" than any English language site.
>>
>>
>> --Toby
>>
>>
>>
>>> Rod
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21/08/2015 13:35, Dave G4UGM wrote:
>>>
>>>> Google Translate does a reasonable job...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=da&tl=en&js=y&prev=_…
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
Rod
>>>>> Smallwood
>>>>> Sent: 21 August 2015 11:41
>>>>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>>>>> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: out-of-mainstream minis
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure its very intersting.
>>>>> The website is designed for domestic consumption only as its all in
>>>>> Danish.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rod
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 21/08/2015 11:27, Ian S. King wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I had the privilege of visiting what Nico calls a
'museum-to-be'
>>>>>> yesterday evening, and it is far more than most of what I've
seen!
>>>>>> They have a very substantial collection of all sorts of systems,
>>>>>> peripherals and documentation, including a GIER from ca. 1962
that I
>>>>>> saw
>>>>>>
>>>>> (and heard) run.
>>>>>
>>>>>> As a debugging/operations aid, they had attached the overflow bit
to a
>>>>>> speaker so it could generate 1-bit sound - one demo they gave me
was a
>>>>>> program to calculate e that played a sound for each iteration so
you
>>>>>> could hear the steady progress. But of course if there is a
sound
>>>>>> output, no one can avoid playing with it. There were numerous
pieces
>>>>>> of computationally generated music composed for the machine (on
paper
>>>>>> tape), but also a program for playing a recorded, real-life sound
in
>>>>>> 1-bit
>>>>>>
>>>>> audio!
>>>>>
>>>>>> The collection includes numerous other computers including pretty
much
>>>>>> the entire RC line, as well as pre-computer tabulators,
keypunches,
>>>>>> paper handling machine and the like. The artifacts are
well-ordered
>>>>>> and in large part well labeled for even the uninitiated visitor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything is laid out quite thoughtfully, with wide aisles, in
a
>>>>>> large, well-lit basement. There are interpretive displays here
and
>>>>>> there, as well as a small but appealing lecture/display area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The datamuseum.dk collection represents 25 years of accumulation,
I
>>>>>> was told. But more importantly, I think their work demonstrates
a
>>>>>> very well-considered approach for presenting the history of the
>>>>>> collection's machines to visitors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My hosts were also warm and wonderful people who clearly love
what
>>>>>> they do and enjoy sharing it. They made me feel among friends,
if not
>>>>>> family. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Finn and everyone else (sorry, I'm bad with names),
for
>>>>>> sharing your time and your passion with me! -- Ian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Nico de Jong <nico at
farumdata.dk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I share your favourite(s). In the danish IT-museum-to-be (
>>>>>>> www.datamuseum.dk) we have two P857-based systems running.
We
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> lots of spare parts and nearly all documentation, so if you need
>>>>>>> something, you are welcome to ask.
>>>>>>> I'm presently building a "table top" version of
a system with the
>>>>>>> P857 CPU, 35cm H x 60 deep x 19" wide, with a dual
8" floppy drive,
>>>>>>> and a 80486 PC for program loading etc.
>>>>>>> The system is built into a P859 box. The P859 CPU is special,
as it
>>>>>>> has a
>>>>>>> V24 connection that goes to a LED display with push buttons.
Very
>>>>>>> nice indeed.
>>>>>>> For that system, I have developped a Windows based Assembler,
and a
>>>>>>> Windows based simulator. The simulator takes assembled
programs (in
>>>>>>> my system called *.OBJ) and the original source. You can then
step
>>>>>>> through the instructions, and follow them through the text
file on
>>>>>>> the PC.
>>>>>>> I am presently trying to execute various utility programs,
sent to me
>>>>>>> by a Belgion ex-Philips employee, who did a lot of work on
the P800
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> series.
>>>>>> I myself worked with the P800 series, disguised as the PTS6800
series
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> 4-5 years full time.
>>>>>>> The PTS 6800 series was used extensively in banks, mainly in
>>>>>>> Scandinavia, Greece, Barclay SouthAfrica, Philippines. In
Sweden also
>>>>>>> in the airline industry. In Denmark it was used mainly by
local
>>>>>>> authorities, PTT, Railway (ticket printing), and some other
>>>>>>> small-time projects. In one of the project it was connected
to an
>>>>>>> ATM (fun
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> project).
>>>>>> I know of one collector in the Netherlands (Camiel), and some
guys
>>>>>>> who have no hardware but a lot of knowledge /Nico
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: tony duell
>>>>>>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 7:31 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: out-of-mainstream minis
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not all minis came from the States :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the
Philips P800
>>>>>>> series.
>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>> a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program
counter
>>>>>>> and 15
>>>>>>> is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose)
and
>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>> I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O). There were
several
>>>>>>> models
>>>>>>> with various implementations of the architecture,
including
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P850 (TTL, hardwired not microcoded)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P855, P852, P856, P857, P860 (TTL, microcoded)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P851 (Custom bitslice ICs, microcoded)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P854 (AM2900 bitslice, microcoded)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P853 I think (Single chip)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I don't have all of those...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -tony
>>>>>>> =
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
3:19 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Ian S. King <isking at uw.edu> wrote:
The datamuseum.dk collection represents 25 years of
accumulation, I was
told. But more importantly, I think their work demonstrates a very
well-considered approach for presenting the history of the collection's
machines to visitors.
Thanks to the people who reminded me of this place; I had looked
online at their collection some time back; but I revisited it again
and GOOG translate revealed a previously unnoticed artifact of
interest.
One of the museum people is very helpfully tracking down more
information for me.
2 Jul
2 Jul
6:47 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
2015-07-02 7:31 GMT+02:00 tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>:
Not all minis came from the States :-)
That's right. There were one odd swedish mini as well.
Datasaab manufactured a line of minis called D5 in the early seventies. The
D5/10, D5/20 and D5/30. 16 bits.
They were used among others in banks for controlling terminals.
The D5/20 apparently had 64 by 24 bit microcode, used serial arithmetic and
the memory cycle was 1.33 us
http://www.datasaab.se/Aktuellt/IT_ceum/D520_FUB.pdf (in Swedish)
http://www.datasaab.se/Bildarkiv/D530/d530_eng.htm
http://www.datasaab.se/Bildarkiv/NTP/ntp_eng.htm
One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800 series.
It's
a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program counter and 15
is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and separate
I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O). There were several models
with various implementations of the architecture, including
P850 (TTL, hardwired not microcoded)
P855, P852, P856, P857, P860 (TTL, microcoded)
P851 (Custom bitslice ICs, microcoded)
P854 (AM2900 bitslice, microcoded)
P853 I think (Single chip)
No, I don't have all of those...
-tony
12:59 p.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On 2015-07-02 15:47, Mattis Lind wrote:
2015-07-02 7:31 GMT+02:00 tony duell <ard at
p850ug1.demon.co.uk>:
There is also the Swedish Ericsson UAC1610 and its successor the APN586,
16-bit computers used in telephone exchanges, management systems for
telephone exchanges and also in railway interlockings. There are about
140 of these interlockings in use in Sweden at the moment; due to
problems with obtaining some components the manufacturer does not
provide spare parts any longer so they are being replaced over a period
of some 20 years or so. I have tried to find documentation on the
Internet but it seems extremely hard to find, if it exists at all
outside of the manufacturer.
/Jonas
Not all minis came from the States :-)
That's right. There were one odd swedish mini as well.
Datasaab manufactured a line of minis called D5 in the early seventies. The
D5/10, D5/20 and D5/30. 16 bits.
They were used among others in banks for controlling terminals.
The D5/20 apparently had 64 by 24 bit microcode, used serial arithmetic and
the memory cycle was 1.33 us
http://www.datasaab.se/Aktuellt/IT_ceum/D520_FUB.pdf (in Swedish)
http://www.datasaab.se/Bildarkiv/D530/d530_eng.htm
http://www.datasaab.se/Bildarkiv/NTP/ntp_eng.htm
7:02 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On Jul 2, 2015, at 1:31 AM, tony duell <ard at
p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Not all minis came from the States :-)
One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800 series. It's
a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the program counter and 15
is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and separate
I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O).
Another Philips machine, probably still more obscure, is the PR8000. I?ve been looking
for documentation about it, with no luck whatsoever. I wrote up a partial description,
from memory and from looking at some old listings. It?s a 24 bit machine, with 8 sets of
8 registers (memory mapped like the PDP-10). For each interrupt level there?s a set of
registers, so at interrupt time no register saving is needed. Neat.
paul
7:21 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
2015-07-02 16:02 GMT+02:00 Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>:
That remind me of the the Norsk Data ND-10 (Maybe the ND-1 and ND-100 is
the same in this aspect) which is a 16 bit machine with 16 different
interrupt levels. Each interrupt level has its own set of registers. On top
of that it also have a memory protection scheme with four different
protection levels.
Nord-10/S front panel:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/Nord10.png
/Mattis
On Jul 2, 2015, at 1:31 AM, tony duell <ard at
p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Not all minis came from the States :-)
One of my favourite non-mainstream families is the Philips P800 series.
It's
a 16 bit machine with 16 registers (0 is the
program counter and 15
is the stack pointer, rest are mostly general purpose) and separate
I/O instructions (not memory-mapped I/O).
Another Philips machine, probably still more obscure, is the PR8000. I?ve
been looking for documentation about it, with no luck whatsoever. I wrote
up a partial description, from memory and from looking at some old
listings. It?s a 24 bit machine, with 8 sets of 8 registers (memory mapped
like the PDP-10). For each interrupt level there?s a set of registers, so
at interrupt time no register saving is needed. Neat.
paul
4 Jul
4 Jul
2:18 a.m.
New subject: out-of-mainstream minis
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Mattis Lind <mattislind at gmail.com> wrote:
That remind me of the the Norsk Data ND-10 (Maybe the ND-1 and ND-100 is
the same in this aspect) which is a 16 bit machine with 16 different
interrupt levels. Each interrupt level has its own set of registers. On top
of that it also have a memory protection scheme with four different
protection levels.
The ND-100 has the same interrupt set up. Don't know about the ND-1.
--
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen
3181
days inactive
3234
days old
82 comments
36 participants
participants (36)
-
arcarlini＠iee.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
blstuart＠bellsouth.net -
bqt＠update.uu.se -
captainkirk359＠gmail.com -
cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
isking＠uw.edu -
jonas＠otter.se -
jos.dreesen＠bluewin.ch -
jsw＠ieee.org -
linimon＠lonesome.com -
lyokoboy0＠gmail.com -
mattislind＠gmail.com -
mspproductions＠gmail.com -
nf6x＠nf6x.net -
nico＠farumdata.dk -
nw＠retroComputingTasmania.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com -
scaron＠umich.edu -
tingox＠gmail.com -
tmfdmike＠gmail.com -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au -
useddec＠gmail.com -
v.slyngstad＠frontier.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com