- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by vintagecoder＠aol.com

If you look at the November, 1972 paper Wirth put out called "The Programming Language Pascal (Revised Report) you will find both "Pascal" and "PASCAL" in the text. The canonical "PASCAL User Manual and Report" (Springer-Verlag, 1974) uses all caps in the title and then in a few places such as "PASCAL 6000". Just because it's a proper name doesn't mean it's incorrect to capitalize it. After all, wasn't Blaise Pascal a Frenchman, and don't the French capitalize last names to this very day? ;-) ------Original Message------ From: Mouse Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org To: cctalk at classiccmp.org ReplyTo: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Right toolf for the job Sent: 5 Jan 2012 15:00 > they tell me it's not "FORTRAN" it's "Fortran" when I know damn well > it's an acronym! Not in the usual sense of `acronym', though. But... > PASCAL as delivered was pretty unusable. ...if you're going to draw the distinction between "Fortran" and "FORTRAN", you might at least get Pascal's name right. :) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

14 years, 6 months

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Email address for Hans Pufal of ACONIT?

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

Can someone send me the email address for Hans Pufal of ACONIT? I would like to talk to him about the PDP-9 project at the RICM. -- Michael Thompson

14 years, 6 months

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Cromemco FDC

by james＠attfield.co.uk

Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:02:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jerry Wright <g-wright at att.net> Subject: Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC >> Josh, I would love to get your 64FDC for my Cromemco 68020 machine that >> is missing one. I have 16 FDC and other Croemeco Z-80 Boards to go along >> with it. > Which model 68020 Cromemco is it? I might be able to find a spare 64FDC... > mike Long shot, but if you have another or Josh doesn't take it I'd love to give it a home. I have a complete Cromemco board set here in an IMS-5000 chassis and a pair of TM848's but have consistently failed to get the 16-FDC to talk to them reliably. I'd dearly love to get a 64-FDC for it to go with the ZPU and/or an STD hard disk controller (or an IMI drive to go with the WDI-II controller I have). Anyone? FYI the ROM on the 'FDC flips in and out the entire top 32K bank. During boot RDOS ensures that the top 32K flips in and RDOS then flips out giving a clean 64K map. All done through port 40H. Jim

14 years, 6 months

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Right toolf for the job (Was: teaching programming to kids)

by jonas＠otter.se

>> > Never used Fortran. >> Think of it as an old-style version of BASIC. WRITE is like >> PRINTUSING, >> with FORMAT being where you specify the print pattern. Any variable >> whose >> name starts with the letters I J K L M or N (alphabetic letters >> between I >> and N (which is the start of "INteger")) is assumed to be an int, >> unless >> you tell it otherwise. Many brands of it require giving a line >> number to >> every line. > > Oops! > For FORTRAN, that should read, "like some brands of BASIC, you can > skip > assigning line numbers to lines that aren't explicitly referenced." > Strictly speaking, "line numbers" in FORTRAN are actually labels. They do not have anything to do with line numbering and IIRC they do not have to appear in an ascending sequence either, they can be assigned randomly and with arbitrary gaps in the sequence. Assigning labels ("line numbers") to not explicitly referenced lines in FORTRAN would be like giving every line a label in assembler, completely meaningless clutter. /Jonas

14 years, 6 months

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server outage

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

My apologies... the classiccmp server crashed, and it took some real doing to get it functional again. It was not a hardware issue, it was an issue with both Xen and FreeNAS (mostly Xen as to the delay in getting it back up). I'm embarrassed to admit, but I finally had to open up a per-incident support case with Citrix to get the thing resolved. On the bright side, there are backups (daily) of mysql, the website content directories, and the mailman archive, so no data was ever at risk. However, since those aren't full system backups - recovery from them would have been a bit time-consuming but certainly doable with no data loss. Yes, I'm setting up monthly snapshots (or vm exports) shortly just in case it happens again. Best, J

14 years, 6 months

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OpenFirmware/Fcode - Re: teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

ROFL...installed in hundreds of thousands, if not milliins of machines running all over the world. Nearly all PPC-based Macs, all Suns (including current ones I think) past the Sun4c family, all reasonably modern RS6000s, what else...it was an IEEE standard for a long time, #1275. -Dave Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: >On 4 Jan 2012 at 20:43, Toby Thain wrote: > >> That was implemented as http://www.openfirmware.org/ (found in Suns, >> Macs, etc). >> >> The format is Fcode; it's actually a brilliant idea that of course was >> of more pressing importance when the hardware market was actually >> heterogeneous. > >Finding anything about this is a little difficult--lots of 404s, etc. >when trying to search. > >What was the last product that used Open Firmware? Most of this >stuff seems to be from the mid '90s. > >--Chuck >

14 years, 6 months

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Cromemco FDC (was: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC)

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 13:24:36 -0800 From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at mail.msu.edu> Subject: Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC On 12/31/2011 12:15 PM, MikeS wrote: > > ----- Reply: > >> Just curious: >> Does your memory configuration support swapping out the RDOS boot/monitor >> ROM? > Not at the moment, I haven't quite worked out if this can be made to work > properly with non-Cromemco memory boards. The 64FDC manual suggests > "Set[ting] the switches on the RAM board(s) so that memory from 8000h to > FFFFh is disabled..." which implies that the boards must support some way > of re-enabling the memory via software (for when the FDC's ROM is disabled > via a write to port 40h). > I'm wondering if this board isn't really optimal for this setup -- it > seems very geared toward having a complete Cromemco setup, which I do not > have. ---------------- I don't see why it would be a problem; the RDOS boot/monitor ROM lives at C000 so it should work with 48K RAM even if you don't disable it; ISTR that some folks simply connected the ROM chip select to the Phantom line if they had non-bankable memory and wanted to switch it in and out. And of course the ROM can be completely disabled as well. It controls up to four total 5.25 and/or 8" drives with write precomp, has an RS-232 console port and a pretty good monitor with the usual memory and disk manipulation, some basic diagnostics, etc.; not a bad card IMO. And it's fairly well documented. ---------------- > For right now, I was just planning on assembling a raw binary image and > using a PC (with a bit of hacked together software) to push the image into > the IMSAI's memory via the 64FDC's serial port, using the onboard monitor > commands. Just for fun :). > If you know of a source for images of these third-party CP/Ms, let me > know. Dave Dunfield's site has a CP/M for the 16FDC, which as far as I > can tell (from a cursory glance at the manuals) has identical I/O port > behavior to the 64FDC so I may just be able to use that, assuming I can > write the 8" image to a 5.25" floppy. ---------------- As a matter of fact Dave also has a utility for the FDC that actually lets you create a bootable disk over the serial port. No big difference between the 16FDC and the 64 FDC; mostly just stuff added for later models of 8" drives (Tandon 848) and mods for the tape drives. mike

14 years, 6 months

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OpenFirmware/Fcode - Re: teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

I agree that it's a big loss, made even worse by some platforms moving to EFI, which is a joke in comparison. Like so many other inferior technologies, EFI was a solution in search of a problem, and some clueless sod in management somewhere decided to force it into some product lines, so now we have to put up with it when we've worked with much better. -Dave David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote: >On Jan 4, 2012, at 21:32, "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: > >> >> What was the last product that used Open Firmware? Most of this >> stuff seems to be from the mid '90s. > >Probably the last PowerPC Macs, or the OLPC, or a few embedded things... Sadly, OF seems to have fallen out of favor, which I think is a real loss. > >- Dave

14 years, 6 months

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cctech Digest, Vol 101, Issue 8

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> From:?Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date:?Wed, 4 Jan 2012 16:28:13 -0500 > Subject:?Re: The PDP-8/L at the RICM is running! > On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 3:14 AM, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote: > Don't know if it's similar to what you've seen or not, but from my > experience testing M-series modules for the -8/L and -8/i, I've found > more dead 7474s and 7440s than any other type of chip. That is what we found from our recent PDP-8/L revival. We also found quite a few failed 7400, 7410, 7450/7460, I bought a HP 10529A Logic Comparator that sounds like the chip test device that you made. -- Michael Thompson

14 years, 6 months

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TV -> D-Sub converter possible?

by vintagecoder＠aol.com

I have an old COCO II somewhere but I don't have a television. What are you guys who have similar old systems doing for a display? Is there a device to convert the TV out from those computers to D-Sub or dare to dream, DVI? What do you call such a converter? Thanks.

14 years, 6 months

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Imperative thought patterns - Re: teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by dm561＠torfree.net

----- Original Message: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 20:11:52 +0000 From: Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com> To: "cctalk at classiccmp.org" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: Imperative thought patterns - Re: teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC From: MikeS Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 7:23 AM >> I think many if not most of the people on here discovered that they >> enjoyed and had a gift for programming by playing with BASIC on their C64 >> or equivalent [snip] > I think that many if not most of the people on here learned to program on > something other than BASIC. I, for example, learned FORTRAN IV on an IBM > 1401 6 years before the MITS Altair 8800 was introduced to the world. > I did personally not encounter BASIC until I was in grad school, on an IBM > 370/168 running Wylbur for interactive computing. I was much more taken > with the DEC-20. -------Reply: You're probably right about this particular group where most people are old enough to wax nostalgic about the DECs of their distant youth and many are presumably retired as well since they have enough spare time to waste on discussions like this one... ;-) I personally started on an IBM 650 and then the very first Burroughs B260 installed in Canada, and didn't encounter BASIC either until I bought one of the first PETs some 13 years or so later. But I suspect many of the programmers actually writing code in the 'real' world today are somewhat younger than 45 or 50, and did indeed start on an 8-bitter of the 70's and 80's when the whole field exploded. m

14 years, 6 months

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AT & T 7300 docs (update)

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

I'll have to rebox them as smaller parcels. I can't lift anything near that right now (or anytime soon). If you're still interested (those that previously responded), let me know. Media rate from 08005. Figure 2-3 boxes @ 25 or 15 lbs. each. If that suits you, they're yours. It'll probably take me another week or a bit more to get all that done though. I'll need a check for shippage. If you send me more (owing to my possibly exuberant estimates), I'll refund the difference, so no need to ruffle your punch cards. Let me know.

14 years, 6 months

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Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by derschjo＠mail.msu.edu

Anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably featured 8080 or Z80 BASIC? What I've got running at the moment is a mongrel IMSAI 8080 with a Z80, 48K of working memory and a serial port. My eventual goal is to get CP/M running on it (I have a Cromemco 64FDC -- anyone know of either an official CP/M for this or know of a BIOS that supports this controller before I start writing my own?) but for the time being I thought it would be fun to get a BASIC running on it. The catch is I need something I can adapt to the serial I/O on the Cromemco controller -- so something that I can pretty easily modify is of course preferable. (I'm not opposed to manually hacking up a binary but having an official source listing to start with would save time :)) I started looking at the IMSAI 8K basic listing but there's a fair amount of hardware-specific I/O code in it scattered throughout so I'm not thrilled about modifying it... (and the only source listing I can find is in a PDF, which doesn't help any...) Thanks, Josh

14 years, 6 months

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Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

> One of the things that frustrates me with C21 OSs and languages is > that the graphics facilities of machines are locked away behind the > high walls of libraries and APIs designed for professional developers > - which are simply too hard for an interested amateur such as myself. Are you aware of FreeBASIC (the one with the nice horsy logo) and had a look whether that floats your boat? This is an extendable freeware BASIC programming environment for Windoze (I dunno if it's available for other platforms too, I don't care at the moment) which can be enabled to do sound, Windows GUI widgets, networking primitives and the like via downloadable modules/libraries, which should be well documented and examples provided. I located and installed it a few years ago as a win- and TCP-enabled replacement for Turbo BASIC, both for my usual day-to-day diddling and intending to program a control application/"driver" for some not-quite-xterm, but couldn't scrounge up the spare time for more than a very cursory examination 'til now. Arno Kletzander ...sent from my HTC Magician PDA

14 years, 6 months

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Guy claims to have re-badged VIC-1001

by christian_liendo＠yahoo.com

Ebay Item 320822744546 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320822744546 His title "VERY RARE: This Commodore VIC-20 is a Re-badged VIC-1001. Made In Japan." Am I crazy or wasn't all the VICs made in Japan??

14 years, 6 months

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22disk & CP/M's diskettes

by elazzerini＠interfree.it

Hi all, after i finally resurrected my BIGBOARD and I made ??the boot of the operating system CP/M, are struggling with reading old diskettes. Before i comes out completely my mind in the counting of all parameters to pass to the program 22disk, someone knows a comprehensive guide on how to decode the disc formats? I am very close to the identification of parameters, but frankly it is extremely stressful. I'll try to list where I am keeping in mind that the format Bigboard 1 has 77 tracks x 26 sectors / track each with 128byte single-density single-sided. 1) almost every disk CP/M in the first 2 tracks the format is 77 tracks x 26 sectors / track each from 128byte. 2) then starts the data portion that would be double-sided and i need to remove from this portion the sectors used for the FAT whose number is to be calculated as a function of the total number of sectors to be managed; 3) i'm able to reconstruct the sequence of sectors on the disk for the first 2 tracks with the CP/M and for the remain data area; 4) then takes over a parameter which is the allocation unit size that means how fields are grouped together to determine the parameters DRM 5) the allocation unit size determines all the other parameters BSH, BLM, DSM 6) Finally, AL0 and AL0 that the 22disk's document did not clarify well to me. SO: that it is a bit hard for me... Is out there anyone who can help me? Excuse for my poor english. Enrico -Pisa - Italy

14 years, 6 months

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Oscilloscope vector display driver...

by rmu_scada＠yahoo.com

http://www.jmargolin.com/vgens/vgens.htm

14 years, 6 months

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teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by vintagecoder＠aol.com

Depends who you ask. I was told by a guy with 3 years of Java programming under his belt that Java is much more powerful than assembler, after all, Java is object oriented! ;-) Anyway this ought to be an interesting subthread. I'll make the popcorn! ------Original Message------ From: Chuck Guzis Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ReplyTo: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC Sent: 3 Jan 2012 09:53 On 3 Jan 2012 at 2:28, Richard wrote: > It's not really a fair comparison as we expect a "modern" language to > do much more than FORTRAN 66. Do what, exactly? Are you saying that simple languages can't "do" what more complicated ones do? Does the simplest---machine code, do less than, any HLL, modern or ancient? Is C less capable than Python? --Chuck

14 years, 6 months

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Cromemco FDC (was: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC)

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:02:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jerry Wright <g-wright at att.net> Subject: Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC > Josh, I would love to get your 64FDC for my Cromemco 68020 machine that > is missing one. I have 16 FDC and other Croemeco Z-80 Boards to go along > with it. Which model 68020 Cromemco is it? I might be able to find a spare 64FDC... mike

14 years, 6 months

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Connect Shugart SA850 to PC

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello. I have a Shugart SA850 I would connect to a PC, to read/write old diskettes using linux. I would need a suggestion on how to do connections and specially how to set the jumpers on the driver. Any advice? Andrea

14 years, 6 months

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Imperative thought patterns - Re: teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by dm561＠torfree.net

----- Original Message: Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 08:33:02 -0500 From: Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> Subject: Imperative thought patterns - Re: teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC > On 1/2/12 8:22 PM, "Josh Dersch"<derschjo at mail.msu.edu> wrote: >>>> Djikstra said, "It is virtually impossible to teach good programming >>>> prctices to students with a prior exposure to BASIC; they are mentally >>>> mutilated beyond any hope of regeneration." >>> >>> He had that lovely combination of clear sight and fearless expression. >> >> If only that particular expression of his was even remotely true :). >> >> - Josh > Most long-time imperative programmers who seriously studies The Structure > and Interpretation of Computer Programs will come face to face with the > essential truth of Dijkstra's remark. The consequent un-learning is just > as valuable as the learning... --T ----- Reply: I don't think Josh was questioning whether Dijkstra said it, but whether it's actually *true*; since you (Toby) say elsewhere that "I too learned with assembler, BASIC, Pascal, C, and so on", then you must also be "mentally mutilated beyond any hope of regeneration". That would of course explain a lot... ;-) I think many if not most of the people on here discovered that they enjoyed and had a gift for programming by playing with BASIC on their C64 or equivalent and, far from being "mentally mutilated", have gone on to be quite competent programmers and/or analysts; I also suspect that had that C64 been equipped with a language that discouraged 'playing' and enforced rigid rules of structure etc., many of those folks would today be in a different and perhaps less satisfying career. m

14 years, 6 months

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Scheme implementation [was RE: teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC]

by RichA＠vulcan.com

From: ben Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 7:27 AM > On 1/3/2012 7:03 AM, Toby Thain wrote: >> Yeah? Scheme has come in at around forty. And you don't get much more >> modern than that. > I thought scheme was written in C. SCHEME[1] was written in MACLISP under the ITS operating system running on a PDP-10. Who says Lisp isn't good for writing interesting software? ;-> [1] The name was really "Schemer", a follow-on to Conniver which was a response to Planner. Program names are represented in 6-bit packed 6 per word in ITS. Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer Vulcan, Inc. 505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900 Seattle, WA 98104 mailto:RichA at vulcan.com mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

14 years, 6 months

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teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by julianskidmore＠yahoo.com

Hi folks, > I'm writing a small Forth engine right now >>While BASIC is good for a starting language it is not the first >>>language I'd bring up on a machine unless it had already been >>>setup on that machine. >>>I'd bring up Forth. One can get the console in and out running >>>first. One can then easily experiment with the disk IO until >>>it is working right. >>>The source is available and easy to understand. >>>Once one has a good understanding, bringing up other >>>languages is trivial. When it comes to teaching programming to kids, simple computers like those in the 8-bit era surely have to be the best. You might want to check out FIGnition, my DIY educational computer, which although based on a modern AVR MCU, is designed to work like a retro 8-bit computer; is simple enough to be built by novices and small enough to be fairly easily understood. https://sites.google.com/site/libby8dev/fignition It works with PAL and NTSC video and around 80 have been sold to Universities, Colleges and Schools in the past 8 months since its release. -cheers from julz

14 years, 6 months

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Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 11:08 PM 1/2/2012, Ethan Dicks wrote: >I was never a C128 user, nor were there a lot of them in our local >Commodore user group. In general, though, how common was CP/M usage >among the C128 crowd? Was it too little, too late by then? Certainly CBM was pretty good at "too little, too late." When I acquired my C-64 in 1984 or so, I spent too much for the CP/M cartridge, and I rarely used it. I, like CBM, thought it would widely expand what software I might run. Didn't turn out that way. - John

14 years, 6 months

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An interesting job for someone in the UK?

by lproven＠gmail.com

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/30/hawking_job/ Maintain & support the undocumented tech of Prof Stephen Hawking's wheelchair. Wow. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884

14 years, 6 months

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CP/M FCB structure (was 22disk & CP/M's diskettes )

by elazzerini＠interfree.it

Hi all, Some days ago I posted a request to identify the FCB parameters to read correctly a 8" disk CP/M. I know that i was wrong in the subject so I would like to summarize and i thank you for the suggestions and criticisms. The data obtained directly with the STAT command DSK: are the following: 9600: 128 Byte Record Capacity 1200: Kilobyte Drive Capacity 128: 32 Byte Directory Entries 128: Checked Directory Entries 128: Records / Extent 16: Records / Block 64: Sectors / Track 2: Reserved tracks 2 SIDES After further investigation the parameters for the correct reading would appear as follows: BEGIN SCO2 (1024 bytes/sector) - 8 DSDD " MFM DENSITY, HIGH CYLINDERS 77 SIDES 2 SECTORS 8,1024 Side1 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 Side2 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 ORDER CYLINDERS BSH 4 BLM 15 EXM 0 DSM 300 DRM 127 AL0 SFO 00H 11110000B AL1 2 END The following additional information which I hope can clarify or help: The inclusion of incorrect data was due to a misreading of my screen on the console CP/M in the data down the email. The calculations were performed by acquiring more information from the operating system CP/M manuals which shows how to derive the parameters needed to compose and then subsequently identified by extrapolating the FCB. The stat command dsk: when possible on a working machine that is able to read the disk whose parameters are to be identified can be useful, but if you can not read the disc seems to have realized that the only way is to use anadisk and 22disk. Anadisk reports: Tracks 0 and 1 = single density 26x128byte with OS CP/M that points to a resident BIOS involved in F800H entry points; Tracks 2-76 = 8x1024byte double density with directory consists of 2 blocks 2048Byte for a total of 128 entries and the remaining space for data SCO2 means disk2 SCOMAR machine (in Italy there was a PCB derived from the Ferguson Bigboard I with a different 1797 FDC controller and BIOS and it has been used to drive a knitting machine now discontinued and no longer supported) The diskette was created from a friend using software IMD of Dave Dunfield and myself played on floppy 3.5 "1.44MB respecting the original features (or almost I hope) With these parameters i was able to read and write to the disk even it remains some doubt as for example by adding the file to disk MBASIC.COM this does not seem to properly turn on the machine that uses this disk format Infact the main problem was that probabily the EXM value not make me able to write files greater than 16KB and the picture visualized the 3 times the same filename. So any kind of suggestion to understand betfer the FCB structure and parameters of CP/M will be welcome. I would like to thank: - For suggestions allison for the valuable explanations and clarifications which go beyond the simple description inherent in any textbook Cisin Fred for the tip to detect the possible size of the FCB parameter BLS analyzing the disk About received criticism may i ask for: - Could anybody give me the name of sw to reduce the size of a photo? - And what used to convert it into text easily? (I have not had a chance to do a dump from the screen) - Where can I buy the registered version of 22disk or is no longer available or supported? I apologize again for my poor English that puts me in trouble to fully understand the criticism received. Have an happy new year 2012 to all. Enrico - Pisa - ITaly

14 years, 6 months

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Wanted - Boards for KS-10 (PDP-20 / DECSYSTEM 20)

by et＠arpanet.com

Wanted - Boards for KS-10: (PDP-20/DECSYSTEM-20) 40722 64K memory M8629 64k memory M8616 Console+Clock M8618 memory controller M8619 unibus adapter M8621 Data path memory M8620 Data path execute M8622 Control Ram Address M8623 Control Ram I have a KS-10 with a few boards, but hopeful I'll be able to complete it someday - getting it running after that is another story :-) (Any leads on where to find those boards would be greatly appreciated). Thanks, Ed Taussig

14 years, 6 months

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CP/M disk format: need help

by cisin＠xenosoft.com

WHAT brand and model computer are you talking about? On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Enrico Lazzerini wrote: > Well this is all i know: > 8" > STAT d:DSK: > 9600 r: 128 Byte Record Capacity > 1200 k: Kilobyte Drive Capacity > 128 d: 32 Byte Directory Entries > 128 c: Checked Directory Entries > 128 e: Records/ Extent > 16 b: Records/ Block > 64 s: Sectors/ Track > 2 t: Reserved Tracks > 2 SIDES > This is that I calculate: > BEGIN SCO2 (1024 bytes/sector) - DSDD 8" > DENSITY MFM ,HIGH 1200K disk capacity is close to maximum for an 8" diskette. It is what you expect from 8" DSDD. "High" would be incorrect usage, but >from a 5.25" perspective, it fits. > CYLINDERS 77 SIDES 1 SECTORS 8,1024 NO. You can not get 1200K disk capacity from single sided. > SIDE1 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 > SIDE2 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 Those are 10 sectors per side. You said 8 Are you sure that that is the sector sequence? > Here what 22disk tell me: > http://elazzerini.interfree.it/Foto2982.jpg > Where I'm wrong? 1) Instead of transcribing some text, you sent a URL to a picture that is more than 2 MEGAbytes. (a photograph of your screen?) THANK YOU for sending the URL instead of attaching it! A) Not everybody reads their mail in a web browser. Sending a URL requires cut and paste to get it TO the web browser. B) Believe it or not, some of us use dial-up! 2M takes too long. C) Surely that file could be MUCH smaller. Thats a kilobyte for each character on the screen. Was it an error message? That would only call for a few lines of text. Was it a scrambled display, such as non-ASCII characters in filenames? 2) You are posting asking for technical support for an unregistered copy of a program on a forum where the author is an active participant! If you REGISTER the program, then he will provide support, maybe even an updated copy of the program, etc. (It may have additional formats now!) You didn't tell us the name of the format. You didn't tell us the form of your calculations. Were they a wild guess? or did you look at sectors on the disk to determine them? What "side-pattern" is it? Does it alternate sides before incrementing cylinder, or does it increment cylinder first, and use the first side before starting on the second? Does it then go UP the second side, or DOWN? You didn't provide us with hex dumps of the directory sectors. NO, DO NOT SEND US MORE PHOTOGRAPHS! If the problem is in the directory, then let's see THAT! It's 32 bytes per directory entry/extent - depending on what the problem is, it might not take more than a few.

14 years, 6 months

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Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by jonas＠otter.se

> [BASIC-09] > >> > Never even heard of that one, but then, I've never seen or used OS/9 I'm my > I am not suprised, It wasn't that common. > >> > life. Never owned a Dragon or any other 6809 box. > I ran it on my CoCos. In generla, the OS-9 languages were very nice for > an 8-bit machine. In the early 1980s I worked for a fork lift manufacturer, and we were two persons who wrote a simple ISAM file database and a warehouse stock control system for a Swedish 6809 machine from a company called Primal Data. I have no idea why they chose that name, but their machines were well made. They had MMUs so I think we had 1 MB of memory in them. We wrote the software in Pascal under OS-9, some of it in Microware Pascal, later we discovered another Pascal, the name of which escapes me at the moment. I remember it compiled to machine code instead of p-code, and had a lot of bells and whistles which we found useful, although slightly buggy as opposed to Microware's Pascal which was quite solid IIRC. We managed to work two or three people at the same time on one machine. Compiling was dreadfully slow with only 5 1/4" diskettes and the machines were much nicer when we had 10 MB hard disks (Rodime) put in them. /Jonas

14 years, 6 months

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SCSI-1 to IDE/SD bridge project

by LYNCHAJ＠YAHOO.COM

Hi I will be getting additional SCSI to IDE/SD PCBs in mid-January 2012 in case anyone would like some Douglas's working SCSI to IDE/SD board with a firmware release is here http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem/browse_thread/thread/5d5fb5bf2f197082# The KiCAD EDA files are also posted on the N8VEM wiki http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/browse/#view=ViewFolder&param=MINI%20SCSI%20t o%20IDE%20prototypes It is not complete yet but a working Zapple debug monitor is *major progress* towards a working bridge converter. Am looking for additional development team members to finish out the firmware on this project. We are very close and just need some additional effort to complete the project. Serious responses only please. Andrew Lynch

14 years, 6 months

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Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC (allison)

by james＠attfield.co.uk

On 12/31/2011 01:43 AM, Josh Dersch wrote: > Anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably featured 8080 or Z80 > BASIC? > > What I've got running at the moment is a mongrel IMSAI 8080 with a > Z80, 48K of working memory and a serial port. My eventual goal is to > get CP/M running on it (I have a Cromemco 64FDC -- anyone know of > either an official CP/M for this or know of a BIOS that supports this > controller before I start writing my own?) but for the time being I > thought it would be fun to get a BASIC running on it. > If you have drives hooked up you will be able to run Cromemco CDOS with a 64-FDC and the obvious choices would be either Cromemco 16K Basic or 32K Structured Basic (although 64K might be a better bet for that one). You don't say what CPU board you have but I have run CDOS in an IMSAI with a ZPU, 16-FDC and 64K and it runs nicely - lovely blinkenlights! Moving to CP/M shouldn't be too hard but you will have to either find a pre-patched one or integrate the IO and disk routines yourself and, catch 22, that needs a working system to start with (chicken and egg of course). If you do move to CP/M expect that the Cromemco Basic's won't work without some patching as they typically use some CDOS calls not present in CP/M. James

14 years, 6 months

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Data General computer

by a50mhzham＠gmail.com

At 07:47 PM 11/30/2011, you wrote: >m88k Systems use standard SCSI and can use anything up to 2GB without a >problem. I have DG/UX 5.?? on CD and 4.?? on Tape here. As far as I know, the one we have uses standard SCSI (as opposed to what? Diff?) as well. >-Matt > >On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Jules Richardson < >jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Tom wrote: > > > >> I might be soon coming into possession of some Data General stuff. Maybe > >> an Aviion 66. There's a second one, maybe a model 37? I'm not sure. No > >> drives. I'm going to see what's there and post the inventory in the next > >> few weeks. I've never heard of any demand for these; anyone know if there > >> would be any interest? > >> > > > > Well the m88k-based systems tickle my interest (for no other reason than > > the choice of CPU) - I think they switched over to boring ol' Intel at some > > point, though :-) > > > > I don't know how widespread copies of the OS are, and if there are any > > 'gotchas' involved with rebuilding a machine that's lacking disks... > > > > cheers > > > > Jules > > > > 471 . [Commentary] It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt. --Twain NEW: a50mhzham at gmail.com ? N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) ? Second Tops (Set Dancing) ? FIND ME ON FACEBOOK 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W ? Elevation 815' ? Grid Square EN53wc LAN/Telecom Analyst ? Open-source Dude ? Musician ? Registered Linux User 385531

14 years, 6 months

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(OT) New Years greetings

by oe5ewl＠gmail.com

My best wishes for the new year 2012 fly out to all subscribers of this nice list! Time to say thank you to all who contributed and helped out with the questions I had! Have a nice new-years celebration and day, Regards, Wolfgang -- Wolfgang Eichberger - OE5EWL Operating System Collector Blog: 5ewl.blogspot.com Homepage: www.eichberger.org

14 years, 6 months

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russian PDP-11 like K1801BM2 CPU Startup reading w/o address?

by dmonnens＠gmail.com

Holm, I asked one of my colleagues who is working on computer research in Ukraine. He did not have a direct answer to your question, but provided these sources to check for solutions to your problems: http://forum.maxiol.com/index.php?showtopic=4599 - look here http://ramlamyammambam.livejournal.com/149983.html?format=light - ask here or maybe here: http://ru-radio-electr.livejournal.com/229706.html?thread=3609418&format=li… - I know user suvorow_ as a good specialist. -Devin Monnens > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 16:44:24 +0100 > From: Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Subject: russian PDP-11 like K1801BM2 CPU Startup reading w/o address? > Message-ID: <20111203154424.GA56131 at pegasus.freiberg-net.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > I want to play with a russian K1801BM2 CPU (K1801VM2). > My russian from the school is very very rusty and so I have problems to > understand what's going on with this CPU while startup. > There is some "besadresnoe tschtanie", a read from the bus w/o > sending out an address before w/o active SYNC. > It is right, that this read is building the upper 8 bits from the start > address in the rom area with Systemu Mode (Halt Mode) = 1? > Can anyone please confirm this? > > BTW: how is this external register to be done in HW? > > Does anyone know if there are schematics of SBCs existing w/o special > support ICs like The K1801VP1-55 or so? > > Kind Regards and thanks in advance, > > Holm > -- > Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, > Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 > www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741 > > -- Devin Monnens www.deserthat.com The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

14 years, 6 months

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Computer like no other,unique

by dave.thearchivist＠gmail.com

We on IRC want to know how rare/what this is http://www.ebay.com/itm/Computer-like-no-other-unique-/150724230097 Although the salesmanship is depressingly common! Dave Caroline

14 years, 6 months

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XT-IDE V2 PCBs

by LYNCHAJ＠YAHOO.COM

Hi!? I just received an email from the PCB manufacturer and they?ve shipped the XT-IDE V2 PCBs.? These PCBs allow you to use parallel IDE drives (or CF with adapters) on 8 bit ISA bus legacy PC/XT or similar computers. Generally speaking, the XT-IDE with parallel IDE drives and/or CF adapters are more reliable and readily available than legacy ST506/ST412 MFM/RLL hard drive subsystems. As before, these PCBs will be $12 each plus $2 shipping in the US and $5 elsewhere. These are the Do-It-Yourself PCBs based on the plain TTL chip technology like the XT-IDE V1 boards.? More information can be found here http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/browse/#view=ViewFolder&param=XT-IDE%20V2 Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

14 years, 6 months

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scanning and conversion questions

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

Since several people here do this kind of thing, I figured I'd ask here. I'm trying my hand at scanning stuff to PDF. The only thing I seem to find for doing this in Linux is Simple Simple Scan. I'm scanning in photo mode because text mode is unacceptably grainy. My problem now is converting the resulting jpg into a pdf. ImageMagick is the obvious tool for this, but no matter what I do, the resulting pdf is grainy. How can I tell ImageMagick to not diddle with the quality? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

14 years, 6 months

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4x16K Datacraft core memory rack units available

by dm561＠torfree.net

----- Original message: Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:16:50 -0500 From: B Degnan <billdeg at degnanco.com> To: cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 4x16K Datacraft core memory rack units available Message-ID: <201112311517.pBVFH8TB047885 at billy.ezwind.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > These are general purpose core that can be used in more than just the > > Burroughs minis they came from. ?I know for example that a rack like > > this > > could be used with an S-100 computer or 8008 system. > >What Burroughs minis? 6000 series I assume, specifically I was told these came from a prototype system (?) from the early 1970's, and were then surplused after light use. ------------- I'd hardly call a Burroughs 6x00 a "mini"... http://www.retrocomputingtasmania.com/home/projects/burroughs-b6700-mainfra…

14 years, 6 months

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John Sculley interview part 1 posted

by david＠classiccomputing.com

>> Please have a listen when you can. [...] > >> http://bit.ly/tmoDTL > > I had a look, but lynx didn't show me anything useful. Manually > fetching and looking at it, I don't see anything amid the blizzard of > HTML that I recognize as a reference to a soundfile - y'know, something > listenable on classic computers (many of which, eg, my SPARCs, do have > sound output hardware). But I'm probably missing something, because I > also see some things that look like errors to my minimal knowledge of > HTML, things like <a href='$manage-app-url$'>. > > So, where's the soundfile hiding? Hi Mouse, Sorry, I'm not so good at the tech of RSS and so on . . . that's why I use a Mac and iWeb, etc. But . . . I also post the files somewhere so they can be directly downloaded, so please try here - https://public.me.com/dgreelish Best, David Greelish, Computer Historian President, Atlanta Historical Computing Society Classic Computing The Home of Computer History Nostalgia http://www.classiccomputing.com Classic Computing Blog Retro Computing Roundtable podcast "Stan Veit's History of the Personal Computer" audiobook podcast Classic Computing Show video podcast

14 years, 6 months

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IBM 360 model 65 docs wanted

by iamcamiel＠gmail.com

A friend of mine who was a software engineer at Digital Equipment Corporation gave me a console panel for a System/360 model 65 that they had in their office (the console panel, not the system). I am restoring the console panel, and I'm creating an interface to a PC to make all the lights and switches work as originally intended. I'm keeping a blog of my progress at <http://ibm360-console.blogspot.com> http://ibm360-console.blogspot.com. I'm now looking for field engineering documentation (hardcopy or scans/pdfs) in order to make the emulation as faithful as possible to the original. These are some of the document titles I'm looking for: System/360 Model 65, 2065 Processing Unit, Field Engineering Maintenance Manual System/360 Model 65, 2065 Processing Unit, Field Engineering Diagrams Manual System/360 Model 65 Field Engineering Manual of Instruction System/360 Model 65 Field Engineering Theory of Operation Manual System/360 Model 65 CPU and Channels Training, Field Engineering Education Supplementary Course Material The same material for the model 60, 62 or 67 instead of the 65 would help too, given the similarities between these machines. One thing in particular that I'm looking for that would help a lot is a data flow diagram showing the register and bus names. Another thing that would be very useful is a listing of the BCROS microcode. The functional characteristics manual (which is available on Bitsavers) doesn't offer the level of detail I'd like. Cheers, Camiel

14 years, 6 months

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John Sculley interview part 1 posted

by david＠classiccomputing.com

Everyone, Please have a listen when you can. I'm working on part 2 this evening. Let me know what you think of the interview, and hope you'll check out the whole thing! http://bit.ly/tmoDTL Best, David Greelish, Computer Historian President, Atlanta Historical Computing Society Classic Computing The Home of Computer History Nostalgia http://www.classiccomputing.com Classic Computing Blog Retro Computing Roundtable podcast "Stan Veit's History of the Personal Computer" audiobook podcast Classic Computing Show video podcast

14 years, 6 months

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4x16K Datacraft core memory rack units available

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

> > These are general purpose core that can be used in more than just the > > Burroughs minis they came from. ?I know for example that a rack like this > > could be used with an S-100 computer or 8008 system. > >What Burroughs minis? 6000 series I assume, specifically I was told these came from a prototype system (?) from the early 1970's, and were then surplused after light use. I don't have confirmation on that. They could be used in a PDP 11/45 (?), IBM 3179, and I know first-hand that they can be adapted for use in a microprocessor system as others of this same model were used in a 8008 system (I think) homebrew project or two that I have seen. Late core-era adaptable memory. If I get more info I will let you know. I still have at least one partial rack available if anyone is interested contact me directly. Bill

14 years, 6 months

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Infocom and DECUS Mini-Tasker

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> Way back in 1980, Infocom posted an ad in the September 1980 issue of > the DECUS Mini-Tasker (the DECUS RT-11 SIG newsletter). This was the > first ad the Infocom ever produced and I'd like to get a scan of it > for the book. > Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find anyone who kept this > newsletter. I've contacted a number of people in the DEC community > but still no luck. Someone pointed me to this forum and said there > might be someone here who could help. John Dundas has this up on the web at: http://dundas-mac.caltech.edu/~dundas/retro/DEC%20Docs/DECUS/mini-tasker/mt… You want the bottom of page 47. Tim.

14 years, 6 months

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HP1000 Tape Drive Interface

by etienne＠tlabs.ac.za

Hi All, In light of the wonderful cache of HP1000 software available now, and not having any way to load it onto the machine I have to put my request in again. I need a 13181B interface set for the tape drive. I'm happy to pay and cover shipping to South Africa. I also have a 13183 set to swap if someone is interested. Etienne Vermeulen

14 years, 6 months

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SD 8" Altos disk writing problems

by g-wright＠att.net

Well I got around to setting up another computer with a Buslogic Bt-542B SCSI controller. It uses a DP 8473 floppy controller. Using Image Disk, it reads the Altos disk with out errors, but chokes on writing one. I get write Error No Sector on every sector. Drive is a Tandon TM848 E, tried another of the same drives with the same results. Of coarse I tried a few new floppies. The SD test program says the controller can work with SD disks. Any Ideas ?? - Jerry Jerry Wright g-wright @att.net

14 years, 6 months

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4x16K Datacraft core memory rack units available

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

4x16K Datacraft core memory rack units available (the 5th slot in the rack is for the controller) with Datacraft DC-38 Core and associated power supply, contact me privately if interested. Photos: http://www.vintagecomputer.net/datacraft/ (I believe I have it right that they're 4 x16K cores.) These are general purpose core that can be used in more than just the Burroughs minis they came from. I know for example that a rack like this could be used with an S-100 computer or 8008 system. The photo of the individual core card with the cover removed is an extra, not part of the populated racks. I am located in Landenberg, PA USA roughly between Baltimore and Philadelphia. Bill

14 years, 6 months

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Infocom and DECUS Mini-Tasker

by rickthornquist＠gmail.com

Hi All - I'm writing a book about Infocom and I'm looking for your help finding something. Way back in 1980, Infocom posted an ad in the September 1980 issue of the DECUS Mini-Tasker (the DECUS RT-11 SIG newsletter). This was the first ad the Infocom ever produced and I'd like to get a scan of it for the book. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find anyone who kept this newsletter. I've contacted a number of people in the DEC community but still no luck. Someone pointed me to this forum and said there might be someone here who could help. Does anyone here have this newsletter? If not, do you know of someone who might? If anyone could help me out with this I'd very much appreciate it. Thanks! - Rick Thornquist

14 years, 6 months

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A Yuletide dilemma

by lproven＠gmail.com

Over Yule dinner, a friend offered me a free computer. Not really vintage by CCtalk standards, I guess. A dual-core 2GHz G5 Mac Pro. The thing is, I am considering getting rid of my PowerPC OS X Macs. I like OS X very much, but despite Cameron's valiant efforts with the very nifty TenFourFox, it's running out of current browsers and it only runs a version of Mac OS X that's now 2 releases out of date. As a writing tool, a G3 with MacOS 9.2 on it would almost be more use, as it makes no pretence of being a current machine and one wouldn't expect most modern websites to work... I am torn. I'd love it, but I'm not sure I really have any use for it, and I'm short on space and already paring back the collection... :?( -- Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508

14 years, 6 months

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Was SC/MP kit PDF, now SDK-51 manuals.

by wrm＠retro.co.za

Hi all >From: Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> > >Steve, it wasn't too much work. Not as bad as scanning the SDK-51 manuals >with my manual feed flatbed scanner. I have here the SDK-51 Assembly Manual, which I was planning to scan since http://manx.classiccmp.org/details.php/47,13105 says it's not online. If it is actually online, save me the trouble? Also, the actual document is available for postage (from South Africa). W

14 years, 6 months

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A Yuletide dilemma

by james＠attfield.co.uk

> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 15:07:11 -0800 > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: A Yuletide dilemma > Message-ID: <p06240807cb1ffde2b64a(a)[192.168.1.199]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" --- 8< --- > Right now it's running Adobe Bridge, Photoshop, Lightroom, InDesign, > and Acrobat as well as Phase One's Capture One, and a few other > things. My performance issues are strictly related to RAM and Disk > I/O. Actually the main performance problem is these **** HD's that > go to sleep on their own when not being used, and there doesn't seem > to be a way to turn off that behavior! > > Zane --- 8< --- Presumably un-checking 'Put the hard disk(s) to sleep when possible' in the 'Energy Saver' control panel doesn't have the desire effect? Jim

14 years, 6 months

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