- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Building up the 8E system, questions - advice - partsRequest

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jay West > All the original slides I've ever seen for BA11-K boxes are the > "cantilever" slides, what allow you to tilt the unit up 90 degrees once > it is extended. Right; there are actually two different types I've seen of those rotating slides, and in both, the rotating mechanism is part of the 'inner' slide (i.e. the part that bolts to the BA11 box). The older one (seen on BA11-D's, too) uses a T-shaped pull to release the rotate lock; the newer has an L-shaped release pull. All three (the non-rotating, and both rotating 'inners') use _basically_ the same 'outer' slide (i.e. the part that bolts to the rack); the outer-most slide (the 'outer' actually contains two parts, an outer and a middle) is about 3-1/2" wide. (There's an even wider 'outer' slide, but I forget what it goes to.) I said 'basically' since the three different versions do include various interlocks to prevent pulling the unit out of the slides, and some of the 'outers', although they are the same size, are not actually compatible with all the different 'inners', because their interlocks differ (although you could probably mod one to fit another without too much work). > So were the slides typically sold with the RK05 also "cantilever/tilt"? Not that I've ever seen. > Is that helpful for servicing an RK05 (never worked on one yet)? Not that I can think of - there are a few components on the bottom (e.g. the absolute filter), but most stuff is on the top. And the drive is so heavy, with all the weight at one end, that I wouldn't want to rotate one anyway! Although the BA11-K weighs a ton, too, and its weight is similarly concentrated at one end. Which may be why they changed the rotating fixture; the early one might not have been good at holding that much weight. Noel

10 years, 3 months

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Building up the 8E system, questions - advice - partsRequest

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jay West > I need to rack the RK05 and the TU56. On the RK05 - does anyone have a > spare set of slides or can I definitely just use RL02 slides (which I > have lots of)? All the RK05's I've ever seen used the wide slides that DEC used on their older -11's. So if you have a spare set of e.g. BA11-K slides, you can use them to 'hang' the RK05. The company that made those slides for DEC is still in business, and still sells similar slides; I toyed with the idea of buying a set, and seeing if they were compatible (maybe only on the bolt-hole level, not on the slide insertion level, from the pictures), but the cost (~$200, IIRC) dissuaded me so far. All the RL02's I've seen use the later, narrower slides. Maybe there's some way to attach an RL02-type inner to RK05, but without trying it, I couldn't say. > I have the wide grey inner slides on the RK05 but no outers and I > noticed just one of the inner slides has a gold L-catch release on it > so I'm wondering if there's anything special about RK05 slides. That gold L-catch doesn't ring a bell for me. Maybe your RK05 has different slides on it from most of them? Picture(s)? AFAIK the wide grey inner slides on most RK05's are stock; I just checked, and a BA11-K outer slide fit it just fine. (I can check some other types, e.g. -11/10N, if there is any use to that.) Noel

10 years, 3 months

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How to route Phase II

by paulkoning＠comcast.net

Thanks to help from Timothe Litt, I have Phase II support, including just enough "intercept" support to be useable, working in my Python router (svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/pydecnet/trunk/pydecnet). Tested it with a KS-10 TOPS-20 setup. I had it do NFT from a DECnet/E system two hops away. Worked correctly including the handling of the text (ASCII) data. It doesn't do all that is required for intercept nodes -- tracking NSP connections so it can disconnect them if the path goes away. Also, Phase II NSP does not do packet timeout and retransmit, so if a packet is lost on the path to the destination, the connection is wedged. I may end up doing a bit more than standard intercept operation and do timeout/retransmit on behalf of the end system. That's cheating, of course, but why not? Anyway, this may help those who have Phase II systems. Comments and feedback and bug reports appreciated. paul

10 years, 3 months

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Cables

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jim S > Anyone have a source for IDC cables / supplies? I'm in need of some 40, > 50 and various other cables and connectors. If you're talking about the standard .1" double-row connectors on flat cables, the _parts_ for them (connectors and cables) are quite easy to find (most suppliers such a Mouser, Jameco, etc have them, and you can also find them on eBait); buy some, and make up your own cables. They're dirt cheap that way. (Just use a vice to press the connectors onto the cable; you don't need to buy the special crimping tool.) Noel

10 years, 3 months

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Mobile Web Site Technology to Revive Old Browers

by billdegnan＠gmail.com

I noticed today that web sites that are screen width responsive and device independent are also "responsive" to really old browsers like Netscape 2.0 running on a Windows 3.11 box. The whole push to make web sites mobile friendly has had the unintended consequence of making Windows 3.11 web browsing a little more practical than before. The only issue I found is with javascript, one has best results if turned off entirely. Sites load pretty quick as a lot of the overhead if not transmitted by the server, perceiving the download is to a mobile or limited device. If you get the chance and run an older browser on an older OS my site is a pretty good example of a modern site design that works in Windows 3.11 / Netscape or Alpha / Mosaic etc. Bill -- @ BillDeg: Web: vintagecomputer.net Twitter: @billdeg <https://twitter.com/billdeg> Youtube: @billdeg <https://www.youtube.com/user/billdeg> Unauthorized Bio <http://www.vintagecomputer.net/readme.cfm>

10 years, 3 months

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Pdp-10 emulation

by tmv713＠cryptolab.net

Hi people? I've installed SIMH on my computer and I want to get around with the emulator for the pdp-10; it was a beautiful machine and the ancestor of the GNU project, so is quite charming. I have no idea on how to begin using it. Is the first time in my life that I get in touch with something related to old computing. I want to know where I can get software, TECO and adventure to mess around (because of the importance of both); and, very importantly, how to get this software running in the emulator. I've been searching about the software and it's quite easy to get. Hope my question doesn't bother people, thanks :) Tedd Vazquez. -- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GC/CS/CM/CC/E/ED/FA/H/IT/LS/L/MC/M/MU/PA/P/S/SS/TW/AT d--(-)@ s: a? C++++>$ UBLC(++++)>$ P+>+$ L++++>$ E+++>$ W+++>$ N+ !o K+++++ w---() !O !M !V PS++(+++) PE+++ Y+(++) PGP+(++) t+(++) !5 X+(++) R tv+ b++++>$ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e* h* !r z? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

10 years, 3 months

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1950s TV computers

by cclist＠sydex.com

I've been having fun looking at TV programs that I watched when the family had a 17" monochrome RCA set. At any rate, here's one such about a guy who gets shocked by a computer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-pfWhehSB4 Note that, about 3:20 in, the guy doing the troubleshooting on the system pulls a faulty tube and gives it to his companion for replacement. "12AY7" is what he says, but hands the other guy an octal tube--the 12AY7 is a 9-pin sub-miniature. (TV had goofs even then). Other than the IBM Model B electric typewriters, there doesn't seem to be much to see. From 1955. Here's another one from 1956: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33OFJEWUgQE This involves a mechanical translating machine that's been adapted to diagnose and prescribe treatment for diseases. There, you can see the same IBM typewriters, as well a couple of keypunches (IBM 024/6?) and bunches of tape drives that I don't recognize. "Memory coils", anyone? The strange thing is that years later, I met up with a fellow who had worked with Gerald Salton on the nascent SMART system that, I believe, eventually morphed into MEDLARS. Stuff from a time when men wore hats and women wore dresses. --Chuck

10 years, 3 months

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Random VGA question: 160x200 "high color" mode?

by r_a_feldman＠hotmail.com

>Message: 12 >Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 19:30:27 -0800 >From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> >Subject: Random VGA question: 160x200 "high color" mode? > >Awhile back a "pre-alpha" version of the PC classic "DOOM" was unearthed >(dated Feb 28, 1993), and it claims to support a "high color" VGA mode. >From the README.TXT: > > "Use High-color DAC (160 x200, but great color!) > (Only newer VGA cards have this-if it looks OK, ya got it) > (This may--okay, will--REALLY screw up the playscreen's > graphics. Just look at the neat colors and don't worry.)" > >I've tried it on a number of machines (from the 386 era to a modern PC) >and they all just end up showing garbage when this mode is enabled. I >cannot for the life of me find a reference to this mode existing >anywhere, but I assume it must have worked on *some* SVGA chipset of the >era since ID programmed in support for it. I'm guessing it was cut >because nothing else supported it (and because 160x200 must have looked >awful, even with lots of colors...) > >Does this odd video mode ring any bells with anyone out there? Any idea >what hardware to look for that might support it? At this point I'm more >curious about the actual hardware than getting this pre-alpha to run >with it... > >- Josh Try sending a message to Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org). He has done a lot of work with old PC graphics modes and might know about this mode. Bob

10 years, 3 months

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Unix System V rel 1 on pdp-11?

by ed＠groenenberg.net

Hi. When looking for Unix distro's for rhe PDP-11, I did find information of how to make a System II using a Unix version 7 as it's base. I also came across some hits about the existence of System 5 Release 1 for the PDP-11 (basically intended to be only for the 45 & 70). On www.archive.org I did find both the System II and System 5 user manuals, and the S5 manuals does mention the 11/70. So, did it indeed exists and if so, is there someone who can help me maybe with an image to run under SIMH? Regards, Ed -- Ik email, dus ik besta.

10 years, 3 months

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Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi Guys Having got 8/e (A & B) plus 8/f and 8/m into production its time I made a few comments. The aim has always been to reproduce the original panels using the process DEC used all those years ago. Needless to say we had to go through the learning curve with only photographs, scans and one 8/m original panel to go on. In the interests of origiality I have kept what we used call 'features' as found in the documentation and the sample we had. I'm trying to reproduce the original, not produce an improved or fixed version. The only process deviations I have allowed myself are as follows: 1. The original versions would have been drawn twice full size by hand on matt paper in indian ink. One sheet per colo(u)r would have been requred. They would then have used a process camera to reduce to one to one positive masters on clear acetate film. The cameras (they were huge) and the darkend rooms they worked in no longer exist. I used to do just that in the early '70's but whats weird is where I worked is less than 50 yards from the silk screen studio doing the work now. Now I use Inkscape and its layers to do the same thing. The screeners have an Epson printer the size of a piano to print my layers in black onto clear film. After that the process is the same as it was. They take a fine meshed cloth streched onto a frame. Its coated (by hand) with a photo sensitive emulsion, when dry it gets exposed through the master using a UV light source. The the parts proteced by black on the master are water soluable and get washed out and hence let the ink through. So one screen per layer is required 2. DEC would have printed the images first and routed or milled the holes using some kind jig later. As long as the hole stayed inside the white line that was deemed to be OK. We drill (laser cut) first and screen afterwards. Regards Rod

10 years, 3 months

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Building up the 8E system, questions - advice - partsRequest

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I restored my 8E cpu to running condition years ago, but never got around to the rest of the rack. Mainly to reclaim floor space, I'm getting the peripherals I always meant to go with that system into the dual rack and wanted to ask a few questions... Dual bay H967, items to go in are PDP-8E, PC04, TU56, RK05, and possibly an RX01/02. Pictures at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02/25079374039 and https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02/25152416940 But the rack has two nice looking doors, example: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02/22605790200 (the TU10 and TM11 is being traded off, so the left rack in that picture is an empty one now but I still have both "doors"). I'd like to keep the two doors, but will not be able to fit all the devices above in. May just hook up an "external" RX02 (I have one in a DEC roll-around cart), or perhaps one would fit behind one of those mustard colored doors, I dunno. Hate covering a nice peripheral up behind a door. Might put everything in the left rack, get rid of the bottom door, and just use standard filler panels. Current plan is cpu in right bay, pc04 underneath. Left bay would be TU56 & RK05 (and RX02 if I lose the door). What would you all do for something that is as period-correct as possible? I looked closely at the sloped panels at the top of each cabinet. It looks like the yellow trim/logo is actually a plate that slides into the bezel. The one on the right is just yellow, but has a white border screened on it. The one on the left has no plate, so it's just "white". What is the chance that anyone has one of those yellow plates, perhaps one that actually says "DEC" on it? I'd be highly interested. Failing that, at least one that matches the other (yellow with a white border). Anyone have one laying around? I'd have never thought I could run out of official DEC slides, but it appears that I have (at least for older DEC items). I need to rack the RK05 and the TU56. On the RK05 - does anyone have a spare set of slides or can I definitely just use RL02 slides (which I have lots of)? I have the wide grey inner slides on the RK05 but no outers and I noticed just one of the inner slides has a gold L-catch release on it so I'm wondering if there's anything special about RK05 slides. Thanks in advance! J

10 years, 3 months

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PDP-8/e - Front panel switch reproductions and front panel PCB?

by anders.k.nelson＠gmail.com

Hi all, I found switch levers and a mounting frame design ( http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853) that I would like to have casted with molded-in color, close to the originals as reasonable. Has anyone already done this that I can simply buy from? If any injection molds have been built I'd love to put those to work. Would it be better to just paint a 3D print of these? Also has anyone created the front panel PCB design? I use EAGLE and would love to at least have a CAD outline from which to start as I build my emulated PDP-8/e. Pretty much like the SBC6120 but emulated on a 32-bit micro as opposed to the HD6120. I await your thoughts! -- Anders Nelson +1 (517) 775-6129 www.erogear.com

10 years, 3 months

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PDP-10 programming [was RE: Dumb Terminal games (was Re: Looking for a small fast VAX development machine)]

by RichA＠LivingComputerMuseum.org

From: David Griffith Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 4:05 PM > One of my ongoing wish projects is to learn to program a pdp-10 so I can > port Frotz to it. The canonical textbook is Ralph Gorin's _Introduction to DECSYSTEM-20 Assembly Language Programming_ (Digital Press, 1981). Lots of examples, well thought out presentation. It's a shame that Ralph's book has become so rare. (Seriously, who does the seller asking $1,441.25 for a copy think he's talking to???) Probably remaindered in the 1990s at any library that had a copy. If you were near Seattle, I'd say make an appointment and I'd give you an afternoon's worth of overview. Rich Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer Living Computer Museum 2245 1st Avenue S Seattle, WA 98134 mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

10 years, 3 months

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Techno-savvy...

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

What is a techno-savvy student? Can classic computers possibly give an answer? I used early microcomputers in my electronics classroom I taught in the 70?s. Computers back then were rather primitive, not much better than calculators, but did mimic human learning ? well maybe not advanced enough to deal with calculus! But they did help with the tedious tasks of generating random #s to start a particular process - a game for instance. Maybe not intellectually challenging nonetheless doing a required job leading today to sophisticated games that do more than entertain. Back then students were put in groups to build a work station employing a Commodore 64 or Apple II or Heathkit H8. Fund-raising bought these computers at the school board was reluctant to spend money and or political capital that only benefited the few though we did install a workstation in the library ? what wonder that created as it was small in comparison to the PDP-8. So what is a techno-savvy student now: Conversant in using a technological gadget to enhance his/her life? Or being able to build a computing workstation in high school? Or for simply possessing a basic understanding of how electronic/computing technology makes life more bearable, less boring? I don?t have the answers though being 64 I?ve lived through the evolution of computing technology and seeing how it?s affected my life good or otherwise! Looking forward to using my old computers, Coleco ADAM and Haethkit H8, if I can keep them going by procuring parts, as my dear friend who has them works tirelessly and I contribute when I get up to the big city in keeping them functioning. Such are the joys of classic computing. :)

10 years, 3 months

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PDP8 front panel - Shipping.

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi Guys I have now seen the production batch of 8/e A and B. panels. They will ship next week after inspection and packing. 8/f and 8/m will be next up. If you have placed an order for any of the above please confirm your shipping address. When I switched to the textured front I ordered a few more blank panels. Depending on the yeild after final inspection there may be a few extras available. Regards Rod

10 years, 3 months

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Free Sinclair QL emulator

by lproven＠gmail.com

While experimenting with Sinclair emulators on Ubuntu last night, I made 2 discoveries which might interest folk here. First, the author of perhaps the premium Sinclair QL emulator for Windows, QPC, has made it unrestricted freeware. The news is from mid-2014 but I'd missed it. Both QPC1 and QPC2 are now available free of charge. I found this news via Dilwyn Jones' site, here: http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/emu/ This is the direct download & info site for QPC: http://www.kilgus.net/qpc/index.html They come bundled with SMSQ/e, the final-generation QL OS, derived >from QDOS, complete with bootable hard disk images. The second discovery was that QPC2 for Windows installs and runs flawlessly under WINE on 64-bit Ubuntu. :-) -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) ? +420 702 829 053 (?R)

10 years, 3 months

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Needs help w/ diagnosing and hopefully repairing of a DEC Tape Drive

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello, I have two TSZ07 here. As they were sold as "for parts" obviously they both needed some repair. One of the two had severe mechanical problems. One motor had a loose unglued magnet inside, so there was a motor fault error, and the motor couldn't rotate freely, making a rattle noise inside when operated by hand. Of course it was better not to act on that before repair, to avoid to damage the magnet. To repair it I needed to unscrew the reel (in my case the front reel with the loading mechanism to hold the interchangeable reel with the tape), unscrew the motor from the frame, then remove the tacho (very delicate!) and then finally open the motor. The loose magnet appeared to be originally glued to the metal housing with cyanoacrilic glue, so I positioned it by hand aligning it with the remaining glue traces on the housing, held it in place with a clamp tool then finally added new abundant glue all around, letting it to flow under the magnet. Then waited for 24 hours and reassembled. The tacho wheel needed to be cleaned, as the very thin steel growth with some oxide in the small holes, not being optically open enough to work. You can see how this wheel is delicate... maximum care not to bend or crack it! It worked! PS= check very carefully your PSU, as both drives had severe problems on it, they are very prone to fail! One simply ceased to operate after some time, and needed some component replacement to work again. The second one did worst! It did fail beginning suddenly to put out pulsed voltage (8-10V peak) on the 5V. I turned it off within a couple of seconds, but unluckly it fried some ICs on the digital board... It had to change two Z80-serie ICs on the board, to let it finally work... And of course to repair the PSU and test it for some hours with load before testing it again with the real hardware. Andrea

10 years, 3 months

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PDP-11/20 vd one that just says pdp 11 what are the date differences?? OEM?

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 07:21:13 -0500 (EST) > From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) > Subject: Re: PDP-11/20 vd one that just says pdp 11 what are the date > differences?? OEM? > > That's an -11/15, then. The -11/20 has a KA11 processor. So the front panel > just says "pdp-11"? > > Noel > It was an OEM system and has a Applied Color Systems, Inc. front panel. The system is missing all of the boards and backplanes. Someday we will find enough parts to put it back together. -- Michael Thompson

10 years, 3 months

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Precision Instruments PI1200 7 track tape drive, interest anyone?

by gerry＠absoluteimaging.ca

Hello Mattis, We do have interest in the 7 track drive. Is it still available? Gerry Schlosser Absolute Imaging Inc. Suite 400, 1011-1st Street S.W. Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2R 1J2 Gerry at absoluteimaging.ca 1-403-209-6846

10 years, 3 months

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Needs help w/ diagnosing and hopefully repairing of a DEC Tape Drive

by cctalk＠fahimi.net

In my continuing quest for a 9-track drive I got my hands on DEC TSZ07-CA w/ a narrow SCSI interface that was supposedly "tested working". On arrival to me I found it wrapped in a thin layer of bubble wrap w/ some broken piece of Styrofoam thrown in for "packing". As one can imagine the drive did not farewell. The outer desktop housing is cracked in multiple places but still serviceable. The drive itself came with parts rattling on the inside. I opened it up, cleaned things up a bit, and put things back together so that now the drive powers up, starts self test, and then errors out w/ a "50 - Motor Fault" error. I have checked the wires and reseated everything that I can see. I've also cleaned all the sensors, blown out the dirt, etc. etc. The problem persists so I am going to assume a component was damaged in the shipping. I ran the tests indicated in the tech manual and I get the following results: generally the supply motor starts to turn but stops even before making a full revolution. Incidentally if I manually turn the reel it turns fine and the tape securing arms open and close appropriately. When running the dx tests sometimes I can get the uptake motor to spin up at full speed and once even had the supply motor spin up at full speed. Per the tech manual if restarting the system does not make the problem go away the next step would be to replace the motor.... Google fu has not turned up much - so before I declare this a very heavy paper weight anyone have any ideas? Thanks! -Ali

10 years, 3 months

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MM11-U G235 bias/strobe jumpers

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

So, the MM11-U manual (EK-MF11U-MM-003) describes (pg. 3-12) a set of jumpers (W5-W7) on the G235 card (X and Y selection line current generators - those for the inhibit lines are on the G114) which adjust the bias current for the selection line generators. It goes on to say: "Jumpers W5-W7 are factory cut to adjust the bias current to its optimal value and they should not be changed." There's apparently a similar adjustment for the timing of the sense strobe (although I can't find the description of that circuitry). So I have two observations, based on this. The first is that the original procedure for setting those jumpers is likely lost, it's probably only in some internal DEC documentation. The manual says (Section 5.4.2, "Sense Strobe Delay and Drive Current Adjustments"): "Correction of any failure in either the sense strobe delay or drive current circuits on the G235 module that would require reconfiguration of the jumpers within these circuits should _not_ be attempted in the field. Replace the faulty module with a spare G235 module and return the faulty G235 module to the factor for repair." These cards are old, component values may have drifted, and so perhaps these might need to be adjusted - but we'll need to work out a procedures for doing so, if so. We _do_ seem to have a test to know _if_ the bias current is properly adjusted - see Section 5.3.4, "Drive Current Checks", and also for the strobe delay (Section 5.3.3, "Sense Strobe Delay Checks"). So I guess in theory, if a G235 card fails one of these tests, we could change the smallest value jumper, and see if that made things worse or better, and then loop. So perhaps all is not lost. The second is that I was worried that these boards were 'tuned' to be part of a set. E.g. one of the components, in the circuit that the W5-W7 jumpers are part of, is a thermistor on the core stack board. I couldn't tell if the jumpers were just for dealing with component variations on the G235 board, or if they also include variation elsewhere - i.e. that MM11-U's came as tuned board sets which should not be 'mix and matched'. However, that second chunk of text I quoted alleviated that concern: apparently one _can_ replace one G235 with another, without swapping out all the boards in the set. Which means that the 'mixing and matching' that has happened to these boards since they were removed from their machines (I myself am guilty of this - I pulled a couple of MM11-U sets, and didn't carefully keep the boards in their original sets) has probably not caused any problems. Noel

10 years, 3 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 20, Issue 29

by fred＠MISER.MISERNET.NET

On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > From: Murray McCullough <c.murray.mccullough at gmail.com> > Subject: Techno-savvy... > Message-ID: > <CAMvyYF-YXr8XFD4q9d1uZrOBBfUgnS=e=NTM8zSGTermw-tT2A at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > What is a techno-savvy student? Can classic computers possibly give an > answer? I used early microcomputers in my electronics classroom I > taught in the 70?s. Computers back then were rather primitive, not > much better than calculators, but did mimic human learning ? well [story cut] I liked this story, reminded me of my education in the late 80's early 90's - I was the "computer go to guy" so instead of the shiny new PS/2's the district had recently purchased they "stuck" me witth the 5150 in the back that no one wanted to use. The things I was able to make that thing do with just two floppies.... :) > > So what is a techno-savvy student now: Conversant in using a > technological gadget to enhance his/her life? Or being able to build a > computing workstation in high school? Or for simply possessing a basic [chop] Whenever this comes up in the context of today's youth (where they tell me they'll take my job one day) I just have to laugh. The vast majority (not all, as that would be unfair, and I have met some younger than me folks that know their stuff) of youth today know how to USE the device, but not necessarily how to fix it if it breaks physically or logically (I'll leave out that fixing of these tablets/phones/pads physically is usually a board swap ....). As Kirk said in Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan, "You have to learn WHY things work on a starship." Fred

10 years, 3 months

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'motherboard' etymology

by jules.richardson99＠gmail.com

Does anyone know the origins of the term 'motherboard'? I've always associated it with computers and assumed that it started appearing somewhere around 1980, with the fading out of passive backplane systems and arrival of machines which put more functionality onto a 'core' PCB into which other cards were plugged. I don't recall ever seeing it used when referencing earlier big iron, but maybe I've just missed it. I had the case lid off a Fluke digital multimeter which hails from 1972 earlier, and was surprised to see it written as part of a warning there ("ensure that all cards are securely plugged into the motherboard before applying power", or similar - unfortunately I didn't grab a photo at the time). cheers Jules

10 years, 3 months

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R: CP/M version 2.1 found

by supervinx＠libero.it

Where do you live? I guess I'm too far to help, but I'd like to have that image and look into it... -------- Messaggio originale -------- Da: David Griffith <dave at 661.org> Data:29/02/2016 09:24 (GMT+01:00) A: cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Oggetto: CP/M version 2.1 found I found an 8-inch floppy disk labeled with "CP/M V2.0 9/4/79" which is crossed out and replaced below with "CP/M V2.1 7/13/80".? I don't see mention of version 2.1 at http://www.cpm.z80.de.? Do I have something unique?? Who can I trust to image this and put the contents on the net? -- David Griffith dave at 661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

10 years, 3 months

2
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3B2 Diagnostics

by lists＠loomcom.com

Hi all, There's an image of a 3B2 Diagnostics disk floating around, but I'd like to try to confirm what model of 3B2 it was built for. I'm trying to run the "filledt" program from this diagnostics disk on my 3B2/400 emulator, and seeing some REALLY weird behavior. There are several ways to transfer control in the WE32100 CPU. You can CALL a procedure, which saves minimal state; you can GATE to a procedure, which is what interrupts to, and save more state; or you can CALLPS, which is a full process switch and saves the most state. My simulator can't run the "filledt" program because it is trying to CALL a ROM routine that expects to have been GATE-ed to. The procedure looks back in the stack for the last saved PSW, which isn't there. Sorry for the technical wall of text, but long story short: I don't know whether there is a bug in my simulator leading to this behavior (likely), or whether the 3B2 Diagnostics disk was built for the model 500 or 1000, which have totally different ROMs with different procedures at different vectors. Does anyone have a 3B2 diagnostics disk that is 100% verified to have come with a 3B2/300 or 3B2/400? -Seth -- Seth Morabito web at loomcom.com

10 years, 3 months

3
3
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MM11-U/UP core memory backplanes

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Bill Degnan > I will see what else I have available. As far as I have been able to determine, the only backplane that supports the MM11-UP is the MF11-U backplane. Does anyone know of anything else that does? Noel

10 years, 4 months

1
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Fw: new important message

by julian＠twinax.org

Hello! New message, please read <http://hydrodevices.kiev.ua/means.php?4w0> julian at twinax.org

10 years, 4 months

2
1
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CP/M version 2.1 found

by dave＠661.org

I found an 8-inch floppy disk labeled with "CP/M V2.0 9/4/79" which is crossed out and replaced below with "CP/M V2.1 7/13/80". I don't see mention of version 2.1 at http://www.cpm.z80.de. Do I have something unique? Who can I trust to image this and put the contents on the net? -- David Griffith dave at 661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

10 years, 4 months

1
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MM11-U/UP core memory backplanes

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Bill Degnan > My thought is that with my PDP 11/05 with S chassis / BA11-K. Urr, if you're talking about the backplane the CPU is in (which can hold one MM11-U), I think you're out of luck: there's no slot for the M7259 parity controller to plug into (at least, one the one in the -11/05S-10S manual). Noel

10 years, 4 months

2
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Dumb Terminal games (was Re: Looking for a small fast VAX development machine)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:38 AM, Richard Loken <rlloken at telus.net> wrote: > On Mon, 22 Feb 2016, Mouse wrote: > >>> Computer games require all you can give them [...] >> >> Only if your idea of "games" is "slick-looking realtime 3D-rendering >> games". There are lots of games that work perfectly well on 3100-class >> (and even slower) machines, such as roguelikes (rogue, larn, hack, >> etc), text adventures (ADVENT, DUNGEON, etc), phantasia, Seahaven, >> Klondike...the list is long. > > But those are Computer Games! Not computer games. It is a long time > since I have played rogue. I've been meaning to ask this question since I started cleaning up terminals this year... what are some favorites? Some of the obvious classics are: Adventure Zork (and anything else on a Zmachine) Scott Adams Adventures Wumpus Anything in Dave Ahl's "101 BASIC Computing Games" Empire Star Trek rogue/hack Larn/Ularn But what are some other favorites? I've been running a monthly "retrogaming night" at our Makerspace and so far have brought out a C-64, a PPC Mac, and an 8032 PET. I'm looking to add a PDP-8 (via Oscar Vermuelen's PiDP-8, for portability) and (at first) a simh RT-11 box and/or VAX running VMS, though I have plenty of real DEC gear - it's a matter of transport and storage space). I have a VT220 and an IBM 3101 (very VT52-like with a working terminfo entry) already on site and can add additional terminals if this becomes popular (I may drag in a VT52 just for the excuse to clean one up). I have the Commodore end pretty well covered. I'm looking for suggestions for 80x24 text games that can be played on an ANSI (VT100) terminal and especially non-ANSI (VT52 or that IBM 3101) on Unix/Linux, VMS, and RT-11. So in general, anything that uses curses or direct ANSI sequences or just spews text to a glass tty. -ethan

10 years, 4 months

16
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MM11-U/UP core memory backplanes

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Bill Degnan > Very useful, thanks. Eh, de nada - glad to help contibute to the knowledge base. > I will try this. With MM11-U gear, or MM11-L? I ask because, like I said, I still don't have 100% clarity on the MM11-L situation. I am pretty sure there are old MF11-L backplanes that can't be upgraded to parity this way (i.e. removing the jumper), and may not be upgradable to parity at all (i.e. it might take etch cuts that are 'impossible', if they are on the bottom side of the PCB). There's that jumper that should be there on non-parity units, but does not seem to be there on some older backplanes (so you can't remove it to make the backplane parity-capable); arguing that it's probably hard-wired in the etch on those older backplanes? And there seem to be a couple of pins that need to be bussed acros, for the MM11-L units to 'talk' to the parity controller. And if the parity jumper isn't there, logically those bussing etches might not be there either. So I have a little work ahead of me with an ohm-meter... Speaking of the jumper, and bussed signals: the parity board input pin that that jumper is connected to (when the parity board is not there) must be bussed to all three group locations in the MF11-L backplane, as a wired-OR of their proto-SSYN outputs. If it were daisy-chained among the three groups, you've have to put the board sets in in a specific order, no? (Otherwise a gap would lose the signal from the group(s) on the far side of the gap.) And there's nothing like that in the manual. Something else to check out on the prints and/or with a meter.. Anyway, please report back on your experiences, so if there's any useful info you pick up, we can learn from it. Noel

10 years, 4 months

2
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Looking for a small fast VAX development machine

by stark＠mit.edu

I work on Postgres and we have always claimed to support VAX machines but have the caveat "Code support exists for M32R and VAX, but these architectures are not known to have been tested recently." in our documentation. Recently I started a project to get a member in our build farm building Postgres for VAX to fill this gap. So far I've been using simh but I would be really interested in getting a decently fast VAX that doesn't take too much space (or power) to run builds on. I am currently in Europe (Dublin) but will be visiting NYC, Florida, and Montreal in the upcoming months so this is a good chance for me to pick one up without paying exorbitant shipping if there's any around. -- greg

10 years, 4 months

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Another MEM11 Status update

by ggs＠shiresoft.com

I've been simulating parts of the MEM11 FPGA since the last time I sent out an update. Most of my time has been writing various testcases and getting them to work on Xilinx's iSIM simulator. I'm making pretty good progress and have tested a fair number of the modules in the MEM11 FPGA design. I have found some bugs in my code but most of the problems have actually been in my test cases. So far I've tested (and they "work"): * Various "register" modules that I've written * Reset sequencer * Status jumpers and status LEDs * LED panel interface for the RF11 LEDs * FRAM interface * absolute and periodic timers * Hardware multiplier * DMA FIFO These all form the high level blocks that the J1 micro will interface to. My test code is actually using the registers and register addresses (MMIOs) that the J1 would use. The next blocks to test are the UART interface and all of the various aspects of the UNIBUS interface (which I've partitioned into about 6 distinct modules each of which will be tested separately). I'm still undecided with the UART as to how far to go in creating a behavioral model for the UART part itself (vs just making something that has the appropriate number of registers and can "wiggle" the interrupt line). I did create a behavioral model for the FRAMs but that was relatively easy (just some big arrays). Once I have the UNIBUS tested out, I'll figure out how to get the J1 to execute some test code and I'll re-run all of the tests on the full FPGA design with tests on the J1. I'm pretty excited as I'm not finding a lot of issues with the design. However, the UNIBUS modules may have more issues due to the relative complexity of what's going on there. Plus the test cases will be much more involved (ie I have to write tests to not only initialize the various aspects of the UNIBUS module but also generate correct UNIBUS transactions with correct timing). However, I'm getting better at writing the testcases and what I usually run into now are typo's. TTFN - Guy

10 years, 4 months

1
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Omnibook 425/430 drivers?

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hi all -- Got myself a small toy, an Omnibook 430 (486sx-25, non-backlit VGA display, runs off 4x AA batteries. fun.) It came only with the "System" Card (as opposed to the "System/Applications" Card), which has just enough to boot DOS and provide a few utilities, but nothing more. I'm working on getting Windows 3.1 running and I'd like to find an appropriate driver for the mouse, socket services, etc. I've pulled the drivers and utilities off of the System/Application card >from my Omnibook 300, and it's sort of working, but there are issues (the mouse stops working after the system goes to sleep, for example). I haven't been able to find a source for these (and HP's site has nothing, of course...) Anyone have any leads? Thanks, Josh

10 years, 4 months

1
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VAX-11/730 success!

by tmfdmike＠gmail.com

Thanks to those who helped and advised; I discovered a problematic pin on the TU58 10-pin DIP connector. With this fixed, TU58EM worked correctly and the console code loaded. The CPU passes diags as far as the RL02 test; not surprising as there's no RL controller or drive - or the special diag pack! - installed. On a point of order... is there any reason an Emulex UCxx Unibus SCSI controller wouldn't work in this machine? Anyone with any experience there? If it emulates an MSCP disk closely it should Just Work? I'm thinking a SCSI2SD solution to give me a reliable one-box system... Mike http://www.corestore.org 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

10 years, 4 months

2
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Xenosoft in New Haven CT?

by woyciesjes＠sbcglobal.net

A friend asked me if I had heard of a company called Xenosoft.... Now why does that sound familiar, in regards to this bunch here? Her daughter was contacted by a headhunter about a clerk position in New Haven CT.... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech -http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst -http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ Registered Linux user number 464583 "Computers have lots of memory but no imagination." "The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back." - from some guy on the internet.

10 years, 4 months

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MM11-U/UP core memory backplanes

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

So I have some MM11-U UNIBUS core memory cards, and in trying to locate a backplane to plug them into, I remembered a story I'd read on Guy's Web-site about some issues he'd had with parity and non-parity operation: http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/11-10/index.html and mention of the backplanes as being specific to parity and non-parity operation. So, I figured I'd better make sure what kind of MM11-U's I had, and get the correct backplane (MF11-U or MF11-UP). So I looked at the prints sets, and... the part number for the parity and non-parity backplanes is the same. WTF? Extensive further digging finally turned up this, in the "MF11-U/UP core memory system maintainence manual" (DEC-11-HMFMA-B-D, 3rd Printing, November 1974): 5.2.3 "Installation Procedure" "A backplane jumper is required from B1U1 to B2U1 for non-parity memory. This jumper should not be present for parity memory." Which makes sense. Apparently, for parity operation, SSYN is routed through the M7259 Parity Controller, and it only issues the SSYN once it has checked that the parity is OK. So, on non-parity installations, the 'proto-SSYN' from the rest of the memory is just hard-wired straight to the output to the UNIBUS (hence the jumper). Also, since the MM11-L system uses the same parity controller board (M7259), it seems a reasonable conclusion that there should be a similar jumper on the MF11-L backplane, and I have found such a jumper on some MF11-L backplanes, but I have yet to find anything in any DEC documentation about it. Speaking of MM11-L/ME11-L/MF11-L backplanes, there appear to be at least four different etch revisions (and I suspect the earliest one cannot be tweaked to run parity, since it _doesn't_ have that jumper on it). But that's for another day! Noel

10 years, 4 months

2
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Best name for PDP-11/05-10

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mattis Lind > The NC is in the BA11-D 10 1/2 inch box. It uses the H750 PSU. Odd. I have an -11/10 in a 10-1/2 box with an H750; the metal plate on the back of the box just says "PDP 11-10" (well, the '-' is actually a dot, at the level of the '-'). No 'NC'. I wonder if that's a configuration designator, not a model? {At this point, IRL, I did a whole lot of reading and looking.} I looked in some old PDP-11/05-10 price lists... (More "11/21"s... :-), and did find some -11/05 models with pretty large alphabetic model designators, e.g. "11/05-LB", but no "11/10-NC". However, the "Options and Modules List" online from June, 1974 _does_ list the "11/10-NC" - it describes it as "KD11-B, BA-11DC 10.5 INCH BOX, MM11-L, KY11-JE, CONFIG 4, 115V". There's also an "11/05-NC", the same except for a "KY11-JD" (that must be for the different number printed on the faceplate). No idea what the "CONFIG 4" means... However, the real victory came when looking in my just-acquired copy of DEC-11-H05AA-B-D.pdf. I see it also includes a "DEC-11-H05AA-B-D Supplement 1", which is the "PDP-11/05, 11/10 10 1/2 inch mounting box and power system" - and that _does_ describe the NC/ND (120V/240V). And those have a slightly different backplane (below) from the ones described in DEC-11-H05AA-A-D; so that's a fourth model of -11/05-10 backplane - and it does differentiate the -11/05N-10N (as I will call them) from the others. > I have three machines with three different backplanes. One 11/05-NC, > one 11/10 in 5.25 inch box and one 11/05-S in BA11-K. What kind of backplane does the second one have; one of the 2xMM11-L CPU backplanes (one with, and one without, an SPC slot), or the 1xMM11-L? > NC can have two MM11-L. No SPC slots. Got it. I was very confused, because the 11/05-10 manual (DEC-11-H05AA-A-D) says that the 2xMM11-L backplane has one SPC slot (the last one, IIRC). However, as noted, the -11/05N-10N apparently has a different backplane, to accomodate the M9970 dual console serial line connector card. (That backplane isn't documented in the DEC-11-H05AA-A-D -11/05-10 manual I'd been looking at - that manual doesn't show a space on the 2xMM11-L backplane for that card). However, the later "PDP-11/05, 11/10 10 1/2 inch mounting box and power system" manual _does_ describe it; and in adding a slot for the M9970, they lost the SPC slot in the 2xMM11-L backplane. So I guess that's the one you're talking about here? > From: Bill Degnan > The more useful box is the S model because the more standard enclosure > can be used for testing other UNIBUS cards more easily or than parity > RAM. ?? How is is better? The BA11-D box will hold hex cards? Or are the SPC slots in the 11/05-10S backplane MUD slots? Or is it just that the BA11-K will hold DD11-C/D backplanes, with MUD slots? (I don't know if there are any MUD backplanes that go into the BA11-D - at least without a hand-mod to the power connector.) Noel

10 years, 4 months

2
1
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PDP-11/20 vd one that just says pdp 11 what are the date differences?? OEM?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Michael Thompson > The white paper tag for the system configuration says that it was > configured on 3/3/73 with a KC11 processor That's an -11/15, then. The -11/20 has a KA11 processor. So the front panel just says "pdp-11"? Noel

10 years, 4 months

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Keys - Non-Ace was RE: ACE Key codes (xx2247 etc.)

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I'll put the list of ACE keys (and codes, as we get them) on a website on the classiccmp server for posterity. Actually, this whole thing came up in my brain due to tracking down keys for a Pr1me machine (non-ace). But I did find there is apparently a service http://key.me where you take a picture of your key with their app, and they mail you a copy (or if there is a kiosk of theirs in your area, you can do it real time there). They must have some "internal representation" of a key such that a key (any key, any size, including car keys that are those "grooves") can be stored "digitally" and downloaded. I wonder if similar art exists such that we could store "whatever is necessary" to reproduce keys other than ACE ones (rack cabinets, etc.). It would have to be something that can be presented to a locksmith to make... Just a thought... J

10 years, 4 months

3
4
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QI Series M, episode 16, Misconceptions...

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

To start with, I guess I should warn those who are not familiar with this program that the humor is not for everyone. It goes from very interesting and intellectual (the title "QI" stands for Quite Interesting) to the scatological and rather crass. Anyway, that said, in the episode referenced in the title, the host, Stephen Fry, explains Moore's Law. As he does so, he shows a number of vintage computer items borrowed from Bletchley Park. The episode is the latest one (aired last week I think) and is available on YouTube. Bill S.

10 years, 4 months

1
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Searching a sparepart 82c42pc

by marco＠familie-rauhut.eu

Hello list I am trying to restore an Wandel and Golterman Spectrum Analyzer. In the Analyzer is a 486DX2 Computer. This Computer did not save some bios settings. So i think that the CMOS ram has a failure. Did some one have a 82c42pc in dil40 package as spare part? If yes, please contact me off list. Marco

10 years, 4 months

2
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SIM4-01 and MP7 programmer cards

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

I know this is kind of obscure but I thought I'd see if anyone was interested in the program I wrote. It is for the SIM4-01 and MP7 boards. Normally these two boards would plug into a mother board called the MCB4 but I've seen a few cases on the web that they'd been wired from socket to socket. Normally they'd be used with the A0540, A0541 and A0543 EPROMs to program 1702As on the MP7 cards. The data for the proms would be sent to the SIM4 board over a serial current loop at 110 baud. It was in what Intel called a BPNF format. Each bit of the byte would be sent as either a P or N for the 8 bit data width. This extends the programming time for a 1702A from a little over 2 minutes to over 7 minutes. I still use my SIM4 setup to occasionally program one or two 1702A for friends. Recently, I was given a large number to program. I did these slowly a 7 minutes each. I soon realized I could write some 4004 code to copy the EPROMs. I'd only need to down load the first one at 7 minutes and the reset at 2 minutes each. There were some issues, the SIM4-01 only has 256 nibbles of memory, unlike the SIM4-02 that has more. There was code for the larger board in one of the manuals on bitsavers but the code was written for the larger memory. I needed to make a two pass system and it expected there to be a copy from socket. This required a complete rewrite. The code in the manual did both the 1702 and the 1702A. I really only needed the 1702A part. Non-A parts are as rare as hen's teeth. I also wanted to add some code to do a RAM test since I would use 100% of the character RAM. I wanted to do a March C test but because of size had to settle for a simple data/data complement stuck at test. I wanted every thing to fit into a single 1702A. My first pass code was over 300+ bytes. I needed to reduce down to 256 bytes. I worked on the code for about a week and finally got it down to 252 bytes. I use a simple simulator that I wrote because I don't understand the simulators on the web enough to connect things to I/O actions. I needed to simulate a master EPROM and a copy to EPROM as well as the test switch for sequencing when to put each EPROM in the sockets. There were of course status lights so a person knew what stage they were at. Anyway, I created a program I call onecopy. If anyone is interested in it, I can send them a binary or intel hex file. Dwight

10 years, 4 months

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PDP-11/20 vd one that just says pdp 11 what are the date differences?? OEM?

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > > Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 19:47:37 -0500 > From: william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: PDP-11/20 vd one that just says pdp 11 what are the date > differences?? OEM? > > are you sure its not H720 rather than 4720? H720 would be the type of > power supply from an original 11. M11 15 would seem like the OEM 11/20 > after they abandoned the 11/10 model. My hunch would be the date code is > late 1970 early 1971. > -- > @ BillDeg: > I looked at the picture of the metal serial number tag again. It is definitely 4720. The white paper tag for the system configuration says that it was configured on 3/3/73 with a KC11 processor, two DL11A serial ports, an MM11E memory, and a H720E power supply. -- Michael Thompson

10 years, 4 months

1
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cctalk Digest, Vol 20, Issue 24

by mark＠markesystems.com

From: "GerardCJAT" <gerardcjat at free.fr> Subject: Who, on this list, Owns / Collects / Plays with an HP1000 A or L series ?? > Just curious. > It seems ( at first ) that most collections stops at 21MX ( M/E/F ) era. > Am I correct in my view ? Except for the time I spent as a system manager on a couple of 2000/Access systems, in college, the A-series was my introduction to the 1000 line. I spent several years programming that - all A600s, except at the end when the A400 came out, and all in Fortran-77 under RTE-A. Industrial control systems, mostly, although I did right for in-house use a terminal control package (similar in concept, but by no means execution, to termcap), a full-screen hex file editor, a little mail system, etc.. It really seemed like you could do almost anything you wanted as far as system calls, etc. >from the high level language - shared memory (SHEMA), inter-process communication (using Class-IO), etc. I never ventured in to assembly on it. I hated the full-screen editor (it would write a full screenful of data to the 26xx terminal, which you would then locally then cause it to read it back off the screen), which is why I wrote my own WordStar-like editor. I also ended up with a really nice fully decked-out A600 system, with a couple of terminals, the built-in disk plus a 7912, plenty of memory, and an 8-port mux. Of ourse, like an idiot, I gave all that away to the Salvation Army (the wife couldn't understand its intrinsic value like I did). ~~ Mark Moulding

10 years, 4 months

1
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AIX Dev CD

by BHuntsman＠mail2.cu-portland.edu

By any strange chance, does anyone have a really old 2-CD set called "Software Development Solutions for AIX Version 4", Fifth Edition? I guess they were fairly common at one point. If anyone has one they can spare, I'll pay... Thanks! -Ben

10 years, 4 months

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OK, one more question about sending email TO an old VAX

by billdegnan＠gmail.com

Assuming I want to send an email message to an older VAX server (Process Software MultiNet V4.1 Rev A, MicroVAX 3100, VAX/VMS V5.5-2 ) that requires one to format their OUTBOUND emails like this: To: SMTP%"bill at myemail.net" How does one send mail INBOUND to this kind of VAX mail from a modern email like gmail? Is it possible to format the header somehow to get the message through? You can't simply send a message to system at microvax3100.vintagecomputer.net how would I format the email address? I could write a PHP program to format the header "wrong" for normal purposes but "right" for the VAX inbound I suppose. Any tips that don't involve creating a gateway nor changing the target VAX itself? Thanks b -- @ BillDeg: Web: vintagecomputer.net Twitter: @billdeg <https://twitter.com/billdeg> Youtube: @billdeg <https://www.youtube.com/user/billdeg> Unauthorized Bio <http://www.vintagecomputer.net/readme.cfm>

10 years, 4 months

7
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Best name for PDP-11/05-10

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Koning > FWIW, I have always heard 11/05 and 11/40 respectively. Good to know that others have the same vibe that I do. > From: Bill Degnan > putting all of that original 11/10 stuff aside :-) :-) > There is a version of the processor handbook with all 4, and there is a > version with just 11/40. I have never seen a processor handbook for > just the 11/35, 11/05, or 11/10 by itself. Good point. BTW, there's often some confusion; some people think the 11/05-10 was the second PDP-11. It wasn't, it's the fourth, and those processor handbooks confirm that. The first 11/45 one is dated 1971, the 11/40 one is 1972, and the one with the four is 1973. > I always treated the 11/05 and 11/10 as separate machines, just as much > as the 11/05 S and 11/05 NC. Can you please remind me again what the differences with the 11/05NC are? I remembered we discussed it, but I'm too lazy to dig through the list archives for it. As far as I know, the original 11/05 and original 11/10 differ only in i) the number on the front, and ii) what options were standard/offered in each; the hardware is entirely identical. > Not sure if there is an 11/10 model S or NC. There is definitely an 11/10S (again, identical internally, AFAIK, to the 05S - the DEC manual for the 05S-10S says exactly that). > From: Paul Anderson > The 11/05 and 11/10 .. use about 6 different backplanes, most of then > listed in the Unibus Troubleshooting Guide. I know of 3, will have to look there to see what else it says. > A lot of people have gotten into trouble thinking all the backplanes > were the same. Yes! I know of two for the 11/05-10: one holds one MM11-L, with four SPC slots; one holds two MM11-L's, with only a single SPC slot. The 11/05S-10S have a different backplane which holds a single MM11-U, and has 3 SPC slots. Needless to say, trying to plug an SPC board into a memory slot, etc will lead to tears (and probably smoke, too... :-) Noel

10 years, 4 months

3
2
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Helpful Features in a Debugger

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

While the debugger in question will be for the PDP-11 set of instructions executing under RT-11 (what else would I be asking about), the features needed are the same for most other environments. I am looking for helpful suggestions as to what has been found useful. Obviously, single stepping through a program is really helpful as is the display of each instruction that is executed in a manner similar to what is seen in the assembler listing. Also essential is the ability to display the values of all registers and anywhere in memory while stopped at any given instruction. A number of other ideas are as follows: (a) During a multi-step sequence, stop the sequence when the stack has more then a specified number of words of increase or decrease - each specified separately (b) Set the address range within which the stack must remain or a multi-step sequence is stopped which is similar to (a), but expressed differently (c) Set the address range within which the program counter must remain or a multi-step sequence s stopped Also possible to be checked are specified values that registers have, or don't have, which stop a multi-step sequence. Checks on memory locations can also be included. And a record of which instructions were executed by saving the program counter addresses in a circular buffer allows the user to check for unexpected execution of certain parts of the code. An evaluation of all of the above would be appreciated, especially the last two paragraphs in respect of how useful each might be since the overhead is quite CPU intensive when included any implementation. On the other hand, any time the user single steps through the code, the CPU overhead from the debugger is extremely CPU intensive in the first place. All suggestions and comments are much appreciated!!!!!!!!! Jerome Fine

10 years, 4 months

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QNX - was Re: Minix 3 vs portability

by johnwallace4＠yahoo.co.uk

[snippage for brevity, sorry] Some readers may remember (but most won't) that in 1999, QNX released a freely distributable demo containing their QNX kernel, their Photon MicroGui, an IP stack including Internet connectivity capability, and a graphical web browser which even does JavaScript. So what. Well the so what is that it all fitted on a 1.44MB floppy to run on a PC of that era. Words and pictures: e.g. http://toastytech.com/guis/qnxdemo.html A movie (again from toastytech): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_VlI6IBEJ0 Never used it myself, other than the demo, but it always sounded interesting. Maybe like VAXELN, a well kept secret. have a lot of fun John Wallace ps QNX doesn't have HELP ADVANCED WOMBAT or a newsletter called The Wombat Examiner.

10 years, 4 months

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