- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Looking for Heath H89 software and some advice

by dmb＠itasoftware.com

Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com> wrote: >Before anyone can help you, you need to find out if the >drive is soft or hard sectored. Dwight (and Tony), thanks for the info. It looks like both machines have only a hard sector (H17) controller. All the disks I have are hard sector disks. It's a bit mysterious why none of the HDOS disks will boot, but the CP/M disks will. I would suspect bit rot, but when I check out the CP/M format disks, they *all* seem to read fine. I wonder if it has to do with the drive's rotational speed? I'd like to calibrate it, but I'm afraid doing so might destroy the disk I put in there. BTW, is there any place left that sells hard sector floppy disks? Or perhaps the CP/M file system had more error correction, and thus CP/M is better able to recover flaky disks? These disks are all 20 years old now, after all... Dave

26 years, 7 months

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Amstrad CPC 6128 Floppy problem

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 1, 17:13, Peter Joules wrote: > The motor doesn't move so plan B > I have taken a known working drive out of a PCW and that doesn't spin up > either. In both cases the LED which looks through the hole in the > middle of the disk comes on and the LED on the front flashes briefly as > the machine tries to access the drive. > > I suppose the next step is to check the voltages on the supply. There > are 4 wires 1 red, one orange, and 2 black. Do you know what voltages > are supposed to be on each, and relative to what? Sounds like the +5V which powers the drive logic is OK, and the +12V for the motor is AWOL. The black wires are the 0V returns for the two supplies, and IIRC red is +5V and orange is +12V. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 7 months

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Amstrad CPC 6128 Floppy problem

by peter＠joules0.demon.co.uk

I have a CPC6128 which reports that there is no disk in the drive when I try to run a program or even |dir. I have opened the box up and it looks as if the drive isn't spinning up. Does anyone know about the internals of this (3") drive? I wonder if there is a microswitch somewhere which is perhaps not making contact. -- Regards Pete

26 years, 7 months

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Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Our local government facilities offer 8200 format to whoever asks for it, but they never offered 6250 BPI in the bureaus I occasionally visited. It's actually fact that though they offer 8200 format, that's because it's a common subset of what they use. I'm not sure that's the case with the 800NRZI or 1600PE formats they previously made available but I bought into the 8mm stuff because of the media cost. The 8500 has twice the capacity of the 8200 and the 8500C and 8505 have twice that. Currently used 8mm drives have twice what they have and the newer ones not only have doubled that on a 112 meter tape, but quadrupled the transfer rates at the same time. Now, the tape drives I see them using hold nearly 60 GB all on a cartridge of which two will fit in your shirt pocket if you're not as fat as the average American. Now, wouldn't YOU rather carry a $5 cartridge in you shirt pocket rather than 15 9-track reels, and how about buying them and storing them? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 8:06 PM Subject: Re: Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?) >Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: > >>Some years back, the GOV switched from 9-track to 8mm, using the Exabyte >>8200 as its standard. This was because you could hold what was formerly >>stored on a truckload of 9-track tape on a single cartridge which would fit >>in your pocket. > >A 2400foot tape at 6250tpi will give over 170 Meg or so, at my rough >calculations... (as in not counting the BOT, EOT and stuff like that...) >and even at 1600tpi it'll give over 43 Meg storage. An 8200 in >noncompressed cartridge will store 2500 Meg, which produces equal storage >to 15 9-tracks @ 6250tpi, or 58 tapes at 1600tpi. > >Having worked with the Gubbermint, I do know that they supported the >6250dpi datarate (if you could...) and I've carried 15 2400foot 9-track >tapes all at once when I worked in the tape library at EDS Auburn Hills >back in '89-'90. Hardly a truckload to me... or am I a *lot* stronger than >I think... ;-) > >I will admit that even back then, we used a lot more 3490 tapes, which >could store 550Meg per cartridge (and we had 8-cartridge autoloaders... >4Gig was a *lot* of storage way back then...). > >Cheers, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.

26 years, 7 months

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Data Media Conversion -- commercial interest?

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Kevin L. Anderson <kla(a)helios.augustana.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:19 PM Subject: Data Media Conversion -- commercial interest? >A quick pair of questions to the list out of curiosity: > >Do you think there is much data out there on older storage >media (paper tape, punch cards, 7-track tape, 9-track tape) >that is waiting to be converted to newer (cd-rom, 8mm) media? > >Are there commercial firms that specialize in such transfers/ >conversions of data from older media to newer media? > In Ontario, Canada there is. Inside the government there are *still* some old boxes using 9 track. We have to ship them out and get them converted every so often. I know there are quite a few places that still accept 9 track tape data(even some banks). john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com >Regards, >Kevin Anderson > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geography Department, Augustana College > Rock Island, Illinois 61201-2296, USA phone: (309) 794-7325 >e-mail: kla(a)helios.augustana.edu -or- gganderson(a)augustana.edu >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent > the administration of Augustana College. > >

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I didn't mention it, but yes, there is the three-port MMJ adapter. I have <one or two. The max ports on a MicroVAX 2000 is indeed 12. The DEC hot ???? no way. The base board does not have more than 4 usarts on it. Is that an add in board? <sheets specifically mention that if you want more ports, you must go to an <Ethernet-based product. That's how I got my first uVAX-2000 - a local law DECSERVER100/DS200 lat servers. <lot and took home the VAX. I got an RD54, a 6Mb MicroVAX, a TK50Z-FA, the <DHT32 serial adapter and an expansion box with RD53 for well under $100 (a <the same time period, a refurbed RD54 was going for $500 from the resellers My vax collection has: 3 VS3100/m10 (each has 24mb) plus two BA42 drive cases (each holds RZ56). 1 VS3100/m76SPX 32mb, RZ24, RZ25, RZ26 TLZ04 tape. 3 VS2000 (two with rd54 one with RD53 and one TK50Z) 1 BA123 based MicrovaxII (KA630) 16mb, 2 RD53, RZ56, RX50) 1 BA23 based MicrvaxII (ka630) 9mb, DHV11, TK50, RD54 All connected with 10b2 running DECnet. <I put Ultrix on it and used it for Unix practice and as a faux-terminal <server. I had this project to mount the guts in a monsterous AT case so th <there was room for both RD drives in the same package (two power supplies) <but I never finished it. I'll probably put all the stuff back in the <original boxes when I work that far down the pile. I have ultrix on RD53, not into running it, don't hate unix but it's not my first choice. <One problem I ran across with this particular box - the TK50 drive would <munch tapes - the problem turned out to be the molex connectors on the <drive motor cables. They would intermittently fail and the tape would <spin freely in the drive or wouldn't energize to retract the tape. I lost <more than one tape that way. I never did fix that drive - it's still <awaiting new connectors. My fix, skip the connectors, soldered connection. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I did not see any directory commands to tell how much disk space is <used/available. Are there any? Yes. $DIR dua0:[000000...]/size/total will give the size of each file and the total used for the entire volume DUA0:. FYI: RD52 is 30mb (VMS formatted) are you sure it's not an RD53 (71mb). There si also DIR/free <Nor did I see any FORMAT command. (Which at this point I want to AVOID, INITialize dua0: Initializes a disk, sets up basic directories. Does not however do a low level format (need diagnostics for that). <because I don't understand the Backup process or target backup media <capacity constraints. It sounds like backup clones the OS on the same driv <in "renewed" and/or "rebuilt" files ) Thre are variations on that with command switches. For example backup/image does an image backup meaning it's a block by block copy and the target needs to be at least as large as the source (multiple volumes are possible). Since your running an OLD copy of VMS you may not have what most people expect for BACKUP functionality. <According to Allison's prior post, should I assume this RD52 is a 30MB MFM <non SCSI drive? Correct. <I also have a Plessy 6600/6700 system which has a 84MB-90MB drive which I <think hangs on a DEC compatible SCSI controller. ??? no idea. <(I believe the Plessy is an LSI-11/34 clone.)The Plessy also has a Cipher <F880 1600 bpi 9-track tape drive connected. Interesting but it's not a vax. <Is there a chance I could Load the Hobby openVMS on either one, or both of <these systems in a cluster? The Plessy is not a VAX so no help there. MicrovaxI is not supported under VMS7.2. You need a much older version though the license supports any version you can find. I think you want VMS 4.7. NOTE: RD52 is way to small and a RD53(70mb Microplus 1325) is required or better yet a RD54(159mb MAXTOR 2190) if you can find one. <It seems to me the more capable system would be the Plessy with larger HD <and Tape Unit already installed, (However I have never booted it, and I <have no Idea what OS currently resides on it.) No idea, thats likely not a VAX. <I believe someone gave an earlier response that the MicroVAX I was too <small to run openVMS alone. Depends on version. The big problem with a MICROVAXI is you can only cram 4mb of ram in it and if the disk controller is older RQDX2 your limited to a RD53. You can fit a RQDX3 and that is half the size and will run a RD54. But MOST versions of VMS past V5.4 are TOO BIG for a RD53 without much tailoring and I forget the version that dropped MicrovaxI support but I think it was V5.6. If you want to run more modern version fo VMS a MicrovaxII, VS2000 or 3100 would be a better choice. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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C-64 Comms program

by a2k＠one.net

Hello, I have a lovely C-64 with 1541 disk drive and original Commodore 300 baud modem.. but no software for the modem. Is anybody willing to make me a copy of some disk with the Comms program on it? Basic utilities would also be appreciated. I've considered making a cable to write with the drive on my linux box but it's just not worth the effort. Thanks, Kevin

26 years, 7 months

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Teleco Question... More on my devious plan....

by edick＠idcomm.com

One other thing . . . you may find that the easiest way in which to do what you've described is to use a single-chip micro. There are some which even have special features to help you. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd <arfonrg(a)texas.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: Re: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... >First, Thanks to all who have helped so far... > > >I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to >use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to >interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. > >I figure an LM556 for the dial tone... A tone decoder for dialing... Not >sure an easy way to decode pulse dialing. > >As for ring... I am thinking using two charged capacitors and switching >them. That's the first method I came up with to limit the current cheaply. > >Any suggestions? I'd like to do this for less that $25.00. >---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... >######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### ># ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) >---------------------------------------- >Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > >Slackware Mailing List: >http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

>I recently got my MicroVAX I up and running it's MicroVMS 4.1 >Is there a chance I could Load the Hobby openVMS on either one, or both of >these systems in a cluster? I would be surprised. I pulled back a bloody stump the last time I mentioned the MicroVAX I to the VMS guys. My original design concept for the Firefox QBus Adapter Module involved having a dual-ported memory between the MBus and the QBus. The device drivers would copy data to and from this memory before or after performing DMA, as appropriate. This would have worked nicely and provided acceptable performance. However, I made the mistake of describing the arrangement to VMS people as "just like the MicroVAX I"; since the MicroVAX I doesn't have a scatter/gather map, the device driver has to do this to cover that lack. I was rudely informed that VMS no longer supported the MicroVAX I, and good riddance. So, the FQAM wound up being a really ugly and slow QBus adapter that worked much more like the traditional QBus adapter. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> wrote: I wrote: > > ...a MicroVAX 2000 would have many users, possibly on > > the rare and optional 8-port serial expansion > you forgot the 3 port adaptor, maybe you meant that. they are uncommon but > rare is not quite true. With that adaptor you have 3 MMJ serial ports and > the already present 25pin comm serial. I have one and it's handy. I didn't mention it, but yes, there is the three-port MMJ adapter. I have one or two. The max ports on a MicroVAX 2000 is indeed 12. The DEC hot sheets specifically mention that if you want more ports, you must go to an Ethernet-based product. That's how I got my first uVAX-2000 - a local law firm was looking at expanding their arrangement past ten users and a printer. I was brought in to spec an upgrade. When they saw the price, they switched to a Novell network (which is why my friend brought me in; he sold them the network). I was offered the system and I gave them a salvage price on it and ten VT-320's. They were horrified at the size of my offer and said that they could get a better deal somewhere else. A year later they called me back and asked if I still wanted it. I dropped the offer to lower than half of what it was previously and they accepted. Upon picking up the system, I drove across town, sold the terminals to a friend's company for 90% of the price of the lot and took home the VAX. I got an RD54, a 6Mb MicroVAX, a TK50Z-FA, the DHT32 serial adapter and an expansion box with RD53 for well under $100 (at the same time period, a refurbed RD54 was going for $500 from the resellers). I put Ultrix on it and used it for Unix practice and as a faux-terminal server. I had this project to mount the guts in a monsterous AT case so that there was room for both RD drives in the same package (two power supplies), but I never finished it. I'll probably put all the stuff back in the original boxes when I work that far down the pile. One problem I ran across with this particular box - the TK50 drive would munch tapes - the problem turned out to be the molex connectors on the drive motor cables. They would intermittently fail and the tape would spin freely in the drive or wouldn't energize to retract the tape. I lost more than one tape that way. I never did fix that drive - it's still awaiting new connectors. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> wrote: > > <I just got mail from a friend in Virginia who is saving a MicroVAX 3100-90 > <for me that they are pitching out where he works (and he'll *deliver*, too! > > Thats a nice VAX!. I forget the URL of where to find vax performance > numbers. I was told 24 VUPs. Wahoo! > <an external tape that, from his descriptions, I'm assuming is a TLZ30 or > <similar. One minor catch - they filled the disk and it won't boot. I tak > > Never hard of that problem. I suspect soemthing else has happend.

26 years, 7 months

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Antique Trader

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Someone in my office brought in a clip from "Antique Trader" dated Nov 10, 1999. Featured in this rag was "An Introduction to Collecting Computers" by our fellow collector Kevin Stumpf. The only inacurracy was in the "Lists and Newsgroups" section where it said "Send an email to *Error! Bookmark not Defined*". This was supposed to be a plug for the CC list but, got mangled before going to press :-( All in all, a very nice article... Way to go Kevin! Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> And speaking of TK50, for the record, the external SCSI version is a >TK50Z-FA (approved for the VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000) or a TK50Z-GA >(newer firmware, external SCSI ID switch). I tried a -FA on a VAX 4200 >with a KZQSA SCSI board long ago, and I use one on my VAXsta 3138 now, >and have never had a problem. Has anyone actually had a problem using a >-FA in a modern environment? (That's "modern" compared to a 2000, of >course.) I had difficulty with the MicroVAX 2000 version of the TK50 when I used it on a Firefox. When using the tape, the disks would all go into mount verify. I assumed that the problem was the tape drive didn't know about disconnect, but I never verified this. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

26 years, 7 months

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MicroVAX 2000 SCSI (was Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different))

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> I see not why not. Swap/page is just data. Booting is the only >limitation of which I'm aware. Only one way to find out. BTW, Herr Moeller also has a ROM patch which allows booting from a SCSI disk. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Yes, the first 3100's had MFM controllers, and half-height MFM drives >> (RD31, RD32) in them. They also had a 34-pin floppy interface to a >> non-SCSI RX23. Then came models that had *both* MFM and SCSI interfaces. >> The latest ones had two SCSI interfaces, and used a SCSI-fied RX23 in >> them. > I've never seen anything more primitive than the ST506/SCSI >controller. Was there really a non-SCSI board before that? Yes. > Even the >earliest production ST506/SCSI boards in my experience lacked some or >all of the 20- and 34-pin connectors for the ST506 disks The non-SCSI disk controller is a ST506/SCSI board unpopulated in the *other* direction - it lacks the SCSI chip and connectors, but has the ST506 parts. There's a plain metal flange on the rear where the external SCSI connector would be. There are also, of course, 3100's without any disk controller in them at all. > The potential of DUA0 and DUA1 explains why the RX23 floppy is DUA2. >I always assumed that DUA3 would be the other half of an RX50, if it >were ever supported, but that was only an assumption. The firmware on >my 3100 systems seemed bewildered by an RX33, so I never bothered trying >an RX50. I never got around to trying that particular combination (though I did have a RX50 hooked to a VS2000 - it worked fine under VMS, but evidently the built-in firmware didn't like it.) >> True, the RX23 doesn't have a lot of use. You can't even (officially) >> build a standalone backup kit on it. > I modified the V6.2 STABACKIT to build a kit on (three) RX23 >floppies, but some older firmware couldn't handle booting from them. >V1.5 is good, possibly V1.4 also, as I recall. Faster booting than from >a TK50. (Toggle switches would be _about_ as fast as a TK50.) Even faster, build standalone backup on a hard drive :-). If you want to see slow, remember the process of building standalone backup on TU58's on a 11/750 or 11/730? We're talking most of a *day*! No wonder we've tried to erase those times from our memories :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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MicroVAX 2000 SCSI (was Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Hmmm, what if said 2000 is part of a cluster and boots off a cluster disk <> would you then be able to use a SCSI disk as a swap disk? < < I see not why not. Swap/page is just data. Booting is the only <limitation of which I'm aware. Only one way to find out. Doing that you would MOP boot from a cluster member then install the extendded page and swap for the local disk. If all your doing is that then any drive over 20mb (but not ST225 or 251 as they are slow!) will do in the MFM slot. In the past I've found RD52s (quantum D540 30mb) are a good choice for that service as they are fast and bullet proof. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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MicroVAX 2000 SCSI (was Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> --- sms(a)antinode.org wrote: <> > Herr Moeller's PK2K SCSI port driver for the 2000 should help total sto <> > but the firmware still needs an RDxx from which to boo < <Hmmm, what if said 2000 is part of a cluster and boots off a cluster disk, <would you then be able to use a SCSI disk as a swap disk? As time <progresses such a configuration would probably be the best to keep 2000's <running. that is only one possible configuration. Anyine that know MV2000 knows a small SCSI disk will fit in the area above the PS. that and a RD53/54 you have a very complete system. Or you can use any MFM for local swap and page with NIcluster (LAVC). A good use for the VS2000 in small environments with networking is modem gateway, Print server or terminal server to anyother node. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I just got mail from a friend in Virginia who is saving a MicroVAX 3100-90 <for me that they are pitching out where he works (and he'll *deliver*, too! Thats a nice VAX!. I forget the URL of where to find vax performance numbers. <an external tape that, from his descriptions, I'm assuming is a TLZ30 or <similar. One minor catch - they filled the disk and it won't boot. I tak Never hard of that problem. I suspect soemthing else has happend. <it I can conversational-boot it and use the console as the startup file to <wrest control from the system in the earliest stages, then, at least, purg Likely you can assuming the disk is even there at all. If all else fails drop in a 200-400mb scsi drive and install VMS 7.2 (hobby license) and go on that. Once up you can mount the offending drive and see. <Did I miss anything? Is there a publish procedure for recovering from tota <full disks, or will I have to go back to the manuals and remember how to d Never seen that failure. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The idea was that a VAX*station* would have a primary user and would only <get a two user license (one for the serial port on the back, presumably <for emergencies) and a MicroVAX 2000 would have many users, possibly on <the rare and optional 8-port serial expansion, possibly on a terminal serve <This way, you could get more money for the same software on the assumption <that more potential users means more latitude to charge for software. your forgot the 3 port adaptor, maybe you meant that. they are uncommon but rare is not quite true. With that adaptor you have 3 MMJ serial ports and the already present 25pin comm serial. I have one and it's handy. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Slashdot has a link to an MSNBC story about the Russians restarting reactor #3 at the Chernobyl plant in the Ukraine. They need the power but can't afford a new reactor. Sounds like a fun place to work, eh? ^_^ -------

26 years, 7 months

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MicroVAX 2000 SCSI (was Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different))

by sms＠antinode.org

From: healyzh(a)aracnet.com > > --- sms(a)antinode.org wrote: > > > Herr Moeller's PK2K SCSI port driver for the 2000 should help total > > > storage, but the firmware still needs an RDxx from which to boot > > Hmmm, what if said 2000 is part of a cluster and boots off a cluster disk, > would you then be able to use a SCSI disk as a swap disk? I see not why not. Swap/page is just data. Booting is the only limitation of which I'm aware. Only one way to find out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-645-9249 (voice, home) 1630 Marshall Avenue #8 (+1) 612-754-2636 (voice, work) Saint Paul MN 55104-6225 (+1) 612-754-6302 (facsimile, work) sms(a)antinode.org sms(a)provis.com (work)

26 years, 7 months

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MicroVAX 2000 SCSI (was Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different))

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- sms(a)antinode.org wrote: > Herr Moeller's PK2K SCSI port driver for the 2000 should help total storage, > but the firmware still needs an RDxx from which to boo Ah ha! A *real* reference to the elusive SCSI driver. Is there a web page for this? Thanks, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

I just got mail from a friend in Virginia who is saving a MicroVAX 3100-90 for me that they are pitching out where he works (and he'll *deliver*, too!) Where can I go to learn more about specific models of 3100s? He mentions that it has either 64 or 128Mb of RAM, a 500Mb and 1Gb scsi disk, DAT and an external tape that, from his descriptions, I'm assuming is a TLZ30 or similar. One minor catch - they filled the disk and it won't boot. I take it I can conversational-boot it and use the console as the startup file to wrest control from the system in the earliest stages, then, at least, purge the SYS$MANAGER area of old log files to leave enough room to perform a full boot (and clear the SYSTEM password while I'm at it ;-) Did I miss anything? Is there a publish procedure for recovering from totally full disks, or will I have to go back to the manuals and remember how to do it from scratch? I've been away from VMS for the past couple of years. All I've really done recently is log on and run some ancient DCL scripts. Now back in the old days, I used to assemble 11/730's from piles of parts, reconstruct console tapes, write system programs and devices drivers, etc., but never with anything newer than an 8530. Our "main" machines were an 11/750 w/12Mb RAM, SI9900, Fuji Eagle, RA81, etc., etc. and an 8300 w/16Mb RAM, KDB50, RA81, etc. No Ethernet; all 56Kb sync serial DECnet. :-P Cheers, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

2
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MicroVAX 2000 SCSI (was Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different))

by sms＠antinode.org

From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> > > Herr Moeller's PK2K SCSI port driver for the 2000 should help total storage, > > but the firmware still needs an RDxx from which to boo > Ah ha! A *real* reference to the elusive SCSI driver. Is there a web page > for this? Try "http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/pk2k/". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-645-9249 (voice, home) 1630 Marshall Avenue #8 (+1) 612-754-2636 (voice, work) Saint Paul MN 55104-6225 (+1) 612-754-6302 (facsimile, work) sms(a)antinode.org sms(a)provis.com (work)

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)

by ndiablo＠diablonet.net

I hooked up a uVAX 2000/VS 2000 issue external TK50-Z to my VS 3100 once to build a OpenVMS 7.2 hobbyist standalone backup kit and it worked great (to my pleasant surprise... wasn't sure if it would or not :) -Sean Caron (root(a)diablonet.net)

26 years, 7 months

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The good old days of tape players

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

Someone wrote: > >stuff to get it working. Those were the days and I kind of miss it. > >Those golden days were great. That got me to think if there was a way to > >hook up a tape player (cassette) to an IBMPC to mimick it. Has anyone > >tried this..... Zane replied: > Wait a minute.... How do people read stuff like VIC-20 cassette tapes into > the computer to use in emulators? That's what you need to look into if you > want to try something like this. Speaking for the Timex/Sinclair community, most of us use sound-card utilities whereby we can load or save programs and/or data using a cassette recorder. For the zx81, there is actually a utility which sends an audio signal out the PC's parallel port, to be directly loaded into a zx81 or saved on tape for use later. If you wish, I could direct you to the authors of these utilities -- one of them may be interested in helping you solve this problem. Regards, Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 7 months

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Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's no secret that Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com previously has uttered: -----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 9:44 PM Subject: Re: Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?) >Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: > >>Our local government facilities offer 8200 format to whoever asks for it, >>but they never offered 6250 BPI in the bureaus I occasionally visited. > >We sent off 6250dpi tapes quite often... I suppose it's a regional thing. > >>The 8500 has twice the capacity of >>the 8200 and the 8500C and 8505 have twice that. > >On the 8505 / 8500C - your doubled capacity depends on the compression >ratio... if you achieve a 2:1 compression, you have indeed doubled your >storage. On the 8505's I worked on, I normally achieved 1.7:1. > >> Currently used 8mm drives >>have twice what they have and the newer ones not only have doubled that on a >>112 meter tape, but quadrupled the transfer rates at the same time. Now, >>the tape drives I see them using hold nearly 60 GB all on a cartridge of >>which two will fit in your shirt pocket if you're not as fat as the average >>American. > >Well, that limits me to one... assuming that I'm as fat as an average >American... (how fat is the average American???) Anywho, I'm ~25lb >overweight thanks to 2 heart attacks & I've not made time to exercise. Is >that average? YES >>Now, wouldn't YOU rather carry a $5 cartridge in you shirt pocket rather >>than 15 9-track reels, and how about buying them and storing them? > >Actually, between the two, I'd rather have the 15 9-trackers... they're >cool. Of course, I'd rather have 3490 cartridges & drive... they're even >more cool. I can't *afford* the drives (new) and there's no used ones about >to scavange / rescue / trade for, so 'll take what I can get... > >I'm not disputing the fact that the 8200's are superior / cheaper / >whatever... I've worked with those, the 8505's pretty extensively & quite a >few 4mm drives as well (just picked one up for myself to play with - it's a >tra de...) I just disputed that an 8200 cart. held a "truckload" of 9-trackers. I was, when I made the original remark, grossly hyperbolizing, but in the spirit of "Why the h*ll didn't they do that much sooner?" My 8505XL routinely gets about the 1.7x compression from hardware compression and somewhat improves the already-compressed data it gets from the old backup software. One volume, mostly text, gets bout 2.2x, though. My 160 meter tapes are adequate for a nominally 15GB system backup. I find that so long as I (or my clients) have backup devices which allow the entire backup set to be recorded on a single element of the medium in question, they have good backups whenever they're needed. With the ones requiring manual media shuffling, all bets are off. Dick >Prost, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.

26 years, 7 months

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Teleco Question...

by edick＠idcomm.com

There's actually a more precise spec for the tip and ring voltages. If you really want it, I can look up my old textbooks and give it to you, but first of all, the tip-ring (battery) voltage is -48 volts, where tip is close to ground. The ring voltage is a somewhat larger AC voltage, normally at about 20 Hz centered about RING such that there's about an 80-volt positive going pulse with respect to tip, but symmetical about RING. The actual voltage can vary quite a bit, but at the ends, where it enters your house, tip is AC referenced to earth. That's probably enough info for most purposes. IIRC, the off-hook AC signal (speech) is about 4-8 volts into 600 ohms. That's not terribly precise, but if you need better, I can dig out some references. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Daniel T. Burrows <dburrows(a)netpath.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Teleco Question... > > >Q1: Can anyone tell me the two tone that make up dial tone? >330 and 440 IIRC >Dan >Q2: What's the ring voltage (p-p) and frequency? 90Vpp? 10cyc? >90v 20 hz >Q3: What's the off hook and on hook line Voltage? 9VDC and 45VDC? >about right IIRC > >Dan >

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com> wrote: > There are some substantial disadvantages to the 2000s. The biggest is they > want MFM disks, which are hard to find these days. 3100s are SCSI machines. And, MFM drives never got above ~150Mb. I have several RD54's just to keep my MV2000's alive. > Er. Let me qualify that and say VaxStation 2000s want MFM drives. Don't > know about MicroVax 2000s. Same thing. The hardware internally is identical. The difference is a jumper to tell the hardware whether to use the framebuffer or not. From an OS standpoint, moving the jumper gives a different model number, IIRC. (KA-610 vs KA-630 or something like that, I forget the exact numbers). The idea was that a VAX*station* would have a primary user and would only get a two user license (one for the serial port on the back, presumably for emergencies) and a MicroVAX 2000 would have many users, possibly on the rare and optional 8-port serial expansion, possibly on a terminal server. This way, you could get more money for the same software on the assumption that more potential users means more latitude to charge for software. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

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Teleco Question...

by dburrows＠netpath.net

Q1: Can anyone tell me the two tone that make up dial tone? 330 and 440 IIRC Dan Q2: What's the ring voltage (p-p) and frequency? 90Vpp? 10cyc? 90v 20 hz Q3: What's the off hook and on hook line Voltage? 9VDC and 45VDC? about right IIRC Dan

26 years, 7 months

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VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)

by sms＠antinode.org

From: Tim Shoppa shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > >Didn't the very first 3100's have MFM controllers? I could have sworn that > >I've heard that they did, but I've never seen such a beast. > Yes, the first 3100's had MFM controllers, and half-height MFM drives > (RD31, RD32) in them. They also had a 34-pin floppy interface to a > non-SCSI RX23. Then came models that had *both* MFM and SCSI interfaces. > The latest ones had two SCSI interfaces, and used a SCSI-fied RX23 in > them. I've never seen anything more primitive than the ST506/SCSI controller. Was there really a non-SCSI board before that? Even the earliest production ST506/SCSI boards in my experience lacked some or all of the 20- and 34-pin connectors for the ST506 disks, but after I added the connectors, I got an RD54 to work with one (for entertainment only). The TEST 7x formatter looked to be on a multi-day jaunt when I aborted it, but otherwise it was swell. Later, I found some (presumably later production) ST506/SCSI boards which were missing a few 8-pin DIP IC's and a few passive parts, no doubt saving a few dollars, but leaving only the floppy interface intact. The potential of DUA0 and DUA1 explains why the RX23 floppy is DUA2. I always assumed that DUA3 would be the other half of an RX50, if it were ever supported, but that was only an assumption. The firmware on my 3100 systems seemed bewildered by an RX33, so I never bothered trying an RX50. > True, the RX23 doesn't have a lot of use. You can't even (officially) > build a standalone backup kit on it. I modified the V6.2 STABACKIT to build a kit on (three) RX23 floppies, but some older firmware couldn't handle booting from them. V1.5 is good, possibly V1.4 also, as I recall. Faster booting than from a TK50. (Toggle switches would be _about_ as fast as a TK50.) And speaking of TK50, for the record, the external SCSI version is a TK50Z-FA (approved for the VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000) or a TK50Z-GA (newer firmware, external SCSI ID switch). I tried a -FA on a VAX 4200 with a KZQSA SCSI board long ago, and I use one on my VAXsta 3138 now, and have never had a problem. Has anyone actually had a problem using a -FA in a modern environment? (That's "modern" compared to a 2000, of course.) As for the smallest VAX, I'd vote for the VAXstation 3100 (model 38, WS42-xx, is faster than the original model 30, VS42-xx), as the smallest, practical, bargain system. A minimal 2000 is smaller, but add an external disk drive and the 2000 is bigger, and any 3100 with even one decent SCSI disk beats it easily for storage and speed. (It's not hard to beat two RD54 drives, unless all you have is RD53 drives.) Herr Moeller's PK2K SCSI port driver for the 2000 should help total storage, but the firmware still needs an RDxx from which to boot (or an RX33 for Standalone BACKUP). The 3100 permits more memory and better graphics, too. I'm not throwing away my 2000, but I wouldn't start with one today, unless it fell on me (as my first one did). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-645-9249 (voice, home) 1630 Marshall Avenue #8 (+1) 612-754-2636 (voice, work) Saint Paul MN 55104-6225 (+1) 612-754-6302 (facsimile, work) sms(a)antinode.org sms(a)provis.com (work)

26 years, 7 months

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dammit...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Didn't the very first 3100's have MFM controllers? I could have sworn tha <I've heard that they did, but I've never seen such a beast. Yes they did... SCSI to MFM bridges. <One with a TLZ30 (Tape drive for TK50's) or a CD-ROM would be nice. Mine <has the RX23, and I quite honestly have no idea what use the floppy drive <is. Well a SCSI Cdrom is easy enough to find all it has to do is support variable length block sizes, many do. TK50GAs (or is it FZs) work with them too as do TLZ04s, a slew of DLTs and SCSI tapes. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Some years back, the GOV switched from 9-track to 8mm, using the Exabyte 8200 as its standard. This was because you could hold what was formerly stored on a truckload of 9-track tape on a single cartridge which would fit in your pocket. Since the GOV also loved DEC, I'd be very surprised to learn that there's no practical implementation available of the EXB8200 on a DEC machine. These drives are simple SCSI-1 and should work like any other tape drive. There are probably some special hoops, DEC-isms, you have to jump through in order to get it all to work, but I'll bet it's been done. Those 8mm cartridges, BTW, cost less than almost any other medium. There are larger-capacity drives, e.g. Exabyte 8205, 8500, 8500C, 8505, all of which are SCSI-II, which have faster transfer rates and, in the case of th 8505xl, 8505, and 8500C, not to mention the libraries which host one or more of these drives, they support hardware compression as well. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?) > >>IMHO, it makes little sense to retain media for washing-machine-sized >>disk drives if you don't retain the drives and maintain them in order to >>retain the value of the media. Hindsight is always 20/20, but wouldn't >>it make sense to archive data/software on an archival medium, likely, we >>hope, to remain useable over time, rather than to store it on what's >>intended for on-line storage, and is likely to become obsolete within a >>couple of years of when it was developed? > >Unless there is no equivalent... I've got the exact problem with the >DECsystem-10 I got earlier this year... it came with two RP06 drives. >They are 3-phase drives. We don't yet have three phase power (or a >close approximation of it), so cannot run the drives. Without the >drives, we cannot even load the microcode for the machine, so it is >a very large paper-weight. > >I've been looking of a non-three-phase replacement for the drives, but >we still would need three-phase to get the data off the disks I have. > >We have, however, been getting all the data off the tapes so as not >to lose it. > >It would be great if there was a massbus interface for a more recent >tape drive, and the same for a disk... it would be neat to be able to >have a DAT tape acting like a TU77 or something supported by the machine, >and a couple of SCSI or even IDE disks acting as RM03 or RP06 disks... > >(anyone know of any? Anyone up for the challenge of designing one?) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > >

26 years, 7 months

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dammit...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

><Didn't the very first 3100's have MFM controllers? I could have sworn tha ><I've heard that they did, but I've never seen such a beast. > >Yes they did... SCSI to MFM bridges. My 3100's with MFM drive connectors inside them *do not* have a SCSI to MFM bridge controller. If you hook up a RD32, it shows up to VMS as DUA0:, not as a SCSI device. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax 6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by edick＠idcomm.com

This is starting to resemble an argument for putting things on eBay before scrapping them. If they're priceless, then someone will at least attempt to buy them for somewhat less than that implies. If nobody wants 'em badly enough to pay the packing, shipping, and associated costs, plus the scrap value then, since it's too late to leave 'em inthe scrapyard, they need to be disposed of in some way, don't they? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigo Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 2:00 AM Subject: Re: LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax 6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???) > > You sound like someone who burns paintings just because you >don't have space to store them, regardless from being priceless >Picasso's... It's not very hard to understand the following facts: > - the majority of this list subscribers are collectors, which >means that they like collecting certain stuff. > - everyone understands the difference between "storing" and >"collecting". It's impossible to prevent all minis from the planet >from being destroyed -- store all obsolete minis. However, collectors >are available to save a necessarily small percentage from destruction, >by collecting them. They do this because they *love* it. > - the average storage capacity of collectors is usually not >very high. Not everyone is able to own a VAX, and those who are, can't >hold more than 1-2 of such machines. Now compare this storage capacity >with the rate you get minis (you said about 40-50 a year). > - you can't expect to come here saying "I crush 40 minis a >year" without people becoming upset. I guess it breaks the heart of >every collector (at least it breaks mine...). > > Cheers, > > >-- > >*** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> >*** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda >*** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: >*** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa >*** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL >*** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

26 years, 7 months

4
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dammit...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> >So. What's the *smallest* vax-11 (or other machine) that'll run vms? <> >Wait... <> <> MicroVAX 2000. Slow by today's standards, but the size of a lunchbox a <> *very* cheap. <> <> -Dave McGuire <There are some substantial disadvantages to the 2000s. The biggest is they <MFM disks, which are hard to find these days. 3100s are SCSI machines. True... to a point there are SCSI drivers for the MV2000 for VMS as there is a SCSI bus in it! To be exacting the SCSI bus in complete but the boot roms will only recognize the oddball TK50. There is a fellow that developed a SCSI drive so VMS can also talk to SCSI drives. Also the MFM controller will talk to RX33 floppy, and more than one RDxx. ALL MV/VS3100s are SCSI some may have the TLZ30 tape or RX23 floppy in them. <Er. Let me qualify that and say VaxStation 2000s want MFM drives. Don't k <about MicroVax 2000s. Same silly box. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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dammit...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> ALL MV/VS3100s are SCSI some may have the TLZ30 tape or RX23 floppy in them. >> >Didn't the very first 3100's have MFM controllers? I could have sworn that >I've heard that they did, but I've never seen such a beast. Yes, the first 3100's had MFM controllers, and half-height MFM drives (RD31, RD32) in them. They also had a 34-pin floppy interface to a non-SCSI RX23. Then came models that had *both* MFM and SCSI interfaces. The latest ones had two SCSI interfaces, and used a SCSI-fied RX23 in them. >One with a TLZ30 (Tape drive for TK50's) or a CD-ROM would be nice. Mine >has the RX23, and I quite honestly have no idea what use the floppy drive >is. True, the RX23 doesn't have a lot of use. You can't even (officially) build a standalone backup kit on it. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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Teleco Question...

by mallison＠konnections.com

Rather than spinning this on this list. Why not check out the 2600 web sight. I don't know what it is, maybe www.2600.com. They'll know all these answers and it will be on topic for them... -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd <arfonrg(a)texas.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 5:53 PM Subject: Teleco Question... >Q1: Can anyone tell me the two tone that make up dial tone? > >Q2: What's the ring voltage (p-p) and frequency? 90Vpp? 10cyc? > >Q3: What's the off hook and on hook line Voltage? 9VDC and 45VDC? >---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... >######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### ># ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) >---------------------------------------- >Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > >Slackware Mailing List: >http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html >

26 years, 7 months

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dammit...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<So. What's the *smallest* vax-11 (or other machine) that'll run vms? <Wait... Depending on what you mean by smallest (most minimal archetecture | physically smallest) the answer would be MicrovaxI and MV2000. <Actually, if someone wants to save me before heading down this *enticing* <path. I'll trade all of the listed books for a 'First Book ok Kim' Wouldn't mind having that one! or the vax books. ;) Allison

26 years, 7 months

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Fujitsu Update

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

I made a full list and here it is (with a picture of the system): F6470A (2) - tape cartridge system, 16 carts @ 400MB each M770 - main supercomputer(s) (looks like 4 cabinets), at least 100MB RAM, MSP/EX , and XSP operating system (other operating systems as well). No idea of speed, bus width, anything else... I do know both mainframes) were connected together through a high speed data channel. There seems to be some SUN 4-490 front-end computers. No idea on any more than that.-- they look nice. F1751E (2 of them) - 60? tapes X 400MB = huge tape cartridge unit. Total storage ???? There are also some memory expanders?? a high speed 2000?LPM printer, disk RAID arrays (5GB each). I have found a few sites still using this supercomputer, one as a meteorological satellite data processing system, an engineering lab,.... Here is a picture of what the system looks like (I will put up real pictures soon): http://www.pdp8.com/fujitsu.gif The vax 6000 has: RA81 - 3 units RA81,RA82,RA82 TA81,TU81E HSC 50-AA Vax 6000-610 SA600 HSC-50 and.... 1 pallet of power cords and system cables. 1 Omnigraphic Recorder. - 11 X 17" XY chart recorder. 2000CE

26 years, 7 months

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PDP 11/23 PLUS needs saving

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Well, it's sort of 'saved' already; this machine is sitting in my garage. But, I'm planning a move, and it HAS to go sometime sooner rather than later. And if it comes to it, 'later' might mean that it goes to the TIP. That would be a shame. Unit looks in good condition, and had the heads professionally parked before I grabbed it. Has a floppy drive (RD-50?) and some tapes, too. I've never tried powering it. Unit is in Sydney (Australia), and I'm sure hoping somebody wants it. I'd feel rather bad seeing it junked. Totally free, of course. A -- Andrew Davie adavie(a)mad.scientist.com // adavie(a)comcen.com.au // adavie(a)bde.com.au Museum of Soviet Calculators http://members.xoom.com/adavie/soviet.html Slide Rule Trading Post http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/

26 years, 7 months

3
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dammit...

by dogas＠leading.net

Vaxen have not been my gig but today I found several books. VAX Architecture Reference Manual,VAXclusters, Computer Programming and Architecture: The VAX-11, A Gentle Introduction to the VAX System, The VAX Book, VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures, and Introduction toVAX/VMS. This can only mean one thing. ;) Actually, I've started reading VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures. Now I know what a real operating system is. Alas. So. What's the *smallest* vax-11 (or other machine) that'll run vms? Wait... Actually, if someone wants to save me before heading down this *enticing* path. I'll trade all of the listed books for a 'First Book ok Kim' Cheers all, - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

26 years, 7 months

6
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dammit...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Actually, I've started reading VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures. Now I >know what a real operating system is. Alas. > >So. What's the *smallest* vax-11 (or other machine) that'll run vms? The smallest machine that'll run VMS is the "Tadpole" laptop, an Alpha. You won't find them for free in junkpiles yet, at least! They're highly in demand by those who want to demo Alpha/VMS software at trade shows, customer sites, etc. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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IGS Company Confidental manual

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi to all you DEC-heads! I recently picked up a big pile of DEC manuals. One of the things that I found among them is a manual for IGOR (Interactive Graphic Operating Resource) Internal Operations. It was published by Interactive Graphic Systems in 1981 and is marked "Company Confidental". This is almost certainly for use on a VAX. Does anyone know weather IGS or IGOR is still around? Any thoughts about weather I should destroy this manual, keep it, sell it or ? Joe

26 years, 7 months

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Needed: 1 IBM 8" alignment disk.

by edick＠idcomm.com

If the drive is "intelligent" enough to perform writes, i.e. if it has a local data buffer, then it's likely to have a master oscillator. Since it has adjustments for "window" (probably related to FM clock recovery) and "gap" probably limiting the write-turn-on/off gap lengths, i.e. the capture window, allowing it to determine when it failed to "see" and address mark, I'd suspect that those have gotten tweaked out. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 2:17 PM Subject: Re: Needed: 1 IBM 8" alignment disk. >> >They'll be a master clock, probably also used for writing. Check this >> >with a 'scope or frequency counter. If it's incorrect, find out why. >> > >> >> Generally, there isn't a master clock. Among the drives I've been working > >Not on a raw drive, sure. But this is a drive/controller combination, and >it appears that at least some faults are in the controller section. > >Somebody's going to prove me wrong, but I've never seen a _controller_ >without some kind of master clock. > >> on over the past months, none had onboard oscillators with the exception of >> the microprocessor-controlled Mitsubishi. That's why there are one-shots >> and the like. The writing is accomplished by using both outputs from a >> flipflop which is toggled by every positive edge on the data stream which is >> generated on the controller. >> > >Yep, sure for a plain drive.... >[And I agree with the PLL comments that I've deleted -- very few _drives_ >have a clock recovery PLL, but a lot of controllers do!] > >-tony >

26 years, 7 months

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Needed: 1 IBM 8" alignment disk.

by edick＠idcomm.com

Please see embedded remarks below. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 2:16 PM Subject: Re: Needed: 1 IBM 8" alignment disk. >> It's search algorithm is really funny too: >> >> Read Sector <------------- >> If requested Sector <> address then | >> If CRC not okay then ---------------------| >> It's not as odd as you may think. The CRC is for the ID field, so it's got to keep trying to read the ID before it can determine whether it should read the following data field. The controller doesn't have a fixed number of retries, since the infinite loop, in the designers' opinion, allowed you to poke around with your instruments looking for the problem, and is probably as good as any other alternative. Remember, there's a CRC field after the ID field, AND one after the data field. They both must pass check before you get a valid sector. This behavior is, however, quite consistent with a misadjusted PLL, or whatever other mechanism they're using to extract the clock e.g. one-shots. If someone has fiddled with the pots on the device, all bets are off as to its ability to lock on the data. Since the data is synchronized differently on every sector, it should be easy enough to determine whether lock occurs just by triggering on the data stream while observing the PLL's oscillator. Each sector should show a discrete and easily visible acquisition window. Of course, that won't be the case with a naked but formatted diskette, since its data and ID fields were written in one fell swoop, with no asynchronism between sectors. However, if you format a new diskette on some OTHER and WORKING compatible machine, writing a file to it will be a sector-by-sector operation which will ostensibly have at least a short transient of phase change reflecting the difference in phase between the relative position of the diskette during formatting and during writing not to mention the minor speed variations. In any case, you should, with your oscilloscope set up properly, be able to watch a consisten acquisition of the data for each sector. If you're not getting that, which is what I suspect, then your error lies in that, the most basic task of a disk interface, without which NOTHING else having to do with data transfer will work properly. >> (you get the idea.. and infinite loop for most errors) > >Well, assuming it's getting into that loop, there's something to look at. >Does it find a sector address? Does it match (and should it match -- >don't overlook a possible comparator problem). Does the CRC match? Should >it? (again, don't overlook a possible problem with the logic here). > >Basically, you're in a loop (presumably stuck in some state(s) of a state >machine). You should be thinking about the following : > >What signals can get it out of those states? >Are they ever asserted? > >What events would cause them to be asserted? >Do those events ever occur? >What about the logic that detects said events and turns them into signals? > >-tony >

26 years, 7 months

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Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by mbg＠world.std.com

>IMHO, it makes little sense to retain media for washing-machine-sized >disk drives if you don't retain the drives and maintain them in order to >retain the value of the media. Hindsight is always 20/20, but wouldn't >it make sense to archive data/software on an archival medium, likely, we >hope, to remain useable over time, rather than to store it on what's >intended for on-line storage, and is likely to become obsolete within a >couple of years of when it was developed? Unless there is no equivalent... I've got the exact problem with the DECsystem-10 I got earlier this year... it came with two RP06 drives. They are 3-phase drives. We don't yet have three phase power (or a close approximation of it), so cannot run the drives. Without the drives, we cannot even load the microcode for the machine, so it is a very large paper-weight. I've been looking of a non-three-phase replacement for the drives, but we still would need three-phase to get the data off the disks I have. We have, however, been getting all the data off the tapes so as not to lose it. It would be great if there was a massbus interface for a more recent tape drive, and the same for a disk... it would be neat to be able to have a DAT tape acting like a TU77 or something supported by the machine, and a couple of SCSI or even IDE disks acting as RM03 or RP06 disks... (anyone know of any? Anyone up for the challenge of designing one?) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 7 months

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Meshna

by dirtworks＠globalnetisp.net

Hi, My name is John Meshna. The son of the late John J. Meshn Jr., the Surplus mogel. I saw your post. I'm flattered that my father's memory lives on. We closed the company around 1988. He died in 1982. Thanks for keeping his memory alive. John > Home | Collection > > > > Software | Mailing Lists > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] > > Re: Keyboards > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > * To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > * Subject: Re: Keyboards > * From: Frank McConnell <fmc(a)reanimators.org> > * Date: 06 Dec 1998 15:57:48 -0800 > * In-Reply-To: Stephen Dauphin's message of Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:13:21 -0500 (EST) > * References: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.981205235650.3615A-100000(a)osfn.org> > * Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > * Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Stephen Dauphin <ai705(a)osfn.org> writes: > > On a related note, wasn't there a electronics surplus dealer of some > > sort, perhaps based in Massachusetts, called "Meshna"? I'm wondering if > > someone knows whether they are still in business. Any web search turns > > up nothing. > > Here's info from one of their 1988 catalogs: > > John J. Meshna Jr., Inc. > 19 Allerton Street > Lynn, MA 01904 > Tel: (617) 595-2275 > > -Frank McConnell > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > * References: > o Re: Keyboards > + From: Stephen Dauphin <ai705(a)osfn.org> > > * Prev by Date: Scanning Fiche > * Next by Date: Re: x86 OS's > * Prev by thread: Re: Keyboards > * Next by thread: Re: Keyboards > * Index(es): > o Date > o Thread > > > > > Created by: Kevan Heydon on Monday, 07-Dec-1998 15:10:16 PST

26 years, 7 months

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Frame buffer PMAGB-BA for DECstation

by hofer＠wgh.ch

Hello, I am looking for an inexpensive framebuffer PMAGB-BA for a Personal DECstation 5000/20. Some advices about good sources of DEC surplus ? Regards. J.-P. Hofer

26 years, 7 months

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test-drb