28 Nov
1999
28 Nov
'99
5:24 a.m.
IMHO, it makes little sense to retain media for
washing-machine-sized
disk drives if you don't retain the drives and maintain them in order to
retain the value of the media. Hindsight is always 20/20, but wouldn't
it make sense to archive data/software on an archival medium, likely, we
hope, to remain useable over time, rather than to store it on what's
intended for on-line storage, and is likely to become obsolete within a
couple of years of when it was developed?
Unless there is no equivalent... I've got the exact problem with the
DECsystem-10 I got earlier this year... it came with two RP06 drives.
They are 3-phase drives. We don't yet have three phase power (or a
close approximation of it), so cannot run the drives. Without the
drives, we cannot even load the microcode for the machine, so it is
a very large paper-weight.
I've been looking of a non-three-phase replacement for the drives, but
we still would need three-phase to get the data off the disks I have.
We have, however, been getting all the data off the tapes so as not
to lose it.
It would be great if there was a massbus interface for a more recent
tape drive, and the same for a disk... it would be neat to be able to
have a DAT tape acting like a TU77 or something supported by the machine,
and a couple of SCSI or even IDE disks acting as RM03 or RP06 disks...
(anyone know of any? Anyone up for the challenge of designing one?)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
28 Nov
28 Nov
5:57 a.m.
New subject: Obsolete media -- wanted a non-three phase RP06
Unless there is no equivalent... I've got the
exact problem with the
DECsystem-10 I got earlier this year... it came with two RP06 drives.
They are 3-phase drives. We don't yet have three phase power (or a
close approximation of it), so cannot run the drives. Without the
drives, we cannot even load the microcode for the machine, so it is
a very large paper-weight.
I've been looking of a non-three-phase replacement for the drives, but
we still would need three-phase to get the data off the disks I have.
Well, Megan... look no further than your RP06.
RP06's are not three phase, although the power wiring is set for three
phase.
RP06's are internally using two phase 220v motors and the third phase
is used to either (my memory is hazy)
1. power the DCL
2. power the motor in a second RP06
Two RP06's were designed to strap together with a daisy chain three
phase cable arrangement. Two wires (220) powered the motor and one of
the phases (I think) also powered the card cage. If there was a second
RP it got the unused phase and the lighter loaded of the two phases used
in the first drive.
I'm pretty sure phase 3 wasn't used anywhere in the first drive
(although it might've gone to the first DCL... anyone have prints?)
This means you can get an RP06 working in normal house/apartment wiring
if you have 220 for an electric range, clothes dryer or other
heavy appliance...
It would be great if there was a massbus interface for
a more recent
tape drive, and the same for a disk... it would be neat to be able to
have a DAT tape acting like a TU77 or something supported by the machine,
and a couple of SCSI or even IDE disks acting as RM03 or RP06 disks...
(anyone know of any? Anyone up for the challenge of designing one?)
Well, considering the DEC Massbuss patent and that they damn near sued
anyone who used it to death... I don't think it will get much interest.
I don't know any company out there that would consider it.
Perhaps someone will look at it and make an RM05 lookalike adapter
that let CDC9766's and newer SMD and E-SMD's sit on a massbus
and emulate RM05's or RP07's.
Is that Massbus patent expired yet? How long before LAT get freed up and
reverse engineered? I wonder if AMP still even makes the connectors
since they were a supposedly sole source item.
(Some German outfit I can't remember -- Braegan or something got killed
on that Massbus one in court when I was in Field Service.) They interfaced
Calcomp's to the massbus. I think Emulex got nailed on the 11/70 cache
bus as well.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
DEC unfortunately (and this hurt their business a lot in the mid-late
80's) began to think like IBM and try to close up all interfaces except
for the Unibus/Qbus.
Bill
---
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC,
The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check.
6:08 a.m.
New subject: Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)
At 02:24 PM 11/28/1999 -0500, Megan wrote:
Well... one possible (temporary) solution to this particular dilemma comes
IMHO, it makes little sense to retain media for
washing-machine-sized
disk drives if you don't retain the drives and maintain them in order to
retain the value of the media....
Unless there is no equivalent... I've got the exact problem with the
DECsystem-10 I got earlier this year... it came with two RP06 drives.
They are 3-phase drives. We don't yet have three phase power (or a
close approximation of it), so cannot run the drives. Without the
drives, we cannot even load the microcode for the machine, so it is
a very large paper-weight.
I've been looking of a non-three-phase replacement for the drives, but
we still would need three-phase to get the data off the disks I have. from the world of machineing (metal cutting, etc) where
small
shops/hobbiests frequently obtain equipment (mills, lathes, etc.) that is
designed for three phase power.
Rather than replace the motors (an aggrivating and expensive proposition),
there are a number of sources for three phase 'converters' which take
single phase power (or perhaps two phase for really heavy load situations)
and through (most often) a motor/generator combination output real (or
close enough) three phase power for the application.
I would not be surprised of some of the larger equipment rental places had
such critters available for rental (or sale for the long term applications).
Just my two cents worth...
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
7:55 a.m.
New subject: Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you
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10:10 a.m.
New subject: Tektronix 4641 Printer (DEC LA-180)
Hi, all,
A friend of mine has dug the following item out of his basement.
It is a free-standing dot-matrix printer, with a 'stand', which
has power supply and (lots of TTL) logic in it. It is a wide-carriage
printer with pin-feed, with single dot-matrix printhead.
It has a label on the front that says Tektronix 4641, but inside the bottom
of the chassis is a sheet that says "Digital Equipment Corporation" and
"DEC
LA 180".
Sounds like Tektronix may have OEM'd this printer from DEC.
It appears to have a serial RS-232 interface that is a separate
circuit board that is 'added on' to some kind of parallel
interface.
Anyone know anything about this beast? Is it something that
would be worth rescuing?
Thanks, all.
Rick Bensene
The Old Calculators Web Museum
http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators
7:07 p.m.
New subject: Tektronix 4641 Printer (DEC LA-180)
Sounds like Tektronix may have OEM'd this printer
from DEC.
It appears to have a serial RS-232 interface that is a separate
circuit board that is 'added on' to some kind of parallel
interface.
Not surprising, a several pieces of Tek gear had DEC stuff inside in the
80's. Somewhere I've got some doc's of some kind talking about a system of
theirs that had a MicroVAX inside, IIRC.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
7:03 p.m.
Megan wrote:
Unless there is no equivalent... I've got the exact problem with the
DECsystem-10 I got earlier this year... it came with two RP06 drives.
They are 3-phase drives. We don't yet have three phase power (or a
close approximation of it), so cannot run the drives. Without the
drives, we cannot even load the microcode for the machine, so it is
a very large paper-weight.
I don't think you can hack the RP06 to run on single phase as you could do
on a VAX 6xxx.
I've been looking of a non-three-phase replacement
for the drives, but
we still would need three-phase to get the data off the disks I have.
If you come up with one please post on the list.
We have, however, been getting all the data off the
tapes so as not
to lose it.
It would be great if there was a massbus interface for a more recent
tape drive, and the same for a disk... it would be neat to be able to
have a DAT tape acting like a TU77 or something supported by the machine,
and a couple of SCSI or even IDE disks acting as RM03 or RP06 disks...
Like the QBUS, UNIBUS adapter to IDE drives; I'm gonna look at it since
all the RDxx on my PDPs are failing.
But you would still have the problem of getting the stuff out of the
original disks; but having a Massbus-2-SCSI adapter would be nice especially
to avoid the cost of RP06 or RM03 media.
Megan, if you ever think to through away your 10 ;-) because of lack of
three phase power, please tell me; I have a friend that works in a shipping
company (real ships) that can get me a very cheap price for one o those big
containers and now that I have an IBM 4381 I have access to a 50KVA line
8-))))))))))))))))))))
e.
========================================================================
Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella(a)softstar.it
Soft*Star srl eb(a)vax.cnuce.cnr.it
InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092
Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487
10143 Torino, Italy
Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software,
manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals
==========================================================================
30 Nov
30 Nov
7:17 a.m.
Give the machine needs doesn't need a huge amount of current you
can make your own 3-phase power from joining 3-groups in your
home/workplace. You'llbe limited by the max current the fuses of
that group can handle. And you'll need to find out the live
wires of those groups. Check a handbook on the subject.
Megan wrote:
IMHO, it makes little sense to retain media for
washing-machine-sized
disk drives if you don't retain the drives and maintain them in order to
retain the value of the media. Hindsight is always 20/20, but wouldn't
it make sense to archive data/software on an archival medium, likely, we
hope, to remain useable over time, rather than to store it on what's
intended for on-line storage, and is likely to become obsolete within a
couple of years of when it was developed?
Unless there is no equivalent... I've got the exact problem with the
DECsystem-10 I got earlier this year... it came with two RP06 drives.
They are 3-phase drives. We don't yet have three phase power (or a
close approximation of it), so cannot run the drives. Without the
drives, we cannot even load the microcode for the machine, so it is
a very large paper-weight.
I've been looking of a non-three-phase replacement for the drives, but
we still would need three-phase to get the data off the disks I have.
We have, however, been getting all the data off the tapes so as not
to lose it.
It would be great if there was a massbus interface for a more recent
tape drive, and the same for a disk... it would be neat to be able to
have a DAT tape acting like a TU77 or something supported by the machine,
and a couple of SCSI or even IDE disks acting as RM03 or RP06 disks...
(anyone know of any? Anyone up for the challenge of designing one?)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
8935
days inactive
8937
days old
7 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
enrico.badella＠softstar.it -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jimw＠agora.rdrop.com -
mbg＠world.std.com -
pechter＠pechter.dyndns.org -
rickb＠bensene.com -
sipke＠wxs.nl