- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by techart-corp＠lowcostcommunications.net

Hi, I have extensively been familiar with all the Cadnetix workstation, Auto-routers, servers and PC version all of which I own or have owned. Further I my be one source for some of the most complete set of manuals >from inside engineering at Cadnetix through many notebooks of personal trials these machines were put through. Feel free to contact me if you are serious about using these to design PCB's. Regards, D.W.

20 years, 12 months

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Paging Sellam, need to talk to you...

by john_boffemmyer_iv＠boff-net.dhs.org

I know Sellam is on this list often, and I am sorry for posting this to the list, but I can't seem to get through to him as of late, possibly, my address is being filtered for some reason. If you can Sellam, please contact me off-list as we need to discuss something privately. Thank you, John Boffemmyer IV -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 9/2/2005

20 years, 12 months

1
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Rockwell R1212DS modem chipset

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

The HP 82915 Modem (for the Integral) that I mentioned in another message, uses a 3-chip chipset from Rockwell. The chips are R5313-14, R5132-14 and 10464-14. THe first 2 are 64 pin QIL zig-zag pin packages, the last is a 40 pin DIL. Now, I have the 1985 Rockwell databook here, which covers modems. It appears you could buy a ready-assembled PCB from Rockwell containing these chips and the support components. I have data on that. You could also buy the chips not-on-a-PCB, as the R1212DS 'device set'. Alas I have no real data on those, the book refers me to 'R1212 Modem Device Set Manual', order number 652. And I don't have that. Does anyone have it? Failing that, does anyone have 'R2424 Modem Device Set Manual), order number 651 (this is the 2400 bps version). The chips seem to be somewhat related. What I am relally looking for is complete pinouts of all 3 chips. This may not be in those manuals, though. I have the service manaul for the Amstrad PPC, which includes a schematic of its internal modem. That used the R2424 chipsset, but the schematic does not name most of the pins on these chips, only those that go to other parts of the modem. The internconnections between the 3 chips in the chipset are shown, but not named. I am wondering if the Manual just told you to link pin 7 on the Tx chi to pin 15 on the Rx chip (or whatever, that is a ficticious connection!), and didn't tell you what that signal was. -tony

20 years, 12 months

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Cromemco boot disk maker & images are available

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Hi Guys, I've just posted my utility which allows you to make Cromemco BOOT disk via a serial cable and RDOS to my site: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html Go to the very bottom of the main page, and select "disks and images", the utility is called RT050410.ZIP (I'll think of a better name later). I've also posted CROMDISK.ZIP which contains: CDOS disk configured for dual 5.25" drives (It's easy to make an 8" disk from this) Cromix in both 5.25" and 8" formats. Please refer to the RT.TXT file enclosed for information on how it all works. NOTE: So far this has been tested and found to work on only my one Cromemco system, which is a System-3 with ZPU, 256KZ and 16FDC (plus a bunch of Tuarts, PRI and WDI boards which don't matter for this). This machine has dual Tandon 8" drives, and I've got a pair of Teac 5.25" drive attached externally ... The RDOS on the 16FDC is version 2.52 ... it is possible/likely that I have done things which may not be compatible with other versions of RDOS, please report your findings to me. I'm supposed to be picking up two more Cromemco systems next week, one of which I know has a 4FDC (I think the other is another 16FDC), so I should be able to verify/fix operation with the 4FDC shortly. If anyone happens to have a spare 64FDC, I would love to have one available so that I can get it working with the full set. Regards, Dave PS: Mike S. reports that the CDOS/INIT problem with 32k occurs only when you are running it in 64k - on a true 32k only system, he says it works OK - if you have only 32k, you may be able to skip the intermediate disk - hopefully we can dig up a version of CDOS & INIT which will resolve this little oddity. -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

20 years, 12 months

2
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64 pin SIMM (Mac IIFX) Specs?

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:17:50 +0100 (BST) >From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) >Most, if not all, of the single-bit-wide DRAM chips (4164, 41256, etc) >had separate DIN and DOUT pins. They were not dual-ported, though, you >only had one address bus for both reading and writing. Thank you. I have since noted this on X 1 DRAM datasheets. I had never noticed that before. >You could link these pins together externally, or you could use them >separately. IIRC on the IBM PC, the DIN and DOUT pins are linked on the >RAMs storing data bits, but wired separately on the RAMs storting the >parity bits. What is the point in using them separately? Was it for the case where the destination of a read is different from the source of a write? I could see where that could happen in parity checking. For the data bus though, the source and destination would be the same. For a little while I thought it might be for some odd timing advantage. But since the write data isn't required on the bus until just before the CAS anyway, I don't think the timing idea could be valid. Besides separate IN and Out could only confer a speed advantage in the cases where a Read followed a Write or vice versa. >If you have the machines that are supposed to use these 64 pin SIMMs, can >you not just check to see if DIN and DOUT are linked on the mainboard >with an ohmmeter? I don't have a IIfx or the SIMMs yet. I was exploring the feasibility of the project first. However, I posted a WTB to the austin.forsale news group and got lucky with a fellow who wants to give a IIfx away. So next week I should have hardware to explore. It's nice to avoid shipping when shipping would be greater than the value of a machine. Still, I would like to get my hands on the Apple Hardware Developer Note for the IIfx. It should at least mention whether they were using separate data_in and data_out for some timing related purpose. Of course, if an ohmmeter reveals that In and Out are tied together on the motherboard, then I'll have my answer. Jeff Walther

20 years, 12 months

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Intel MDS Series II IOC question

by dmabry＠mich.com

I think there are some Intel MDS owners here, and even some who use them! ;) Maybe one of you will know this detail. I'm trying to troubleshoot a problem on one I just got, a Series II, model 225. There is a large PC board on the back panel of these beasts called an IOC (Input/Output Controller). It contains an 8080 cpu, some ram, some rom, and basically all the I/O for the machine on the back panel. It is commanded by the system's cpu (a different board plugged into the front multibus chassis) through a couple of I/O ports, if I remember correctly. The IOC board has a three-position switch on the back. One position is "line" and in that position it is connected to the system cpu and does its everyday work of controlling the I/O for the MDS. One position is "local" and in that position I think all it does is echo characters typed on the keyboard to the crt. The third position, "diagnostic" causes it to run some internal confidence test. In that position, if everything is healthy, there are a series of two beeps, a pause, then three beeps after reset. After that there are some choices on the crt that let you run a few different tests from the keyboard. The one I'm working on will beep twice, then pause, then only one beep. Nothing further happens. No characters on the crt (which does have a raster, so at least part of the crt-controller function of the IOC is working), no apparent response to keyboard typeins. My question is this...does anyone know what part of the diagnostic is failing when there are only three beeps instead of five? The documentation I have only says it should beep five times but doesn't say what each beep signifies. It would help narrow down my search for the problem if I know what part of the test is failing. I'd love a disassembly of the firmware of that board, but I've never seen it or any source for it. That would be very helpful. Anyone have such a thing? I don't remember ever seeing anything like that from Intel, but it was a long time ago and I may have just forgotten. I'll be diving into this problem this weekend, but if anyone can help with the above couple of questions that would be wonderful. Thanks in advance! Dave Mabry

20 years, 12 months

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more stuff in Kansas City, 20 new 2400' magtapes, 4 DSSI drives, microvax2000

by mamcfadden＠cmh.edu

4 RF31T DSSI drives with carriers and front panels 2 cases sealed precision magnetics 2400 foot 89 track magtapes microvax 2000 with external disk drive Make me an offer on the microvax 2000. The DSSI drives and tapes are free to whoever pays shiopping. m a m c f a d d e n atatat c m h dotdotdot e d u

20 years, 12 months

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IBM 3725

by gcarrick＠cse.uta.edu

Well, I have a bit of a dilemma and I am seeking advice. (No flames, please.) As so many on this list I abhor seeing things scraped if they are useful. As with much of the older mainframe stuff, however, it is very big, and an isolated unit is not generally useful by itself. So here is my problem. Our museum is a part of a big state university. I go by the surplus department once in a while and see some interesting stuff that I take back to our space and add to our inventory. If it has a residual value on the books then it is transferred to our department. If it is not on the books then I just take it and there is no record of it. In the latter cases I have been known to swap newer stuff for other older stuff we are interested in. Yesterday I went by and there was a nice IBM 3725 front end processor. It is not anything attractive for a museum visitor to look at. It takes up a lot of valuable display space (roughly 2 racks & about 5' tall) for something kind of obscure (for most people) and not at all visually interesting. Now I have no idea what our surplus department generally does with such things. Assuming that there is no actual market for it, I could probably go over there and get it for our museum. Right now I could probably even store it, at least until something more attractive came along. On the other hand, when we get to the point that we are a bona-fide museum, with lots of visitors, I can see raising some much needed cash by parting this thing out. I am sure there are lots of boards and control panels that could be sold individually. I would envision tagging these parts as being a souvenir of the museum, much as I will with punched cards, 8" floppy disks, 5-1/4" disks, etc. I guess a third alternative would be to sell or trade it to somebody on the list for something that is more visually interesting and perhaps smaller. Gil We don't sing because we're happy - We're happy because we sing! mailto:gilcarrick at comcast.net? web page: http://goodtimeschorus.org/ Gil Carrick VP Chapter Development/ Webmaster 1012 Portofino Dr., Arlington, TX, 76012 817-274-2210

20 years, 12 months

4
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Important: Need to hear from potential VCF 8.0 exhibitors/attendees

by vcf＠siconic.com

I need to hear from people who had planned to attend or exhibit at VCF 8.0 this November, especially if you've already made your flight arrangements. It's important that you respond to me SOON. Please send your replies directly to me. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 12 months

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DEC Computer Lab

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

If someone will photocopy these DEC computer lab manuals and send me the photocopies, I will create a PDF file and return the photocopies (if desired). They need to be unbound, and preferably single sided. They do not need to be 8.5" x 11". The better the copy of the copies, the better the PDF file. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com

20 years, 12 months

3
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Clean out of stuff in Kansas City, alphaserver, PDP-11, TEKtronix terminals, AT&T 7300

by mamcfadden＠cmh.edu

Winter is coming and the garage must be cleaned up. Make me an offer and come and pick it up, it's large and heavy. Alphaserver 2100 external DEC TZ87 DEC CRT VRT19-HA DEC CRT VR297-DA several DEC VT220, VT320 terminals several Wyse terminals PDP-11 BA23-A in floor stand TEK 4205 TEK 4209 2 LMSI 1200E 12" Optical Disc Drives AT&T UNIX PC i.e. AT&T 7300 TI Explorer compact chassis labeled on outside as Unisys, inside as T3127 contact Mike m a m c f a d d e n atatat c m h dot dot dot e d u

20 years, 12 months

2
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Mass Memory Unit from Space Shuttle

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:48:23 -0700 >> I found a pile of these things this morning. They are made by Odetics >>in Anaheim Ca. After I got home with them I realized that they are for the >>space shuttle. Does anyone know anything about them? I THINK they use a >>tape drive inside. I haven't opened one up yet but I saw the remains of a >>tape drive at the same place and I think it was the guts out of one of these. I worked at NASA JSC in the mid-80s. Back then they definitely used tape drives for the mass storage on their flight computer systems. I don't know what they use today, whether they've changed or when any changes may have occured. But back in 84 - 87 they used tape drives. There was a thick (~3") training manual that explained the basic system architecture in passing. If I still have a copy there's not much hope of my finding it, but if I run across it, I'll post. Jeff Walther

20 years, 12 months

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64 pin SIMM (Mac IIFX) Specs?

by trag＠io.com

I am looking for specifications for the 64 pin SIMMs used in the Macintosh IIFX and one or two of the LaserWriters (IINT, IINTX?). I have the pinout from the "Guide to the Macintosh Family Hardware" but could use the physical dimensions, i.e. an engineering drawing. Any special electronic considerations would be nice to know too. I'm thinking about running off a few homebrew boards. One of Apple's old Tech Notes states, "The IIfx has 64-pin SIMMs, which are different from previous Macintosh models. Developers can request mechanical drawings and electrical specifications of the IIfx RAM SIMM modules from DTS. Please send the request with a mailing address and include the words "IIfx SIMM information request" in the title of the electronic mail request or letter to facilitate handling." But since that note was last updated in 1991, I'm guessing that wouldn't work any more. But if one of you sent off for that information way back when, I would love to see it. My main concern is that the pinout lists a separate data pin for data in and data out. So even though they are eight bit SIMMs, there is a Data In [0:7] and Data Out [0:7] in the pin out. It's possible, perhaps likely, that these are simply tied together, but it would be nice to see some confirmation. The chips I've identified on IIfx SIMMs don't appear to be dual ported and I don't see any extra circuitry on the SIMM that could be making an adaptation, but I'm working from JPEGs so far. If this looks feasible I'll actually spring for a IIfx and a few SIMMs to work from. On the other hand, if the SIMMs require some rare dual data ported DRAM chips, then I'll drop the idea. Jeff Walther

20 years, 12 months

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XTs and large hard disks

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Hi everyone! I have an old Portable PC that I put a 2MB memory card in, along with an EGA card, sound card, and some other stuff. I'm doing my best to max it out. Anyway, I'm having some trouble with hard disks. I have two hard disk controllers: a Seagate ST02 SCSI/Floppy controller, and a Juko Labs D16-X IDE controller. Now both of these cards work okay, except they recognize some strange sizes for the disks. The only disk that seems to show up correctly is a Quantum LP105S...the others I tried, all bigger than a gig, are either not recognized, or recognized with the wrong size. This is also the case with the IDE controller - everything is recognized at 10MB. I purchased an LBA PRO card for my machine hoping to overcome the large disk size problem, but all it does is freeze the machine...however, if I remove the 8088 and replace it with a NEC V20, I get the banner for the hard disk drive card, and THEN the machine freezes. So my questions are: 1. Does anyone know a good solution for putting a large drive in an XT, while still leaving it an XT? 2. Should I leave the V20 in? I've heard it has compatibility issues with some programs, but I'm not solid on my information. Regards, Julian

20 years, 12 months

2
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classiccmp bandwidth

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

If someone wants a large number of files that are hosted by the classiccmp server... I'd really appreciate it if you'd let me send you a CD instead of you spending days on a high bandwidth connection sucking them all down. Bandwidth limits are now in place because of some jerk. Jay

20 years, 12 months

1
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VT220 symptom

by vax9000＠gmail.com

Hi, list, My VT220 went crazy yestoday. When I was doing something else on my PC, suddenly the VT220 monitor was blank (black) and the LEDs on the monitor flashed. The frequency was about 4 or 5 times a second. The keyboard LEDs (LK201) flashed the same speed as the monitor LED. Taking off the keyboard and the RS232 port did not solve the problem. Does anybody know what happened? Is there an easy way to fix the problem? Thanks. vax, 9000

20 years, 12 months

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Intel MDS Series II IOC question

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Re: " Were machine-pin sockets even _available_ when some of the early machines were produced?" Yes; Augat sockets were available in 1976 for sure, if not earlier.

20 years, 12 months

1
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S/360 channel (was: Anybody live in Chile?

by brian＠quarterbyte.com

> Well, there's another project for someone into such: a generalised > IBM 360/370 Style I/O Channel' adapter/interface > to something modern/common. This is the at top of my list. It's going to be a USB-2 channel driver (talks to peripherals). Have the design done but have't started building it. Immediate goal is testing of channel interfaced devices to help cull the collection of big iron, secondary goal is operation of the devices from Hercules. Speaking of USB-to-X interfaces, where X is pecular, thanks, Sellam for the plug for my USB-to-Documation interface. I'm thinking of building two more copies, another for me and another for the museum. Is anyone else interested in one? If so I'll do up a PC board instead of wire-wrapping, and we can share the production cost. Let me know by private email. PS - APL\1130 was mentioned recently. We have the source on punched cards. I've read it in but there were a couple of errors which is why it's not published on ibm1130.org yet. Also, it appears to have been modified (slightly) to run on the IBM 1800. brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian at quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com

21 years

3
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S/36

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Don't know much about these things, but Jerry has one in Kent. I know that they take SSP O/S and 3270? Twinax terminals, but I'm fishing for more information. Is this like the AS/400, where if it doesn't come with an OS and firmware disk it's toast, or is it a bit more forgiving? What sort of drives does it take? (ST-506, ESDI, proprietary?) Is it 220v only? any other weirdness? (Full disclosure- my only experience with "real IBMs" is the RS/6000) Scott

21 years

3
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Warning Humor! Tech Support!

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I got this in an E-mail and it was just too good not to pass on! Joe > Mujibar was trying to get into the USA legally through Immigration. > > The Officer said, "Mujibar, you have passed all the tests, except there is > one more test. Unless you pass it, you cannot enter the United States of > America." > > Mujibar said, "I am ready." > > The officer said, "Make a sentence using the words Yellow, Pink and Green." > > Mujibar thought for a few minutes and said, "Mister Officer, I am ready." > > The Officer said, "Go ahead." > > Mujibar said, "The telephone goes green, green, green, and I pink it up, and > say, 'Yellow, this is Mujibar.'" > > Mujibar now lives in a neighborhood near you and works at a Verizon help > desk. I talked to him yesterday. >

21 years

3
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Which version is it, Altair 680 or 680b ?

by ragooman＠comcast.net

Well, I have the 680(b) all disassembled now. I noticed a few things while I was taking this apart. Since the logo silkscreen is gone, I'm still trying to determine the model of this machine. My brother was trying some modifications that I didn't know about back then. So I have to try to revert the machine back to it's original state. The serial plate didn't survive the fossilization over the years(it's gone), so I can't determine what serial number for this. I still couldn't determine if this was a 680 or 680b from the looking at the manual. When I was looking online, I found some references to S-100 boards that supposedly were made to plug into the 680b. But there's no place to plug in S-100 boards in this version that I have. here --->http://www.virtualaltair.com/virtualaltair.com/vac_boards.asp One thing I noticed after I took this part, the mainboard actually says this MITS 1976 680 MAINBOARD REV 1-6x I hope somebody might be able to help identify this model. I'm thinking this is actually a 680 and not a 680b, am I right ? =Dan -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [My Corner of Cyberspace http://ragooman.home.comcast.net/] [Pittsburgh Robotics Society http://www.pghrobotics.org/] [Pittsburgh Vintage Comp.Society http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pghvintagecomp/] [Hurricane-Help contact our relatives http://www.familylinks.icrc.org/katrina/] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/86 - Release Date: 8/31/2005

21 years

1
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DEC Computer Lab

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

>>> I assume Don Lancaster got the idea for this Digital Logic MicroLab from >>> the DEC Computer Lab. >>> >>> http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1970/PE_Apr1970.htm >>> >>> This training aid used the RTL Cookbook as a guide. What was the year of >>> the DEC Lab? >>> >>> Michael Holley >> >>I believe the DEC Computer Labs date from about 1969. > > IIRC I used to have a 1968 DEC Handbook that showed it. I can't remember > what I did with the book. > > Joe I just looked in the DEC Computer Lab Workbook and it says Copyright 1968. Ashley

21 years

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DEC Computer Lab

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

> I assume Don Lancaster got the idea for this Digital Logic MicroLab from the > DEC Computer Lab. > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1970/PE_Apr1970.htm > > This training aid used the RTL Cookbook as a guide. What was the year of the > DEC Lab? > > Michael Holley I believe the DEC Computer Labs date from about 1969. Ashley

21 years

2
1
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S/360 channel (was: Anybody live in Chile?)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Well, there's another project for someone into such: a generalised 'IBM 360/370 > Style I/O Channel' adapter/interface to something modern/common. funasset.com built a box to go from a channel to a pc (mid 90's) I have the external box, there apparently was a card as well with a 37 pin connector that went in the pc they used TI 751730 interface chips DEC built 6' rack sized interfaces for the 10 and 11 to talk to a channel in the 70's (the DX-10 and DX-11)

21 years

1
0
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DEC Computer Lab

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

At 11:29 AM 9/3/05 -0400, you wrote: >> I assume Don Lancaster got the idea for this Digital Logic MicroLab from the >> DEC Computer Lab. >> >> http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1970/PE_Apr1970.htm >> >> This training aid used the RTL Cookbook as a guide. What was the year of the >> DEC Lab? >> >> Michael Holley > >I believe the DEC Computer Labs date from about 1969. IIRC I used to have a 1968 DEC Handbook that showed it. I can't remember what I did with the book. Joe

21 years

1
0
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DEC Computer Lab

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

I assume Don Lancaster got the idea for this Digital Logic MicroLab from the DEC Computer Lab. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Apr1970/PE_Apr1970.htm This training aid used the RTL Cookbook as a guide. What was the year of the DEC Lab? Michael Holley > From: "Philippe Sonnet" <sonnet at sols.ucl.ac.be> > Subject: Re: DEC Computer Lab > http://www.sonnet.be/dec/computerlab.htm

21 years

1
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QuantumLink RELOADED!

by brain＠jbrain.com

For those who care, work is progressing nicely on the Internet re-implementation of the Commodore(tm) QuantumLink service. The hope is to re-introduce the basic service on the 20th Anniversary of the Q-Link introduction: November 1, 2005. There is still plenty to implement, and information to load, but the infrastructure looks to be in place. We've secured the quantum-link.org domain for information and the eventual web portal. As of this week, the service has been set up for continuous operation, with new code drops loaded in the early mornings. the server can be accessed at qlink.quantum-link.org:5190 by a real Commodore C64/128 using an RS232 interface cabled to the Internet via PC or RS232-to-Ethernet adapter. The server can also be accessed via the VICE and WinVICE C64 emulator. Details for both configurations are posted on the www.quantum-link.org home page. As of 8-30-2005, People Connection and all main information areas are functional, as is email, online messages, and message bases. File transfers will be implemented soon, and then the basic People Connection games. Re-implementing Club Caribe and the Habitat system are also goals of the project, though more ambitious and will not be attempted before the launch. Although the server is still in pre-alpha stage, it regularly hosts a lively chat in the PC Lobby with a dozen or so users. I encourage you to join us for some fun alpha and beta testing. The system will be demonstrated and a discussion on the methods for re-implementing this complex service given at the SWRAP EXPO in Chicago, IL on September 17th, 2005. Although many folks have given support to the project, a few deserve special mention. I want to thank the following individuals: Keith Henrickson, who spent countless hours with the Q-Link client runnng in the VICE monitor deciphering and reverse engineering large portions of the Q-Link command structure and verb set. Keith has also continued to oncover new portions of the verb set, including message bases and file transfers Keith Elkin, whose archived videotaped Q-Link sessions proved instrumental in setting message layouts, response strings, and timing. Raymond Day, who managed to archive a trace of 2 actual Q-Link user sessions. One provided the key to fully implementing the information areas, and allowed the extraction of 200+ menu items and 100+ files from the original system, and the other held information crucial to implementing message bases and provided insights on how the file areas operated. The VICE Emulator team. Without this tool, development would not have progressed to this state. Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain at jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!

21 years

2
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Heads Up for Seattle area collectors

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Fellow techies, I was at Boeing Surplus today in Kent, and I spotted a nice 9-track drive in one of the 'washing machine' style floor cabinets. It was tagged at $25.00. No idea what vintage or density (I was timestressed), but the I/O cable looked like a high-density D-sub-50 (form factor of a D-sub-37, but with 50 contacts spread across three rows). I'll bet it'll still be there tomorrow. Bring at least a pickup truck and two strong bodies if you want it. Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?"

21 years

3
2
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Anybody live in Chile?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com> > >On Fri, 2 Sep 2005, Brent Hilpert wrote: > >> Granted that dealing wih IBM stuff is difficult in the absence of the rest of >> the system if you want it be anything other than a big dead artifact (which I >> guess is why you are annoyed with their occupation of your warehouse.) > >Well, I can't be too annoyed since I'm the one that put them there :) But >that was basically my point: without any real chance of getting a full >system, what's the point of having them? You can get them running in a >test mode and have a tape being de-spooled from one reel onto a take-up >reel, but that's about it. > ---snip--- Hi I see no reason one couldn't connect it to just about any machine. Not an original configuration but still, a working setup. One might even recover data from original tapes this way. Dwight

21 years

2
1
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IBM S/36 5362 Needs a home Seattle area

by g-wright＠att.net

Hi, Still doing some shop cleaning. IBM S/36 Model 5362 . looks complete , less Terminal. This is a desk side system. looks to be in good condition. Has not been tested or turned on. Has a 8" floppy and hard drive. There are 2 manuals inside the case. This is quit heavy. local pick only. 75.00 Also, last call on these. They are on "Death Row" Grahman magnetics (Carlisle) "Inspector IV MPC" Mag tape Evaluation system. This is a Vacuum column Mag tape tester. has lots of LED's and LED read outs . Quit a piece to watch run. Works. This is quit heavy. local pickup only. Free to a good home 4) DEC HSC systems. models 60 to 90. no hard drives These are quit heavy. local pick up only Free to a good home I'm located in Kent Wa. south of Seattle Thanks, Jerry Jerry wright JLC inc. 800-292-6370 PST

21 years

2
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Diablo model 30 redux

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Remember those model 30 parts I was trying to give away/swap. When was this? Do you still have them? -al (who HAS an Alto, and a bunch of Diablo 30's)

21 years

2
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DEC boards of value?

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Someone emailed me (a non-collector) with a list of DEC boards and they want to know if they have any monetary value. I'm not up on many dec boards, particularly XNNN type numbers. So I was hoping people here could tell me if any of the below are particularly sought after. I suspect the guy will want to part with them, likely all at once rather than piecemeal. Let me know! Jay ------------- AtoD (5) (matched pairs with the A002) A002 (5) A231 (1) A233 (1) A633 (1) G736 (1) K581 (1) M105 (1) M111 (5) M112 (1) M113 (9) M115 (6) M117 (3) M121 (2) M206 (9) M216 (5) M304 (1) M310 (1) M401 (2) M602 (3) M617 (2) M623 (2) M783 (3) M805 (1) M851 (4) M942 (2) M3020 (2) M7821 (1) W406 (4) W741 (2) W743 (1) Jumper card (4)

21 years

2
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TD100 delay line chip?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

The question about the ttl oscillator jogged my memory. Anyone recognize a line of "delay line" chips with names like TD25, TD50, TD100, etc... The look they were expensive at the time, like $10 around 1976. The TD100 pinout looks like this: +------+ input | 1 14 | vcc | 2 13 | | 3 12 | 20ns 40ns | 4 11 | | 5 10 | 60s 80ns | 6 9 | gnd | 7 8 | 100ns +------+ I don't have an exact part number or mfg. (I know where I can find one but it's not easy and will take some work) I want to model these in verilog but I'm not exactly sure how they work. They are delay lines, but I'm not sure how they react. The input seems to be a short pulse from high to low of about 40ns. I'm assuming this produces an approx 40ns pulse after the prescibed delay, but I'm not entirely sure. I would love to see a few pages from a data book which describes how these react (enough to model them correctly). any pointers? -brad

21 years

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does any read punch cards anymore?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com> > >On Thu, 1 Sep 2005, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> >Never had a problem with this. Most of the problems I have are cards that >> >have not been stored appropriately and have bent or otherwise deformed >> >over time. It's a bitch having to bend them back flat (a process of >> >bending with my hands, over my knee, and in some cases when they just >> >won't cooperate, whacking them repeatedly over the edge of a table). >> >> You should use a steam iron. > >You mean on all 30,000 of them? :) > Hi Sellam Maybe one of those industrial steam irons used at the commercial laundries. I was thinking that you were dealing with them one at a time. For bulk, you might look into how the banks iron bills. They have some method that means they have some kind of machine to handle the problem. These machine must be making it to scrap dealers. Dwight

21 years

7
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Scanning at public libraries?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I'm in a relatively small town (pop. 7,500) but the local public library is leasing a Minolta business-class copier. It includes software that runs on an adjacent PC that can read a stack of papers and convert to TIFF, JPEG, Acrobat or OCR. I may be the only one (as the library's computer consultant) to have figured out all the features; I don't think they've even set rates for the non-copy-machine features. - John

21 years

1
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DEC Computer Lab

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

>> Dear Ashley, >> >> Yes, I have them. See >> http://www.sonnet.be/dec/computerlab.htm >> I can photocopy them for you, if you want. > > I'd also be interested in a copy of the "Computer Lab Teacher's Guide". > (I have copies of the student workbook already.) > > Thanks, > > Vince Phillippe, I would like a copy of the teacher's guide too. Thanks for your offer to photocopy. You can email me off-list at wacarder at usit.net. Thanks, Ashley

21 years

1
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IBM 1130 on eBay Austria

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke at siemens.com> > >Am 31 Aug 2005 21:58 meinte William Maddox: >> --- William Maddox <wmaddox at pacbell.net> wrote: >> > There is an IBM 1130 up for sale on eBay in Austria. >> > The current price is 500 euros, with no bids and >> > scarcely a day to go. > >Well, we tried to keep it in Europe (after all, it's a >German unit), but some guy in the US did outbid us. It >might be interesting to see how he organizes the pickup >in Linz. From Munich it would just have been a 3 hour >drive with a small truck :) > >Gruss >H. >-- >VCF Europa 7.0 am 29/30.April und 01.Mai 2006 in Muenchen >http://www.vcfe.org/ > > Hi Hans I know the fellow that just won the 1130. He is a neighbor of mine ( about 2 miles away ). He is one of the few other people that I know of that has a Nicolet NIC-80. He said he'd rather have a 1620 but a 1130 will just have to do. He has a hanger to put it in. I know he expects to get it running. The project of getting it across the pond is going to be interesting to follow. I'll try to get him to take pictures and post them on his web page of his adventures. Dwight

21 years

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More unknown stuff

by marvin＠rain.org

I haven't heard that name in a *long* time. They were originally in Goleta California and IIRC moved somewhere down south in the 70's. What information are you after? A. G. Carrick wrote: > I had previously asked about a disk platter I was trying to identify. I have > a couple of more pictures of it as well as some items from another drive. > The latter is stamped "INFOMAG". By doing some www research I thought I had

21 years

3
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IBM 1130 on eBay Austria

by wmaddox＠pacbell.net

There is an IBM 1130 up for sale on eBay in Austria. The current price is 500 euros, with no bids and scarcely a day to go. --Bill

21 years

2
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IBM S/60 5362 and others need homes

by g-wright＠att.net

Hi, Still trying to find homes for a few pieces. These are all on .....Death Row..... and need to go soon. One is a IBM S/60 5362 Looks complete with 8" floppy and hard drive. Has 2 manuals inside the cover This is a Desk side size box. I have not tested it in any way. No terimal included. Quite heavy. local pick up only. 75.00 Grahman Magnetics (Carlisle) "Magtape Inspector IV" Tape evaluation system. This is a Vacuum column Mag tape tester with lots of LED's and LED read outs. Also has a built in printer for the results. Puts on quit a show when running. Works Quit heavy, local pickup only. Free 4) DEC HSC systems no hard drives models 60 to 90 very heavy, local pick up only . Free I'm located in Kent, WA. south of Seattle Thanks, Jerry Jerry Wright JLC inc 253-854-9601 PST Wk days g-wright at att.net

21 years

1
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searching for replacement for 1793 FDC

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Hello Michael, Thank you for the offer to reuse your design. I already had looked at it. The chip count is low, and I do not need the CPLD, so there are just a few parts left! However, I wanted to stick to my 1973, because I was not sure about the copy-right stuff. I will take a few days to think things through and then decide if I keep the 1793 or move up to the 279x. The 279x sure saves some soldering work! Thanks, - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Michael Holley > Sent: vrijdag 2 september 2005 1:58 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: searching for replacement for 1793 FDC > > I did the FDC design using the WD2797 chip. Anyone can reuse > the design as they wish. I have sold out of my original run > of these boards. > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/DC_5/DC5_Index.htm > > The WD2797 has three adjustment, a capacitor and 2 trim pots. > I used a scope for these adjustment but then made a counter > circuit in the Xilinx CPLD to measure the pulse width. The > adjustment procedure is given in the users guide. > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/DC_5/DC5_DesignDescription.pdf > > The circuit is in the design description. > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/DC_5/DC5_DesignDescription.pdf > > Working with the Xilinx XC9500 series CPLD is easy and they > are 5 volt parts that you can get in PLCC packages. (Through > hole sockets.) > > Programming them takes a simple parallel port adapter that > you can make on a small perf board. I have a small PCB and > all of the parts I anyone wants to try to use them. > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/DC_5/Cable640.jpg > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/DC_5/ParallelCable640.JPG > > ------------------------------- > Michael Holley > www.swtpc.com/mholley > -------------------------------

21 years

1
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Archives & DECmate

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

A few months ago there was a discussion on the list about the DECmate. I can't seem to locate it in the archives. Am I doing something wrong, or are the archives not up-to-date? The subject line was something like "Stop me before I take the plunge." Glen 0/0

21 years

2
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Diablo model 30 redux

by gcarrick＠cse.uta.edu

Remember those model 30 parts I was trying to give away/swap. Here is a picture of a model 30 installed in a system you have probably heard of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto You could have knocked me over with a feather. Of course the article describes this as the system "hard disk", and I guess it was. When I was using them in the mid to late '70s we were using them like floppies and running the mini on a 40-80 MB removable drive. Gil

21 years

1
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DEC VT06 terminal - anybody ever see one?

by jack.rubin＠ameritech.net

OK, here's a head-scratcher for all you DECies - does anyone have _any_ info on the VT06 terminal? This was OEM'd for DEC by Datapoint and is based on the Datapoint 3300. Pictures, docs, even hardware would be welcome. Thanks! Jack KC9HVE

21 years

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searching for replacement for 1793 FDC

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

I did the FDC design using the WD2797 chip. Anyone can reuse the design as they wish. I have sold out of my original run of these boards. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/DC_5/DC5_Index.htm The WD2797 has three adjustment, a capacitor and 2 trim pots. I used a scope for these adjustment but then made a counter circuit in the Xilinx CPLD to measure the pulse width. The adjustment procedure is given in the users guide. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/DC_5/DC5_DesignDescription.pdf The circuit is in the design description. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/DC_5/DC5_DesignDescription.pdf Working with the Xilinx XC9500 series CPLD is easy and they are 5 volt parts that you can get in PLCC packages. (Through hole sockets.) Programming them takes a simple parallel port adapter that you can make on a small perf board. I have a small PCB and all of the parts I anyone wants to try to use them. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/DC_5/Cable640.jpg http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/DC_5/ParallelCable640.JPG ------------------------------- Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley -------------------------------

21 years

1
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follow-up on the blinkenlight console project

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Hello all. I'd like to tell my update on the SIMH blinkenlight console project(s). A year ago (or so), Vince and I developed the 6809 Core and I/O Boards. To refresh your memory about this project: the 6809 Core Board runs an application that communicates with a modified PDP-11 version of SIMH. You connect the I/O Board to switches and LEDs that represent a PDP-11 console, in my project example an 11/40 console. This console is the part that you had to do yourself, you could/can take a real console, but as I said earlier, that's (perhaps) a waste of a good machine. For this project, see www.pdp-11.nl/homebrew/startframe.html I have a new application that takes the first project one step further. The 6809 now simulates the PDP8 instruction set, and the I/O Board simulates a complete pdp8/e console. See this project results on : www.pdp-11.nl/homebrew/pdp8/pdp8startpage.html Especially the second "project" is nice (IMHO). I can run SpaceWar in OS/8 on the 6809 ! During the workz I added an IDE hard disk interface to the I/O Board! The pdp8/e simulation boots DMS or OS/8 from the CompactFlash card. As the performance is not *that* good (...), I upgraded the Core Board to run twice as fast. You can do that upgrade too, if you have installed the 6809, 6850, and 6821 in sockets. Replace these 3 chips with their "B" version, and replace the 4 MHz clock with an 8 MHz version. That's all! The RAM chip(s) and the EPROM that was delivered in the kit are fast enough to support this upgrade. The initial load of the pdp8 software is not "user friendly". I am thinking about a Floppy Expansion Board (FEB) that connects to the Core Board through the PIA socket. The 68(B)21 is installed on the FEB. The FEB has all parts to connect 2 or 3 floppy disk drives, which can be 8", 5.25", 3.5" or 3". I will test the 3.5" version, but expect the other drives sizes to operate corretly too. The controller will be the 1793. I intend to write the floppy disk drivers in the monitor, so you can use the floppy disk also in the 6809 environment. From my hobby 20+ years ago I have a self-written DOS, not compatible with FAT-12. Sorry, the PC was just 1 or 2 years old when I wrote that DOS. However, "my DOS" has all the commands you'd expect. I can make the FEB just for myself, but if there is more interest on this follow-up project, I will document this work-in-progress better than I'd do just for myself ... An other thing I am thinking about, is a new design of the Core Board to get a better performance for the pdp8/e simulation. I am looking into the possibility what speed improvements this sim would get if I rewrote the 6809 pdp8/e code into 68000. The new Core Board will of course have an 68000 (or cost reducing) 68008 clocked at 10 MHz. Any comment is welcome, but I will ignore proposals for CPLD, Atmel, etc. enjoy the pdp8/e simulation webpage! - Henk, PA8PDP. what's in a callsign :-)

21 years

2
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1979 HP Collectors Dream 2649A model computer

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> > > LOL! Anybody need an HP >>TERMINAL<<? ><http://cgi.ebay.com/1979-HP-Collectors-Dream-2649A-model-computer_W0QQitemZ >5230070472QQcategoryZ4193QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem> > > Joe > > Hi I'm dreaming but just as I reach for the keyboard, I wake up in a cold sweet. What does that mean? Dwight

21 years

8
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XTs and large hard disks

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Hi everyone! I have an old Portable PC that I put a 2MB memory card in, along with an EGA card, sound card, and some other stuff. I'm doing my best to max it out. Anyway, I'm having some trouble with hard disks. I have two hard disk controllers: a Seagate ST02 SCSI/Floppy controller, and a Juko Labs D16-X IDE controller. Now both of these cards work okay, except they recognize some strange sizes for the disks. The only disk that seems to show up correctly is a Quantum LP105S...the others I tried, all bigger than a gig, are either not recognized, or recognized with the wrong size. This is also the case with the IDE controller - everything is recognized at 10MB. I purchased an LBA PRO card for my machine hoping to overcome the large disk size problem, but all it does is freeze the machine...however, if I remove the 8088 and replace it with a NEC V20, I get the banner for the hard disk drive card, and THEN the machine freezes. So my questions are: 1. Does anyone know a good solution for putting a large drive in an XT, while still leaving it an XT? 2. Should I leave the V20 in? I've heard it has compatibility issues with some programs, but I'm not solid on my information. Regards, Julian

21 years

9
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does any read punch cards anymore?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com> > >On Wed, 31 Aug 2005, Brad Parker wrote: > >> Another punch card question. >> >> Of those who've read cards recently, was moisture a problem? i.e. did >> the cards ever swell due to moisture and then jam, or was this not a >> problem? just curious. > >Never had a problem with this. Most of the problems I have are cards that >have not been stored appropriately and have bent or otherwise deformed >over time. It's a bitch having to bend them back flat (a process of >bending with my hands, over my knee, and in some cases when they just >won't cooperate, whacking them repeatedly over the edge of a table). > Hi You should use a steam iron. Dwight

21 years

2
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DEC Tape Drive TU81 in Alabama (Ebay)

by jonathan.laventhol＠imagination.com

Hi -- Somebody's got to want a TU81 half-inch tape drive from DEC? Its in Alabama and currently no bids, start price $9.99. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mainframe-Tape-Backup-Digital-TA81-Unix-TU9QAA-DEC-NT… For me it's too far, too heavy and I've got no room, no half-inch tapes, and no PDP-11 to plug it into. Other than that, I'd have it in a minute. Regards, Jonathan.

21 years

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searching for replacement for 1793 FDC

by GOOI＠oce.nl

> >>Gooijen, Henk wrote: > >> > >>>Hi all, > >>>I am looking into the possibility to add a floppy disk interface > >>>to the 6809 Core Board. 20 years ago, so this is OT :-) , I built > >>>a floppy disk interface for my 6800 system using the 1793. > >>>I have ordered some 1793 from BG Micro, but checking the data > >>>sheet of the 1793, I noticed taht the FDC requires +12 on pin #40. > >>>I know the MB8877 is pin-compatible with the 1793, but does *not* > >>>need the +12V. > >>>I failed to locate a seller for the 8877, but I do not know "all" > >>>major part sellers in the US. JameCo, BG Micro and DigiKey do not > >>>have this part ... somebody knows a good stock of the 8877 ? > >>>I can use the 1793, +12V is "ugly", but the voltage is present as > >>>the +12V is needed for the floppy drive itself! > >>> > >>> thanks, > >>>- Henk, PA8PDP. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>Has it really be the 1793? Or might not be a 2797 design (2797 is > >>also available from BG micro) from www.swtpc.com/mholley > >>(New design for SS30 FDC) is more appropriate for "new > developments", > >>given that it doesn't need that really ugly external data separator > >>logic which always prevented me from building FDC boards (a usable > >>separator chip is more difficult to find than the FDC chip, and the > >>alternatives with a TTL-monoflop grave is not even more attractive). > >> > >>Actually, what is your real problem? You already have 12V for the > >>floppy drive, so what prevents you from feeding it into pin #40 of > >>the 1793? +12V on an otherwise +5V board is not more ugly than a > >>+25V source on an eprommer board, or +12/-5V for 2708/4116 memory > >>boards. > >> > >>Holger > >> > >> > > > >Thanks for the reply Holger. > >Your remark about the +12 for the FDC // +25 for an EPROM programmer > >is correct. I know of the existence of the 2797, but have totally > >none experience with it what-so-ever. The link that you gave is nice > >but I am not sure I can *copy* the design ... Further, I have > >several 1793 > > > > > Hi Henk, > > What appears to make the design on that page a bit difficult is the > presence of the CPLD, but this is not really required, unless you > need full SS30 compatibility, and at the price of losing some > flexibility in setting modes; the 2797 datasheet shows a really simple > application circuit. > > >here, so that is cheap for me. I would need to buy the 2797 and ship > >it to The Netherlands (sources here are not as good as in the US). > > > > > The 2797 is available from www.bgmicro.com, and they have no problems > to sell to Europe; I have ordered several times from them already, and > I guess if it works for Germany, it will also work for the Netherlands > surely it is not useful for a single 2793, but they might have more > attractive gadgets for the electronics enthusiast to reach a minimum > order limit (had never problems WRT). > > >The data separator I use with the 1793 is more stable, and built with > >a VCO (LS629, LS393 and LS153). I will look into the 2797 a bit more, > >but I guess I'll go with the 1793. I saw in the diagram of the 2797 > >that it has also 2 trimpots for the adjustment ... Not sure yet ... > > > > > They are for precompensation, and the datasheet explains how > to set them > - one better has an oscilloscope for it, but > I guess this won't be better for a 1793 either. > > Regards > Holger Yes, in my case you are better of with an 'scope too :-) But I will try to find a way to get the adjustment OK without a scope. Hmmm, that is -not- a promise ...! (I got three 1793's from BG Micro yesterday in the mail) greetz, - Henk.

21 years

1
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searching for replacement for 1793 FDC

by GOOI＠oce.nl

> Gooijen, Henk wrote: > > >Hi all, > >I am looking into the possibility to add a floppy disk interface > >to the 6809 Core Board. 20 years ago, so this is OT :-) , I built > >a floppy disk interface for my 6800 system using the 1793. > >I have ordered some 1793 from BG Micro, but checking the data > >sheet of the 1793, I noticed taht the FDC requires +12 on pin #40. > >I know the MB8877 is pin-compatible with the 1793, but does *not* > >need the +12V. > >I failed to locate a seller for the 8877, but I do not know "all" > >major part sellers in the US. JameCo, BG Micro and DigiKey do not > >have this part ... somebody knows a good stock of the 8877 ? > >I can use the 1793, +12V is "ugly", but the voltage is present as > >the +12V is needed for the floppy drive itself! > > > > thanks, > >- Henk, PA8PDP. > > > > > Has it really be the 1793? Or might not be a 2797 design (2797 is > also available from BG micro) from www.swtpc.com/mholley > (New design for SS30 FDC) is more appropriate for "new developments", > given that it doesn't need that really ugly external data separator > logic which always prevented me from building FDC boards (a usable > separator chip is more difficult to find than the FDC chip, and the > alternatives with a TTL-monoflop grave is not even more attractive). > > Actually, what is your real problem? You already have 12V for the > floppy drive, so what prevents you from feeding it into pin #40 of > the 1793? +12V on an otherwise +5V board is not more ugly than a > +25V source on an eprommer board, or +12/-5V for 2708/4116 memory > boards. > > Holger Thanks for the reply Holger. Your remark about the +12 for the FDC // +25 for an EPROM programmer is correct. I know of the existence of the 2797, but have totally none experience with it what-so-ever. The link that you gave is nice, but I am not sure I can *copy* the design ... Further, I have several 1793 here, so that is cheap for me. I would need to buy the 2797 and ship it to The Netherlands (sources here are not as good as in the US). The data separator I use with the 1793 is more stable, and built with a VCO (LS629, LS393 and LS153). I will look into the 2797 a bit more, but I guess I'll go with the 1793. I saw in the diagram of the 2797 that it has also 2 trimpots for the adjustment ... Not sure yet ... thanks, - Henk, PA8PDP.

21 years

2
1
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searching for replacement for 1793 FDC

by GOOI＠oce.nl

> -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey > Sent: dinsdag 30 augustus 2005 19:47 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: searching for replacement for 1793 FDC > > > >From: "Gooijen, Henk" <GOOI at oce.nl> > > > >> Gooijen, Henk wrote: > >> > >> >Hi all, > >> >I am looking into the possibility to add a floppy disk interface > >> >to the 6809 Core Board. 20 years ago, so this is OT :-) , I built > >> >a floppy disk interface for my 6800 system using the 1793. > >> >I have ordered some 1793 from BG Micro, but checking the data > >> >sheet of the 1793, I noticed taht the FDC requires +12 on pin #40. > >> >I know the MB8877 is pin-compatible with the 1793, but does *not* > >> >need the +12V. > >> >I failed to locate a seller for the 8877, but I do not know "all" > >> >major part sellers in the US. JameCo, BG Micro and DigiKey do not > >> >have this part ... somebody knows a good stock of the 8877 ? > >> >I can use the 1793, +12V is "ugly", but the voltage is present as > >> >the +12V is needed for the floppy drive itself! > >> > > >> > thanks, > >> >- Henk, PA8PDP. > >> > > >> > > >> Has it really be the 1793? Or might not be a 2797 design (2797 is > >> also available from BG micro) from www.swtpc.com/mholley > >> (New design for SS30 FDC) is more appropriate for "new > developments", > >> given that it doesn't need that really ugly external data > separator > >> logic which always prevented me from building FDC boards (a usable > >> separator chip is more difficult to find than the FDC chip, and the > >> alternatives with a TTL-monoflop grave is not even more > attractive). > >> > >> Actually, what is your real problem? You already have 12V for the > >> floppy drive, so what prevents you from feeding it into pin #40 of > >> the 1793? +12V on an otherwise +5V board is not more ugly than a > >> +25V source on an eprommer board, or +12/-5V for 2708/4116 memory > >> boards. > >> > >> Holger > > > >Thanks for the reply Holger. > >Your remark about the +12 for the FDC // +25 for an EPROM programmer > >is correct. I know of the existence of the 2797, but have > totally none > >experience with it what-so-ever. The link that you gave is nice, but > >I am not sure I can *copy* the design ... Further, I have > several 1793 > >here, so that is cheap for me. I would need to buy the 2797 and ship > >it to The Netherlands (sources here are not as good as in the US). > >The data separator I use with the 1793 is more stable, and built with > >a VCO (LS629, LS393 and LS153). > >I will look into the 2797 a bit more, but I guess I'll go > with the 1793. > >I saw in the diagram of the 2797 that it has also 2 trimpots for the > >adjustment ... Not sure yet ... > > > > thanks, > >- Henk, PA8PDP. > > > > > > Hi > The 2791/93 are a more flexable choice than the 2795/97. > >From my understanding of the spec sheet, the 2791/93 can > do both 5.25 and 8 inch without changing external parts. > The 2795/97 requires different clock frequencies to do > this. > You give up the side select but as was mentioned before, > I suspect that one could double up the direction bit > to also do side select or just have a port to do that. > Dwight Thanks for pointing that out Dwight! I overlooked that! Only the 2791/93 has an *internal* clock divider circuit needed when you control either 5.25" or 8" drives. For the 2795/97 this means additional external circuitry. I have in my design an octal latch to control some things, so density can be controlled with one bit from the latch. All in all, I will make my design with the (available) 1793. I only have *one* trimpot adjustment, the 279x has *two*. I will take the +12 from the power supply. The 7660 is a good suggestion, but increases the chip count by one, unnecessary. Ok, one wire added instead :-) BTW, my design should work with 8", 5.25", and 3" proven years ago, so I expect that 3.5" will work too ... time to heat up the soldering iron! thanks, - Henk, PA8PDP.

21 years

1
0
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Apple Super Serial ][ pinout

by cctech＠retro.co.za

Hi all I didn't see anyone answer Kelly's question, and since I remembered to bring my Super Serial Card manual in today... OK, this is the "Apple ][ Super Serial Card" which I hope is the same as an "Apple Super Serial ][" card... The "Cable Socket" is a 10 pin right angle looks like 0.1" pitch connector. The schematic seems to indicate Pin Name Goes to 1 FRMGND R7 100R to GND 2 TxD Pin 6 on jumper block 3 RxD Pin 12 on jumper block 4 RTS Pin 4 on jumper block 5 CTS Pin 2 on jumper block 6 DSR Pin 10 on jumper block 7 SCTS Pin 8 on switch 2 8 SGLGND GND 9 DTR Pin 8 on jumper block 10 DCD Pins 14 and 16 on jumper block HTH W

21 years

1
0
0 0

Fw: TRS-80 floppy drive compatibility (MISSING MESSAGE)

by infomagic＠localisp.com

In issue 54, I received two replies to the message I sent Saturday evening, but my original message was not in any of issues 53, 54, or 55. I have noticed this kind of "disconnect" before, both with my own message and with messages from others. I receive the cctech "daily digest" (often there are many each day), and I send my messages individually from my email client to the cctech at classiccmp.org address. If there is a message board or forum, I am not aware of it. Am I missing something in my communications connections? Are you folks using some other tools or websites? Was my messge deliberately deleted, or has it not arrived in the digest yet? Is this a normal behavior, or a symptom of something I'm not doing right? Thanks for any help you can provide, -John M. -----Original message----- From: infomagic infomagic at localisp.com Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:46:20 -0400 To: cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: TRS-80 floppy drive compatibility I have a Tandy CoCo that had been used with 2 floppy drives. Can I just unplug the drives and use them with a Model I, III, or IV ?? TIA, -John

21 years

2
1
0 0

Attention AIX weenies

by spectre＠floodgap.com

Or studs, if you prefer. I'm dealing with an AIX 4.1.5 system (can't be upgraded higher than this; it's unsupported hardware). This is *nearly* on topic, the box is circa 1996-7 (an Apple Network Server 500). It has 512MB of RAM and a 200MHz 604e CPU board, and a single 18.4GB SCSI-2 drive (non-RAID). It hummed along very happily until recently when it started hanging up during backup jobs. Watching it run with vmstat, I noticed that after the free page count gets under minfree a couple times (eight seems about average), it hangs up. lsps -a just before the freeze shows barely a couple percent of the paging space being used, and the avm usage count in vmstat is hardly out of the ordinary for this system, so I don't think it's running out of paging space. Increasing it 1.5x didn't make any difference anyway. Turning down maxperm to reduce the number of file pages allocated by the AIX VMM didn't make any difference either (I presume the problem is file pages since the backup job is basically a tar over the network). Right now I'm solving the problem by setting maxfree stupidly high so that whenever the free count gets under minfree, the VMM will release a massive bolus of free RAM pages (presumably from the file cache pool) and thus keep the system as far away from hitting minfree again for as long as possible. However, this is technically disgusting and can't be a good idea for filesystem performance. Hardware checks out and RAM checks out (both the power-on "LONG RAM TEST" -- and it sure is long -- and the Apple-supplied diagnostic disk). What can I do to improve this? Is this a bug in 4.1.5? -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Aibohphobia, the fear of palindromes. -- Brian Braunschweiger --------------

21 years

1
0
0 0

Anyone here in NOLA?

by vcf＠siconic.com

I hope and pray that no one here got stuck in the nightmare that is unfolding in the South. This is a calamity of Biblical proportions, and something I'd only wish on people that I truly hate. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years

2
1
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Anyone here in NOLA?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Anyone here in NOLA? > From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf at siconic.com> > Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:50:03 -0700 (PDT) > To: Classic Computers Mailing List <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >I hope and pray that no one here got stuck in the nightmare that is >unfolding in the South. This is a calamity of Biblical proportions, and >something I'd only wish on people that I truly hate. > Being an active ham I sometimes work the traffic nets on VHF. For a disaster of this magnitude and local comms bing munged badly that amounts to handling "health and welfare" traffic either originating here in MA or desitined for down there from here. There are more local to that area hams active in establishing local comms so that messages can move in and out of the area as well as local coordination of agencies (FEMA, Local gov., Red Cross, Salvation Army and others.). I happen to have traveled to the hardest hit area a few years ago and as it is none of the known landmarks are standing. This will leave a lasting effect greater than Camile did many years ago. Allison

21 years

1
0
0 0

does any read punch cards anymore?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

Remember punchcards? Does anyone read them these days? I'm just curious if anyone does, and if they do, how they do it. Someone approached me with some tapes to read and they also had 2 boxes of cards. I remember a nifty desktop card reader attached to a PDP-8/L once. I never used it but it sure seems like it would be easy/fun to wire it up to something more modern. Do small desktop card readers exist anymore? Anyone got one? (I can hear the chorus now - "medication time!" :-) -brad

21 years

15
25
0 0

OT: History Channel show on "Wiring America"

by news＠computercollector.com

9:00PM tonight on Modern Marvels, and again at 1:00AM. ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Also see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ Where did PDAs come from? http://www.snarc.net/pda/pda-treatise.htm *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 775 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years

2
1
0 0

Any Data I/O 29B / PROMlink 6.10 / LogiPak experts out there?

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

Trying to get the ball rolling with my recently-aquired Data I/O 29B, I have PROMlink 6.10 working perfectly with the Unipak 2B, testing out operations with some TI 27C256s, but I'm having problems getting the LogicPak to cooperate. >From inside PROMlink 6.10, I can send Intel Hex files to the 29B when the Unipak 2B is loaded, I can verify devices, I can blank check, and it all works. Referencing the "using computer remote control" application note, when the LogicPak is loaded, I can manually send commands from page 4 like "HHHH @" to set the device family code (the right socket lights up), "[" to return the device family code, "B" for blank check (and it _can_ tell blank from non blank parts), and "T" for illegal bit test... However, as soon as I pick an in-app operation that goes out to the programmer, it spins a character-based "in progress" flag for 8-10 seconds while "setting up" the programmer, then I get a red dialog box that says... "Timeout ... ... while sending VERIFY PASSES to the programmer" and I can't get any operations initiated (blank check, load, etc). Does this ring any bells with anyone? I've never worked with logic devices and Data I/O hardware - we had an older programmer at Software Results, perhaps a Data I/O 19. I used to program 6309 PROMs and lots of 2764-27512-sized EPROMs on it from the console pad. I'm new to a) PROMlink, and b) the LogicPak. Also, if anyone has LogicPak firmware newer than 1992, that might be nice to play with, too. Thanks, -ethan

21 years

1
0
0 0

6800 opcode $02

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

Does anyone know what Opcode $02 is on a Motorola 6800 processor. It's not defined in the data sheet, but I have a device which forces that instruction onto the data bus in one of the test modes. Is it, by any chance, the infamous HCF instruction? -tony

21 years

5
5
0 0

Fw: [8bitcomp] Digest Number 317

by geoffreythomas＠onetel.com

Anyone interested in Apple II stuff. Posted on 8-bit comp. website - self evident really. :>) Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: <8bitcomp at yahoogroups.com> To: <8bitcomp at yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:58 PM Subject: [8bitcomp] Digest Number 317 > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> > Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/5ryolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > There is 1 message in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Lots of free Apple II software > From: "genoman45" <genoman45 at yahoo.com> > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:44:29 -0000 > From: "genoman45" <genoman45 at yahoo.com> > Subject: Lots of free Apple II software > > I found a few boxes full of Apple II software in my basement. Most > are in their original packages that remain unopened. Some packages > are open - but all is original software. > > I have no way to check to determine if the software is good. I can > throw it all out or give it away if it still is desired stuff to > someone. I live near Minneapolis. I am also willing to ship it for > the cost of UPS shipping. I guess I have 40 pounds of software and > some cards like the CP/M card and the serial card. They appear to be > in good shape. I do not want to pick through it and will give it all > away or ship it all. In other words, take it all or none - It is free > stuff after all. > > Best Buy started in St. Paul and in their first year or so they bought > out a small computer-electronic shop. That shop had Apple II software > and the new manager wanted to get rid of all of it, so he told me he > would sell it to me for a fixed price. My son, then age 11, sold some > of the software at user meetings and to friends. He did OK with it > and learned a lot about business in the process. But he did not go > through it all and left it in boxes - that is what I found in our > basement. > > Let me know if you are interested. Please put Apple II somewhere in > your email subject line and your phone number would be helpful. > > It is great to see that 8-bit is not completely dead. > > Gene > > genek at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/8bitcomp/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > 8bitcomp-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/86 - Release Date: 31/08/05 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/86 - Release Date: 31/08/05

21 years

1
0
0 0

TD100 delay line chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: TD100 delay line chip? > From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> > Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:02:10 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >The question about the ttl oscillator jogged my memory. > >Anyone recognize a line of "delay line" chips with names like TD25, >TD50, TD100, etc... The look they were expensive at the time, like $10 >around 1976. > >The TD100 pinout looks like this: > > +------+ >input | 1 14 | vcc > | 2 13 | > | 3 12 | 20ns >40ns | 4 11 | > | 5 10 | 60s >80ns | 6 9 | >gnd | 7 8 | 100ns > +------+ > >I don't have an exact part number or mfg. (I know where I can find one >but it's not easy and will take some work) > >I want to model these in verilog but I'm not exactly sure how they work. >They are delay lines, but I'm not sure how they react. The input seems >to be a short pulse from high to low of about 40ns. I'm assuming this >produces an approx 40ns pulse after the prescibed delay, but I'm not >entirely sure. > >I would love to see a few pages from a data book which describes how >these react (enough to model them correctly). > >any pointers? Treat it as if it were a transmission line with length N. The rough length for wire is 1ns/ft but if the wire is wound around a grounded metallic form the wire to ground acts like a transmission line and the insulation sets the spacing hence characteristic impedence as well as velocity factor. Allowing for velocity factor the 1ns/ft can be be more like 1.5ns/ft. So winding 30ft of #42 wire is actually compact and a substantial delay. I did a DL for the 16k muxed Drams that way and found I could easily measure the delay and trim the timing very accurately. It was far more stable than RC oneshots (74121/123/9602) it was stable too. During testing I was using rolls of RG174 (50 ohm .125 dia coax with a VF of .66). Turns out that even a 100ft roll was way too long. Bulky but easy to get 15ns (about 117.3 inches) delay accuratly. Allison

21 years

1
0
0 0

TD100 delay line chip?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Brad Parker" <brad at heeltoe.com> > > >The question about the ttl oscillator jogged my memory. > >Anyone recognize a line of "delay line" chips with names like TD25, >TD50, TD100, etc... The look they were expensive at the time, like $10 >around 1976. > >The TD100 pinout looks like this: > > +------+ >input | 1 14 | vcc > | 2 13 | > | 3 12 | 20ns >40ns | 4 11 | > | 5 10 | 60s >80ns | 6 9 | >gnd | 7 8 | 100ns > +------+ > >I don't have an exact part number or mfg. (I know where I can find one >but it's not easy and will take some work) > >I want to model these in verilog but I'm not exactly sure how they work. >They are delay lines, but I'm not sure how they react. The input seems >to be a short pulse from high to low of about 40ns. I'm assuming this >produces an approx 40ns pulse after the prescibed delay, but I'm not >entirely sure. Hi This is generally true. You can assume that the intent is to delay any edge by the specified time. If the pulse was longer or shorter, it is as though both edges took some time to get to the output pins. For the longer delays, these used actual delay lines, composed of inductance and capacitance. I would assume that in verilog, it was just a # delay. The various taps delay events at the input by the specified amounts. Dwight > >I would love to see a few pages from a data book which describes how >these react (enough to model them correctly). > >any pointers? > >-brad >

21 years

2
1
0 0

TD100 delay line chip?

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

They're just LC delay lines with schmitt output buffers. Each delay step is a T network with the L component on the arms of the T and the C component to ground. Any signal on the input appears xx nanoseconds later on each of the tap outputs. Lee. ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

21 years

1
0
0 0

Reading DECtapes (was 1/2" tape cleaner?)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I think that Al Kossow has lots of experience reading old DECtapes based on the good DecTape archives that he has on bitsavers. Al, can you share a little of your experience and insight with the rest of us? How well do these things hold up 30-35 years later when they are actually being read and written to on a TU56? -- very, very well. The tapes have redundant track encoding, they are pretty low density, and the formulation doesn't stick. I've read tapes from the mid 60's w/o a problem. I have a bit-level reader with custom read amps coming to deal with the couple of marginal tapes and LINCtapes that I have. -- 1/2" tapes, on the other hand, are a total PITA.

21 years

3
2
0 0

Anyone got a plain ASCII Windows font?

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: Does anyone have an ASCII/terminal font for Windows that has only the standard ASCII chars (32-127) which are also replicated at the extended address (i.e., 160-255) instead of the PC OEM graphics chars? I can't find a way to force 7-bit ASCII chars in Tera Term so when I use it with my Altair I frequently get PC graphics characters on the screen. I have a font editing program but you have to edit each character individually. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

21 years

11
19
0 0

Modcomp Computer?

by technobug＠comcast.net

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:53:55 -0400, Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> wrote: > I don't know about Modcomp, but that's not the IBM way. IBM had > amazingly primitive file systems (at least through OS/360), but not > quite *that* primitive. You could create files at anytime, but only > through JCL. (Actually, I think it was possible to create files under > program control, but not via the standard APIs.) > > [...] > paul > You are talking about big iron here. The IBM 1800, SEL, and Modcomp were essentially toys which used a preallocated file system to ensure speed in file access. All files were guaranteed contiguous and of know size. The editor, compiler, and linker each had their own segments which they individually managed. The editor would create "files" within its segment. The JCL on these machines was quite rudimentary and did not include any capability to re-hack the file system. You could always design an application to partition and manage one of the preallocated segments. I remember having to re-sysgen the system numerous time while we were designing the application in order to optimize the file sizes. CRC

21 years

3
2
0 0

6800 opcode $02

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: 6800 opcode $02 > From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey at amd.com> > Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:44:34 -0700 (PDT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > >Hi > On the 8080, one just has pullups on the bus and >it will do continuous restart interrupts. This >will cycle through the addresses for the push part of >the instruction. This is handy for testing address >decoders, especially when working with boards of >unknown design. > I wasn't aware that the 6800 had a similar method. >Dwight > Not quite the same. The 8080 RST (also works for z80 and 8085) will revert to normal operation if rom(or any instruction source) is encountered. The HCF required hard reset to escape as it was not a useful instruction. Hence the name Halt and Catch Fire. Allison

21 years

1
0
0 0

Does anybody know what this chip is?

by RMeenaks＠OLF.COM

Turns out to be the wrong chip :-( The person who mailed me the specs sent the wrong chip info. Yes, it is a crystal oscillator. The actual part info I was looking for was a82786 18062010 85 87 which I think is a graphics chip >from Intel... Sorry about that, Ram > -----Original Message----- > From: Dwight K. Elvey [mailto:dwight.elvey at amd.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 12:56 PM > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Does anybody know what this chip is? > > > >From: "Ram Meenakshisundaram" <RMeenaks at olf.com> > >> > >It is labeled as: > > > >iqx0-500c 50,000000mhz dbg > > > >Thanks, > > > >Ram > > > > Hi > Sure sounds like a crystal oscillator to me as well. > They are mostly in metal cans but also often in plastic > cases. They usually only had 4 pins but I've seen some > with 14 or 16 pins. Usually only 3 pins are used unless > there is an adjust or enable input as well. > Dwight > >

21 years

3
2
0 0

Does anybody know what this chip is?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Ram Meenakshisundaram" <RMeenaks at olf.com> >> >It is labeled as: > >iqx0-500c 50,000000mhz dbg > >Thanks, > >Ram > Hi Sure sounds like a crystal oscillator to me as well. They are mostly in metal cans but also often in plastic cases. They usually only had 4 pins but I've seen some with 14 or 16 pins. Usually only 3 pins are used unless there is an adjust or enable input as well. Dwight

21 years

1
0
0 0

6800 opcode $02

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi On the 8080, one just has pullups on the bus and it will do continuous restart interrupts. This will cycle through the addresses for the push part of the instruction. This is handy for testing address decoders, especially when working with boards of unknown design. I wasn't aware that the 6800 had a similar method. Dwight >From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> > >The 6800 indeed had HCF and while I forget the opcode >(not a regular 6800 user) it was real. Basically if >the opcode was encountered the chip executed bus cycles >and did nothing else till reset. Story then was it >enabled some level of factory testing of the die for >the is it even alive test. > > >Allison > >> >>Subject: Re: 6800 opcode $02 >> From: "J.C. Wren" <jcwren at jcwren.com> >> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:45:00 -0400 >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> >> I'd suggest finding a VHDL or Verilog implementation, and see if >>that provides any insight. Also, Google for '6800 undocumented opcodes' >>(no quotes). There are a number of hits. Most seem to indicate that >>the undocumented opcode (no value given) causes the processor to go into >>a mode where there are no instruction fetchs, but the address bus runs >>incrementing bus cycles. >> >> --jc >> >>Scott Stevens wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 17:53:59 +0100 (BST) >>>ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Does anyone know what Opcode $02 is on a Motorola 6800 processor. It's >>>> >>>>not defined in the data sheet, but I have a device which forces that >>>>instruction onto the data bus in one of the test modes. >>>> >>>>Is it, by any chance, the infamous HCF instruction? >>>> >>>>-tony >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Hmm, all the other $0x opcodes on the table are inherent instructions >>>that mess with the condition code register. Looking at the order of the >>>bits in the instructions, I don't see an order that corresponds with >>>good old HINZVC (we were required to memorize this, the order of the >>>bits in the condition code register, in tech school) >>> >>>0a clears overflow (V) >>>0b sets overflow (V) >>>0c clears carry (C) >>>0d sets carry (C) >>>0e clears interrupt mask (I) >>>0f sets interrupt mask (I) >>> >>>The lower instructions defined are >>>06 Accumulator A to CCR >>>07 CCR to Accumulator A >>> >>> >>>Is there a bit-level 'Opcode Breakdown' reference for the 6800 >>>processor, that defines bit field and gives clues to how the opcodes are >>>translated in hardware, like there is (it's an elaborate table and I >>>even have a machine language Textbook that drags you through it all on >>>an early chapter) for the 8086 processor? >>> >>>The good old 6800. 'Freescale' : bah! >>> >>> >>> >

21 years

1
0
0 0

Does anybody know what this chip is?

by RMeenaks＠OLF.COM

It is labeled as: iqx0-500c 50,000000mhz dbg Thanks, Ram

21 years

3
2
0 0

Modcomp Computer?

by technobug＠comcast.net

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:07:04 -0700 (PDT), Jeff Davis" <jdaviscl2 at soupwizard.com> wrote: [...] > The color scheme was brown and white, titled "Modular Computer > Systems", with a ModComp logo. What you found was a Modcomp II, a 16-bitter with 64 kwords of memory. The machine was modeled (ala SEL) on the IBM 1800 series controllers and were used primarily in communications and process control. There were produced in the 1974-78 period, or thereabouts. The design was interesting in that it used microcode which could be extended through a microword bus. Consequently, unused instructions were used for floating point, communications controllers, etc. OS was multi-tasked, priortized, and fully pre-emptive. The file system was ala IBM: you allocated your files at sysgen time. They were quick machines for the time. > The insides were odd - instead of the usual card cages, a lever let > you pull > out a sliding tray with (very rough est.) 15 x 15 inch cards that > were mounted > on an accordian style fold-out bracket, which I couldn't figure out > how to > fold out. There is a knob on top of each plane which when pulled up allows the plane to swing open. By far the easiest computer to work on I've run across... > They were interconnected with various flat cables. The outside > most card was wire-wrapped, I couldn't see much of the other cards > but I got > the card names and part#s of all of them: > > 1 of Loop Controller, 551-100169-001 > 1 of MC II Plane I, 551-100140-001 > 1 of MC II Plane I, 551-100140-001 > 4 of 16K memory, 551-100069-001 IIRC all the planes, with the exception of the memory were wire- wrapped and all ICs are socketed. What makes these planes unique is that the power regulation is at the top on each plane. Raw DC is provided from some honkin' supplies located at the back of the drawer. The original IIs were implemented in 74Hxx (read very hot, but not too fast) and consequently there are IIRC 9 fans on the bottom of the drawer. Generally, I/O was housed in plain boxes beneith/along side the computer, but constructed with the same planes as the main computer. However, these planes were oriented horizontally. I ran one in an experiment during the period 1975-78. It was mounted in a trailer which traveled over 10k miles over the period of the experiment - damn reliable beast. > Anyone know what this is? If anyone wants it, it's located in > Santa Barbara, > California - email me and I can give you the contact info for the > surplus > department there (or google "surplus ucsb"). I'll try to get out > there on > thursday and take some pictures if anyone is interested. > > Jeff I would love to see some pictures :-)) CRC

21 years

3
2
0 0

On Ebay: Dolphin SBUS-SCI Adapters

by RMeenaks＠OLF.COM

If anyone wants to run a beowulfe cluster using a bunch of SBUS-based UNIX-boxes, this is a great way to start. It comes with 5 adapters... http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-5-Dolphin-SBus-SCI-SPARC-Cluster-Adapter-Cards_W0 QQitemZ5803708439QQcategoryZ3668QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem You can download MPI for Solaris which supports this (get ClusterTools for Solaris from SUN).... Ram

21 years

1
0
0 0

On Ebay: Sbus to VME Adapter

by RMeenaks＠OLF.COM

I have one of these on my Ultra 2 and they are actually pretty neat. Bought one from the same guy on ebay too.. http://cgi.ebay.com/SBS915-SBus-to-VME-Adapter-Kit-NIB_W0QQitemZ5803947596QQ categoryZ51239QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Ram

21 years

1
0
0 0

Free VAX PDP-11

by aw288＠osfn.org

OK, now that I have your attention, an odd question... How often do we reckon that a freebie big machine (PDP-11, VAX, Eclipse, and so on - NOT micros) gets posted (or crossposted) to this list? Once a week on average? I suppose I could scan the archives and do all sorts of studies, but that sounds like WAY TOO MUCH WORK to settle my curiosity. William Donzelli aw288 at osfn.org

21 years

3
2
0 0

Bit of CP/M trivia needed

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Bit of CP/M trivia needed > From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey at amd.com> > Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 18:04:53 -0700 (PDT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> >---snip--- >> >>All the S100 machine of early origin were front pannel >>(switches and lights) and few had rom/eprom. > >Hi Allison > Yes, eproms were expensive. Ah just to set a point. I still have the first 32byte fuseprom and 1702 I'd ever bought. It's very painful for me to know how much I paid for them. So for a fact I do know they were expensive and also tough to get because as both an engineer and hobbiest I was there buying them. >> Most all >>used hardware IO and a hand toggled in boot (assuming >>the controller didn't have a bootrom). Most of the >>people doing it were running far lighter hardware >>than you have there. Most of the heavey geeks were >>using stuff like PT ALS8 systems to bootstrap to >>CP/M for the first time. Me I plodded through a >>lot of hand toggling plus my tape based system. > > I did this also to get my first level of bootstrap >running and saved to the disk. I'll admit that I did >take advantage of having a PC laptop to use as >large external data storage to minimize the amount >of toggling. Still, I made a formatting program, >first level bootstrap and BIOS through the front panel >with the serial input. I used no monitor program, >just a simple serial-input-to-memory program that I >toggled in. > I can imagine how much more effort there would have >been without the external mass storage. Even a minimum >of toggling and paper tape would be quite painful. That not even the first level guess. It was harder because there was little experience out there to draw from and if you had a disk early on likely you were one of the few. So there was a lot of by the seat of the pants and sweat to make things work. I'm talking prior to 1977 as that summer a lot more system with matching disks started to appear (NS* was one) and the market was ready. >>Even then it was load the available image on SSSD 8" >>then overlay the drivers by hand (switches or monitor >>program) then save it to whatever before a trial boot. >>Early on there were very few disk systems and fewer >>that were plug and go for CP/M. Usual case was >>migrating from available hardware and non-CP/M software >>to CP/M. Did that for both 8" and NS* 5.25 and also the >>NEC PDA-80 I had. To this day I cringe when I do a >>first boot even thugh I have moden tools and usually >>boot from EPROM instead. Such is memory of the process. > > You always wonder if the program you just toggled in >is going the wipe out all the work you previously >entered. Or worse, wipe out a CP/M distribution disk. !$%^&, Now I"m going to have them nightmares again. Really, it happened too often. The day I put in the NS* controller toggled E900h (ok it was 351,000 split octal) into the Altair front pannel hit loadaddr then run was like I could hear a chorus. Boots thereafter were almost reliable. Once the NS* chassis arrived the Altair was retired and reliability was established. >> >>It wasn't until around late '77 (same time I got my NS*) >>that I started seeing turnkey machines as the norm. > > As you state, normal turnkey used boot ROMs/EPROMs. One >might consider my setup to be turnkey but it isn't a >normal turnkey. There is no boot ROM/EPROM. It just uses >the normal reset of the controller without main CPU >interaction. It is not fully automatic since I do need >to hit the reset and wait for the disk to complete before >enabling the computer to go. Almost full turnkey. >Dwight ==An aside from the questio to set background============= Two address history you have to understand the enviroment as many experienced it. Cheap computers then was any machine under 5000$. Back then $5000 was a good down payment on a house in the northeast. The significance is that your hardware was not typical nor commonly seen. Most of the people didn't have that kind of money and likely before early '77 it didn't exist. More typical was a PT SOL/W NS* or NS*, SWTP 6800 systems and a few maybe of the Altair or Imsai style plus a few bare bones scratch builts. I attended more than a few LICA (Long Island [NY] Computer Assoc) meetings where the common machine was an ELF more maybe an AMD EVK68 (6800 SBC), Moto 6800D1 or National SC/MP. I was somewhat of an oddity as I had by then Altair, SC/MP, ELF and even a Technico Super Starter board (TI9900) by time the TRS80 was just appearing. In the whole association I think there were maybe 8 of maybe 100+ that even had a working disk. Just so you have an idea. If you had a disk in early 1977 and ran CP/M likely your outlay in Dollar$ was in the range of 4500-6000+(US$) into it and that didn't include a terminal or TTY (add ~1000$). Around then a new Chevy C20 4wd truck was 3800$ for comparison. To run CP/M 1.3 or 1.4 you needed a minimum of 16k of ram, a disk with controller, IO board, terminal and an 8080. In 1976 summer: Some of the 1977 list items were unotainium. Those items that could be bought were roughly 2x the 1977 price. IE 16K of ram was $1000. 1977 summer cost: Barebones Altair or Imsai ($395 kit) SA400 (not the 400L) $399 new 8K ram board seals/PT/IMS $259(kit) Floppy controller ($699[kit] with 1st drive NS*) ICOM FDC and disk(sa400) $1095 Z80 CPU (NS* $199) Serial IO card 159$ Tarbel cassette interface $120(kit) TTY used $800-900, VDM-1 199(kit) Printer (see tty) In 1978 that stuff would be around half the price. In late 1978 I took a Data structures in pascal course in college at night. Of the professors 200+ students I was one of 6 that owned a computer (not a pocket calc) of some sort and one of two that had a disk and could run UCSD pascal. Back then a personal computer was _any_ hardware that was owned personally. ======================================================== Allison

21 years

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OT: Help! Sun Ultra 1 HD replacement?

by korpela＠gmail.com

> Just do a search on Google or eBay > for "SCA SCSI" (loose the quotes). > > > How much should I expect to pay? > > Depends on where you get the drive, and how big. I typically get > used ones for free. A new one will run you anywhere from $200 on up. If you look on pricewatch you can find new 9GB SCA drives for $15. They only get expensive if you are looking for 72GB or 144GB drives. Eric

21 years

5
4
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Bit of CP/M trivia needed

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> ---snip--- > >All the S100 machine of early origin were front pannel >(switches and lights) and few had rom/eprom. Hi Allison Yes, eproms were expensive. > Most all >used hardware IO and a hand toggled in boot (assuming >the controller didn't have a bootrom). Most of the >people doing it were running far lighter hardware >than you have there. Most of the heavey geeks were >using stuff like PT ALS8 systems to bootstrap to >CP/M for the first time. Me I plodded through a >lot of hand toggling plus my tape based system. I did this also to get my first level of bootstrap running and saved to the disk. I'll admit that I did take advantage of having a PC laptop to use as large external data storage to minimize the amount of toggling. Still, I made a formatting program, first level bootstrap and BIOS through the front panel with the serial input. I used no monitor program, just a simple serial-input-to-memory program that I toggled in. I can imagine how much more effort there would have been without the external mass storage. Even a minimum of toggling and paper tape would be quite painful. >Even then it was load the available image on SSSD 8" >then overlay the drivers by hand (switches or monitor >program) then save it to whatever before a trial boot. >Early on there were very few disk systems and fewer >that were plug and go for CP/M. Usual case was >migrating from available hardware and non-CP/M software >to CP/M. Did that for both 8" and NS* 5.25 and also the >NEC PDA-80 I had. To this day I cringe when I do a >first boot even thugh I have moden tools and usually >boot from EPROM instead. Such is memory of the process. You always wonder if the program you just toggled in is going the wipe out all the work you previously entered. Or worse, wipe out a CP/M distribution disk. > >It wasn't until around late '77 (same time I got my NS*) >that I started seeing turnkey machines as the norm. As you state, normal turnkey used boot ROMs/EPROMs. One might consider my setup to be turnkey but it isn't a normal turnkey. There is no boot ROM/EPROM. It just uses the normal reset of the controller without main CPU interaction. It is not fully automatic since I do need to hit the reset and wait for the disk to complete before enabling the computer to go. Almost full turnkey. Dwight > > >Allison > > PS As Joe mentioned, I did go off subject and should have started another thread. For that I apologize.

21 years

1
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Got four boxes of mags

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

UPS dropped off the following yesterday and boy is it fun reading and looking at the pictures from long ago. Right I'm looking a Special issue of Popular Computing dated March 1983 with a picture of the Lisa I on the cover a and Part 1 of a large write-up of the Lisa. Creative Computing 1983: APR MAY AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC 1984: ALL 1985: ALL On Computing (Complete) 1979: SUM FAL WIN 1980: SPR SUM FAL WIN 1981: SPR SUM FAL Popular Computing (from premier issue) 1981: NOV DEC 1982: ALL 1983: ALL 1984: JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN SCCS Interface 1975: DEC 1976: JAN MAR APR MAY JUN JUL DEC 1977: JAN FEB JUL AUG SEP Interface Age 1976: AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC 1977: JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT 1978: OCT BYTE (from premier issue) 1975: SEP OCT NOV DEC 1976: ALL 1977: ALL 1978: ALL 1979: ALL 1980: ALL 1981: JAN FEB MAR APR

21 years

1
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Portable Altair

by news＠computercollector.com

Hi folks, I posted this message tonight to a couple of Altair sites, but might as well ask on the big list too: does anyone know about the existence of a portable Altair, which was designed as the "Altair 2"...? According to Steven Levy's book "Hackers" (p. 257), by mid-1976, Ed Roberts "had been designing an exciting new Altair 2 computer -- a high-powered, compact machine which could fit inside a briefcase" before selling the company to Pertec. I'm more interested in the computer's size / form factor than its technical abilities, since I mostly study the history of portable systems. - Evan ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Also see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ Where did PDAs come from? http://www.snarc.net/pda/pda-treatise.htm *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 770 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years

5
6
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searching for replacement for 1793 FDC

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Hi all, I am looking into the possibility to add a floppy disk interface to the 6809 Core Board. 20 years ago, so this is OT :-) , I built a floppy disk interface for my 6800 system using the 1793. I have ordered some 1793 from BG Micro, but checking the data sheet of the 1793, I noticed taht the FDC requires +12 on pin #40. I know the MB8877 is pin-compatible with the 1793, but does *not* need the +12V. I failed to locate a seller for the 8877, but I do not know "all" major part sellers in the US. JameCo, BG Micro and DigiKey do not have this part ... somebody knows a good stock of the 8877 ? I can use the 1793, +12V is "ugly", but the voltage is present as the +12V is needed for the floppy drive itself! thanks, - Henk, PA8PDP.

21 years

3
2
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OT: Help! Sun Ultra 1 HD replacement?

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, Apologies, I'm probably at least 2 years off-topic. Have a Sun Ultra 1 with a non-functional Quantum hard drive, model number seems to be VK45JZF1. It's in a sled with a lever on the front, and the connector is a funky thing with a central ridge rather than pins. This is for a work project. Where can I find a replacement fairly quickly? How much should I expect to pay? What's with the strange interface? Replies here would be better, on-list OK. TIA! -- - Mark 210-522-6025, temporary cell 240-375-2995

21 years

5
4
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TRS-80 floppy drive compatibility

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

and you hot swapped puters? Pardon the dopey question. And shouldnt peecee drives work with either? I know they will with a mod 3/4. --- cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > > > I have a Tandy CoCo that had been used with 2 floppy drives. > > > > Can I just unplug the drives and use them with a Model I, III, or IV ?? > > I certainly used a CoCo floppy drive unit (the FD501 one I think) on my > Model 3 for a time, so it should work on the Model 4 too (same disk > controller). And I see no good reason why it wouldn't work on a model 1. > > I even used one of those cheap mechanical printer swtichboxes (with 36 > pin Blue Ribbon connectors) to switch the drives between the CoCo and the > Model 3. Made up a couple of cables with edge connectors on one end, Blue > Ribbon on the other, and crimped a Blue Ribbon plug onto the cable coming > out of the drive box. Looking at the mess of wiring inside the switchbox > told me it shouldn't work (noise everywhere!), but amazingly I had no > problems... > > -tony __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

21 years

2
1
0 0

Bit of CP/M trivia needed

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Bit of CP/M trivia needed > From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey at amd.com> > Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:29:16 -0700 (PDT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> >> >>> >>>Subject: Re: Bit of CP/M trivia needed >>> From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey at amd.com> >>> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:14:15 -0700 (PDT) >>> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >>> >>-------snip----------> >> >>>> I don't think so. CPM was first written by Gary Kidall for the Intel >>>>MDS-800 (go read the CPM docs) and they NEVER had DMA capability. They used >>>>a 2k bit bootstrap loaded in a 1702 EPROM. Here is a picture of a MDS-800 >>>>with THE actual 1702 Boot EPROM >>> >>>Hi >>> Yes, what I meant to say was for the S-100. I was told that the first >>>S-100 implementation used this type of board. I knew Gary used a >>>MDS-800. >>>Dwight >> >>No. Most (if not all) of the first S100 system had front pannels >>(ALTAIR AND IMSAI Were the first!). The few that didn't had some form >>of rom monitor to simulate a fronpannel via TTY such as Poly-88, >>Processor tech SOL and others. > >Hi > What does a front panel have to do with what I stated? > I am familiar with the MDS800 having worked for >Intel and written both assembly and PLM80 for it. >I was also responsible for testing of the 1036 card >( the PLL used in the M2FM board set ). So, I do understand >the disk I/O of the MDS800. I made no claim as to >how a MDS800 works( please read previous mails ). >As I corrected, I was not intending to make a claim about >the first ever CP/M ( again please read previous mail in >context ) but felt that from the context of the conversation >that we were talking about S-100 machines. I tried to clarify >this misconception that I was talking about the MDS800 in >a previous mail ( again please read ), I was not talking about >the MDS800. Reminising old hardware. Even the MDS800 was second generation. > All I'm saying is that I was told that this particular >DMA based interface was used for the first implementation >on the S-100 of CP/M. This was told me by another fellow >many years ago. I don't recall the fellows name but he >seemed at the time to be honest enough since he had nothing >to sell or gain by such a comment. He claimed to have some >involvement in that process. If you don't like that you >can just shoot me and be done with it but, please, don't >put words in my mouth. >Dwight The first time I'd seen DMA hardware of any kind was 1977 (years after) and it was used for a calcomp platter (10mb removable) I was told the system cost 30K$ All the S100 machine of early origin were front pannel (switches and lights) and few had rom/eprom. Most all used hardware IO and a hand toggled in boot (assuming the controller didn't have a bootrom). Most of the people doing it were running far lighter hardware than you have there. Most of the heavey geeks were using stuff like PT ALS8 systems to bootstrap to CP/M for the first time. Me I plodded through a lot of hand toggling plus my tape based system. Even then it was load the available image on SSSD 8" then overlay the drivers by hand (switches or monitor program) then save it to whatever before a trial boot. Early on there were very few disk systems and fewer that were plug and go for CP/M. Usual case was migrating from available hardware and non-CP/M software to CP/M. Did that for both 8" and NS* 5.25 and also the NEC PDA-80 I had. To this day I cringe when I do a first boot even thugh I have moden tools and usually boot from EPROM instead. Such is memory of the process. It wasn't until around late '77 (same time I got my NS*) that I started seeing turnkey machines as the norm. Allison

21 years

2
1
0 0

VAX 4000-705

by birs23＠zeelandnet.nl

I just got given two VAX 4000-705's. I still have to pick them up though. But I was just wondering if anyone has any picture's of one ? And perhaps tell me something about it ? Stefan. ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oldcomputercollection.com

21 years

11
12
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GEC computers models 4195 and 4185

by info＠museum-of-computing.org.uk

Is there anyone with any experience of these machines? If so there might be some work available providing some initial support or training to a company that needs to keep these going! Contact me at swebb at cix.co.uk Simon

21 years

1
0
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Bit of CP/M trivia needed

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Bit of CP/M trivia needed > From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey at amd.com> > Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:14:15 -0700 (PDT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > -------snip----------> >> I don't think so. CPM was first written by Gary Kidall for the Intel >>MDS-800 (go read the CPM docs) and they NEVER had DMA capability. They used >>a 2k bit bootstrap loaded in a 1702 EPROM. Here is a picture of a MDS-800 >>with THE actual 1702 Boot EPROM > >Hi > Yes, what I meant to say was for the S-100. I was told that the first >S-100 implementation used this type of board. I knew Gary used a >MDS-800. >Dwight No. Most (if not all) of the first S100 system had front pannels (ALTAIR AND IMSAI Were the first!). The few that didn't had some form of rom monitor to simulate a fronpannel via TTY such as Poly-88, Processor tech SOL and others. I have the history of being Altair owner SN00200 an early one with a full set of warts and germs. I was in the unenviable position by the end of January 1975 of having an assembled and debugged machine with 4k and NO software. Needless to say I was very heads up for software of any kind. >><http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/mds-800/frnt-pan.jpg>. The 1702 is mapped >>into and out of the memory space by the BOOT switch on the MDS front panel. >>Allison's description is dead on. Should be with the hours spent using MDS800 and having one they are familiar. >>Dave Mabry is the expert of the Intel MDS >>and he can provide more details about how they're booted and the BIOS table >>is loaded. FWIW Gary had a contract to write PL/M for Intel and wrote CPM >>as a file handling system for use in developing PL/M. He offered Intel CPM >>but they didn't want it since they were working on their own OS.(BIG >>Mistake!) Intel's OS was released as ISIS and was only used in the Intel >>MDS systems (although I've heard they did have a PC version for a PC based >>MDS). ISIS is very crude compared to CPM. >> >> MDS 800 <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/mds-800/mds-800.htm> >> >> You might also want to take a look at 'CP/M and a brief history lesson' >>here; <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/mds/mds.htm>. I used to have the exact >>quotes from Gary but unfortunately the link to them is now dead. Good synopsis. Allison

21 years

1
0
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NeXT cube to give away?

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Rob wrote: >FWIW, the reply-to is ROT13'd, an elderly way of hiding text on usenet, and >translates to "bevakupf at sbcglobal.net (rot13)" the same email address as >quoted in the body of the email. <slaps forehead> Thanks... busy day. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, temporary cell 240-375-2995

21 years

2
1
0 0

Bit of CP/M trivia needed

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> > >> >>Subject: Re: Bit of CP/M trivia needed >> From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey at amd.com> >> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:14:15 -0700 (PDT) >> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >> >-------snip----------> > >>> I don't think so. CPM was first written by Gary Kidall for the Intel >>>MDS-800 (go read the CPM docs) and they NEVER had DMA capability. They used >>>a 2k bit bootstrap loaded in a 1702 EPROM. Here is a picture of a MDS-800 >>>with THE actual 1702 Boot EPROM >> >>Hi >> Yes, what I meant to say was for the S-100. I was told that the first >>S-100 implementation used this type of board. I knew Gary used a >>MDS-800. >>Dwight > >No. Most (if not all) of the first S100 system had front pannels >(ALTAIR AND IMSAI Were the first!). The few that didn't had some form >of rom monitor to simulate a fronpannel via TTY such as Poly-88, >Processor tech SOL and others. Hi What does a front panel have to do with what I stated? I am familiar with the MDS800 having worked for Intel and written both assembly and PLM80 for it. I was also responsible for testing of the 1036 card ( the PLL used in the M2FM board set ). So, I do understand the disk I/O of the MDS800. I made no claim as to how a MDS800 works( please read previous mails ). As I corrected, I was not intending to make a claim about the first ever CP/M ( again please read previous mail in context ) but felt that from the context of the conversation that we were talking about S-100 machines. I tried to clarify this misconception that I was talking about the MDS800 in a previous mail ( again please read ), I was not talking about the MDS800. All I'm saying is that I was told that this particular DMA based interface was used for the first implementation on the S-100 of CP/M. This was told me by another fellow many years ago. I don't recall the fellows name but he seemed at the time to be honest enough since he had nothing to sell or gain by such a comment. He claimed to have some involvement in that process. If you don't like that you can just shoot me and be done with it but, please, don't put words in my mouth. Dwight > >I have the history of being Altair owner SN00200 an early one with a >full set of warts and germs. I was in the unenviable position by the end of >January 1975 of having an assembled and debugged machine with 4k and NO >software. Needless to say I was very heads up for software of any kind. > >>><http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/mds-800/frnt-pan.jpg>. The 1702 is mapped >>>into and out of the memory space by the BOOT switch on the MDS front panel. >>>Allison's description is dead on. > >Should be with the hours spent using MDS800 and having one they are familiar. > >>>Dave Mabry is the expert of the Intel MDS >>>and he can provide more details about how they're booted and the BIOS table >>>is loaded. FWIW Gary had a contract to write PL/M for Intel and wrote CPM >>>as a file handling system for use in developing PL/M. He offered Intel CPM >>>but they didn't want it since they were working on their own OS.(BIG >>>Mistake!) Intel's OS was released as ISIS and was only used in the Intel >>>MDS systems (although I've heard they did have a PC version for a PC based >>>MDS). ISIS is very crude compared to CPM. >>> >>> MDS 800 <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/mds-800/mds-800.htm> >>> >>> You might also want to take a look at 'CP/M and a brief history lesson' >>>here; <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/mds/mds.htm>. I used to have the exact >>>quotes from Gary but unfortunately the link to them is now dead. > >Good synopsis. > >Allison > >

21 years

2
1
0 0

searching for replacement for 1793 FDC

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Gooijen, Henk" <GOOI at oce.nl> > >> Gooijen, Henk wrote: >> >> >Hi all, >> >I am looking into the possibility to add a floppy disk interface >> >to the 6809 Core Board. 20 years ago, so this is OT :-) , I built >> >a floppy disk interface for my 6800 system using the 1793. >> >I have ordered some 1793 from BG Micro, but checking the data >> >sheet of the 1793, I noticed taht the FDC requires +12 on pin #40. >> >I know the MB8877 is pin-compatible with the 1793, but does *not* >> >need the +12V. >> >I failed to locate a seller for the 8877, but I do not know "all" >> >major part sellers in the US. JameCo, BG Micro and DigiKey do not >> >have this part ... somebody knows a good stock of the 8877 ? >> >I can use the 1793, +12V is "ugly", but the voltage is present as >> >the +12V is needed for the floppy drive itself! >> > >> > thanks, >> >- Henk, PA8PDP. >> > >> > >> Has it really be the 1793? Or might not be a 2797 design (2797 is >> also available from BG micro) from www.swtpc.com/mholley >> (New design for SS30 FDC) is more appropriate for "new developments", >> given that it doesn't need that really ugly external data separator >> logic which always prevented me from building FDC boards (a usable >> separator chip is more difficult to find than the FDC chip, and the >> alternatives with a TTL-monoflop grave is not even more attractive). >> >> Actually, what is your real problem? You already have 12V for the >> floppy drive, so what prevents you from feeding it into pin #40 of >> the 1793? +12V on an otherwise +5V board is not more ugly than a >> +25V source on an eprommer board, or +12/-5V for 2708/4116 memory >> boards. >> >> Holger > >Thanks for the reply Holger. >Your remark about the +12 for the FDC // +25 for an EPROM programmer >is correct. I know of the existence of the 2797, but have totally none >experience with it what-so-ever. The link that you gave is nice, but >I am not sure I can *copy* the design ... Further, I have several 1793 >here, so that is cheap for me. I would need to buy the 2797 and ship >it to The Netherlands (sources here are not as good as in the US). >The data separator I use with the 1793 is more stable, and built with >a VCO (LS629, LS393 and LS153). >I will look into the 2797 a bit more, but I guess I'll go with the 1793. >I saw in the diagram of the 2797 that it has also 2 trimpots for the >adjustment ... Not sure yet ... > > thanks, >- Henk, PA8PDP. > > Hi The 2791/93 are a more flexable choice than the 2795/97. >From my understanding of the spec sheet, the 2791/93 can do both 5.25 and 8 inch without changing external parts. The 2795/97 requires different clock frequencies to do this. You give up the side select but as was mentioned before, I suspect that one could double up the direction bit to also do side select or just have a port to do that. Dwight

21 years

1
0
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Bit of CP/M trivia needed

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> > >At 02:40 PM 8/27/05 -0700, Dwight wrote: >>>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> >>> >>>> >>>>Subject: Bit of CP/M trivia needed >>>> From: "Brian Knittel" <brian at quarterbyte.com> >>>> Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 00:58:01 -0700 >>>> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >>>> >>>>Hi all, >>>> >>>>Does anybody out there know for certain when the >>>>term BIOS was coined? I believe it was Gary Kildall, >>>>and from what I can find, it was around 1978 that >>>>he abstracted the I/O and localized it in what >>>>he called the BIOS. Anyone know differently? >>> >>>The term BIOS is older, early '77. It came into use with >>>V1.3 I think and for cetertain in V1.4. >>> >>>>Also -- was the BIOS stored on the CP/M >>>>floppy, or was it in ROM/EPROM? If not, how >>>>did CP/M machines boot? Was there a dedicated >>>>boot ROM that was used just for startup, and >>>>then the BIOS took over? I had one back in >>>>the day, but I sure can't remember this detail. >>> >>>The easy answer is yes. Tranditional CP/M systems the >>>CCP/BDOS and BIOS were on the first two reserved tracks >>>of the floppy (8" SSSD) and those were loaded by a boot >>>rom. >> >>Hi >> My understanding was that the first ones had no ROM >>and used a DMA controller that loaded bootstrapping >>code from the first sector on reset. I have such a >>controller on my machine. All RAM, no ROMs. >>Dwight >> > > I don't think so. CPM was first written by Gary Kidall for the Intel >MDS-800 (go read the CPM docs) and they NEVER had DMA capability. They used >a 2k bit bootstrap loaded in a 1702 EPROM. Here is a picture of a MDS-800 >with THE actual 1702 Boot EPROM Hi Yes, what I meant to say was for the S-100. I was told that the first S-100 implementation used this type of board. I knew Gary used a MDS-800. Dwight ><http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/mds-800/frnt-pan.jpg>. The 1702 is mapped >into and out of the memory space by the BOOT switch on the MDS front panel. >Allison's description is dead on. Dave Mabry is the expert of the Intel MDS >and he can provide more details about how they're booted and the BIOS table >is loaded. FWIW Gary had a contract to write PL/M for Intel and wrote CPM >as a file handling system for use in developing PL/M. He offered Intel CPM >but they didn't want it since they were working on their own OS.(BIG >Mistake!) Intel's OS was released as ISIS and was only used in the Intel >MDS systems (although I've heard they did have a PC version for a PC based >MDS). ISIS is very crude compared to CPM. > > MDS 800 <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/mds-800/mds-800.htm> > > You might also want to take a look at 'CP/M and a brief history lesson' >here; <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/mds/mds.htm>. I used to have the exact >quotes from Gary but unfortunately the link to them is now dead. > > Joe > > > Joe > >

21 years

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WD 1793 FDCs for sale

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: WD 1793 FDCs for sale > From: Jeff Walther <trag at io.com> > Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:17:18 -0500 > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > >>Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 00:18:14 +0100 >>From: Philip Pemberton <philpem at dsl.pipex.com> > >>Speaking of the 765s, I still need to build an MFM data separator... > >Is there any reason not to just track down some WD92C32 or WD92C16? >I think SMSC (FDC prefix) sold some similar chips too. The construction of a dtat sep is fairly easy and there was a design on the net someone else posted thats right from the Apnotes. It's a 7474/74174/and 32x8 fuse rom(needs to be faster than 50NS) >I did see a nice lot of WD92C16s on Ebay a year or two ago. I think >that will work as long as you need to read 1.44MB floppies. But I >haven't seen any more of them since then. The 9216 is a versatile data sep. It will do ALL data rates. All you have to do is provide the correct clock for the rate(s). Another though scarce is the 9229, thats the 9216+ write precomp hardware. It also works for all rates. The 9239 is an enhanced version. SMSc chips in oder by appearance: Data seps 9216, 9236 Data sep and clock generator (with srite precomp logic) 9229, 9238, 9239, 9249 Those with "C" in the middle are Cmos version of the Nmos/Hmos originals. Allison

21 years

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I'm tripping

by tomj＠wps.com

In santa fe. Was up at Los Alamos Sales. Same old gear is there still available for anyone willing to drive the kilomile (from generally anywhere). Got an immaculate Kaypro II in blue Kaypro zip/padded carry case for $50. Boot ROM politely asks for boot disk, alas I have none, but no smoke leaked out. Need to find diskettes when I get back! Got a TI Programmer calculator, near-new condition. $20. Portable gimcrack. I left behind tubes of new/unused ceramic 2708's and 2716's (both Intel) and WD 2511's. The latter is some sync comm chip, right?

21 years

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Bit of CP/M trivia needed

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

I can't say for sure if Gary was the first to use the term BIOS, but it was being used by Gary in CP/M long before 1978 -- I'd say in late 1975, probably, and definitely by 1976. A friend bought a copy of CP/M in 1975 (I know it was 1975, because I was in Atlanta at the time with the friend (who happens to be Dale Heatherington, a partner in the modem firm of DC Hayes, for whom the "Heatherington patents" were named), and I moved from Atlanta to Charlotte in late 1975). In 1976, Imsai was offering CP/M version 1.3 with the dual-Calcomp disk system. All of the documentation for all of these used the term BIOS, as did the source code for the BIOS' supplied with CP/M on disk (for the Intel development system). The BIOS resided on disk, as part of the system tracks, it was the last 7 sectors of the 2nd track (track 1).

21 years

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SRAM testers

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: I would like to wade through my memory boards chip-by chip and find out what's what. I spent the better part of the day swapping boards and chips trying to make 3-4 solid 8k boards out of 6. Does anyone have a small SRAM tester for 16 and 18-pin SRAM/DRAMs that I can borrow? I'll pay postage both ways. Please let me know. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

21 years

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Setting Y-E Data YD-380B FDD to 300RPM?

by philpem＠dsl.pipex.com

Hi, Does anyone happen to have a manual for the Y-E Data YD-380B 5.25" floppy drive that explains how to set it to either run at 300RPM or enable the speed control via pin 2? I'd like to set this thing up on a BBC Micro if at all possible. Also, if it can do double-stepping ("40 track read"), details on that would be very handy. Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn RiscPC600 SA220 64MB+6GB 100baseT philpem at philpem.me.uk | Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxe R2 512MB+100GB http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Panasonic CF-25 Mk.2 Toughbook ... Misspelled? Impossible. Error correcting modem!

21 years

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Bit of CP/M trivia needed

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> > >> >>Subject: Bit of CP/M trivia needed >> From: "Brian Knittel" <brian at quarterbyte.com> >> Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 00:58:01 -0700 >> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >> >>Hi all, >> >>Does anybody out there know for certain when the >>term BIOS was coined? I believe it was Gary Kildall, >>and from what I can find, it was around 1978 that >>he abstracted the I/O and localized it in what >>he called the BIOS. Anyone know differently? > >The term BIOS is older, early '77. It came into use with >V1.3 I think and for cetertain in V1.4. > >>Also -- was the BIOS stored on the CP/M >>floppy, or was it in ROM/EPROM? If not, how >>did CP/M machines boot? Was there a dedicated >>boot ROM that was used just for startup, and >>then the BIOS took over? I had one back in >>the day, but I sure can't remember this detail. > >The easy answer is yes. Tranditional CP/M systems the >CCP/BDOS and BIOS were on the first two reserved tracks >of the floppy (8" SSSD) and those were loaded by a boot >rom. Hi My understanding was that the first ones had no ROM and used a DMA controller that loaded bootstrapping code from the first sector on reset. I have such a controller on my machine. All RAM, no ROMs. Dwight > >Other implmentations from V2 on it was easily to store >the BIOS in ROM and use that to boot the system. > >>This is for a writing project, so I'd like >>to get it right, >> >>Thanks! >>Brian > >Thre is much myth, and misinformation of old cpm. Much of >it was from people that had never used or never been there >(in time) and their sense of reference is the PC rather >than what came before. > >Allison > >

21 years

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