> From: Mark Matlock
> I also tried an 11/40 but the SET CPU NOEIS in Simh gave me an error
In Ersatz-11, an -11/40 without EIS works properly (i.e. it doesn't :-):
that's how I recognized his booting error! ;-)
> From: John Forecast
> Depending on the state of your EIS board you may want to stay with the
> original un-mapped system - I suspect that the baseline mapped system
> will always try to use the "sob" instruction.
No matter; SOB is part of the baseline instruction set in the -11/40. The EIS
board adds only MUL, DIV, ASH and ASHC.
I used Lyle's updated version to show Spacewar on my PDP-8/a during this
weekends retro event "RetroGathering" in Sweden. It works great!
I did two modifications to the code:
1. Use digital IO instead of the switch register so I could use hand
controls to let the audience play the game.
2. Fixed a bug so that timer interrupts is turned on if the DK8-EP
programmable real time clock is used.
>I just updated D.E. Wrege's Spacewar as follows:
>1. Correctly supports slow monitors attached to a VC8/E interface by
>correcting mistakes made in the VC8/E driver code. The code now follows
>DEC's recommended method of waiting on the VC8/E.
>2. Starts up with spaceships (as opposed to UFO's) per the original
>Spacewar! by Steve Russell.
>3. Now supports the DK8-EC Crystal Clock
>Items 1 & 2 were released by me previously - but support for the
>DK8-EC is brand new.
>The new source and listing can be picked up via anonymous FTP to
>bickleywest.com and the pdp8_spcwar directory.
>> Bill, Paul,
>> I have been tinkering with old versions of RSX11M (back to V2) on
>> non-mapped CPUs, primarily PDP-11/05 as I hope to get mine running soon. On
>> with the CPU set as a PDP-11/05 which does not have EIS (I also tried an
>> 11/40 but the SET CPU NOEIS in Simh gave me an error so I couldn't be sure
>> if it was disabled) I was able to boot the baseline distribution for RSX11M
>> V4.0 on a RL02 distribution. See details below on the config I tested.
>> RSX11M is a pretty capable multitasking, multiuser system and would be good
>> fit for the PDP-11/40.
> RL02 or RL01? I have only RL02 drives (2). Are you saying you can
My first PDP-11 system was a PDP-11/24 (256KB) with 2 RL02s. It ran
RSX11M V4.0 and collected RS232 data from lab instruments and
provided a programming environment and handled 3 or 4 users ok. Later
we added a KT24 and went to 512KB. With 2 RL02s one was a system disk
and one was a user/data disk. The utility BRU allowed you to make a copy
of the system disk, but to backup the data disk, one has to boot BRUSYS.SYS
which is a memory resident only RSX11S system that RSX11M includes so
you can remove the system disk and make a disk to disk copy of the non-bootable
user disk. Actually, BRUSYS.SYS is small and you can have the user disk boot block
point to it for convenience.
> 1) Use simH to set up the environment
RSX11M especially in small memory systems should be customized to your hardware.
If you have extra DL or DZ terminal ports or other hardware you will need to do this.
You can use the RL02 disk emulation, but have 4 of them for convenience so you don't
to swap disk images during the process. Once you have SYSGENed an RSX11M system
you are happy with then the RL02 disk image file needs to be transferred to an RL02
> 2) Port to RL02 image disk
This is the tricky part. RSX11M+ can run a TCP/IP stack and the disk image could
be FTPed to it from the Linux or Windows system running Simh. M+ could mount the
disk image file and BRU the image to a physical disk (if the M+ system had an RL02
Drive). I don't have RL02s and don't know anyone who does. Also, you might find
a Baseline RSX11M disk someone has which can be copied and booted.
> 3) Take image put on actual RL02?
Since we are unlikely to find a SYSTEM to do that then, the other way
would be with PDPGUI from Jorge Hoppe. His PDPGUI program can load via ODT
a small driver to write to an RL02 and then transfer a disk image over the console
port. It would take quite a while but it can be done.
This assumes you have ODT and I don't know if an 11/40 does. The !1/05
doesn't either but Jorge found that a M9312 bootstrap card with ODT ROMs
will enable ODT on an 11/05 so it should work on an 11/40?
> I agree that it would run on the PDP 11/40 without EIS, but so far I have
> not been able to get it onto an image that will write to actual RL02
> disks. I was playing around with this yesterday.
> I was also working on getting Fortran onto a RT11 disk and in general
> building a dual drive system that has a programming environment with enough
> space to save program and a dataset.
RT11 would work very well on two RL02s as well. In fact, one can get by with two
RX02s. It is a much simpler operating system.
> I have a lot of RSX11/M manuals and docs here, compared with RT11 I'd love
> to use RSX. Are tools made for RSX compatible with RT-11, I am reading up
> to see how these compare, what levels they're on...is RT11 like DOS and RSX
> like "Windows" that sits on top of it, etc. I know RSX is not a GUI, just
> making an analogy. I am researching all of this, up to this point I had
> only dabbled in RT11.
RT-11 and RSX11M are quite different internally. RT-11 is a single user monitor
that was extended to multiuser with some later version and via the TSX operating system.
TSX is more like your Windows analogy.
The RSX11M executive was written from the ground up with conditional assembly code that can be
customized for your hardware so any code for hardware not needed can be left out.
When you do a SYSGEN you actually compile the assembly source for much of the
operating system and then link (TasK Build, TKB) it. Utilities come in object libraries and can be modified
a bit when linking.
Also, many of the features of the OS can be left out if you don't need them. It was designed
to have executive calls that were compatible with RSX11M and IAS which ran only on large
systems. Much of the same languages can be run on RSX and RT11 (Fortran, Basic, Macro, APL)
and RSX can read RT-11 tapes and disks with the utility FLX.
I have a PDP-8/e where I've tested all the boards in a friend's PDP-8/e and they are all generally ok with the exception of the M8310 which did not work in his machine.
I started to do some very rudimentary analysis of the what isn't working. I did the following.
7100 CLA clear AC
7040 CMA (complement the AC)
The complementing worked fine. I set the switch to AC and single stepped through the little program and watched the all 12 lights alternate on and then off. So far so good.
I then did this:
7001 IAC (increment AC)
And nothing happened, no incrementing of AC took place. So I may be onto something here. I then looked at the link bit which I believe is viewed by setting the switch to STATUS and looking at bit 0 "LINK"
I did the following program:
7100 CLA (Clear Link)
7020 CML (complement Link)
And I found that the link was not alternating. The lamp was lit at all time unlike the same test with the CMA. I then read in the Maintenance Manual Volume 1 on page 4-7, Item 11 which gives the following symptom "CPMA, MB, PC, or AC do not increment" And the likely cause of "CAR IN L is always high to the adder. It should be generated for ..." and presents a series of events that should cause the CAR IN L to assert.
Now two questions.
1) It appears that CPMA, MB and PC all do increment but the AC does not. Does this help me to narrow down which of the events a. through f. listed might be my problem?
2) Is the link bits inability to complement help narrow down the issue?
3) Might anyone know what the fault is?
4) Are there any other steps you might suggest I take to further narrow down the fault?
>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:19 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am curious to see what OS's run on an 11/40 without the EIS card other
>> than RT-11. I am researching this. I have always wanted to learn more
>> about batch-11.
> You mean DOS/BATCH? Yes, that would run on that machine, it's an 11/20 OS. So would the pre-Batch version of DOS-11 (V4).
> Another OS that would run on your machine (as well as an 11/20) would be RSTS-11 (V4, or I suppose V3 if you can find that), the predecessor of RSTS/E that didn't use the MMU.
> It may be that some flavors of RSX-11/M or /S can be built with no EIS, since it's supposed to be possible to build a non-MMU version at least of /S. But I don't know the specifics (no RSX experience).
I have been tinkering with old versions of RSX11M (back to V2) on non-mapped CPUs, primarily PDP-11/05 as I hope to get mine running soon. On Simh
with the CPU set as a PDP-11/05 which does not have EIS (I also tried an 11/40 but the SET CPU NOEIS in Simh gave me an error so I couldn't be sure if it was disabled) I was able to boot the baseline distribution for RSX11M V4.0 on a RL02 distribution. See details below on the config I tested. RSX11M is a pretty capable multitasking, multiuser system and would be good fit for the PDP-11/40.
sim> sho cpu
CPU 11/05, idle enabled, autoconfiguration enabled
sim> sh rl
RL RL11, address=17774400-17774411, vector=160, 4 units
RL0 2621KW, attached to rsxm32.rl01, on line
write enabled, RL01
RL1 2621KW, attached to excprv.rl01, on line
write enabled, RL01
RL2 2621KW, attached to mcrsrc.rl01, on line
write enabled, RL01
RL3 2621KW, attached to rlutil.rl01, on line
write enabled, RL01
sim> b rl
RSX-11M V4.0 BL32 28.K (BASELINE)
>* PLEASE ENTER TIME AND DATE (HR:MN DD-MMM-YY) [S]: 17:52 04-FEB-80
>TIM 17:52 04-FEB-80
>* ENTER LINE WIDTH OF THIS TERMINAL [D D:132.]: 80.
DL0: Mounted Loaded Type=RL01
DL1: Loaded Type=RL01
BLDLAINIT.CMD;1 14. 22-JAN-82 10:19
SGNBLDDRV.CMD;1 19. 22-JAN-82 10:19
SGNKLAB.CMD;1 70. 22-JAN-82 10:19
SGNSTAND.CMD;1 4. 22-JAN-82 10:19
SYSGEN.CMD;1 85. 22-JAN-82 10:19
SYSGEN2.CMD;1 79. 22-JAN-82 10:19
SYSGEN3.CMD;1 52. 22-JAN-82 10:19
Total of 323./323. blocks in 7. files
??????????????? I?m trying to test a Cromemco 16FDC controller?long story but it?s part of a QDOS project. I?m looking for recommendations on a 5.25? disk image I could use for testing. The system is simple ? 16FDC, CompuPro RAM17 (with $C0 block disabled), and a Z80 card. The 16FDC RDOS ROM works, so I can issue commands but I need to test the disk interface part.
??????????????? Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks!
where do you get a thing like that to convert IBM keyboard for the
we have a Amiga with toaster we need a keyboard for, Prefer the real
Amiga one but....
In a message dated 2/4/2017 7:21:14 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
ian.finder at gmail.com writes:
I ordered a PS/2 -> amiga adapter for the fine folks at the MADE in
But I fear it may not arrive in time for their 2/27 show.
Is there anyone local who could loan these good folks an Amiga 2K or 3K
I'm remote and cannot do so.
ian.finder at gmail.com
> From: Jon Elson
> Any time you see really narrow glitches, especially when they are one
> LA sample wide, you have no idea what they actually look like. The LA
> detects that the pulse was there at the instant it sampled it, but you
> don't know whether it was 5 ns wide, or 70 ns wide ... You also don't
> know whether they were full-amplitude pulses or runts that just barely
> crossed the logic threshold of the analyzer.
Which is why I always prefer to work with an LA _and_ a 'scope: the 'scope
lets me see what the signals look like, how much noise/etc there is, etc,
etc, while the LA can do other things - better triggering, capture longer
time periods, etc.
(Now they have those fancy new digitial 'scope with capture capability, and
you can get the best of both worlds with one box, but I guess they are still
kind of pricy.)
But you can probably pick up an old 'scope for not much money on eBait. I
can't imagine working on anything without one.