test-drb June 2007

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

224 participants
486 discussions

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi Having read all the correspondence on S-100 systems there are three possibilities. 1. Restoration 2. Reproduction or Replica 3. Reinvention Restoration In a restoration you are trying to get the system back to what it was when first made. So when possible you would use components made at the same time the system was. Can be done and is done. Does need a knowledge of older electronics and good parts sources. Reproduction or Replica Here you are attempting to make a system as close to the original design as possible but using recently manufactured versions of the original components. Where do you draw the line? Well FWIW my take on this is if it fits in the original holes and performs the same function or is the same value then the fact that it may not look exactly the same as the original is OK. Makes a nice kit project. My preference would be a Northstar Horizon. (wood effect box and all) As far as I know nobody owns the rights and the company was not sold it just folded up. Reinvention Say a copy of old S-100 system on the outside only That means the box and front panel are new but as the original. Inside,there are new electronics simulating the old system. Good route for the run the old software fans. Rod Smallwood

17 years

DEC PC's and parts

by useddec＠gmail.com

I have 6 or more DEC PC's and parts which are really getting in my way. Any interest before I part them out? Feel free to contact me off list. Thanks, Paul Anderson >

17 years

New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

>On top of that, S100 motherboards are still fairly easy to find. If anyone's >interested, I'll have some ready for sale in a couple weeks. And how much will they cost ? Populated? Whats included? How many slots? -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David Griffith Sent: 03 June 2007 21:36 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available On Sun, 3 Jun 2007, Grant Stockly wrote: > A motherboard would be very expensive. About $250 cost for 12 slots > at a production quantity of 50. On top of that, S100 motherboards are still fairly easy to find. If anyone's interested, I'll have some ready for sale in a couple weeks. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

17 years

3.5" Altair CP/M

by grant＠stockly.com

At 04:45 PM 5/15/2007, you wrote: >On 5/15/07, Grant Stockly <grant at stockly.com> wrote: >>I have a tarbell floppy controller card that has been rewired to access >>3.5" disks using a standard PC 3.5" disk drive. I have 3 disks that the >>Altair can boot off of and read, but my windows computer can't do anything >>with them. I've tried rawread.exe and diskinfo.exe and they both choke on >>the disk. I assumed that if a disk could be written with the standard 3.5" >>disk drive on the tarbell card then it should also be read on the same >>drive connected to a modern IBM compatible. > >Are you using a 1771 based SD Tarbell card, or a 1791/1793 based DD >Tarbell card? That might make a difference. Its an MDL-1011D with an FD1771-B01. What's the deal with this chip? Is it formatting the the disk as 360k? I can scan the modification sheet and card if anyone is interested. I'd really love to make a disk image of the disk to share with people. I might have to write a bootstrap program that reads from the serial port and writes to a disk. Grant

17 years

ebay "unpaid item strike" -- what's the consequence?

by legalize＠xmission.com

I purchased a Qume QVT-101 terminal on ebay. I asked the seller how it would be packed for shipment. They didn't respond. I asked again. They didn't respond. I asked a third time, they responded "It will be shipped the usual way". I responded that since I've never purchased anything from them before that this doesn't answer my questions about how the item will be shipped. I don't want to receive damaged terminals from ebay anymore. I explained this to the seller. Instead of answering my simple question and reassuring me that it will be properly shippe, they just immediately open an ebay dispute on me and then have turned it into an "unpaid item strike". I've appealed the strike with ebay, but I doubt I'll get any love from them. So my question is -- what does this mean for me? Is it just listed as harsh negative feedback? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

17 years

Repairing the damage.

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

I am beginning to wonder if everybody is talking and nobody is listening. ************************************************************************ *************** * The target machine is not running anything except low level firmware !!! * * No DECNet No Tcpip No VMS - Nothing !!!! (It can't-disk drives inoperable) * ************************************************************************ *************** However after wading around in sea of online manuals I think am beginning to find out the things they don't tell you. Given that there has to be some form of communication between the Boot server and the target. Then what's left is this MOP thing. As you can specify that the boot device is the ethernet adaptor (EZA0: in this case) when you try to boot from the target system it must be sending out some kind of request packet with an ID attached. It can't be a node name or an IP address. There's no way tell it what they are!! What it does know, is its MAC address which is hard encoded into the interface. The server has to respond to the request (Remember No Decnet and No Tcpip available) somehow or other. So what is it that runs on the server does not use Decnet or Tcpip and can load images into the target machine? We can rule out @SYS$MANAGER:CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN which expects Decnet and screw's up TCPWARE. I'm out of ideas at this point. Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: 03 June 2007 00:44 To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: Repairing the damage. Importance: High On Jun 2, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > The abortive attempt to cluster the two Vaxes and copy data has left > me much further back than when I started. > The network and terminal server connections are gone because I can't > start TCPWARE up. > It complains about a license and and something called NETCU (What the > hell is that?) and aborts the loading of TCPWARE. > > Lesson learned,= the boot from a cluster server idea is flawed and can > damage an existing setup. > Its probably one of those things everybody has heard about but never > actually done. You can't be serious...? Cluster-booting of VAXen is something that has been happening in thousands of multiple-VAX installations for two decades. I did it myself when I was still a teenager. It is nothing unusual. I am sorry to hear that the attempt hosed your machine. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

17 years

Anyone for a RELLY expensive 11/780 (UK)??!!

by classiccmp＠memory-alpha.org.uk

Hi, > As far as I can tell from the crappy, low resolution pictures >he's got, it probably isn't missing any boards. I've never seen the inside of an 11/780, and as you say, the pictures are terrible.... TTFN - Pete.

17 years

Cluster Booting - What they dont tell you.

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi As with many things the answer is very simple. The key is a program called LANCP invoked as $MCR LANCP on the boot server. It allows you to associate a name say VAX300 with a MAC address and add it to a database. It also allows you to set the name of the file to download and the root of the system. So far so good.... Now for the other half of the puzzle. How does the boot server listen for requests? Well there's an executable program call LANACP that is invoked by running LAN$STARTUP.COM Once running it services boot requests from across the network. It uses the data from the data base maintained by LANCP. It gives progress messages when a Node tries to boot. Once you have done that then, from the target system type >>>Boot EZA0: (ie the ethernet device on the target system) Lo and behold it downloads the file. It may well be the case that clusters use this system to boot satellite systems but you do not have to be a cluster to use it. We are not trying to make a cluster here. We are trying to boot a system that has empty disk drives. When I worked at DEC we were always warned that whilst .com files were very powerful things never to use them unless we understood what every line did. Further more each command line should be tested by entering it manually. I can now download a file to a target system just by typing Boot EZA0 at the >>> prompt. No Decnet, No Tcpip, No Clusters. The firmware on a VAX is independent of operating systems be they System or Network. Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini Sent: 03 June 2007 19:52 To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'; cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Cluster Booting - What they dont tell you. Rod Smallwood wrote: > We can rule out @SYS$MANAGER:CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN which expects Decnet > and screw's up TCPWARE. > > I'm out of ideas at this point. > Lessons > > 1. Never run a .COM file before looking to see what it does. cluster_config*_LAN*.com? You aren't meant to run that are you? At least, I've never done it that way. I've just attached a sample of invoking @SYS$MANAGER:CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM on my VAX. If you never at least entered the MAC address of your satellite VAX then you definitely ran the wrong procedure! I thought you had V6.2 - the LANACP stuff popped in V7 sometime, for those who didn't want to install DECnet-Plus. I would expect the procedure (if you run the right one) to do the right thing (but I don't have a VAX with that config around to check right now). One other thing: > DEFINE NODE VAX300/ADDRESS=08-00-2B-18-BB-D0/FILE=APB_061.EXE Before you go to far down this path, this is used to boot an Alpha from an InfoServer (or at least that's what I think it is, my infoserver isn't in use right now). So I don't think this is what you want. CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM should as a few questions, set a bunch of stuff up and then wait for you to boot your VAX 4000-300. There's no way that you are expected to delve this deep into this stuff if you run the right procedure. Antonio KRAKAR::SYSTEM> @cluster_config Cluster Configuration Procedure Executing on a VAX System This system is running DECnet-Plus. DECnet will be used for MOP downline loading. To ensure that this procedure is executing with the required privileges, invoke it from the system manager's account. Enter a "?" for help at any prompt. If you are familiar with the execution of this procedure, you may want to mute extra notes and explanations by invoking it with "@CLUSTER_CONFIG BRIEF". KRAKAR is a VAX system and currently a member of a cluster so the following functions can be performed: MAIN MENU 1. ADD a VAX node to the cluster. 2. REMOVE a node from the cluster. 3. CHANGE a cluster member's characteristics. 4. CREATE a duplicate system disk for KRAKAR. 5. MAKE a directory structure for a new root on a system disk. 6. DELETE a root from a system disk. 7. EXIT from this procedure. Enter choice [1]: This ADD function will add a new VAX node to the cluster. WARNING: If the node being added is a voting member, EXPECTED_VOTES for every cluster member must be adjusted. For complete instructions check the section on configuring a cluster in the "OpenVMS Cluster Systems" manual. CAUTION: If this cluster is running with multiple system disks and common system files will be used, please, do not proceed unless appropriate logical names are defined for cluster common files in SYLOGICALS.COM. For instructions, refer to the "OpenVMS Cluster Systems" manual. Do you want to continue [N]? y For additional networking information, please refer to the DECnet-Plus Network Management manual. What is the node's DECnet fullname? LOCAL:.TEST What is the SCS node name for this node [TEST]? Do you want to define a DECnet synonym [Y]? What is the synonym name for this node [TEST]? What is the MOP service client name for this node [TEST]? What is the node's DECnet Phase IV address? 1.98 Will TEST be a satellite [Y]? WARNING: When the new node is a satellite, the network databases on KRAKAR are updated by this procedure. You must see to it that the network databases on all other cluster members are updated. On every boot node that may provide MOP service to the new satellite, also make certain SYS$MANAGER:NET$LOGICALS.COM contains the command: $ DEFINE NET$STARTUP_MOP TRUE For help, refer to the "OpenVMS Cluster Systems" manual. Does TEST need to be registered in the namespace [N]? Verifying circuits in network database... What is the Cluster Alias fullname? Note: KRAKAR has 1 LAN circuit(s) in the ON state, with service enabled. This procedure will establish circuit CSMACD-0 for KRAKAR's booting of TEST. What is TEST's LAN adapter hardware address? 08-00-2b-00-00-01 This procedure will now ask you for the device name of TEST's system root. The default device name (DISK$OPENVMS071:) is the logical volume name of SYS$SYSDEVICE:. What is the device name for TEST's system root [default DISK$OPENVMS071:]? What is the name of TEST's system root [SYS10]? Allow conversational bootstraps on TEST [N]? The following workstation windowing options are available: 1. No workstation software 2. DECwindows Workstation Software 3. VWS Workstation Software (not installed) Enter choice [1]: Creating directory tree SYS10 ... %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYSEXE> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYSLIB> created %SET-I-ENTERED, $1$DKA0:<000000>VMS$COMMON.DIR;1 entered as $1$DKA0:<SYS10>SYSCO MMON.DIR; %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYSTEST> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYSMAINT> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYSMGR> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYSHLP> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYSHLP.EXAMPLES> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYSUPD> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYSMSG> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYSERR> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYSCBI> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYS$STARTUP> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.SYS$LDR> created %CREATE-I-CREATED, $1$DKA0:<SYS10.MOM$SYSTEM> created System root SYS10 created Will TEST be a disk server [N]? Updating network database... On all other boot nodes which may provide MOP DLL service to TEST, execute the following command: $ @SYS$MANAGER:NET$CONFIGURE "ALS_CONFIGURE" "ADD_CLIENT" - _$ "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]clu20200205.tmp3" "TEST" "08-00-2B-00-00-01" "1. 98" - _$ "DISK$OPENVMS071:<SYS10.>" Configuration last run by SYSTEM on 28-JAN-1999 10:11:34.08 Node 0 MOP Client TEST at 2007-06-01-19:36:34.760+01:00Iinf Node 0 MOP Client TEST at 2007-06-01-19:36:34.860+01:00Iinf Characteristics Addresses = { 08-00-2B-00-00-01 , AA-00-04-00-62-04 (1.98) } Node 0 MOP Client TEST at 2007-06-01-19:36:34.870+01:00Iinf Characteristics Tertiary Loader = { sys$system:tertiary_vmb.exe } Node 0 MOP Client TEST at 2007-06-01-19:36:34.880+01:00Iinf Characteristics System Image = { "@net$niscs_laa(DISK$OPENVMS071:<SYS10.>)" } Node 0 MOP Client TEST at 2007-06-01-19:36:34.890+01:00Iinf Characteristics Verification = '0000000000000000'H Node 0 MOP Client TEST at 2007-06-01-19:36:34.890+01:00Iinf Characteristics Phase IV Host Name = KRAKAR Node 0 MOP Client TEST at 2007-06-01-19:36:34.900+01:00Iinf Characteristics Phase IV Host Address = 1.150 Node 0 MOP Client TEST at 2007-06-01-19:36:34.910+01:00Iinf Characteristics Phase IV Client Name = TEST Node 0 MOP Client TEST at 2007-06-01-19:36:34.910+01:00Iinf Characteristics Phase IV Client Address = 1.98 %NET$CONFIGURE-I-MODCHECKSUM, checksumming NCL management scripts modified by NE T$CONFIGURE DELETE SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE]NET$CHECKSUM_NCL_LOCAL_SAVED.DAT;12 ? [N]: y DELETE SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]NET$CHECKSUM_NCL_COMMON_SAVED.DAT;12 ? [N]: a %PURGE-I-NOFILPURG, no files purged sys$manager:net$dns_clerk_startup.ncl changed to use the new default namespace. Your default namespace nickname is LOCAL. Your default namespace NSCTS is 08-00-2B-0D-C0-9D-5F-FA-A9-88-43-46-95-00. Clearing old local namespace entries prior to loading new entries Loading new local namespace node name entries Saving the new local namespace contents Maximum number of node names that can be loaded: 190 Number of node names that are currently loaded: 4 %NET$CONFIGURE-I-CONFIGCOMPLETED, DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS configuration complete d Size of pagefile for TEST [RETURN for AUTOGEN sizing]? A temporary pagefile will be created until resizing by AUTOGEN. The default size below is arbitrary and may or may not be appropriate. Size of temporary pagefile [10000]? Size of swap file for TEST [RETURN for AUTOGEN sizing]? A temporary swap file will be created until resizing by AUTOGEN. The default size below is arbitrary and may or may not be appropriate. Size of temporary swap file [8000]? Will a local disk on TEST be used for paging and swapping (Y/N)? ERROR: Invalid response. Please enter (Y,N or ?). Will a local disk on TEST be used for paging and swapping (Y/N)? ERROR: Invalid response. Please enter (Y,N or ?). Will a local disk on TEST be used for paging and swapping (Y/N)? ERROR: Invalid response. Please enter (Y,N or ?). Will a local disk on TEST be used for paging and swapping (Y/N)? y Does TEST have any RFxx disks [N]? y Enter a value for TEST's ALLOCLASS parameter [1]: This procedure will now wait until TEST is a member of the cluster. Once TEST joins the cluster, this procedure will ask you which local disk it can use for paging and swapping. Please boot TEST now. Make sure the default boot device is set to be the LAN device appropriate for the satellite. See the hardware user manual or the console help command for instructions to do this. Waiting for TEST to boot... Waiting for TEST to boot...

17 years

Nice little terminal for a Star System.

by austin＠ozpass.co.uk

Just found this on ebay.co.uk: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Xerox-terminal-for-the-Star-Office-System-1980 s_W0QQitemZ280119650017QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4193QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem Could this be used as a terminal for anything other than a Xerox Star Office System? I?m on the lookout for a quirky terminal for my unix boxen.... -Austin.

17 years

Sun, HP "scrap" (???)

by dasbooterror＠gmail.com

>Hi Joshua >It seems like you are the person to ask. I did some calculations showing >that one would need a large area of PC boards covered with gold to >get to an ounce ( w/ typical plating ). >About how much gold would you expect to recover in 100 lbs of >average PC boards. My guess would put it in the 1/8 of an ounce >or less. Surely not enough to pay $500 for a pile of boards. >Dwight Well certainly he is trying to rip you off, why else? TBH, you usually dont handle such small amounts of salvage... to offset costs we were dealing with 1000lbs or more of scrap. Im not sure on the actual gold recovered, I didn't handle the precipitation of the gold from solution, i handled the grunt work of smashing up chips and stripping boards for the acid bath. So if your actually looking to make profit in this field you need to deal in scrap by the truckload Josh

17 years

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test-drb June 2007