test-drb June 2007

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

224 participants
486 discussions

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

>From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com> > > > > N = 1; > > > A[N++] = N++; > > > > I'd expect that to evaluate to a[1]=2 and n winds up being 3. But I'm >weird. > >This simple code snippet invokes "undefined behaviour" because: > > 'N' is modified twice within a single sequence block. > 'N' is referenced within a sequence block separately from a modification > occuring within the same sequence block. > >One might expect: > > N = 1 > Save address of A[1] > ++N > (address of A[1]) = 2 > ++N > >Which gives you the result you expected, however a compiler is free to >perform the side effects occuring within a sequence block at any time it >wishes, as long as it observes the charactistics of the operator causing >the side effect. (ie: one instance of N++ cannot increment N before >retrieving it's value, although the other instance of N++ could have >incremented it). > Hi Dave I'd expect it to evaluate the left side of the equation first before determining the address. A[2]=1. Any other order would not make sense. Algebraic equations do not read left to right. This causes a sense of ambiguity but shouldn't. Where it wouldn't be clear as to the result would be for the case: A = (5*N++) + (6*N++) But that only goes to show how poor this type of notation is for defining sequence of execution. This is why I still think RPN notation is much better for computer programming. This need not be a stack language like Forth. It is concise. Events happen left to right. No special rules. It isn't familar to what you learned in grade school but doesn't take long to grasp. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migrati…

17 years, 1 month

Repairing the damage.

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Aren't VAXen similar enough to where you could drop the -300's disk in the -200, install VMS (or dup from the -200's system disk), reinstall the disk in the -300, key in the -300's licenses and AUTOGEN? I don't know as much about VMS as I'd like to, but I've had the disk from a 3100/76 up on a 4000/200 to test functionality, and is seemed to work fine.

17 years, 1 month

New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available

by ragooman＠comcast.net

I've been working on a pcb design for a S-100 prototype board. I noticed a few people on the forums asking about this. I decided to make this since this is a big hobby of mine too(member-MARCH club). I based this design on a old prototype board I kept back from the S-100 days. It's made by Electronic Control Technology. Here's a link to the picture http://pghvintage.home.comcast.net/p...otypeboard.jpg <http://pghvintage.home.comcast.net/pics/S-100/s-100_prototypeboard.jpg> There were several different styles made before--each with their own advantages. This prototype board(in pic) has the rows in a vertical pattern to allow 300mil and 600mil DIP packages. It also accommodates 2 voltage regulators. Then there were some which only had a grid of solder pads to allow any arrangement of 300mil and 600mil DIP packages. I like to ask everyone what their preference might be in the arrangement of the solder pads, eg: vertical rows, horizontal rows, grid, etc. If I get enough feedback, I can include 2 different styles. It's not much work to alter the design. I have a panel setup to include 2 pcb designs at the moment, and it can be any 2 kinds of S-100 designs. In the future, I like to setup a bigger panel to include several more S-100 designs. Since this is mainly a hobby for me, I thought I might help out and offer this service. I'm designing this from my home workshop and intend to make this an affordable hobby. In case anyone is interested, with enough orders(minimum 30) then I can offer these for only $15 each. please send any feedback. =Dan Roganti -- [ My Corner of Cyberspace http://ragooman.home.comcast.net/ ]

17 years, 1 month

=== compaq SLT-286 power supply ===

by f5inl＠wanadoo.fr

Hi, I recently acquired an old Compaq SLT-286, but unfortunately, the power supply was not given to me. So I had to find a way of making it work by myself... I tried to connect a + 12 Vdc to the power connectors that normally are assigned to the battery. I put the ground on the most right pin, and a +12V on the most left one. The two middle pins were left unconnected, and of course, I removed the battery to avoid shortcuts. ( Ooops...when I say left/right, it's when the computer's screen is facing me, keyboard is removed, and the battery connector is located on the top/left corner :-) Like this : +------------------+ | **** | | ABCD | | | | | | | | | | | +------------------+ A : +12V D : GND BC : left unconnected With this, the computers boots normally on the floppy drive, but refuses to boot on the Hard drive. I obtain a 162 error message, inviting me to run SETUP. Then, I tried to run the compaq "setup.exe" diagnostic program, and I managed to see that my hard drive is perfectly recognized ! So, could anyone tell me il if I missed something ? Is my +12 Vdc connexion enough for powering the whole computer ? Actually I find very surprising that the battery's power connector has four pins, and I managed to do it work with only two :-( Thanks for your help, guys ! Sincerely, Fred.

17 years, 1 month

Repairing the damage.

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Brand new DLTape straight out of the box!! -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of e.stiebler Sent: 02 June 2007 23:09 To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Repairing the damage. Rod Smallwood wrote: > Back up did somebody say Back up.? > The whole reason I attempted doing it this way is because despite the > fact that both systems have TK 70 tape drives when attempting to do a > backup on the -200 it keeps telling me the tape is write protected > which it isn't. Make sure it isn't a TK50 you put in the TK70, or formatted as TK50. Probably switch the drives between the systems ?

17 years, 1 month

SGI IRIX licenses?

by darin.lory＠gmail.com

Richard, As most of group have mentioned that you need a support contract or purchase the MIPSpro compilers (C, C++, F77, F90, Auto- parallelization, GNAT Pro ADA 95) specifically for your host which you intend to run on. The FlexLM license file is in /var/flexlm/ license.dat. You might want to check your IRIX workstation or server you are doing your IRIX install on, and see if you already have any licenses in this file. You might be surprised if your SGI might have previously been licensed. You can print out or copy this file for safe keeping. Upgrading within IRIX 6.5.x will not modify this file. You will need to contact your local sales office (http://www.sgi.com/ sales/ ) or call SGI at (800) 800-7441 or (650) 960-1980 if you need a license. You will probably need a quote for a 2CPU license (even if you are running on a 1 CPU workstation). Depending on the version of IRIX, it did place some freebie licenses in there. They also used to produce a "HotMix" CD with all the sample or open license software. I believe I still have a lot of these HotMix CDs from IRIX 5.3, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4. I would suggest that you setup a free Supportfolio account and see what you have access to. https://support.sgi.com/login SGI will give you a 30 or 90 EVALUATION license for any software, so you can try out the MIPSpro compilers and see if you want to go for the cost of the software http://www.sgi.com/support/licensing/ . The MIPSpro compilers really take advantage of the SGI architecture and IRIX, more so than GNU software. But depending on what you need, GNU compilers might be fine for what you are doing. Some of the Development tools (http://www.sgi.com/developers/ technology/irix/tools.html more info) you can download and may get a PERMANENT license for ANY host (HOSTID=ANY in license.dat). You can download most of the available software (except compilers) at http://www.sgi.com/products/evaluation/ It will note what type of license (like FREE or no license needed). Most of the stuff that might interest you are things like Cosmo Player, Open Office, Message Passing Toolkit 1.9 and Parallel Virtual Machine-PVM (I have PDF version of non-copyright books on PVM and MPI if you need them), Java (1.4.1_06 which is NOT DST compliant without a patch that they created from a bug report I placed, but should be available from Supportfolio). If you don't want to purchase the MIPSpro compilers, the GNU compilers are available. All Freeware software is at http:// freeware.sgi.com/ and all the manuals/books are at Techpubs in HTML and PDF format http://techpubs.sgi.com . C++ coding standard for IRIX and GNU C++ are at http://www.sgi.com/tech/mlc/docs/cc-coding.ps I suggest if you can get it, to install IRIX 6.5.22 or later. IRIX 6.5.30 is the latest. You can then install the DST (Daylight Savings Time) patch for IRIX 6.5.22 to 6.5.30 (new patch for 6.5.30). IRIX 6.5.2f to 6.5.21f (f for Feature set, m for maintenance) require you to download a new tzdata file (from tp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/), modify /etc/TIMEZONE, and run the zic compiler for your locale. I can email you or provide you all this information if you need it. I also wrote TONS of documentation for work on installing IRIX, startup/shutdown procedures, backup procedures and I can send that to you also. I have expertise on IRIX 4.0, 5.3, 6.2,6.3,6.4 and 6.5.x on all kinds of MIPS and SGI hardware from MIPS workstations, SGI Personal IRIS, Indys, Indigos, O2s, Octanes, Crimsons, and Origin servers (200, 300, 3800). But I only have Indys, O2s, Octanes, Origin servers, and maybe an Indigo Impact for me to use. Most of everything else was upgraded or replaced. Let me know if you need anything. I'd be happy to help you out. -Darin

17 years, 1 month

New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi 1. Where did you see all these crates. (I'm in the UK) 2. Nice shiny new boards in old back planes ? Rod -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Allison Sent: 03 June 2007 12:34 To: cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: RE: New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available > >Subject: RE: New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available > From: "Rod Smallwood" <RodSmallwood at mail.ediconsulting.co.uk> > Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 23:52:27 +0100 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" ><cctech at classiccmp.org> > >Prototype boards are nice but whats really needed is an S100 card cage with back plane and PSU. >Its normal to build the foundations before the rest of the house!! > >Rod Smallwood There are plenty of S100 crates around usually with boards missing or damaged. That is rarely a problem, Working bords to fill it or proto on are. Allison > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org >[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Roy J. Tellason >Sent: 02 June 2007 21:10 >To: CCTECH >Subject: Re: New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available > >On Saturday 02 June 2007 10:26, Dan wrote: >> I've been working on a pcb design for a S-100 prototype board. I >> noticed a few people on the forums asking about this. I decided to >> make this since this is a big hobby of mine too(member-MARCH club). I >> based this design on a old prototype board I kept back from the S-100 >> days. It's made by Electronic Control Technology. >> >> Here's a link to the picture >> http://pghvintage.home.comcast.net/p...otypeboard.jpg >> <http://pghvintage.home.comcast.net/pics/S-100/s-100_prototypeboard.j >> p >> g> >> >> There were several different styles made before--each with their own >> advantages. This prototype board(in pic) has the rows in a vertical >> pattern to allow 300mil and 600mil DIP packages. It also accommodates >> 2 voltage regulators. Then there were some which only had a grid of >> solder pads to allow any arrangement of 300mil and 600mil DIP packages. >> >> I like to ask everyone what their preference might be in the >> arrangement of the solder pads, eg: vertical rows, horizontal rows, >> grid, etc. If I get enough feedback, I can include 2 different styles. >> It's not much work to alter the design. I have a panel setup to >> include 2 pcb designs at the moment, and it can be any 2 kinds of >> S-100 designs. In the future, I like to setup a bigger panel to >> include several more S-100 designs. >> >> Since this is mainly a hobby for me, I thought I might help out and >> offer this service. I'm designing this from my home workshop and >> intend to make this an affordable hobby. In case anyone is >> interested, with enough orders(minimum 30) then I can offer these for only $15 each. > >Hmm, good question! > >I have currently only two S-100 systems, a Cromemco System 3 with problems in the PersSci drive. The floppy that was in the drive when I got it had been in there and run so long that you could see clearly through the track zero location. :-) I have some data on this stuff somewhere, and it appears that they're using incandescent bulbs for such stuff as index sensors and such? And the Imsai, here. > >Got a Vector S-100 backplane too, that I've started to build, only I >lack a few parts. Most importantly the S-100 connectors themselves. >:-( > >I also have a couple of prototyping cards, I *think* they're Vector as well, but haven't done anything with 'em yet to come up with a preference. I guess vertical rows makes more sense in terms of air flow for heat dissipation? >That for the heatsinks for sure, though a lot of systems I saw mention of later on in the popular period for S-100 seemed to be inclined to put a regulated switching power supply in place and simply jumper across the regulator positions. I dunno, to me the distributed approach always made a lot of sense. > >-- >Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" >- >Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. >--James M Dakin > > >

17 years, 1 month

HP 1000 21MX Wont turn on, No PS voltage

by g-wright＠att.net

-------------- Original message from "Glen Slick" <glen.slick at gmail.com>: -------------- > On 6/2/07, g-wright at att.net wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have a HP 1000 21MX that wont bring up the Power supply. Has AC to it > > and the fans come on. It has a some what different battery backup connections > > on the rear than a 2117F. I tried the resister jumper from a 2117F but no > go. > > There is no voltage output from the PS on any leg. Is there something > different about > > these or do I need to trouble shoot the Power Supply > > > > Is a 21MX a 2105A / 08A / 09A / 12A / 13A? My direct experience is > limited to a 2113E and a 2117F (plus a 2100A that doesn't quite work > at the moment). > > -Glen The HP tag on the back says its a 2105A - jerry

17 years, 1 month

HP3000 rescue in Missouri

by steerex＠mindspring.com

> >So, how is the "open sourcing" or at least the "prying of the source >code from HP's hands" going >or MPE? >Regards, >Michael L Gueterman >Integrated Information Systems, Inc. >-- Will this machice run the same MPE/V as the smaller systems (IE 3000/42) ? See ya, SteveRob

17 years, 1 month

New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Prototype boards are nice but whats really needed is an S100 card cage with back plane and PSU. Its normal to build the foundations before the rest of the house!! Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Roy J. Tellason Sent: 02 June 2007 21:10 To: CCTECH Subject: Re: New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available On Saturday 02 June 2007 10:26, Dan wrote: > I've been working on a pcb design for a S-100 prototype board. I > noticed a few people on the forums asking about this. I decided to > make this since this is a big hobby of mine too(member-MARCH club). I > based this design on a old prototype board I kept back from the S-100 > days. It's made by Electronic Control Technology. > > Here's a link to the picture > http://pghvintage.home.comcast.net/p...otypeboard.jpg > <http://pghvintage.home.comcast.net/pics/S-100/s-100_prototypeboard.jp > g> > > There were several different styles made before--each with their own > advantages. This prototype board(in pic) has the rows in a vertical > pattern to allow 300mil and 600mil DIP packages. It also accommodates > 2 voltage regulators. Then there were some which only had a grid of > solder pads to allow any arrangement of 300mil and 600mil DIP packages. > > I like to ask everyone what their preference might be in the > arrangement of the solder pads, eg: vertical rows, horizontal rows, > grid, etc. If I get enough feedback, I can include 2 different styles. > It's not much work to alter the design. I have a panel setup to > include 2 pcb designs at the moment, and it can be any 2 kinds of > S-100 designs. In the future, I like to setup a bigger panel to > include several more S-100 designs. > > Since this is mainly a hobby for me, I thought I might help out and > offer this service. I'm designing this from my home workshop and > intend to make this an affordable hobby. In case anyone is interested, > with enough orders(minimum 30) then I can offer these for only $15 each. Hmm, good question! I have currently only two S-100 systems, a Cromemco System 3 with problems in the PersSci drive. The floppy that was in the drive when I got it had been in there and run so long that you could see clearly through the track zero location. :-) I have some data on this stuff somewhere, and it appears that they're using incandescent bulbs for such stuff as index sensors and such? And the Imsai, here. Got a Vector S-100 backplane too, that I've started to build, only I lack a few parts. Most importantly the S-100 connectors themselves. :-( I also have a couple of prototyping cards, I *think* they're Vector as well, but haven't done anything with 'em yet to come up with a preference. I guess vertical rows makes more sense in terms of air flow for heat dissipation? That for the heatsinks for sure, though a lot of systems I saw mention of later on in the popular period for S-100 seemed to be inclined to put a regulated switching power supply in place and simply jumper across the regulator positions. I dunno, to me the distributed approach always made a lot of sense. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

17 years, 1 month

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test-drb June 2007