test-drb June 2007

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

224 participants
486 discussions

New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available

by marvin＠west.net

I also use PCBExpress for the small boards I make (transmitters and offset attenuators for transmitter hunting), and they are quick and inexpensive. I'm told by a friend of mine that a place in (I think) Bulgeria makes good quality boards at a better price (and are ROHS compliant) but I haven't tried them. Sidelight - The guy who started PCBExpress lives in Santa Barbara and used to work for Polymorphic Systems. One of the things *I* am interested in is finding out is if a "MicroAltair" was ever made by Polymorphic or if it was a preliminary announcement that got quashed by MITS. That was why the reason for the conversation I had with him (still don't know, but got another lead to find out.) Marvin, KE6HTS > but the "bare bones" boards. I use them for prototypes too. If you want > high volume large "bare bones" PCBs, NO ONE (that I've found) so far can > beat PCBExpress. I used them to make 20 14x12" PCBs for my 19,008 LED > bitmap display. I think the bill was $340. :D They are kind of strange > about drill sizes... You have to choose from around 15 sizes. > > Grant

17 years, 1 month

General Announcement: Vintage Computer Festival East 4.0, this weekend!

by evan＠snarc.net

For immediate release: MARCH, VintageTech, and the InfoAge Science Center announce the Vintage Computer Festival East 4.0 * What: A celebration of computers, technology, and culture from the 1940s - 1980s. Open to the public * When: June 9-10. Lectures from 10am-2pm, exhibits from 2pm-6pm both days * Where: InfoAge Science Center, 2201 Marconi Rd., Wall Township, N.J., 07719 * Cost: $10 for one day, $15 for two days, free for 12 and younger, free parking * Contact: Evan Koblentz, evank at midatlanticretro.org, 646-546-9999 ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- Do 8 bits excite you more than 64? Prefer blinkenlights over SVGA? Yearn for the days of input via toggle switches and paper tape? Or just want to play some Pac-Man? Then check out the Vintage Computer Festival East 4.0, June 9-10, at the InfoAge Science Center in Wall, New Jersey. This year's event is again hosted by MARCH -- the Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists. The Vintage Computer Festival began in 1997 in Silicon Valley, migrated eastward in 2001, and became a MARCH event in 2006. So what is a VCF? Imagine an antique car show where every owner let you test-drive his car, and where Henry Ford gave a lecture and signed autographs! It sounds unreal, but that's what happens with vintage computer technology at every edition of the VCF. This year's edition of the VCF East will feature 20 exhibits of computer technology from the 1940s to 1980s. Visitors will have the opportunity to use an IBM punch-card machine, witness a legendary Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-8 minicomputer in action, and experience all the top brands of 1970s microcomputers from companies like Apple, Commodore, and many others. Older S-100 kit computers, single-board computers, portables, and even analog and prehistoric computer technology will be demonstrated. On the extremes, we have one exhibitor preparing to show an authentic NASA Apollo flight computer, and another who'll display the most classic videogame console ever -- Atari -- play it 'til you drop! Read the full exhibitor list at http://www.vintage.org/2007/east/exhibit.php. If that's not enough, then listen to some of our guest speakers. The highlight this year will be a 30th anniversary panel in honor of Commodore, which was headquartered nearby in West Chester, Pennsylvania. The panel's star is Chuck Peddle, inventor of the famous MOS Technology 6502 chip, used in a wide variety of classic single-board computers and in microcomputers such as the Commodore PET and the Apple II. Peddle will join us via live videoconference, in which he promises to share previously untold stories, after which he'll answer audience questions. Commodore engineers appearing live at our show will include Bil Herd, Bob Russell, and Dave Haynie. We'll even have a birthday cake featuring the famous Commodore "Chickenhead" logo. Other speakers this year include Herb "Dr. S-100" Johnson, who'll explain the history of the CP/M operating system; Bill Degnan and Sellam Ismail; who together will give a crash-course in vintage computer discovery and restoration; and others to be announced. In addition, Ismail will give a second talk, but the topic is secret! You'll have to be there to find out what he plans. Yet another highlight of the VCF East 4.0 will be our new VCF Theatre, organized by acclaimed technology filmmaker Jason Scott. His films include "BBS: The Documentary" and the upcoming "Get Lamp" about text-adventure games. At the VCF Theatre, he'll be screening vintage computer-themed movies all weekend long in the afternoons. New this year is the donate-to-sell booth. Here, everyone is welcome to donate vintage computing items, with all proceeds to help MARCH build its computer museum. Our museum directly benefits future generations, so do your part and give something to this wonderful non-profit cause! (We request that any unsold items be re-claimed before you leave the VCF.) Did we mention the prizes? We'll have t-shirts, vintage computer replica kits, books, and maybe a surprise or two. All you have to do to win is show up, and be there when we announce winners each day. Finally, should your historic technology interest extend beyond just computers, then you've come to the right place. Our venue at the InfoAge Science Center is historic in itself. The facility began life in 1912 as an R&D center for Britain's Marconi Wireless Telegraph Co., and then spent several decades as Camp Evans, a top-secret laboratory of the U.S. military. RADAR that first spotted airplanes over Pearl Harbor and mankind's first radio signal to the moon were invented here, along with numerous other achievements. Today, the center is on the National Register of Historic Places and is a Black History Site. It's also home to the National Broadcasters Hall of Fame and an assortment of non-profit clubs all related to the history of technology, with a local focus. Driving directions, lodging information, exhibit details and more are posted at www.vintage.org/2007/east/. * For more information about MARCH, visit www.midatlanticretro.org * For more information about the InfoAge Science Center, visit www.infoage.org * For more information about VintageTech, visit www.vintagetech.com General questions? Want to exhibit or have a vendor booth at the VCF East? Member of the media? Contact VCF East producer and MARCH president Evan Koblentz, evank at midatlanticretro.org, 646-546-9999.

17 years, 1 month

MODCOMP II Rescue Revisited...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

A number of you probably remember me "announcing" in Jan, 2007 that I had rescued a MODCOMP II/12 from a lab here in Silicon Valley. The link for that is below (sorry, it's slow - the pictures are large). http://bickleywest.com/modcomp.htm After a lot of work cleaning up both the CPU and I/O chassis I began checking out the system. It turned out that the I/O chassis was in pretty bad shape. I went back to the lab facility where I found the MODCOMP II - looked through several more buildings - and found another lone MODCOMP II I/O chassis. I went through the "salvage" process again - and finally picked it up about a month ago. It was in a lot better shape than the original I/O unit. And the really great news - it was an identical configuration to my original I/O chassis. After cleaning it up, doing all the usual capacitor, power supply checking - I powered it up - and everything "looked" good - and no bad "cooking" smells ;-) I cabled up the CPU and I/O unit, powered 'em up - and to my amazement the front panel controls seemed to work O.K. I then did the usual hand memory tests - and core memory worked O.K. every location I tested. I then wrote a bunch of small diagnostics (in machine code) - and found that I/O was not easy to code - but I did enough to check that the console in/out ports worked O.K. Today I loaded diagnostic monitors, and diags - and most of the system - including I/O is working! The really good news is that all 64K (words) of core memory passed the long manufacturing memory diagnostic - which even tests for "hot cores" failing. It's been months in the making this critter come alive - but it sure feels great when the diagnostics tell you that you are on the right track :-) Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

17 years, 1 month

New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available

by aek＠bitsavers.org

If you are doing a design with on-board regulators in the 21st century, why not use integrated switching rather than linear regulators? Heat dissipation will be MUCH lower if you do this.

17 years, 1 month

ebay "unpaid item strike" -- what's the consequence?

by marvin＠rain.org

If you are listed as the buyer, you should still be able to leave appropriate feedback. Just be aware that the ebay system supports retalitory feedback by the other party even though Ebay officially disallows it (they lie consistantly.) Generally, you can avoid retalitory feedback by just not leaving feedback. The other way is to "snipe" the feedback at the 60 day limit of when you can leave feedback (or so I've been told.) > From: Richard > > Well the seller is still being an asshole and refusing to answer a > simple question about how the item would be shipped. He says he's > going to relist it and stop wasting his time with me because I'm > "playing games". Some people love to do things the hard way! He's > wasted much more time dicking around trying to make a dispute out of > this instead of just answering the question I posed to him after the > sale completed.

17 years, 1 month

How do I get my money back? (from dishonest ebay seller)

by vax9000＠gmail.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=260115466844 I sent her $50 post office money order, including some extras for better packaging. But she did not answer emails, and she did not send me anything. She cheated some 10+ other people in the same period of time. I know, she had negative feedback back in 2002 before these recent auctions. But her auctions did not look like fraud when I bid. I heard that it is classified as mail fraud. If I report to the mail office, at least they are going to send her a letter to threaten her. Does anybody here have such experience? How do I proceed? Help please. vax, 9000

17 years, 1 month

New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

I would be interested if the shipping cost to the UK is not too much. A single 12 slot board with connectors but no metal work or card guides would Be as stripped down as you could go. Rod -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David Griffith Sent: 04 June 2007 07:41 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: New pcb design for S-100 prototype board available On Mon, 4 Jun 2007, Rod Smallwood wrote: > >On top of that, S100 motherboards are still fairly easy to find. If > anyone's >interested, I'll have some ready for sale in a couple weeks. > > And how much will they cost ? > Populated? > Whats included? > How many slots? I'm not sure how much they'll cost. Most of them are 12-slot boards, mostly Morrow Wunderbuss models of one sort or another. There's a big CompuPro chassis with 20-slot board and power supply. I also have a bunch of assorted cards. With summer approaching, I'll likely have more time to sell off this stuff. Oh, and those of you who wanted those 8-inch drives, I still have your names. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

17 years, 1 month

Repairing the damage.

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi I probably failed to make my self clear. 1. Yes MOP is part of a whole heap of programs that go to make up DECNET 2. MOP stands for Maintenance Operations Protocol and that what is was for. 3 It pre dates DECnet (Well at lest internally in DEC) 4. It can be run on its own. 5. It's a much lower level system than LAT or LAVC that run at the application (top) level of the OSI Model 6. It runs at the network level (Layer 3) in the seven layer OSI model 7. Of course there is a physical network and enough of a driver in the firmware in the target VAX to exchange frames with the MOP running in the boot server. (I found a list of them) So in that sense it is running a subset of Decnet. However let's not confuse a low level maintenance tool with all the good stuff the full version of Decnet gives you. 8. Its twenty-five years since I was a product manager in DEC SWS. No wonder I'm a bit hazy on this stuff! Regards Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rick Murphy Sent: 04 June 2007 14:14 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Repairing the damage. At 04:23 PM 6/3/2007, Rod Smallwood wrote: > >Your server (the VAX 4000-200) does have to be running DECnet. Er no it >doesn't and isn't. I attended a 1976 DEC engineering meeting where this >was discussed. It just my personal memory has a long access time. >Download and run was around long before Decnet was thought of. I'm not sure why I'm responding to this troll, but I can't resist. The server must be running a MOP listener. That's the protocol that the client uses when you boot the ethernet device. MOP is a DECnet protocol. For many versions of VMS, the way you get a MOP listener is to install DECnet. For VMS 7.0 and later, there's a separate MOP listener that provides just that part of DECnet. >There's no Decnet or any other normal network involved. Crap. You MUST have a network to run a Local Area VAXcluster. You know, a *Local Area Network*? LAVC booting uses DECnet to boot. You can't make any of this work without a LAN, without DECnet. I suppose you'll keep flailing around hoping that something will work, blaming others for your mistakes. Enjoy yourself. >I am also >beginning to suspect that the whole cluster thing is another GRH (Giant >Red Herring) Huh? Nope, if you followed the very detailed directions you've been given, you could diskless boot the server. You could then try to get a disk set up and booted. Not a red herring at all. >Whats actually happening is an old diagnostic tool is being used to >download and run a program on a remote system to exclude the disk >drives from the test. LANCP is not an "old diagnostic tool" it's actually fairly recent. Using CLUSTER_CONFIG as you're supposed to will use it to set up the client download. Did you try that? Probably not. -Rick

17 years, 1 month

3174 Terminal Controller

by ian_primus＠yahoo.com

Well, this has been one of those ideas that has been at the back of my mind for a long time - I would like to interface one of these IBM terminals I have around the house to something. Anything. I was thinking about an emulated mainframe on Hercules or something. But the thing that brings this to the foreground in my thoughts is that today I had to troubleshoot a 3174-51R at a customer's site. This thing is connected, via a rather unusual cable, to a Cisco 2500 series router, so that means the 25 pin connector on the back must be some form of X.25 or something like that. I know that the fellow at corestore.org has been able to get a real IBM terminal to telnet into an emulated system via a terminal controller with built in ethernet (although I have never seen one). Anyone done this before? What do I need to hunt for? I now have one piece of the puzzle that I was never able to find before - the manual for the 3174-51R. Now the terminal controller's operation can be deciphered. But, of course, I don't have the 3174. -Ian

17 years, 1 month

3174 Terminal Controller

by James＠jdfogg.com

> But the thing that brings this to the foreground in my > thoughts is that today I had to troubleshoot a 3174-51R at a > customer's site. This thing is connected, via a rather > unusual cable, to a Cisco 2500 series router, so that means > the 25 pin connector on the back must be some form of X.25 or > something like that. I know that the fellow at corestore.org > has been able to get a real IBM terminal to telnet into an > emulated system via a terminal controller with built in > ethernet (although I have never seen one). This is usually SDLC that is source-route-bridged over IP. S390 Open System Adapters (or whatever they called the ethernet/ip adapters for old S390's) could talk SRB/IP. It's been 13 years since I played with these. So, on the "cluster controller" (3174) end you have stock SDLC via synchronous serial on either RS232 or V.35. On the server end you'll need to get hercules to emulate an OSA.

17 years, 1 month

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test-drb June 2007