test-drb January 2002

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

303 participants
1201 discussions

by vcf＠vintage.org

These pictures suck but can anyone possibly identify this hard drive? http://www.siconic.com/crap/bdisk2_f.jpg http://www.siconic.com/crap/bdisk2_s.jpg Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

22 years, 11 months

Sequent Symmetry S2000-450

by spedraja＠ono.com

Hello everybody. It's possible I could obtain one Sequent Symmetry S2000-450 in a relatively short place. A similar system can be viewed in this eBay address: http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1311505028&ed=1009557… The system comes complete, with software, hardware and documentation. It need three pallets to be transported. There is another opportunity to get one Sequent Symmetry S5000 that uses 4 Pentium processors and 1 Gb of memory, but this is in private negotiation. Do Somebody has information about these systems ? They appears to use Four processors 486, a Numa architecture to share memory, and one version of Unix named Dynix. Is there some porting of the Gnu utilities to it ? Thanks and Greetings. Sergio

22 years, 11 months

FreeVMS

by pjschilling＠gcstech.net

My, that means my Vax 6000 isn't? Phil Merle K. Peirce wrote: > If it doesn't have wheels, it isn't really a computer. oh good!!! my celeron linux server *has* wheels :^)

22 years, 11 months

Toshiba T3200SX Question

by CLeyson＠aol.com

On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 tothwolf(a)concentric.net wrote: >> Standard twisted pair ribbon cable terminated with a 26 way 0.1in >> pitch IDC transition connector which is soldered to the board. I will >> probably cut the cable and remove the connector (one pin at a time) >> and replace with a standard IDC plug and socket. >Why not just desolder the connector? Braid works well for some of those >plated through boards, just watch the heat or it can lift the pads. I managed to dismantle the plasma display and all of the cables can be disconnected at the display end. It would have been a lot easier to fit PSU and mother board connectors as well. Just have to clean up the mother board now. Chris

22 years, 11 months

PS/2 Model 70

by dittman＠dittman.net

I found a couple of 2MB PS/2 SIMMs that I had stashed away and put them in my PS/2 Model 70, so I now have 8MB of RAM. I haven't cracked the password on the Xenix386 installation, but thought from the discussion that OS/2 would be a better operating system to play with anyway. I have OS/2 2.1. Would that be a good choice? If so, is there a way to make floppies from the installation CD? I haven't messed with OS/2 for a long time. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

22 years, 11 months

NEXT Color Printer find

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] ! ! ! On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: ! ! > I would imagine it was to talk to the printer. IIRC early Macs used ! > SCSI printers, too. Pretty neat. I wonder how hard a SCSI <-> ! > parallel interface would be to build. ! ! I seem to remember seeing a few companies offer these kinds ! of bridges, ! but I doubt they would work for anything other then a printer. I have here on my desk, an UNused Hewlett Packard 88395 SCSI/Parallel Interface. With it's power supply. :-) Need any more info? Like what's inside? ! I have a SCSI <-> ethernet bridge around here somewhere. I ! think it was ! made for older Macs that lacked nubus or another means of ! expansion. It ! reports itself as a disk device, but I haven't done much with it yet. That's a neat thing. Do you remember who the manufacturer is? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

22 years, 11 months

PET music (Was: hmm, don't remember what the thread was originally :)

by mhstein＠usa.net

Not sure what you're looking for here, hardware or software? Seems to me any S/W not using CB2 would require _some_ kind of special hardware, however trivial. At least 2 come to mind, the Petunia, and the MTU 4 voice/16 harmonics systems for both PETs and KIM/SYM/AIMs; is one of these what you're thinking of? The cheap & dirty method was just a resistor ladder across the parallel interface as a D/A converter; might still have one of these & some S/W, but don't hold your breath, haven't looked at the CBM pile in ages. Hmmm... just ran across an old ad for an accounting package for a KIM/SYM; wouldn't you have enjoyed being the data entry operator for that? Think I'd prefer even a Windows package... -------------Original Message---------------- From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> <snip> ObClassic: Does anyone have any software for making music on the PET with *other* than CB2 sound? I had a buddy with a clip-on user port music card - it was an 8-bit D-to-A like a Disney Sound Source. The PET shoved bytes out the user port and they appoximated music. I can't remember what it was called.

22 years, 11 months

Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Gene Buckle <geneb(a)deltasoft.com> > How about: "Stupid people suck."? > > > Everyone in this world may not have had the level of > > opportunity ( in education, employment, etc. ) that > > many of you have had. Before coming down on him so hard, > > I would at least be willing to consider "his story"? > > > Level of "opportunity" my butt. He got whatever opportunity he made for > himself. Anything else is entitlement-minded whining. He's a lazy > communicator and is getting slapped around for it. Deal. Gene -- you are right on. Slobs choose to be slobs all on their own, and then they have to deal with being slobs. It's a tough life ;>) Glen 0/0

22 years, 11 months

7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 3

by marvin＠rain.org

============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 3 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy Technical FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.1 Last Update: 7/01/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu>. The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 3 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with regularly asked questions which are technical in nature. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://weber.u. washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.27 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as classiccmp.faq. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: New Sections: 5.1 Updated Sections: 1.2, 2.4, 4.1, 5.1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. General ------------------ 1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do? 1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes? 2. Media -------- 2.1 What's a hard sector disk? What's a soft sector disk? 2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc. 2.3 Can these formats be interchanged? 2.4 What disk sizes are there? 2.5 How do I take care of old media? 3. Component Failure Issues --------------------------- 3.1 Do EPROM's go bad? 3.2 How about ROM's, other chips? 3.3 How about capacitors? 3.4 Anything else? 3.5 So how do I backup all this stuff like you suggest? 4. Software ----------- 4.1 Where can I get a system disk for platform X? 4.2 What's the best way to back up my software? 5. Specific Problems/Solutions ------------------------------ 5.1 Is it possible to bypass an RF modulator to achieve composite output? ============================================================================= 1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do? Don't power it up yet! All of the following should probably be done before that power switch gets flipped. Open the case - clean and visually inspect components. You're looking for traces of smoke, water, corrosion, loose screws, blown caps and resistors, cold (broken) solder joints, bent pins, etc. It may be a good idea to remove and re-seat all socketed components and connectors. If anything burned or overheated it will probably pay to replace it before powering up the unit. You can avoid a number of problems just by taking a peek inside. If you have the tools (and the machine is sufficiently rare) pull and dump backups of all EPROMs, ROMs, and PALs. If you have really cool tools (like a logic analyzer) it has been suggested that you use them to record critical information from those oh-so-hard-to-find custom chips. Specific information on how to do this is beyond the scope of a FAQ, but you probably know what you need to if you own the appropriate tools. Disconnect the power supply from the rest of the computer and start it up on a "dummy load". A six volt headlight bulb has been recommended as a convenient load. These should be available from any decent Volkswagen shop. Running the power supply without a load could result in damage to it. You may want to check the voltage output before you do this as it could be no where near the 5V average in micros. Even if you don't want to connect a load it's still probably a good idea to power it up separately from the computer for the first time. If you have a really rare beast it may be worth powering up some of the key capacitors out of circuit just to get them warmed up. Now you can power it up. Assuming it works, take a blank disk, format it, write some data to it, and read it back before using your precious software with it, as a bad disk drive could really ruin your day. 1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes? Cases: It seems best to start gently with such old equipment. Try soaking in a little water and dish soap and then scrubbing. This takes care of most jobs. For removing stickers try mineral oil or Goo-Gone (available at most hardware stores - in the US at least). If those don't work, acetone can be good but, if overused, can do more harm. For removing marker, almost any solvent is good (alcohol, naptha, etc) but will definitely discolor or dissolve plastic if not carefully applied. Lava soap is also good for removing marker but can smooth off textured plastic. For removing sun or tobacco discoloring a product called Purple Stuff available from auto parts stores (again, in the US at least) seems to do the job almost effortlessly. Recommended commercial products: Purple Stuff from Kragen [for discoloration] Brasso [ink/marker] (can discolor plastic) Antistatic Foam Cleaner from Electrolube [for discoloration/markings] Citra-Solv [for discoloration] (can dissolve plastic if undiluted) Cameo Copper Cleaner [ink/marker] Naptha [for stickers/goop/spooge] (very flammable) 3M GP Adhesive Remover [for stickers/goop/spooge] CRC 226 / CRC 556 [for stickers/goop/spooge] Fulcron [for discoloration] Blue Shower / BS II [for stickers/goop/spooge] Connectors: For edge connectors a plain pink eraser seems good for removing corrosion. Apparently other colors of eraser indicate a different texture - which may be damaging. Make sure to wipe the connectors with a clean cloth after erasing on them. There are a large number chemicals on the market that "magically" remove corrosion from components but as I don't know how safe they are, I'm not anxious to promote any of them. For pin style connectors a toothbrush and some softscrub or other mildly abrasive cleaner do wonders. Recommended commercial products: Electrolube contact cleaning sprays. Keyboards: I find a cycle through the dishwasher does a really nice job on keyboards. Just be sure they're completely dry before you put any power to them. If there is reason not to use a dishwasher (some key labels can come off) it is usually possible to remove each keycap and clean conventionally. [][][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What's a hard sectored disk? What's a soft sectored disk? We'll start with soft-sector since they're simpler to explain. On a soft-sector floppy disk the information that marks where a sector begins and ends is written to the disk by the computer (part of the formatting process). This means that various computers can use the same floppy disk types because the format of the disk is control- led by the operating system. Hard sector disks use a system of perforations in the media to mark the beginnings and ends of sectors. This means that computers which used hard sectored disks required the exact disk type they specified rather than a generic soft-sector floppy. A number of differently sectored disks were available - at least 10, 13, and 16 sector formats. 8 inch and 5.25 inch disks commonly used hard sectoring. 3.5 inch disks never came hard-sectored and, in fact, it would not be possible. 2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc. These all refer to the number of useable sides on a disk and it's density (how "efficiently" the magnetic bits are pushed together). SS/SD is a Single Sided - Single Density disk, the earliest available type I believe. The storage afforded by a single density disk was very small compared to today's standards. Single Sided disks were popular because they were cheaper than DS and could be easily modified with a hole punch into double sided disks. SD was followed by Double Density which, amazingly, doubled the amount of storage space. Double Density was followed by the extremely short-lived Quad Density which doubled a DD disk. QD was short lived because High Density was right on it's heels and nearly doubled disk capacity again. DS/HD was as sophisticated as 5.25" disks became. 3.5" disks have progressed as far as DS/EHD double-sided / extra-high density. 2.3 Can these formats be interchanged? Well, that may depend on what computer you are using, but in general the following substitutions may be made: Desired Format Substitute --------------------------------------------------- Single Density Double Density Double Density none reliably Quad Density DD, HD (sometimes work, not advisable!) High Density none Other substitutions may be made, but due to physical differences in how the disks are made they are generally unreliable. It can almost be guaranteed that data written to a proper density disk of poor quality will last longer than data written to a good quality disk of the wrong density. In the case of quad density no substitution should be considered reliable. DD and HD disks both can be forced to work. One may work better than the other given the peculiarities of various drives. 2.4 What disk sizes are there? Disk Types? Physically? Standard Disks Unique/Proprietary Disks --------------------------------------------------------- 8" (Floppy) 5" (MiniFloppy) 5.25" (MiniFloppy) 3.25" (MicroFloppy) 3.5" (MicroFloppy) 3" (MicroFloppy) 2.5" 2" In addition to odd sizes - there is at least one type of disk which was physically different. "Twiggy" disks for the Apple Lisa 1 were regular 5.25" disks with the exception that they had two read/write windows. One was oriented "north" of the center hole, the other "south". 2.5 How do I take care of old media? Step one is Back It Up! After that, make sure it's kept in a clean, dry, temperature-controlled environment (I keep mine in a broken freezer). With disks it seems important to keep them standing on end rather than lying flat - the same goes for cassette tapes. I like to exercise disks and tapes at least once every six months although I have no real evidence that this has any positive effect. I have modified an old C64 floppy drive to simply spin when a disk is inserted and send large stacks of disks through it on a regular basis just to make sure they're not starting to stick up internally. An exciting and somewhat recent development is that availability of classic computer emulators that can make disk images of old media on PC's and Macs. This seems to be a very good way to backup disks since they will eventually go bad no matter how well we take care of them. The official line seems to be that floppy disks have a shelf-life of approximately 10 years. With proper care many are lasting a lot longer. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 Do EPROM's go bad? Definitely. They apparently are considered to reliably contain data for (on the outside edge) 15 years. This amount can be considerably reduced if, for example, the sticker over the window has dried out and fallen off. Luckily EPROMs were not used too extensively but they're out there. An EPROM writer/reader is a relatively cheap investment and an easy fix. Even if an EPROM has "forgotten" it's data it is still fine for being "re-educated". 3.2 How about ROMs and other chips? Things wear out. It's likely that even components which have not been fried by catastrophic failure will simply start to die someday. ROMs can be dumped to a file and re-written if they die. Other custom chips which are all too common in micros will be far more difficult to replace. The best advice is to stockpile these chips when you can - but someday even unused chips will probably start to turn up bad. In this case the best defense is to stockpile information in the hope of being able to modify an existing component to meet your needs. 3.3 How about capacitors? This seems to be another large concern, but rather than being an unreplaceable component a capacitor will take your unreplaceable components with it when it goes. It's a good idea to check out all the caps in a system if you haven't fired it up in a while. Caps go bad with time (even tantalum caps, apparently - although they are more reliable) and should be replaced if they are suspect. It's unlikely that it will be impossible to find a replacement capacitor as they are much more standard electronic components. 3.4 Anything else? Documentation: If there's anything which is entirely unreplaceable its the docs for uncommon equipment. Once they're gone, they're gone. I regularly pick up docs I find for equipment I don't have just because I may someday. Paper will, of course. go bad over time but it will be obvious and they will be easily duplicated. Hard Disks: ST-251s, ST-502s, MFM, RLL... old hard disks are going to go bad. Then they'll be gone. Theoretically, I suppose it's possible to crack a hard drive and replace a dead bearing, realign, relaminate, etc... but I've never heard of anyone doing these things in their base- ment. Perhaps in another 5 or 10 years many of us will be experts at this. 3.5 So, how do I back up all this stuff like you suggest? This answer will undoubtedly get longer as I learn more. The best ways seem to be to dump the particular ROM (or whatever) using the approp- riate equipment to a floppy disk (which most of this equipment allows). >From there you can transfer the data to either a CD-ROM - convenient but not long term reliable storage or to mylar tape which may be inconvenient - but the official word on how long it lasts is "Damn near forever." Punch tape units are available and apparently not difficult to use with a PC (PC - the great multi-purpose classic computer peripheral). Optical tape readers are recommended. Recommended products: Tape Writers: Facit 4070, Teletype BRPE. Tape Readers: Trend 700 [][][][][][][][][][] 4.1 Where do I get a system disk for platform X? Since this is a tough one, let me break it down a little: Apple II: System disks for the Apple II are available from Apple at ftp.apple.com. Apple III system disks aren't available although probably will be soon on the ClassicCmp site. Apple Lisa disks aren't availble and probably will not be due to the extreme measure of copy protection used on them. Older Mac system software is availble on the Apple site. CP/M Systems: Ak! These can be a pain. The best source (although I've never actually talked to him) seems to be Don Maslin who runs the Dina-SIG system disk archive. He charges a small fee for the service - which I imagine is well worth the cost! He can be contacted on the internet at <donm(a)cts.com>. Other systems - let me know. 4.2 What's the best way to back up my software? One of the most promising ways that has come up is to use a PC with a soundcard as a really expensive cassette recorder for data storage. Fundamentally there's not much difference between a real recorder and and a PC equipped with sound. By storing your software in your favorite PC sound file format you can then back up to CD or tape or whatever PC medium you like. Most micros came equipped with the ability to store programs to tape and I would imagine that it would be easy to modify computers without this capability to use one. In addition, the rapid rise in the popularity of emulators has given rise to a number of disk image formats for old machines. In many cases it is possible to read/write disk images for classic computers with modern PCs. [][][][][][][][][][] 5.1 Is it possible to bypass an RF modulator to achieve composite output? Possibly - depending on what you're working on. In the simplest case it is possible to simply run off of the inputs to the modulator right to your monitor. Some setups will apparently require a video amplifier. It has also been suggested that it may help to turn of the termination switch at the monitor. ============================================================================= CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks go out to the following people for much of this information: (some credited by e-mail handle) Adam Bergstrom Kai Kaltenbach Alexios Chouchoulas Keith Whitehead Captain Napalm Ricardo Romagnoli Chris Starling J. Maynard Gelinas Dave Jenner Douglas Zander George Lin Greg Mast Jay Vaughn Jeff Hellige Jim Strickland Jim Willing Larry Anderson Martin Evans Paul Coad Roger Merchberger Ron Mitchell Sam Ismail Tony (A.R. Duell) William Donzelli ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ==============================================================================

22 years, 11 months

7/01/97 ClassicCmp FAQ - Part 2

by marvin＠rain.org

============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 2 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy List Specific FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.2 Last Update: 7/01/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu>. The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 2 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with regular day-to-day issues on the list. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://weber.u. washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.27 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as classiccmp.faq. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: New Sections: 1.5, 1.7, 2.9, 2.10 Updated Sections: 1.1, 2.3, 2.4, 3.1 Removed: 5.4, 6.1-on ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. About the List ----------------- 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? 1.3 What's a Classic Computer? 1.4 Who runs this thing? 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? 1.6 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done? 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? 2. Protocol and Etiquette ------------------------- 2.1 What can I talk about? 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? 2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames? 2.4 Can I post advertisements? 2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers? 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x? 2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question? 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS?!? 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? 2.10 Can I use obscene languagein my posts? 3. Misc List Information ------------------------ 3.1 How many subscribers are there? 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? 3.3 Is this list archived? 4. ClassicCmp Resources on the Net ---------------------------------- 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site? 4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly? 4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP Site? Collecting ---------- 5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers? 5.2 How much is machine x worth? 5.3 Will thousands of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? 5.4 I don't understand anything. Help! ============================================================================= 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. 1.3 What is a Classic Computer? _Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to work OK, so I've kept it. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw(a)u.washington.edu. 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get back to you eventually. 1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing anyway. 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? The daily load varies widely from about 10 messages to over 100. Average seems to be about 44 messages a day. There are times where the message load peaks for as much as a week. [][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What can I talk about? Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before posting. 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC newsgroups. 2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations? There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception". 2.4 Can I post advertisements? Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there are members of this list in a number of different countries. 2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to find yourself a computer. 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking out!" exactly means. 2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? Ahem. Er... I'm not going to go to the extent of banning this practise but it is considered bad manners. Don't whine to me because I used to be guilty of this and curbed myself ;). Post lists of newly acquired goods if you actually need info on them, not just to show off. 2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 How many subscribers are there? Around 180 and changing daily. 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? Check the web site (see below). The Classic Computer Encyclopedia shows the number of machines registered by subscribers. 3.3 Is this list archived? Yes. The archives are available on the FTP site (see below) in the directory /pub/classiccmp/archive. The file name format indicates the month/year of the archive. Keep in mind that they are quite large. [][][][][][][][][][] 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site? Yep. http://weber.u.washington.edu/bcw/ccl.html 4.2 How come the web site is so ugly? How come a PET is so ugly? Who cares as long as it works? 4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP site? Yes. Anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.27. Look in /pub/classiccmp. There's not much there that's not available on the web site. I'm starting to load old drivers and system disks on occasion. There is an incoming directory which subscribers may use for ClassicCmp-related file transfers if needed. [][][][][][][][][][] 5.1 Where can I find classic computers? The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets. These are closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores. The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be wary of individual pick-and-choosers. Oh yeah - garage sales! 5.2 How much is machine x worth? Precisely as much as you'll pay for it. Oh, you're selling it? Then, precisely as much as I'll pay for it. Seriously, no one prices these any more. I have an old Computer Blue Book that lists many classic computers but the prices are just ridiculous. Some machines (Apple Lisa's, old old Mini's, and unreleased prototypes) are starting down the road toward their original selling prices but it's unlikely that most will ever be worth more than the cost of their components. 5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? Yes. This is the impetus behind every collector's tireless and selfless effort. Each machine we fail to save has it's gold parts mercilessly hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and look at the rhinos). The remainder is then sent to China to be made into bicycle spokes (you probably think I'm joking). Save a computer! Act now! Remind your SO of the rhino and cuter, fuzzier animals. It might work. In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called "computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally just marketed to less wasteful countries. 5.4 I don't understand anything. Help! Don't worry - you're not the only one. Reading this list, old magazines, books and whatever else you can get your hands on is the first step. Once you reach a critical mass of knowledge thigs get a lot easier. I'm working on putting together a list of books and tools that a beginner should get his hands on. If you have suggestions, let me know. =============================================================================

22 years, 11 months

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2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb January 2002