test-drb September 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

160 participants
610 discussions

by edick＠idcomm.com

Back in the heyday of 8-bit micros I got involved with a couple of clients who thought the Intel 16-bit processors were pretty cool. Ultimately I was left with a bunch of software documentation and some software (copied, I suppose). Some of the software and documentation actually go together, so I though I'd make an initial offer to this group in case there's someone crazy enough to pursue this sort of stuff. I have lots ( close to 25 kg ) of manuals in the original blue Intel binders containing documents on various Intel development tools of the early 8086 era, including, I believe, Pascal, Assembler, various OS's (they were experimenting with several at the time) PL/M, among others. There's also a batch, obviously intended to go together, of 8" diskettes marked iAPX Source Code which has in it diskettes marked "CP/M to ISIS Translator" in CP/M SSSD format, RTCS UDI, PL/M-80, and LOTS of other iRMX stuff all in ISIS format (whatever that is) seemingly the source code for an entire development OS. Is anybody interested enough to want this stuff shipped to them at THEIR expense? That means I carry the stuff to the Mailboxes, Etc shop, get a quote on the packing and shipping cost, carry it back and, when your check clears, have it shipped to you. Dick Dick

25 years, 3 months

HP IC numbers was:Re: Britain is Great (Back from the Island)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Those 1820-xxxx numbers remind me of lots of HP boards I've looked at over the years. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 7:05 PM Subject: HP IC numbers was:Re: Britain is Great (Back from the Island) >Upon the date 07:12 PM 9/13/99 +0100, Tony Duell said something like: > >>> All but 3 parts have a numbering like 1820-0xxx, wher xxx is >> >>Almost all HP logic chips are 1820-xxxx :-). And these ones are not in my >>list of equivalents, which means they might well be custom (I would >>suspect a lot of them are, since there's nowhere near enough parts to >>make a calculator using MSI TTL here). > > -- snip -- > >Tony and others: > >I can't recall for sure but has someone posted anywhere a cross ref list >between HP house numbers and industry equivalent numbers? I thought there >was some discussion here a long time ago about this but I'm subscribed to >several other lists which could have had the same type of discussion. > >Thanks for any pointers folks! > >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/

25 years, 3 months

GOOD hamfest!

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I just returned from the Melbourne hamfest. I picked up a Osbourne Executive complete with all the disks and manuals from the original owner, a Heathkit Hero Robot and a HP 3468 meter with HP-IL interface. :-) Found out later that I missed a Lisa keyboard.

25 years, 3 months

TSR 80

by jcmitch＠fcc.net

I have a TSR 80 that is tape driven not disk driven. I also have a number of games for it. Is this worth anything. John C. Mitchell

25 years, 3 months

Reading TRS-80 discs (was RE: Archiving old discs...)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- morrison(a)t-iii.com wrote: > If the TRS-80 disks are DD you can usually read them OK, but SD needs some > other computer (Model I, III, 4, Coco etc.) Hmm... I've got an ancient ORIGINAL of Zork I (published by Personal Software) I've wanted to back this thing up for years so I can see which data file is on it, but I've never owned anything that can read it. Is it likely to be SD? What kind of non-period hardware can read this? If need be, I could even hook up a 5.25" disk to my Amiga and get funky with that. Thanks, -ethan === Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

25 years, 3 months

VW (was Re: Why is the Coleco Adam so popular?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Jacob Ritorto <jritorto(a)nut.net> wrote: > Road Trip in a Microbus? I'm game. I took my '63 to Spokane from > Pittsburgh a few years ago. Only used two engines. Ack! My beloved '76 is down; the (first) engine is in the basement undergoing a complete top-job (new heads, pistons, cylinders) after 2 owners and 125K miles > I've been meaning to > weld a pdp11/23 into the area where the refrigerator is supposed to go, > but haven't got a round tuit yet. It'd be neat to have a classic computer > survellence bus. I saved the A/C plastic enclosure that used to sit behind the heads in the fronts seats to put a computer up there someday. At the time, I was thinking about a C-64 due to low power requirements. If you powered the PDP-11 from some source other than the alternator, you might have a chance; I wouldn't want to put that kind of a load on the factory electrical system. What would you use for disk? Now... an 11/23 in a BA-23 w/ 1/2-height MFM, or better yet, 3.5" SCSI, might be doable. My 11/23's tend to have RL02's on them; not exactly road worthy. -ethan === Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

25 years, 3 months

Reading TRS-80 discs (was RE: Archiving old discs...)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>So, bottom line, if I find a floppy card that appears to conform to one of >the favorable ones on that list from comp.os.cpm, stick it in a PC and use >something like 22DISK, I should be able to make a physical backup of a TRS-80 >disk? Is there some other piece of software I should use? Unless Teledisk >will produce an uncompressed image, it won't help me. I can process the disk >images once I get them onto the hard drive, that's the easy part. The compression used inside Teledisk is very simplistic run-length-encoding. I once had a few hundred teledisk images to turn back into "regular" images, and banged out a quick little program to do the conversion in half an hour or so. If anyone's really interested, I'll forward a copy of the source. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

25 years, 3 months

Reading TRS-80 discs (was RE: Archiving old discs...)

by morrison＠t-iii.com

I did figure out the format, but I've long since forgotten it. But most any SU type program could read it. Neil Morrison email:morrison@t-iii.com > -----Original Message----- > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 12:45 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Reading TRS-80 discs (was RE: Archiving old discs...) > > > Hmm... I've got an ancient ORIGINAL of Zork I (published by Personal > Software) > > I've wanted to back this thing up for years so I can see which data file > is on > > it, but I've never owned anything that can read it. Is it likely to be > SD? > > What kind of non-period hardware can read this? If need be, I could > even > > hook up a 5.25" disk to my Amiga and get funky with that. > > > There was a TRS-80 model 1 Zork that meets this description -- I bought > it years ago. It was a single-density disk (The model 1 used a 1771 > controller that could only do single desnity), and it was formatted > strangely 'copy protect' it. It was also a self-booting disk with no > filesystem as such -- the Zork program just read the text (encrypted > IIRC) from raw sectors on the disk. > > Superutility on a TRS-80 could probably read/back up that disk, but I > don't know what else can. > > -tony

25 years, 3 months

Reading TRS-80 discs (was RE: Archiving old discs...)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

--- morrison(a)t-iii.com wrote: > If the TRS-80 disks are DD you can usually read them OK, but SD needs some > other computer (Model I, III, 4, Coco etc.) There has been extensive discussion on this topic on the comp.os.cpm newsgroup in the past several years. Here's some articles that detail which PC floppy disk controllers are capable of reading/writing single- density disks: Ken Ganshirt <ken.ganshirt(a)sk.sympatico.ca> wrote in article <36899CB0.19AD9093(a)sk.sympatico.ca>... > > I must have a pretty decent floppy controller, because I can even read > my original SS/SD Os-1 floppies, even though 22Disk warns that it might > not work for that format. (For the technically curious, this is on a > Dell 486/50 running Win 95 and the floppy drive is one of those deals > that has both a 3.5 and 5.25 in a single half-height drive. It's the > only system I have left with a 5.25" floppy drive.) > Ken, I recently did a study to find out what will and what won't do single density. Here are my findings so far: Will support single density / FM: NS PC87306 Super I/O SMC FDC37C65 SMC FDC37C78 Most SMC Super I/O chips Will NOT support single density / FM: NS 8473 NS PC87332* Super I/O NS PC97307* Super I/O WD FDC37C65 Most (if not all) Intel parts Any Winbond part Any UMC part Reportedly will do single density / FM but NOT verified: NS 8477 Intel 82077AA Goldstar Super I/O The NS PC87306 is found in a lot of Dell and Compaq machines from the 486-50Mhz models to the Pentium-90 models. Most Super Micro Pentium motherboards using the PCI HX chipset also used that super I/O. *NOTE: It is important to verify the part number on the chip itself. Many of these newer NS parts will identify themselves to software as PC87306, but do NOT support single density. Best regards, Amardeep Amardeep S. Chana (asc1000(a)ibm.net) wrote: : Ken Ganshirt <ken.ganshirt(a)sk.sympatico.ca> wrote in article : <36899CB0.19AD9093(a)sk.sympatico.ca>... : > : > I must have a pretty decent floppy controller, because I can even read : > my original SS/SD Os-1 floppies, even though 22Disk warns that it might : > not work for that format. (For the technically curious, this is on a : > Dell 486/50 running Win 95 and the floppy drive is one of those deals : > that has both a 3.5 and 5.25 in a single half-height drive. It's the : > only system I have left with a 5.25" floppy drive.) : > : Ken, : I recently did a study to find out what will and what won't do single : density. Here are my findings so far: Amardeep, I fear that I must question your study. I believe that you are ascribing to some of the chips the shortcomings of the FDC manufacturer. For example, both the NS 8473 and the WD 37C65 will most assuredly support FM. I have DTK FDC cards with the 8473 and read Osborne 1 disks with them just prior to writing this. Likewise, I have the WD 37C65 in the WD FOX card and it will also read/write FM. On that basis, I must have reservations about some of your other determinations. - don : Will support single density / FM: : NS PC87306 Super I/O : SMC FDC37C65 : SMC FDC37C78 : Most SMC Super I/O chips : Will NOT support single density / FM: : NS 8473 : NS PC87332* Super I/O : NS PC97307* Super I/O : WD FDC37C65 : Most (if not all) Intel parts : Any Winbond part : Any UMC part : Reportedly will do single density / FM but NOT verified: : NS 8477 : Intel 82077AA : Goldstar Super I/O : The NS PC87306 is found in a lot of Dell and Compaq machines from the : 486-50Mhz models to the Pentium-90 models. Most Super Micro Pentium : motherboards using the PCI HX chipset also used that super I/O. : *NOTE: It is important to verify the part number on the chip itself. Many : of these newer NS parts will identify themselves to software as PC87306, : but do NOT support single density. : Best regards, : Amardeep Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> wrote in article <915064276.933215(a)optional.cts.com>... [snip] > > Amardeep, I fear that I must question your study. I believe that you > are ascribing to some of the chips the shortcomings of the FDC > manufacturer. For example, both the NS 8473 and the WD 37C65 will > most assuredly support FM. I have DTK FDC cards with the 8473 and > read Osborne 1 disks with them just prior to writing this. Likewise, > I have the WD 37C65 in the WD FOX card and it will also read/write > FM. On that basis, I must have reservations about some of your other > determinations. > - don > Hi Don, I understand your reservations and can address every issue. I did not go into enough detail in the first posting to fully support my assertions. > : Will support single density / FM: > > : NS PC87306 Super I/O > : SMC FDC37C65 > : SMC FDC37C78 > : Most SMC Super I/O chips > The above parts are completely stand alone with on board filters, write precomp generators, and data separators. They should work with FM in any board implementation, unless something specific is done to prevent it (not likely). This is per the National and SMSC (new name for SMC semiconductor) data sheets. I have tested the NS PC87306 and SMC FDC37C65 using Jeff Vavasour's Model 4 emulator and Tim Mann's xtrs 2.8 under Linux. They both read and write FM with no problems. > : Will NOT support single density / FM: > > : NS 8473 > : NS PC87332* Super I/O > : NS PC97307* Super I/O > : WD FDC37C65 > : Most (if not all) Intel parts > : Any Winbond part > : Any UMC part > The 1988 data sheet for the NS 8473 states on page 8-32, "While the controller and data separator support both FM and MFM encoding, the filter switch circuitry only supports the IBM standard MFM data rates. To provide both FM and MFM filters external logic may be necessary." Every 8473 board I have tried failed to write FM. However, it may be possible to read FM on some boards if the external filters have a wide enough Q. The NS PC87332 & NS PC97307 are standalone and by design do not support FM (verified on the National data sheets). The only information I have on the WD FDC37C65 is the Always IN2000 card I have with that chip cannot read or write FM. I suspect it is also dependent on implementation. I have new information on Intel... Intel 8272 is a NEC 765 clone and therefore dependent on implementation . Intel 82077AA and 82077SL - data sheet clearly states these parts suppo rt FM. Thanks to Pete Cervasio for testing and reporting that the 82077 does indeed read and write FM. Intel 82078 - data sheet clearly states these parts will NOT support FM . I haven't yet investigated the new Intel Super I/O chip which is replacing the 82078. The Winbond and UMC chips have never worked on any adapter or motherboard I've ever encountered them on. No idea if its the chip or the implementation. > : Reportedly will do single density / FM but NOT verified: > > : NS 8477 > : Intel 82077AA > : Goldstar Super I/O > The NS 8477 data sheet indicates that it does support FM (it is functionally and pin for pin compatible with the Intel 82077). The Goldstar Super I/O was reported to work with FM in a newsgroup posting I read once but have never been able to confirm it. Hope that clarifies things :) Amardeep

25 years, 3 months

Reading TRS-80 discs (was RE: Archiving old discs...)

by morrison＠t-iii.com

The real problem was that the DD controller could only write two types of data marks, whereas the SD one could write four. Randy Cook chose the two the DD controller couldn't write for the Mod I SD O/S. Neil Morrison email:morrison@t-iii.com > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [SMTP:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 12:58 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Reading TRS-80 discs (was RE: Archiving old discs...) > > > FYI: trs80s used WD 1771 (mod-1) and later ones used the 1793. The 1771 > is SD only and the 1793 does both. There were 1793 adaptors for the > MOD-1. > > > Allison

25 years, 3 months

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test-drb September 1999