Today, having the day off, I went Surplus crawling, over to a
place I used to work at in the late 70's. It has shrunk from those
wonderful days, but a lot of Stuff remains nonetheless.
I found a Teletype 33ASR with a full roll of paper tape left in it,
and a Wilson Labs MWX-1000 SMD disk tester/execiser. I had to pay
more than I thought the Wilson box was worth, because it 'looks cool'
and they thought it would make a nice movie prop... which I guess it
would. *I*, on the other hand, think it would make an even nicer SMD
disk tester, so I rescued it. Aside from some bits and pieces, I saw
nothing worth taking home, save for a DEC Punch/Reader in a rack that
got smashed, wedging the unit so I couldn't get to it, though it
looked to be in good shape other than the rack rails being bent. I
know where it is, if someone is looking for one, I could go back and
pry it out of it's nest.
Now to blow the warehouse dust out of the Teletype and get it
working...
Cheers
John
<I'm wondering: was the IBM PC the first machine with PSU in the rear
<right, drives in the front right, motherboard in rear left, or did they
<borrow this design from someone else?
I don't think it was borrowed as much as there are few choices when
you put most of the meat on one card. Packaging hardware is an
older art than the PC.
Personally it was a horrid layout with poor airflow for cooling.
Allison
Anyone know where to find keyboard repair parts for old 8-bit machines?
Any good mail-order stores?
Anyone remember the makers of the keyboards, switches, and/or key caps and
color names?
(I remember that Cherry made the TRS-80s keyboards.)
----------------------------------------
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Those perforations which many people ended up using for an additional
speaker were actually intended as a feeble attempt at encouraging airflow
through the vertically mounted cards. Those, if you remember, were
full-length back in those days, and because of that fact would have
benefitted had there actually been enough pressure difference between
outside and inside to cause the air to flow substantially.
IBM had people who were really worried about noise, hence wouldn't put a
meaningful fan in the box. That little thing in the PSU (which dies more
often than any other single component in any PC) won't move enough air to
cool things much. It will move enough air to load everything in the box
with dust, though.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: PC form factor
>> Ah, yes, the airflow issue again. What would you change to improve
>> airflow?
>
>As Richard said filtered air in the intake, board mounted vertical,
>orientation of plug in boards in line with primary airflow.
>
>Allison
>
Hello Tony:
In a message dated 7/1/99 5:07:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes:
> Admission time... I have quite a collection of home computers as well,
Ha! I _knew_ it!! ;>)
>> Why do the Brits hate the BBC Micro?
> No idea. In fact I didn't know we did
Must just be the ZX Brits I usually hang around with . . .
> Hmm... Unix came out first on a PDP7, but later versions ran on the
> PDP11. I am not sure where C came in all this, but there are certainly
> PDP11 versions.
> I've never heard of either fitting on a PDP8.
See -- I told you I was ignorant of these machines . . .
> BTW, you can get a license from SCO for the old PDP11 unices (source code
> :-)) for $100 for home use only.
Nice to know they're still available. $100 seems fair.
Anyway, thanks for all the great information re large computers. For years
I've read about them and used code which was developed on them, but I've
never seen or touched one.
Any tips on where to stumble onto some of this gear, other than just hanging
around universities, waiting for them to throw something out?
Regards,
Glen Goodwin
0/0
Since most folks are right-handed, having the drives on the right is pretty
reasonable. The physical design was allegedly patterened after the
pple-][ whose market IBM coveted. The concept of easily installable
expansion cards on an open bus with I/O connectors in the rear did evolve
there, though not in Apple's products. Several companies saw the light and
put connectors on the back of their Apple computers using a separate
bracket. IBM saw the problem that caused once your computer got rather
full, since each card so equipped would require, essentially, two slots.
The Apple-][ had its supply on the left and had no internal drives. I don't
remember whether the Apple III had internal drives.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 8:10 PM
Subject: PC form factor
>Hi,
>I'm wondering: was the IBM PC the first machine with PSU in the rear
>right, drives in the front right, motherboard in rear left, or did they
>borrow this design from someone else?
>
>--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)
> http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is
Power
>
I agree with this one! There's no need for a "starter-outer" regardless of
his/her current station in life to go after an Imsai or (much worse) an
ALTAIR, when those machines weren't that well designed and weren't that well
supported. If one wants to start out with an S-100, he should get hold of a
widely used, common and therefore likely to be inexpensive, mainframe, or at
least backplane, then do the same for known-to-be-compatible memory, CPU,
and controller cards, a power supply, and a terminal or PC with a working
terminal program and a couple of 8" floppy disk drives.
Unfortunately, the presence of the PC with its virtually plug-and-play
(chuckle) readily available boards and the MAC with it's even less difficult
to set up peripherals, have led the world to believe that devices should
just naturally play together.
Anyone who's worked with DEC equipment knows that isn't true. Once upon a
time, I worked for a DEC-addicted client whose system required redundant
PDP11-44's. The DEC folks would deliver the hardware on one day, set up the
first rack the second day, get the basic hardware to run on the third, and
then one or two days at a time, get the rest to work together. Then there
was the second rack . . .
Now, even though the two machines had been specifically ordered to be
"identical in every way" at a considerable premium, it was not unusual for
the DEC folks to have to swap each rack in its entirety several times before
they actually had two from which you could extract a board and exchange it
with the corresponding board in the other and not have both machines fall
apart. Usually, while this was happening, the other 30 or so of us were in
day-for-day schedule slip.
On the S-100 bus, there were lots of board which worked just fine together.
Unfortunately, there were others which did not. The earlier the vintage,
the less likely that they'd be particularly interoperable with other
manufacturers' equipment. This applied as much to backplanes and serial
port boards as to CPU's, memory and FDC's. If a beginner has a few fairly
widely used boards, it's likely he can get some help from the guys on this
list or from the fellows in the CP/M newsgroup. If he has an Altair, that
number is greatly reduced.
Nonetheless, if a fellow has an Altair, that's normally the one he wants to
get running, irrespective of the associated problems. Suggestions abound,
of course, but solid help from experienced users is scarce because there
weren't many.
What I want to know is why a beginner would want to run old hardware if he
doesn't know anything about hardware in general and the general class of
hardware with which he's dealing in particular. I can understand it if he
used the stuff when he was a pup, or if his father had one. What I read
here, however, is mostly stuff from people who have gotten a few pieces of
gear for next to no money and expect that since they've got the "big" bits
they won't need to spend much more. Unfortunately, that's seldom the case.
I read lots of prose from people who've got lots of pieces of lots of
systems but haven't a clue what, exactly, is necessary in order to make any
of the stuff "do something."
Why do you suppose this is?
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: State of the Hobby
>> OKay, $500 or $1000 is alot less than the $4k+ these things
>> cost when they were new, but $500 is *still* alot of money for
>> most people, certainly for one who's just starting out.
>
>It may be alot for someone starting out, sure, but then someone starting
>out might not want to go for the cream. That might be aiming just a bit
>too high.
>
>> As I said, that's still alot of money. The cool thing about this
>> hobby was that you didn't need alot to get cool stuff. That's
>> starting to change.
>
>For starting? No. Despite all of the talk about the $510 Mac, there are
>bushels of machines that are in the under $50 category - some pretty darn
>nice ones, too. This seems to be like the press reporting about
>multi-million dollar personal injury lawsuits - they really are rarer
>than hens teeth, but the newspeople make it sound like it happens all of
>the time. There will always be very affordable classic computers - only
>the creme will go ballistic.
>
>William Donzelli
>aw288(a)osfn.org
Hi,
>> P.S.: If you continue, I might be interested in getting a PERQ :)
>
>You should be. It's an interesting machine. Just be warned that
>microcoding is addictive...
You've certainly piqued my interest.... :-)
TTFN - Pete.
--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)
peter.pachla(a)virgin.net |
peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk |
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk
--
In a message dated 7/2/99 8:07:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, arfonrg(a)texas.net
writes:
>
> Anyone know where to find keyboard repair parts for old 8-bit machines?
> Any good mail-order stores?
>
I have some old keyboards. What are you looking for?
Paxton
--
Eric Stechmann Direct: +1 (651) 234-1217
Software Critter Fax: +1 (651) 490-1484
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The program said "Requires Windows 9* or better" so I bought a
Macintosh.
