>
> Well, automobile collecting is definitely a rich-man's hobby; which
> sure leaves me out. I just find it painful to see our hobby go
> the same way.
>
> Jeff
Wrong... Just like computers, there are certain cars that are more
desirable than others. You wanna collect cars? There's half a dozen parked
in my neighorhood that you can get for free. OH.. That's no good enough,
you want the 55 T-Bird and you expect to get it for nothing.
You wanna collect computers? The thrift stores are full of 386s and 486s
that you can get for next to nothing! Truck loads of em go in the landfill
every single day. Nooooo... You wanna collect fancy computers with blinken
lights and all kinda of cool stuff that noone else has and you expect to
get it for nothing.
Get over it!
As a fairly new collector, I gotta say, you guys are spoiled. No-one ever
gave me an ALTAIR and I still love the hobby.
Sorry about the rant but, this argument is getting REALLY old.
You wanna flame me, do it off line. I'm sure most of the other members are
tired of hearing it too.
Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
Hi william:
In a message dated 7/2/99 11:25:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, aw288(a)osfn.org
writes:
> As one who has spend quite a bit of time in industrial environments, I
> would say that MIS department was a bunch of Bozos for not getting
> industrial machines. Basically ANY floppy that spends its life at a
> loading dock is going to die very quickly, followed in short order by the
> power supply and keyboard.
Bozos, to say the least. But do you think that a bunch of mainframe guys in
1988 would listen to a lowly PC person? Besides, the IBM guys told them the
PCs would be okay, and they had already spent $20 per unit on those plastic
prophylactic keyboard skins . . . ;>) After IBM replaced the drives with
units which had the flap, they only croaked once a year instead of every
three months . . . and always in the middle of reading disk three of a five
disk software upgrade which I had sent them . .
My most entertaining project ever.
Regards,
Glen Goodwin
0/0
In a message dated 7/2/99 6:47:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes:
> Actually, a Williamson is a single-channel amplifier
Man, I've _got_ to stop posting messages in the middle of the night, when I'm
half asleep (as I am now ;>)
A lot of Taiwanese jive, is what it boils down to. After playing around with
a pair of "200W" speakers today, I'd estimate about 2.5W RMS per channel.
> I don't own any such speakers, or indeed, a soundcard. Never seen the need
for > > one...
Me neither, except that I use the soundcard to transfer programs to cassette
for use on my Timex/Sinclairs.
> What I am asking for is _any_ kind of justification for the modern kind
> of watt...
The modern watts sell speakers. Our customers like to hear "big numbers,"
and don't have a clue as to what those numbers mean or how to verify them,
whether it's in reference to watts, MHz, bps, RAM, cache, or disk storage.
The box says 200 watts, and people like the look of them.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it ;>)
Regards,
Glen Goodwin
0/0
On Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:50:16 +0100 (BST) ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony
Duell) writes:
>Please remember that this list is international. And that not all of
>us have well payed jobs, or even jobs at all. I couldn't consider
>spending twice my _annual_ income on an Altair. Heck, I have to stop
>and think before I spend my weekly income on common 8-bit micro.
It won't belong before this condition will exist in the States as well.
>> > IN the hobby I knew, money was only a very small part of the
>> > equation. Used to be, all I needed was a few dollars, some basic
>> > tools, and a little luck. Now I need *deep* pockets, too. I'm
>> > upset that the 'elite' is putting my favorite passtime out of my
reach.
>
>I think what a lot of us are saying is :
>
>At one time classic computers were cheap. Anyone could buy them _and_
>they weren't worth buying as an 'investment'. The only reason to buy
>them was because you were seriously interested in the machines.
Thank You. I *knew* there had to someone out there who actually
understood my point. It dosen't surprise me it was someone outside
the US.
>> Its not the "elite" that have something about cornering the computer
>> collectable field - it happens to ALL collectable fields. I have
>> seen it happen in two related instances.
>
>As I have said before, Valve radio/audio was ruined for me when I
>could no longer get an old set for a few _pence_ at a jumble sale.
The same fate awaits many of us here in the Classic Computing
community. Since many of you seem convinced that there is nothing
that can be done, I shall publicly discuss this issue no further.
Jeff
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Do these exist, and if so, where can I get a copy (buy or xerox)?
--
joe comunale /url> www.qc.edu/~hn8qc
Queens College/OIT /off> 718-997-5919
unix/asst Sys Mgr /fax> 718-997-5678
<What we need is the "Open Hardware" movement. What is Open Hardware? It is
<a set of specifications for a computer and an interface system that anyone
<can build processors, I/O, or accessories for without owing any taxes to
<anyone.
Or an older SS50, s100, Multibus, STDbus, Qbus, unibus, Omnibus, eurobus...
system.
<
<However, ideally, this "open architecture" needs a bit of software already
<available for it to get the movement off the ground. I suggest that the
<PDP-11 could be that architecture for several reasons:
< 1) It has lots of software available for it.
< 2) It can be expressed in a single modern FPGA so processors
< can be "home built"
< 3) It has some pretty easy to use busses defined for it (Q-Bus,
Unibus)
Why roll your own when there are plenty of them cheap to free. Special
hardware could be handy like a good IDEinterface or a really cheap SCSI.
<Alternatively one could go with something like SPARC (which Sun alleges is
<open but I have my doubts)
Too highend.
Allison
Q: Name the one thing that Classic Computers have that modern computers lack?
A: Adequate documentation to write your own system level software on them!
What we need is the "Open Hardware" movement. What is Open Hardware? It is
a set of specifications for a computer and an interface system that anyone
can build processors, I/O, or accessories for without owing any taxes to
anyone.
However, ideally, this "open architecture" needs a bit of software already
available for it to get the movement off the ground. I suggest that the
PDP-11 could be that architecture for several reasons:
1) It has lots of software available for it.
2) It can be expressed in a single modern FPGA so processors
can be "home built"
3) It has some pretty easy to use busses defined for it (Q-Bus, Unibus)
Alternatively one could go with something like SPARC (which Sun alleges is
open but I have my doubts)
Comments?
--Chuck
<>As Richard said filtered air in the intake, board mounted vertical,
<>orientation of plug in boards in line with primary airflow.
<
<That makes sense, except for the board mounted vertical. Why that?
If the fan fails convection flow is helpful. Actually vertical with
airflow from bottom to top works well.
Allison
Anybody interested in these, please respond to him directly.
Mike
>Subject: Dec DELNI, and doc's
>From: John Isenhour <isenhour(a)uiuc.edu>
>Date: Fri, 02 July 1999 09:50 AM EDT
>I have a DEC DELNI that I no longer need, if this is something you could
>use make an offer.
>Also new set of VMS manuals (not the grey wall but the newer one's that
>fit it a box - I'll have to look at version) free to good home for
>shipping.
A couple of people mentioned the SS50 bus, but they should
have also mentioned the SS30 bus because they go together.
Other well known micro buses not mentioned would include
the TRS-80 Model 1 expansion bus and the 50 pin Sorcerer
S-100 expansion bus.
Some of these micro buses also have different versions. The
S-100 bus was used (and IMHO abused :) for about 7 years before
it was locked down to a standard. There is an extended Benton
Harbor Bus which is easily identified as a double row of pins,
instead a single row of pins.
--Doug
====================================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work)
Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home)
Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Analog Computer Museum and History Center
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog
====================================================
