test-drb April 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

170 participants
1190 discussions

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Upon the date 02:17 PM 4/24/99 +1000, Karl Maftoum said something like: > >Latest finds: > >Picked up a nice Motorola MVME chassis + cards (68000), the system works >are runs OS-9, still playing with it :-) Anyone got any info on this >system? Well, for starters tell us what the module designations are (such as MVME122, MVME204-1, MVME400, etc., etc.). The crate may also be marked with something like MVME945 or ? I'm most familiar with Moto's products. What version OS-9? > >Also 2x Sun3/50's and monitors. > >Not bad for mornings drive :-) Wish I could simply drive around in the morning and pickup stuff like this :-) Good haul! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa

25 years, 8 months

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the 80s

by edick＠idcomm.com

The Apple-][ most certainly did come with built-in Video. That's just about all that was built-in. BTW, I just gave away one which had an APPLE brand monitor with it. I bought seven of these at one time, because they did something I didn't want to have to reinvent, but though the video monitor came with it, the Apple video is not the monitor, it's the refresh memory and the video control and timing logic to support it. Of course I've still got one with only a single drive, + multiple controllers each capable of either two or four drives, and a bunch of other cards, etc. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 10:01 PM Subject: Re: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the 80s >> The Apple ][ would qualify, it came with built-in video. > >The Apple ][ did not come with a built-in monitor; a monitor was not even >available from the manufacturer. > >The PDP-8/e with VT8-E that I mentioned earlier was shipped by DEC with the >VT8-E installed, and DEC provided a monitor. > >You are making distinctions even more arbitrary (IMHO) than most of the >"first PC" arguments. It seems like you are picking your criteria in order >to get an answer you've already selected.

25 years, 8 months

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well Hans, there's this saying, a derogatory one directed at California, but not totally without foundation that "Whenever there's a tremor, all the loose nuts roll to California." Dick -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 8:42 AM Subject: Re: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s >> > The previous comment should have made it obvious it was NOT within the reach <snip> >> > hadn't yet learned to run to California. > >> Whatever. > >Must be true, Now I'm able to run for California >(and I'll do it again for VCF3.0 :). > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ >Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ >Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK

25 years, 8 months

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s

by edick＠idcomm.com

No, Sam, those were not necessarily MY attitudes. I, after all, was only 6 years old during most of 1952. However, I'd submit that my statement is more or less correct, inasmuch as most Americans had no idea what a digital computer was in 1952. My grandfather worked for one of New York's large banks back then, and HE was a computer. He spent his time at work with those VERY tall multiple-entry ledgers you see in the old-time movies, adding up the columns in his head and recording the sum in india ink just as people had done it a century before. That was about 50x as quick and generally as accurate as the at that time not so common mechanical calculators which some time later filled accounting departments throughout the world. Guys like my grandpa didn't cost as much as ENIAC, or BISMAC, or whatever was the model of the day, and they got the work done. That's what the average American thought of when you asked him about a computer, though most didn't really even recognize the word. In 1954-55 a friend of my parents bought an airplane for $300. He also liked those British sports cars, which traded, 2nd-hand for about $300 in the late '50's, though they were not that "reasonable" by the time I wanted one (goodness only knows why I wanted it). Back to the attitudes . . . I certainly hope that you don't purport YOUR attitudes to be typical. I know mine aren't. What brings balance to a discussion is the presentation of perceptions. Two people can sit in the same room observing the same event and, afterward, discuss their recollection as though they were in different places. In this case, you're presuming to know what was the case in an era you could only have experienced semantically, while I experienced it "really" though through the perceptions of a child. I had the exposure to some of the same semantic influences as you, however, and I was able to integrate that with my recollections of those days to put things together in my mind, just as you do when thinking back to the '70's. That doesn't make ME right and YOU wrong, but it doesn't make YOU right and ME wrong either. You see, the larger discussion isn't about YOU or ME. One other point . . . I don't know how you can claim to know about what's on the mind of an "average" American. People who, ten years ago, were rabidly interested in computers, whether in work or in play, were not considered "average" in any sense. I'd say that the only way to get a reasonable "feel" for what an "average" person thinks must come from somewhere outside your circle of associates and mine. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 11:29 PM Subject: Re: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s >On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> The previous comment should have made it obvious it was NOT within the reach <snip> >> enough to spend your money on have changed considerably. > >Don't you mean YOUR attitudes, Richard? Get this through your thick >skull: YOU do NOT represent the mass thought process of humans. Time and >again you insist on applying your OWN personal values and opinions upon >the rest of the world when you make an assertion, and fail to realize >there are 6 billion people out there with ideas differing from your own. > >> $300 was not an expenditure an "average" American would consider lightly in >> 1952. That was the year I came to this country. There was an election >> between Adlai E. Stevenson (Democrat) and Dwight D. Eisenhower (Republican). >> It was BEFORE the first test of a hydrogen bomb. > >Sure, but the point is that it could CONCEIVABLY have been afforded by >anyone who wished to save their money for 6 months so they could collect >the parts together to build one. Just because YOU would not have chosen >to build one does not mean everyone else in the world would have made that >same choice. Everyone on the planet does not share your values, contrary >to your belief and opinion. > >I know if I were alive back then, and I had the same excitement for >computers that I do today, and an opportunity to build my own computer >came up for 1/10th of my yearly salary, I sure as hell would have saved >the money to build one. > >1/10th of the average American's yearly salary is about $3,000 these days >(thereabouts) and I know plenty of people who would save up that amount to >buy a righteous computer with all the trimmings in our time. So $300 out >of a $3,600 yearly salary (or whatever) back then is not only possible but >very do-able. > >> People weren't crazy then as they are now . . . and all the loose nuts >> hadn't yet learned to run to California. > >Whatever. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 04/03/99] >

25 years, 8 months

Rabble Rousing (was: The "FIRST PC")

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

At 06:41 PM 4/22/99 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, James Willing wrote: >> On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Hans Franke wrote: >> >> > > A PROPOSAL: (for VCF III) >> > >> > <more snipppp> >> > >> > Maybe we should fix that only systems within the 10 year rule can be classified. >> >> Dang! I knew I was forgetting something! >> >> 6) In order to be eligible, the unit must have entered production (or >> in the case of a construction article based unit, been published) prior to >> the introduction of the IBM "PC". (198?... dang, brain fade!) > >1981. August to be exact.... > >Anyway, hold your pants on! The rules for the exhibit are coming soon! Ok... I'll defer to "he that runs the thing"... B^} So, do you have a mark-sense reader? Or should I still plan to bring mine? (never quite ready to give up!) B^} -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

25 years, 8 months

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were t

by edick＠idcomm.com

What I do remember, and quite clearly, is that the job I held in summer of '61 there was a sign right next to the washroom saying that the federal minimum wage, of wich there was none in 1952, was 65 cents per hour. In the early '50's people were saving up their bucks for a TV set, because not everybody had one yet. That was much different four or five years later, but for the first couple of years of the Eisenhower administration, things were rather poor, due to the compounded post-war recession. We came to the US in February of '52, and my father had a job engraving plates for bank notes, at which he was considered VERY well paid at $1.25 per hour. He left that job, to everyone's surprise to take a job in Oklahoma City for $1.35 an hour. I don't know what my mother earned as a secretary. Since people were just catching on to TV, if there was a station within range, I doubt anyone really wanted a computer. As I wrote yesterday, when someone said computer, I thought they were talking about my grandfather who held that title at one of the big New York banks. I was just a kid, but still, if computers had caught on the way they did some five to eight years later, people would have known about it and the things might actually have interested someone. Without the games, I doubt more than a hundred were built for personal use or amazement. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Walker <lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 8:48 PM Subject: Re: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were t On 22 Apr 99 at 20:02, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I suspect that few of the readers of this list remember the early '50's as I > do. I wasn't trying to compare or contrast the prices of the antique > computers which were under discussion, but rather point out that few people > would put out a month's pay (gross) for a personal computer, even today. In > the early '50's there were more people, including some professionals, with > less than $300 after taxes (and they were MUCH lower then) than there were > people earning more. There wasn't yet a minimum wage of $1.00 per hour, > and, in fact, when I had a minimum wage job in '60, I earned <$5.00 per > 8-hour day. Naturally a $300 computer wasn't on my list of things to buy. > > Dick > I think you're understating wages a bit in the early 50s . I remember getting $125 for a 55 hr week working as a construction laborer on a summer job in 52, and getting $1.75 an hour as a derrickman in the admittedly highpaying oil-patch in 53. On the other hand I worked as a jr. IBM operator in 55 starting at $35 a week. Office jobs unless you were in management were notoriously underpaid. I was paying $18 a week for rent. At this time the Can $ was equivalent or more than the US$ . I took out a loan from the credit union in order to buy a $125 trumpet. So otherwise your reference to the high price of "hobby " computers is valid. Of course the larger computers (data processors) could only be leased, not bought from companies like IBM and Univac, so even the concept of "owning" a computer would be somewhat ludicrous unless you were an academic with a liberal budget. ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c(a)xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C

25 years, 8 months

PDP11 Info Posted

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

I just scanned the PDP11/23 and 11/34 pocket guides and posted them in GIF format at ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/pdp1134 and ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/pdp1124 In ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/ you will also find the TD systems Viking user and technical manuals that I OCR'd but the OCR did not do a good job of keeping the tables lined up. There are a few GIF's of those important pages. There is a UDT and a QDT jpg of the boards also. These boards have been very commonly rebadged with other companies names on them. They are Qbuss and Unibuss SCSI disk / tape controllers. Mixed in are UC0* files (GIF's) that are the important pages from the Emulex UC07/08 Qbus SCSI manual to set them up also. Zane hopefully will sort them into their own directories and post the new directory info. Dan

25 years, 8 months

More new toys

by karlm＠blitzen.canberra.edu.au

Latest finds: Picked up a nice Motorola MVME chassis + cards (68000), the system works are runs OS-9, still playing with it :-) Anyone got any info on this system? Also 2x Sun3/50's and monitors. Not bad for mornings drive :-) Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum(a)student.canberra.edu.au

25 years, 8 months

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s

by edick＠idcomm.com

You know, there must have been another company using the Digital name that put on those pitches my colleagues and I had to attend, which was not publicly traded, because that was part of the same spiel, i.e. "that's why we're not public . . ." I'm sure I didn't dream that, because my boss was usually present and I didn't really like what I was hearing. Is this possible? I don't believe a public corporation can have non-public subsidiaries. Can it? Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 7:07 AM Subject: Re: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s > >> > They (DEC) wouldn't sell >> > directly to the government because that required they let government >> > auditors look at their books. There was too much risk that the word would >> > leak out that their profit margins on their mini's were pretty generous. >> > That would have led to competition, which they really never enjoyed. >> > >> > >> > Dick >> >> >> This is unadulterated #@$&*() bull. >> And revisionist history with an agenda sucks. >> >> I take serious offence to this. DEC sold directly to the government. >> They (the gov't) was their second largest customer when I was there >> (behind the good old AT&T Ma Bell folks). I was a dedicated Field >> service type at Fort Monmouth. I also did time as a government >> contractor on projects. >> >> What are you basing this opinion on. >> >> Bill > >First DEC was a public corperation... if you know anthing that counters >your claim. > >Now so happens my other half was a manager of the corperate and government >billing unit. I KNOW what the discloseures were! If anything IBM had a >presence for a long time so the govenment was for the most part locked in. > >Offensive is the least I can say about that statement. > >Allison >(formerly Senior Engineer, CSSE Printing Systems (DEC MLO, PKO, LKG, DSG, >OGO) >

25 years, 8 months

Vintage Computer Festival Announcement!

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Pack your bags! The third annual Vintage Computer Festival has been set for October 2nd and 3rd at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, California. More information to come shortly. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99]

25 years, 8 months

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test-drb April 1999