test-drb April 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

170 participants
1190 discussions

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

how bad do you need it? IBM still stocks it. www.direct.ibm.com/ In a message dated 4/25/99 7:22:21 AM US Eastern Standard Time, gene(a)ehrich.com writes: > Does anybody have one or know where I can get one? > > gene@ehrich > http://www.voicenet.com/~generic > Computer & Video Game Garage Sale

25 years, 8 months

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s id AA20656; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:48:08 -0400

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<On other point: Do you have any idea how many computers there were in <1952? Or their cost? I do, do they? I think a number totaling under 20 would be about right. the volume of computers were about to increase around '52 but the next production step was the transistor machines. Allison

25 years, 8 months

z80 timing... 6502 timing

by edick＠idcomm.com

I suppose that's true, Hans, BUT, in1982, there were few other processors than the 6502 and Z-80 in popular use, with the exception of the 8080A and the 8085, of course. The majority of home computers, though, used one of these two, at that time. Several years later, we found the 6510 and 6809 in commercially interesting applications, but not for as long a period as the Z-80 and 6502. These two had a life of nearly ten years before the IBM-PC and its clones wrenched the home computer market from their grasp. My last, albeit not "commercial" application was designed with a pair of 65C02's (just under 5MHz) and a pair of 8751's in '86. The 6502 and Z-80 made their appearance in '76, as I recall, though there may have been a few out in '75. The big 6502 rollout was in '76, though. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:32 AM Subject: Re: z80 timing... 6502 timing >> While your comments are valid observations, I submit, however, that we're >> coming at this from two different viewpoints. I wish to address the >> question "Which processor is faster, 6502 or Z-80?" while you want a general >> comparison of processors. Unfortunately, answering one question doesn't >> address the other. > >The 6502 vs. Z80 is only a subplot in the all CPU question - so >if the measurement does fit the general question it also fits >the specific. In fact, if we go for the general thing, the rules >will be much more aprobiate then when we only focuse on two >examples. > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ >Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ >Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK

25 years, 8 months

Building Core, Stage 2

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Ok, I'm getting to the point where I can _almost_ start taking pictures of the waveforms on the oscilloscope. Now, if you are wondering, this does have a point. I've got a 4K core stack for a PDP-8 that I've been loath to get into because I didn't feel I had a strong enough understanding of the basics in order to figure out just what the heck was wrong with it, once this project is complete and I understand core memory, theory and operation, I'll be ready to tackle fixing that stack. I've been reading and re-reading the theory section in the PDP-8a manual and some parts are starting to seep into my consciousness. This is where we are at. 1) I'm using copper clad board to provide a ground plane "under" the core. After my last message it became obvious that this was the other half of the winding "through" the core. 2) I'm using "magnet" wire (enameled copper wire) for the core wire. I'm guessing it can take a couple of amps for a short period of time. I'm not sure that is sufficent to "switch" the #2 nut I'm using but we'll see. 3) Allison referenced a waveform that looked like this: +--+ | | | | ----------+ +-------------+ +--------- Gnd | | | | +--+ Now in the ToO section in the manual it was written that the first pulse "reads" the core, and the second pulse "writes" the core. A light bulb went on because of course core is "destructively" read, and has to be rewritten. 4) The diagram in the 8a manual shows the sense wires going through one set of cores, looping and coming back through another set. The sense wire is also used as the 'inhibit' wire when one wants to write a zero. This is done by reversing the X or Y current so that the selected cores don't get full write current (and thus don't switch.) 5) So this is the plan: put three wires through the nut and wire them up as follows: -- 1/h select ----------\ | | /----- GND 1/h select ---------------| |-------------- GND sense + ----------/ | | \----- sense - The scope will display the current on the select lines on channel 1 the sense lines on channel 2 (floating ground) 6) When the current is sufficient, I should see a pulse on the sense line. (This is the hypothesis part, now to apply the scientific method) We'll see ... if there are obvious errors in the above please let me know! --Chuck --

25 years, 8 months

Saving BIG OLD Iron...

by mbg＠world.std.com

The first part of the effort has been a success... we had about 8 people show up today to load the KS10 systems and their disks and tapes (and printers, and some terminals, and documentation and printsets) into two trucks... one going up to New Hampshire and one going down to Rhode Island. It turns out that we were unable to lock down the head carriages on the RP06 drives, and I know we're taking a little risk because of it, but we did not have the procedure available in the manuals we referred to. What little we did find led us to believe that there were parts required (removed at the time of installation) which the site no longer had... Anyway, it all got loaded. Tomorrow some of use will unload the truck which went to Rhode Island... One of the things I found out about the systems is that they were apparently the last set of decsystem-10s in active commercial in the new england region. One of the machines is an ADP onsite machine. It has a modified front panel which can apparently display the number of local and remote users, the %utilization of the machine, and two other displays which can be selected as to what they display. It is an LCD display which appears to have been cracked at some point, so it may take some work to make it work again. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ p.s. Anyone have any information on the ADP onsite modifications which might have been standard?

25 years, 8 months

Chrislin Industries

by mbg＠world.std.com

>My question is if I stuck the RQDX3 in slot 4 would it work? If I found a >copy of RSX-11M could I boot it on this system (128KB of memory) how >about RT-11? Do I need the BDV11 if I have the RQDX3 ? The RQDX3 is only the controller, it doesn't have any boot code on it. If your BDV has the boot code for an MSCP disk, then it should just work. If not, you'll need to get some... One point, the RQDX3 was not supported until V5.3 of RT-11. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

25 years, 8 months

Chrislin Industries

by edick＠idcomm.com

Have you visited www.chrislin.com ? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, April 24, 1999 6:30 PM Subject: Chrislin Industries >I've got disk box, 19" rack mount, that is labelled Chrislin Industries. >Inside is an SA612 hard disk labelled DL0: on the front, and two 8" >floppies (NEC floppies) labelled DY0: and DY1: on the left. (horizontal >mount). Inside the box is a PC board that takes a 50pin connector (labelled >"Controller") and has connectors labelled WINC0, WINC1, 5" FLOPPY, 8" >FLOPPY, and WINCHESTER. > >This is the zillion dollar question, it looks as if this box could be >plugged into an RQDX3 and emulate two RX02 and an RLxx. Or, it could plug >into some CI controller that did its own emulation. > >My "Microcomputers and Memory" handbooks lists on the back the following >boards for an 11/23 in a BA11-N >#0 KDF11-AA >#1 MSV11-DD >#2 MSV11-DD >#3 DLV11-J >#4 spare >#5 spare >#6 spare >#7 spare >#8 BDV11-AA > >My question is if I stuck the RQDX3 in slot 4 would it work? If I found a >copy of RSX-11M could I boot it on this system (128KB of memory) how about >RT-11? Do I need the BDV11 if I have the RQDX3 ? > >--Chuck >

25 years, 8 months

Chrislin Industries

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I've got disk box, 19" rack mount, that is labelled Chrislin Industries. >Inside is an SA612 hard disk labelled DL0: on the front, and two 8" >floppies (NEC floppies) labelled DY0: and DY1: on the left. (horizontal >mount). Inside the box is a PC board that takes a 50pin connector (labelled >"Controller") and has connectors labelled WINC0, WINC1, 5" FLOPPY, 8" >FLOPPY, and WINCHESTER. This is a box that works with a Chrislin Industries Q-bus controller. >This is the zillion dollar question, it looks as if this box could be >plugged into an RQDX3 and emulate two RX02 and an RLxx. Nope. > Or, it could plug >into some CI controller that did its own emulation. Yep, the Chrislin controller does RX02 emulation and RL02 emulation. Most also had a small bipolar boot ROM on it. >My "Microcomputers and Memory" handbooks lists on the back the following >boards for an 11/23 in a BA11-N >#0 KDF11-AA >#1 MSV11-DD >#2 MSV11-DD >#3 DLV11-J >#4 spare >#5 spare >#6 spare >#7 spare >#8 BDV11-AA > >My question is if I stuck the RQDX3 in slot 4 would it work? The RQDX3 will work, but it won't talk to your Chrislin industries box. There's a 50-pin to 34-and-20-pin breakout board you need to hook floppy drives and MFM drives to a RQDX3. In a BA23, the breakout board resided in between the card cage and the drive bays; in a BA123 there was a breakout board, with a Q-bus form factor, that plugged into the "dummy" Q-bus slots at the front of the backplane; in a BA11N-type box, the breakout usually resided in the Leprechaun box that holds the MFM or floppy drive. > If I found a >copy of RSX-11M could I boot it on this system (128KB of memory) Sure. You need the drive, of course... and installing RSX from floppy is just plain cruel (about as convenient as the Wagner Ring Cycle on 45's...) > how about >RT-11? Sure, again you need media and matching drive.... > Do I need the BDV11 if I have the RQDX3 ? No. The official rules for when you need a terminator in a box and when you don't need one are in Micronote #29, "Q-bus Expansion Concepts", available from http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/microno… Keep in mind that you won't have a MSCP bootstrap in this system, meaning you'll have to use console ODT to put the MSCP bootstrap in for each cold boot you do. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

25 years, 8 months

Chrislin Industries

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

I've got disk box, 19" rack mount, that is labelled Chrislin Industries. Inside is an SA612 hard disk labelled DL0: on the front, and two 8" floppies (NEC floppies) labelled DY0: and DY1: on the left. (horizontal mount). Inside the box is a PC board that takes a 50pin connector (labelled "Controller") and has connectors labelled WINC0, WINC1, 5" FLOPPY, 8" FLOPPY, and WINCHESTER. This is the zillion dollar question, it looks as if this box could be plugged into an RQDX3 and emulate two RX02 and an RLxx. Or, it could plug into some CI controller that did its own emulation. My "Microcomputers and Memory" handbooks lists on the back the following boards for an 11/23 in a BA11-N #0 KDF11-AA #1 MSV11-DD #2 MSV11-DD #3 DLV11-J #4 spare #5 spare #6 spare #7 spare #8 BDV11-AA My question is if I stuck the RQDX3 in slot 4 would it work? If I found a copy of RSX-11M could I boot it on this system (128KB of memory) how about RT-11? Do I need the BDV11 if I have the RQDX3 ? --Chuck

25 years, 8 months

RARE: Original Macintosh found!!

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 99-04-24 19:02:39 EDT, you write: > Just kidding, but I am looking for some info. I found a good condition 128K > Mac at a sale today, with most of the original packaging and materials. I'd > like to know if anything's missing, other than the original packing box for > the system unit itself. I'd like to have a complete set of Mac Ver. 1 > materials. What I have is: sounds like you have everything and even more than what i got with my 128k system i bought. I didnt get a audiotape with mine. should be manuals for macwrite and macpaint though. Be on the lookout for dodgy video due to that infamous cold solder joint problem. My machine has it.

25 years, 8 months

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test-drb April 1999