test-drb October 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

175 participants
1141 discussions

16 Exabytes storrage (was: 64bit data 128Bit address...Re: Build

by franke＠sbs.de

>> The size isn't the real problem - you already get 16 Gig in less >> than 320 cm^3 (using hard disk technology) which is more than >> 100 Meg per cm^3, which gives us 100x100x100x100 Meg or 100 Tera >> per m^3 (Only heat will be a problem, but if we assume that this >> will shrink by the factor 2 within the next few years, we get >> enough space for cooling without developing a new technology). >> 100 Tera are 100x2^40 Bytes so, for 16 exabytes you need >> 10x2^18 m^3 or 64x64x64x10 m^3 - just the size of a ordinary >> 160 store skyscraper. Nothing real big - isn't it? - and especialy >> not a mountain. and if we assume a increasing density by 10 within >> the next years, it is less than a warehouse. >> (I just left the disc acces time out of calculation, but acording >> to any information availabel from disk manufacturers the internal >> caches will eliminate this almost to zero :) > Not so... > We can have 1 Terabytes now. > Seagate just announced their new drives in 3.5" I think in 50GB. > Use 20 of them and still fit in 1 minicomputer box. Just anounced ... hmm ok, will be availabel next year. So lets see 1 Tera in a minicomputer box ? Lets take the size of my minitower beside my desk (latest series SIEMENS Pro M7) its 20x46x44cm or 40.480 cm^3 (I cut off some plastic parts and the sidedes to lower the size and we ignore the need of power cables) lets say 40.000 cm^3 that gives us 25 units per m^3 (1 m^3 = 1.000.000 cm^3) - still four times more tan in my last experiment. Remember I never said 1 Tera is out of reach the mainframe I'm working on has a bit more than just a Tera as disk storrage. It's just about how to get 16 Exas of address space filled with minimum size requirements. Ok, but we can continue to use the Barracuda 50 as a known base for calculation. It will be a full height 3 1/2" drive thats 42x102x147 mm^3 or 629,748 cm^3. since this drive still radiates some 20W of heat, we still need cooling, but as in my first example we just double the space to add high eficient cooling (and cables and montage space) so we get some 1260 cm^3 now again packing it to the m^3 gives us 793 units - lets say 800 for easy calculation which gives us exactly 50x800 = 40.000 Meg or 40 Tera. I think we have still two years or so to wait before geting our 100 Tera per m^3... And for the price, the Baracuda 50 is anounced at USD 2.100, so 800 drives are just USD 1.620.000. Well I think we could get som off from Segate, if we sell more of our Storrage Meters ((c) ClassicCmp) :))) > And can be run > off the 15A 115VAC or two plus the computer iteslf. :) Didn't I say anything about power requirements ? And please just show me one drive (from today!) that is just connected to 115V (or 230V). We need a 5/12V DC supply with about 20W per drive (~6W at 5V and 14W at 12V with 30W peak). So 800 drives are somewhat like 16 kW so lets get 20 kW and regarding this, we just cant use 115 V even 400 V 3L~ will be kind of stressed :). And at our 12V line we get a current up to 1800 A peak or 700 A idle wich leads us to a copper rail of some 20 cm^2 to get a load of less than 100A per cm^2 (for US imaginations thats 3x1" solid copper) for the main supply line. And a second one will be needed for 5V and ground. Maybe we take silver (real cheap right now) so we could halve the size :) Oh, and a power supply of this capacity would be almost the same size than our Storage Meter (c), so we have to half the capacity, or just don't tell te customers that we need dubble the proposed space just to fire it up. All calculations ar rough estimation based on actual 10 Gig drives. Real proportions are not used to simplify calcualtion. Servus hans P.S.: it feels good to think of copper in cm^2 instead of fine line wire... -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

26 years, 1 month

ePay

by david_a._vandenbroucke＠hud.gov

I've taken the position that I'm going to deliberately ignore the snipers. I usually bid on the first day listed. I ask myself, "What is the maximum I'm _really_ willing to pay for this?" and that's what I bid. I get outbid on the last day (I don't track it more closely than that) fairly often, but it means that the high bidder is paying more than I would, and I can't argue with that. As often as not, when I'm outbid, my disappointment is tinged with relief: "Did I really bid _that_ much? What was I thinking of?" On the whole, I find it liberating to just bid my maximum and let the chips fall where they may. Dav Vandenbroucke Economist U.S. Dept. HUD david_a._vandenbroucke(a)hud.gov

26 years, 1 month

ePay

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>Anyway, this isn't hard. Its just a matter of moving all the action off >of eBay to somewhere more worthy. If everyone here (I know a lot of >you are still foolish enough to play eBay) would agree to an alternate >location that is perhaps built BY us, then we could lure away all the >other people who aren't on this list eventually and create the premier >vintage computer auction house on the web. Eventually, when this stuff >REALLY becomes valuable, we'll have a virtual stranglehold on the vintage >computer auction market. Wow. Perhaps its time to incorporate ClassicCmp. ;-) Kai just mentioned the owner of Haggle is a member of ClassicCmp (who?). And his creation of an "Antique Computer" section obviously shows he's interested. I'd also be willing to wager there isn't a larger, better organized group of computer collectors than on ClassicCmp. With some active endorsement from ClassicCmp members, and increased support for classic computers by Haggle, I think we'd be off to an excellent start. Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

26 years, 1 month

Microvaxen bits etc.

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 27 October 1998 18:05 Subject: Re: Microvaxen bits etc. >I think this is just off topic (less than 10 years) but.... Hmmm, well, the date on the 2nd 6310 is 1989, so I guess it's a couple months early. >We have a 6530 with the same problem. I just ignore the errors and boot the >system anyway. The only drawback is that the system will not autorestart >from a power failure. Hmm, I wondered about that, I rather thought the o/s might not care, I'll have a look at that approach and see what happens. I don't have any TK70 cartridges at the moment anyway.... (Been having a ball getting ready to transfer all my VMS binary installs >from 1/2" R/R tape to 4mm dat on a Vaxstation in the cluster now that I have a working 1/2" R/R tape system.) The TA78/TU78 that came with the original cluster has a couple of U/S PSU's, so I couldn't even re-install the O/S. Fortunately, I haven't needed to. Come to think of it, I don't actually know how to do an install of VMS to a bare system. Hmm, I wonder where in the grey wall THAT's documented. >I believe the correct approach is what you outlined above. If necessary I >can dig out the appropriate manual. If you mean the Vax 6000 owners manual, I did already. It implies that it does so from the console error messages in Appendix B-9, although the SAVE and RESTORE EEPROM command sections don't actually SAY that it does. Quote from VAX 6000-400 Owners Manual Console 5-37: "Saved information includes: Systemwide console parmeters (baud rate, interleave, terminal characteristics) Saved boot specifications Diagnostic patches Console patches Boot primitives" End Quote I'll give it a go as soon as I get some TK70's. Thanks for that. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

26 years, 1 month

Microvaxen bits etc.

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 04:43 PM 27-10-98 +1030, Geoff Roberts wrote: >Hmm, you'd know the answer to this, I'm sure. >Mission: >To make our existing 6310 into a 6320 by adding a cpu card from the other >machine. > >Problem: >The ROM is the same (4.1) but the s/n etc have to match for it to >be useable as a 2nd cpu. Will a save of the most recent of the cpu cards >EEPROM data >to the console TK70 and a restore to the other cpu duplicate the serial no? >Or is their some darker art required? I think this is just off topic (less than 10 years) but.... We have a 6530 with the same problem. I just ignore the errors and boot the system anyway. The only drawback is that the system will not autorestart >from a power failure. I believe the correct approach is what you outlined above. If necessary I can dig out the appropriate manual. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

26 years, 1 month

Microvaxen bits etc.

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 27 October 1998 15:38 Subject: Re: Microvaxen bits etc. >At 06:53 PM 26-10-98 +1030, Geoff Roberts wrote: >My spares cupboard is a good place to start :-) LOL. I should have known. >>BTW, Huw, did you ever come across a source for a Vax 8530-Console cable? > >I think it's in another cupboard in my spares room. It's just behind four >or five 6000 series cabinets, three HSC70s and a few other bits..... Name your price for a DELQA or DELQA-YM and the 8530 console cable. I'd swap you something, but you probably have 3 of everything I have already....:^) Hmm, you'd know the answer to this, I'm sure. Situation: We bought a complete system as spares, a 6310 with DMB-32, KDB-50 & 64mb plus a KLESI-B & TU81+ and 3 x RA90's. Very cheap, from a scrapyard. (I'm currently negotiating for the card fit from a couple of 6440's that turned up at the same place) Mission: To make our existing 6310 into a 6320 by adding a cpu card from the other machine. Problem: The ROM is the same (4.1) but the s/n etc have to match for it to be useable as a 2nd cpu. Will a save of the most recent of the cpu cards EEPROM data to the console TK70 and a restore to the other cpu duplicate the serial no? Or is their some darker art required? TIA. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

26 years, 1 month

Microvaxen bits etc.

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 06:53 PM 26-10-98 +1030, Geoff Roberts wrote: >Hi all, > >Any Aussies out there know a good place to look for an ethernet adapter >that will fit a Microvax II? I have a nice machine, complete with VMS 5.4, >freshly rescued from a scrap metal yard, but it has no network adapter. My spares cupboard is a good place to start :-) >BTW, Huw, did you ever come across a source for a Vax 8530-Console cable? I think it's in another cupboard in my spares room. It's just behind four or five 6000 series cabinets, three HSC70s and a few other bits..... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

26 years, 1 month

floppy drive storage

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I have about 27 apple floppy drives as well as other floppy based machines and am wondering about their long term storage. is it better to close the drive's latch or leave it unlatched? i would think that having the drive latched/door closed would keep the drive from possibly getting misaligned if it got moved or bumped around but on the other hand, having the drive closed for long periods of time could possibly deform the head load pad. comments? david

26 years, 1 month

eBay (aka: ePay, eVay, oyVay, etc...)

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)freegate.com> wrote: ] I'll admit that I am confused about the subtext in Jim's message where he ] writes: ] ] At 10:02 PM 10/25/98 -0800, you wrote: ] >Starting Saturday (perhaps earlier, but the first that I noticed) eBay has ] >been running radio spots on the national syndicate program feeds. ] > ... ] ] It sounds like this is a "bad" thing. Is it? If so why? It would seem that ] eBay is making a market for older computers that before didn't exist. Now ] is it that the 'old timers' who were used to picking up C64's at a garage ] sale for $1 will now have to pay $25 are grumbling? Doesn't this ] potentially increase the value of your own collection many fold? Isn't that ] a good thing? ] ... This is a good thing if you are collecting computers just so that you can sell them later at a profit. For those of us collecting to keep, it means higher expenses and/or fewer acquisitions. Of course, the unhappiness in my acquisitions department is eased by the knowledge that a few machines may be saved from the scrap heap by their sudden increase in value to the guy on the street. So the machines may be more expensive, but in the end there may be more of them available. Win some, lose some. ] --Chuck ] (Who is waiting for his Korg M1 synthesizer to become 'collectible' because ] he gave away an Arp Odessey when he was still clueless...) Bill.

26 years, 1 month

Computer History

by rax＠warbaby.com

Hi Kiddos - I just finished writing the first draft of the Computer History chapter of the book I'm working on. I've put it up on my site at http://www.warbaby.com/FG_test/comp_history.html - If any of you have the time and are so inclined (it's about 12,000 words), I'd be grateful if you'd take a look at it and let me know if you spot any errors or obvious omissions. It's written for people who know little or nothing about computers, so don't be too harsh with its lack of technical stuff. OTOH, let me know if you think it's readable by the technologically challenged. I'll have the Internet History up by tomorrow, if you're a glutton for punishment. TIA, R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.

26 years, 1 month

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test-drb October 1998