26 May
2000
26 May
'00
8:52 p.m.
A moment of silence, if you would, please, for the death of
another long-lived electronics/computer surplus place.
At the end of last month, Haltek Electronics, Mountain View,
CA closed their doors. Not because they wanted to, nor because
they didn't have a loyal following, but purely because of greed on
the part of their jackass of a landlord.
It seems that their lease was up for renewal. Their landlord,
decided to get greedy, and wanted to at least double what they'd
been paying for rent (maybe even 2.5 or triple... I'm not certain).
In any case, they could not have continued to make a
reasonable profit given what said landlord wanted to do, and there
was no better location available. They opted for a quiet and
dignified end.
While they may rarely have had the best prices on test gear or
computer hardware, Haltek was a very helpful source of parts for
me and Lord only knows how many other electronics types in the
Bay Area and beyond.
I sincerely hope their landlord ends up holding on to a
completely empty building for a VERY long time! Methinks he's a
graduate of the Bill Gates School of Compassion. :-P
Whatever else happens, I pray that other surplus stores, such
as Weird Stuff and Sharon Industries, aren't next on the chopping
block.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho,
Blue Feather Technologies (www.bluefeathertech.com)
kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
"SCSI Users, Unite! Beware the IDEs of March!"
27 May
27 May
3:53 a.m.
On Sat, 27 May 2000, Bruce Lane wrote:
At the end of last month, Haltek Electronics,
Mountain View,
CA closed their doors. Not because they wanted to, nor because
they didn't have a loyal following, but purely because of greed on
the part of their jackass of a landlord.
It seems that their lease was up for renewal. Their landlord,
decided to get greedy, and wanted to at least double what they'd
been paying for rent (maybe even 2.5 or triple... I'm not certain).
Bruce. You don't live in the area here. You don't understand the reality
of the situation. In case you hadn't noticed, there is an economic boom
going on here unparalleled in the history of man (or so the economists
say, but at any rate, it's huge). The market for real estate in the
Silicon Valley, for better or worse, is skyrocketing. Property values
have shot up, along with rents.
Now, in a communist state, this landlord would indeed be a greedy jackass,
or worse! But here in the good old U.S. of A., he's a capitalist. Why
should he be expected to operate as a charity?
Get some perspective.
While they may rarely have had the best prices on
test gear or
computer hardware, Haltek was a very helpful source of parts for
me and Lord only knows how many other electronics types in the
Bay Area and beyond.
I agree that the prices they charged for surplus electronics was mostly
inflated. Perhaps if they did have more reaonable pricing they would have
had a more vibrant business and would have been able to adjust to the
higher rent? Greedy jackass(es)?
I sincerely hope their landlord ends up holding on to
a
completely empty building for a VERY long time! Methinks he's a
graduate of the Bill Gates School of Compassion. :-P
I bet it's rented out already.
Whatever else happens, I pray that other surplus
stores, such
as Weird Stuff and Sharon Industries, aren't next on the chopping
block.
If their business model doesn't allow them to absorb higher rents then I'm
afraid they'll go under as well.
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
5:20 a.m.
Bruce. You don't live in the area here. You
don't understand the reality
of the situation. In case you hadn't noticed, there is an economic boom
Excuse me. I grew up in the Bay Area. Born and raised in
Berkeley, lived there for 23+ years before moving to WA.
Yes, I do understand some of the difficulties of finding decent
real estate. However, I would want hard proof that something other
than greed was involved before I stop calling their landlord a
jackass.
Get some perspective.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I still find it hard to believe
that some sort of deal could not have been worked out.
The ONLY reason prices and rents are skyrocketing as they
are is because of the odd and abstract idea that they should.
People create inflation, not the other way around.
<remainder snipped>
Sellam, I appreciate your sharing your opinion. However, it
does not change mine. I'm not going to go into this any further
because (a), I don't trust myself to do so without getting thoroughly
infuriated, and (b), I don't want to clutter the list with a long and
invovled argument.
I will say this much, and leave it as such. You can take your
"perspective" and stick it in your 8" floppy drive.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho,
Blue Feather Technologies (www.bluefeathertech.com)
kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
"SCSI Users, Unite! Beware the IDEs of March!"
6:48 a.m.
Bruce Lane wrote:
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I still
find it hard to believe
that some sort of deal could not have been worked out.
The ONLY reason prices and rents are skyrocketing as they
are is because of the odd and abstract idea that they should.
People create inflation, not the other way around.
No, the reason that rents in the south bay are skyrocketing is simple
supply and demand. There's simply not enough space. It's an
interesting reversal from not all that long ago, when there was a
glut of space in the south bay. Also unlike the past, there's not
much dirt left for development.
As for "working somthing out", consider that landlords in the south
bay are now routinely demanding -- and getting -- options on the
companies to which they lease.
This isn't to say that I like the situation, but it's not as if
I could reasonable expect a property owner to maintain his rents
below market value.
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
7:26 a.m.
New subject: Another moment of silence...
No, the reason that rents in the south bay are
skyrocketing is simple
supply and demand.
Not just the south bay.
The location of my office is adjacent to an area going through rampant
gentrification. When I moved my office to its current location 12 years
ago, 50 cents a square foot was going rate for warehouse space, usable as
office. Now such spaces are being sheetrocked and carpeted, and going for
$5 to $10 per square foot.
My landlords are a partnership. One of them is trying to retire. The
other just started a new venture that immediately failed. So, since the
building is worth ten times what they once paid for it, they're selling.
99% probability that the new owners will clear the building, remodel, and
raise the rents to 10 times their current level. And the zoning is such
that they could add a second level.
I've been losing money for a long time. I would keep going, anyway. But
there's just no way that I can rationalize moving AND continuing.
Therefore, after 22 years (12 in current location), XenoSoft is closing.
No idea how long before the landlords find a buyer; then I'll have 30
days.
"Greed"? "Capitalism"? It doesn't matter any more. Should I hate
my
landlords for it? I don't think so, and it's not worth it. I'm too busy
discarding all the stuff that represents that part of my life.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
7:47 a.m.
New subject: Another moment of silence...
Just to keep it in proportion, here in the Denver area, "clean" heated and
lighted space, concrete on the floor, what you'd like to rent for garage
space, except the landlords won't allow "dirty" enterprises such as auto
repair, body shops, etc, rents for about $10 where, in '92 it rented for
$6. That's just below what it (in 92) cost to build. Of course, now it
costs $50 to build.
My modest little house valued around $140K would cost $1.1million in the
south Bay, and probably more in some special areas. I surely wouldn't rent
my house out for what it would have cost 20 years ago to rent one like it.
I suppose that makes me greedy, right?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 1:26 PM
Subject: Another moment of silence...
No, the reason
that rents in the south bay are skyrocketing is simple
supply and demand.
Not just the south bay.
The location of my office is adjacent to an area going through rampant
gentrification. When I moved my office to its current location 12 years
ago, 50 cents a square foot was going rate for warehouse space, usable as
office. Now such spaces are being sheetrocked and carpeted, and going for
$5 to $10 per square foot.
My landlords are a partnership. One of them is trying to retire. The
other just started a new venture that immediately failed. So, since the
building is worth ten times what they once paid for it, they're selling.
99% probability that the new owners will clear the building, remodel, and
raise the rents to 10 times their current level. And the zoning is such
that they could add a second level.
I've been losing money for a long time. I would keep going, anyway. But
there's just no way that I can rationalize moving AND continuing.
Therefore, after 22 years (12 in current location), XenoSoft is closing.
No idea how long before the landlords find a buyer; then I'll have 30
days.
"Greed"? "Capitalism"? It doesn't matter any more. Should I hate
my
landlords for it? I don't think so, and it's not worth it. I'm too busy
discarding all the stuff that represents that part of my life.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
29 May
29 May
7:18 a.m.
> At the end of last month, Haltek Electronics,
Mountain View,
> CA closed their doors. Not because they wanted to, nor because
> they didn't have a loyal following, but purely because of greed on
> the part of their jackass of a landlord.
It seems that
their lease was up for renewal. Their landlord,
decided to get greedy, and wanted to at least double what they'd
been paying for rent (maybe even 2.5 or triple... I'm not certain).
Bruce. You don't live in the area here. You don't understand the reality
of the situation. In case you hadn't noticed, there is an economic boom
going on here unparalleled in the history of man (or so the economists
say, but at any rate, it's huge). The market for real estate in the
Silicon Valley, for better or worse, is skyrocketing. Property values
have shot up, along with rents. Now, in a communist state, this landlord would indeed
be a greedy jackass,
or worse! But here in the good old U.S. of A., he's a capitalist. Why
should he be expected to operate as a charity?
Hmm - I'd rather prefer a constitutional state where everybody
recives some protection by law ....
:))
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen
http://www.vintage.org/vcfe
http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe
8:02 a.m.
On Mon, 29 May 2000, Hans Franke wrote:
I still don't get the idea - Silicon Valley
(Contra Coast, Alameda and
Santa Clara), an area 4 times larger than Munich (City of Munich and
Munich county) and just roughly the same population, and you're talking
about skyrocketing prices ? maybe they should start to build something
(preferable something other than highways).
It would appear as if more people want to live in Silicon Valley than Munich.
It's called "supply and demand".
The average house in Silicon Valley costs $577,280 (Source: SJ Mercury News,
29 May 2000, page 7B). ( That's 1.216.791 DM at today's exchange rates, or
622.134,66 Euros. )
Commercial real estate has undergone similar escalation, with landlords now
commonly asking for substantial percentages of stock in pre-IPO companies
in addition to high rents. I know personally of a deal that fell through
because the company that lost was unwilling to give approximately 1% of the
outstanding stock to the landlord (in addition to the high rent); the
"winning" company gave more stock+cash.
If Silicon Valley weren't Paradise (esp. for geeks), it wouldn't make
sense... But...
-Mike
8:47 a.m.
On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 01:02:12PM -0700, Mike Cheponis wrote:
If Silicon Valley weren't Paradise (esp. for geeks), it wouldn't make
sense... But...
Actually, I mainly live here for the weather now. I've noticed the
quality of life in the area plunging faster than an Alaska Airlines
jet, and I'm more and more seriously looking around at other options.
I love the Bay Area. I was born in San Francisco, I really
consider this place home despite my family roots in New England
(which is just too hot in the summer, and too cold in the winter).
But unless there's a very serious housing market crash (and believe
me, I wish for one daily) I'm going to have to get out of this area
if I actually want to buy a house that doesn't suck. It's fine for
people who've owned a house in the area for more than a few years,
but for someone like me who's never owned a home, the barrier to
entry is far too high (even making a rediculously inflated salary,
as I think I do). Right now I can afford a very small one bedroom
condo in a fairly questionable area -- IF I can find one that doesn't
get bid out of my price range by competitors who want it more than
I do. Or, I can afford a four bedroom home in the nicest suburb of
Columbus, Ohio. (Yes, I realise Columbus Ohio fails my weather test.
Otherwise, I'd be there :)
So, I love living here, and I hate living here. For now I'll keep
renting (provided I can continue to find places to rent that I can
afford) but if the current trends continue for more than another
year, I'm very much _out_ of here.
-Mike
-Seth
P.S. - I did a quick survey of friends, and friends of friends,
to see if I know anyone who's actually made it rich by being a
Silicon Valley geek. Out of the big network of people we came up
with, we were able to find a friend of a friend of a friend who
supposedly cashed in his company stock options and got just over a
million dollars out of it (the report is unsubstantiated so far).
But, of the rest of us, noone's made a dime from options. In fact,
some of us have been screwed because of tax rules governing options,
and companies trading below their IPO price. So, I definitely don't
buy the "Geeks Get Rich in Silicon Valley!" argument. Maybe 1% do,
maybe 2% at the outside -- better odds than the Lottery, to be sure,
but hardly worth screwing yourself over by working at a go-nowhere
work-until-you-drop Startup company. The collective editors of
"Fast Company" and "Upside" can shove their trendy media rags up
their collective spotty behinds.
--
"As a general rule, the man in the habit of murdering | Seth Morabito
bookbinders, though he performs a distinct service | sethm(a)loomcom.com
to society, only wastes his own time and takes no |
personal advantage." -- Kenneth Grahame (1898) | Perth ==> *
9:23 a.m.
New subject: Atari 800 keyboards
I fired up my old Atari 800 this weekend, and it seems to work ok,
except the keyboard is extremely flakey (some of the keys don't
work too well unless you press really hard, and a few don't
work at all). Any ideas?
10:24 a.m.
New subject: Atari 800 keyboards
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12:04 p.m.
New subject: Atari 800 keyboards
5) Capacitive matrix (Keytronics, e.g. PERQ 2, Apricot, Sirius, etc).
These are not really switches. The keyboard works by the increase in
capacitance when a plastic disk coated with metal on the back bridges 2
electrodes on the PCB. These are actually very reliable, but you can take
off the PCB and clean it with propan-2-ol. The only common failure is
loss of the metalisation from the disks, for which the only cure is
replacement. The good news is that all such keyboards that I've seen use
the _same_ disks, so spares are not hard to come by.
A common failure for capacitive keyboards is age/ozone/whatnot which
causes the foam between the plastic disks to break down. I havent seen
the problem where the metal wears off the disk. Either way, you can
still buy brand new capacitive pads from Keytronic Corporation, about
10 cents per pad, or 9 cents if you buy at least 1000, plus 6.50
shipping of course. Just what the doctor ordered if you have Terak's.
It really helps out when playing videogames like Asteroids on my
Terak as well ;) For a while there, I thought I was losing my
skills.
-Lawrence LeMay
30 May
30 May
10:58 p.m.
New subject: Atari 800 keyboards
I know this may sound like a 'mad bomber' approach to a fix but I've
been an Atari hack for 17 years and really know the machines.
The 800 and 1200xl machines have very robust keyboards that age well but
if not used in a long time will exhibit the behavior you are describing.
The fix is to whack the heck out of every key on the keyboard many times
over. Something like 20+ keystrokes per key and don't spare it the
proper level of violence. Trust me and try it. Late model 800's and the
1200xl had nearly identical keyboard construction. I've 'fixed'
numerous machines using this method with no failures. I think the
reason it works is it 'cleans' the contacts through repetition.
technoid(a)cheta.net
"Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)" wrote:
I fired up my old Atari 800 this weekend, and it seems
to work ok,
except the keyboard is extremely flakey (some of the keys don't
work too well unless you press really hard, and a few don't
work at all). Any ideas?
31 May
31 May
5:48 a.m.
New subject: Atari 800 keyboards
That's one of the PRACTICAL uses of a keyboard actuator!
Never mind trying to use a Selectric as a printer, the REAL use of a
Dynatyper or KGS-80 is for copying megabytes of text to exercise a
keyboard.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
On Wed, 31 May 2000, Technoid Mutant wrote:
I know this may sound like a 'mad bomber'
approach to a fix but I've
been an Atari hack for 17 years and really know the machines.
The 800 and 1200xl machines have very robust keyboards that age well but
if not used in a long time will exhibit the behavior you are describing.
The fix is to whack the heck out of every key on the keyboard many times
over. Something like 20+ keystrokes per key and don't spare it the
proper level of violence. Trust me and try it. Late model 800's and the
1200xl had nearly identical keyboard construction. I've 'fixed'
numerous machines using this method with no failures. I think the
reason it works is it 'cleans' the contacts through repetition.
technoid(a)cheta.net
"Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)" wrote:
I fired up my old Atari 800 this weekend, and it
seems to work ok,
except the keyboard is extremely flakey (some of the keys don't
work too well unless you press really hard, and a few don't
work at all). Any ideas?
6:11 a.m.
New subject: Atari 800 keyboards
On Wed, 31 May 2000, Technoid Mutant wrote:
The fix is to whack the heck out of every key on the
keyboard many times
over. Something like 20+ keystrokes per key and don't spare it the
proper level of violence. Trust me and try it. Late model 800's and the
1200xl had nearly identical keyboard construction. I've 'fixed'
numerous machines using this method with no failures. I think the
reason it works is it 'cleans' the contacts through repetition.
I've noticed the keyboard seems to be getting a bit better as I
use it (a good strong stacatto touch helps too). Still want a 'backup'
though...
29 May
29 May
3:02 p.m.
On Mon, 29 May 2000, Mike Cheponis wrote:
It would appear as if more people want to live in
Silicon Valley than Munich.
It's called "supply and demand".
The average house in Silicon Valley costs $577,280 (Source: SJ Mercury News,
29 May 2000, page 7B). ( That's 1.216.791 DM at today's exchange rates, or
622.134,66 Euros. )
Commercial real estate has undergone similar escalation, with landlords now
commonly asking for substantial percentages of stock in pre-IPO companies
in addition to high rents. I know personally of a deal that fell through
because the company that lost was unwilling to give approximately 1% of the
outstanding stock to the landlord (in addition to the high rent); the
"winning" company gave more stock+cash.
If Silicon Valley weren't Paradise (esp. for geeks), it wouldn't make
sense... But...
I think ultimately this is going to affect the favor that the SV has
amongst geek companies. The startups will finally get some sense into
their now pre-IPO-blinded heads and take their companies elsewhere.
Workers will start to realize spending 3-5 hours (or more!) a day in
traffic just doesn't make sense anymore at ANY salary and will move
somewhere else to find work.
It's an equilibrium. I think we have seen the peak of the Silicon Valley
money machine and it's all downhill from here. It's just not fun any
longer.
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
4:58 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer GAWD!" <foo(a)siconic.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: A moment of silence...
Workers will start to realize spending 3-5 hours (or
more!) a day in
traffic just doesn't make sense anymore at ANY salary and will move
somewhere else to find work.
3-5 hours? Wow. I thought I had it bad in Sydney when a long commute
was around 45 minutes.
I now live in a country town/city where 10 minutes is the maximum
commute time. 2&1/2 hours to the capital city when necessary. Average
home prices around AU$70,000 for a 3-4 bedroom, depending on which part
of town. Lots of cheaper places in the AU$40-50k range. Downside is
that only people making $50k a year are 12 hour a day shiftworkers at
the lead smelter. I get AU$24k for administering a Vax/VMS
box(Mail/web/proxy/ftp etc),a Novell Server and 200+ PC's in a school.
Permanent part time 25 hours a week. Run a small business (internet
cafe/retail new & s/h systems/repairs etc) in the spare time. Not easy
to survive on that, even here. BTW,the exchange rate to the AU$ is
around US58c at the moment, and petrol just went through the 94c a litre
mark again, so it ain't necessarily as good as it sounds.
I don't believe we have a single area like Silicon Valley here, much
more spread around, there was an attempt to build a 'high tech city of
tomorrow' (polispeak) near Adelaide a couple years ago, but it never got
off the ground.
It's an equilibrium. I think we have seen the
peak of the Silicon
Valley
money machine and it's all downhill from here.
It's just not fun any
longer.
Doesn't sound like it. Time is more precious than money. Ask anyone
over 40.
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au
ICQ: 1970476
5:16 p.m.
On Tue, 30 May 2000, Geoff Roberts wrote:
I should elucidate by saying this is roundtrip. Mine only (only :) takes
about 1.5 hours (45 minutes each way) but that should change very soon as
I will go back to working from home again.
I'm taking my figures from best guesses, but a 5 hour roundtrip commute is
not out of line. I know some folks are coming in from cities that are 60+
miles from San Jose, and with the traffic along the way the commute can
take 2-3 hours one way.
Silicon Valley is no longer the geek paradise I dreamed of when I was
growing up. From where I stand, it's become a nightmarish hell of
traffic and way too many people. The boom was cool when it was revving up
but now it's just out of control.
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
Workers will
start to realize spending 3-5 hours (or more!) a day in
traffic just doesn't make sense anymore at ANY salary and will move
somewhere else to find work.
3-5 hours? Wow. I thought I had it bad in Sydney when a long commute
was around 45 minutes. 
10:15 a.m.
At 09:52 PM 5/31/00 +0000, Eric wrote:
That old Far Side strip with Einstein proving his new
theory that
time = money was not far off the mark.
I've found that they are quite interchangeable. You can nearly always
exchange money for someone to do something that is otherwise occupying your
time, you can nearly always achieve a goal by investing time and effort.
--Chuck
29 May
29 May
5:33 p.m.
"Vintage Computer GAWD!" wrote:
Workers will start to realize spending 3-5 hours (or
more!) a day in
traffic just doesn't make sense anymore at ANY salary and will move
somewhere else to find work.
You betcha -- I certainly did. I worked in the valley for eighteen
years but never lived in the south bay -- I've never liked that
much concrete. Before bailing out I was driving on a more-or-less
daily basis from Petaluma to San Jose. When that project ended we
pulled chocks and moved to the Sierras. Same income level, but
the air is clean (hell, we don't even have biennial smog checks) and
an eighteen-month-old, 2400 sq ft home on a little more than an acre
of dirt cost less than $200K.
My staff is now geographically disperse; I let them live and work
anywhere they please as long as they can get connectivity -- if
I'm going to live in the middle of a national forest the least I can do
is extend the same flexibility to my staff. I will admit, however, that
I still can't figure out why one guy opted for ND...
Personally, I'll boil my head before I work in the valley again. It will
hurt less.
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
6:02 p.m.
We have smog checks in Dallas, but I live in a small town (12k pop. I
commute 25 minutes to downtown and just built a 3500 ft2 house on a lake
shore last year for $225k. Salaries are a bit lower here. I made $82k as
the CTO for a small vertical market VAR last year. I might be able to
pull more money in the SV but I went out and looked around a few years
ago when I was between marriages and decided it was too crowded even
then.
James
Chris Kennedy wrote:
"Vintage Computer GAWD!" wrote:
Workers will start to realize spending 3-5 hours
(or more!) a day in
traffic just doesn't make sense anymore at ANY salary and will move
somewhere else to find work.
Same income level, but
the air is clean (hell, we don't even have biennial smog checks) and
an eighteen-month-old, 2400 sq ft home on a little more than an acre
of dirt cost less than $200K.
My staff is now geographically disperse; I let them live and work
anywhere they please as long as they can get connectivity -- if
I'm going to live in the middle of a national forest the least I can do
is extend the same flexibility to my staff. 
5:35 p.m.
Sellam International
Man of Intrigue and Danger
-----------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in
Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for
details!
I looked, but no details.
Do you have a tentative date? For us out-of-towners it
would help for planning purposes.
5:33 p.m.
On Mon, 29 May 2000, Wayne M. Smith wrote:
I looked, but no details.
Do you have a tentative date? For us out-of-towners it
would help for planning purposes.
I must apologize for the lack of any activity on the VCF website. I've
been working on updated pages for the past week and they are almost done.
But instead of making you wait until the new pages are up, here's the
scoop as it stands today:
VCF 4.0 is tentatively planned for late September/early October. My only
options at the Santa Clara Convention Center (where it's been held for the
past two years) are on October 7-8. All other weekends in those months
are booked. There's a good chance I will not get the 7-8. I am probably
going to have to find some place to hold the event this year. Stay tuned
on that.
I am thinking (just thinking, nothing even remotely decided yet) to have
an east coast event sometime in the late summer if I can get the ball
rolling in time. I'm talking to some fellow list members about it (sorry
I've been slow to respond!)
An east coast event will only happen if I get my current situation under
control, which is to move my collection to a new location, all 1,200sqft
of it (I'm losing the lease on the space I am at now). That is of
greatest concern to me right now, because with SV real estate being as
high as it is, finding a new home for everything will be difficult.
Being that I haven't even begun planning in earnest for VCF 4.0, an east
coast event would be a major feat, but I'm still considering it.
As far as the exhibition, I would now like to formally invite people to
begin thinking about what they would like to exhibit at this year's VCF.
Unofficially, I am wanting to include a special theme in this year's
exhibit, which will be homebrew computing or calculating devices. I was
inspired by the models of the mechanical calculator mechanisms I saw at
the Heinz Nixdorf Museum in Germany and thought it would be great if
people could research and create their own adder or counter mechanisms.
The exhibit will still feature your favorite computers, and of course
awards and prizes will be given out. The prizes haven't been decided yet
but they will of course be very cool (last year we gave away Cardiacs,
Nixdorf handhelds, bubble memories, t-shirts and money :)
There will again be a tour to The Computer Museum History Center, the Nerd
Trivia Challenge, and probably some new features.
The new web pages will be up within a matter of days. I'll make an
announcement to the list when they do go up. The pages will start to
fulfill some of the promises I made a while back, which is to become more
of a resource for computing history and collectors. As I get more time
and high bandwidth, we'll start to provide archives of different sorts,
helpful articles for the vintage computer hobbyist, and possibly even host
other vintage computing sites. (If you'd like to become a contributor of
articles and such, get in touch with me.)
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
30 May
30 May
4:01 a.m.
> I still don't get the idea - Silicon Valley
(Contra Coast, Alameda and
> Santa Clara), an area 4 times larger than Munich (City of Munich and
> Munich county) and just roughly the same population, and you're talking
> about skyrocketing prices ? maybe they should start to build something
> (preferable something other than highways).
It would appear as if more people want to live in
Silicon Valley than Munich.
Known here as well - I whish we could build City gates and charge
a commuter Tax (Lets say USD 10 per car) _and_ install some immigration
law to regulate the number of new citicens per year somewhere near
Zero - I wouldn't mind Americanos or even French, as long as we get
less immigrants from other Parts of Germany (read Prussians :).
The average house in Silicon Valley costs $577,280
(Source: SJ Mercury News,
29 May 2000, page 7B). ( That's 1.216.791 DM at today's exchange rates, or
622.134,66 Euros. )
House prices in Munich _start_ somewhere at ~1.2m DM (~600 kUSD) for
connected houses, while single houses _start_ at about 1.7m DM (~800 kUSD)
so there's still room :)
Commercial real estate has undergone similar
escalation, with landlords now
commonly asking for substantial percentages of stock in pre-IPO companies
in addition to high rents. I know personally of a deal that fell through
because the company that lost was unwilling to give approximately 1% of the
outstanding stock to the landlord (in addition to the high rent); the
"winning" company gave more stock+cash.
That's the new thing - I don't know about any similar stuff in Muncih.
If Silicon Valley weren't Paradise (esp. for
geeks), it wouldn't make
sense... But...
Now we're back on topic - is it still a paradise if surplus dealers and
other sources of fun gear are closing down ?
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen
http://www.vintage.org/vcfe
http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe
4:33 a.m.
HEY! . . . Smile when you say that, pardnuh! ... My father came from
Munich, but my mother was born in Berlin.
Aside from my half-year stay in Munich in '47, I lived outside Munich
(Groebenzell) for most of my first few years, Though I was born outside
Berlin, since that's where the Reich had stationed my father's unit
(Regiment Gross-Deutschland), which was a small "regiment" most of which was
on the eastern front while one battalion was in Berlin serving at the
pleasure of the leadership.
Your lamentations are sounding more and more like my Papa all the time. He
frequently began with "It should be illegal to do this . . ." and the like.)
In California, too, they have all-too-often tried to legislate good sense,
though they haven't managed it yet. Often it is too easy to start with
"there ought to be a law ..." but all that does is make work for the
lawyers.
Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. Here, in the "land of
opportunity" the opportunity can be viewed as an opportunity to get screwed.
It's all in how you look at things.
now . . . about those 'Sau-Preussen' you were referring to . . .
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: A moment of silence...
<snip>
now
Zero - I wouldn't mind Americanos or even French,
as long as we get
less immigrants from other Parts of Germany (read Prussians :).
> The average house in Silicon Valley costs $577,280 (Source: SJ Mercury
News,
> 29 May 2000, page 7B). ( That's 1.216.791 DM
at today's exchange rates,
or
622.134,66
Euros. )
House prices in Munich _start_ somewhere at ~1.2m DM (~600 kUSD) for
connected houses, while single houses _start_ at about 1.7m DM (~800 kUSD)
so there's still room :)
> Commercial real estate has undergone similar escalation, with landlords > commonly asking for substantial percentages of
stock in pre-IPO
companies
> in addition to high rents. I know personally of
a deal that fell
through
> because the company that lost was unwilling to
give approximately 1% of
the
outstanding
stock to the landlord (in addition to the high rent); the
"winning" company gave more stock+cash.
That's the new thing - I don't know about any similar stuff in Muncih.
If Silicon Valley weren't Paradise (esp. for
geeks), it wouldn't make
sense... But...
Now we're back on topic - is it still a paradise if surplus dealers and
other sources of fun gear are closing down ?
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen
http://www.vintage.org/vcfe
http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe
9:39 a.m.
Terribly sad they are closing, but who is getting all their stuff?
Last time I was in Halted, most of the prices seemed a bit silly, but I
agree the place had character.
9 a.m.
On Tue, 30 May 2000, Mike Ford wrote:
Terribly sad they are closing, but who is getting all
their stuff?
Last time I was in Halted, most of the prices seemed a bit silly, but I
agree the place had character.
Halted Specialties (HSC) is a different company. We are talking about
HalteK.
This whole issue is actually old news. Haltek already had a going out of
business sale. It happened a few weeks ago. Whatever didn't sell I
assume got scrapped.
Eric Smith probably knows more details.
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
10:05 a.m.
Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> wrote:
Terribly sad they are closing, but who is getting all
their stuff?
Last time I was in Halted, most of the prices seemed a bit silly, but I
agree the place had character.
Hi
Halted is still here, it was Haltek that went under.
Dwight
11:16 a.m.
Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> wrote:
Is HSC the place across the street from WSW and Fry's?
Where was Haltek?
Terribly sad they are closing, but who is getting
all their stuff?
Last time I was in Halted, most of the prices seemed a bit silly, but I
agree the place had character.
Hi
Halted is still here, it was Haltek that went under.
Dwight 
11:54 a.m.
Haltek was on Linda Vista right around the corner from the
Mexican restaurant.
Question. Did their Test Equipment store, right next door,
also close? They used to put on a great parking lot sale
every summer.
One time they got hold of about a dozen Collins 51S1's. Got
there just in time to see the last 2 get scooped up right before
my eyes. Went for about $175 apiece as I recall........ aaargh..
Nick
Mike Ford wrote:
Is HSC the place across the street from WSW and Fry's?
Where was Haltek?
6:02 p.m.
Haltek was on Linda Vista right around the corner from
the
Mexican restaurant.
Question. Did their Test Equipment store, right next door,
also close? They used to put on a great parking lot sale
every summer.
As far as I know, Test Labs was unaffected. FWIW, it was not
them that put on the parking lot sale. It was Haltek. Test Labs
usually just participated.
Also, I would add that most of what TL offered tended to be
beat up and overpriced.
One time they got hold of about a dozen Collins
51S1's. Got
there just in time to see the last 2 get scooped up right before
my eyes. Went for about $175 apiece as I recall........ aaargh..
<g> I said most, not all. They did occasionally goof and offer
the proverbial Heck Of A Deal. ;-)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho,
Blue Feather Technologies (www.bluefeathertech.com)
kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
"SCSI Users, Unite! Beware the IDEs of March!"
6:24 p.m.
New subject: NBI OASys 8" floppies
I brought home a box of maybe a dozen or so boxes of 10+ 8" floppies each,
and a little notebook that matches up with them. NBI OASys at a glance,
most of the floppies have similar info on them, with a couple boxes still
sealed blanks. SSSD Single Sided Single Density, with the little hole in
the jacket, but I didn't check to see if the floppy material has holes in
it too.
Cover page of notebook says, OASys at a glance is a quick reference guide
designed to provide you with brief, step by step instructions for OASys 64,
OASys 8, OASys 3000S and OASys 3000 features.
Reasonable offers from list members til Friday, then if no real interest
its eBay.
11:25 a.m.
Back in the '80's, Haltek was more of an engineering house, while Halted,
with whom they shared a phone number or warehouse address or some such, was
the surplus outlet. That's the sense I got from them when I inquired about
some surplus voice synthesis hardware I bought there. It's possible things
changed way back when, but that's the sense I got (1) from them (Halted) and
(2) from the combination of documents I got from them after buying the
things I bought. (ca. 1984).
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: A moment of silence...
Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> wrote:
Terribly sad they are closing, but who is getting
all their stuff?
Last time I was in Halted, most of the prices seemed a bit silly, but I
agree the place had character.
Hi
Halted is still here, it was Haltek that went under.
Dwight
29 May
29 May
8:28 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: A moment of silence...
reality
jackass,
Protection??? Protection from what? Protection from having the opportunity
to own real estate (which fewer Germans than Americans do) as a hedge
against inflation? It's no secret that when housing prices double, it's
likely everything else doubles along the way as well, so that's just
inflation. The fact that real estate rises in price as the population
rises, is no mystery. Will Rogers said that it's always a good investment
to buy a piece of the rock ... they don't make it any more.
My last rental property, a 10-acre rural property, was continuously rented
to the same tenants for 14 years, by my late ex-wife, BTW, but no matter.
When I finally got them out of there, it cost me $13K to have the trash
hauled off, the dirt hauled out of the house, and the premises, e.g.
outbuildings, fences, etc, repaired and cleaned, aside from which I spent
dozens of weekends on the premises making not-so-minor repairs to the house,
barn, and lesser outbuildings, not to mention the seriously damaged water
system(ruptured reservoir bladder, damaged wiring, worn-out pump) , which
cost another $4K to repair. The rent had remained the same for 12 of the 13
years these tenants had occupied the place. I did have offers to rent it at
a higher price, but felt it was not worth making the change by that time.
The lesson: if you don't charge enough rent, the tenants will treat the
property as though it's not worth anything. Corrolary: always charge the
"going rate" regardless of what you need to get out the property.
We had held the property as a "break-even" investment, planning to take our
profit as long-term capital gain. As it turned out, though regional
property values had more than doubled since we bought the property, the poor
condition and obvious repairs, not to mention poorly maintained landscaping,
made the property sell at a full 50% off the typical price of comparables in
the area.
I'm acquainted with a number of residential and commercial landlords and
have yet to meet one who's making the kind of money that people seem to
think landlords make. Most of them spend the little profit they make on
their rental holdings on aspirin, antacids, whiskey, and prune juice, all
the while hoping that the building's still standing when the lease expires.
If I'm ever in the position to become a landlord, (God forbid!) I'll set the
rent based on the market, the damage/security deposit at 2/3 the combined
gross annual income of the tenants and demand both that plus first and last
months' rent in cash on the date of signing of the lease.
Now, what, exactly is it that you believe renters need to be protected from,
Hans?
> At the
end of last month, Haltek Electronics, Mountain View,
> CA closed their doors. Not because they wanted to, nor because
> they didn't have a loyal following, but purely because of greed on
> the part of their jackass of a landlord.
> > It seems that their lease was up for renewal. Their landlord,
> > decided to get greedy, and wanted to at least double what they'd
> > been paying for rent (maybe even 2.5 or triple... I'm not certain).
>
> Bruce. You don't live in the area here. You don't understand the
of the
situation. In case you hadn't noticed, there is an economic boom
going on here unparalleled in the history of man (or so the economists
say, but at any rate, it's huge). The market for real estate in the
Silicon Valley, for better or worse, is skyrocketing. Property values
have shot up, along with rents.
I still don't get the idea - Silicon Valey (Contra Coast, Alameda and
Santa Clara), an area 4 times larger than Munich (City of Munich and
Munich county) and just roughly the same population, and you're talking
about skyrocketing prices ? maybe they should start to build something
(preferable something other than highways).
Well, anyway, beside all this there's still a question what impact
this may have for our hobby, and future geek generations. Without
some scrap dealer next door, it's hard to get in touch with usefull
devices....
> Now, in a communist state, this landlord would indeed be a greedy or worse! But
here in the good old U.S. of A., he's a capitalist. Why
should he be expected to operate as a charity?
Hmm - I'd rather prefer a constitutional state where everybody
receives some protection by law ....
:))
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen
http://www.vintage.org/vcfe
http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe
2:57 p.m.
On Mon, 29 May 2000, Hans Franke wrote:
Damn socialists!
;)
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
Now, in a
communist state, this landlord would indeed be a greedy jackass,
or worse! But here in the good old U.S. of A., he's a capitalist. Why
should he be expected to operate as a charity?
Hmm - I'd rather prefer a constitutional state where everybody
recives some protection by law .... 
27 May
27 May
8:45 a.m.
Hello Bruce
On 27-May-00, you wrote:
A moment of silence, if you would, please, for the
death of
another long-lived electronics/computer surplus place.
At the end of last month, Haltek Electronics, Mountain View,
CA closed their doors. Not because they wanted to, nor because
they didn't have a loyal following, but purely because of greed on
the part of their jackass of a landlord.
It seems that their lease was up for renewal. Their landlord,
decided to get greedy, and wanted to at least double what they'd
been paying for rent (maybe even 2.5 or triple... I'm not certain).
In any case, they could not have continued to make a
reasonable profit given what said landlord wanted to do, and there
was no better location available. They opted for a quiet and
dignified end.
While they may rarely have had the best prices on test gear or
computer hardware, Haltek was a very helpful source of parts for
me and Lord only knows how many other electronics types in the
Bay Area and beyond.
I sincerely hope their landlord ends up holding on to a
completely empty building for a VERY long time! Methinks he's a
graduate of the Bill Gates School of Compassion. :-P
Whatever else happens, I pray that other surplus stores, such
as Weird Stuff and Sharon Industries, aren't next on the chopping
block.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho,
Blue Feather Technologies (www.bluefeathertech.com)
kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
"SCSI Users, Unite! Beware the IDEs of March!"
Yes, seems more and more people here have been watching "Wall Street" (the
movie and the real thing) and embracing Sam Geckoe's motto, "Greed . . . is
good." Seems to be the way of the new millenium, starting with the gas
pumps.
Regards
--
Gary Hildebrand
ghldbrd(a)ccp.com
10:27 a.m.
Bruce wrote (about Haltek):
It seems that their lease was up for renewal. Their
landlord,
decided to get greedy, and wanted to at least double what they'd
been paying for rent (maybe even 2.5 or triple... I'm not certain).
Their landlord apparently didn't even *offer* to let them stay for a
higher rent. He just said "I've got someone else who has agreed to
pay twice what you're paying; get out!"
28 May
28 May
3:35 a.m.
At 10:27 PM 5/27/00 +0000, you wrote:
Their landlord apparently didn't even *offer* to
let them stay for a
higher rent. He just said "I've got someone else who has agreed to
pay twice what you're paying; get out!"
Speaking as a landlord, there's always two sides to the story.
Of course, the landlord has the right to decide what sort of tenant
he wants, regardless of price. It could be something as simple
as smokers versus non-smokers, or some other quality of tenant.
As for the whole hell-in-a-handbasket scenario, money is one way
of expressing value. If more people want a quick oil-change or
white-collar office space, and give those businesses more money
so they can pay the doubled rent, so be it.
- John
8740
days inactive
8744
days old
38 comments
22 participants
participants (22)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
chris＠mainecoon.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
elvey＠hal.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jrice＠texoma.net -
kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com -
lemay＠cs.umn.edu -
mac＠Wireless.Com -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
oliv555＠arrl.net -
richard＠idcomm.com -
sethm＠loomcom.com -
Technoid＠cheta.net -
transit＠lerctr.org -
wmsmith＠earthlink.net