<1. 386 or 486 box with AMI (American Megatrends) BIOS. I've had some
Exactly a AMI 386 is what I have.
<2. RAM is relatively unimportant BUT if you do not have more than 4 me
<you will need to go through a procedure to turn on your swap space BEFO
<running the install or it will crash and die.
8meg of ram
<3. Do NOT try doing the Linux running out of an MS-DOS directory on yo
<first install. I've NEVER done this nor do I suspect it's that pleasan
Not being done.
<4. Use IDE hard drives until you know enough about doing installs. Th
<you can use SCSI more effectively.
I was given today a 420meg IDE drive to replace the EDSI unit I had.
<5. If your BIOS can deal with the drive, Linux can too...with CERTAIN
<exceptions...on some BIOSs you're given the choice of using Normal, Lar
<or LBA for block addressing. Sometimes you have to try different
<settings to get a Linux install to go. Linux may complain if it thinks
<the drive has more than 1024 cylinders but the complaint can,
<essentially, be ignored these days. This is experience speaking.
826/16/63 vanilla even to dos!
<6. Be prepared to turn off caches...internal and external in the BIOS.
<Sometimes, especially on newer kernels like Slackware 3.0, you can't ge
<the boot floppy to go because it'll crash out and give you stack dump
<type information. Try turning off first the external cache and then th
<internal cache if that doesn't work. Not all caches are created equal
I'm not getting stackdumps. I'm getting all mannor of boot errors
related to the filesystem mountability or RW/RO status.
<7. Create TWO partitions with fdisk...the sequence looks like this...
I have one bootable 389mb linux and the other 16mb swap.
<8. If it's formatting the partitions and freaks out complaining that i
<can't write inodes or superblocks and gives you a long list of these
<complaints...and you have a drive over 2 gigs in size try creating 3
<partitions...the first two of equal size totalling most of the drive an
<the last being your swap. Or try a different block addressibility type
<in the BIOS.
Not a problem I get fully through the setup.
<9. There are usually different boot disk types...IDE only, IDE/SCSI,
<SCSI only. Make sure you use the IDE only. It's the easiest.
IDE is all I have other than floppy.
<10. If you want to install off cdrom and the install won't recognize t
<drive...wait for the boot prompt when you boot up and type install
<hdX=cdrom where X is a,b,c or d which correspond to what you're used to
<as Drive C:, D:, E: or F: If it's an IDE-ATAPI type CD-ROM, it should
CDrom is not installed, if it were it's a phillips cm205 (unsupported)
and not IDE-atapi. the CDrom is in another box (486powered) and the
floppies were made from there.
<Finally, if someone REALLY REALLY wants to load Linux on a system and i
<willing to follow my instructions, be patient with me, realize that I
<have a family to support and will send me some trinket in return (S-100
<cards, Shugart SA-400 drives, etc all work) AND are willing to call ME
<long-distance I can probably help you out. Email is probably easier.
Humm sa400? I may have one in the pile fairly unused.
The problem is nothing works as advertized for a vanilla install.
This box is as vanilla as they come.
AMI 386DX/33, 128k cache, 8mb ram, connor 420mb IDE, 3.5" 1.44 floppy,
serial mouse on com1: modem at com2:, DECPA(DE100) NI, TRIDENT 512k
SVGA. Runs dos/win3.1 real well(just to prove the hardware works).
It's taken a year to scrounge up all the parts to create this system.
Allison
The idea of using linux as a free OS on aging 386 boxen or as a platform
for getting a unix running on older classic platforms has merit.
There is one little bug... I've never seen a running linux box nor
have I been successful in getting one going. After loading 75 floppies
becuase the CDrom I have is not supported I'm more than annoyed and
have not found a resource to assist beyond suggesting I'd be better
off running microspooge. The latter is insulting and demeaning. On
the other hand if someone can prove that working slakware v3.0 really
exists I can be swayed.
Allison
That's TERRIBLE. I mean 486 parts can even get SOLD AS-IS for a decent sum
of money. The whole system goes for a couple hundred. So if they're going
to scrap 'em.... but anyway, lots of schools, non-profit orginazations, etc.
would love to have decent 386's, and 486's would be better. Sure, you can't
play Quake on 'em, but a 386 was designed with 10 years of x86 software in
mind.
And, as history has proven, it is easy to destroy, as the Romans,
Egyptians, Sumerians, and Greeks did, but it is so hard to CREATE and
PRESERVE. That's why we must try to save these things. Eventually, when
your or my XT is one of the last 60-75, we probably won't be alive, but the
future genereations will love seeing a working one.
Well, there's my $0.02 on this.
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: I don't believe this ****
>>At 07:43 AM 1/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>>Out of curiosity has anyone else with web pages dealing with classic
>>>computers been contacted by someone that wants to dispose of your
>>>collection as scrap? Talk about insulting!
>>>
>>> Zane
>>
>> No, but sounds like a good candidate for a mail bombing! I suppose he
>>wants you to ship it to him at your expense, right?
>
>I wouldn't doubt it. Here is what she had to say, with my original answer,
>I guess I should have added that I was also trying to save them from
>individuals like she was talking about.
>
>Initially I just thought she was fronting for someone that dealt in classic
>computers, so her reply REALLY PISSED ME OFF! Anything other than 486+
>get's melted down for scrap? I'm sorry, but that includes A LOT of systems
>that there are a lot of people that would love to have them. Besides
>considering the fact that some of the systems I've got, like the Atari
>TT030 go for several hundred dollars.
>
>>Hi, Zane.
>>
>>> >Seems u have a lot of equipment, any surplus that you might give away?
I
>>> >could get a good price for u, if you are interested.
>>>
>>> Um, No. It's a hobby, and an attempt to preserve a part of our history
>>> that is steadily finding it's way into our landfills.
>>
>>My local dealer supply old comps or household appliance to iron, alloy
>>or plastic mills. They melt them down and supply these to manufacturers.
>>
>>It's recycling.
>>
>>486-and-above systems get refurbished...
>>
>>Regards,
>>Crystal.
>
>
>| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
>| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
>| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
>| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
>| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
>| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
>| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
>
>
Just curoius...where does one purchase new filters for DEC RK05 drives?
I have three new ones, so I'm not in any immediate need. But, I'd just like
to establish a source.
Also, since I don't have the maintenance manual yet, what's the hours in
service between filter changes?
FYI...I contacted Dialight, the manufacturer of the LED replacement
lamps for the RK05 drives. The lamps are still manufactured, but they're a
"custom" part. Minimum order of each color is 90 at $2.47 each. If anyone is
interested, let me know. The sales rep at Dialight is researching the specs
on it since she is not familiar with what makes the part custom.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Last week-end, I got an original Atari 2600
brown console, in the original box. Haven't tried it yet...
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
At 04:51 PM 1/5/98 EST, you wrote:
>I'm sorry, but if people say it's ok to pirate old games, even more people
>than now will start to say, "Well, this game is not that new", and pirate IT.
>Now, I have nothing against software piracy on a simple basis: either I get
>the program for free, and the compay loses 50 bucks, or I don't get the
>program at all, which means that the company is still 50 bucks short.
However,
>my 14.4 modem helps me keep my morals straight :)
I guess we should just take this on a case by case basis. Most home pirates
never get caught. The "software cops" always go after the bigtime
distributors, people who make the copies and distribute them to others. I
don't think it really matters, because people are gonna do what they want
to do no matter what (Like me).
>How many people do you suppose would buy the original frogger? Even for $5?
>Even if someone put a rack of frogger diskettes for free out in CompUSA or
>something, how many would take it?
I sure as heck would. I never pass up on anything free. I would also pay $5
for the original Frogger if I had an XT or 286 sitting at home.
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
Didnt ESDI come out when the IBM PS/2 announced?
In a message dated 98-01-05 21:31:57 EST, you write:
<<
> MFM (early 80's?)
Very early 80's, I think, for the ST-506.
> RLL (late 80's?)
I tend to think of this as a minor variation of MFM, myself :-)
> SCSI (late 70's?)
The first official-type "SCSI specification" was proposed by an
ANSI committee in 1984. It was almost backwards-compatible with SASI
(Shugart Associates System|Storage Interface) which had been kicking
around since 1978 or 1979.
> ESDI (?)
Mid-80's
> IDE
aka "ATA", clostely related to the announcement of the IBM AT... which would
put it around 1985 or shortly afterwards? This wasn't really a new standard;
the IDE bus interface looks exactly like a WD1002 hooked up to a MFM drive!
> any others?
The SA4000 and SA1000 interfaces date from the late 70's.
And let's not forget the granddaddy of them all, SMD! (CDC, 1975 or so?)
And SMD's immediate descendant, the MASSBUS...
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
>>
> At 08:48 AM 1/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >Two, that today's computers run old software too quickly - that doesn't
> >sound like archaic software to me, if it's running directly on today's
> >machines and OSes.
>
> Try loading up Buck Rogers and the Planet of Zoom! on a Cyrix 200 and see
> how well it plays. Same goes for Frogger. :) They run blindingly fast,
> making them utterly worthless unless you use one of those slowdown utils,
> but most of those only run right on 486s.
There is a PC-based game I got on a shareware CD that came with my Pentium-75
called "Galactic Food Fight". It is blindingly fast as well. It's shareware,
so if anyone wants a copy....
> Three, that ancient games don't "hurt" today's
> >software market. Doing what?
>
> Doing what? Being available for "free" (illegally) out there for people to
> get to them. The fact that people are still playing them doesn't affect
> today's game market at all. It's a whole different ballpark out there these
> days.
I'm sorry, but if people say it's ok to pirate old games, even more people
than now will start to say, "Well, this game is not that new", and pirate IT.
Now, I have nothing against software piracy on a simple basis: either I get
the program for free, and the compay loses 50 bucks, or I don't get the
program at all, which means that the company is still 50 bucks short. However,
my 14.4 modem helps me keep my morals straight :)
> >so ... so, you say they should give up on them? A tenth of something is
> >still something.
>
> But repackaging the games and shipping them would up the price to at least
> $10.00 a piece, and you would have to come up with a cheap way to make sure
> the games ran at original speed on all systems, another few bucks for R&D
> right there, so you'll probably end up spending $50.00 for a compilation CD
> with maybe 10 games on it, and nothing else. (Can you say "Roberta Williams
> Sierra Compilation"?)
>
> Why not release the games as shareware, with no set ammount defined? People
> could pay what the game is worth to them. I think Maxis did that with the
> original SimCity.
How many people do you suppose would buy the original frogger? Even for $5?
Even if someone put a rack of frogger diskettes for free out in CompUSA or
something, how many would take it?
> >Don't get me wrong and think I'm just flaming you... I agree, I wish
>
> Oh, not at all. I expected alot more flak from people when I started this
> thread, but was suprised at how well the members of the list are taking it.
> (so far)
>
>
> - John Higginbotham
>- limbo.netpath.net
>
BTW, where is that Linux emulator page?
-----Original Message-----
From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: I don't believe this ****
>
>
>> Out of curiosity has anyone else with web pages dealing with classic
>> computers been contacted by someone that wants to dispose of your
>> collection as scrap? Talk about insulting!
>
>I've never had anyone contact me. If they did, I'd ask them if I could
>buy some of their old computers by the pound. =-)
>
>Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
>
This time it is an "HM-6100 Pocket Reference Card" from Harris
Semiconductor. It is a simple one sheet affair (folded improperly,
unfortunately), describing Harris's implementation of the one chip PDP-8.
As with other offers, interested parties should give me a reason why they
need the thing, and I will shoot it out (postage is basically nothing) to
the winner. No "first come first serve" here.
Also as with other offers, I can be bribed with some equally small bit of
computer paper from the mini and mainframe world.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
Just wanted to let you all know I have a few odd and ends up on e-bay
right. An old TRS-80 stringy floppy drive, some TRS-80 manuals, etc. Just
check for the seller coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu for the complete listing of
what's up there now. The stringy floppy drive comes with 11 floppy
'wafers' and the auction on that will end tonight!
Just wanted to let you all know -- for whateevr it's worth?? :-)
CORD
##############################################################################
# Cord G. Coslor -- P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE #
# (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 #
# Classic computer software and hardware collector #
# Autograph collector #
##############################################################################
#The##/ ___ /#/ ___ /##/ ___ /#/ /##/ /#/_ __/#/ /#/ /#/ _____##
#####/ /##/ /#/ /##/ /##/ /##/__/#/ /##/ /###/ /###/ /#/ /#/ /#######
####/ ___ /#/ _ __/##/ /#######/ ___ /###/ /###/ /#/ /#/ _____/###
###/ /##/ /#/ /#\ \###/ /##/ /#/ /##/ /###/ /###/ /#/ /#/ /#########
##/__/##/__/#/_/###\_\#/________/#/__/##/__/#/______/#/_______/#/________/####
##############################################################################
