On the subject of scrapping systems, I found too late that an IBM Convertible
had gone to the trash. I didn't get to use it, and I only now found the
original notepad-address book-etc. program on the IBM ftp site. I once had a
computer store in the neighborhood that threw away dozens of machines (empty
PC cases, mostly) each day. That moved away :( I often am forced to leave
machines where they are, just because I can't have dozens of 386's and 286's
in my apartment, but it's a shame. If they were lighter, I would give them to
people. Now, I have a relative in NJ who says that his company throws away
486s. So much for affirmative action. One last thing. I keep seeing people
mention how they get dozens of CoCos for free, find them in shops for $5,
etc. Look, I have never even SEEN a CoCo, and I live in Boston, MA, where I
thought there were lots of computers. I would love to run an enhanced CoCo.
The worst thing is, back when that computer store was still here, I didn't
know what to take. Maybe they were throwing away PDP-11s and Alphas and
Crays, I will never know.
classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subj: Re: UNIX questions?
Tony Duell wrote:
>Ob classic-computer-OS. I agree with some other messages on this list - a
>Linux/minix port to the PDP11 would be very nice. The PDP11 is just about
>unique in that it's a popular classic computer with _no_ freely
>distributable OS (in fact, unless you have the license transferred, you
>can't even legally run what it was running before you got it). Now that
>CP/M is jsut about free for home use, as is LDOS (for the TRS-80), OS8,
>Linux, Minix (for educational use), etc, it appears that the PDP11 is the
>machine that's left out of all this.
I am not sure if things were different for the DEC OSes for the PDP-11
but for VMS (VAX & AXP) one can legally run the OS and attendant utilities
(DECnet & the DCL shell) with transfer of ownership. To be legal you
have to purchase new license PAKs and/or new distributions for any of the
layered products which includes all the interesting compilers, DBses etc.
BTW to Bruce Lane regarding BSDs: A web page discussing flavors and ports
at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/BSD-info/BSD.html seems to be inaccesible
at this time.
For money you could try Ultrix as in:
http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/DECinfo/.2/SPD/26.40.32.txt
- and I thought digital was no longer selling ultrix products (?)
Peter Prymmer
does anyone need some old Bernoulli 8in 20MB Flexible Disk Cartridges?
I got about 45 of them, plus a cleaning kit. The company was gonna toss
'em.
Let me know if you are interested.
Kelly
KFergason(a)aol.com
At 12:05 PM 1/3/98 -0800, Lynn & Mike wrote:
>> Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie,
>> that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die.
>
>Yup, that's what I used to think. I felt sorry for all those poor
[...]
>have an open mind, all we can do is try) -- will become His followers.
This is *definitely* not the list for this nonsense.
(Still, I'll note that if you believe that stuff, you shouldn't believe in
computers, let alone use them. If you want to continue this off-list, feel
free to drop me a private note.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
The biggest chunk of my collection are games that I no longer have boxes
for, etc. Let alone original disks or license agreements. Heck, I think
even most of the companies are out of business by now. Anyone remember
Datasoft? Epyx?
At 06:39 AM 1/6/98 +0300, you wrote:
>OK... I've got a Cyrix 200, so give me your games. ;-) (Implying that you
>give me the listences, without them "installed" on any other machine) Or,
>if you've got some sharware....
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
OK... I've got a Cyrix 200, so give me your games. ;-) (Implying that you
give me the listences, without them "installed" on any other machine) Or,
if you've got some sharware....
-----Original Message-----
From: John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: operating systems
>At 08:48 AM 1/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>Two, that today's computers run old software too quickly - that doesn't
>>sound like archaic software to me, if it's running directly on today's
>>machines and OSes.
>
>Try loading up Buck Rogers and the Planet of Zoom! on a Cyrix 200 and see
>how well it plays. Same goes for Frogger. :) They run blindingly fast,
>making them utterly worthless unless you use one of those slowdown utils,
>but most of those only run right on 486s.
>
> Three, that ancient games don't "hurt" today's
>>software market. Doing what?
>
>Doing what? Being available for "free" (illegally) out there for people to
>get to them. The fact that people are still playing them doesn't affect
>today's game market at all. It's a whole different ballpark out there these
>days.
>
>>so ... so, you say they should give up on them? A tenth of something is
>>still something.
>
>But repackaging the games and shipping them would up the price to at least
>$10.00 a piece, and you would have to come up with a cheap way to make sure
>the games ran at original speed on all systems, another few bucks for R&D
>right there, so you'll probably end up spending $50.00 for a compilation CD
>with maybe 10 games on it, and nothing else. (Can you say "Roberta Williams
>Sierra Compilation"?)
>
>Why not release the games as shareware, with no set ammount defined? People
>could pay what the game is worth to them. I think Maxis did that with the
>original SimCity.
>
>>Don't get me wrong and think I'm just flaming you... I agree, I wish
>
>Oh, not at all. I expected alot more flak from people when I started this
>thread, but was suprised at how well the members of the list are taking it.
>(so far)
>
>
>- John Higginbotham
>- limbo.netpath.net
>
First off, this goes for husbands too, since I'm sure there are women on
this list (but I don't pay much attention to irrelevancies like that).
At 07:01 PM 1/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
>No no no. My wife, who is not at all into computers (still seems to pick
>up stuff fast and I don't have to tell her how to do something more than
>once usually), LOVES my hobby of collecting computers.
[...]
>Plus, she knows I won't give her a hard time about collecting Barbies,
>books and pets...because she's so understanding about my hobby.
Here's a tip: even cheaper than finding an SO with a hobby (I know what
Barbies and books can go for!) find a *good*, dedicated teacher.
You'll have evenings and weekends all to yourself while he/she does
homework, does lesson plans, etc. Of course, there are downsides -- like
getting up at 6am to drive her to school to drop off the 12page substitute
teacher plans she stayed up all night doing (and to do an hours' worth of
work) when she's too sick too go to school. 8^)
Of course, if you want understanding *and* free time, find a teacher who
collects something. That gets expensive though. (Donald Duck stuff can be
even more expensive than Barbies, and there's more of it!)
8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 11:52 PM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>some of the configuration tools) that you will be using an HP terminal
>that supports block mode, which (approximately) lets the application
Different commands from vt100 block mode of course. Most terminal emulators
*don't* include HP terminal emulation. (I've got Walker Richer & Quinn's
Reflections, so who cares. Though, there was a program back in the late
80's for the Atari ST that featured HP emulation; wish I'd bought a copy then!)
>> What is the shell like?
>
>The MPE command interpreter...well, I can't speak for the MPE/iX CI.
>I haven't used it enough.
MPE/iX (newer version for the new CPU models) is pretty much the same as
good old MPE, but with some of the extensions MPEX thought up tacked on.
>Well, you get EDIT/3000, which is a line-oriented editor that is
>suitable for use on all manner of terminals, even the printing ones.
Actually, EDIT/3000 isn't suitable for much at all. 8^) Much like MS-DOS's
EDLIN.
>(e.g. Robelle's QEDIT, which lots of 3000 folks swear by).
Some of us actually say our daily prayers to the Robelle Gods.
Probably my favorite aspect of MPE is file equations. You can define a name
and point it to just about anything, adding on a lot of control and options
and stuff. For example, you could say:
File Fred = Barney07.bed.rock;rec=-80,,f,ascii;disc=10000
which would mean that whenever you referenced fred (or *fred sometimes) the
computer would actually use the file Barney07 in the Bed group of the Rock
account (the file structure is a little wierd) and it would have an 80-byte,
fixed length, ASCII (not binary) record and a limit of 10000 records in the
file.
You can also point to printers:
File laser;dev=141,1,3
which would mean that "laser" would refer to the device on port 141, have an
output priority of 1 (very low) and have 3 copies. (Note: I may have my
syntax a little fouled up; that's why I use the online help a lot.)
You can even reference yourself:
File Me=$StdList;rec=-132,,f,ascii;nocctl
which means Me is my stdlist (my screen) which has a 132 byte record
(fixed-length, ascii) and doesn't use carriage control.
Of course, if you're feeling really non-productive, you can do:
File Output = $null
8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 09:51 PM 1/2/98 PST, you wrote:
>I am brimming with curiosity about the MPE OS: What is it like?
>
Frank is probably better off answering this than I, but...
MPE is a great OS. Been around since the mid-70's, I believe. The HP3000
series of computers is (I think) somewhat comparable to the DEC PDP series.
Two things you simply shouldn't be without on a 3000: Qedit and MPEX. Qedit
is an incredible editor while MPEX extends the capabilities of the OS.
Lots of third party support, very popular in the business side of things
(accounting depts., etc.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 10:45 PM 1/2/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> >get all those pretty colors... (Thank goodness *somebody*'s coloring all
>> >those boring old black and white movies! 8^)
>>
>Oh, coloring those b/w shows and movies ruined it because quality and
>appearance looked offish to me. The original NTSC b/w is what is
>original format designed for TV's in old days and it looked better
Just for the record... That was a *joke* about colorizing movies! It
should be illegal, punishable by drawing & quarterign. Movies made in b&w
(well, good ones, anyway) made use of the b&w; colorizing kills a lot of
what the director worked so hard for.
Just did't want anyone thinking I actually *liked* colorized movies... 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/