John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> wrote:
>Which brings up an interesting point: Why do the self appointed software
>cops go after software archives of "abandonware" that most of today's
>computers usually run too fast anyway? Do these ancient games really hurt
>todays software market? Anything 10 years old or older should be
>freeware/public domain as far as games are concerned. They don't increase
>productivity, and the collectors of these old games aren't doing any harm
>are they?
So let me get this straight: on one hand, you're saying there's a bunch
of people out there who like to play old computer games, but you think
the software owners shouldn't be free to sell to that market because
there's no gain in productivity or increase in "harm"? What about
learning or enjoyment?
I think this list proves there is some small level of demand for old
stuff... and certainly game makers like Microsoft and Atari have done
well by selling relatively inexpensive pre-made collections of
either the exact old games or updated emulations. I'm stunned by
the amount of software that has been collected and redistributed
(largely illegally) for the very good software-based emulators
for old computers. Many of these emulators have become commercial
products, again proving there's a bit of profit left in old software.
On the other hand, I agree with some of your sentiment - it would be
nice if there was a more formalized, established and accepted method
that antique computer collectors could secure the rights to redistribute
software that the owners have in fact abandoned.
For example, I've tried to track down the rights to the Terak computer,
as described on my web page. Terak was sold to CalComp, then a Sanders
company, which was later assimilated by Lockheed-Martin. Try to wind
your way through that bureaucracy to find the long-time employee who
*might* be able to track down those assets - if you could convince
them of the good intent of your interest, and that they should take
time out of their day to help you.
Similarly, I tried to clarify the rights to UCSD Pascal's p-code system.
The UCSD licensing agency has stated that the license is non-exclusive,
but in reality they have only one licensee, Cabot Systems in the UK,
who are actively trying to sell the P-System as an alternative to Java
for set-top boxes and embedded applications. Ken Bowles, author of a
well-known early book on Pascal and one of the original designers of
the P-System, believes that at least the early versions should be
public domain because they were developed by the university with
government funds, or something like that.
You can see the problem: as soon as you *ask* about the obscure software
and claim there's hundreds of people interested in using it, someone
sees dollar signs and doesn't want to simply give it away. Non-profit
collectors feel they're a "good cause" and that they'd take really
good care of the stuff, but there are collectors and publishers out
there who do seek to make a profit.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
Yeah, BTW, how old are the RS/6K's?
-----Original Message-----
From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: UNIX questions?
>Olminkhof wrote:
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com>
>> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>> Date: Sunday, 4 January 1998 11:46
>> Subject: Re: UNIX questions?
>>
>> >It'll be nice when Caldera follows up on their promise to release the
>> >source code for CP/M and DR-DOS (now OpenDOS). _That_ will definitely
>> >have some results on-topic for this mailing list.
>>Ward Griffiths
>>
>> They already HAVE released the source code for OpenDOS. While it is far
>> beyond me to do anything with it, I found it very well commented and
>> interesting. I was amazed at the number of "fixes" for specific hardware.
>
>You're right -- they _have_. It wasn't there a couple of weeks ago
>when I was printing out all of the manuals (which are the best that
>I've ever seen outside of the Linux Documentation Project -- they make
>the manuals that used to come with MS-DOS look like crap). Well, that
>takes care of my lunch hour Monday while I dump it from the T-1 to a
>Zip disk. Have to remember to grab a sandwich at Blimpy's at Newark
>Penn Station in the morning.
>
>Yes, I know a Zip disk has a lot more space than will be needed -- but
>for some reason I've taken to isolating my archives to avoid confusion.
>All of my material from Tim Mann's TRS-80 site is on one, all of my
>AT&T Unix PC material is on another, and so on for the Color Computer,
>the ST, the Mod 100 etc. Eventually, I'll wind up burning a couple of
>CDs -- since somebody was kind enough to find an excuse for one at work.
>Pity that it's attached to an NT box, since I'd prefer to use proper
>Unix filenames -- but maybe I can sucker^H^H^H^H^H^Htalk my boss into
>letting me hook it up to one of my RS/6000s for a couple of hours.
>--
>Ward Griffiths
>Dylan: How many years must some people exist,
> before they're allowed to be free?
>WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed",
> they'll never be free.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, 4 January 1998 11:46
Subject: Re: UNIX questions?
>It'll be nice when Caldera follows up on their promise to release the
>source code for CP/M and DR-DOS (now OpenDOS). _That_ will definitely
>have some results on-topic for this mailing list.
>--
>Ward Griffiths
They already HAVE released the source code for OpenDOS. While it is far
beyond me to do anything with it, I found it very well commented and
interesting. I was amazed at the number of "fixes" for specific hardware.
>From: "Cliff Gregory" <cgregory(a)lrbcg.com>
>Subject: CBM 8032
>Anyone have a source for manuals/software for a CBM 8032 /8050 floppy >drive?
>Cliff Gregory
>cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
First try might be the PET archives at:
http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/
After that I can offer you this:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/petfaq.htmlhttp://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/diskbasics.htmlhttp://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/loadingbasics.html
Lastly check out the Commodore information on Jim Brain's Commodore site
(Caboom), which includes a PET www message SIG:
http://www.jbrain.com/caboom/
================================
Once you find software on-line - One of the real bummers is that the
8032 does not have an RS-232 port for easy communication (read: file
transfer via null-modem) nor is the 8050 drive compatible with any other
Commodore disk drive (like the 4040/2031 is compatible with the 1541
thus making it easy to get software to a 4040 by doing a null-modem to a
64 and writing with a 1541).
Though I am not saying it is impossible; the PET does have a parallel
user port which is VERY easy to program. With a bit of coding knowledge
a few parts and soldering you could whip up a PET-to-Whatever connector
and the appropriate software for transferring files.
Larry Anderson
--
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I note that you *N*X users mention recompiling the kernel. Is that
something peculiar to the UNIX/LINUX world? Is it done by the average user?
I presume (from "context clues", as my fourth grade son's homework puts it)
that it provides a smaller/faster/more crashproof installation.
I've always run CP/M and Bill's M$-DO$ and have no experience with UNIX.
Should I -- I fix boxen and run online and graphics apps; I don't program
much anymore -- play with UNIX? What would I get out of it?
manney
At 06:01 PM 1/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Should I -- I fix boxen and run online and graphics apps; I don't program
>much anymore -- play with UNIX? What would I get out of it?
Headaches one day, major breakthroughs the next, a trip to the crazy house a
few weeks later... I'm a user, and I can honestly say I can quit any time I
want!
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
Awhile back there was talk here about getting the documentation for the
classic machines as while as the machines themself. I picked up a IBM
Guide to Operations manual 6025113 Dated 1981,1982 and listed as the First
Edition. In the back was a clear plastic bag with a casette tape for
Diagnostic's number 6081562 version 1.02 new and unopened. The book cost
me 50 cents at the Goodwill. Also got a AMIGA monitor I believe a 1080 for
$15 at Goodwill. I also won the bid on a very large bo full of computers,
parts, TV's, microwaves, and other items for 35.00 will list later after I
sort it all out. Keep computing !!! John
> Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie,
> that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die.
Yup, that's what I used to think. I felt sorry for all those poor
misguided fools, Christians. (Didn't occur to me that some of them
were very bright, and very skeptical, and had spent years studying
to seek truth, & only then became Christians.)
And then one day, I was forced to examine my 'beliefs', & was a
little surprised to see that they were assumptions only. Bummer.
So I had to check it out for myself. Sure is a ton of info out
there, some good, some not, but anyway I was finally able to go
1%, & God went the other 99.
So I now believe that anyone who diligently tries to disprove the
teachings of Jesus, or seeks truth or whatever terminology you can
live with -- with any kind of open mind at all (none of us can truly
have an open mind, all we can do is try) -- will become His followers.
Go and do likewise. Don't be chicken.......
Regards,
---mikey
I am the owner of a Kaypro 10 computer kindly left to me by a deceased
friend, unfortunately I have no manual which restricts my use of the
computer. can you help me please?
Dave
Actually, the ELKS webpage mentions that it should be technically possible and
not-too-difficult to port ELKS to PDP-11
In a message dated 98-01-03 01:08:46 EST, you write:
<< > >This argument is going to piss off Bill Whitson when he next checks in.
> >Linux is _not_ within the scopy of this mailing list. And I recall an
>
> Well, Linux does run on 10+ year old systems, so on that basis this might
> be an OK subject. For example, my Amiga 2000's are over ten years old I
> believe, and with the proper accelerator they can run Linux. In fact with
> it's merits (yes, I know I'm one of those argueing).
>
> >item in the FAQ that this _not_ the right place for dicksize wars
> >between proponents of different systems -- the "advocacy" newsgroups
> >supply corrals for that gunfight.
>
> This on the otherhand is definitly not a correct topic for the mailing
> list, and yes, I think this fact is mentioned in the FAQ.
Well, I'm not sure that Wind-blows is really an appropriate topic either
but I see people talking about it all the time.
I doubt it will 'piss' Bill off since we're talking about how Linux can
be used to 'resurrect' ancient and obsolete hardware like 386sx's and so
on. Although it's not Altairs, I think it is in the spirit of what we're
all about.
Heck, every day I wonder why there isn't a Linux PDP-11 port. =-)
Wirehead - Anthony Clifton >>
