- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

by bygg＠cafax.se

Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote: > d) The TRULY IMPORTANT issues will never be solved through the use of > armed forces: > big-endian V little-endian > vi v emacs > DEC V IBM > CDC V IBM > TRS80 V Apple > Atari V Commodore > IBM V Apple > Android V IOS > Linux V Windoze V MacOS > number of buttons on a mouse On the other hand, the fight against the X86 architecture might be done with the help of arm forces... --Johnny /\_/\ ( *.* ) > ^ <

7 years, 11 months

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micro pdp11/83 power supply

by mail＠waldemar-brodkorb.de

Hi, I started to revive an old Micro PDP11/83 I have for over 12 years now. It is fully assembled and last time I tried to start the machine it some kind of started. My biggest issue at the moment is the power supply. After the machine is running for a while, let's say 10 minutes and then when I poweroff, the power supply starts producing a lot of dense smoke. The smell is very penetrant. What can I do with the power supply? Do I need to exchange it completely or just parts of it? At the moment I removed it from the case like described here: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/microPDP11/EK-MIC11-TM-002_MicroPDP1… Thanks in advance for any starting hints, Waldemar

7 years, 11 months

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aox double time 16 - Any info?

by alexandre.tabajara＠gmail.com

Greetings! A friend of mine got a aox double time 16 board into a mac SE Unfortunately it isn't working (not accelerating the mac) and we're unable to find any info on it Any helpers? :o) thanks Alexandre

7 years, 11 months

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HP 2100 prototyping card

by aek＠bitsavers.org

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163039837440 obviously NOT used..

7 years, 11 months

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Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Happy Armed Forces Day 2018 Saturday, May 19 ... Do not forget our brave men and women! Ed# WWW,SMECC,org ? ?KF7RWW

7 years, 11 months

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PING JAY sent you a really weird DG system pic yesterday may be in ur bad msg folder check it out - ed#

by couryhouse＠aol.com

PING JAY sent you a really weird DG system pic yesterday may be in ur bad msg folder check it out - ed#

7 years, 11 months

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MS11 M8110/M8120 controller card differences

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

So I notice that M8120 controller card for the MS11 seems to share its etch with the earlier M8110 variant (the M8120 says "M8110" in the etch :-); so the differences must be component/configuration/ECO. Does anyone happen to know what the differences between the two are? Thanks! Noel

7 years, 11 months

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OT: Vintage test and other equipment available

by rich.cini＠gmail.com

All ? ??????????????? I did a rescue of some vintage HP equipment for VCFE and the donor had the following vintage test and other equipment left over in his storage unit (from his father, who had recently passed, an engineer for North American Bosch). It goes to the dumpster at the end of May. Location is Long Island (Farmingdale). If anyone is interested, please contact me off-list. Thanks. ??????????????? *????????????? HP 202C Low Frequency Oscillator ??????????????? *????????????? HP 202A Low Frequency Function Generator ??????????????? *????????????? HP 4000 Vacuum Tube Voltmeter ??????????????? *????????????? Heathkit IG-62 color bar generator ??????????????? *????????????? Megadata Multi-video Display (looks like on-screen video titler) ??????????????? *????????????? Invac triple paper tape drive in a 6' rack ??????????????? *????????????? Dumont 403 Oscilloscope Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

7 years, 11 months

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Interest Check: Belden Thicknet 10base5 Ethernet Coax

by systems.glitch＠gmail.com

All, Per the recent discussion on thicknet/early Ethernet, I figured I'd see if there's any interest in cut-to-length Belden thicknet/10base5 Ethernet cable. I've got a local surplus guy who's got at least one 1100 foot roll. It's the real Ethernet spec stuff, sez so on the cable, and it has the bands to locate your vampire taps. If there's enough interest, I'll buy the spool off of him and cut it to length for whoever's interested in buying some. I can crimp N terminations on as well. Thanks, Jonathan

7 years, 11 months

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Personal Communications

by cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net

I ran across the following messages in comp.os.os2.marketplace (referenced from comp.os.os2.programmer.misc) and remembered that there were a few people talking about IBM's Personal Communications Manger here, particularly in the context of the P/390. So I figured that I'd cross post the info. The asking price (free + S&H) seems reasonable.) -- Grant. . . . unix || die

7 years, 11 months

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Next 'stack' of computers to go, IBM p7's - not classics this time

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mark Linimon > Would love to if you can change your mind on shipping? https://www.pakmail.com/ Like I said, they will come pick things up, as they sit - perfect for Pete's situation. And from my experience, not _always_ cheap, but _usually_ pretty good (e.g. a large PDP-11 in a 19" rack from Toronto to Virginia was about $500, which for international freight on something that big is pretty good.) Noel

7 years, 11 months

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Tennecomp

by kylevowen＠gmail.com

Al uploaded some of my Tennecomp docs onto Bitsavers: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/tennecomp/ He also already had some brochures, which are very interesting as well. Anyone else have some Tennecomp stuff? I've got more stuff to scan, including a bunch of schematics (size C paper, for the most part), as well as a few other manuals I believe. I'd be curious to hear any of their history, especially because of their location in Oak Ridge, TN. I will also photograph some of my Tennecomp things (my Minidek, some Omnibus boards, etc.) at some point. Thanks, Kyle P.S. My Minidek came with some carts, but the pressure pads are all rotted. A cursory glance online didn't turn up any source of replacement pads in stock for Fidelipacs/Stereo-Paks. Anyone have any suggestions, or tips on making your own?

7 years, 11 months

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DEC COM, MEM, ETC.

by useddec＠gmail.com

I've been doing some sorting looking for some boards for a list member, and found a few items I will probably never use. Shipping from 61820, and overseas upon request. Stateside shipping is $16 for as many hex or quad height boards as you want, and $11 for as many quads as you want. Looking for offers, the more you want, the better. M7800 DL11 M7819 DZ11 M8202 DMC11 M8203 DMP11 M8206 DMC11 M8637 MSV11 M8639-YA, YB RQDX M8722 MS11-MB 11/44 M8728 11/70 MOS M8743 MS11-PB Boards only, no cables unless part of board. This is only the tip of the iceberg, feel free to ask about others. I do have one 11/70 memory box left. I think it is MOS, and I will check if requested. Many thanks, Paul

7 years, 11 months

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HP Series 9000 early 1980’s computer hardware

by ljw-cctech＠ljw.me.uk

The following was sent to the list as an attachment so I am forwarding it. Please don't reply to me but rather to Mr Parker. I have removed his full address and phone number. To:? classiccmp.org Re: HP Series 9000 early 1980?s computer hardware Hi, I own several HP 9020 work stations along with peripheral gear associated with that series. That gear includes several types of hard drives and tape drives, standalone monitors and even an impact 132 character line printer. I also have a CPU, that I think is a 9000/550. Not a work station but a more powerful CPU using the same technology as the 9000/520. Plus cables and extra circuit boards used in that series equipment. All of the stuff worked the last time it was fired up. I also have the disks and tapes for the software shipped with that equipment. I am getting along in years and rather leaving it to be trashed in the future I am looking for a new home for the stuff. So can you suggest someone who might be interested in it? Sincerely, Charles D. Parker Howell, MI 48844 Chas.parker at comcast.net -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence at ljw.me.uk The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360

7 years, 11 months

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Rodents!

by sales＠elecplus.com

We have spent many hours the past few days testing and cleaning mice and trackballs. Right now there are 45 different types listed. https://www.elecshopper.com/input-devices/mice-and-trackballs.html ADB, serial, and USB to choose from. More to come! Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com AOL IM elcpls --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

7 years, 11 months

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Looking for info on "Soft Tape Forth" for the Apple IIe

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

I've gotten a copy of this Forth from someplace. I was going to play with it some but it has so many non-standard words, I ws hoping someone might have glossary of words for this Forth. Also, it came with a number of game programs that used some graphics output. I was wondering which graphics board it was intended to work with. Dwight

7 years, 11 months

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Unknown CDC unit , looks like a drum memory ?

by r_a_feldman＠hotmail.com

> On Wed, 16 May 2018, geneb wrote: >> On Wed, 16 May 2018, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: >> >>> OK? I? see there is a? mix? of? photos in this? directory! >>> some? tape? reader? some? drum? 2? separate? topics. >>> ? >> Ed, I don't know if you (or anyone else) can see this, but there's two junk >> characters at the end of every word you write. I see it in Alpine and it >> makes your text nearly unreadable. :) I get the digest and see question mark characters after most words. Perhaps they will show in the above quoted message, which I copied out of the digest. Bob

7 years, 11 months

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6130B

by aek＠bitsavers.org

just showed up https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-6130B-Digital-Voltage-Source-50-Volts-1-Amp/202…

7 years, 11 months

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Unknown CDC unit , looks like a drum memory ?

by jos.dreesen＠greenmail.ch

Visited an older collector recently, and in his shed he has a strange thing, labeled CDC, that somehow looks like a drum memory, but then again not ( drum looks too small to be usefull ) The controller that goes with is? a transistor based? monster on countless small pluginboards. Pictures on? ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Unknown_CDC_Stuff Anyone can identify this ? Jos

7 years, 11 months

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Datasheet for Signetics spc16/10 ( Single chip Philips P800 processor ) ?

by jos.dreesen＠greenmail.ch

Subject says it all : anyone has datasheets for this obscure single chip Philips P800-type microprocessor ? Cant find anything but a student's report from 1981, and it is not listed in the Signetics databooks of the time ( +/- 1980) ( this is not related to the General Automation SPC16 family) Jos

7 years, 11 months

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Kaypro 2000 charging

by trash3＠splab.cas.neu.edu

Hi, I just found a Kaypro 2000 at the local recycler. No power supply. From what I can find online it has three(3) lead acid batteries. Any thoughts on getting it to fire up? I do not know the polarity of the power jack on the back. Once I get that, I was thinking of a 6 volt supply, more to just turn it on, rather than try to charge the batteries. Thanks. Joe Heck

7 years, 11 months

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ISO: DECtape controller

by derschjo＠gmail.com

I was fortunate enough to acquire a TU56 this week, along with a TD8E controller.? However, the TU56 lacks the G888 flip-chips necessary to work with the TD8E; I know these parts are in short supply, but in the unlikely event that anyone has (a) a set of 5 G888 boards, or (b) a TC01, TC08 or TC11 DECtape controller in any condition that they would be interested in selling/trading for, please drop me a line. Thanks as always! Josh

7 years, 11 months

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FS: PDP-11/23 + RL02

by ben＠bensinclair.com

I haven't gotten this all together yet, but thought I'd let people here know first that I have a PDP-11/23 for sale! I'm just trying to clean things out, and have decided to focus my collection a bit. I need to go down and inventory everything, but I have a PDP-11/23 with 64KW of memory (not sure on what boards I have to give it that yet). The machine itself works, thanks to some help from people on this list. I have not gotten around to getting the RL02 working, though I have the interface and what I believe is the proper cabling. It's a pretty clean drive, and does power on just fine. I boot the 11 via a TU-58 emulator, so other than the RL02 I don't have any physical drives or tapes. Not sure on the price yet, but thought I'd see if anyone is interested. Ideally this would be for pickup in Des Moines, Iowa. Thanks! -- Ben Sinclair ben at bensinclair.com

7 years, 11 months

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ISO: DECtape controller

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Josh Dersch > the TU56 lacks the G888 flip-chips necessary to work with the TD8E; I > know these parts are in short supply, but in the unlikely event that > anyone has (a) a set of 5 G888 boards, I have this memory that someone in Scandanavia is well along with the process of creating new G888's. (If I should not have let that cat out of the bag, my apologies.) Noel

7 years, 11 months

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ISO: DECtape controller

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On 16 May 2018, at 08:37, Josh Dersch via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: >I was fortunate enough to acquire a TU56 this week, along with a TD8E controller.? However, the TU56 lacks the G888 flip-chips necessary to work with the TD8E; I know these parts are in short supply, but in the unlikely event that anyone has (a) a set of 5 G888 boards, or (b) a TC01, TC08 or TC11 DECtape controller in any condition that they would be interested in selling/trading for, please drop me a line. Thanks as always! Josh I have a similar problem. Has anyone re-engineered the G888?

7 years, 11 months

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IBM AS/400 (iSeries) Available - Free - Kansas City

by leolists＠seidkr.com

I have 4 AS/400s free to a good home. One is an S20, one is an 820, and 2 are 730. I also have several extra various cards, CRT consoles, cables, etc. for them. Please come get these as I have moved to a much smaller house and there is just no room for them. Private emails to leo42i[at]seidkr[dot]com Thanks! Philip

7 years, 11 months

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Old Toshiba laptop, tested

by sales＠elecplus.com

https://www.elecshopper.com/vintage-computers/toshiba-3100-20-notebook-teste d.html If you have your RRS feed on then you already know this J https://www.elecshopper.com/rss/ Adding more rodents and other small items soon. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com AOL IM elcpls --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

7 years, 11 months

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Restoring a PC Server 500 P/390 - now running

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

Folks, Just to say I did end up doing a re-install of OS/2 on a smaller drive, which took most of today, but the P390 software is now installed and I have loaded VM/CMS and IPL'd a simple 3-pack system copied from Hercules. The readme that comes with the P/390 V2.5 software explains how to set up the systems so PCOMMS can talk to it. I still don't have the screen resolution working at 1024 x 768 which the manual says it should. Oh and PMVNC also runs so I can remote control the beast. It was all a bit of a slog, mostly because OS/2 is a bit of a slog. The P/390 was the easy part. Thanks to all who helped, Dave

7 years, 11 months

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Anyone have an HP 12661A DVS card manual, 12661-90004?

by glen.slick＠gmail.com

I don't see a manual for the HP 12661A DVS (Digital Voltage Source) interface card on bitsavers, or hpmuseum.net, or anywhere else. The only reference I have found is in a list of not scanned manuals here: http://rikers.org/hp2100/jeff/iocards/iocards2.txt ---------- 12661 DIG VOLT SOURCE ---------- MANUAL FOR DIGITAL VOLTAGE SOURCE PROGRAMMER INTERFACE KIT HP 12661A MANUAL NO. 12661-90004 APRIL 1971 [Cards #12661-6001 and 12661-6002, connector 02116-6178] This is the interface card that would be used in an HP 1000 to control an HP 6130A Digital Voltage Source. See Hewlett-Packard Journal, June 1968. There is the 14902A BCS driver as listed in 5950-9226_HP_Software_Catalog_Aug1973.pdf Source code for that driver is available as 14902-80001_Rev-A.src in the bitsavers HP_1000_software_collection Master Files, Type 4. Mainly just curious because I have a couple of HP 12661A interface cards without manuals that I have never tried to use and I was reminded about them when an HP 6130A made a brief appearance in Marc's latest Weird Stuff video.

7 years, 11 months

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ever wanted to own your own set McGraw-Hill's Compilation of Open Systems Standards (McGraw-Hill data communications book series) (1991-01-30) Hardcove

by couryhouse＠aol.com

ever wanted to own your own set?McGraw-Hill's Compilation of Open Systems Standards (McGraw-Hill data communications book series) (1991-01-30)?Hardcoverdrop me a line? ?off list...? thx? ? ? Ed#

7 years, 11 months

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drum heads chuck check you company email for pic

by couryhouse＠aol.com

drum heads chuck check you company email for pic Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

7 years, 11 months

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Zenith Z-90 startup

by jules.richardson99＠gmail.com

Any Zenith Z-90 owners out there (which appears to be the same thing as a Z-89 / Heath H89, but with a DD soft-sectored disk controller)? I was given one up a couple of days ago which isn't giving the expected "H:" prompt at power-on - but it *does* give a blinking cursor, and hitting off-line lets me type, and characters get echoed to the screen. Right-shift-reset clears the screen and gets me back to the cursor. Before I dig deeper, I'd like to verify that this isn't a feature, i.e. that it's not auto-magically dropping into "terminal mode" at startup :-) Unfortunately while I have masses of documentation for the machine, I'm lacking a basic user guide which might shed light on any such mode; some of the more detailed documentation that I have talks about rerouting the port cabling to use the system purely as a terminal, but doesn't mention doing any other configuration. cheers Jules

7 years, 11 months

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Sparc Laptops

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 23:11:57 -0500 > From: "Sam O'nella" <barythrin at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Sparc Laptops > > Yes the IBMs are worth tracking down. I always keep my eye out but rarely > see them come up for sale but it'd be fun to have an RS/6000 that doesn't > cause a hernia to move. My only similar one is a tadpole but I don't recall > the version. I used a universal power supply to get it to run for a little > while but then I'm pretty sure the backlight on the lcd popped and went > out. So I'm also a member of the almost but not quite functioning owners > club. :-) Would gladly get rid of some Ultras if I could upgrade to a > portable. > The Tadpole with the 50MHz PowerPC processor was sold as an IBM N40. I have one of those too. -- Michael Thompson

7 years, 11 months

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Anyone need KB11-B FMPS?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

So I've just realized that the KB11-B (the earlier -11/70 CPU, the KB11-C being the later) FMPS is not online; I couldn't find them (but then my Google-fu is notoriously weak, q.v. the Motorola 4015 - thanks all, BTW), but Manx also says: http://manx-docs.org/details.php/1,9214 they aren't available. So, I have a set (got it not too long ago on eBait). Does anyone need these? Only my 8x11 scanner has auto-feed, so I'm not up to doing the whole thing, but I'm prepared to go through and scan the things that are different from the KB11-C (the prints for which _are_ available); the M8133 and M8138, and whatever else is different (flow diagrams, etc). Noel

7 years, 11 months

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Restoring a PC Server 500 P/390

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

Folks, I am rebuilding a Microchannel server with a P/390 card. It must have come with a licence for OS/2 Communications Manager as its required to get the P390 working but despite having several boxes of CDs and Floppy Disks I can't find a copy of this software anywhere. If anyone has a copy of CM 2.11 they are not using and would be prepared to sell me., I would be pleased to pay for it. Dave Wade G4UGM & EA7KAE

7 years, 11 months

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how fast were drum memories?

by paulkoning＠comcast.net

Drums were used as main memory in a number of early computers, and as secondary memory for a while longer. I wonder how fast real ones (actually constructed) managed to be. What prompted this question is reading an interesting document: https://ir.cwi.nl/pub/9603 (in Dutch), "Principles of electronic calculating machines, course notes February 1948" by Prof. A. van Wijngaarden at the Mathematical Center (now CWI) in Amsterdam. It's quite a fascinating short introduction into computing technology of that era. (One comment in the intro: "The field is new. At the moment, the Eniac is the only working machine..." -- probably not quite accurate given some classified machines, but not too far wrong.) The section on main memory describes a bunch of different technoly possibilities, one of them drum memory. He writes that a drum of 8 cm diameter (a bit over 3 inches) and "a couple of decimeters height" could hold maybe 100k bits, with a track pitch of "a few millimeters". So far so good. He goes on to suggest that such a drum might spin at 1000 revolutions per second, i.e., 60,000 rpm. That seems amazingly high. I could see it being physically possible for a drum of only 40 mm radius, but it sure doesn't sound easy. It's a good goal to strive for given that the logic, even in the days of vacuum tubes, can run at cycle times of just a couple of microseconds. As one more way to speed things up he suggests having multiple rows of read/write heads, where the addressed word would be picked up by whichever head sees it soonest. 10 rows and 60k rpm would give you 50 microseconds average access time which "even for a parallel computer would be a very attractive number". (Pages 17-18) I'm wondering what the reality of fast drum memories looked like, and whether anyone came even close to these numbers. Also, am I right in thinking they are at least in principle achievable? I know I could run the stress numbers, but haven't done so. paul

7 years, 11 months

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Next 'stack' of computers to go, IBM p7's - not classics this time

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Pete Lancashire > NO PACKING OR SHIPPING, must be local pickup. Just a reminded to everyone; most PakMail franchises are prepared to go somewhere off-site, pick items up where they sit, and then pack them; I've used this service several times for 'pick up only' items. Noel

7 years, 11 months

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Looking for info on Motorola 4015 chip

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

Hey, all, the RK11-D contoller for the PDP-11 uses Motorola 4015 MSI chips on one of the boards (M7254), but I can't find out anything about them. Google didn't turn anything up, and the appendix in the RK11-D Maintenance Manual that has info about 'all' the MSI chips used in the RK11-D doesn't have this one. It appears to be a quad flop - anyone have more info? Thanks! Noel

7 years, 11 months

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Next 'stack' of computers to go, IBM p7's - not classics this time

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Pete Lancashire > Pak Mail is not cheap Actually, since they buy 'in bulk' from carriers, they are surprisingly reasonable; their quote to ship an H960 rack from Arizona to me was less than I was quoted by some carriers. Noel

7 years, 11 months

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Next 'stack' of computers to go, IBM p7's - not classics this time

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Yvan Janssens <ik at yvanj.me> > ... > I'm located at the other side of the planet. > Would PakMail work for that as well? Pakmail can _send_ to most countries (they can only do _pickups_ in the US and Canada, that I know of), but of course sending a large object a long way can be expensive. I don't know if they can do surface (i.e. boat) to destinations outside North America, or just air - check their Web-site. Noel

7 years, 11 months

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Sparc Laptops

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 13:08:51 -0400 > Subject: Re: Sparc Laptops > > I have a pretty cool DEC 486 laptop. I am unsure if they made a Pentium > laptop before they were bought out. > http://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/DECpc_433SLC/ > DECpc_433SLC_Premium_open2.jpg > b > > On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > I dream of owning an Alphabook. It?s a silly dream, but it?s one I dream > > anyway. > > > > I have a Sparcbook 3GS (I think that?s the model) somewhere. > > > > Zane > I have about 15 SPARC based lugables and laptops. Some are TRIgem/RDI Britelites that have an IPC/IPX/LX motherboard inside, three Voyagers, the rest are Tadpole SB2, SB3, SB3GX, and Ultrabooks. Michael Thompson

7 years, 11 months

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Sparc Laptops

by sales＠elecplus.com

Maybe not old enough? Not affiliated with seller, etc. WTS: (6) Like new Tadpole/RDI/Cycle UltraSPARC II/e Laptops UltraSPARC 500MHz CPU 2GB Memory 60GB Disk Complete and tested with AC Power Supply ?Make Offer george at datalease.com Best Regards, George Seldin Datalease Systems (714) 632-6986 x200 george at datalease.com Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com AOL IM elcpls --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

7 years, 11 months

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cctech Digest, Vol 44, Issue 10

by commodorejohn＠gmail.com

> Looking at modern hard disks, I'm unconvinced we could even mass-produce > something like that today. > > A 40mm radius is comparable to a 3.5" disk, which are generally 5,400-7,200 > RPM. 15,000 RPM is the fastest available, but those tend to be low-capacity and > expensive, and are often 2.5" drives with a huge heatsink. We could perhaps > rotate a very narrow smaller cylinder faster still but then the capacity > suffers further, and the seek time would start to dominate. I Am Not An Engineer(tm) but it seems to me that a taller cylinder should be less prone to wobbling on its axis than a flat disk, particularly if it's built at the scale of the drums I've seen at the CHM where there's room enough to really bolt that sucker down. Bit different than a 3.5" box with a stack of thin metal platters in it, I'd think.

7 years, 11 months

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how fast were drum memories?

by grif615＠mindspring.com

I wonder how the late generation paging disks (fixed head per track) like DG used in the 80's compared? -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Koning via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Sent: May 10, 2018 7:29 AM >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: how fast were drum memories? > >Drums were used as main memory in a number of early computers, and as secondary memory for a while longer. I wonder how fast real ones (actually constructed) managed to be. > >What prompted this question is reading an interesting document: https://ir.cwi.nl/pub/9603 (in Dutch), "Principles of electronic calculating machines, course notes February 1948" by Prof. A. van Wijngaarden at the Mathematical Center (now CWI) in Amsterdam. It's quite a fascinating short introduction into computing technology of that era. (One comment in the intro: "The field is new. At the moment, the Eniac is the only working machine..." -- probably not quite accurate given some classified machines, but not too far wrong.) > >The section on main memory describes a bunch of different technoly possibilities, one of them drum memory. He writes that a drum of 8 cm diameter (a bit over 3 inches) and "a couple of decimeters height" could hold maybe 100k bits, with a track pitch of "a few millimeters". So far so good. He goes on to suggest that such a drum might spin at 1000 revolutions per second, i.e., 60,000 rpm. That seems amazingly high. I could see it being physically possible for a drum of only 40 mm radius, but it sure doesn't sound easy. It's a good goal to strive for given that the logic, even in the days of vacuum tubes, can run at cycle times of just a couple of microseconds. As one more way to speed things up he suggests having multiple rows of read/write heads, where the addressed word would be picked up by whichever head sees it soonest. 10 rows and 60k rpm would give you 50 microseconds average access time which "even for a parallel computer would be a very attractive number". (Pages 17-18) > >I'm wondering what the reality of fast drum memories looked like, and whether anyone came even close to these numbers. Also, am I right in thinking they are at least in principle achievable? I know I could run the stress numbers, but haven't done so. > > paul >

7 years, 11 months

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S-100 systems appraisal

by nick＠burkitt.net

Back in the 1970s and 80s, my brother and I used to frequent computer swap meets in and around Orange County, CA. We both built S-100 systems >from the boards we bought there. I sold mine long ago, but my brother kept at it for several more years. Last December he passed away, and I discovered that he had kept his "big" system, and had put together a second as well. I'm interested to know people's thoughts on what they might be worth, both as complete systems, which I would prefer, and if sold as individual components. Everything is located in Santa Ana, CA. My brother was a fan of OASIS, so his main machine was switch-selectable to boot either that or CP/M (MP/M). It was almost certainly running when it was decommissioned (which would have been at least 20 years ago). OASIS Box Large (as in washing-machine) enclosure containing: Four 1/2-height, eight inch floppy drives, in enclosure. Two eight inch hard drives, probably 10 or 20 MB each, in enclosure. 18-slot CCS mainframe with these cards: CCS 2805, Rev. D, Terminator/Wallclock (terminator unpopulated) CCS 2830 Six/SIO, Assy No. 02830-00001, Rev. A CCS 2832 2 Rev. A, Winchester disk controller (2-board set). Module 9016-Rev02, 7-82. CCS 2422 Assy No. 02422-0001 Rev. B, Multimode Floppy Disk Controller. CCS 2066 Rev. B 64K Dynamic RAM, bank selectable CCS 2066 Rev. A 64K Dynamic RAM, bank selectable Cromemco 16KZ Cromemco 16KZ CCS 2068 Assy No. 02065-00001 Rev. C 64K dynamic Memory Computer System Resources (CSR) RAM 64D, modified w/external switch(es) CCS 2820 Assy. No. 02830-00001 System Processor CCS 2704 Assy No 02704-0000? Rev. ? Terminator Board The other system is just the mainframe. The manufacture's label is hidden by the floppies and I was too lazy to remove them to read it. Black Box 12-slot mainframe, with two 1/2-height 5.25 inch floppy drives (and room for two more). Includes these cards: CCS 2066 Assy. No. 2066-00001 Rev. A 64K Dynamic RAM, bank selectable CCS 2820 Rev. B System Processor CCS 2066 2.2K Rev. C 64K Dynamic RAM, bank selectable CCS 2066 Assy. No. 2066-00001 Rev. A 64K Dynamic RAM, bank selectable CCS 2066 2.2K Rev. B 64K Dynamic RAM, bank selectable CCS 2422 Assy No. 02422-0001 Rev. B, Multimode Floppy Disk Controller. CCS 2805, Rev. D, Terminator/Wallclock (terminator unpopulated) Konan SMC200 P-SMC-201-A Hard disk controller (no hard disk) CCS 2830 Six/SIO Rev. C CCS 2704 Assy No 02704-00001 Rev. C Terminator Board Separately, he also had: CCS 2520K Extender/terminator board kit, unassembled, in box with manual. Archive Corporation Sidewinder tape drive with two tapes. Cromemco 16KZ RAM board, with manual I have photos of everything. Thanks, -Nick

7 years, 11 months

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UUCP "bag" files

by cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net

Does anyone know why UUCP "bag" files are called "bag"? Thanks in advance. -- Grant. . . . unix || die

7 years, 11 months

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Old newsreader source code

by web＠loomcom.com

I'm experimenting with setting up UUCP and Usenet on a cluster of 3B2/400s, and I've quickly discovered that while it's trivial to find old source code for Usenet (B News and C News), it's virtually impossible to find source code for old news *readers*. I'm looking especially for nn, which was my go-to at the time. The oldest version I've found so far is nn 6.4, which is too big to compile on a 3B2/400. If I could get my hands on 6.1 or earlier, I think I'd have a good chance. I also found that trn 3.6 from 1994 works well enough, though it is fairly bloated. Earlier versions of that might be better. Does anyone have better Google-fu than I do? Or perhaps you've got earlier sources squirreled away? As an aside: If you were active on Usenet in 1989, what software were you using? -Seth -- Seth Morabito web at loomcom.com

7 years, 11 months

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Old core memory system.

by donald＠donaldwhittemore.com

My 360/65 panel has the control panel for Fabri-Tek add-on memory on the left side. http://www.myimagecollection.com/webpics/65panel.jpg

7 years, 11 months

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'90s era PC recommendation.

by seefriek＠gmail.com

Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have any recommendations for a '90s era PC that has PCI and > ISA slots? Ideally I'd like to have EISA slots too. ? At least I > think that's what I want. EISA is a nice-to-have, especially if you want to run multiple interfaces (much better irq handling than ISA) and/or higher speed stuff like FDDI, 100Mb enet, T-3/ATM, etc. Or you already have a cache of EISA cards. That said (and this is x86 specific, because there's a whole HPPA EISA world I don't know a lot about with all sorts of weird stuff): 1) PCI does a better job......usually. 2) EISA motherboards, desktop machines and fun/exotic network cards seem to be getting increasingly rare and ridiculously expensive, at least on evil auction sites. On the other hand, 10Mb EISA ethernet and scsi cards are chump change. 3) There are some interesting network things that just don't seem to have ever been made for EISA. For example, I've never heard of a fibre ethernet or HSSI card for EISA. 4) I think EISA limits you to 386 through PII CPUs (and probably PII as a PPro Overdrive upgrade outside of a server class machine). At least, I can't think of a P3 machine with EISA. YMMV. 5) The video card options are a bit thin on EISA. The Compaq QVision VGA is common as dirt (and just as dumb), but outside of that the ELSA Winner and ATI Mach32 are the only "real" graphics cards I seem to see often. There's probably some awful TIGA boards out there somewhere. Go PCI. I held on to a couple of Intel Xpress machines for the EISA bus. I doubt I'd pay the premium over a solid PCI/ISA machine. Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Depends on your CPU needs, but if you're willing to settle for P2/P3 era, > anything using the Intel i440BX or GX generally has very good ISA support. Yeah, but didn't the GX (and KX) have some pretty serious bugs until really late steppings? Same to a lesser extent with the NX. The BX (and FX) however was very reliable, as I recall. Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > I've long had a soft spot for the Pentium Pro. Yeah, me too. Great chip with a long useful life. I ran a couple of Intel PR440FX based machine for years past their expiration date because they kept up with the load and just wouldn't die. > A LONG time ago I saw an advertisement for a system that could accept six Pentium Pros. ALR Revolution server, probably. NCR and Corollary made 8-ways. > I /think/ it's a Compaq Deskpro XL 560 Great machine; built like a tank. Much better quality than the Xpress. I had an XL 6200 (200Mhz PPro) for many years and still regret getting rid of it. Lucky you you got yours back. The HP Vectra XU was also pretty nice.

7 years, 11 months

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FS: California Computer Systems Model 2210 S-100 system

by sellam.ismail＠gmail.com

Hello Folks. I've listed a nice California Computer Systems S-100 computer for sale. Details are here: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?63588-California-Computer-Systems… Thanks! Sellam P.S. If you're waiting on something from me, know that I have not forgotten about you, just took most of the last month to setup and plant the garden. I am getting back up to speed and will respond to everyone and pick up where we left off promptly, but feel free to nudge me if you somehow fall through the cracks and are neglected. Forgive me, and please know it is not intentional.

7 years, 12 months

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