16 May
2018
16 May
'18
10 p.m.
The following was sent to the list as an attachment so I am forwarding
it. Please don't reply to me but rather to Mr Parker. I have removed his
full address and phone number.
To:? classiccmp.org
Re: HP Series 9000 early 1980?s computer hardware
Hi,
I own several HP 9020 work stations along with peripheral gear
associated with that series. That gear includes several types of hard
drives and tape drives, standalone monitors and even an impact 132
character line printer. I also have a CPU, that I think is a 9000/550.
Not a work station but a more powerful CPU using the same technology as
the 9000/520. Plus cables and extra circuit boards used in that series
equipment. All of the stuff worked the last time it was fired up. I also
have the disks and tapes for the software shipped with that equipment.
I am getting along in years and rather leaving it to be trashed in the
future I am looking for a new home for the stuff. So can you suggest
someone who might be interested in it?
Sincerely,
Charles D. Parker
Howell, MI 48844
Chas.parker at comcast.net
--
Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence at ljw.me.uk
The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360
1:29 p.m.
I agree with Al. Chas approached the HP Computer Museum on this and as much as they would
be great to add to the collection, the shipping costs to Australia and the fact that the
museum is more in a consolidation mode than acquisition meant we weren?t able to take them
in.
Hopefully someone close by to him would like to have these units!
David Collins
Sent from my iPad
On 18 May 2018, at 1:35 am, Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Series 500 machines are quite rare. Someone should save these.
On 5/16/18 10:00 PM, Lawrence Wilkinson via
cctalk wrote:
I own several HP 9020 work stations along with peripheral gear associated with that
series.
1:48 p.m.
actually we are lacking 9000 gear for smecc. where is it located? we are in AZ...
HP Computer Museum overseas is awesome... The site has saved us mauna time with the
excellent documents there.
ed#
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Thursday, May 17, 2018 David Collins via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I agree with Al. Chas approached the HP Computer Museum on this and as much as they would
be great to add to the collection, the shipping costs to Australia and the fact that the
museum is more in a consolidation mode than acquisition meant we weren?t able to take them
in.
Hopefully someone close by to him would like to have these units!
David Collins
Sent from my iPad
On 18 May 2018, at 1:35 am, Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Series 500 machines are quite rare. Someone should save these.
On 5/16/18 10:00 PM, Lawrence Wilkinson via
cctalk wrote:
I own several HP 9020 work stations along with peripheral gear associated with that
series.
3:15 p.m.
The 9000 Series 500 is very different from later 9000s.
I don?t think there more than one speed of CPU, although there was an early and later CPU
with the later CPU having a floating-point unit onboard. What you get out of a 9000
Series 550 over a Series 520 (aka 9020) is mostly more I/O slots, as I recall the 9020 had
a short I/O cage. But I think the processor cage is the same size and can host about the
same sets of cards.
The CPU is a 32-bit stack machine, very like a wide classic-3000, and there can be up to
three CPUs in a system. There is an IOP that front-ends a CIO-type I/O bus (same bus and
some of the same peripheral cards used in early PA-RISC systems) and I think you can have
two IOPs in a system.
HP-UX for them is very interesting from a historical perspective in that the Unix kernel
is a complete rewrite. It is hosted on top of HP?s ?SUN OS? operating system (there is
also a single-user BASIC system for the 9020, also hosted on SUN OS) and written in HP?s
MODCAL language. The filesystem is HP?s Structured Directory Format. The userland is
largely made up of ports from AT&T System III (and later System V) and 4BSD.
So when it is running HP-UX it looks like Unix, with some exceptions. One is that if you
open and read a directory from your C program there are no entries for . (current) or ..
(parent) directories; these are done in SDF?s directory entry and not present in the
actual Unix directory. Yes, ls -a shows them: it is faking them to make it look more like
Unix!
-Frank McConnell (supported Wollongong?s TCP/IP on these)
On May 17, 2018, at 13:48, Ed Sharpe wrote:
actually we are lacking 9000 gear for smecc. where is it located? we are in AZ...
HP Computer Museum overseas is awesome... The site has saved us mauna time with the
excellent documents there.
ed#
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Thursday, May 17, 2018 David Collins via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I agree with Al. Chas approached the HP Computer Museum on this and as much as they would
be great to add to the collection, the shipping costs to Australia and the fact that the
museum is more in a consolidation mode than acquisition meant we weren?t able to take them
in.
Hopefully someone close by to him would like to have these units!
David Collins
Sent from my iPad
> On 18 May 2018, at 1:35 am, Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
>
> Series 500 machines are quite rare. Someone should save these.
>
>> On 5/16/18 10:00 PM, Lawrence Wilkinson via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> I own several HP 9020 work stations along with peripheral gear associated with
that series.
>
>
3:48 p.m.
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Frank McConnell via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
HP-UX for them is very interesting from a historical perspective in that
the Unix kernel is a complete rewrite. It is hosted on top of HP?s ?SUN
OS? operating system (there is also a single-user BASIC system for the
9020, also hosted on SUN OS) and written in HP?s MODCAL language. The
filesystem is HP?s Structured Directory Format. The userland is largely
made up of ports from AT&T System III (and later System V) and 4BSD.
HP-UX did a fairly extensive kernel rewrite, but implemented substantially
the same system call interface. This was apparent in a number of ways (the
binary format was different from other machines in ways I can't quite
recall, not quite COFF). They did ship mostly programs from BSD and SysV,
though through quirks of the legal minefield of the early days of Unix,
they did it under their System III license, at least in the early days...
Don't know if that ever changed to a System V license or not since they
didn't have a System V kernel...
So when it is running HP-UX it looks like Unix, with
some exceptions. One
is that if you open and read a directory from your C program there are no
entries for . (current) or .. (parent) directories; these are done in SDF?s
directory entry and not present in the actual Unix directory. Yes, ls -a
shows them: it is faking them to make it look more like Unix!
I think they must have fixed this, or it wasn't true for readdir(). I
ported the OI toolkit to HP-UX once upon a time and the file dialog boxes
just worked, and we had . and .. in there...
-Frank McConnell (supported Wollongong?s TCP/IP on
these)
Danger! The Sea Monster Comes!
Warner
On May 17, 2018, at 13:48, Ed Sharpe wrote:
actually we are lacking 9000 gear for smecc. where is it located? we are
in AZ...
HP Computer Museum overseas is awesome... The
site has saved us mauna
time with the excellent documents there.
ed#
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Thursday, May 17, 2018 David Collins via cctalk <
cctalk at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
I agree with Al. Chas approached the HP Computer
Museum on this and as
much as they would be great to add to the collection, the
shipping costs to
Australia and the fact that the museum is more in a consolidation mode than
acquisition meant we weren?t able to take them in.
Hopefully someone close by to him would like to have these units!
David Collins
Sent from my iPad
> On 18 May 2018, at 1:35 am, Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
>
> Series 500 machines are quite rare. Someone should save these.
>
>> On 5/16/18 10:00 PM, Lawrence Wilkinson via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> I own several HP 9020 work stations along with peripheral gear
associated
with that series.
>
>
4:56 p.m.
Is HP UX that it? runs similar? to what is on the HP INTEGRAL ?
?
In a message dated 5/17/2018 3:48:52 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
?
HP-UX did a fairly extensive kernel rewrite, but implemented substantially
the same system call interface. This was apparent in a number of ways (the
binary format was different from other machines in ways I can't quite
recall, not quite COFF). They did ship mostly programs from BSD and SysV,
though through quirks of the legal minefield of the early days of Unix,
they did it under their System III license, at least in the early days...
Don't know if that ever changed to a System V license or not since they
didn't have a System V kernel...
8:10 a.m.
Thanks? for the? update. I do not have? much knowledge on the HP-UX? as? ?I spent user
time? on the? HP-3000? MPE? side . (well and? before that? HP2000 and a little HP-1000 and
PDP-8)?
?
Ed#
?
?
In a message dated 5/18/2018 7:34:58 AM US Mountain Standard Time, spacewar at gmail.com
writes:
?
On Thu, May 17, 2018, 17:57 Ed Sharpe via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Is HP UX that it? runs similar? to what is on the HP INTEGRAL ?
?
No, the fake-Unix-on-HP-Sun-OS HP-UX was only on the 9000/500 series. All the other HP-UX
versions are "normal".
?
?
3:03 p.m.
On May 17, 2018, at 15:48, Warner Losh wrote:
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Frank McConnell via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
HP-UX for them is very interesting from a historical perspective in that the Unix kernel
is a complete rewrite. It is hosted on top of HP?s ?SUN OS? operating system (there is
also a single-user BASIC system for the 9020, also hosted on SUN OS) and written in HP?s
MODCAL language. The filesystem is HP?s Structured Directory Format. The userland is
largely made up of ports from AT&T System III (and later System V) and 4BSD.
HP-UX did a fairly extensive kernel rewrite, but implemented substantially the same
system call interface. This was apparent in a number of ways (the binary format was
different from other machines in ways I can't quite recall, not quite COFF). They did
ship mostly programs from BSD and SysV, though through quirks of the legal minefield of
the early days of Unix, they did it under their System III license, at least in the early
days... Don't know if that ever changed to a System V license or not since they
didn't have a System V kernel...
I am thinking HP did at least four flavors of HP-UX.
First was HP-UX for the first-generation 9000s that became the Series 500. I think it
took System III as a baseline and reimplemented in MODCAL, and later added System V
support.
Second was HP-UX for the 9836 (later Series 200). That is a 68010 system and I think was
a System III port.
Third was HP-UX for Series 300. These are 680x0 systems for x>=2 and I think their
HP-UX was a System III port later upgraded to System V.
Fourth was HP-UX for Series 800. These are PA-RISC minis and I think their HP-UX was a
4BSD port with System V features for compatibility with series 300.
I?m not sure where the Integral fit in. That was a single-user 68000, probably closest to
series 200, with no MMU.
So when it is running HP-UX it looks like Unix, with
some exceptions. One is that if you open and read a directory from your C program there
are no entries for . (current) or .. (parent) directories; these are done in SDF?s
directory entry and not present in the actual Unix directory. Yes, ls -a shows them: it
is faking them to make it look more like Unix!
I think they must have fixed this, or it wasn't true for readdir(). I ported the OI
toolkit to HP-UX once upon a time and the file dialog boxes just worked, and we had . and
.. in there?
Were you really working with a Series 500? I don?t think anyone ever ported X libraries
to them. No usable TCP/IP stack on them unless you bought the Wollongong product. (I am
thinking HP had one for it too, for their NS/9000 products, but it was IEEE 802.3 framing
with 802.2 LLC header and not interoperable with Ethernet II.)
Series 300/400 (Motorola 680x0 for x >= 2) ran an HP-UX that I think is a System V
derived kernel, or at least the later releases were, with a 4BSD TCP stack. Series
800/700 ran an HP-UX that I think was a new port from 4BSD, but with System V features
added for compatibility with the Series 300.
-Frank McConnell (supported Wollongong?s TCP/IP on
these)
Danger! The Sea Monster Comes!
Yup, my real thing there was supporting Wollongong?s WIN/TCP for MPE/V, which wasn?t
really Wollongong?s TCP/IP but was instead Telnet, FTP, and SMTP clients and services on
top of HP?s NetIPC TCP API. Telnet and FTP were mostly 4BSD ports to CCS C/3000 and
NetIPC and MPE.
(And in this message, y?all are getting all the wonder of Apple Mail promoting characters
to Unicode and the horrible Gmail quoting with spaces. I hope it?s understandable.)
-Frank McConnell
10:39 a.m.
New subject: HP 9000 model 300 (was: HP Series 9000 early 1980’s computer hardware)
Is there interest here in the HP 9000 Series 300? I know nothing about them, but there is
one in the AS-IS section at the local computer recycler (RePC in Seattle) for $40.
alan
On May 17, 2018, at 3:15 PM, Frank McConnell via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The 9000 Series 500 is very different from later 9000s.
I don?t think there more than one speed of CPU, although there was an early and later CPU
with the later CPU having a floating-point unit onboard. What you get out of a 9000
Series 550 over a Series 520 (aka 9020) is mostly more I/O slots, as I recall the 9020 had
a short I/O cage. But I think the processor cage is the same size and can host about the
same sets of cards.
The CPU is a 32-bit stack machine, very like a wide classic-3000, and there can be up to
three CPUs in a system. There is an IOP that front-ends a CIO-type I/O bus (same bus and
some of the same peripheral cards used in early PA-RISC systems) and I think you can have
two IOPs in a system.
HP-UX for them is very interesting from a historical perspective in that the Unix kernel
is a complete rewrite. It is hosted on top of HP?s ?SUN OS? operating system (there is
also a single-user BASIC system for the 9020, also hosted on SUN OS) and written in HP?s
MODCAL language. The filesystem is HP?s Structured Directory Format. The userland is
largely made up of ports from AT&T System III (and later System V) and 4BSD.
So when it is running HP-UX it looks like Unix, with some exceptions. One is that if you
open and read a directory from your C program there are no entries for . (current) or ..
(parent) directories; these are done in SDF?s directory entry and not present in the
actual Unix directory. Yes, ls -a shows them: it is faking them to make it look more like
Unix!
-Frank McConnell (supported Wollongong?s TCP/IP on these)
On May 17, 2018, at 13:48, Ed Sharpe wrote:
actually we are lacking 9000 gear for smecc. where is it located? we are in AZ...
HP Computer Museum overseas is awesome... The site has saved us mauna time with the
excellent documents there.
ed#
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Thursday, May 17, 2018 David Collins via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I agree with Al. Chas approached the HP Computer Museum on this and as much as they would
be great to add to the collection, the shipping costs to Australia and the fact that the
museum is more in a consolidation mode than acquisition meant we weren?t able to take them
in.
Hopefully someone close by to him would like to have these units!
David Collins
Sent from my iPad
> On 18 May 2018, at 1:35 am, Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
>
> Series 500 machines are quite rare. Someone should save these.
>
>> On 5/16/18 10:00 PM, Lawrence Wilkinson via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> I own several HP 9020 work stations along with peripheral gear associated with
that series.
>
>
10:49 a.m.
New subject: HP 9000 model 300 (was: HP Series 9000 early 1980’s computer hardware)
What is? all with the basic? box?? thanks ed#
?
In a message dated 5/18/2018 10:39:45 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
?
HP 9000 Series 300
11 a.m.
New subject: HP 9000 series 300 (was: HP Series 9000 early 1980’s computer hardware)
I know so little about them that I called it a model 300 :)
On the back, the bottom, wider slot was open, the two slots above occupied, and the upper
two had blanking plates.
The lower of the occupied slots had lots of connectors, but I don?t recall what. The other
occupied slot had just a HP-IB connector.
alan
On May 18, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
What is all with the basic box? thanks ed#
In a message dated 5/18/2018 10:39:45 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
HP 9000 Series 300
12:13 p.m.
New subject: HP 9000 series 300
On 5/18/18 11:00 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
On the back, the bottom, wider slot was open, the two
slots above occupied, and the upper two had blanking plates.
the empty slot is where the CPU goes.
the upper two are 'DIO' slots
more than you ever wanted to know is at http://bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/9000_300
the most common 300 series that show up are the 310/320
2194
days inactive
2195
days old
14 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
aperry＠snowmoose.com -
bear＠typewritten.org -
couryhouse＠aol.com -
davidkcollins2＠gmail.com -
fmc＠reanimators.org -
imp＠bsdimp.com -
ljw-cctech＠ljw.me.uk -
spacewar＠gmail.com