- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Text encoding Babel. Was Re: George Keremedjiev

by guykd＠optusnet.com.au

At 10:52 PM 25/11/2018 -0700, you wrote: >> Then adds a plain ASCII space 0x20 just to be sure. > >I don't think it's adding a plain ASCII space 0x20 just to be sure. >Looking at the source of the message, I see =C2=A0, which is the UTF-8 >representation followed by the space. My MUA that understands UTF-8 >shows that "=C2=A0 " translates to " ". Further, "=C2=A0 =C2=A0" >translates to " ". I was speaking poetically. Perhaps "the mail software he uses was written by morons" is clearer. >Some of the reading that I did indicates that many things, HTML >included, use white space compaction (by default), which means that >multiple white space characters are reduced to a single white space >character. Oh yes, tell me about the html 'there is no such thing as hard formatting and you can't have any even when you want it' concept. Thank you Tim Berners Lee. http://everist.org/NobLog/20130904_Retarded_ideas_in_comp_sci.htm http://everist.org/NobLog/20140427_p-term_is_retarded.htm > So, when Ed wants multiple white spaces, his MUA has to do >something to state that two consecutive spaces can't be compacted. >Hence the non-breaking space. Except that 'non-breaking space' is mostly about inhibiting line wrap at that word gap. But anyway, there's little point trying to psychoanalyze the writers of that software. Probably involved pointy-headed bosses. >As stated in another reply, I don't think ASCII was ever trying to be >the Babel fish. (Thank you Douglas Adams.) Of course not. It was for American English only. This is one of the major points of failure in the history of information processing. >> Takeaway: Ed, one space is enough. I don't know how you got the idea >> people might miss seeing a single space, and so you need to type two or >> more. > >I wondered if it wasn't a typo or keyboard sensitivity issue. I >remember I had to really slow down the double click speed for my grandpa >(R.I.P.) so that he could use the mouse. Maybe some users actuate keys >slowly enough that the computer thinks that it's repeated keys. ??\_(???)_/?? Well now he's flaunting it in his latest posts. Never mind. :) >> And since plain ASCII is hard-formatted, extra spaces are NOT ignored >> and make for wider spacing between words. > >It seems as if you made an assumption. Just because the underlying >character set is ASCII (per RFC 821 & 822, et al) does not mean that the >data that they are carrying is also ASCII. As is evident by the >Content-Type: header stating the character set of UTF-8. Containing extended Unicode character sets via UTF-8, doesn't make it a non-hard-formatted medium. In ASCII a space is a space, and multi-spaces DON'T collapse. White space collapse is a feature of html, and whether an email is html or not is determined by the sending utility. >Especially when textual white space compression does exactly that, >ignore extra white spaces. > >> Which looks very odd, even if your mail utility didn't try to >> do something 'special' with your unusual user input. As you see, this IS NOT HTML, since those extra spaces and your diagram below would have collapsed if it was html. Also saving it as text and opening in a plain text ed or hex editor absolutely reveals what it is. >I frequently use multiple spaces with ASCII diagrams. > >+------+ >| This | >| is | >| a | >| box | >+------+ >> Btw, I changed the subject line, because this is a wider topic. I've been >> meaning to start a conversation about the original evolution of ASCII, >> and various extensions. Related to a side project of mine. > >I'm curious to know more about your side project. Hmm... the problem is it's intended to be serious, but is still far from exposure-ready. So if I talk about it now, I risk having specific terms I've coined in the doco (including the project name) getting meme-jammed or trademarked by others. The plan is to release it all in one go, eventually. Definitely will be years before that happens, if ever. However, here's a cut-n-paste (in plain text) of a section of the Introduction (html with diags.) ---------- Almost always, a first attempt at some unfamiliar, complex task produces a less than optimal result. Only with the knowledge gained from actually doing a new thing, can one look back and see the mistakes made. It usually takes at least one more cycle of doing it over from scratch to produce something that is optimal for the needs of the situation. Sometimes, especially where deep and subtle conceptual innovations are involved, it takes many iterations. Human development of computing science (including information coding schemes) has been effectively a 'first time effort', since we kept on developing new stuff built on top of earlier work. We almost never went back to the roots and rebuilt everything, applying insights gained from the many mistakes made. In reviewing the evolution of information coding schemes since very early stages such as the Morse code, telegraph signal recording, typewriters, etc, through early computing systems, mass data storage and file systems, computer languages from Assembler through Compilers and Interpreters, and so on, several points can be identified at which early (inadequate) concepts became embedded then used as foundations for further developments. This made the original concepts seem like fundamentals, difficult to question (because they are underlying principles for much more complex later work), and virtually impossible to alter (due to the vast amounts of code dependent on them.) And yet, when viewed in hindsight many of the early concepts are seriously flawed. They effectively hobbled all later work dependent on them. Examples of these pivotal conceptual errors: Defects in the ASCII code table. This was a great improvement at the time, but fails to implement several utterly essential concepts. The lack of these concepts in the character coding scheme underlying virtually all information processing since the 1960s, was unfortunate. Just one (of many) bad consequences has been the proliferation of 'patch-up' text coding schemes such as proprietry document formats (MS Word for eg), postscript, pdf, html (and its even more nutty academia-gone-mad variants like XML), UTF-8, unicode and so on. [pic] This is a scan from the 'Recommended USA Standard Code for Information Interchange (USASCII) X3.4 - 1967' The Hex A-F on rows 10-15, added here. Hexadecimal notation was not commonly in use in the 1960s. Fig. ___ The original ASCII definition table. ASCII's limitations were so severe that even the text (ie ASCII) program code source files used by programmers to develop literally everything else in computing science, had major shortcomings and inconveniences. A few specific examples of ASCII's flaws: Missing concept of control vs data channel separation. And so we needed the "< >" syntax of html, etc. Inability to embed meta-data about the text in standard programatically accessible form. Absense of anything related to text adornments, ie italics, underline and bold. The most basic essentials of expressive text, completely ignored. Absense of any provision for creative typography. No awareness of fonts, type sizes, kerning, etc. Lack of logical 'new line', 'new paragraph' and 'new page' codes. Inadequate support of basic formatting elements such as tabular columns, text blocks, etc. Even the extremely fundamental and essential concept of 'tab columns' is impropperly implemented in ASCII, hence almost completely dysfunctional. No concept of general extensible-typed functional blocks within text, with the necessary opening and closing delimiters. Missing symmetry of quote characters. (A consequence of the absense of typed functional blocks.) No provision for code commenting. Hence the gaggle of comment delimiting styles in every coding language since. (Another consequence of the absense of typed functional blocks.) No awareness of programatic operations such as Inclusion, Variable substitution, Macros, Indirection, Introspection, Linking, Selection, etc. No facility for embedding of multi-byte character and binary code sequences. Missing an informational equivalent to the pure 'zero' symbol of number systems. A specific "There is no information here" symbol. (The NUL symbol has other meanings.) This lack has very profound implications. No facility to embed multiple data object types within text streams. No facility to correlate coded text elements to associated visual typographical elements within digital images, AV files, and other representational constructs. This has crippled efforts to digitize the cultural heritage of humankind. Non-configurable geometry of text flow, when representing the text in 2D planes. (Or 3D space for that matter.) Many of the 32 'control codes' (characters 0x00 to 0x1F) were allocated to hardware-specific uses that have since become obsolete and fallen into disuse. Leaving those codes as a wasted resource. ASCII defined only a 7-bit (128 codes) space, rather than the full 8-bit (256 codes) space available with byte sized architectures. This left the 'upper' 128 code page open to multiple chaotic, conflicting usage interpretations. For example the IBM PC code page symbol sets (multiple languages and graphics symbols, in pre-Unicode days) and the UTF-8 character bit-size extensions. Inability to create files which encapsulate the entirety of the visual appearance of the physical object or text which the file represents, without dependence on any external information. Even plain ASCII text files depend on the external definition of the character glyphs that the character codes represent. This can be a problem if files are intended to serve as long term historical records, potentially for geological timescales. This problem became much worse with the advent of the vast Unicode glyph set, and typset formats such as PDF. The PDF 'archival' format (in which all referenced fonts must be defined in the file) is a step in the right direction ? except that format standard is still proprietary and not available for free. ---------- Sorry to be a tease. Soon I'd like to have a discussion about the functional evolution of the various ASCII control codes, and how they are used (or disused) now. But am a bit too busy atm to give it adequate attention. Guy

7 years, 4 months

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Working Ardent Titan on Youtube

by camiel.vanderhoeven＠vmssoftware.com

Now that my mousepad problem has been solved, and I have a fully working Ardent Titan with some interesting software on it ? the bundled version of MATLAB, and BIOGRAF, a molecular modeling application ? I decided to make a short video about this system in which I show the hardware and demonstrate some of the software: https://youtu.be/tMSnnt3iFz0 For those who haven?t heard of the system; the 1987 Ardent Titan (later renamed the Stardent 1500) was the first system that combined vector processors (as in a Cray-like architecture) and a graphics engine on the same backplane, and was the highest-performing graphics supercomputer for a short while. In the end, however, a longer than planned time to market and a forced merger with Stellar Computer caused the premature demise of the company. Cleve Moler, the inventor of MATLAB, worked at Ardent for three years, which is one of the reasons the Titan was the only computer ever to come with MATLAB as part of its bundled software. As I found out later ? after creating this video ? the version of MATLAB on the Titan was unique, because it included a ?render? command, which would plot a 3D surface using the Dor? graphics library. On other platforms, MATLAB could only render mesh plots. It wasn?t until 1992 that the mainstream version of MATLAB gained 3D surface rendering. Cleve wrote a number of articles on his blog about the Titan, one of which (https://blogs.mathworks.com/cleve/2013/12/09/the-ardent-titan-part-2/) describes how the Titan was used to create a video of a vibrating L-shaped membrane. With a little help from Cleve, I?m trying to recreate this video. A first effort ? which isn?t quite right yet ? can be seen here: https://youtu.be/-XeabDqRAG8 I hope some of you enjoy these! Camiel

7 years, 5 months

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A New Batch from Sellam's Warehouse

by sellam.ismail＠gmail.com

It's been quite a hiatus, but I'm finally back with more! Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer Advantech I.Q. Unlimited Computer Heath ZKB-2 keyboard EMP MM-102 Manual Mini Modem Lexicon LEX-12 Direct/Acoustically Coupled Modem Univsersal Data Systems 103 LP Modem (boxed) Univsersal Data Systems 103 LP Modem Morrow Designs Micro Decision HP 9111A Graphics Tablet SyQuest SQ3270S Cartirdge Disk Drive IBM Type 3363 Optical WORM Drive Macintosh SE FDHD Macintosh PowerBook Duo 2300c Apple M1242 Adjustable Keyboard Electomechanical keyboard Pertec Computer Corp. Univac Keypunch Keyboard HP Thermal Printer Paper pack HP 9816 HP 110 Portable w/9114A, 2225B and original HP carry case Anderson Jacobsen AJ 1233 Acoustically Coupled Modem Ven-Tel MD212 Plus Modem Mass Micro Systems Dual 45MB SCSI Removable Hard Drive Novation Cat acoustically coupled modem DEC DF02 Modem IBM 5140 PC Convertible Iomega The Bernoulli Box II PC2/50 Adapter Kit Zenith SuperSport Lap Top Computer Zenith SuperSport 286 Portable Computer Compaq Armada 1500 series laptop prototype Compaq LTE 5000 series laptop prototype The New Arrivals Niche is your guide to the goodies: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...72371&range=A1 <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I53wxarLHlNmlPVf_HJ5oMKuab4zrApI_hi…> Please contact me directly by e-mail if you want to inquire about something: sellam.ismail at gmail.com I apologize for my absence, I got tied up with life issues. To those who are waiting on me to send them something, I did not forget about you and will be sending you an update via e-mail. If I owe you something and you have not heard from me then by all means please contact me ASAP so I may rectify that. Thanks! Sellam

7 years, 5 months

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Windows Accessibility Settings. RE: George Keremedjiev

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

Just in case anyone isn't aware, and who gets duplicate characters input because they have some un-steadiness, and are using a Windows/10 PC (I think 7 as well) there are some options in in the "Ease of Access" settings "Filter Keys" settings => "bounce keys" that may help with your typing. These set a configurable delay that will ignore repeated keypresses for a very short period of time. The default is 0.5 of second but its configurable. You need to enable "Filter Keys" to see the "Bounce Keys" option. There is also a "slow keys" option. I hope this helps, and I am sorry if you knew this already and it doesn't .... Dave G4UGM > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of ED SHARPE via > cctalk > Sent: 26 November 2018 18:30 > To: lproven at gmail.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: George Keremedjiev > > i use email i use and suggest you use a delete key. no loss no gain... > > > In a message dated 11/26/2018 11:16:07 AM US Mountain Standard Time, > lproven at gmail.com writes: > > > On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 at 17:54, ED SHARPE < couryhouse at aol.com> wrote: > > > > pay attention it us,probaby my hand which adds,Xtra spaces as stated > > before, please feel free to use the delete key > > Are you saying that you have motor control problems, such as Parkinson's > Disease or something? If so, I am really sorry -- but you have never said that > before, to my recollection. > > But you have never commented to anyone who has asked why you don't > switch to a proper local email client, which would fix the quoting and so on. > Do you not have access to your own computer, or something? If so I am sure > someone could give you a machine, if that would help... > > -- > Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

7 years, 5 months

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George Keremedjiev

by couryhouse＠aol.com

i use email i? use and suggest? ?you? ?use a delete key.? no? loss no? gain... In a message dated 11/26/2018 11:16:07 AM US Mountain Standard Time, lproven at gmail.com writes: ? On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 at 17:54, ED SHARPE < couryhouse at aol.com> wrote: > > pay attention it us,probaby my hand which adds,Xtra spaces as stated before, > please feel free to use the delete key Are you saying that you have motor control problems, such as Parkinson's Disease or something? If so, I am really sorry -- but you have never said that before, to my recollection. But you have never commented to anyone who has asked why you don't switch to a proper local email client, which would fix the quoting and so on. Do you not have access to your own computer, or something? If so I am sure someone could give you a machine, if that would help... -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

7 years, 5 months

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DEC bits wanted

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

Folks, I have a VAXStation 4000/VLC which I would like to try to use as a workstation. I have a keyboard and mouse, but can't find any connector for the video port in the UK, and the only thing I can find in the USA is this:- https://www.ebay.com/itm/232664832774 which comes in at around $100 by the time I and import charges, VAT etc and its rather more than I wanted to pay. Dave Wade G4UGM & EA7KAE <p.s. Another keyboard would be useful, the one I have is from a VT terminal. Would also like a TK70 to fill the hole in the VAX/4000 300.>

7 years, 5 months

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Working Ardent Titan on Youtube

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Camiel Vanderhoeven > I have a fully working Ardent Titan with some interesting software on > it - the bundled version of MATLAB, and BIOGRAF, a molecular modeling > application Neat! Excellent! Do you have the source for any/all of the software on it? Noel

7 years, 5 months

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Bill Godbout

by aek＠bitsavers.org

"drrt1968 at gmail.com" posted on AFC this morning that Bill died in the Camp fire in Northern California on Thursday. Has anyone else heard about this?

7 years, 5 months

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DEC Professional 350 ROMs

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello, this is what I found: These ROMS can be read on an EPROM programmer as an MC68766 part, as long as the programer strobes CS or OE when reading each consecutive address. Most will do that. They can be directly replaced with pin-compatible EPROM MC68766 or MCM68766C35 but these are obsolete though easily available as surplus parts for about 10 dollars each. The SCM90448C might also be a direct replacement. Modern EPROM 27HC641 aka M27HC641 can be used and is pin compatible, as long as you cook the data before burning, because A10 and A12 (if I remember correctly) are swapped. Hope this helps. Andrea

7 years, 5 months

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TCL Terminal

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

Folks, While sorting through my pile of 3270 terminals I came across a little plastic box with 2 x 9-pin rs232, 1x25pin printer port and one VGA port. On taking the lid off it seems it's a terminal for NYCE made by TCL but I can find no info on the net. I put a few pics of it here:- https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ag4BJfE5B3onkY8FlfveCwr73J5HIw I can't seem to get into ant set-up menus, and I am sure it used to show these, Does any one have any documents on these? Searching on google is hampered by the fact there is a TCL language. Dave Wade G4UGM & EA7KAE

7 years, 5 months

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Removing PVA from a CRT

by aperry＠snowmoose.com

I recently picked up a Rainbow 100. The PVA between the safety glass and the CRT on VR201 that came with it has broken down and failed badly. I have seen videos and read about removing the safety glass, cleaning out the PVA, and reattaching and resealing the safety glass. All that I have seen basically sticks the safety glass on at its edges and leaves a void where the PVA had been. It seems to me that the PVA was providing some implosion protection. Would it work to replace the PVA and attach the safety glass to the tube with an optically clear adhesive sheet? I have seen that this exists, but have never used it before. Also, I have never worked on a CRT before. I am trying to find a local person who can observe me and stop me from doing something stupid. If I can?t find someone, what am I more likely to do wrong? How can I be sure I discharged it before touching it? Finally, a VR201 specific question. I booted the Rainbow over the weekend and, looking through broken-down PVA, I could see the Rainbow has booted and I could enter DOS commands. I could also see white retrace lines. What is the likely cause of that on a 35-year-old CRT? alan

7 years, 5 months

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Sun Optical Mouse and pad

by technoid6502＠gmail.com

I had a Sparcstation 4/330 with optical mouse, without the pad. Of course I wanted one, and eventually found one, but in the interim, I did what an old hack suggested and printed myself a grid on paper. Works peachy. The spacing of the grid will determine the tracking speed of the mouse. Graph paper works if you get a fine grid. Try .5cm. Just to get you on the road til' your pad gets to you. My old hack told me they had a problem with the pads disappearing and had a file on their network for folks to just print themselves one for the day. Jeff

7 years, 5 months

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UniBone - access DEC PDP-11 UNIBUS under Linux

by j_hoppe＠t-online.de

Guys, I'm about to finish another project: "UniBone" - a Linux-to-UNIBUS bridge, based on the BeagleBone Black. It is supposed to be a development platform for device emulation. At the moment it can emulate memory, emulate an RL11 controller with 4 RL drives attached, and act as UNIBUS hardware test adapter. There are some web pages at http://retrocmp.com/projects/unibone And I'll show it on VCFE.CH in Zurich on Nov 24/25,? plugged into a PDP-11/05. Enjoy, Joerg

7 years, 5 months

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DEC Professional 350 ROMs

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I have some ROMs from two DEC Pro 350s I want to image. My programmer fails to identify them automatically. From the technical manual it would seem that they are two 8K ROMS in a DIP24 package. I have tried to pick some other model of ROM and read them, but I am not convinced I am reading them correctly as a result (top 4K all 1s). Here are the markings. On one pair the ROMs are Motorola and one of them is marked LM8450 254E4 SCM 90448C ID8402 On the other pair one of them is marked: /B8250 MM51264KXL/N 23-115E4-00 TP-03 And the other is marked: Mostek 8252 MK36C25N-5 23-116E4-00 TP01 I know that in all cases the last line is just an ID for the actual contents and the last two have a DEC part number in the penultimate line. I have found that using Motorola MCM68766 seems to read the ROMs from one of the machines and I don't get verification errors when I try to read them back again a few times, although the contents don't seem to have any recognisable strings. Using Motorola MCM2716 gave me fewer bytes (of course), but there seemed to be recognisable strings too. The other pair of ROM chips from the second machine always give verification errors. I don't know if they are bad, or if it is just timing problems given that I am not using the right parameters for the ROM chip in the first place. Can anyone point me at a datasheet that might describe these ROMs, or at least what they might be equivalent to so I can set my programmer accordingly? Regards Rob

7 years, 5 months

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Looking for optical grid mouse pad

by camiel.vanderhoeven＠vmssoftware.com

Hello everyone, A week ago, I took possession of a second Ardent Titan graphics supercomputer, and unlike the other Titan, this one is almost complete. There is one tiny bit missing, and that is a mouse pad. The mouse used with this systems is a Mouse Systems M4 variant (M4Q), and it does not appear to be a normal serial mouse. So, if anyone has one of those reflective mousepads with a grid of fine blue and grey lines that they don?t need, I?d be very happy to have it. I have tried to print my own mousepad, but the mouse only works in the y direction on it. For those who want to know, the Titan is outfitted as follows: 2 x Titan P3 vector processors (using a MIPS R3000 for scalar operations) 2 x 64 MB main memory Extended G2 Graphics 3 Maxtor 760 MB disks QIC-120 tapedrive 19? trinitron monitor with stereo bezel and 3d glasses Keyboard, mouse, knob box Titan OS 4.2 installed (plus version 3.0, 4.1, and 4.2 installation tapes) Dore, AVS, and PHIGS+ graphics environments Vectorizing FORTRAN compiler with LINPACK, EISPACK, and FFT libraries Matlab-Pro 3.5 (the Titan was the only computer ever that had Matlab as part of its bundled programs) Biodesign Biograf 3.0 molecular modeling application All bits and pieces, and all software appears to work. Camiel

7 years, 5 months

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Teletype cheap

by billdegnan＠gmail.com

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Teletype-Machine-Model-3320-3WA-Teletypewriter-AS-… b

7 years, 5 months

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Teletype cheap

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 07:49 PM 11/24/2018, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: >I suggested a shallow box does not have to be so tall. > >On Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 7:56 PM Steve Malikoff via cctalk < >cctalk at classiccmp.org wrote: > >> >> > I wonder if anyone made a 3d printer file for a 33 chad box? >> > Dwight >> >> ...working on it :) I believe John Toebes was talking about 3D printing a chad box on the Greenkeys list a month or so ago. - John

7 years, 5 months

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Bluebox AVR boards available

by dave＠661.org

I've finished my work on designing and debugging a PCB to go with my AVR-based bluebox program. Read about it and buy one at https://661.org/proj/bluebox/. This project implements a bluebox in C on AVR microcontrollers. This project is roughly a reimplementation of Don Froulas's PIC-based bluebox, which was written in PIC assembly. The resulting compiled program is intended to be loaded into one of the following circuit boards. Currently the code implements a bluebox, silver box (DTMF dialer with 4th column), redbox, greenbox, and 2600hz pulse dialer. There are 12 memory locations of 41 keystrokes each. -- David Griffith dave at 661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

7 years, 5 months

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What is this?

by cctalk＠emailtoilet.com

Don't think it is IBM. Apparently high temp ICs due to the heat sink housing. No idea what it is. http://www.myimagecollection/part

7 years, 5 months

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Text encoding Babel. Was Re: George Keremedjiev

by guykd＠optusnet.com.au

Resend, just in case that screen-cap image attachment fails. It is also here: http://everist.org/6F2a/cctalk_rcvd.png >Will require >some way to compare mailboxes in search of pattern in missing >emails... Which may or may not be obvious... which will lead to more >puzzles... oy maybe I should have stayed muted and let others do the >job... Here's one check. See attached screen-cap of cctalk emails. Usually many per day, but only one per day on the 15th & 16th Nov, none at all on the 17th. Did the list actually go silent then? It's possible by random ebb and flow, or maybe everyone was in shock over the awful Paradise fire death toll. Which may be over 1000, unless a lot of people listed as missing do turn up. Guy

7 years, 5 months

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1968 Hitachi HIDIC 100 Mini Computer

by billdegnan＠gmail.com

Sales Brochure scanned https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=587 Bill

7 years, 5 months

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George Keremedjiev

by kevin_anderson_dbq＠yahoo.com

These ? characters often show up for users like me who read via the e-mailed digests. Kevin Anderson

7 years, 5 months

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George Keremedjiev

by r_a_feldman＠hotmail.com

>Message: 10 >Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 16:17:27 -0500 >From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse at aol.com> >To: jfoust at threedee.com, cctalk at classiccmp.org, cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: George Keremedjiev >Message-ID: <16738228ce4-1ebf-222a at webjas-vad240.srv.aolmail.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >who? knows?? ?what? mail program? are? you using that? ?does that? > > >In a message dated 11/21/2018 1:25:08 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: > >? >At 02:03 PM 11/21/2018, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > >>I? sold? him my? extra classic 8? with the plexi covers on it... sn 200? series....? we? kept? sn #18 > >Side question: What process is turning non-blanking spaces into ISO-8859-1 >circumflex-A for you? > >I see '?' all throughout your emails. > >- John I get CCTalk in digest form and see the "?" in Ed's posts. Almost all (but strangely not all) of his posts are like that. I might occasionally see a strange extra character in someone else's post, but only rarely and then they usually are some non-English diacritical mark. BTW, we went through this about 6 months ago. Someone pointed out the strange characters in Ed's posts. No change resulted from that, however, and I doubt this thread will cause any change. Bob

7 years, 5 months

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Missing FORRTL

by dj.taylor4＠comcast.net

I'm trying to use the Compaq/HP Extended Math Library? (CXML) on a DEC Alpha under AXP Openvms 8.4 - Hobbyist License. Fortran 8.2 and CXML were part of the Hobbyist distribution I downloaded. CXML complains that FORRTL is not present or the version is too low, (it is not present - $Product show product - ) What am I missing? Doug

7 years, 5 months

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HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!

by couryhouse＠aol.com

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!! 2018! Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

7 years, 5 months

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Battery warning in Falco terminals

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I've been helping the MAME guys simulate a TS-2624, which is a block mode HP emulating terminal. I had bought this a while ago, and never dumped the firmware. Unfortunately there is a large NiCd battery right in the middle of the board that leaked all over. I've taken some pictures which are up under falco on bitsavers. If anyone has one of these, you want to do battery mitigation ASAP. I'm in the middle of replacing every socket on the board since they were all within range of the leakage corrosion. Also, I suspect the first generation of terminals all have similar hardware with different firmware, so if someone has any of the other models (TS-1, etc.) we could get them simulated pretty easily once the firmware is dumped.

7 years, 5 months

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Odd Hp leds in dip package

by lyokoboy0＠gmail.com

Hello. Encountered a couple odd parts in the pile today, not sure if they are anything special. Hp branded dip packages with gold leads. They appear to be leds in 4 grid patterns on the face. Im curious what they are out of, most likely an old hp computer or calculator. Part number on the back is hp5033592-101 i could not find any information online about them. If they are of use to someone with a hp conputer let me know. If not im trying to find a datasheet and use them in a project. Pictures : https://i.postimg.cc/dtJTGZfm/2018-11-21-10-48-34.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/pL6hNGLq/2018-11-21-10-49-19.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/C1Nw054S/2018-11-21-10-50-37.jpg

7 years, 5 months

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Manuals looking for a home

by mike_t_norris＠hotmail.com

Hi Guys, I have the following manuals looking for a home, free except for postage/delivery. (Based in UK). 1. 11/44 Field Maintenance Print Set (includes memory inverter, MS11-M, TU58) 2. RWP04 moving head disk subsystem maintenance manual 3. RM05 Disk Subsystem User guide + RM05 Fault Isolation Guide + RM05 IPB + RM05 Disk Subsystem Service Manual 4. DEC Station 220 Installation and Operations Guide 5. RA80 Maintenance Guide + RA81 Disk Drive Maintenance Guide + RA60 Maintenance Guide 6. MDM Microvax Diagnostic Monitor User's guide + Wartips (Warrington Support) - SID Registers, Boot lists, DCL Bits 7 Bobs. Will happily give further details if required, otherwise these go into recycling Regards Mike Norris

7 years, 5 months

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Vintage Datacomm Porn (SFW)

by silent700＠gmail.com

I have completed a scan of the December 1972 issue of "Communications News" and posted it to archive.org: https://archive.org/details/CommunicationsNewsV9N12/page/n0 Lots of great info and (mostly tiny) pics in here for fans of terminals, modems, early online networks and the growing data communications and computer telephony industries. And a big color ad for a Silent700 ASR! Google Books holds a lot of the other industry journals (the "______ World" types) but as far as I can tell, there are no other issues of this publication online. -j

7 years, 5 months

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A weird and ancient IBM offline memory device

by peter＠vanpeborgh.eu

Vintage geeks, Third attempt - hope springs eternal! Do any of you know where I could get hold of IBM 2321 "Data Cell" media? 1960s-1970s. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_2321_Data_Cell If you do, I would like to get hold of one. Many thanks, Peter PS Apologies if I am boring you. || | | | | | | | | Peter Van Peborgh 62 St Mary's Rise Writhlington Radstock Somerset BA3 3PD UK 01761 439 234 || | | | | | | | |

7 years, 5 months

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Removing PVA from a CRT

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:41:36 -0800 > From: Alan Perry <aperry at snowmoose.com> > Subject: Removing PVA from a CRT > > I recently picked up a Rainbow 100. The PVA between the safety glass and > the CRT on VR201 that came with it has broken down and failed badly. > > I have seen videos and read about removing the safety glass, cleaning out > the PVA, and reattaching and resealing the safety glass. > > All that I have seen basically sticks the safety glass on at its edges and > leaves a void where the PVA had been. It seems to me that the PVA was > providing some implosion protection. Would it work to replace the PVA and > attach the safety glass to the tube with an optically clear adhesive sheet? > I have seen that this exists, but have never used it before. > > alan > When we fixed the VR14 at the RICM, we were concerned about the safety aspects of removing the PVA and just using double-sided tape to hold the outer glass in place. We bought a thin sheet of Lexan at Home Depot, put the outer glass on a cookie sheet with the outside surface down, put the sheet of Lexan on top, and put it in an oven. When the temperature hit 420F (if I remember correctly) the Lexan softened and conformed to the inside of the glass. We trimmed the Lexan to size, reassembled the Lexan and glass to the front of the CRT, and glued the steel mounting band in place. It looks great, and is probably a lot safer than just leaving the PVA out. -- Michael Thompson

7 years, 5 months

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VCF PNW 2019: Exhibitors needed!

by mbbrutman＠brutman.com

I'm trying to throw a party, but like any good host I'm worried about the food and entertainment and if anybody will show up. We already know there is no food at the museum so I need really, really good entertainment ... Right now we have seven exhibitors who have formally registered. We really need a total of 20 to 25 to make this work. We are still a few months away so I'm not in full scale panic mode yet, but I can feel it coming. ;-0 If you are interested in joining the party again, please register. An overview of what it means to be an exhibitor and the link to the registration form can be found here: http://vcfed.org/wp/vcf-pnw-exhibitor-registration/ . If you participated last year and don't want to do it again, I can understand that. To keep things interesting I'm trying to minimize the number of repeat exhibits. However, you can still help in a few ways: - Know somebody who should join the party? Talk to them about exhibiting at 2019. A little nudging and mentoring from a friend can make it easier to bring new people in. - Have an interesting topic you want to talk about? We're looking for speakers too ... - Can you volunteer a few hours? Many hands makes light work, and also gets you into the museum for the weekend for free. Have any leads on people I should talk to or ideas for making the show better? Send them along ... I'd be happy to discuss. One final note: Contrary to any previously sent communication, we are not "selling" spots ... I'm actively trying to get rid of the exhibitor fee entirely, and will guarantee that it will be no more than $20 this year if it is charged at all. Thanks, Mike VCF PNW President, CEO, and Executive Floppy Disk Shuffler

7 years, 5 months

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What is windoes doing?

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

I have a question. I use the USB port for serial. In my program, I use a fixed com port. When going to the control panel, I find that I see (in use) tags on some of the com ports. I'm the only one currently using the com ports but recently another (in use) showed up, requiring me to modify my program to use another com port. How does one unuse a com port? how do I find out what is using it so I can stop it? I'm using windows 7 professional. Has anyone else had this problem? Dwight

7 years, 5 months

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HP-Apollo 9000/425t RAM

by cmhanson＠eschatologist.net

I?ve come into an HP-Apollo 9000/425t which uses memory boards with 72-pin headers rather than using SIMMs. Based on what I can see in pictures online, the boards themselves don?t appear to be anything special (they just carry TMS444000 etc. DRAM) and the connections aren?t anything special either, so I figure it shouldn?t be hard to design a SIMM adapter. Does anyone have or know where I could find the pinout and timings? -- Chris

7 years, 5 months

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IBM 3270 Emulation Adapter (ISA)

by pat＠vax11.net

I'm wondering if anyone knows where to find a copy of some software to make an IBM 3270 Emulation Adapter (the short ISA one) useful. I hear that IBM's PCOMM/3270 2.0 - 4.0 or so will work (on DOS) with the card. Pat

7 years, 5 months

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RT-11 DY install

by dstalk＠execulink.com

I'm trying to use a simulated RX02 disk (under simh) with RT-11 and can't seem to get the DY driver to install. Here's the relevant log: sim> set ry enabled sim> att ry0 ry0.dsk RY: creating new file RY: buffering file in memory sim> c .install dy ?KMON-F-Invalid device installation DL0:DY.SYS .dir dy.sys DY .SYS 4P 20-Dec-85 1 Files, 4 Blocks 14841 Free blocks I've tried with 2 different software "kits", the one from the simh site and the one from bitsavers. Any ideas? Thanks, Don

7 years, 5 months

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early ANSI C drafts, pre-1989 standard

by spacewar＠gmail.com

I'm interested in looking at any published drafts prior to the C 1989 standard. I found X3J11-88-090 here: https://yurichev.com/ref/Draft%20ANSI%20C%20Standard%20(ANSI%20X3J11-88-090… That makes mention of the previous draft being X3J11-88-001. Does anyone still have a copy of that draft, or other pre-89 drafts? I'm not looking for any of the published standards (I've purchased them), nor any drafts after the 1989 standard. Eric

7 years, 5 months

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Font for DEC indicator panels

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Koning >> The DEC font uses a zero with a slash > For that, a capital O with a slash would probably serve. Actually, it turns out that only earlier panels (e.g. KA10, TC08, etc) use the slashed zero; later ones (KI10, RP11, etc) use the ordinary ones. Since our panel is intended for use with the RPV11-D, the unslashed is OK. Thanks to all for all the help with the font; did anyone have any comments on the _layout_ of the inlay (here: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2018-November/043285.html for those who missed it among all the other messages). Noel

7 years, 5 months

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HP 88780B density

by kevin.bowling＠kev009.com

I have a dual density 88780B. Is it possible to upgrade to quad density by acquiring/swapping boards? Or does someone have an 800bpi 9-track on SCSI Incan borrow or buy? I have a pair of 1984 pdp11/70 UNIX SysV (R0, R1?) tapes that need to be archived. Regards, Kevin

7 years, 5 months

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TU58 tape formatter (was Re: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?)

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello. I have a VAX730 with both TU58 drives destroyed (capstan melted, need replacements). I also have a bunch of cassettes, but unfortunately all seem to have problems with the bend and/or bad spots on the tape. Possibly I would try to replace the broken bands (if I find a source) and/or replace the magnetic tape when damaged (I was thinking to try with audio cassette tape, don' t know if metal oxide high density tape could be good for it). Anybody has some information about the coercivity of original DEC TU58 tape? One problem indeed is the need of reformatting the tape, but: if I can emulate the TU58 drive using a serial, would it be possible to send raw commands to the drive using the serial and a PC? Andrea PS-If possible, some good-condition cassette would be very useful to me too. I'm located in Italy.

7 years, 5 months

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The fundamental building block of modern digital design turns 100 https://spectrum.ieee.org/geek-life/hands-on/recreating-the-first-flipflop

by couryhouse＠aol.com

YIPPEE? ?A? Birthday? Party! The fundamental building block of modern digital design turns 100 ? https://spectrum.ieee.org/geek-life/hands-on/recreating-the-first-flipflop

7 years, 5 months

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VAX 9440

by cctalk＠snarc.net

The VCF museum took delivery of a VAX 9440 today. It arrived in two 28-foot trailers. Here's our forklift driver beginning to unload the first truck: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E-Q5xrsYXyjrZEZh92xIBhlStvvNUcRV/view?usp=… Here's a teaser picture of the main cabinet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bEpSMzBEeOvuDnzPQ9Npc7iYmDhjZq8c/view?usp=… The full system is 30-40 feet long when it's all set up! It is in pristine condition and was in service at a defense contractor until a couple of months ago. Rumor has it that we arranged for another one to land in Dave McGuire's Large Scale Systems Museum collection, and a third to be with Bob Roswell's System Source collection. :) Perhaps they'll post updates too!

7 years, 5 months

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Swap clarification (Was: bill was my first "real" computer comoany customer"

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

Fred Cisin wrote: > Opened to public at 10:00 AM, by which time, the vendors had been buying > each others stuff for quite a while. "It's worth getting a vendor table, > just for the early admission!" That's true for just about any hamfest/swap meet, isn't it? Buy stuff right out of the back of the truck as it is unloaded. Bill S. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

7 years, 5 months

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Font for DEC indicator panels

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

So, anyone happen to know the font used in DEC's indicator panels: http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html or, at least, a very close match? For mockups we're doing, Dave B is using 'DejaVu Sans', but that's not a really close match: the vertical bars are wider than in the DEC font, where the verticals and horizontals are the same width. It would be nice to have a closer match when we go to turn out replicas. (We're just about settled on the format for the QSIC RKV11-F/RPV11-D panels.) Noel

7 years, 5 months

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Bill Godbout

by john＠ziaspace.com

http://vcfed.org/wp/2018/11/13/r-i-p-bill-godbout-79/ :(

7 years, 5 months

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bill was my first "real" computer comoany customer"

by couryhouse＠aol.com

A BILL GODBOUT TALE? C-? Ed Sharpe? Archivist? for SMECC BEWARE THIS NARTIVE WANDERS>? A very old friend Bill Godbout of the s100 computer days and my first real commercial buyer of any large quantity of surplus electronics material from me when I went into the early part of my computer store and surplus electronics business was burned in the fire in Paradise I have been informed. Very sad - He was a great guy - I met him at a computer fair in as I remember San Jose California ? I believe it was at the fairgrounds ? (Fair was run by a pleasant guy (was his name Craig or? Can someone clarify?) with the neatest 59 El Camino Chevy Truck (Prior to this I had never seen a ?59 before (I would love one!) Steve Beleauh (sp?) in High School had a ?64 ) were I had taken mainly a bunch of odds and ends but also some 8 inch floppy disc power supplies that Intel had scrapped at Empire metals ( Gary and Ray no doubt had something to do with those ending up there ? Hi guys!) and a box of AC power cords and some parts and stuff now what would be considered scrap too....Bill Godbout had set up to sell. (of course, he had all kids of computer stuff his company produced and other things he was a vendor for... He was a big guy in the BIZ in those days, We of course had some power cords and Bill and I when talking got on the topic of power cords for computers ... the new style...like all out pcs use now. ( the prior version on one end the normal 3 prog plug in the wall plug and the other had oval ends and round pins... and were available all over but not so the "NEW" style ( like we use now) I ended up with many many palate loads ITT Courier Terminal Company in Tempe Arizona ( They made IBM clone cluster terminal system -? but unlike? the? IBM? terminals? had? non-clicking? keyboards)) was surplussing ... and had calculated the quantity and cost carefully and beat the Finkelstein Brothers -> Mhz Electronics and Semiconductor Surplus... Richard at MHz still alive Steve at Semi Passed away)... ALAS!! The brothers miscalculated or used that as a reason for not getting the lot in later conversations, but It set us up with more damn cords that I ever imagined I could even sell. ? ANYWAY... First deal I did with him.... Telling Bill Godbout of all these cords he says ... well... "TRUST ME" ... "ship them to me and on receipt I will send you a check!" and then he jokes about I shouldn?t trust anyone in this business saying TRUST ME! But I did and true to his word his check arrived which set me up with enough cash to make many other great buys of Minicomputers, parts and terminals as I started out. Actually I think that is were the money came from to buy my first PDP-8 from Richard at MHz Electronics he had laying about. It was a 8M or 8F like an 8E with omnibus but short case so only accepting one Buss backplane and it used LEDS in the front panel vs the light bulbs the 8E used. (I was later able to sell this for a large sum thus? increasing the ?Computer Exchange? working capital. Thanks Bill. You will always be in our book as one of the original good guys.... and thanks for being someone I could trust in dealings. God in Heaven... Take good care of old Bill for me...

7 years, 5 months

2
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Got a Rainbow 100 and ...

by aperry＠snowmoose.com

Today I picked up a Rainbow 100. The seller bought it new for a specific need and he says that it had been sitting in his barn since '84. It looks like it was a dry barn because things look pretty clean for the most part aside from a thick layer of dust on everything. What I got was the system unit, a VR201 monitor, a keyboard, a vertical deskside stand for the system unit, and a LQP02 daisy wheel printer. I also got the MS-DOS and CP/M doc and software slip cover boxes. The CP/M disk box is still sealed and the CP/M docs are still in shrink wrap. The specific need that the seller bought it for involved MS-DOS, not CP/M. I last saw a Rainbow 100 in college around the time that the seller stopped using this system, so I am getting familiar with it now. I haven't powered anything on yet. Problems so far - 1. The VR201 monitor is leaking a brown fluid. Doing a little searching, I found some stuff posted here a couple years ago about it being common for them to leak PVA compound, so I am presuming what is what I am seeing. Right now I am looking for something that describes how to open the case up to clean the stuff up. If someone can give me some pointers to some docs/write-ups and save me some time, that would be great. 2. The belt that moves the print head is dried out and looks like, if the motor put any load on the belt, it will fail. Is any kind of replacement available? Thanks for any help that can be provided. alan

7 years, 5 months

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Any News from the Nova @ 50 Event?

by steve＠stephenmerrony.co.uk

I saw a brief positive post on Facebook, but nothing else. Any chance someone could write it up? Also, were there any announcements re. licensing etc? Steve --- Stephen Merrony

7 years, 5 months

2
1
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DEC Alpha Bug Check Crash

by dj.taylor4＠comcast.net

I hadn't started this DEC Alpha 3000-300 since last summer, and booted it up so I could load the new PAK's the other day. The result was that it completes almost the entire OpenVMS startup, but then crashes with the following: %SET-I-INTSET, login interactive limit = 64, current interactive value = 0 **** OpenVMS Alpha Operating System V8.4???? - BUGCHECK **** ** Bugcheck code = 000001CC: INVEXCEPTN, Exception while above ASTDEL ** Crash CPU: 00000000??? Primary CPU: 00000000??? Node Name: A300 ** Highest CPU number:??? 00000000 ** Active CPUs:?????????? 00000000.00000001 ** Current Process:?????? DECW$STARTUP ** Current PSB ID:??????? 00000001 ** Image Name: A300$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]DECW$CONFIG.EXE;1 **** Starting selective memory dump at? 8-NOV-2018 21:57... The disk is a SCSI2SD board with an 8 GB SD card.? It had been running just fine, until now. Does this crash point to a hardware or software problem?

7 years, 5 months

6
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Full story about Bill Godbout

by cctalk＠snarc.net

http://vcfed.org/wp/2018/11/13/r-i-p-bill-godbout-79/ ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)3 educational non-profit evan at vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation

7 years, 5 months

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