- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Koning > RSTS/E of course has a bunch of new stuff in it to deal with mapping, > but the bulk of the code carries over from RSTS-11. I was assuming that the basic intermal environment was sufficiently different that not a lot of the OS-level code could carry over, but I guess not. DId you actually work on RSTS-11 internals (I don't know your exact dates at DEC), or did you just read the source? And speaking of which, are any RSTS-11 sources still extant? I found the RSTS directory on BitSavers, but it seems to have only manuals. Noel

5 years, 9 months

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Early 3M Computer Tape Type Numbers

by t.gardner＠computer.org

I'm trying to figure out what were the earliest Type numbers for 3M ?-inch reel-to-reel computer tape As best I can find, 3M began marketing a Type 777 computer tape about 1967. The Type 700 appears to be somewhat later. But 3M sold computer tape directly to at least government customers (e.g. NSA, Social Security) in the 1950s. The also notably OEMed tape to IBM who rebranded it under an IBM label until the late 1960s at which point with the help of Sony IBM began manufacturing its own computer tape. Anyone have any idea of the Type number for 3M computer tapes earlier than Type 777? There might be a place for some of these older Types at the CHM if anyone knows of any still in existence. Tom PS: There is a lot of information on 3M audio tape Type numbers as at http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/3mtape/aorprod-cust.pdf but computer tape seems to be an orphan

5 years, 9 months

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FW: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Please copy cctalk/cctech on any responses to Peter. J From: Peter Dick <peter at balvine.com> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 4:34 PM To: jwest at classiccmp.org Subject: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday... Hi. I stumbled on your wonderful PDP11.ORG website. As I expect you know, RSTS was ?born? on 11th June 1970 as shown when you print DATE$(1%) with Star Date format selected. This means RSTS/E, the Greatest Operating System ever, has just turned 50 years old. We would like to mark this historic moment by collecting a total of 50 memories from those of us who used RSTS/E at some time, obviously the earlier the better. Or if you are still running old Basic Plus code, then the later the better! I will then collate these memories and email them out to everyone who takes part. What memories? It doesn?t matter. Funny / technical / life changing / surprise / show how times have changed / whatever ? Length? It doesn?t matter. Your name will be included but not your email address unless you specifically want it included. Please email contributions to 50years at silverware.co.uk <mailto:50years at silverware.co.uk> Bye/P Peter Dick, ex Chairman DECUS UK RSTS SIG.

5 years, 9 months

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A tool many of you may make find useful!

by dave.dunfield＠gmail.com

> The file is empty. Not much I go do except stop trying and advise people to ignore all this. I've just downloaded the file from my site, and it is NOT empty and does work. I did notice a small bug, if you specify names not in it's database it doesn't tell you, and produces no output. I have corrected it. Dave -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Personal site: http://dunfield.maknonsolutions.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 years, 9 months

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Need HP 9114B PROM 09114-15521 Contents

by cruff＠ruffspot.net

FYI: I've received the PROM image, no need for anyone else to go to the trouble to extract it.

5 years, 9 months

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Need HP 9114B PROM 09114-15521 Contents

by cruff＠ruffspot.net

The PROM in my 9114B committed suicide this morning, letting the magic smoke out. It was marked with part number 09114-15521, does anyone happen to have dumped the contents so I can program a new one? Thanks.

5 years, 9 months

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Hp 21mx loader rom set

by grant＠klyball.com

Thanks JayI'm am not trying to use DS/1000 just trying to get the 7974 loader going.Grant -------- Original message --------Grant wrote....------------------------Hi all, i am looking for a loader rom set for my 21mx and does not seem tobe around at the usual places, I am hoping to find a leed.Here is what i am in need of.12992L consisting of12992-8001191740-8007091740-8007191740-80072there is a set of 91740 on bit savers but with a suffix of 67-69 ?------------------------Pretty sure I have a binary copy of all known 12992's, the ones I use I justburn out to a set of blanks. The 7974 loader rom uses the boot loaderextension firmware for DS/1000. Are you actually running ds/1000?? I haven'tseen anyone get that up and running.I'll see if I can dig up the bin (or an already burned chipset).J

5 years, 9 months

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VAX /785 docs

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

This eBait item: https://www.ebay.com/itm/202989416368 has a number of VAX-11/785 manuals, including /785 Hardware User's Guide. A bit outside my scope, but /785 docs are very rare (Bitsvers only has prints) so a VAX person should grab this and then scan them. Noel

5 years, 9 months

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Accuracy of IBM Instructional Logic Diagrams

by cube1＠charter.net

As part of my project to create a Field Programmable Gate Array implementation (FPGA) of the IBM 1410 Data Processing System based on Automated Logic Diagrams (ALDs), I decided to look at using the Instructional Logic Diagrams (ILDs) to guide my testing, rather than using the ALDs directly. The ILDs are written completely in ?positive logic?. Going in, I sort of expected a pretty imperfect match ? that the ILDs would not have all the signals, and be somewhat superficial in their treatment of the logic. For the IBM 1410, the circuits were: AND, OR, Inverter, Indicator (Lamp), Single Shot, Latch (Reset/Set), Trigger (Flip Flop) To my surprise I found that the ILDs are *VERY* accurate, and a great testing guide, providing a second view of the logic ? a kind of redundancy check against my entry of ALD data into my system. They are good enough that they have given me considerable confidence that I can use them to help ?fill in the blanks? related to the handful of ALD pages I am missing, and also for some of the IBM 1414 peripheral controllers for which I do not have ALDs. In 1962 IBM published an article in the IEEE Transactions ?Information Processing ? from Engineering Drawing to Manufacture? by R. K. Grim that describes how the data the ended up generated ALDs was entered and the ALDs produced, but it does not mention where the ILDs come from. They are definitely artwork ? not machine generated per se. The article did not address ILDs. I have corresponded with IBM to see if they might have, in their archives, the data from these 1960s era engineering systems, but it seems that they do not (or have lost the pointers to them.) It seems that the SMS automation was first done using an IBM 709, then they later added IBM 7090 and IBM 1401 systems (which of course could not have been there for the original design of the IBM 7090 and 1401, which used the SMS system), using tape files. The article also describes future plans to use a 1301 disk drive attached to an IBM 1410 for remote (tele-processing) access (which was supported by the IBM 1410-PR155 operating system. The accuracy of the ILDs is such that I expect that they evolved along with the design of the machine and entry of the data used for the ALDs. I?d expect that doing it after the fact, from the ALDs, would be quite error prone ? besides the one difference I have found is in the signal names, which do not always exactly match those used in the ALDs, but are close enough that the intent is obvious. But I don?t know the timing: which came first ? the ILDs or the ALDs, or did they perhaps begin together in some form and co-evolve? In summary, it seems to me that one could do a pretty decent positive logic implementation of IBM machines of that era using these ILDs. This was a real eye-opener. If there are any old-time IBMers that read this, I'd love to hear any enlightening information or stories about this process. JRJ

5 years, 9 months

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On: raising the semantic level of a program

by sieler＠allegro.com

A friend kindly searched and found an interesting paper from 1973, Programming by semantic refinement <https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/390014.808298> JB Morris - ACM SIGPLAN Notices, 1973 - dl.acm.org. https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/390014.808298 While an interesting paper, it's going the opposite direction (essentially, going from an English language description down to a final programming language). But, using the L1 (highest level language), L2, ..., Ln (lowest level language) concept, I can phrase my concept better ... so ... Most programmers write at, say, the level of L3. They might write something like: mem [foo].head = something My "raising the semantic level" would be: #define HEAD(x). mem [x].head ... HEAD (foo) = something With a fair set of macros like that (HEAD, TAIL, etc), the program is now effectively written in a "new" language, L2 (a higher level language than L1). Being written in L2, the resulting code is more readable to everyone, partially because they aren't continually seeing the implementation of how ".head" / "mem" work/interact. In effect, the programmer has added a feature (linked list handling, perhaps) to L3 ... for that particular program, seemingly extending/raising the level of the language. It's that concept that I thought I saw sometime in the early 1970s :) thanks, Stan

5 years, 9 months

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Restarting Old Amiga's

by healyzh＠avanthar.com

I have the urge to get my Amiga?s back up and running. I?m still trying to find my main Amiga A3000, but have found my A500 and my A600. The problem is, I don?t remember the last time I powered these on. It?s been a long time since I?ve had time. In the case of the A3000, I think it?s been about 17 years. My Atari TT030 has been even longer. :-( Any advice about powering them up? Of course another fun challenge will be to figure out where on earth all my Amiga floppies are. Zane

5 years, 9 months

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IDE Hard Drive Question

by w2hx＠w2hx.com

Hi friends, Sorry for the long email that follows: I am working with an old military PC model SAIC V2LC. The PC is a 486 and is from around 1992 give or take a couple of years. Probably 1995 latest. The computer has one 3.5" floppy and a removable IDE hard drive in a removable carrier. It also seems to have a SCSI controller, but I would have to see what that is all about as the BIOS does not show anything about that so it may require a driver that I may be unlikely to find. Some pictures: https://w2hx.com/x/SAIC%20V2LC/1.JPG https://w2hx.com/x/SAIC%20V2LC/7.JPG https://w2hx.com/x/SAIC%20V2LC/9.JPG https://w2hx.com/x/SAIC%20V2LC/10.JPG IDE HD and carrier, the hard drive in the carrier is a Conner CFS540A: https://w2hx.com/x/SAIC%20V2LC/20200124_094111.jpg https://w2hx.com/x/SAIC%20V2LC/20200124_094131.jpg https://w2hx.com/x/SAIC%20V2LC/20200124_094115.jpg https://w2hx.com/x/SAIC%20V2LC/20200124_094118.jpg https://w2hx.com/x/SAIC%20V2LC/20200124_094105.jpg I purchased this SD-IDE converter to replace the failing (failed) hard drive. I got a 40 pin converter because I saw that the conner CFS540A uses 40 pins. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G29TZPS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00… I received the converter and went to remove the hard drive from the carrier and saw something surprising. It appears that 4 wires from the computer are connected not to the 40 pin IDE connector, but directly to the hard drive in the center piece (is this the motor? Voice coil? I don't know). https://w2hx.com/x/SAIC%20V2LC/0625201552.jpg https://w2hx.com/x/SAIC%20V2LC/0625201605.jpg Does ANYONE have any idea what these 4 wires are connected to and why? And anyone give any odds about whether these 4 wires will prevent this IDE-SD converter from working? Any and all suggestions/advice welcome. 73 Eugene W2HX

5 years, 9 months

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A tool many of you may make find useful!

by dave.dunfield＠gmail.com

>this tool is really similar to "rdfind", which compares file sizes and >content, independently from file name, and is able to create a list of >correspondence, delete duplicate files, and create symbolic links to the >single instance. >This can work on large amounts of files, even on complex directory tree. Sounds good, don't know that I saw that one (tend not to look too hard as I enjoy creating stuff, and what I do is usually smaller, easier to use - at least for me - and more reliable). Didn't want to go into a lot of detail as this isn't exactly classic computer related.. although I expect a lot of classic collectors are like me and have use for it. Couple things I implemented in DFF which I don't know of in other tools: It uses an "index" file - first attempt just used the output of windows: DIR/S but I found it got big and unworkable fast, and changed from one version of windows to another. DFF creates its own which is small and consistent, having only the DIR names, and file sizes + names. This is normally a temp file, but you can Keep it, just Build it without processing, and process it later. You can also have DFF append to it so you can deal with as complex dir structure as you like, by /BAing it in various places. It can deal with files in arbitrary directory trees on multiple drives quite easily. You can also have it place and END marker in the file, which means that anything you append will be treated differently. Anything before the END marker is scanned and reported as you expect. After the END marker, files are considered as possible duplicates, but not checked and reported separately. And since the "index" file is a text file, you can add to it, change it and retrieve it's content very easily - you don't need special programs provided by the tool maker to do unusual things. Same is true for it's output. You can also have it list: - All files (dups have a dup instance number see below) - Only duplicate files - Only single files - Under each directory, you can get it to list where all the duplicates are (full path) This combined with the END marker makes some fairly powerful things possible. (Show me any files occurring here which are not also occurring there). Each instance of duplication is assigned a unique "duplicate instance" number which is shown next to all files which are part of that "duplicate instance". I thought about an automatic "delete duplicates" feature but didn't implement it as I am organizing a lot of data, much is duplicated, it's final resting place may not be one of the original locations and I want control over how the final archive is organized. Dave -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Personal site: http://dunfield.maknonsolutions.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 years, 9 months

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A tool many of you may make find useful!

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello, this tool is really similar to "rdfind", which compares file sizes and content, independently from file name, and is able to create a list of correspondence, delete duplicate files, and create symbolic links to the single instance. This can work on large amounts of files, even on complex directory tree. Andrea

5 years, 9 months

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A tool many of you may make find useful!

by dave.dunfield＠gmail.com

Sorry, can't respond easily because I read the list on the web, can't deal with the flood of email from it, and can't respond via the web interface. >I'm not clear on what "duplicate" really means. Perhaps you can clarify >things for me. > >Duplicate in name and/or size? >Duplicate in content? > >There are lots of duplicate file finders for Windows and some of them >are quite sophisticated, being able to compare the content of files with >different encodings and provide "almost the same" type of information. Duplicate means exact duplicate size and contect, name does not matter. (I copied lots of stuff around, sometimes renaming it and want to find all the dups). Yeah, lots of nifty tools, but I needed one where I could easily control what it looks and and process it's results (text files). Also had to deal with VERY large sets of data (terabytes) and do it all in a fairly reasonable time. So I just wrote one. I'm a bit unusual that way - tend to write stuff that does exactly what I need instead of trying to use something that sort of comes close but often also does a lot I don't want. >Downloading http://dunfield.maknonsolutions.com/dos/sw/ddw2020.zip >gets flagged by Windows Defender on Windows 10 Pro (1909) >as "Worm:Win32/Spybot". Not for me, it's something I compiled from my own source myself, is packed with UPX - maybe Windows Def doesn't like that but it raises no alarms on the Win7 Pro system I'm testing on. Have no control of Windows Defender .. just one of many reasons I don't use Windows much. Not the first time good clean code of my own has triggered false alarms. FWIW, I just downloaded DDW2020.ZIP from the site, and it exactly matches my original one. Contents also exactly match my original files, here is a DIR listing: Directory of R:\DDW2020 2020-06-24 09:08 PM 3,255 DDW2020.TXT 2020-06-24 09:08 PM 23,584 DFF.EXE 2020-06-24 09:08 PM 23,584 EDT.EXE 2020-06-24 09:08 PM 31,907 EDT.TXT 2020-06-24 09:08 PM 6,688 FDF.EXE 2020-06-24 09:08 PM 9,760 VLT.EXE 6 File(s) 98,778 bytes Note, Windows did warn me that this file is not commonly downloaded and wanted to "discard" it, but I used "Keep" - no defender or antivirus alarms triggered. Dave PS: Noticed and fixed the spelling of "Download" - may need to reload to see due to browser cache. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Personal site: http://dunfield.maknonsolutions.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 years, 9 months

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Future of cctalk/cctech

by aek＠bitsavers.org

With Jay retiring, what are the hosting plans for these mailing lists?

5 years, 9 months

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Tri-Data Cartrifile parts/interfaces/tapes?

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hi all -- I picked up a Tri-Data Cartrifile 4096 at VCF West last year and since I'm suddenly going to have more time on my hands, I thought it'd be fun to see if I can get it running again. The Cartrifile is a tape drive that uses cartridges containing continuous-loop 1/4" tape in various lengths, much like 8-track tape though in slightly different packaging and with a fixed head. 10ips, 600bpi. (There's a brochure on Bitsavers at http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tridata/Tri-Data_4096_Brochure_Feb69.pdf) The unit I have has a PDP-8 compatible interface, though I only have the cabling and rear-bulkhead for posibus systems. (My 8/I is currently negibus, so some work will need to be done there.) It's in pretty decent shape and I think I should be able to get it to work again. I also have a stack of cartridges and it remains to be seen how they hold up. If they're anything like 8-track tapes, the EOT marker will probably fall off and the tape ends will need to be reconnected as well :). At minimum I hope to be able to recover the data off the tapes I have. Curious if anyone out there has one of these, has any spare parts, or interface parts (there was at one point an Omnibus interface available, and having the negibus interface would be extremely handy.) Thanks as always, Josh

5 years, 9 months

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Zaiaz 933 Clipper board

by plamenspam＠afterpeople.com

Hello, Recently acquired such board and would like to ask if someone has any documentation or/and software for it. Regards, Plamen

5 years, 9 months

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A tool many of you may make find useful!

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 10:41 AM 6/25/2020, Dave Dunfield via cctalk wrote: >I originally wrote it for my own use, but it has proven SO useful that I took >a little time to clean it up and post it at my personal site.: Downloading http://dunfield.maknonsolutions.com/dos/sw/ddw2020.zip gets flagged by Windows Defender on Windows 10 Pro (1909) as "Worm:Win32/Spybot". - John

5 years, 9 months

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A tool many of you may make find useful!

by dave.dunfield＠gmail.com

Hi, Don't know if anyone is interested, but I'd guess that a lot of you like me have collected a big pile of digital "stuff" over the years, and also if like me, it may have gotten away from you a bit with a lot of duplication etc. Having some spare time, I've been organizing my collected documentation, software, drivers and other files. As part of this process I wrote "Duplicate File Finder", a WIn32/64 tool which can look at a VERY large file collection (can even be across many drives etc.) and produce a nice summary of what is duplicated and where all the duplicates are. I originally wrote it for my own use, but it has proven SO useful that I took a little time to clean it up and post it at my personal site.: http://dunfield.maknonsolutions.com If this sounds useful, have a look and grab the program. Hopefully it will be as useful to you as it has to me. Dave -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Personal site: http://dunfield.maknonsolutions.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 years, 9 months

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The Old Calculator Museum - Oregon

by peter＠vanpeborgh.eu

Guys, I seem to have lost contact with Rick Bensene of that museum for the last 10 days. Can anyone tell me if he is ok? Many thanks, peter

5 years, 9 months

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PDP-11 tape question

by cclist＠sydex.com

I've been processing some PDP-11 9 track (800 NRZI) tapes and run across something that I don't recognize. Every file on the tape consists of a number of 512 byte blocks (okay, that's normal) but at the head of each file, there's a short block of 14 bytes. Usually, a short record like this is discarded as "noise" on many mainframe tape systems, but here it's consistently present. Here's what one of the records looks like: 15 34 fe 51 fe 76 01 01 00 00 01 80 10 00 Doesn't seem like a file name in RAD50 format, so I'm puzzled. Inquiring minds want to know... Thanks, Chuck

5 years, 9 months

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Changing the number of file headers on an RSX volume

by cz＠alembic.crystel.com

So I'm working on this RSX11M+ system here and while working I ran myself out of file headers. Using the HOME /MXF command I was able to increase the number of headers, but only up to 4090. or so. Trying to go to 4100 gave me an error saying there were not enough system blocks or something. Currently I have 830 headers, but that's not enough in the long term. The volume has 541,944 blocks total, with 150655 in use. This is a system I generated on a smaller disk, then copied to the pdp11, then backed up with BRU MU0:=DU0: then restored to a larger blank disk. I guess the question is can I extend the number of blocks without having to re-init the system disk? I suppose I could flatten it by taking the system down to single user (shutdown, then p to start with the volume dismounted, mount the volume /for, then BRU mu0:=du0:), then format the volume with a really big assed MXF value, then restoring the tape, but would that flatten the volume info? Or do I need to just man up, put a second ESDI drive on this monster, copy the files to the second drive then format the first (big) volume right, copy the files with PIP, and do a VMR again to write the boot block? Or is there a better way to backup and restore the volume without doing an image backup using /for? Been a long time since I've done this stuff. Thanks! C

5 years, 9 months

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PDP8 KV graphics PCB design

by roelof_klaas＠yahoo.com

I found somewhat fascinating pictures in a PDP8 small computer handbook. It is a KV graphics system. According to the book it was used to design new computer circuit boards. So I got very curious to that KV system. I found a maintenance manual about the system. It even had a joystick! I wonder if any of that PCB software has been rescued? Regards, Roland https://ibb.co/WVKCfMz https://ibb.co/TvYpP2v https://ibb.co/6mSZkdh

5 years, 9 months

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IBM vacuum tubes

by decguy＠songdog.eskimo.com

While going through my assortment of old vacuum tubes looking for audio treasures, I found a handful of IBM branded ones. Mostly 5965, but there's one 5963 mixed in. These are dual triodes with the same pinout as common small-signal audio tubes such as 12AX7/7025/ECC83, but characteristics closer to 12AT7 or 12AU7. My RCA Receiving Tube Manual says they're designed to withstand being held in cutoff for long periods of time, and mentions digital applications. Anyone know what kind of IBM machine these would have been used in?

5 years, 9 months

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Malfunctioning VT240 - help please

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

On 6/21/20 10:41 AM, Jon Elson wrote: > On 06/20/2020 09:41 PM, Charles wrote: >> On 6/20/20 8:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote: >>> >>>> I confirmed the bad one by removing the piggyback and the failure >>>> returned. Now I need to desolder the bad one without ruining the >>>> board. I may just cut the leads off close to the bad chip, and >>>> solder the replacement to the stumps. (Normally I remove the legs >>>> and install a machine-pin DIP socket). Or just solder the piggyback >>>> and leave it there... thoughts? >>>> >>> Cut the leads close to the body.? Apply a soldering iron to each >>> lead, and pull the lead out with tweezers, >>> simultaneously heating and pulling.? This is very gentle to the >>> board, just doing one at a time.? Then, you can vacuum out the holes >>> and install a new chip or socket. >>> >>> I've done this many times, and never wrecked a board. >>> >>> Jon >>> >> That's how I do it... the vacuuming is the problem. Someday I need to >> get a good vacuum desoldering station. Right now I just have a >> spring-loaded solder sucker (which I can do a pretty decent job with >> on most boards). But this high-density layout (2 traces between DIP >> pads) I'm a bit wary of. >> > Just be gentle, and you should be able to do it.? Also, in some cases, > you might heat from the opposite side from the solder sucker.? That > way, you can keep the soldering iron on the pad until you have > triggered the sucker.? But, yes, the hollow soldering iron with > powered vacuum is amazing the first time you try it.? I got one at an > auction years ago, it is much better than the regular iron and > plunger-sucker. > > Jon The small company I first worked for had a Pace unit. I remember not being impressed with it - frequent clogs, pads lifting, and not getting all the solder out, no matter how we set things. Still beat solder-wick though! I got it done, but pin 16 (which connects directly to the internal-layer ground plane) was a bear. From the feel of it and the heat required, the draftsman didn't bother to make pad reliefs. Anyway it's now socketed, so of course it will never fail again! I also made a small jumper on a 15-pin D-sub to connect Monitor Present L to ground, so that annoying "Monitor Error 9" message stops ;) On to the next project!

5 years, 9 months

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Imsai and others in Montgomery, AL

by sales＠elecplus.com

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/960320167759670/ Guy is cleaning out his shed because he is moving. Not affiliated with seller, etc. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

5 years, 9 months

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LK201 emulation

by paulkoning＠comcast.net

Gentlepeople, I've been having problems with broken LK201s, so as a workaround I created an adapter that connects to a standard PC USB keyboard and makes it look like an LK201. It's based on an Arduino (specifically, Adafruit Trinket M0, an amazingly tiny yet powerful small microprocessor). It's working at this point, though it needs a few small software tweaks to make it complete. I'm going to turn my breadboard into something slightly more polished. Question to the list: is this something that would be of interest to others? If yes, I can make the design available. Perhaps the PCB layout and parts list. I don't think I want to get into building units for others, though. paul

5 years, 9 months

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New subscribers?

by ccth6600＠gmail.com

Are new subscribers to cctalk still accepted? My subscription request was left unanswered. With all the talk about the future of this list I wonder if I came too late. Thanks Tom Hunter

5 years, 9 months

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Malfunctioning VT240 - help please

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

> On 06/11/2020 02:29 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > >/If that would be the case I think the system would fail />/quite soon rather than on test 5. A guess is that this is />/a memory problem. / That was a good guess, everyone ;) I got some new 4116's and piggybacked (dry, no solder) two of them atop my suspects at E3 & E4. Didn't fix it. Of course :/ In the meantime I've acquired a nice HP 1630G logic analyzer complete with pods and cables. Setting it up was going to take quite a while since I'm not familiar with this model. So I decided to try a simple brute-force approach before the analyzer. I piggybacked another 4116 onto each soldered-in 4116, one at a time. Actually easy to do since with the leads properly formed, I didn't even have to solder it in place, just turn off the power and move it to the next chip. On the 16th, the last one of course, the terminal booted normally and works again. :) I confirmed the bad one by removing the piggyback and the failure returned. Now I need to desolder the bad one without ruining the board. I may just cut the leads off close to the bad chip, and solder the replacement to the stumps. (Normally I remove the legs and install a machine-pin DIP socket). Or just solder the piggyback and leave it there... thoughts?

5 years, 9 months

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Ancient transistor ?computer board (Peter Van Peborgh)

by peter＠vanpeborgh.eu

Guys, I now know it is an early CDC board. IT had C*NT*OLDATA on the reverse - how I missed that must be attributed to old age. (Thanks Doug) Here are shots of the back: https://photos.app.goo.gl/UPozyBB3zp7XYcP79 Any idea what the row of hole opposite the contacts were? Testing points? But then why holes and not short pillars? Some are labelled on both sides. Continuing in hope, peter

5 years, 9 months

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Future of cctalk/cctech

by boris＠summitclinic.com

Agree that current mailing list format is best as simple, low bandwidth and can always post links to images or other large files. I still use Eudora as my email client and have text only emails. Seems to perplex a lot of people I deal with when I can't read their emails, but it seems somewhat wastefull to use 1-2 Mb to send a message that only needs 200 bytes at most (once one strips off all zero-information fluff from the email). Run my own mailserver as well so can email myself massive attachments when email is only way of getting data off a remote machine. Images take up a lot of space and are best dealt with via links. I've run my own webserver/ftpserver since 1999 and find that's the easiest way of sharing large files with people. While it's nice having high resolution photos like those that Samsung phones creat, they're in the 3-5 Mb size range. If I need to put a lot of photos on a web page, I'll use the free Photo Studio program (written by John Hawkins) which creates a web page with a series of thumbnails with full image available by clicking on thumbnail and can set size of thumbnail image. Rather old, but works fine for simple web pages where all one wants to do is serve up a set of images. Remember 15 years ago that online documentation was sparse but have found most DEC manuals are online and C64 stuff a lot easier to find than it used to be. Being rather paranoid, I've downloaded manuals for all machines I have and keep a duplicate copy of everything. Not sure how many people are on cctalk/cctech, but keeping everything text only would be best way of minimizing bandwidth for whoever hosts it, Boris Gimbarzevsky >On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 3:31 PM Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk < >cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > Sure, there's always `uuencode' when you do need to post that non-text > > piece (which I guess will keep the eyes of Luddites away from it too). > > > >Or an http, https, ftp, or gopher url to somewhere else hosting the image. > >Pat

5 years, 9 months

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Someone's confused

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

Love the title on this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/184317705963 eBait auction: "16K Sense Inhibit Board .. VAX 6000, VAX-11/730". Yeah, core on a VAX! And such a deal, a mere US$400! Noel

5 years, 9 months

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Fixing an RK8E ....

by bob＠jfcl.com

It appears that my RK8E has a problem - it fails the diskless control test with .R DHRKAE.DG SR= 0000 COMMAND REGISTER ERROR PC:1160 GD:0000 CM:0001 DHRKAE FAILED PC:6726 AC:0000 MQ:7777 FL:0000 WAITING Ok, maybe a bad bit in the command register so I'll check it out. But then it dawns on me - how do you work on this thing? It's three boards connected with "over the top" connectors - you can't use a module extender on it. Worse, the M7105 Major Registers board is the middle one of the stack! Is there some secret to working on this thing? Has anybody fixed one? Any suggestions? I hadn't thought about it before, but the KK8E CPU would have the same problem. Fingers crossed that one never dies... Bob

5 years, 9 months

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Hercules SDLC/BSC interfacing project - want 3174-x1R

by mattislind＠gmail.com

Hello! I have been working on interfacing the Hercules emulator with various real terminals for some time. First project was an Alfaskop terminal cluster which I connected using a small STM32 controller handling BSC. Next is an Informer 213, portable 3178/3174 compatible terminal. It it using SDLC. A friend has a 3178 and 3279 which would interesting to work with. A 3174-51R/-61R/-81R/-91R would be very suitable for this. It would be very nice to test my BSC and SDLC code with the real IBM stuff. I have put my project here: https://github.com/MattisLind/alfaskop_emu/tree/master/Utils <https://github.com/MattisLind/alfaskop_emu/tree/master/Utils> Still very much Work In Progress. If anyone has a type 1 3174 that does BSC and SDLC so I could test my stuff I would be very interested. No need for fancy features like TCP/IP and/or token ring. I of course pay shipping. But can throw in various DEC QBUS stuff as a trade. /Mattis

5 years, 9 months

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CSPI SC-3XL and SC-4XL documentation?

by cmhanson＠eschatologist.net

I've just come into a couple of CSPI VME cards, an SC-3XL and an SC-4XL (both with attached memory), and I was wondering if anyone has documentation. They're based on the Intel i860 and intended for VME-based array processors. -- Chris

5 years, 9 months

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New drive for my 11/83....

by cz＠alembic.crystel.com

Picked up a CDC 94166 ESDI disk on Ebay last week, arrived and sure enough it works. No errors either, so I can now give my 30+ year old Fujitsu 2322 a rest and load up rsx11m+ instead of 11/m 4.2 After formatting it on the MTI controller (MQD13) I set the first partition to 30mb and loaded up my RT11 5.7 backup from the TK50 onto it with no issues. Productive. If I can find my DEQNA and an AUI to wireless adapter I could get this thing up on the net.....

5 years, 9 months

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Future of cctalk/cctech

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Use modern email program that sees expanded char. Sets and graphics.... it is a brand new world !??? I love old hardware to look at but if communicating? I like? the ability to see graphical? things...? and I think tell majority of people like? images of things......?? Ed# On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 Fred Cisin via cctalk <cisin at xenosoft.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, ED SHARPE @ AOHell.com via cctalk wrote: > These 2 have my vote as well.... > I do not know, anyone using a text only mail reader anymore! > >> The one thing I would change here is removal of the restriction on attachments. >> Well, two things.. Getting rid of the cctalk/cctech split as well. I read this list on PINE, on a shell account at my ISP. In this group, I doubt that I am the only one. Can we restrict to TEXT emails? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred? ? ??? ??? cisin at xenosoft.com

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PLATO V Terminal

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Koning > airfight and any number of other multi-user games -- a thing made > popular by PLATO and possibly originated there. What was the date on that? Multi-player MazeWar on the Imlacs/ITS at MIT was running before 1976 (I played it about then), but I don't recall exactly when it first ran (before my time). Noel

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E-Mail Formats RE: Future of cctalk/cctech

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Peter Coghlan > via cctalk > Sent: 18 June 2020 08:22 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Future of cctalk/cctech > > ED SHARPE wrote: > > Use modern email program that sees expanded char. Sets and > > graphics.... it is a brand new world ! I love old hardware to look > > at but if communicating I like the ability to see graphical > > things... and I think tell majority of people like images of > > things...... Ed# > > > Just beware. Some environments, especially old EBCDIC ones put different currency symbols on the same code points So:- I wrote this as one dollar => $1.00 This as one pound => $1 And this as one euro => ?1 Lastly one cent => ?1 I expect you all get that as sent except for perhaps the Euro which didn't exist when Peters VAX was built.... ... but on an old UK EBCDIC mainframe Dollar becomes Pound and Cent becomes dollar. This was a real pain as a UK user of Bitnet. Dave > Let me get this straight. If I stop using VMS MAIL for this list and use one of > these new fangled things instead, I too will be able to make high quality > postings to the list, just like this one??? > > Regards, > Peter Coghlan > > > > > On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 Fred Cisin via cctalk <cisin at xenosoft.com; > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, ED SHARPE @ AOHell.com via cctalk wrote: > > > These 2 have my vote as well.... > > > I do not know, anyone using a text only mail reader anymore! > > > > > >> The one thing I would change here is removal of the restriction on > attachments. > > >> Well, two things.. Getting rid of the cctalk/cctech split as well. > > > > I read this list on PINE, on a shell account at my ISP. > > > > In this group, I doubt that I am the only one. > > > > > > Can we restrict to TEXT emails? > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com > >

5 years, 9 months

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Farewell Etaoin Shrdlu

by lproven＠gmail.com

https://archive.org/details/FarewellEtaoinShrdlu 28min documentary on the last ever edition of the NY Times to be printed using hot metal -- before they switched to what are now a quite choice assortment of late-'70s minicomputers. I think I spotted a PDP, a Data General and some IBM device, but I am no expert in this era. As a veteran reader of Fredric Brown, especially "the Enchanted Linotype", I have been using ETAOIN SHRDLU to win at Hangman for many years... but I'd never seen one working before. It all still seems like magic to me. I've worked in the magazine industry so I should know more about this stuff, but I never worked at the repro end of things... -- Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven ? Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

5 years, 9 months

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: Unknown Intel blinkenlight panel circa 1973

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Camiel Vanderhoeven > I know Intel made the in-4011 for the PDP-11, but I never saw a picture > of it. Was it UNIBUS memory, or what? It doesn't seem to be in that table of early Intel products. BTW, speaking of Intel PDP-11 memory, I have this: http://gunkies.org/wiki/File:IN-1611.jpg QBUS Intel memory board; hven't tried to get it running, though. Noel

5 years, 9 months

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Future of classiccmp

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Al wrote: >With Jay retiring, what are the hosting plans for these mailing lists? Well at least for me, there's more to it than that ? I retired from general work on 4/30/20. My consulting firm is going to be kept open on paper for a few years at least but I doubt I will be transacting much business through it. I guess if someone comes by with a short project that I find interesting, I may do it through that company but mostly it's staying open to handle a few germane expenses. All staff and offices are gone and regular payrolls ended 4/30. That leaves the hosting company for me to determine scope/future. Since that company (as long as you are proactive with admin tasks) takes virtually zero work and allows me to have a grossly oversized but paid for full-on high availability virtualization architecture, I was going to keep it going during retirement with just a few very low maintenance customers that cover the costs. I basically can then host any personal/hobby related sites for myself and friends at literally zero cost. In this company I do have one business partner, and that relationship has become quite difficult lately. So much so, that I'm ready to just turn it off and walk away. I'm sorry, but I have reached the point in my life where that stress outweighs the benefits. This infrastructure is of course where I've hosted not only the classiccmp mailing list, but a fair chunk of other classic computing related websites and services at zero cost to their respective owners. Throw in to the mix that for whatever reason - while I have dutifully taken care of this list and a lot of other related websites for probably 15+ years or more - I honestly don't feel that I am doing a good job of it's care & feeding lately. I think it's time for fresh eyes and attitudes to carry it forward. I hope no one begrudges me for after decades finally saying "it's time". I have enjoyed being of service. First and foremost, there is no worry about future hosting plans for above content. I'm not going to just turn it off one day - the grizzled veterans here that know me well know that I would not let that happen. There is no sense of immediate urgency nor any possibility of data just disappearing. That being said, I do wish to move steadily forward with those plans. Second, I do not wish to pass this off to someone who "has a server in their basement" or has spare space on a vps. While I appreciate these offers and the desire to help, I'm not sure you have full knowledge of what all is here. Putting it on a "PC in your basement" is not the environment this stuff requires. At the very least, asymmetric bandwidth (what most people have in their homes) is a non-starter. Sneaking it on to your company infrastructure isn't good either, as there is almost always a builtin "need to move this stuff soon" disruption in store. I've already been working with folks in this community to figure out what to offload, where, how, etc. That work will continue, and I suspect that each separate migration will go off transparently with little or no outward signs of change. Also, I am definitely not leaving the hobby; I just look forward to participating as an end-user instead of host. Just as a heads up at the same time I am looking to thin my herd; not because I've lost interest but because I want to gain focus. That means most likely that I will be moving out a lot of choice DEC, Data General, Heathkit, and related items. I will post separately on that topic, but at the least I am going to keep/focus on HP and a couple others. Will post more info once I have it ? Best, J

5 years, 9 months

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Origin of 3-D printing (again)

by sieler＠allegro.com

Hi, Back in 2017, I posted something about seeing a possible first-ever reference to the idea of 3-D printing in a 1951 issue of Galaxy Science Fiction magazine. I stumbled over an even earlier one tonight... The September, 1941, issue of Astounding Science Fiction magazine has a story called "Elsewhere" by Caleb Saunders (a pseudonym of Robert A. Heinlein). On page 118 we see: [They used] a single general type of machine to manufacture almost anything. They fed into it a plan which Igor called, for want of a better term, the blueprints. It was, in fact, a careful scale model of the device to be manufactured; the machine retooled itself and produced the artifact. A three-dimensional pantograph, Igor called the machine, vaguely and inaccurately. One of them was, at that moment, molding the bodies of fighting planes out. of plastic, all in one piece and in one operation. Stan

5 years, 9 months

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PLATO V Terminal

by ccth6600＠gmail.com

I have been "hunting" for a PLATO V terminal for some time. It was made by Regency - Carroll. If there is such a terminal gathering dust in a shed or garage and the owner would like to find a good home for it then please let me know. I have successfully restored a Control Data Corp IST-3 terminal and 721 Viking terminal and have the skills, equipment and passion to restore the terminal to its former beauty and functionality. Tom Hunter

5 years, 9 months

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Future of cctalk/cctech

by couryhouse＠aol.com

These 2 have my vote as well.... I do not know, anyone using a text only mail reader anymore! > The one thing I would change here is removal of the restriction on attachments. > > Well, two things.. Getting rid of the cctalk/cctech split as well. On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 Rob Jarratt via cctalk <rob at jarratt.me.uk; robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Al Kossow via > cctalk > Sent: 17 June 2020 13:55 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Future of cctalk/cctech > > > > > I wonder what you don't like about "groups.io" Its pretty much a pure mailing > list? > > Like all of the webby time-wasters, they don't have easy to mirror zipped > archives, because they want to to spend time hovering around clicking on their > sites. > > > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ > > > The one thing I would change here is removal of the restriction on attachments. > > Well, two things.. Getting rid of the cctalk/cctech split as well. I would agree with both of those too. Rob

5 years, 9 months

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Amiga Vendors?

by healyzh＠avanthar.com

I found AmigaKit.com in the UK, are there any Amiga vendors left in the US? I need to order some parts, and not only do I not remember who I used to use in the US, I assume they?re gone. Zane

5 years, 9 months

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Ancient transistor ?computer board (Peter Van Peborgh)

by peter＠vanpeborgh.eu

Sorry guys about the unusable tera-URLs. To reiterate, I have acquired this board and have trouble assigning it to a particular computer manufacturer and type: Try this for the photos: https://tinyurl.com/ydxnzh9g and https://tinyurl.com/yb6z3utv Smells of (early) 1960s transistorized. No helpful marking apart from * "GATE JJ01" on SIDE A. (components). * "C NT OL DATA" on side B (solder traces). Big transistors are Motorola "180376008". Also, any ideas what the "246 636 B" boxes are, they have four legs? Can any of you of mature years suggest anything? Many thanks, ( praise be to TinyURL), peter

5 years, 9 months

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Future of cctalk/cctech

by couryhouse＠aol.com

These 2 have my vote as well.... I do not know, anyone using a text only mail reader anymore! > The one thing I would change here is removal of the restriction on attachments. > > Well, two things.. Getting rid of the cctalk/cctech split as well. On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 Rob Jarratt via cctalk <rob at jarratt.me.uk; robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Al Kossow via > cctalk > Sent: 17 June 2020 13:55 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Future of cctalk/cctech > > > > > I wonder what you don't like about "groups.io" Its pretty much a pure mailing > list? > > Like all of the webby time-wasters, they don't have easy to mirror zipped > archives, because they want to to spend time hovering around clicking on their > sites. > > > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ > > > The one thing I would change here is removal of the restriction on attachments. > > Well, two things.. Getting rid of the cctalk/cctech split as well. I would agree with both of those too. Rob

5 years, 9 months

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Was: PDP-8/A transformer hum Is: VXT-2000 stuff.

by joezatarski＠gmail.com

> > > > On 6/9/2020 11:51 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 9:04 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk >> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> For the VXT-2000 with an H7109-B the rated voltage and current values >> are printed right on the power supply label: >> >> +5.1V, 7.81A >> +12.1V, 0.62A >> -12.1V, 0.46A >> -9V, 0.2A >> >> Fixed width character pinout diagram: >> >> +=================+ >> -9V | Yellow | Orange | +12.1V >> +--------+--------+ >> ??? | White | Black | Gnd >> +--------+--------+ >> +5.1V | Red | Blue | -12.1V >> +--------+--------+ >> +5.1V | Red | Black | Gnd >> +--------+--------+ >> Gnd | Black | Black | Gnd >> +=================+ >> >> The mystery is the White wire. The power supply label only lists 4 >> output voltages. The White wire appears to be routed to the Ethernet >> daughter board. The measured voltage appears that it might be floating >> slightly negative, somewhere around -1.5V when the Ethernet daughter >> board is installed and around -5V when it is removed. Maybe it is a >> high impedance earth ground connection? It appears to be connected to >> the shield of the Ethernet BNC, which measures around 1M-Ohm to the >> chassis ground when the power supply is disconnected from the main >> board, and around 0.75M-Ohm when the power supply is connected. >> > As long as we are talking VXT-2000, I have this on file, figure it would > be useful for future googling of the list if > this were here as well.? May be a repeat of info from an earlier post, > or maybe elsewhere. > > I didn't save the source of the info, but looks like someone named Matt > Millman did it. > > The setup is as follows: HP Envy laptop running MOP boot daemon, > connected to Lantronix LTX-C twisted pair > ethernet to AUI converter (not the same as a twisted pair MAU). This is > then connected to a cabletron coax > MAU with a 10BASE5 vampire tap. The coax runs over to another MAU, which > is connected via an AUI cable to > my VXT2000. I didn't think of it, but it would have been nice to have a > real DEC MAU on the VXT2000, I've > got several DEC h4000's I could have used. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5T2GlAN2N4 > > http://tech.mattmillman.com/projects/10base5/ The first link is mine actually. (Hi, I'm Joe from Joe's Vax Repair and More). I have a VXT-2000 and have had it setup and booting on a few occasions. I also happened into some 10BASE5 equipment a few years back and the VXT2000 was one of the only AUI devices I had at the time. I'm not Matt Millman, but I did reference that site to find the existence of the Lantronix LTX-C and similar devices. Now that I have more AUI gear, I plan to put different gear on the 3-node AUI segment (cisco 2511 router, media converter to 10BASE2, VAXStation 3200) and move the other 10Mb equipment to a 10BASE2 segment. The whole mess will be joined to the main network via T1 on a Kentrox CSU/DSU on the 2511. You can boot the VXT2000 using MOP or BOOTP and TFTP actually. MOP was the first thing I managed to get working, but BOOTP and TFTP worked equally well once I had it set up correctly. Unfortunately my bootptab file is on a roommate's MicroVAX II... Anyway, see the links section here for the software: https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/DEC_VXT2000 There's also theoretically OpenBSD and NetBSD support for the VXT2000, but in my experience the netboot stuff is pretty broken on VAX for whatever reason. There's at least one bug for the SGEC ethernet chip driver, and I could only get older versions of the network boot mop file to load. Of course, the older versions wouldn't support the newer kernel format, which apparently changed at some point. Or maybe I'm just doing something wrong. If the machine in question gets repaired, feel free to contact me with any questions. If you're familiar with netbooting VAX systems, it's not too hard to figure out though. I'll add that the note about the 9V supply being isolated sounds reasonable. It could be used as the supply for the built-in 10BASE2 MAU on some units. I can't confirm as my unit has 10BASET instead which has no requirement for an isolated supply.

5 years, 9 months

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