- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

The PDP-9 at the RICM uses a bunch of B602 Pulse Amplifiers. One in the Processor Microcode clock circuit is intermittent. The transistors are listed in the Schematic as DEC-6A and DEC-6B. The parts are marked DEC-2894-3A and DEC-2894-2B. Can I substitute 2N2894 parts for these transistors? -- Michael Thompson

12 years, 5 months

1
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(broken) PCs and writing DD 5.25" media

by jules.richardson99＠gmail.com

So, I've got a PC here with a brain-dead BIOS that only acknowledges 3.5" HD drives. Ugh. I can hook up a 5.25" HD drive instead and override the BIOS type when booting Linux (passing "floppy=0,2,cmos" to the kernel), and that seems to work. However, when hooking up a (good) 5.25" DD drive (and using "floppy=0,1,cmos") I consistently get I/O errors. Anyone have any theories as to what the problem might be? Maybe the FDC in the machine just plain doesn't support 250k/s transfer rates (unfortunately I don't have any 3.5" DD media to test that by formatting a disk in a 3.5" HD drive) - but that would seem like a weird feature to abandon? Formatting 5.25" DD media in the HD drive *appears* to work, but I assume that will be using a 300k/s rate rather than 250 (and of course the narrower head width makes it pointless anyway) I can haul another PC out of storage with a better BIOS/FDC, but I'm still curious as to what the problem might be with this setup. Linux just identifies the FDC as a "post-1991 82077" (for which 250k support is claimed), but I expect it's a reimplementation within a larger I/O chip rather than a discrete FDC IC. cheers Jules

12 years, 5 months

3
3
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A source for MacOS 9 updates

by lproven＠gmail.com

After a few hours' work, my old 300MHz beige G3 tower, pulled from a dank corner of the garage, is up and running again with a stonking 384MB of RAM and a clean install of MacOS 9.2.2. All praise to the University of Glasgow for hosting free International English (etc.) versions of the 9.x updaters! http://www.gla.ac.uk/~gwm1h/macos9/ -- Liam Proven * Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lproven at cix.co.uk * GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com * Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 * Cell: +44 7939-087884

12 years, 5 months

2
1
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Atari 400

by terry＠webweavers.co.nz

I always love dragging out the Atari 400 and taking those classic games for a spin. Here is another one of my video remakes for those who might be interested. http://youtu.be/UNf8OQaud2M Tez

12 years, 5 months

3
3
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Anyone Have PDP11/04 mounting rails?

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

Does anyone have rails to rack mount a PDP11/04 that they would be willing to part with? Preferably in the UK. Thanks Rob

12 years, 5 months

1
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windows 98 updates

by rmx44＠aim.com

looking to run one of my computers on 98se and am looking to find the updates for 98se the archived updates and not the unofficial service pack but the updates all the way up to july 2006 if anyone knows where to get them let me know

12 years, 5 months

3
4
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New ChiClassicComp RSS Feed

by silent700＠gmail.com

The slowly-growing document archive at Chicago Classic Computing now has an RSS feed! Now you can receive notice of newly-posted scans on your desktop, in your pocket or on whatever device you've hacked TCP/IP and RSS onto. The address is: http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/content/rss.xml Thanks much legalize for his script and AEK and others for their help getting it going on our site. -- jht

12 years, 5 months

1
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Vintage Computer Meeting in Switzerland

by vermeulen.oscar＠gmail.com

Hi, Just to announce the second Vintagebytes.ch retrocomputer meeting in Lucerne, Switzerland: We meet on February 12th again with a presentation on replica's (KIM-I, Apple I, PDP-8 ) and subsequently, we will host a KIM-I repair fest. Well, two of us bring our sickly KIMs along, and there will be a third working one too. Three KIMs in a room - that's a KIM party. Feel free to bring any other vintage machine along too of course. More details are on our web site http://vintagebytes.ch/ . We look forward to meeting up with any of you living in the area! Cheers, Oscar.

12 years, 5 months

1
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Change of venue

by isking＠uw.edu

Hello everyone, FYI as of today I am no longer associated with the Living Computer Museum. Cheers -- Ian -- Ian S. King, MSCS ('06, Washington) Ph.D. Student The Information School University of Washington Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

12 years, 5 months

1
0
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compiling a Sun emulator

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I'm trying to get TME[1], a Sun emulator, compiled and I'm running into trouble. First, the Makefile is set to interpret all warnings as errors, so I can't get past the complaint about libtme/module.c assigning a value to a variable but not doing anything with it. I disabled this in configure.in, but when I rebuild the configure script with aclocal && automake -a -c -f && autoconf, I get a complaint like this: thoth:/usr/local/src/tme-0.8$ make cd . && /bin/bash /usr/local/src/tme-0.8/missing --run automake-1.11 --gnu Makefile.am:7: `pkglibdir' is not a legitimate directory for `DATA' make: *** [Makefile.in] Error 1 Any ideas? [1] http://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/ -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu

12 years, 5 months

7
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SCSI2SD

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 02:19 PM 1/30/2014, Ethan Dicks wrote: >I'd also like to find a supply of inexpensive MicroSD cards smaller >than 4GB. The best I found from a few minutes of trolling eBay was >lots of 10 and 25 for around $2-3 each for 128MB or 256MB. I'd rather >find a lot of 25-50 for $1-$2 each. I certainly don't need to go out >and get a stack of 4GB MicroSD for $5-$6 retail if I'm not going to >use 90% of the capacity. How hard would be be for these SCSI to SD adapters to behave as if they were several drives, thereby giving you a chance to use all of that capacity? At those prices, though, it's hard to quibble. At 12:31 PM 1/30/2014, Zane Healy wrote: >I wonder how well it would work in a PDP-11, VAX, or Amiga 3000. SCSI is SCSI, right? I kid, I kid. - John

12 years, 5 months

4
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Problems untarring on a UNIX PC (SysV)

by classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk

Hi folks, I'm trying to transfer some files from my PC to an AT&T UNIX PC. I've got Kermit up and running at 19200 Baud (after applying a kernel patch to increase the serial port poll rate) but the UNIX PC seems to be having trouble creating the directories from the tarball. On my Linux box I use this command inside kermit: CSEND {tar cf - file1 file2 ...} And on the UNIX PC: CRECEIVE {tar xf -} This works fine if I send files, but not directories: the UNIX PC's terminal is covered in messages like "CORE/diag/sys: cannot create". Does anyone know what I need to do to make GNU tar 1.26 produce a tar file the UNIX PC (some variant of SysV as I recall) can unpack? Thanks, -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

12 years, 5 months

2
2
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BOUNTY: HP-UX 11i v1 TCOE

by doc＠vaxen.net

Yes, it's a bit off topic, but I've beat my brains out trying to get HP to even talk about providing media. We are licensed for HP-UX 11i v1 (11.11) TCOE on several C8000 PA-RISC boxes but we don't have install media. The original media kit p/n is B6821AA, and the C8000 requires Dec 2004 or later media to boot. Concurrent 11i v1 application media (p/n 5014-1459) would be nice, but not a necessity. This is for my employer, so it's not a freebie. Please contact me off-list if you can help. Doc

12 years, 5 months

2
1
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SCSI2SD

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 02:49 PM 1/30/2014, Jonathan Katz wrote: >Volume economics. Let's broker a mass deal? If we (cctech/cctalk >population) order like 100 among all of us, there has to be some kind >of volume discount. I can think of at least 4-5 machines of my own >that I can use this tech in. There's a far larger market for this than this mailing list. I don't know why more hardware hackers don't give away their designs. Let the far east build 'em for you. - John

12 years, 5 months

1
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A New Year and a large cleanup - 2

by quapla＠xs4all.nl

As the collection of stuff I'm letting go seems a bit too much for people to take in one go, I have divided the whole into lots. A lot will be marked 'reserved' only if it is a firm reservation. Lot's do not have to be collected immediately, if needed, it can be set aside for a few months. However, in such case, 10% of the accepted offer is required as a security. Stuff can be shipped, local pickup is preferred and the stuff is located in the Netherlands. The lot list can be found at www.groenenberg.net/download/1170/ Ed -- Dit is een HTML vrije email / This is an HTML free email. Zeg NEE tegen de 'slimme' meter.

12 years, 5 months

1
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"Deciphering dissent" at Bletchley Park. TNMOC trustees' statement. | The National Museum of Computing

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

http://www.tnmoc.org/news/news-releases/deciphering-discontent-statement-tn… Dave G4UGM

12 years, 5 months

10
14
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Programming the Newton

by evan＠snarc.net

Anyone here ever program for the original Apple Newton? If so, then I'd like to interview you for an article. Must be tonight or tomorrow morning/afternoon. Send me a private email... evan at snarc.net ... thanks.

12 years, 5 months

1
0
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ASR33 parity (was: Re: "stop bits")

by bqt＠update.uu.se

On 2014-01-29 10:00, Kyle Owen<kylevowen at gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >I don't remember ever seeing a Model 33 with parity. And weren't >> >telegrams sent in 5 level code? If not at the end, then surely before >> >ASCII appeared. And of course before either, there was Morse code, which >> >doesn't come with parity either. >> > >> >All parity can do is convert garbled characters into missing characters. >> > Neither is good. Telegraph operators probably relied on having good >> >signal quality, ensuring adequate bit error rate values, at which point >> >parity is not particularly needed. And with Morse, you're probably relying >> >on skilled operators -- ECC performed by trained brain cells. > > Wikipedia seems to indicate that the Model 33 ASR sent 7-bit ASCII with > even parity. I've found that in many of the programs on my PDP-8/E, even > parity is required, which I presume stems from the Model 33 ASR days. Eh? What? There was an option for 8-bit clean communication in the ASR33, as well as other parity choices. But by default an ASR33 have *MARK* parity. And all older PDP-8 software that I've ever seen also assumes MARK parity. If you try running older PDP-8 software with your terminal set to even parity, it will not work. If you are ever near an ASR33 with a paper punch, you can easily verify that it is doing mark parity by just enabling the punch, and check what codes you get there as you type, with the ASR33 in local mode. Johnny

12 years, 5 months

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Pentium I boards

by elson＠pico-systems.com

On 01/27/2014 07:52 PM, Derrick wrote: >> i wonder if anyone out there might have an old pentium 1 board since i >> have a few pentium 1 processors and even an amd k6-2 but i want to be >> able to use the processors and maybe build up a nice old windows 95 box >> or something nice. if anyone might have any just let me know I have a Pentium Classic 100 MHz board that was working last time I fired it up, which was quite some time ago. But, other than replacing the CMOS battery, it ought to be OK. It is an Intel brand motherboard. Jon

12 years, 5 months

4
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DEC Data Retrieval

by bqt＠update.uu.se

On 2014-01-28 18:59, Zane Healy<healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > > On Jan 28, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Paul Koning<paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote: > >> >But BRU produces something structurally different from VMS save sets, doesn?t it? > It's been so long since I've looked at any of this, I honestly don't remember. I was thinking that RSX-11 backups would be readable by at least some versions of VMS. No. VMS BACKUP cannot read RSX BRU format savesets. But you can (could) run BRU on VMS... >> >RSTS Backup actually generates VMS save sets, the same format. > That's good to know. Right. Different PDP-11 OSes use different formats, so it's not really meaningful to ask about "PDP-11 backup". You need to specify which backup format you are talking about. I think I know of at least four. RSX used to use something called DSC (which stood for Disc Save and Compress), which was eventually replaced by BRU. I assume RSTS/E had some backup format in the older days. With RSTS/E V9 (I think it was), a new backup utility was created, which is the VMS compatible one. I'm not aware if RT-11 also had some backup tool, but I would assume so. Johnny

12 years, 5 months

4
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1541 Alignment disk

by n2dvm＠arrl.net

>Message: 6 >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 14:39:21 -0800 >From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: 1541 Alignment disk >Message-ID: <52DC5419.7020309 at sydex.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >On 01/19/2014 12:45 PM, geneb wrote: > > > I'm pretty sure Dan is after an analog alignment disk. There was a > > vendor mentioned here a couple of weeks ago, but I don't recall their name. > >Accurite: > >http://www.accurite.com/AAD.html > >--Chuck Ok, which disk would I purchase then?

12 years, 5 months

19
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Fax (was Re: Nine technologies that have faded into history)

by spacewar＠gmail.com

On Jan 29, 2014 9:36 AM, "Paul Koning" <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote: > > > On Jan 28, 2014, at 10:55 PM, tom <thomas.w.cranston at gmail.com> wrote: > > >> ... > > Legal - In some parts of the world documents faxed are considered legal, as if the had been hand delivered. > > The USA is such a place. I don't recall the exact wording, but basically any setup that scans a physical document, transfers a representation over a telecommunication system, and recreates it as s physical document again meets the US legal definition of facsimile. There doesn't have to be a "fax machine" as you would normally consider it, and Internet email should qualify for the telecommunication, but if the document doesn't start and end in physical form, it isn't a fax. In other words, if I sign a paper contract, scan it, email it to someone, and they print it, it has been faxed. But if I start with a PDF file, sign it in a graphics program, and email that, it has not been faxed because it did not originate as a physical document. If the PDF was originally a scan of a paper document, but I fill it in digitally, then email it, that's not a fax because the electronic document is not an accurate, unaltered representation of a physical document. [I'm not a lawyer, so take this with a suitably large grain of salt.]

12 years, 5 months

5
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Nine technologies that have faded into history

by trash80＠internode.on.net

(Apologies if this appears twice - original sent to wrong address which may or may not arrive :-) May be of interest to some list members - appeared in The Age today. <http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/business-it/nine-technologies-that-have-fad ed-into-history-20140128-hva22.html> ++++++++++ Kevin Parker ++++++++++

12 years, 5 months

16
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ASR33 parity (was: Re: "stop bits")

by bqt＠update.uu.se

On 2014-01-29 14:13, Kyle Owen<kylevowen at gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 1:51 PM, Johnny Billquist<bqt at update.uu.se> wrote: > >> > >> >Eh? What? There was an option for 8-bit clean communication in the ASR33, >> >as well as other parity choices. But by default an ASR33 have*MARK* parity. >> >And all older PDP-8 software that I've ever seen also assumes MARK parity. >> >If you try running older PDP-8 software with your terminal set to even >> >parity, it will not work. >> > >> >If you are ever near an ASR33 with a paper punch, you can easily verify >> >that it is doing mark parity by just enabling the punch, and check what >> >codes you get there as you type, with the ASR33 in local mode. >> > >> > Johnny >> > > I punched this tape on a Model 33 ASR in local mode and it seems to have > even parity. Bonus points for deciphering it!:) > > http://i.imgur.com/R3GPWIS.jpg Indeed. So you have the parity option installed in your ASR33. I punched a bit of paper tape on an ASR33 only two weeks ago, which did not. Unfortunately I didn't keep the paper, but that one certainly did not have a parity option installed, so it was pretty obvious what the "default" for parity is on an ASR33... I'm tempted to decode it, but don't have the time right now... > I'll try some more software with mark parity, but I believe CHECKMO II (the > chess game) really wants even parity. Please do. I would be surprised. But who knows. But I know OS/8 inside and out (pretty much), and believe me. Older software really do use MARK parity in general. (And, like I said, I verified the ASR33 only two weeks ago. Besides, the ASR33 manuals are online, and you can check it there too. I've read them in the past, and they also say that it is mark parity.) Johnny

12 years, 5 months

3
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"Deciphering dissent" at Bletchley Park. TNMOC trustees'statement. | The National Museum of Computing

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

There is a link to the official BP response on The Register. Sorry not easily able to send link from here Rob -----Original Message----- From: "Dave Caroline" <dave.thearchivist at gmail.com> Sent: ?29/?01/?2014 17:05 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: "Deciphering dissent" at Bletchley Park. TNMOC trustees'statement. | The National Museum of Computing In this context Trustees are the people who make sure a charity/museum follows its objects ( statements of what the entities primary purpose is). They are sometimes independent of the entity or may combine with being a director/officer of the entity. Dave Caroline On 29/01/2014, Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at update.uu.se> wrote: > You can colour me stupid if you like. But I thought that statement is > from the TNMOC trustees. > > And for a non-Brit, what is a trustee in this context? > > /P > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:21:12PM +0800, Simon Fryer wrote: >> That is the official statement. >> >> >> On 29 January 2014 18:25, Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at update.uu.se> wrote: >> >> > The picture painted of The Bletchley Park Trust is not very flatering, >> > have they made an official statement? >> > >> > /P >> > >> > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 07:57:18AM +0000, Dave Wade wrote: >> > > >> > http://www.tnmoc.org/news/news-releases/deciphering-discontent-statement-tn… >> > > >> > > Dave >> > > G4UGM >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Simon >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> "Well, an engineer is not concerned with the truth; that is left to >> philosophers and theologians: the prime concern of an engineer is >> the utility of the final product." >> Lectures on the Electrical Properties of Materials, L.Solymar, D.Walsh >

12 years, 5 months

3
2
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DEC Data Retrieval

by bqt＠update.uu.se

On 2014-01-29 10:00, Paul Koning<paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote: > > On Jan 29, 2014, at 1:39 AM, Johnny Billquist<bqt at Update.UU.SE> wrote: > >> >Right. Different PDP-11 OSes use different formats, so it's not really meaningful to ask about "PDP-11 backup". You need to specify which backup format you are talking about. >> >I think I know of at least four. >> > >> >RSX used to use something called DSC (which stood for Disc Save and Compress), which was eventually replaced by BRU. > There was an irreverent reading for DSC: ?disk smash and corrupt?. Ayup. I usually pretend I've never heard of DSC. :-) > I forgot what IAS (and RSX11-D) used. DSC possibly. Yes. As far as I can remember. I'm also pretty sure IAS got BRU by the end. >> >I assume RSTS/E had some backup format in the older days. With RSTS/E V9 (I think it was), a new backup utility was created, which is the VMS compatible one. > V9 sounds right. It was coincident with support for streaming tape drives, which needed asynchronous (queued) I/O to work properly, and that in turn meant serious work on the backup program. The designer decided to adopt the VMS backup format as a good one to use (because of things like XOR block redundancy and CRC data integrity checks). Makes sense, and it's a nice idea to use the same format. In a way, it would have been nice if RSX had done the same. BRU, while good in many ways, is a hairy piece of code. It could have used another rewrite... > Before then there was a crude program also called Backup (but entirely unrelated) that could do partial backups. And an entirely different program called SAVRES (save/restore) that would do whole disk backup but could, I think, do partial restores. And going back even further, there was ROLLIN ? that?s just a full disk image copy, to another identical disk, or DECtape(s) (or perhaps also magtape, I don?t remember). None of those older programs were compatible with any other OS. SAVRES and ROLLIN rings bells, now that you mention them. Thanks. :-) >> >I'm not aware if RT-11 also had some backup tool, but I would assume so. > There?s always PIP, of course. Of course. But that implies some structure on the tape that (at least under RSX) is outside the control of PIP. But yes, DOS-11 is the plain format for files on tapes used by RT-11, as far as I know. Johnny

12 years, 5 months

1
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NEC uPD7201 misfeature, and V.14 (was Re: NEC uPD7201C Datasheet, Pinout?)

by spacewar＠gmail.com

The NEC uPD7201(A) and Intel 8274 have a misfeature that makes them almost unusable with modems that employ synchronous modulation (which is almost all common PSTN modems at bit rates of 1200 bps or higher, except bell 202 and V.23), except when an error control (e.g. MNP or V.42) used between the modems and flow control is used between the modem and the 7201/8274. The problem is that due to rate mismatches between the hosts, and between the host and the modem's sychronous modulation, the receiving end modem may receive data at a slightly higher rate than it can be sent over the asynchronous serial line to receiving host. In order to deal with this, the receiving modem is allowed to send the characters to the receiving host with a stop bit that is shorter than usual. The stop bits can be as short as 7/8 of a bit time, or (optionally for an extended signalling range, which I've never actually uses) as short as 3/4 of a bit time. This stop bit shaving is part of the ITU-T V.14 standard. Most UARTs don't have any problem with it, as they typically only sample the start bit at the middle of the expected bit time. However, the 7201/8274 looks at at least one sample in the bit time, and will consider a shaved stop bit to be a framing error, which IIRC causes the loss of at least the next character and usually multiple consecutive characters. This was a huge problem with 1200 bps and 2400 bps modems on the AT&T 7300 and 3B1 "Unix PC" before the error control protocols (MNP or V.42) became commonly available in modems. I learned far more than I (n)ever wanted to know about V.14 when I worked at Telebit, especially when I was in charge of adding Appletalk Remote Access Protocol (ARAP) support to the NetBlazer router. ARAP used MNP 3 and V.42bis compession (a non-standard configuration) on the Macintosh, and required that any error control (MNP or V.42) and compession be disabled in the modem. This was done because Apple engineers found at the time that hardware flow control between the Macintosh and commodity modems was unreliable, due to limitations of both. We were implementing a multiline ARAP server on the NetBlazer router and didn't have enough CPU power to do compession for more than a few lines. Since we only officially supported use of our own modems on the NetBlazer, the solution was for us to implement the unusual combination of MNP 3 and V.42bis in our modems (T1600, T3000, and WorldBlazer), and rely on reliable flow control between the router and the modem. Running V.42bis compression used nearly all of the available CPU cycles of the modem. We also had to deal with another aspect of V.14, stop bit deletion, which happens when the async data to be transmitted is overspeed with regard to the modulation. It allows the transmiting modem to completely discard the stop bit of up to one out of eight consecutive characters (one of four for dxtended rate), and the receiving side has to reinsert them. Our modem used an SCC channel of the MC68302 to send clocked asynchronous characters to the DSP bit pump (when not using V.42 error control, and V.42 is not used when dping MNP 3). Unfortunately the SCC channel doesn't know about V.14 stop bit deletion (or the corresponding reinsertion on receive), so the SCC has to be used in "raw" mode rather than clocked asynchronous mode, which means that the control CPU has to run a software UART to convert the character stream to a suitable raw bit stream for the SCC. A softwate UART is a piece of cake, you might say, and normally you'd be right. Unfortunately the modem engineers had written the world's fanciest, all-singing, all-dancing software UART, which took nearly all of the CPU time of the control processor. Which was normally fine, since you never used V.42bis compression over an asynchronous data stream over the synchronous modulation. Except, of course, when you're running V.42bis compression over MNP 3 error control to support ARAP. I offered to write a more efficient software UART, using under 10% of the CPU instead of over 70%, and the modem engineers claimed that it couldn't be done. The fundamental problem was that their software UART was in fact doing everything a single bit at a time. To do it efficiently, you do as much as possible a byte at a time, using a few kilobytes of data tables to assist. Another problem was that the modem control code was written as a series of tasks that all were called in round-robin sequence all of the time, whether there was anything to do or not. There was no easy way to determine CPU utilization because you couldn't do it as the complement of the idle time because there was no idle time to measure. Even when it was doing nothing it was running full-tilt. I'm told that eventually Apple switched from their wacky proprietary ARAP protocol to PPP, with the modem doing normal V.42 error control and V.42bis compression, but by then I had moved on to other projects that were less Sisyphean. Somewhat by coincidence, before working for Telebit I worked at Apple doing QA for (among other things) the Macintosh MNP 3 and V.42 drivers used by Appletalk Remote Access, then known by the codename "976". Eric

12 years, 5 months

12
55
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Units (was Re: "stop bits"; was: NEC uPD7201 misfeature)

by spacewar＠gmail.com

On Jan 29, 2014 11:36 AM, "Paul Koning" <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote: > Or "pounds" for mass. That one seems controversial, depending on which standards organization or reference you consider definitive. The slug is the Imperial unit of mass, but the US pound is ambiguous, and the avoirdupois pound is definitely a unit of mass. All the more reason to ditch the pound for kilograms and newtons. > Or "kilograms" for force. Atrocious!

12 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

APEX / XPL0

by john＠yoyodyne-propulsion.net

Anyone got a copy of APEX / XPL0 for the Apple ][? I don't know why I didn't have it back in the day, it would have been perfect for what I was trying to do. It probably cost a bunch of money and I was a kid... -- Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow" Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net -------- "It's easy to win. Anybody can win." -- Philip K. Dick, A Scanner Darkly

12 years, 5 months

4
8
0 0

Recovering OS/8 Device Handlers

by rick＠rickmurphy.net

At 02:32 PM 1/28/2014, Kyle Owen wrote: > >From the OS/8 Software Support Manual, I can see that the handlers > should >be located within blocks 16 through 25, octal. Should I be attempting to >dump those blocks and try to reverse engineer it that way, or is there a >way in OS/8 to directly dump each individual handler? I don't remember any way to do this "directly", but you can write a tiny program that does a FETCH on a handler, which then loads it into memory. Now you can open a file and write a copy of that handler to disk. Reverse engineering it would mean looking at the handler table that RESORC displays and using that to determine what block on the disk contains each handler. -Rick

12 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Helios for Transputer

by kylevowen＠gmail.com

Hi all, I am attempting to get Helios running on a 64-core T805-based Transputer array. This is a one-of-a-kind system with a custom case. It uses a single-board 486DX with 8MB of RAM on an ISA card for the host system. The PC front end runs Windows 3.1 or MS-DOS 6. There are eight T805s on eight custom cards. It doesn't use TRAMs, but I have a feeling these are wired like such on the board. Pictures of the system can be found here: http://imgur.com/a/fCA3C I've been getting all of my Helios editions from http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer/helios.htm. I first tried version 1.1, and after copying the contents over to the hard drive from a single floppy disk, running the server results in an error: ns : Incompatible version of Rmap 6e627573 ns : error is fatal, exiting. I finally got 1.31 working on the system by downloading another DOS executable of the server and playing with some configurations. I also used ispy and mtest to see the structure of the system, which uses several C004 cross links. Unfortunately, ispy only reports a single T805-25 processor connected to the host at address 0x150. Does anyone have any ideas as to why the other 63 T805s and several C004s aren't showing up? Thanks in advance, Kyle

12 years, 5 months

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Using two RL02 drives on OS/8? (cont'd)

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 01:55:51 -0600, you wrote: >From: Rick Murphy <rick at rickmurphy.net> >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Using two RL02 drives on OS/8? (cont'd) >Message-ID: <201401280235.s0S2Z0Es004934 at rickmurphy.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >At 04:13 PM 1/27/2014, Charles wrote: > >>More info. OS/8 is running on Drive 0. I am able to use RLFRMT (or >>RL2FMT) to format the pack in Drive 1 (and it does not access or >>overwrite Drive 0)... so at least SOME part of OS/8 recognizes that >>there are two RL02 drives! > >Those programs access the drive hardware directly and don't use OS/8 >for anything. > > >>BUILD defaults to DSK=SYS if SYS is not changed. BUILD showed >>initially DSK=RL20:R2A0 which is indeed the same as SYS. >> >>However, if a SYS command is issued during BUILD, according to the >>manual when issuing the BOOT command it is supposed to ask if you want >>a new DSK or not. This does not happen - it just says "SYS BUILT" and >>goes back to the dot prompt. >> >>I found that I can manually type DSK=RL21:R2A1 in BUILD and it accepts >>that without error. Then a "SAVE SYS BUILD 0-7577, 10000-17577=0;200" >>per the manual. >>At that point, rubbing BUILD again shows DSK=RL21:R2A1. OK so far. >> >>But when I ask OS/8 for the directories of each partition on RL21: >>(R2A1, R2B1, R2C1, R2D1) what is displayed is the corresponding >>directory of RL20: (R2A0, R2B0, R2C0, R2D0)! The Drive 1 light never >>flashes. > >You can't change DSK to a device that doesn't have an active handler. > >And, your unit convention is wrong - OS/8's device name mapping scheme >is a pain, so you have to be careful how you reference things. > >What you should have in BUILD for this configuration is the following >drivers: >R0AB which gives devices R20A and R20B >R0CD which gives devices R20C and R20D >R01E which gives devices R20E and R21E >R1AB which gives devices R21A and R21B >R1CD which gives devices R21C and R21D > >If you don't have those, you'll have to LOAD them into build. > >So, you need to insert the drivers for drive one: >$ RUN SYS BUILD > >$ IN R1AB:R21A >$ IN R1AB:R21B >$ IN R1CD:R21C >$ IN R1CD:R21D >$ IN R01E:R21E > >If you have enough driver slots, of course. Now device R21A: will go to >the right place. >The unit number is hard coded into the drivers so you need to use a >driver binary built for the right unit number. > -Rick Thanks for the info, Rick! That sheds considerable light on my puzzlement. Although I won't have enough slots to use the "wedgies" (the small E partitions), 80% of two RL02's is more than enough! However. Where do I find the R0AB, R0CD, R1AB, R1CD drivers? They don't appear to be on the diagpack2.rk05 image where all the "good" OS/8 stuff seems to be. All I see there is: RL0 .BH 2 4-JAN-81 RL1 .BH 2 4-JAN-81 RL20 .BH 2 4-JAN-81 RL21 .BH 2 4-JAN-81 RL2E .BH 2 4-JAN-81 RL2SY .BH 2 4-JAN-81 RLC .BH 2 4-JAN-81 RLSY .BH 2 4-JAN-81 Of those, RLSY, RL0, RL1 and RLC are for an RL01 drive; RL2SY, RL20, RL21 (which I have installed) and RL2E (which I omitted as noted above) are for RL02. Also the only OS/8 Extensions manual I can locate is the one that shows how to install and boot an RL01, not a pair of RL02's.... I think most of the RL02's ended up on PDP-11 systems ;) -Charles

12 years, 5 months

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BYTE collection available

by jlw＠jlw.com

Could I interest anyone in my collection of BYTE magazines, dating from issue #16 (DEC 76) to Vol 12 No 2 (FEB 87), missing Vol 11 No 11, for pickup in the San Francisco Bay area in California? -- Jeff Woolsey {woolsey,jlw}(a){jlw,jxh}.com first.last(a){gmail,hp,jlw}.com Spum bad keming. Nature abhors a straight antenna, a clean lens, and unused storage capacity. "Delete! Delete! OK!" -Dr. Bronner on disk space management "Card sorting, Joel." -me, re Solitaire

12 years, 5 months

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DEC Data Retrieval

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I have some compatibility questions. Has OpenVMS lost the ability to restore older VAX/VMS save sets, and can it restore those from a PDP-11? Zane -- healyzh at aracnet.com http://www.zanesphotography.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/zanes-photography/ https://www.facebook.com/ZanesPhotography

12 years, 5 months

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BYTE collection available

by gerard.timbert＠free.fr

Quote : >> Could I interest anyone in my collection of BYTE magazines, dating from issue #16 (DEC 76) to Vol 12 No 2 (FEB 87), missing Vol 11 No 11, for pickup in the San Francisco Bay area in California? << Hello, Did this collection find a good home ?? Else, maybe I can offer one. Regards, Gerard --- Ce courrier ?lectronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malveillant parce que la protection avast! Antivirus est active. http://www.avast.com

12 years, 5 months

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Recovering OS/8 Device Handlers

by kylevowen＠gmail.com

All this talk about RL01/02s and RK05s has reminded me that it would be nice to get the device handler for my dual Xebec hard sector floppy drives connected to my -8/M. I have only a couple of bootable disks with a couple of versions of OS/8. A lot of them are corrupted from best I can tell. I've developed a way to dump all of the readable blocks from disk over the serial port, which, as you can imagine, does take a while. I've also developed a little program that can parse the data into RIM format to be disassembled. >From the OS/8 Software Support Manual, I can see that the handlers should be located within blocks 16 through 25, octal. Should I be attempting to dump those blocks and try to reverse engineer it that way, or is there a way in OS/8 to directly dump each individual handler? Any tips would be much appreciated. Thanks, Kyle

12 years, 5 months

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Prime?

by jon＠jonworld.com

On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu> wrote: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superminicomputer > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minisupercomputer > > Oi! Prime does not Cray! Does anyone even have any running Prime gear anymore?

12 years, 5 months

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running SunOS 4.1.4 under emulation

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I quit fiddling around with TME and went to QEMU like I should have in the first place. Following this page exactly: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/QEMU/SunOS_4.1.4, I got barfage that looked like this: Extracting the sunos 4.1.4 sun4m 'uucp' media file. Extracting the sunos 4.1.4 sun4m 'Games' media file. Extracting the sunos 4.1.4 sun4m 'Versatec' media file. /usr/etc/install/tar/export/exec/sun4_sunos_4_1_4/versatec: cannot extract file. add_services: 'tar xpfb /usr/etc/install/tar/export/exec/sun4_sunos_4_1_4/versatec 32k 2>> /etc/install/suninstall.log' failed. Please check local media device /usr/etc/install/tar/export/exec/sun4_sunos_4_1_4/versatec Press <return> to continue You have sunos 4.1.4 sun4m release media volume -1 mounted Please mount sunos 4.1.4 sun4m release media volume 1 Press <return> to continue I upgraded QEMU. That didn't fix the problem. Then I looked at my SunOS 4.1.4 iso. The file export/exec/sun4_sunos_4_1_4/versatec is a corrupted tar. I can manually exclude that package, but I'd like to have something that really works all the way, particularly for when I get my hands on my real Sun hardware again. Does anyone know where I can find a known-good ISO? The md5sum of my iso is this: 927fa22042a70bf21a80be9393b15770 sunos_4.1.4_install.iso Second question... With the resulting install of SunOS 4.1.4, I'm having trouble getting the emulation talking to the outside world. Through trial-and-error, I figured out that QEMU is assigning the guest the IP of 192.9.200.1 and the host as 192.9.200.2. Plugging these into what I see at the wikibooks.org page, I get results that seem like things went okay, but pings and telnets timeout. What did I miss? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu

12 years, 5 months

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RL02 drives with PDP-8 vs. PDP-11?

by nf6x＠nf6x.net

The thread on using two RL02 drives with OS8 made me think about this, but I didn't want to confuse that thread with my tangential topic. Is there any difference in RL02 drives and/or disk packs for PDP-8 systems vs. PDP-11 systems (other than the obviously different controller cards for OMNIBUS/UNIBUS/etc.)? If so, how do I evaluate and identify the specialized bits and pieces? I ask this because I have a few RL02 drives waiting for my PDP-11/44 project, as well as a pile of RL02 disk packs. If there are differences for PDP-8 vs. PDP-11 applications, i.e. due to different word sizes, then I'll need to keep my eyes open for mismatched parts in my pile. Conversely, if and when I get a PDP-8 system with an RL02 controller card, I'll wonder whether I can use any of the pieces I already have. I seem to recall reading in recent months about some DEC drive and/or disk pack that would have different hard sector notches or some such thing for PDP-8 vs. PDP-11 applications, but I don't recall which type of drive it was. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> http://www.nf6x.net/

12 years, 5 months

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minimum temps for running old hardware?

by mtapley＠swri.edu

On Jan 27, 2014, at 7:17 PM, Grumpy ol? Fred wrote: > "REAL computers make their own heat." Hah! Another proposal for computer classification! Microcomputer : can keep a bread-box warm. Minicomputer: can keep a basement warm. Server: can keep a warehouse warm. Supercomputer: can keep a time zone warm. Fred, you da man!

12 years, 5 months

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RL02 drives with PDP-8 vs. PDP-11?

by bqt＠update.uu.se

On 2014-01-27 23:55, Ian King<IanK at LivingComputerMuseum.org wrote: > RK05 drives are hard-sectored, as you mention. RL02s are not, and the > same packs will work on either. The only hard constraint is RL01 vs. RL02 > - you can't use an RL02 pack in an RL01 or vice versa. -- Ian K7PDP True, with a caveat. You can modify an RL02 drive to be capable of reading both RL01 and RL02 packs, but it requires a hardware hack. When I worked at DEC, we had such a drive. However, an RL02 drive cannot reliably write RL01 packs. Johnny

12 years, 5 months

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pentium 1 boards

by rmx44＠aim.com

i wonder if anyone out there might have an old pentium 1 board since i have a few pentium 1 processors and even an amd k6-2 but i want to be able to use the processors and maybe build up a nice old windows 95 box or something nice. if anyone might have any just let me know

12 years, 5 months

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Antic episode 7 now out!

by dm561＠torfree.net

----- Original Message ----- Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:44:33 +0000 From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> Subject: Re: Antic episode 7 now out! > ...If someone appears in one of those corners and top-posts everywhere, > they badge themselves as a clueless newbie who couldn't be bothered to go > to the minimal effort of learning how things work and how to participate. > This person is therefore very unlikely to be a useful member of that > community; in fact, they're more likely to worsen the signal:noise ratio > and thus contribute to its decline.... --- Reply: --- I happen to think that what actually "worsens the signal:noise ratio and contributes to a list's decline" is folks who feel the need to repeatedly comment publicly on hoary old topics like this one and insult people who have a different perspective, knowing full well that it will inevitably derail the original thread and generate a number of off-topic posts like this one. Some quite clever and useful people find top-posting more efficient; get used to it! And if your purpose really was to 'educate' the OP instead of just being rude and insulting in public, why not do it off-list.

12 years, 5 months

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Using two RL02 drives on OS/8? (cont'd)

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

>It's working again! > >I made a new RL02 pack using vtserver on my other machine (11/23+), which takes a while to transmit 7.8 MB even at 19200 baud, put it in the 8/A drive 0, held my breath, flipped the boot switch... and got the "." prompt on the terminal :) > >So the problem that started this whole mess was an IDC connector that I had improperly crimped, inside one of the RL02 drives, so that I could run ribbon cable to the RL8A instead of buying the expensive BC80xx cable. Lesson learned. Bought a BC80J-20! > >That short circuit was somewhere in the write data lines, which apparently then wiped out the OS/8 pack so it wouldn't boot any more. > >Lastly, my incorrectly seated quad extender card was introducing errors even after fixing the cable problems, and I wasted several hours chasing that... I may invest in a hex-height extender card to avoid this problem in the future! > >On the other hand, I now have a serial interface on the desktop PC from which I can download programs direct to the 8/A. The next thing is to learn how to use Philipp Hachtmann's KL8E in FPGA to download through a laptop USB port at high speed. It looks like I can just change the few IOT instructions of the RIM and BIN loaders to match the card's switch settings. Trying to get Windows to put binary files out a USB port will be more fun, I'm sure. > >Meanwhile, back to the original problem! My build of OS/8 does not recognize that there are two RL02 drives in the system... which is how I think this thread got started in the first place quite some time ago :) > More info. OS/8 is running on Drive 0. I am able to use RLFRMT (or RL2FMT) to format the pack in Drive 1 (and it does not access or overwrite Drive 0)... so at least SOME part of OS/8 recognizes that there are two RL02 drives! BUILD defaults to DSK=SYS if SYS is not changed. BUILD showed initially DSK=RL20:R2A0 which is indeed the same as SYS. However, if a SYS command is issued during BUILD, according to the manual when issuing the BOOT command it is supposed to ask if you want a new DSK or not. This does not happen - it just says "SYS BUILT" and goes back to the dot prompt. I found that I can manually type DSK=RL21:R2A1 in BUILD and it accepts that without error. Then a "SAVE SYS BUILD 0-7577, 10000-17577=0;200" per the manual. At that point, rubbing BUILD again shows DSK=RL21:R2A1. OK so far. But when I ask OS/8 for the directories of each partition on RL21: (R2A1, R2B1, R2C1, R2D1) what is displayed is the corresponding directory of RL20: (R2A0, R2B0, R2C0, R2D0)! The Drive 1 light never flashes. RESORC shows the following: (6442) 37* (6542) 37 (6642) 37* (6742) 37* (6443) 37* (6543) 37* (6643) 37 (6743) 37 OS/8 V3T so it looks like there are eight different partitions in RESORC, although not all of them have an "*" (does that mean the same "active" as it does in BUILD)? I'm wondering if DSK is, in fact, *not* being changed to the other drive - but then why is there not an error when attempting to get a directory of, say, RL21:R2A1 if it still thinks I'm accessing RL20:R2A0? This has me stumped. Any OS/8 gurus, please help :)

12 years, 5 months

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NEC uPD7201C Datasheet, Pinout?

by holm＠freibergnet.de

Hi guys, I've looked trough my Z80 Stuff some minutes before b'cause a friend wanted an Z80A CPU, ok found it. In a Bag 6 uPD780-1 which are also Z80A's, I found two uPD7201C. I've googeled some time before that the uPD7201A is some Z80-SIO - alike, has an other Pinout for example and should be compatible to some Intel chip which is mostly a clone of the Z80-SIO also. (maybe to give the Intel world acess to a usable USART to this time) But: I can't find a datashet for the uPD7201C using google or the usual suspects, can someone help out here? I think possibly this isn't just a different letter, maybe it means that this is the Zilog compatible Version with the Zilog Pinout? Does anyone know something about it or has a datasheet? Next interesting thing are 10 pcs. of NS405-B18N, a sticker says that that are display processors, someone knows where tehy where used in? Kind Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741

12 years, 5 months

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Disk read issues on track 0 with OSI 4P

by philip＠neoncluster.com

Hi all, I've been struggling with getting my Ohio Scientific + MPI floppy drive system working for almost 2 years now. It's been by far my longest 'on and off' project, and in the process I've all but rebuilt the entire drive. I have been using a program for the OSI called DISKREAD which basically just dumps what data it reads from the disk to the screen. Up until recently I wasn't having much luck seeing anything meaningful, but after some more playing around I was finally able to see some data from an OSI boot disk that indeed looked good. I was able to cross reference what I was seeing against a disk image I downloaded off the net, and from track 1 onwards the data looks identical. The problem is track 0. Track 0 contains the boot code. When I dump track 0 it just looks all screwed up, mostly lots of 00's and FF's and F1's and FD's etc etc...basically stuff that just looks wrong. It also seems that doing subsequent passes over track 0 dumps different data each time!!!! I was just wondering if anyone knows what would cause track 0 to read bad and inconsistently, where other tracks seem to read good and consistent? Thanks for for your time. Phil

12 years, 5 months

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Philips P850 for sale in the Netherlands

by hp-fix＠xs4all.nl

Not mine, but from a friend. He has for sale a Philips P850 Processor with manuals and some peripherals (tape reader and puncher) If anyone is interested please contact me off-list for further details. -Rik

12 years, 5 months

1
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Compaq CGA card, schematics?

by phil＠viscom.net

Dave, > If the internal screen is fine then the syncs are at or close to the > proper frequency, so any problems are going to be around the NTSC > modulator, which would be fun to debug without a scope... I do have a scope- poking about down in the chassis is difficult- I don't have an ISA extension card. The composite trace drops down to the back side of the card, comes up through a resistor, goes to the light-pen header, through another resistor and vanishes into the middle layer. I could start just prodding with my meter to see where it re-surfaces... but, well, yeah. A schematic would make that easier. The image on composite "tears" horizontally. I made a video of it, hooked up to my TV set in the living room: http://youtu.be/a4jcKiSwUos > On the other hand whilst I have never tried the Composite on CGA, but I > have tried comparable modes on several other computers, including my > rather old Atari STE, and a very modern Raspberry PI and it sounds like > its working (almost) just fine. The composite out on CGA cards always > was pretty useless, and "legible, just" pretty much describes any > 80-colum output on composite. Try 40 a column mode (2 or 3)... That's in 40-col mode, above. In 80-col it goes into a text mode rather like MDA, which I haven't scoped to see if it's not present at the jack, or if the TV refuses to display it. It's remarkably crisp, considering. On a regular TV set (older, cheaper, no-name set)- http://www.flickr.com/photos/philandrews/8657681921/ Above was trying to display this- http://www.flickr.com/photos/philandrews/8660917851/ Admittedly that was all unbalanced, but I'm sure it should be a little better than that. > (Oh and my experience is with PAL, NTSC would probably be worse.....) > If you have a TV with a SCART then the circuit below would work.. > http://www.electroschematics.com/377/ > but I guess you are in the US and and your TV will have CYMG inputs. > Actually that circuit would probably work with CYMG but the colours > would be wrong. Yeah, I should have said. I moved out here to the States a number of years ago now. My TV sets have all the usual "modern" inputs for here, CATV (NTSC modulated), Composite-in, YPbPr component, HDMI and the one in the bedroom has a VGA-in. > If have a modern LCD TV with a VGA input you could try something > similar, but leaving the syncs separate and feed it into the VGA. This > might sound daft but often LCD TVs will sync to normal TV on the VGA. IT > doesn't work with monitors, but it does with some TVs. As a quick and > dirty test you could just use 470 ohms on all leads and omit the "I" > line.... I can give that a try, but it's a band-aid to the symptom. I've got another machine with CGA out and the TV displays it nicely. I'd like to be able to use the composite-out because the machine has several games on that make use of the timing inconsistencies in NTSC to create a larger color palette than the standard 4. That would, however, be useful for other applications. It's been a while since I've seen a SCART connector..! > Dave > -- > Dave Wade G4UGM > Illegitimi Non Carborundum

12 years, 5 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 125, Issue 13

by seefriek＠gmail.com

On 01/05/2014 10:01 AM, Liam Proven wrote: >So perhaps this explains the fondness and elitism about HP calculators >and RPN: that they are good for programmers. Probably 75% of the people I went to business school with (at a University not know for programming or technology, and there was no programming requirement) had HP-12C's, and most of the professors would pointedly not bother to accommodate those that cheaped out and got a non-RPN calc (usually some ridiculous TI graphing model). My brother went to a different business school a couple of years later; same thing. Even though I have stupid amounts of computing available to me, there are all sorts little financial calculations that are essentially muscle memory on my 12C. The 2 mortgage closings I've been to in my life featured lawyers double checking the financial details using HP calculators (one old school HP-37 or -38, one a tricked out HP-41 with the finance ROM). Lawyers, not programmers. My last 2 CFO's kept a 12C within arms length, and I've watched both pick them up and check the details of some deal. Not programmers. The love of my life in my 20s was a radiation physicist, and she and every single one of her colleagues carried an HP-41 with the nuclear medicine pack. Not a programmer amongst them. My current wife is a medical practice manager. Their lead radiologist has the same setup in his office, and he uses it to double check what the computers are telling him about exposures and such. Not something you want to screw up. Also not a programmer. I had to have my lot line professionally surveyed recently, and the guy who did it took all his measurements and then whipped out an HP calculator. Who knew there's a surveyor pack? He said that the surveying gear has all the smarts to do the calculations built in, but he liked to double check because he's found bugs in the gears calculations but never the HP, and he doesn't like to get screwed by filing incorrect reports. Need I say, not a programmer? I could go on. How about an alternative world view: people like RPN and HP calculators because they're the right tool for the right job. All anec-data, of course, much as you've offered. But I understand your personal perspective; when you're half-assing your way through a degree (or task, or career, whatever) you don't much care about and probably aren't much good at, you use tools that are the shortest short-cut to getting some task done, minimal effort, instead of taking time to learn tools that up your game. The world is full of second (third?) rate talent. But taking what you're doing seriously and learning the tools needed to exceed isn't always "elitism", it can just as well be professionalism. Just like it isn't "elitism" to make an effort to be accurate, factual and impartial in other professions, instead of sloppy, biased and condescending. YMMV. KJ

12 years, 5 months

20
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Odd Commodore 64 Question

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Does anyone have any advice on how to take a photograph and display it on a Commodore 64? I have a rather crazy art project in mind. Zane -- healyzh at aracnet.com http://www.zanesphotography.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/zanes-photography/ https://www.facebook.com/ZanesPhotography

12 years, 5 months

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