- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

ID UV erasable PROMS used on an IBM PC board?

by organlists1＠sonic.net

This is the CPU board out of a first generation 1982-83 IBM Electronic 85 Typewriter (Electronics Driven Selectric). I was looking to archive the software/firmware from these. The machine was exposed to some dampness. Corrosion has ensued on the interface connector between the CPU and driver boards. The next year, more energy efficient memory ICs were used. Memory power failure back up only consisted of 3 AA batteries and could last up to one year. The predecessor (this board) required 6 AA size Nicads and would only retain memory for a few hours. IBM using their apparently very large stock of OLD aluminum covered ICs in as many products possible I guess. Don Resor -----Original Message----- From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net <wrcooke at wrcooke.net> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2022 7:13 PM To: D. Resor <organlists1 at sonic.net> Subject: Re: ID UV erasable PROMS used on an IBM PC board? > On 03/20/2022 8:59 PM D. Resor via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > I cannot find a datasheet by any of the numbers silkscreened on these ICs. > > Could these be proprietary IBM P/N numbers? > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6rvemx9ldbbv5x/EPROMS1.jpg?dl=0 > > No need for a Dropbox account, close the login pop up and you can view > the image. > > Thanks > > Don Resor More details would help. What is the board? Do you know at what address in the PC memory map they fit? Based on the info you gave and the picture I would bet $1 they are standard 2764 chips. The 2764 was the first standard chip to have 28 pins. The size of the die visible through the quartz window is consistent with 2764 (as opposed to 27128 or 27256) and the fact there is room for 3 which would give 24K total. The PC didn't have a lot of places in the memory map that would allow more than 24K. Three 27128s would be 48K (a LOT in those days) and the 27256 would be 96K. I can't help with the part numbers. But I doubt they are IBM proprietary. The vast majority of chips used in the early PC line were standard from other companies. Will

4 years

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ID UV erasable PROMS used on an IBM PC board?

by organlists1＠sonic.net

I cannot find a datasheet by any of the numbers silkscreened on these ICs. Could these be proprietary IBM P/N numbers? https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6rvemx9ldbbv5x/EPROMS1.jpg?dl=0 No need for a Dropbox account, close the login pop up and you can view the image. Thanks Don Resor

4 years

2
1
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restoring a Silent 700 Model 765

by spectre＠floodgap.com

I found my old Model 745 in storage and other than needing a print head clean and adjusting the printer contrast, it works splendidly. It has the manual and I've got some plugs to build it an RS-232 connector when I find some more round tuits. This whetted my appetite for other 700s, including the (in)famous bubble memory 763/765. I was able to land a set of 765 ASRs. One of them came with Telenet transcripts from The Source (various logins from 1978 to 1980), which was really cool reading. I'll scan these. However, neither of them work. Both power on, but they immediately go into COMMAND mode and sit there, which appears to be abnormal behaviour based on what I'm reading in the service manual (thanks, Bitsavers!). The NUM LOCK switch works and the paper advance works, but nothing else appears to elicit a response. One of them advances the page and acts like it's printing the command prompt, but the other one doesn't even do that. The service manual suggests I need to replace both the TMS 9980 and 8080 boards, which would really suck. I'm hopeful that the one that's "more active" has a working 9980 board and I can use the 8080 board from the other one. (I haven't even gotten to the bubble memory yet.) Anyone repaired these units or have an idea of a repair strategy other than replace damn near everything? TELENET 303 8A TERMINAL= @C 301 24 301 24 CONNECTED DIALCOM NETWORK SYSTEM 10 -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. -- da Vinci ---------------------

4 years

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restoring a Silent 700 Model 765

by spectre＠floodgap.com

>> 301 24 CONNECTED >> DIALCOM NETWORK SYSTEM 10 >> > Please do scan these! It is hard as hell getting info on The Source > and also on Dialcom! Yes, I definitely plan to transcribe them. There is potentially some copyrighted material here but I think I can just excerpt that and still include all the rest of the login process, etc. Still, would be nice to get the terminal itself working and see what's in the ASR's bubble memory, assuming that's still operational, so any ideas people have would be appreciated. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- mouse, n: A device for pointing at the xterm in which you want to type. ----

4 years

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General Data? Computer Equipment Auction - GSA

by mark.kahrs＠gmail.com

The LSSM is very interested in this machine for public display. It would complement the museum's collection of PDP-11s and other 16 bit machines.

4 years

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LSSM is chasing this, was Re: General Data? Computer

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

I missed a lot of this because g-mail decided to bounce some e-mails. I would like to make a couple of observations:- 1. Many real accredited museums have a smaller percentage of their artifacts on display than private collectors. In the UK both TNMOC and the Science Museum Group have large quantities of hardware that is not displayed. The science museum usually catalogues it but it is not really helpful if you can't see it. 2. All the private collectors I know are very happy to show and demonstrate what they have. It might not be catalogued so well but generally they want to show it off.... Dave G4UGM (Now feeling guilty because what I have is neither catalogued or on display)

4 years

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IBM 5110 (5100) schematics ?

by bhilpert＠shaw.ca

Does anyone have or know whether the schematics for the IBM 5110 or 5100 are available? And the tightly related question of whether anyone has done ROM (ROS) dumps? There are some service manuals on bitsavers, they are field-service board-level manuals, mostly step-by-step problem resolution guides, no schematics. As a system, it's small enough to be reverse-engineered, in that regard it's tractable. However, it's implemented using IBM's mid-70s PCB and IC technology, increasing an RE effort by a couple orders of magnitude if not approaching impossible, unless one were to develop some robotic probing system and software. There was a 5110 on ebay, non-working, that a friend had some interest in. It was quite a gamble at the price, in the absence of real tech info. ... Apparently it's been delisted, so my question is just curiousity at this point.

4 years

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WTD - Oregon/Taumetric M68000 Pascal and Cross Assembler (VAX/VMS)

by classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk

Hi all, Does anyone happen to have a copy of these squirrelled away? - Oregon Pascal M68000 -- cross compiler for VAX (or any other host platform). Probably called "P68.EXE" or something similar. - Oregon / Taumetric M68000 Cross Assembler for VAX (or any other). Probably called "MASM.EXE" or similar. - Oregon / Taumetric M68000 Linker for VAX (or any other). Probably called "MIL.EXE" or similar. The assembler and linker might be ports of Motorola's M68KMASM and M68KLINK -- so something equivalent which takes the Motorola-format .SA files and spits out .RO files should work instead. I've been tasked with getting some ancient code building again, and as usually happens, the "backup" is incomplete... Thanks, -- Phil. philpem at philpem.me.uk https://www.philpem.me.uk/

4 years

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IBM 5110 (5100)

by organlists1＠sonic.net

Was the computer auction in question a 5100 or a 5110? Presently I see there is a 5110-C for sale https://www.ebay.com/itm/294865912729 There were also a 5110 with 8" external drives and a printer which sold: https://www.ebay.com/itm/304377532685 Don Resor

4 years

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Does anyone/museum test disk packs?

by barythrin＠gmail.com

I was visiting a new thrift store and saw a disk pack they had. I joked that mine are just fun display/conversation pieces. Do the giant drives suffer the same head crash issues that a bad zip disk can do or are these safe if someone actually wanted to see what was on them?

4 years

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Does anyone/museum test disk packs?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 08:25 PM 3/16/2022, John Herron via cctalk wrote: >I was visiting a new thrift store and saw a disk pack they had. I joked >that mine are just fun display/conversation pieces. Wait.... you bought it, right? Was it $2? - John

4 years

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Commodore vic 20 poweroff

by bryce.diedrich＠intel.com

Just got a Commodore Vic-20. What is the safest way to power it off when I am done using it? Bryce Diedrich

4 years

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VCF East 2022

by mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us

Exhibitors wanted! Deadline to apply is April 1. Exhibits are NOT limited to the shows two main themes. "Ever wonder about the roots of today?s technological society? Did you spend Covid nostalgically playing old video games from the past on an emulator? Do you want to get hands-on with computers ranging from the 1960s thru the early 1990s? Come to the Vintage Computer Festival East in Wall, NJ on April 22nd thru April 24th, 2022. On Friday, April 22nd, there are classes in everything from programming the Apple II computer to "learn to solder" sessions for both kids and adults. You can even solder together your own Intel based computer with our partner GlitchWorks. On Saturday and Sunday (April 23rd & 24th), join us for hands-on exhibits of vintage and classic computers along with talks from the people who were at the beginning of vintage computer history. Learn how vintage computers lead to today's world of technology becoming commonplace instead of niche hobby. This year we have two themes for our weekend talks: Women in computing and Computers for the Masses. Talks include a reunion of Commodore employees talking about their days working at Commodore Computers as well as the creators of the Commodore Vic-20 and C64. Talks by Margaret Morabito, the editor of RUN magazine. Learn the history of video game programming starting with the Atari 2600 to modern times with Burger Becky a long-time veteran of the video game industry. Consignment sales will be open all weekend where our members will be selling everything from vintage Apple to Zenith computers and everything in between, as well as parts for computers, peripherals, and other vintage computer equipment. Who knows, you may find the items to complete your nostalgic journey back to the 1980s. Will you find the personal and home computer that you have been looking for? Learn more about the Vintage Computer Festival East at https://vcfed.org/wp/events/vintage-computer-festival-east"

4 years

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Vic-20 Power off.

by richardrpope2＠gmail.com

Diedrich, Just unplug it. I owned one for years. Thanks, Richard Pope

4 years

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Seeking a MC75325L Dual Memory Driver

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

I have here in my hands a DEC H222A (16Kx18), part of a MM11-DP, that took a blow at sometime in the past. In consequence there are a number of small parts damaged (snapped diode, crushed axial electrolytic, chipped mica capacitor, cracked/broken SIP resister net) but those all appear to be relatively easy to replace. What's not so easy to replace is the MC75325L Dual Memory Driver (L = Ceramic) that was de-lidded in the process :-<. I am wondering whether anyone has one of these ICs in their spare parts drawer that I could acquire? I do see a MC75325P (plastic) on eBay at littlediode_components for ~20USD, plus a surprisingly modest shipping charge (Royal Mail International). UTSOURCE claims to have a supplier of the ceramic part "new", with a significantly higher shipping charge. Before I go with the ceramic part (IMO not the sort of packaging that gets . remarked) I thought that I would check here for alternative sources. Thank you, paul

4 years

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Found! Ge 115 computer brochure

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Found! Ge 115 computer brochure where can I find the computer? Sent from the all new AOL app for Android

4 years

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Interface for a HP 712 workstation - A2263-66536

by jesse＠cypress-tech.com

This is a long shot but would anyone have an interface card for a HP 9000 712 HP-UX workstation. The part number is A2263-66536 and its a LAN card.. If anyone has one that they want to sell, let me know. Thanks Jesse Cypress Technology Inc jesse(at)Cypress-Tech.com

4 years

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gcobol

by paulkoning＠comcast.net

Saw a note on the GCC list that I thought some here might find interesting: it announces the existence (not quite done but getting there) of a COBOL language front end for GCC. Interesting. For those who deal in legacy COBOL applications that want a more modern platform, I wonder if this might be a good way to get there. Run old COBOL dusty decks on Linux, yeah... I wonder if I can make build that front end with the pdp11 back-end. :-) paul

4 years

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Front Panels

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi ????? I've just done an inventory and I have the following stock ?????? PDP-8/e Type A? Qty 4 ??????? PDP-8/e Type? B Qty 5 ??????? PDP-8/f?????????????? Qty 4 ???????? PDP-8/i?????????????? Qty 8 ???????? New production may not be for a while. Rod Smallwood

4 years

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cctalk Digest, Vol 90, Issue 7 - Re: DEC H500 Digital Computer Lab

by gerhard.kreuzer＠liftoff.at

Hi, I also have an H500 waiting for restoration. Maybe anyone can give better winfos about the plugs/connectors of the patch cables. I didn't have any, I have to make new. With best regards Gerhard Zitat von cctalk-request at classiccmp.org: > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to > ? ? ? ? cctalk at classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ? ? ? ? http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ? ? ? ? cctalk-request at classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ? ? ? ? cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specificthan "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."

4 years

2
6
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Text art (Was: Found! Ge 115 computer brochure

by cisin＠xenosoft.com

more like this: (Who needs VGA, if you have a non-proportional font?) (Text art, with a proportional font, is psychedelic) ____________________________________ ______________ |------|------| __ __ __ | ___________ | () | | 64X4 | 64X4 | || | | | | | | | | | | ___| |------|------| || | | | | | | |____| |____| || D | | 64X4 | 64X4 | || |__| |__| |__| ________________ ||| I | |------|------| | ________ ______ ______ | ADV476KN50 | ||| P | | 64X4 | 64X4 | |TRIDENT | |______| |______| | 1-54BV 8940 | ||| S | |------|------| || |TVGA | |______| |______| |________________| |||___| | 64X4 | 64X4 | || |8800CS | ________________ ___| |------|------| || |11380029| LOW->| /\ SUPER VGA | _________ | | | 64X4 | 64X4 | -------- BIOS | \/ (1) ||_________| | 1 | |------|------| || ______ J ______ |________________| _________ | 5 | | 64X4 | 64X4 | || |______| 2 |______| ________________ |_________| |___| |------|------| || ________ ______ | /\ SUPER VGA | ___| | 64X4 | 64X4 | |________| |______|| \/ (2) | _________ | | |------|------| () HIGH->|________________| |_________| | 9 | | 64X4 | 64X4 | ________ _________ _____________ _________ | | |______|______|__ |________| |_________| |_____________| |_________| |___| | __ TVGA-1623D _ () | |LLLLLLLLLLLLLL| |LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL| |___| | |

4 years

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DECmate II disk image tooling?

by david4602＠gmail.com

I have some disks that look like they're from a DECmate II computer, standard RX50K drives. The disk images all look like they're a mix of 12-bit (OS/78 or OS/278?) and 8-bit all on the same media. I can't convince PUTR to make sense of the images, so I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that is likely to be able to examine the disk contents? I'm really looking for PUTR-like functionality to list and copy files. Maybe SIMH could be configured to be a DECmate II and be fed the disks? I have a couple of disk images available in case anyone wants to try them out - they're purported to be "DECmate II CP/M 2.2 version 2.0" and "System Disk ver. 2.0 8/24/87": https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PD0TlUPiT7MIPEX6abEn33e7s3kSXp_H?us… - David

4 years

5
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General Data? Computer Equipment Auction - GSA

by skynet＠wans.net

Found an interesting item for bid on GSA auction site if anyone interested. Reminds me of General Data equipment... https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucitsrh/?sl=31QSCI22048010 Sorry, link did not send correctly on first try. Stan Irwin

4 years

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General Data? Equipment Auction - GSA

by skynet＠wans.net

Found an interesting item for bid on GSA auction site if anyone interested. Reminds me of General Data equipment... EQUIPMENT RACKS | | | | EQUIPMENT RACKS One lot consisting of: 2 Equipment Racks with the following built in: recorder, processors, disk drive units,... | | | Stan Irwin

4 years

1
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Looking for computer and individual to read old floppy disks

by tcoxjoseph＠aol.com

Dear Classic Computers Members,I am looking for someone who had an operating floppy disk drive that can read old 5-1/4" floppy disks from the 1980s.I may also need someone to read hard, 3" floppies.?The disks can be mailed and the info can be saved as text and sent via email or to the Cloud.I would need a price estimate, as well. I live in Virginia.Thank you in advance.Terry Joseph

4 years

8
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DEC H500 Digital Computer Lab

by ccth6600＠gmail.com

As there is no real cctalk traffic other than test messages I thought I post something a bit more interesting. Here is a short video of my fully restored DEC H500 Computer Lab with an 8-bit counter implementation including reset: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57xU3Xqnqx4 Enjoy Tom Hunter P.S. Is there some problem with the mailing list? The few "non-test" messages I get are often out of context.

4 years

4
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Found SYSTEM DOCUMENTATION FOR ALUMINUM COMPANY OF AMERICA WARRICK WORKS DATANET -30 REALTIME DATA ACCUMULATOR AND DISTRIBUTOR ... AUG 7 1964

by couryhouse＠aol.com

SYSTEM DOCUMENTATION FOR ALUMINUM COMPANY OF AMERICA WARRICK WORKS DATANET -30 REALTIME DATA ACCUMULATOR AND DISTRIBUTOR ... AUG 7 1964 Sent from the all new AOL app for Android

4 years

1
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Digitronics P135-20 Paper Tape Punch

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

I have the mechanism for a Digitronics P135-20 Paper Tape Punch. It turns out that Surplus Sales currently has one of these for sale; see item "(EQP) P135-20/35". It is accompanied by a three-page snippet of a much longer manual for this punch. See: https://www.surplussales.com/equipment/pdf/eqp-p135-20-35.pdf That's the only documentation that I've been able to find :-{. I'd very much like to find/acquire the remainder of this manual, or other relevant documentation. Can anyone help me? Thank you, paul

4 years

2
2
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testing

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Test test

4 years

5
5
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RT-11 Kermit to/from a raw device?

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

Is there a way to do this? Or perhaps a driver in RT-11 that I could point to an entire drive? If not, maybe I could write one with some community guidance? Would be a splendid way to write real media, or in my case, read the hundreds of 8" floppies I have sitting on the shelf here for archive. thx jake

4 years

2
2
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PDT-11 Virtual Terminal Monitor v1.07

by lee.gleason＠comcast.net

> and tried looping back pin 2 to pin 3 >on each serial + modem port and typing some characters, but nothing shows >up in vterm. ? PDT-11/150 terminal and printer ports ports all require a high on pin 20, DTR, before they can send characters.? I've never used the modem port on my PDT's but I suspect it requires the typical, pins 6, 8, and 20 wired together. Maybe you need to pull some of these pins high to loop around? -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.gleason at comcast.net

4 years

2
1
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Muldivo Digiputer 1968

by silvercreekvalley＠yahoo.com

Spotted on ebay - No involvement in the sale - just tagging in case any one on the list has interest. "Muldivo Digiputer 1968 - Imperial Dialog: IBM Model B" https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203849003806

4 years

2
2
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While on the subject of cabinets...

by chrise＠pobox.com

On Tuesday (03/01/2022 at 04:36PM -0800), Marc Howard via cctech wrote: > I've got a PDP 11/34 I've never opened up. It's mounted in a H9642 > cabinet. I can't get the bloody thing to extend on the chassis track > slides. > > Is there a catch or lock screw on this unit? Mine (and we may be learning, is not be a proper configuration) does not have any release or catch to allow the CPU to slide out. I just grab it and start pulling and it slides out-- although it does not slide easily. That could be due to old, stiffened lubricant on the slides. BUT! make sure you pull out the front foot at the bottom of the rack to keep the whole rack from tipping forward if you do get the CPU to slide out. The CPU is a heavy beast and the rack WILL tip forward once the CPU is out far enough. Chris -- Chris Elmquist

4 years

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While on the subject of cabinets...

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

If it's mounted in a standard BA11-K, no. You should be able to pull it out partially (sufficient to tip up if you have rotating slides) and then there should be locking-buttons on the slides to prevent further extension accidentally. Depressing those buttons will allow you to completely remove the chassis and its attached inner slides; the outer slides will remain in the rack. Be careful with full extraction -- the power supply is heavy and the chassis is unbalanced. It's really a two-person operation, or one best accomplished with some sort of supporting mechanism (even wooden cribbing if you are so inclined). If it's anomalously mounted in a BA11-A (like the 11/44) then there is a finger-tab accessible through the front grill on the upper-right that pulls back a spring-loaded side-tab that engages the rack frame to prevent *any* extension whatsoever. Pull that away from the rack-frame and then pull out the chassis. Of course, it's possible that you simply have rusted slides that are binding, in which case you will simply have to use force. Recommend _pushing_ from the rear if "reasonable yanking" from the front isn't working. Although I've encountered a fair share of rusty slides, all have yielded (slowly) to repeated yanking/pushing, even if only a few centimeters at a time. Penetrating oil applied from the sides will help, but after cleaning and polishing the slides suggest that you use graphite or lithium grease to re-lub when reassembling. Others may have alternative lubrication recommendations. -----Original Message----- From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Marc Howard via cctech Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 7:37 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: While on the subject of cabinets... I've got a PDP 11/34 I've never opened up. It's mounted in a H9642 cabinet. I can't get the bloody thing to extend on the chassis track slides. Is there a catch or lock screw on this unit? Thanks, Marc Howard

4 years, 1 month

1
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Racking a PDP-11/24

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I am wondering if I have racked my 11/24 correctly. As you can see here: https://robs-old-computers.com/2022/02/10/pdp-11-24-progress/ I have put the CPU at the top and the two RL02 drives underneath. The problem is that the CPU enclosure catches on the RL02 underneath. There is a bit of play in the mounting bracket: https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2022/02/cpu-mounting-bracket.jpg. With a bit of manipulation I can get the CPU to slide in. However, I am wondering if I have racked it correctly? I don't think there is room to move the RL02s down and it would presumably leave a bit of a gap below the CPU. There seems to be very little clearance between the CPU and the RL02 at the front but more at the back, but I am sure that the rails are mounted horizontally. Is it just a matter of tightening the big screws that hold the mounting brackets to stop the play? If so I am not sure I have a big enough screwdriver! Regards Rob

4 years, 1 month

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PDT-11 Virtual Terminal Monitor v1.07

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

Hi! Anyone remember how to use this program that announces itself as "PDT-11 Virtual Terminal Monitor v1.07" ? I found it on a floppy of RT-11 v4.0 with my pile of PDT-11 treasures (which amazingly still seem to read fine and work wonderfully; disk file timestamps around 1979 - 1982). I thought maybe it was a term program, since these PDTs were kind of famous for that sort of deployment, and tried looping back pin 2 to pin 3 on each serial + modem port and typing some characters, but nothing shows up in vterm. It does come out of some mode into a command mode, I think, when I send a break to the console. ^C kills it from there and I can get back to RT. I found online a DECUS program of the same name (vterm), submitted by DEC circa 1979, and am wondering if this is the same beastie I've discovered on my 8" floppy: https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/… ; however, when I try to click through that decus website, the actual packages themselves seem to have been lost! Does anyone know where to obtain the actual files that came with this 110417 from DECUS? And if I'm on the right track, here? It would be cool to have this PDT-11 functioning as God intended if this vterm is actually a terminal emulator type of thing... thx jake

4 years, 1 month

1
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Tandon TM 848-02

by bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com

Does anyone have anything on the jumper settings for this drive? I would like to jumper it so it can read DEC RX01/RX02 floppies. I am looking at being able to read disks on a non-DEC systems but I would also like to be able to use it on my Andromeda card in a real PDP-11. bill

4 years, 1 month

4
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RQDX3/RD31/RX50 jumpers

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi ????? Is the correct setting: ?????? 1. DS1 on the RD31 and the RX50's move up to DU1 and DU2. ?????? 2. DS3 on the RD31 and the RX50's are DU0 and DU1 I've tried both and it still? tries to access the RD31 and the RX50 at the same time. Its on a standrd BA23 R

4 years, 1 month

1
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Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

>> (I have yet to check and see if the KY11-LB asserts SACK if the CPU >> halts on its own accord - probably 'yes', but that's a project for tomorrow.) Yes, it does. I toggled in the following program: 5000 5200 776 0 (what, you all can't program a PDP-11 in octal? :-) and hit 'start' and the SACK light on the UA11 flashed out and came back on when the machine finally halted. So then I looked at CPU tech manual for the KD11-E, and the HALT instruction seems to act exactly like the console has requested a processor halt; it just sets the HLT RQST signal (see Section 4.5.5 "Operate Instructions"). So, either (console halt, or a HALT instruction) will cause the identical response in the processor; see Section 4.10.3 "Halt Grant Requests": the CPU sends HLT GRANT to the console, which returns SACK. As long as SACK is asserted, the processor waits with its clock inhibited: "The user can maintain the processor in this inactive state (Halted) indefinitely. When the HALT switch is released, the user's console releases BUS SACK L, and the processor continues operation" This text is obviously for the KY11-LA; the KY11-LB will operate identically: when the console releases SACK, the processor resumes operation. > From: Fritz Mueller >> when I powered the machine on, it turned out that something was >> asserting SACK when the machine was halted > That is quite interesting, and not what I would have expected! Yes, I was quite surprised; I didn't expect that either. Now that I know that the KY11-LB uses it to talk to the KD11, I can work around it, though. I'll have to write all this up to warn others about it. >> The thing that's puzzling me is that the M8264 seems to exactly >> replicate the functionality of the M9302, with an 'unused' bus grant >> being turned into a SACK. So I don't understand the point of the M8264. > I think the only difference would be that since the M8264 is timer > based, it doesn't need the intact end-to-end path required for > turnaround. So your bus won't lock even if you have a broken grant > chain or a poorly behaved or hung device eating grants. You are right about it being timer-based, but I'm not sure the conclusion follows, at least exactly as stated. If there's a broken grant chain, then as you originally pointed out, the M9302 will jam SACK on. The M8264 could not even be there, and nothing would be any different. Same thing if the CPU asserts a grant in response to a now-removed interrupt request: the M9302 will jam SACK on, etc, etc. I'm racking my brain to think up _any_ circumstance in which the M8264 will assert SACK. in which the M9302 wouldn't. Thinking it through, there has to be a grant, but it can't get to the M9302 (because otherwise it would do its thing), but that failure to get there can't be simply a broken grant chain (ditto). So some device has to be malfunctioning: not passing a grant along, but eating it. So either a hard-failed component in the grant-passing circuit, or some design flaw. (It can't be a glitch; it has to be a permanent thing which prevents passing the grant.) I suppose that's possible, but I can't see any othey way. Noel

4 years, 1 month

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Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

First, a minor correction: > the M8264 Sack Timeout module ... there's next to nothing in print > about them There is also some coverage in EK-KD11E-TM-001, at: Section 4.7.2.4 "M8264 NO-SACK Timeout Module" (pg. 4-41, pg. 87 of the PDF), which I found while looking for parity stuff (below). > From: Fritz Mueller > The KD11-E is pretty bare boned... Parity handling was also a quad "add on". ??? The KD11-E/EA doesn't do much with parity (below), so at first I thought that maybe you were thinking of the M7850 Parity Controller (which is actually a memory option, not KD11-E/EA specific; more below), but that's a dual card. The KD11-E/EA does not (like most PDP-11's) calculate parity; PDP-11 memory units do all the work, and signal 'parity error detected' to the CPU over the UNIBUS (using the PB line); the CPU will trap when it sees that (if enabled; the KD11-E and -EA can disable recognition of parity errors, with jumpers). See Section 4.7.2.7, "Parity Errors", in EK-KD11E-TM-001 (at pg. 4-45, pg. 91 of the PDF); the circuit diagram is on page K2-1 of the KD11-E/EA FMPS. The M7850 has to be in the same backplane as the memory, but that can be a different backplane from the one holding the CPU. So it can be 15' away, at the other end of a UNIBUS cable. Anyway, can you say more about the parity add-on? >> So if i) a device requests a grant, and then drops the request at >> _just_ the right time ... and ii) there's a break in that grant line >> ... before it gets to the M9302, which can turn it around as a SACK , >> then ... the KD11-E CPU will hang! > I believe a broken grant chain with an M9302 in place on the far side > results in the grant being pulled up at the M9302, and then continuous > assertion of SACK, hanging the processor straight out the gate. Oh, right you are! (I'm glad _your_ brain is runed on - unlike mine! :-) I happen to have an -11/04 (the -11/34's sibling) on the bench in my work room, with one of Guy's very useful UA11's plugged into it. (BTW, the UA11: http://www.shiresoft.com/products/ua11/Unibus%20Analyzer.html is fantastically useful as a UNIBUS debugging tool. Everyone working on UNIBUS machines should have one.) So I thought I'd go try an experiment. It turned out to be a bit more complicated than I thought, but you're basically right: a break in the grant lines (e.g. missing grant continuity card) causes the downstream card to 'see' 'phantom' incoming grants (open TTL inputs float high), and signal a grant on from there; and if there's an M9302 at the end of the bus, it will see that and jam SACK on. The complication was that when I powered the machine on, it turned out that something was asserting SACK when the machine was halted; if I put it into a 'BR .' loop, that goes away. I looked, and the KD11-D doesn't even _have_ a SACK driver! So I tried un-plugging the KY11-LB, and the 'SACK on halt' went away. (That machine has core, and I set the power-on vector to halt the machine.) Looking at the KY11-LB manual, it does in fact assert SACK (after it has sent the KD11 a 'halt request, and receives a 'halt acknowledge'), to recognize the CPU's acknowledgement of the halt request. (I have yet to check and see if the KY11-LB asserts SACK if the CPU halts on its own accord - probably 'yes', but that's a project for tomorrow.) The thing that's puzzling me is that the M8264 seems to exactly replicate the functionality of the M9302, with an 'unused' bus grant being turned into a SACK. So I don't understand the point of the M8264. Whether the cause of the grant is a rare timing window of a bus request being cancelled, or a broken grant line; with an M9302 in the system, a SACK will result. The only difference between the two is that because of the way grant lines are wired, the M8264 will not respond to a broken grant line 'downstream' of the M8264. The M8264 does add this capability to a system using an M930 terminator - but just switching to an M902 would be simpler. And the M9302 pre-dates the M8264, as we can see from EK-11034-OP-PRE2. So I'm really quite confused as to what the point of the M8264 was. Noel

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Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mattis Lind > What about the M9300 board? Do you have an idea what the purpose is of > that card? Yes, that one's well-documented and understood. It's intended for use on the 'B' UNIBUS of the RH11-AB, in deployment configuratons where that UNIBUS is in use, but there's no CPU on it to respond to NPR bus requests. (See: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/RH11_Peripheral_Controller_Course.p… pg. 11 for an example; the 'B' UNIBUS of the -11/45 is used for a separate path into the 45's dual-port FASTBUS memory.) On such a UNIBUS, the M9300 is used at the start of the bus, and is jumpered to allow on-board circuitry to respond to an NPR with an NPG.It also has a SACK timeout capability, documented in: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/RH11-AB_OptionDescr.pdf on pp. 69-70, but I'm not fully familiar with that. Noel

4 years, 1 month

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Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

>> On Feb 19, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: >> The -11/34 (not the /34A) has something unusual for grant timeouts, >> but I forget the details. I'll look it up. And here it is... > From: Fritz Mueller > I think you are thinking of the M9302, Noel: a far-side terminator card > with integrated SACK turnaround? No; the M8264 Sack Timeout module. What's an M8264, you say? Well, there's next to nothing in print about them, but I think I've managed to assemble enough distant clues to work out their story. Start with EK-11034-OP-PRE2 (I have a hard-copy of it); it gives a clue as to how it all started. In 3.10.2, "End-of-Bus Terminator", it says: "As a result of this [SACK turnaround] circuitry [on the M9302], the SACK timeout feature found on other processors is not required" So if i) a device requests a grant, and then drops the request at _just_ the right time (so a grant gets sent out when there's no device waiting to grab it), and ii) there's a break in that grant line (maybe a missing grant continuity card) before it gets to the M9302, which can turn it around as a SACK , then ... the KD11-E CPU will hang! The M8264 was apparently the first attempt to deal with this. Like I said, there's next to nothing in print about them. EK-11034-UG-001, in Section 1.2, "System Description", does list "M8264 SACK Timeout module (11/34 only)" in the list of components - but says nothing else _at all_ about it! There is one page of circuit diagram of it, in: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1134/MP00082_1134_Vol2_Sep76.pdf on pg. 149. The rest of the prints for it (e.g. the PCB layout) aren't there, but I happen to have one - it's a quad board with only a few components on it. Looking at the circuit diagram, it's mostly just a 9602 retriggerable, resettable one shot. (There's also a synchronous 4-bit up/down counter, but that's just there to count events, and display the count in some LEDs - probably just to make sure it isn't happening too often.) Since I'm not a real hardware type, I'm not absolutely certain just from looking at the circuit diagram exactly what it does, or how, but EK-KD1EA-MM-001 Section 4.7.2.4, "No-SACK Timeout Circuitry", shows a very similar circuit, and says it "asserts BUS SACK ... [if the device] does not assert SACK within 22 usec after a grant line has been enabled." Presumably the M8264 does the same thing. Interestingly, that circuit appears in the KD11-EA prints on pg. K2-10; the KD11-E prints have a blank space on that page where this circuit is in the KD11-EA prints. Since the M9302 appears in EK-11034-OP-PRE2, with SACK turnaround, I deduce that the M8264 was produced _after_ that came out, and post-dates the M9302, to fix the potential CPU hang issue I described - and was later dropped when the -11/34 switched to the KD11-EA, with that circuit built in. I'll do a page on the CHWiki about the M8264, and include an image of one. I figure I might use my M8264 on my -11/04, which also doesn't have SACK timeout (on the BG lines, for sure; it looks like it might have it on the NPG line). The M8264 doesn't tie into the CPU, it just looks at UNIBUS lines, so it can be plugged into any UNIBUS machine (near the start of the bus, since the grant lines it monitors are wired sequentially). Noel

4 years, 1 month

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Information about an unknown IC

by clemarjr＠gmail.com

Hi I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC. Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC? Thanks.

4 years, 1 month

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Seeking paper tape punch

by fedorkow＠mit.edu

hi Steve, ? There's lots of raw material out there.? Al Kossow read hundreds of tapes a couple years ago, and posted the images at http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/MIT/whirlwind/X4222.2008_Whirlwind_ptp/ ? Whirlwind and modern readers disagree on what order the bits come in, but other than that, the files are perfectly usable.? We have some of the programs running in simulation, as you've seen. ? The Whirlwind tapes in the archive are all seven-level tapes punched on 7/8" paper. ? Let me know if there's something I can help with /guy Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:24:18 +1000 From:steven at malikoff.com To: "ben"<bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"<cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Seeking paper tape punch Message-ID: <78ae9afacbca8b3ca7e7a41c677659d0.squirrel at webmail04.register.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Ben said > This requires a REAL MACHINE SHOP ... none this 3d printer stuff. I > would recommend a building a 35mm film punch and reader, as film stock > is still easy to find compared to paper tape. Zuse used them for his > computers in Germany on the 40's. Quality Mechanical stuff is lost high > tech. Consumer-grade CNC stencil cutters are fine at cutting plastic sheet and should be ok with film stock. My ptap2dxf (latest version 1.3) will produce output to cut tapes for 8-level ASCII, 5-level Baudot, 2-level Morse (Wheatstone and Cable Code), 7-level Whirlwind, Teletype Chadless and some customising options too. Still some other formats to do such as Colossus etc. Thanks for the notion of making Zuse tape, will look into it. Steve.

4 years, 1 month

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11/83 operating system load update -2

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi ?? Well I have had a huge response to my request. I am unsure as to if I have defined the problem properly. So a few bullet points. 1. The objective is to copy RX50 disk images (*.dsk format) to genuine DEC RX50 disks. 2. The PC I want to use is a DEC Celeibris FX ie the PC and its W95 software is as supplied by DEC. 3. It has an RX33 5.25 inch floppy drive. 4. The RX33 _*is*_ capable of? reading and writing RX50 disks. 5.? putR was supposed to be able to do this. It does not. 6.? All that is lacking is the right utility. 7. Doing this does not need any disks other than RX50's. 8. Linux in any of its myriad of forms is not the answer. 9. simH is good at what it does but of no use here 10.? Its just a W95 utility program to copy an RX50 disk image to an RX50 disk on an RX33 drive on a DEC PC. 11. So whats it called? Does it work? given the above situation? Rod

4 years, 1 month

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11/83 OS load - problem solved.

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi ???? Well I now have a full set of DEC orignal MicroRSX RX50 distribution disks. An old friend who I worked with at DEC had kept his install go bag and there they where. Not only that they are good and do boot. Its not over, RT-11 would be a better fit so I'm looking at that. Rod

4 years, 1 month

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DEC VT52 CRT anode connection

by fritzm＠fritzm.org

Hi folks, I?ve begun some work on a VT52, and need to get the power supply board out onto my bench for some work. For those who have been in here before: is there a way to detach the HV anode lead at the board side (does the white ?cap? come off the lead connector?) Or is the only option to unclip at the CRT itself? They don?t make it easy to get to the anode cap in this terminal ? one has to pull the whole tube, with the power supply board in tow. After doing this for an inspection, I find the anode cap looking little brittle and covered with some red, oily ?goop?? I?d rather just leave that alone and detach from the board side if it works that way? cheers, ?FritzM.

4 years, 1 month

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Speaking of tubes in computers.... 1st Honeywell 1000 computer used some surprise tubes!

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Speaking of? tubes in computers.... 1st Honeywell 1000 computer used some surprise tubes!? ??Imagine our surprise back then as? we unpacked our? first? group of? contributed Honeywell 1000 logic and saw....? LOCTAL TUBES!?Although SMECC does not? have? a complete Honeywell system of? this model? (CPU and? PS would? weigh in at 25,000 pounds? we have been told)? We DO possess? a wonderful collection? of documentation, parts? and? misc.? material related? to it, perhaps one of the best. Who else has some? We? used? to? think our 2 inch QUAD? videotape was a monster reel of? tape...BUT? WAIT!The First Honeywell Computer used 3 Inch Wide Tape! It was like mounting a Volkswagen Tire Wheel onto your computer tape drive! Channels or tracks on the tape... 31 Channels ?ALWAYS LOOKING? FOR MORE RELATED TO THIS COMPUTER!? See more info on this computer at: http://www.smecc.org/honeywell_datamatic_1000.htm drop me a note at? couryhouse at aol.com?

4 years, 1 month

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cctalk Digest, Vol 89, Issue 21

by athornton＠gmail.com

The 11/83 question sounds like a job for SCSI2SD to me. Install a system with simh. dd the resulting disk image to your sd card. Hook the SCSI2SD up to your 11/83 and boot from the card. Copy the contents of that drive to your real SCSI drive. Done. SCSI2SD cards are not expensive and are a tremendous value for money.

4 years, 1 month

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'dd' for Windoze (Was: cctalk Digest, Vol 89, Issue 21)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rod Smallwood > dd is a linux command. UNIX, actually. (V5, I think: https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V5/usr/source/s1/dd.c There no 'man'page for it in V4. Anyway...) > I only have windows PC's. There are Windoze versions. I've used this one: http://www.chrysocome.net/dd with success (under XP; probably works under others, too). Noel

4 years, 1 month

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