- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 07:35 PM 1/28/98 GMT, you wrote: >A friend is heavily into classic cars; he says a car depreciates >typically until it hits a low at about 13 years, after which its' >value rises. Computers probably do the same pattern although the time >probably varies. The trick is to know when the machine hits bottom and >which will go up from there. (If it climbs slowly, there's no hurry) Not anymore. There's no way all these Pentium systems out today will ever be worth anything, at least not in 13 years, IMHO. Maybe in about 30 years, when most have been destroyed will they be truly worth something as an classic. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

6
16
0 0

Sage IV microcomputer

by d_w_edwards＠hotmail.com

Please, someone help me! I have acquired, free of charge, a Sage Iv microcomputer circa 1983. Specification is : 512K RAM, 12MB hard drive, 1 x 5 1/4 inch floppy drive. I need help with : Group A/B microswitch settings, cable to connect to the serial port of an Amiga A600, serial comms settings, and what I am likely to find on the Sage IV once it's up and running. So far, it appears sane (Processor light blinks meaningfully) but without a terminal connection, I'm completely in the dark. I really would like to get this machine up and running because it was my dream machine circa 1982/1983, and I lusted after one of these for years. Unfortunately I couldn't afford the £7,000 price tag (U.K./British prices - always worse than American prices!) so it remained a dream - until now! Anyone with the relevant technical expertise please e-mail me at: d_w_edwards(a)hotmail.com. HELP!!!! Thank you for your time and consideration. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

6
7
0 0

eBay and online auctions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Actually, though, building a Transputer system is pretty easy. I did so <back in 1989 (so it's not quite a classic). The time from opening the <data book to having the machine boot was about 30 minutes!. That was <using bare chips, not TRAMs as well. Now the transputer is one that I never got to play with but would have liked to. Allison

28 years, 2 months

3
3
0 0

Computone Port Card

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 21:06 28/01/98 -0700, you wrote: >I have a Computone 4(?) port card. long 16 bit ISA bus with 4 RJ11 >ports and 2 RJ45 ports. >Need info on real purpose and uses, jumpers and switches, thanks I have several Computone still in use. What I can say: They are Multiport card used mainly to hook several tty-devices to a xenix/unix box. Usually these cards have an external multiport (DB25) small box connected. In latest version I thnk they used space-saving RJ's Are you shure they are true RJ11? (or they are DEC RJ with side ?) ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 2 months

4
4
0 0

FW: PDP-8 or 11 wanted in Idaho

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Anyone help this fellow out? If so, please respond directly to him. Thanks! -=-=- <snip> -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!news.he.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.139.62.16!news-incoming.cyberhighway.net!news.cyberhighway.net!not-for-mail From: "HeVi@rTi" <heviarti(a)cyberhighway.net> Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: wanted. PDP 8 or 11/45 /50 /65 Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 12:48:20 -0800 Organization: wouldn't you like to know Lines: 4 Message-ID: <34D4DF93.1DB4(a)cyberhighway.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.139.62.220 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; I) Xref: Supernews70 alt.sys.pdp11:2976 looking for pdp-11's in idaho. also after pdp-8's my uncle needs a smallmainframe, and i figure an 8 or 11 will do the trick...mebbe pop a few vt-100s on.. heviarti(a)cyberhighway.net -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Stuff, while we're at it...

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

I'd be interested in the Mac stuff manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Apple //e

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I'd like to find a copy of metal or modem MGR. anyone have copies of either? david In a message dated 98-01-31 15:54:59 EST, you write: << Some things that I would like to find are an Apple //e system, a copy of Networks II BBS, and a copy of Nexus BBS. I'm pretty sure that along my travels I will eventually find the Apple //e but I don't know if I have a chance of finding either piece of software. >>

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Development, round II

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

i ran version 3.0 on a 386dx40 and wasnt bad, although it took almost 10 minutes to restore an archive! i had it running on a dx2-80 with 8 meg, and was pretty snappy. it was interesting to place the swap file on the second hard drive, so you could hear when vm was being used. Ive experimented with version 4.0 but setting up my nic and a pnp soundblaster was difficult. thankfully, there are plenty of os2 advocates out there in comp.sys.os2.* that can help out. os2 trivia: os2 had a START command way before BILLGe thought of it! david In a message dated 98-01-31 10:36:27 EST, you write: << I ran OS/2 v. 2 on a friends system (and helped him with the memory upgrade from 16 to 32 meg). I also ran the Rexx gopher server on version 3 (Warp) on a system with 16 Megs of RAM. I never ran Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 on either machine so I cannot make a direct comparison (Win NT 3.51 was running on the latter machine long enough to allow setting up the OS/2 installation). We also played around with the Voice control on a beta release of Merlin (thanks for reminding me of the code name) but that machine was eventually pressed into service running NT (I never saw it after that). The advice of "you should have more than 4 MB RAM" was taken from my friend (who is still quite the OS/2 zealot) and I thought that I had read it in the paperback version of the OS/2 FAQ as well - but I could easily be mistaken about that latter source. I am quite glad to hear that your performance was so good with only 4 MB - great OS isn't it? >>

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

"i"486

by mallison＠konnections.com

The "i" (intel) prefix is an intel copyright. It has been used, afaik since the beginning, esp the 80x86 series, as this is the iAXP series of microprocessor. Many took to using "x86" notation to avoid the copyright issues of "i86" -Mike Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Development, round II

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>BTW What is Warp? Is it the OS/2 windowing system? If so, why would I >want to use it at all, let alone on a 286? ;-) Yes, it is. Actually, if I remember, it came out in 1994, but it could have been early 1995, but definately PRE WINDOWS '95! You might want to use it for several reasons: If you've got software for it. There's WordPerfect for Warp, Netscape Navigator for Warp, amongst others. Actually, if you ask me, Warp's more of a competitor to NT than '95, as it's definately not consumer-oriented. It features a *nice* plug and play system. Actually, the interface on the older Warp's looks AMAZINGLY like Windows '95, which makes me wonder if it was copied, and who copied who. Theoretically, IBM's designing a completely new version of OS/2 Warp, called 'Bluebird' or something. This is a guess, but it's probably going to be NT as well as '95 compatible, plus rock-solid stability, much better than NT. The reason that we're using Windows as opposed to OS/2 is (in my opinion) because IBM did two things: With Windows 3.0 and 3.1, they waited until AFTER the MS release, and made it Windows compatible. They had relatively high success, but they weren't happy with it. So, with the 32 bit version, they released BEFORE Windows, but ruined all their success. The advantage is that if you want to run Windows 3.x apps with the current version of OS/2, you get 32 bit performance, compatiblity, and many of the features of a "next-generation" operating system. It's a good alternitive for people who want a Windows look and feel, but without the "Microsoft" beofore the name. I could be wrong on most/all of this, so please feel free to correct me. Hope that his helps, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Win 3.0

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>(Does anyone else think that the sounds made by old MFM drives is really >cool??) Yep. I think that some sound like "lasers" or optical devices of some sort. Still make me feel like I'm living in the future. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

7
9
0 0

Development, round II

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<1. The AT had been deliberately set up so that it couldn't make one of <the transitions between modes - IBM were being paranoid and thinking of <crackers having a back door - but this "feature" was removed in the <PS/2. Incorrect. the I286 has real and protected modes and intel for some wacky reason gave you a way to go from real to protected but not back. The only way to get to real mode agan was...reset! <2. Intel had a fault on a large batch of 286s that couldn't do some of <the things you'd expect. IBM bought a job lot on the cheap and stuck <them in XT286s. Nope, xt286 was a way to put a cheap system of slightly higher performance out there using slower parts. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

EPROM programmers

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 02:34 PM 1/30/98 -0600, you wrote: > >I have a very old e-prom programmer that uses this CPU. I'm hanging >on to it as it's the only programmer I have that can handle 2708's! I may be in the market for an e-prom programmer soon. I've never operated one before, so I don't know everything that is involved, but I'm looking for something that I can use to first read the ROMs and then copy them. Something with a PC interface and software would be nice too. What's the price range on these units? I've never even priced them. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

7
10
0 0

C-64c probs

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 11:29 AM 2/1/98 -0600, you wrote: >The best way to deal with that is to create a diversion: place an old >keyboard on the floor and let the little one play with it. >It works for a while;) Been there, done that. :) That's one good thing about having a GRiD laptop laying around: I can give her a working computer to play with, and know I'll get a working computer back. Note: This is Ontopic, since it deals with the preservation of my old computers! :) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

IBM PC/XT-286

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

C-64c probs

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

My 3 year old is already telling me how to use "HER" sofware! and my 15 month old plays a lot with my test equipment (there are more buttons). I got my daughter started on a VIC20 then she moved to a PC (she loved maing it beep). Gotta find a list for Kids and computer learning :) -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Christopher Finney <aaron(a)orr.wfi-inc.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 11:42 AM Subject: Re: C-64c probs >I have two little ones, 2 /12 years and 15 months, and I try to get them as involved with this stuff as possible. My older guy loves to help me clean and restore the systems, as well as play games and simple learning progs (I have to admit that he's not turning out to be normal, he's got quite a knack for the stuff already). I wrote a nice program for the younger guy for the Atari 8, it divides the keyboard into 4 sections and a different colour/sound part executes depending on which quadrant he touches. He's already learned to be gentle with the keybards, so nothing gets hurt and he's learning how to use a computer! My older son learned the same way, and I just gradually made more sections of the keyboard until now he can type any letter or number on the keyboard (we're working on the other characters). > >Why all this rambling? And what does it have to do with classic computers? Well, my dad had his hobbies that were "adult stuff" and I was excluded (collecting old rifles). Older computers are a fun hobby for me, but are also something that lets me invest time with my kids and teaches them skills that will give them an advantage in life. Older computers, especially the ones that are so plentiful and inexpensive right now (C64's, Ataris, etc) are perfect for teaching them this stuff. I admit that I would be a little nervous about leaving my new Dell laptop on the floor for them to play with, but what can they do to an 800XL? And even if they manage to break it somehow, what is $25 when compared to what they're learning? So don't just try to divert them with a junk keyboard, put some time into helping them learn to use the stuff too. Believe me, 15 months is *not* too young, and it will save you a lot of yelling and frustration when they're terrible two! > >Aaron

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

C-64c probs

by aaron＠orr.wfi-inc.com

I have two little ones, 2 /12 years and 15 months, and I try to get them as involved with this stuff as possible. My older guy loves to help me clean and restore the systems, as well as play games and simple learning progs (I have to admit that he's not turning out to be normal, he's got quite a knack for the stuff already). I wrote a nice program for the younger guy for the Atari 8, it divides the keyboard into 4 sections and a different colour/sound part executes depending on which quadrant he touches. He's already learned to be gentle with the keybards, so nothing gets hurt and he's learning how to use a computer! My older son learned the same way, and I just gradually made more sections of the keyboard until now he can type any letter or number on the keyboard (we're working on the other characters). Why all this rambling? And what does it have to do with classic computers? Well, my dad had his hobbies that were "adult stuff" and I was excluded (collecting old rifles). Older computers are a fun hobby for me, but are also something that lets me invest time with my kids and teaches them skills that will give them an advantage in life. Older computers, especially the ones that are so plentiful and inexpensive right now (C64's, Ataris, etc) are perfect for teaching them this stuff. I admit that I would be a little nervous about leaving my new Dell laptop on the floor for them to play with, but what can they do to an 800XL? And even if they manage to break it somehow, what is $25 when compared to what they're learning? So don't just try to divert them with a junk keyboard, put some time into helping them learn to use the stuff too. Believe me, 15 months is *not* too young, and it will save you a lot of yelling and frustration when they're terrible two! Aaron

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

C-64c probs

by lfb107＠psu.edu

At 02:16 AM 2/1/98 +0930, adam(a)merlin.net.au wrote: >>At 10:02 AM 2/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >>>Assuming the drive's device number has not been changed from eight, then the >>>correct command is LOAD "*", 8, 1 >> >>What's the differenct between "$" and "*"? I've seen both used in this >>context. How does one change a device number? I'm not Commodore expert. The >>only other Commodore product I've had is a C-16, and that seems like ages >>ago. > >"$" loads the file directory from the disk, and you use "list" to see >what files are on it. "*" loads the first program on the disk, and I >assume the ,1 is to either load an assembly program, or to automatically >run the file once loaded. The ,8 is the device number - thus try, say, >,9. :) LOAD"*",8,1 will load the last program loaded. If there was none, it will then load the first program on the disk. The ",1" is what is called the relocate flag. When it is notr there (or ",0") it tells the 64(or any commodore) to load the program at wherever the BASIC memory space starts. A ",1" tells it to load the program into whatever area of memory from which it was saved. (Usually used for machine language) This is why you get a screwed up screen if you use LOAD"$",8,1 to get a directory. To change a devce number on the 1541 (1571, 1581 too) use: OPEN 15,"dn",15 PRINT#15,"M-W"CHR$(119)CHR$(0)CHR$(2)CHR$("New Device Number" + 32)CHR$("New Device Number" +64) CLOSE 15 "dn" is the current device number of your drive (probably 8) and "New Device Number" is the number you want to change it to. (Anything from 9-127 or so I think) Les

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

C-64c probs

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

The best way to deal with that is to create a diversion: place an old keyboard on the floor and let the little one play with it. It works for a while;) >I'll try it next time I get the system out to play with it. We've got an 19 >month old running around now, and something like the Commodore with it's >multiple cables and pieces is a prime target for her. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Mac printer on PC (slightly off topic)

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

Hi, Is there a way to hook up an old Mac printer to a PC? Any kind of adapter serial or parallel will do. It's an old PC and an old printer;) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

C-64c probs

by cgregory＠lrbcg.com

Load "*",8,1 loads the first program found on the disk; I'm not sure what load "$" does, if anything. To change the device number in a 1541 is not difficult, but it is a PITA because you must open the drive and cut through one or more connections. It is also semi-permanent in that you need to solder the connection back to reverse the procedure. There is a way to configure device numbers on a two drive system by way of a command, but that method escapes me at the moment. You should get the error messages immediately. I pulled out a Commodore and drive to try to recreate your problem, but could not (always got an error message of one kind or another). The only thing I could suggest is that one of the two serial ports on the drive is flakey. Either should work equally as well, but try the other one just in case. Then maybe there is something wrong with the C64 itself or its serial port. I'm just throwing out guesses now. Cliff Gregory cgregory(a)lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> To: Cgregory <Cgregory> Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 11:38 AM Subject: Re: C-64c probs >>Assuming the drive's device number has not been changed from eight, then the >>correct command is LOAD "*", 8, 1 > >What's the differenct between "$" and "*"? I've seen both used in this >context. How does one change a device number? I'm not Commodore expert. The >only other Commodore product I've had is a C-16, and that seems like ages ago. > >>changed to 9, 10, or 11, then you will get a "device not found" error. Try >>the other numbers in place of 8 until you find the correct one. If the >>cable is bad or not connected properly, you should get a "device not >>present" error. > >I'll give it a try. How long should I wait for a device not present >message? It's just sitting there looking for the floppy. I've got both the >C-64 manual and the 1541 manual, but can't see anything that'll help me. > >>PS: I've got all kinds of 1541's if you really want/need one. > >I'd like to get a second drive if this one is good, or two drives if this >one is bad, but I think the problem is just me sitting in front of it, and >not the drive. > > >-John Higginbotham- >-limbo.netpath.net- >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

C-64c probs

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 02:16 AM 2/1/98 +0930, you wrote: >"$" loads the file directory from the disk, and you use "list" to see >what files are on it. "*" loads the first program on the disk, and I >assume the ,1 is to either load an assembly program, or to automatically >run the file once loaded. The ,8 is the device number - thus try, say, >,9. :) > >At least this is as far as my memory goes. I'll try it next time I get the system out to play with it. We've got an 19 month old running around now, and something like the Commodore with it's multiple cables and pieces is a prime target for her. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Future Services & Events from the Vintage Technology Cooperative

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

Just one thing to say: <big> <bigger> <bigest> <bigger than that> Thank you. </big> </bigger> <bigest> </bigger than that> -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 8:41 PM Subject: Future Services & Events from the Vintage Technology Cooperative > >I just thought I'd give yous guys a sneak peek of some of the things I am >working on... [Major snip] >ALL THIS AND SO MUCH MORE! A VERITABLE NERD EXTRAVAGANZA TO SATISFY YOUR >VINTAGE COMPUTER HUNGER! > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

C-64c probs

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 10:02 AM 2/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >Assuming the drive's device number has not been changed from eight, then the >correct command is LOAD "*", 8, 1 What's the differenct between "$" and "*"? I've seen both used in this context. How does one change a device number? I'm not Commodore expert. The only other Commodore product I've had is a C-16, and that seems like ages ago. >changed to 9, 10, or 11, then you will get a "device not found" error. Try >the other numbers in place of 8 until you find the correct one. If the >cable is bad or not connected properly, you should get a "device not >present" error. I'll give it a try. How long should I wait for a device not present message? It's just sitting there looking for the floppy. I've got both the C-64 manual and the 1541 manual, but can't see anything that'll help me. >PS: I've got all kinds of 1541's if you really want/need one. I'd like to get a second drive if this one is good, or two drives if this one is bad, but I think the problem is just me sitting in front of it, and not the drive. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

C-64c probs

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 09:31 AM 2/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >I have my indos not by hand but I nelieve you must type > >type LOAD "$",8,1 Manual says ,8 but I also tried ,8,1 and nothing happened -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

C-64c probs

by cgregory＠lrbcg.com

John, Assuming the drive's device number has not been changed from eight, then the correct command is LOAD "*", 8, 1 The drive should light up and start spinning. If it is misaligned, you probably will get a "file not found" error. If the device number has been changed to 9, 10, or 11, then you will get a "device not found" error. Try the other numbers in place of 8 until you find the correct one. If the cable is bad or not connected properly, you should get a "device not present" error. I'm not sure how to advise you, if nothing happens and no error messages pop up. Cliff Gregory cgregory(a)lrbcg.com PS: I've got all kinds of 1541's if you really want/need one. -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> To: Cgregory <Cgregory> Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 2:15 AM Subject: C-64c probs > > > >I was playing around with the C-64c I picked up last month... It came with >a 1541 floppy... > >I think I have a problem: > >Turn on floppy >turn on C-64c >C-64c inits the drive (light blinks, then goes out) >insert disk >type LOAD "$",8 >nothing happens, no drive light, no response from the 64. > >What's going on here? Drive misalign? How do I realign? Bad drive? Bad cable? > >Anyone have one or two extra 1541 floppy drives they want to sell? > > >-John Higginbotham- >-limbo.netpath.net- >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Are We Not Men? (& Women?)

by mallison＠konnections.com

The whole point is lists and newsgroups is that the majority are pertinent and one shouldn't have to sort through the impertinent. All of our email addresses are posted, if you want to have long discussions as a group there's no reason you can't do it off line... -Mike ---------- > From: Brett <danjo(a)xnet.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Are We Not Men? (& Women?) > Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 6:05 AM > > > > I personally enjoyed reading the posts. I usually pick and choose > anyway - something Sam could do as well. > > BC >

28 years, 2 months

11
27
0 0

C-64c probs

by higginbo＠netpath.net

I was playing around with the C-64c I picked up last month... It came with a 1541 floppy... I think I have a problem: Turn on floppy turn on C-64c C-64c inits the drive (light blinks, then goes out) insert disk type LOAD "$",8 nothing happens, no drive light, no response from the 64. What's going on here? Drive misalign? How do I realign? Bad drive? Bad cable? Anyone have one or two extra 1541 floppy drives they want to sell? -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Apple ][+ OS

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I seem to recall a .3 limit in an early version of VMS that someone I spo <to who used to work for DEC recalls as well: was it as late as vms 2.0 pe <3.0 even? 4.x (memeory is fuzzy brought the loger file names. The earliest version of VMS I used was 3.4. The reason I was complianing is those long names can be horrid if you have to hand type them in and make an error with command editing not available. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple ][+ OS

by pvhp＠forte.com

classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subj: Re: Apple ][+ OS Allison J Parent wrote: !<Well, a 15 character limit's not bad to me at all. Actually, I've gotte !<used to 8 with MS-DOS, which I still use when I want something DONE. ! !I'm spoiled with VMS that has had EIGHTEEN.EIGHTEEN, yes, 36 character !file and directory names. The problem is; ! !VMS_C_COMPILER_NEW.VERSION_TWENTY_ONE can be a pain to type in. ;) ! !Allison I seem to recall a .3 limit in an early version of VMS that someone I spoke to who used to work for DEC recalls as well: was it as late as vms 2.0 perhaps 3.0 even? At any rate under VMS 7.1 at least the limit has been further increased to 39.39 as this little log demonstrates (apologies to folks if this gets MIMEd beyond recognition): $ create 123456789012345678901234567890123456789.123456789012345678901234567890123456789 Hello from 39.39! ^Z Exit $ type 123456789012345678901234567890123456789.123456789012345678901234567890123456789 Hello from 39.39! $ create 1234567890123456789012345678901234567890.1234567890123456789012345678901234567890 %CREATE-E-OPENOUT, error opening 1234567890123456789012345678901234567890.1234567890123456789012345678901234567890 as output-RMS-F-FNM, error in file name Hmm - I just tried that same thing on a VAX running 5.5-2 and was able to create the 39.39 but not the 40.40 just as on the Alpha running 7.1. I am not at home now so I can't test that on the uVAX running 5.4. As for directories - the following was done on the VAX running 5.5-2: $ create/dir [.123456789012345678901234567890123456789] $ create/dir [.1234567890123456789012345678901234567890] %CREATE-E-DIRNOTCRE, [.1234567890123456789012345678901234567890] directory file not created -RMS-F-DIR, error in directory name Peter Prymmer

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Development, round II

by pvhp＠forte.com

classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subj: Re: Development, round II Tim Hotze wrote: !>>name Warp arrived with 3.0. I don't know what rumour mill came up !>>with the "Borg" name, but it's total bullshit -- OS/2 predates that !>>Trek concept by several years. !>That too is what I thought (I don't follow Trek things at all). !The Borg were introduced in a single episode in 1988 or 1989. OK clearly the rumour I reported was worthless as OS/2 dates from 87 (or do I have that wrong as well?:-) ! Another great thing is 4.0's *standard* voice support. That (should) !make(s) it popular in the disabled market. I knew a grad student who - in his twenties - had arthritis so severe that excessive typing for him was out of the question. The voice navigable desktop was of great benefit to him. Before that he used a collection of standalone apps including a wordprocessor (from IBM) that really did not impede his data input speed one bit. I asked him to "type" some latex as demo and was quite favorably impressed. I've heard some folks point to the current round of voice recognition software as being the final success of one of those long outstanding AI research problems. It is interesting to see IBM take such a "quiet" lead with it. Peter Prymmer

28 years, 2 months

1
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WTB laptop

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

WTB cheapo laptop...anyone have 286 or 8088? Don't want anything collectible, just functional. I'd love a Grid -- do they run regular DOS? manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 2 months

1
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re disk drive noises (was Re: Win 3.0)

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

<Snip> > > sounded more gentile. Anyway, about two thousand on/off cycles later, > > I wonder what a Jewish head crash sounds like? > > Sam Parts are cut off. manney

28 years, 2 months

1
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Apple ][+ OS

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Well, it's not so much SPOILING as it is a privelige. Actually, I still name my documents using a relatively short filename (compared to those supported), like School 1.doc or English Report 1/31/98.doc, etc. not a short paragraph describing the file. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Apple ][+ OS > ><Well, a 15 character limit's not bad to me at all. Actually, I've gotte ><used to 8 with MS-DOS, which I still use when I want something DONE. > >I'm spoiled with VMS that has had EIGHTEEN.EIGHTEEN, yes, 36 character >file and directory names. The problem is; > >VMS_C_COMPILER_NEW.VERSION_TWENTY_ONE can be a pain to type in. ;) > >Allison >

28 years, 2 months

1
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Apple ][+ OS

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well, a 15 character limit's not bad to me at all. Actually, I've gotte <used to 8 with MS-DOS, which I still use when I want something DONE. I'm spoiled with VMS that has had EIGHTEEN.EIGHTEEN, yes, 36 character file and directory names. The problem is; VMS_C_COMPILER_NEW.VERSION_TWENTY_ONE can be a pain to type in. ;) Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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Development, round II

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>>Warp Connect was _not_ OS/2 4.0, it was still 3.x as was Merlin (I >>haven't bought it yet, the local stores no longer bother with IBM at >>all and I don't mail order software). OS/2 2.x was _just_ OS/2, the >OK - I stand corrected. BTW Fry's in the SF bay area has been selling >OS/2 4.0 for quite a while. Yes, but there is OS/2 Warp 4.0 Connect (or Connect 4.0), which has even more internet functions. >>name Warp arrived with 3.0. I don't know what rumour mill came up >>with the "Borg" name, but it's total bullshit -- OS/2 predates that >>Trek concept by several years. >That too is what I thought (I don't follow Trek things at all). The Borg were introduced in a single episode in 1988 or 1989. >!> *for the curious: system requirements on the box for Warp 3.0 were listed as >!> "Intel 386 SX-compatible of higher; 4 MB minimum of RAM" (<- widely regarded >!> as a joke among OS/2 users who knew that 8 MB RAM was a minimally configured >!> system). >!Runs better than Windows 3.1 on a 386/25 with 4 Meg RAM. I assume >!the above quote was pasted from from somewhere, because you've never >!used it (OS/2) yourself. Remember, Windows 95 supposedly can run on a >!4MB system, says my package. >I ran OS/2 v. 2 on a friends system (and helped him with the memory upgrade >from 16 to 32 meg). I also ran the Rexx gopher server on version 3 (Warp) >on a system with 16 Megs of RAM. I never ran Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 >on either machine so I cannot make a direct comparison (Win NT 3.51 was >running on the latter machine long enough to allow setting up the OS/2 >installation). We also played around with the Voice control on a beta >release of Merlin (thanks for reminding me of the code name) but that machine >was eventually pressed into service running NT (I never saw it after that). >The advice of "you should have more than 4 MB RAM" was taken from my friend >(who is still quite the OS/2 zealot) and I thought that I had read it in the >paperback version of the OS/2 FAQ as well - but I could easily be mistaken >about that latter source. I am quite glad to hear that your performance >was so good with only 4 MB - great OS isn't it? Actually, OS/2 is pretty good. The only problem is the price: $200 for a standard package. I think that the 4MB thing comes from a VERY BASIC INSTALL. Now, if I could see the OS/2 Warp Server with Windows NT 4.0 (or 5.0!) support, and the OS/2 Warp with Windows 95 (or 98) support, and have a 10% or better performance increase, that would probably get some heads turned, to say the least. Another great thing is 4.0's *standard* voice support. That (should) make(s) it popular in the disabled market. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

1
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C-64c probs

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>At 10:02 AM 2/1/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>Assuming the drive's device number has not been changed from eight, then the >>correct command is LOAD "*", 8, 1 > >What's the differenct between "$" and "*"? I've seen both used in this >context. How does one change a device number? I'm not Commodore expert. The >only other Commodore product I've had is a C-16, and that seems like ages >ago. "$" loads the file directory from the disk, and you use "list" to see what files are on it. "*" loads the first program on the disk, and I assume the ,1 is to either load an assembly program, or to automatically run the file once loaded. The ,8 is the device number - thus try, say, ,9. :) At least this is as far as my memory goes. Adam.

28 years, 2 months

1
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What files are RT-11 master distribution?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:45:12 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> wrote: >>At a very minimum, you need: >>SWAP.SYS >>RT11xx.SYS (where "xx" is SL, BL, XM, FB, or something else) >>TT.SYS (the console handler - not in RT-11 5.6 and later) >>RK.SYS (the RK05 handler) >>DIR.SAV >>PIP.SAV >>DUP.SAV >>FORMAT.SAV >>plus the handlers for any other devices you'll be using >>The full list of "distribution" files came printed in the RT-11 >>documentation for the version you're using, and varied from version >>to version. Which version are you using? When booting the disk pack, I get the following version info: RT11-SJ V04.00 What do the distribution docs look like? I have boxes of info that I haven't gone through yet. The guy I got the system from kept everything, so maybe he has it. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Development, round II

by pvhp＠forte.com

classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subj: Re: Development, round II Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: >Warp Connect was _not_ OS/2 4.0, it was still 3.x as was Merlin (I >haven't bought it yet, the local stores no longer bother with IBM at >all and I don't mail order software). OS/2 2.x was _just_ OS/2, the OK - I stand corrected. BTW Fry's in the SF bay area has been selling OS/2 4.0 for quite a while. >name Warp arrived with 3.0. I don't know what rumour mill came up >with the "Borg" name, but it's total bullshit -- OS/2 predates that >Trek concept by several years. That too is what I thought (I don't follow Trek things at all). !> *for the curious: system requirements on the box for Warp 3.0 were listed as !> "Intel 386 SX-compatible of higher; 4 MB minimum of RAM" (<- widely regarded !> as a joke among OS/2 users who knew that 8 MB RAM was a minimally configured !> system). ! !Runs better than Windows 3.1 on a 386/25 with 4 Meg RAM. I assume !the above quote was pasted from from somewhere, because you've never !used it (OS/2) yourself. Remember, Windows 95 supposedly can run on a !4MB system, says my package. I ran OS/2 v. 2 on a friends system (and helped him with the memory upgrade >from 16 to 32 meg). I also ran the Rexx gopher server on version 3 (Warp) on a system with 16 Megs of RAM. I never ran Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 on either machine so I cannot make a direct comparison (Win NT 3.51 was running on the latter machine long enough to allow setting up the OS/2 installation). We also played around with the Voice control on a beta release of Merlin (thanks for reminding me of the code name) but that machine was eventually pressed into service running NT (I never saw it after that). The advice of "you should have more than 4 MB RAM" was taken from my friend (who is still quite the OS/2 zealot) and I thought that I had read it in the paperback version of the OS/2 FAQ as well - but I could easily be mistaken about that latter source. I am quite glad to hear that your performance was so good with only 4 MB - great OS isn't it? Peter Prymmer

28 years, 2 months

1
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Development, round II

by pvhp＠forte.com

classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subj: Re: Re[4]: Development, round II Tim Hotze wrote: >I'm actually interested in getting a copy of Warp. Is it true taht there's >still another version coming out (I've heard rumors...) > Thanks, I have seen those rumours posted to this list. But OS/2 Version 4 is great - why wait? Peter Prymmer

28 years, 2 months

1
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Development, round II

by pvhp＠forte.com

28 years, 2 months

1
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Development, round II

by pvhp＠forte.com

classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subj: RE: Re[4]: Development, round II Bob Withers wrote in response to Kip Crosby who wrote in response to someone else: >IIRC they started officially calling it Warp with V2.0, the >first release following the Microsoft/IBM breakup. That sounds about right to me. I had read somewhere that there was a general Star Trek theme to code names for OS/2 and the first was "Borg" - but I may be wrong about that. I have floppy and CD-ROM boxes from IBM on the shelf above me that have the name "OS/2 Warp Version 3" on them*. OS/2 Version 4 was called "Warp Connect" to emphasize the ease of internet connectivity. The next version was to have a different Star Trek name altogether but I do not recall what it was supposed to have been. Peter Prymmer *for the curious: system requirements on the box for Warp 3.0 were listed as "Intel 386 SX-compatible of higher; 4 MB minimum of RAM" (<- widely regarded as a joke among OS/2 users who knew that 8 MB RAM was a minimally configured system).

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Parallel ports

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 09:20 PM 1/30/98 -0600, you wrote: >Question: when did parallel ports become bi-directional (i.e., useable for >zip drives and such)? I've seen bi-directional capability in the BIOS of a GRiD 286 desktop before. Before that, I can't really say. >Or, to put it another way, how likely would I be able to (ignoring software >issues for the moment) hook up my new SyJet drive to say, my m100? What >about my DG-1? That would be really cool, but sort of overkill, don'tcha think? I'd be happy with a 1.44mb or 1.2mb floppy on an M100. >(P.S., off-topic tip: The Parallel port SyJet is really a SCSI-2 SyJet >with a fancy cable; if you've already got SCSI, and can maybe use the >Parallel port feature...) "What about the parallel version of the EZFlyer 230?" He said, still quite untopically. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Apple ][+ OS

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Well, a 15 character limit's not bad to me at all. Actually, I've gotten used to 8 with MS-DOS, which I still use when I want something DONE. Actually, I was wondering what the heck Microsloth was thinking when they made it 8 characters. And, the fact that in the next 5 FULL RELEASES (Counting only the .0's, 2.0 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 and 6.0) nothing was done about it. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 1:05 AM Subject: Re: Apple ][+ OS >> On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: >> >> > look inside your ][+ and see if you have a language card. if so, you have the >> > 64k needed to run prodos. the latest and greatest version of prodos 8 won't >> > run on a ][+ i think, only an enjanced //e. if you dont, you can only run dos >> > 3.3 i myself prefer both. i remember when prodos first came out and everyone >> > had an issue with the restrictive 15 character limit for filenames. that was >> > back before i worked with mess-dos and that 8.3 filename limit... >> >> The silliest thing they did was restrict spaces in filenames. You had to >> use a period instead. Blech. Its funny when you think about it. >> Intuitively and I'm sure without really think about it, Apple developed a >> very human interface with DOS by allowing one to save files with very >> readable names. Ie: "BIORHYTHM PROGRAM" or "PROGRAM TO BALANCE CHECKBOOK" >> (30 character limit). Then with ProDOS, they regressed into the >> function-forces-form syndrome by limiting filenames to 15 characters and >> requiring periods in place of spaces. > >Under Apple DOS 3.3, you can have anything in a filename you want. >Control characters, inverse/flashing, the works. Makes for some >pretty neat CATALOG listings, and is actually semi-workable as >a "security through obscurity" step (though every Junior High kid >knew how to bypass it...) > >DOS 3.3 made it easy and convenient to access filenames with embedded >spaces. Too bad Unix shell command lines are traditionally brain-damaged >such that spaces in filenames must be quoted. > >Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Apple ][+ OS

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

look inside your ][+ and see if you have a language card. if so, you have the 64k needed to run prodos. the latest and greatest version of prodos 8 won't run on a ][+ i think, only an enjanced //e. if you dont, you can only run dos 3.3 i myself prefer both. i remember when prodos first came out and everyone had an issue with the restrictive 15 character limit for filenames. that was back before i worked with mess-dos and that 8.3 filename limit... david In a message dated 98-01-30 05:18:32 EST, you write: << OK... well, if I can't find anything else, I'll take the old copy, as I think that you might want to hang on to the shrinkwrapped copy. I wouldn't know what it was like, as I wasn't around when it was made. But, anyway, I'll take the old copy, you can use the new one, as a "liscense", make a backup copy of the disks, and then everyone's happy. ;-) Thanks for the help, >>

28 years, 2 months

4
3
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Development, round II

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I'm actually interested in getting a copy of Warp. Is it true taht there's still another version coming out (I've heard rumors...) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Peter Prymmer <pvhp(a)forte.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 9:17 AM Subject: Re: Re[4]: Development, round II >classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >Subj: Re: Re[4]: Development, round II > > >Barry Peterson wrote: > >>On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:41:15 -0600, you said: >> >>> >>>IIRC they started officially calling it Warp with V2.0, the first = >>release following the Microsoft/IBM breakup. >> >>I have a copy of 2.0; it is not called Warp. That started with version >>3. > >The story that I read somewhere was that "Warp" was used internally at IBM. >With version 3.0 they were explicit about it and put that name on the box. > >Peter Prymmer > >,

28 years, 2 months

1
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Development, round II

by pvhp＠forte.com

classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subj: Re: Development, round II Max Eskin wrote: >I just picked up a book on Macintosh Think C (MS Press, 50c, I didn't >bother getting Macsbug and others, also 50c each). For one thing, does >anyone have an extra/unvalued license copy of THINK C, version 2.1-5.0? >Also, what was the first programming language (I mean not binary or >assembly)? According to Goldstine in "The Computer: from Pascal to von Neumann" the first working modern stored program was a sorting routine that John von Neumann wrote in roughly 1943 - and had working on the ENIAC/EDVAC by 1946/47, but it was in machine code (binary). An Assembler was available on the Princeton U/Institute for Advanced Study EDSAC by the Fall of 1949. Herman Goldstine and John von Neumann wrote a programming manual for it by 1951. Short-code (which would by today's standards be classified as a type of assembler) was available for UNIVAC machines by October 1952 thanks to Logan, Schmit, and Tonik. Heinz Rutishauser of the ETH in Zurich described the world's first compiler in a preprint issued by ETH in 1952 (based in part on work that Konrad Zuse had published in 1948/49). Grace Hopper (who had started out working with H. Aiken at Harvard) developed A0 then A1 and published results in the ACM Proceedings by 1952. By 1955 she released A2 - which was popular on UNIVAC computers. She went on the become instrumental in the development of COBOL. FLOW-MATIC and MATH-MATIC were also available on Sperry computers in the early(?) fifties. Remington Rand then developed a language called UNICODE by 1957/58 for use on UNIVAC 1103A and 1105 machines. John Backus (et al.) at IBM developed: 1] Speedcoding in 1953 for the 701 2] FORTRAN starting in 1954 (which took 18 person years to develop, and was released as Fortran I in 1956/57) 3] served on the international committee that developed Algol (starting in 1959 but continuing through the 60s). >Another thing: CP/M was run on just about everything, usually with >about 64K ram. How is it that MS-DOS blew up to about 384K? What >did they put in there? A DOS kernel is distinct from a DOS installation. The DOS kernel is tiny even for fairly recent versions. On a Dell boot disk for MS-DOS (I think 6.22 and thus not classic) I see the following file sizes: IO.SYS 40,774 MSDOS.SYS 38,138 COMMAND.COM 54,645 and on a bootable PC-DOS 7.0 (again not classic) partition I have: IBMIO.COM 40,614 IBMDOS.COM 37,066 COMMAND.COM 52,956 and in either case the configuartion files AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS are each less than 1 kB. The big user interface difference between these and CP/M is the full hierarchical file system. Of course they also come with loads of bloatware - but some of that is quite fun. e.g. PC-DOS can be optionally installed with Rexx and I chose that option. I also have a couple of different DPMI's available including the one for DJGPP. Peter Prymmer

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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HP-85 found - non functional :-(

by hansp＠columbia.digiweb.com

I recently received an HP-85 which was lying unused just next door! It is in good cosmetic and mechanical shape but unfortunately it is not operational. On power on, the indicator below the tape drive lights, but the main power LED does not and nothing appears on the screen.. I assume this indicates a PS problem. Can anyone send me a copy of the service (and user) docs for this machine? As always I would pay duplication and shipping costs. -- Hans B. Pufal : <mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : <http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/> _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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486 vs 386 (was Development, round II)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>And you'll have to pardon my ignorance of the Intel parts after the 8085 <>but why wouldn't a 386 work if the 486 works? (Other than the speed <>difference.) It has always been my impression that few OS's/application <>need whatever extra software features that differentiate the 486 from th <386. The 486 was a series in incremental improvents over the 386, caching on chip, more piplining and other changes to execute the same 386 instructions in fewer clocks plus the math processor as part of the same silicon. With the scaling of transistors and other logic changes it was effectively lower power and faster for the same clock as the 386 while functionally identical. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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What files are RT-11 master distribution?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

I'm trying to make a new, blank "master" RT-11 RK05 disk pack from a bunch of "user" disk packs. What files are considered to be part of the "base" operating system. Thanks again! Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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