- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Am2901 sbc, WAS: A classic classiccmp day...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> <> >Any other AM29xx chips on it, like a 2909 or 2910 sequencer? Or is this <> >just a demo board for a 4-bit ALU chip? <> > <> >It sounds like a really interesting find, though. The 29xx series chips <> >were interesting devices that have been used in all sorts of machines. <> <> <> Yep, there is a 2909 on board too.... < <Ah, so there's a sequencer. And presumably, therefore, there's some kind <of control store (ROM or RAM) on the output of that. So it sounds like <it's a complete processor, albeit a small one. How small depends on the microcode. It could easily be PDP8 or Nova emulation with one 2901 though it would be slow. I've seen at one commercal design that use it as a fast version of TMS1000 4bitter. It's an interesting chip. I have a bunch of the raw 2901C and 2911 parts. One day when I have time I'd like to try an extended wordlength PDP-8 like machine using them. Say something obcenely long like 20 or 32bits. After all working with that chip 8bits or 80 is as easy from the microcode perspective. Besides it's the microcontroller that is the complex part. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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old threaded languages, was Re: Symbolics

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>Anyone remember these? Are there copies? < <There was a Byte Press book "Threaded Interpreted Languages" <from back then. I have it on the shelf at the office, if you <want the ISBN number. Thats it. The ISBN number is likely useless by now. The articles were supposed to get you to a working language but I never saw them all. I've been thinking about languages and OSs and building one for myself figuring what I'd seen back then may help. I'm still leaning toward OS/8 RTS-8 as models. Target cpu is of course z80. Though DEC T-11 would make a good forth engine. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Still need IBM/Lexmark 4033-001 Token RIng docs

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Still in need of a copy of the docs for an IBM/Lexmark 4033-001 token ring printer server box. I have 5 units to add to a non-profit group's network son and without them I'll likely be stabbing in the dark. Each unit has it's own unique address on the label but I still need either text, xerox, pdf, or something to go on. Any help is appreciated. Russ Blakeman IT Techie Clarkson, KY

26 years, 4 months

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Cipher F880 docs online! (most of them...)

by af-list＠wfi-inc.com

Hi, After having so many people interested in the Cypher F880 op/maintenance manual, I spent a couple of hours scanning it tonight (er...last night), and put it online: http://www.retrobytes.org/docs/cipher/ I indicated "most of them" in the subject because I haven't found a satisfactory way to scan the engineering diagrams, which include schematics and detailed breakdowns, yet. They are 11" x 17" and are very finely detailed. My Ricoh IS430 will only scan that large at a max 400dpi, which is still too coarse to show the details legibly (esp. the schematics) and I think my solution is going to be to scan them in 2 letter-size pieces at 600dpi. Also, in scanning the illustrated parts breakdown figures, many of which are also 11" x 17", I scanned them as 2 8.5" 11" pages and included them inline in the proper section. I have, however, also provided them seperately in their original 11" x 17" form as well, you can't miss 'em. I'll try to get the engineering figures up tomorrow; in the meantime, hope this stuff helps someone! Cheers, Aaron

26 years, 4 months

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VMS backup question

by peter＠joules0.demon.co.uk

I have a MicroVAX 3100 on which I intend to install NetBSD and a 2000 with a trashed VMS installation. Is there a way I can create a backup of the VMS installation on the 3100 which I can restore to the 2000, bearing in mind that it probably has a much smaller hard disk? -- Regards Pete

26 years, 4 months

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Bogosort (was: old threaded languages, was Re: Symbolics)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> If anyone out there doesn't think sorting 1000 signed integers >in 6.8 millisecs isn't fast, code it up on your PC and >see how fast it is. It depends a lot on the algorithm you use in the sort, of course :-). I believe it's in _Numerical Recipes_ that possibly the worst sort algorithm of all is disucssued: "Bogosort": 1. Take the list of numbers you want to sort. 2. Randomly reorganize them. 3. Check to see if they're sorted. If not, go back to step 2. This is a Order(n*factorial(n)) algorithm. I've tried, but I've been unable to come up with anything worse. For your example of 1000 numbers, it'd take (assuming that each operation takes a microsecond) about 10^2554 years to complete. I think the only reason they discuss Bogosort is to emphasize that just because Bubble Sort is the example used in lots of introductory classes, that doesn't mean that you should ever actually use it for anything :-). (Pre-RT-11 5.7 DIR/SORT notwithstanding, of course!) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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decayed capstan in Archive QIC

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

At 18:55 01-03-2000 -0500, Bear Stricklin wrote: <snip> >The drive is an Archive 5945L-2. What is the significance of this; how >similar is it to other, older Archive QIC units, what interface did they >use (it and a similar Archive QIC unit in one of my Convergent NGEN <snip> The 5945L series is, if I recall, QIC-02 interface. The local used PC place near me has a couple of the old 'L' series with intact rollers. If you'd like, I can see if I can snarf them (probably). They'd be yours for shipping, pretty much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 4 months

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VAX 6000 in Brazil...

by mbg＠world.std.com

In case there is anyone interested in such a machine, I just got mail from someone who told me that he has seen a VAX6000 which is otherwise going to be dismantled and discarded... but it is in Brazil. If anyone wants it, can afford to ship it, or lives closer to where it is... contact the I&T people at 55212776000 (that's all I have). I've asked the person who send me the info to send me anything further info he can find out... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 4 months

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decayed capstan in Archive QIC

by red＠bears.org

Howdy; Last night I discovered with no small amount of chagrin that the rubber capstan in the Symbolics' QIC drive had turned to proverbial goo. Fortunately the Genera distribution tape I used to discover this is only superficially damaged, since it's my only copy. That'll teach me. (: Anyway, I hoped to take the capstan out of a newer Archive QIC and just replace the whole assembly, but they are mechanically dissimilar just enough so this won't work. Enough of the original rubber is gone that I have no indication of what the original diameter of the capstan is. The drive is an Archive 5945L-2. What is the significance of this; how similar is it to other, older Archive QIC units, what interface did they use (it and a similar Archive QIC unit in one of my Convergent NGEN machines both use the same, 50-ish conductor IDC edge-connectors), and how likely is it that this is a common drive? I need to find out what the thickness of rubber in the capstan (and/or its full outside diameter) is so I can begin considering how to repair this. Thoughts, comments, musings? Tony, I think this might be just up your alley. (: ok r.

26 years, 4 months

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[OT] Re: DSL Coming -- I may need help!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<he provider, but they use AT&T for content and Sprint for the backbone. Wh <I first got it, it was like having my own T1 for $40 per month. As they add <more and more people, they began throttling the rates to fit more slots, an <now limit uploads to 128K. I've heard similar in this area. Also to get the bargan rate they want it all and I'm not comforablt with them being the broker for phone, cable and internet and they own little if any of the wire. <You can't put a server on the line, several have tried and they've been kic <off. They also forbid you to tunnel, although I occasionally do. Instead o <tunneling through the $40 cable, they want you to buy @work, which is Of course thats exactly what I'd want (or a IP masqurading router) and also to hang my whole net here on it (vaxen, PCs and whatnot). Allison

26 years, 4 months

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IBM TP730T and Win95

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: I got one of these a few weeks ago, and I'm desperately trying to get the pen working with Windows 95. I want to use it for an Ethernet- tethered data sheet display terminal. I can call-up PDF-based data sheets at my work bench, in stead of trying to locate my paper files. Anyway, I have Windows 95 running; acceptably, too. But no matter what I do, I can't get Windows to recognize the TP digitizer. I've downloaded various files from http://www.penwin.com/ but it's still a no-go. Has anyone done this before? I also understand that there are two sister IBM ThinkPads, the 360C/CS/P/PE and the 750/755C/755CS. What I need is a working machine to compare my installation to. So close, but yet, so far... Thanks. Rich [ Rich Cini [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ <================ reply separator =================>

26 years, 4 months

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Core memory on a chip.

by go＠ao.com

I'm sure some of you have seen this already... http://www.ramtrom.com Ramtron is a producer of "ferroelectric ram" devices. Two weeks ago they announced a 256k bit part. To keep on topic: this is exactly what I need for my single-board Scenix-based PDP-8 emulator! No damn battery backup needed and you don't have to reload RIM every time you boot. -Gary

26 years, 4 months

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[OT] Re: DSL Coming -- I may need help! : My ranting :)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<To add insult to injury, here in Pac*Hell land both PB and Covad consider <DSL to be a "best effort" service; if they can't get it to work they can <just walk away from the deal. Or here 25mi west of Boston where I can nearly see the CO and BellAtlantic says "soon" which translates to, your small fry, we can't bother. In the meantime I have RCN ringing the doorbell every week for cable, broadband and phone... I hold little interest in cable modem as I can see that loading up and getting bogged down. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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old threaded languages, was Re: Symbolics

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

>Now, I vaguely remember a series of articles in Kilobaud, Dr Dobbs or >maybe Byte on constructing your own forth like language in the early 80s. >Anyone remember these? Are there copies? There was an issue of BYTE dedicated to threaded languages; it's been a while since I read it, but IIRC it was pretty much devoted to FORTH. There was also a book which somehow was related to the articles that went through the process of building your own FORTH. Unfortuantely, I don't have a copy of that. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

26 years, 4 months

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Vax 11/785 in N. California

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, I suspect you've seen this, but if not, here it is. I can't get the machine from San Bruno, but for anybody that can, looks pretty neat. - Mark ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Tuesday, February 29, 2000 Thanks for your inquiry about the VAX 11/785 we have available. We are located in San Bruno, California, about 15 miles south of San Francisco. Here are the specs: DEC VAX 11/785 2MB memory CPU (4) 622MB fixed disk drives/qbus ([3] SI RA90's, [1] DEC RA82 system disk) UDA50 controller Exabyte 8200 8mb cartridge tape drive CIPHER streaming tape drive BASIC license VMS 5.3 license Topaz line conditioner (220 volt line) We also have quite a few Dec manuals and books related to VMS 5.3 and you're welcome to them as well if you are interested. Last time I checked, everything worked, but if you take it, it is as-is condition. We are retiring this big boy and want to move it out of our server room. We will take the highest bidder under the following conditions: 1) Bidder must arrange and pay for all shipping and freight costs. 2) All equipment must be off our premises by March 17, 2000. 3) Payment must be cash or certified check. We're not looking for a lot of money, just moving this guy off our premises soon as possible! Let me know if you're interested ASAP at the email address below. Joyce Wright MIS Manager Joyce_Wright(a)sclay.com vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

26 years, 4 months

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old threaded languages, was Re: Symbolics

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>This is almost 20 year old memory cells trying to activate here, but I >thought Forth was generally implemented by "compilation" into a non-standard >pCode which was then run interpretively by a stack oriented run time engine. That's one way of doing it, but the most traditional (and still most popular, at least from what I see) way of doing it is to compile straight to threaded machine code. Note that even though threaded code is usually most commonly associated with Forth and other "non-traditional" languages, the technique is applicable to old-line languages as well. For example, Fortran IV compilers on the PDP-11 could optionally compile to threaded machine code, usually producing smaller object code as a result. >Thus, I would have said it was a stack oriented language. But I guess it >depends on if you're looking at the language itself or how it is normally >executed? To me, at least, threaded means "you call a subroutine for everything". For instance, if you want to add two numbers, you push them onto a (or the) stack and call the add routine. It's the extreme opositte of "inline" code, to the point where you can think that you're working on a "virtual" machine that doesn't have the limitations of your "real" machine (probably why you've confused Forth with p-Code type intermediate representations - after all, conceptually they aren't that different!) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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HP 2100 documentation request

by west＠tseinc.com

Greetings again! I'm in need of some printed documentation with regards to the HP2100 or HP21MX diagnostics. While each of the diagnostics are available separately, a large chunk of diagnostics are put on a single set of 3 paper tapes. I do have the tapes, but not the manual that goes with it. The manual is 24396-14001. That's the one I need as this "manual" actually is a manual on each diagnostic included in the three tapes above. Can any of the 2100 or 21MX folks check and see if they have this manual laying around? In the event no one has 24396-14001, I would also be able to just get along with the manuals on a few of the diagnostics. Those critical ones would be: 02100-90219 Core memory (2100/16/15/14) 24395-90001 Semiconductor memory (21MX) 02100-90221 Memory Parity Check 02100-90216 Power fail auto restart 24391-90001 General purpose register 24322-90002 Direct Memory Access (2100/21MX) Thanks for checking! Jay West

26 years, 4 months

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List archives available?

by kheydon＠Solidworks.com

It is still work in progress. I have a new location for it and I am in the process rebuilding it on this new server. It won't be much longer now. -- Kevan 'Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.' - Henry Spencer > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Christopher Finney [mailto:af-list@wfi-inc.com] > Sent: 01 March 2000 07:07 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: List archives available? > > > > In searching for various things, I keep running into Kevan > Heydon's now > defunct archive. Has someone else made the archive available online? > > > >

26 years, 4 months

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Symbolics

by red＠bears.org

Howdy; I've long been intrigued by Symbolics LISP machines and I finally had the opportunity to get one to poke at. (English grammar now requires me to point out that I took advantage of that opportunity. (: ) I've been thumbing through some of the docs to get a better idea of how things work, which effort has lead me to two questions: 1) Where am I likely to find a mouse for this beast? I haven't one and it appears as though the environment expects to use one. 2) Can the FEP software be loaded onto a virgin disk by someone other than Symbolics? The disk in my system may have problems, and as near as I can tell the machines arrived new with at least a bare modicum of software on the disk. Inquiring minds want to know. ok r.

26 years, 4 months

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List archives available?

by af-list＠wfi-inc.com

In searching for various things, I keep running into Kevan Heydon's now defunct archive. Has someone else made the archive available online?

26 years, 4 months

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mpi (CDC) drive

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I have a MPI (CDC) 5.25 full height 2sided drive and some questions. Part number is 77711800 is this 35, 40 or "other" cylinders? is it 48tpi, 96 or maybe 100 tpi? It gets cranky from tracks 9-14 inward (even a Format) and it makes me wonder what it is or is it just flakey? Appearances suggest flakey but I'm making sure it's not an oddball MPI 100tpi. FYI: it's a NS* Advantage and it runs fine off a generic HH5.25/48tpi floppy. Anyone have a NS* CP/M OS manual for it. It has CP/M and it's apparently a NS* version for the Advantage and slightly strange compared to others I've seen? Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Don Crabb, dead at 44

by jfoust＠threedee.com

>Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:00:40 -0500 >To: "Computer Book Publishing" <cbp(a)ls.datareturn.com> >From: Tara Calishain <calumet(a)Mindspring.com> >X-URL: <http://www.studiob.com> > > >Studio B sadly passes along news of the death of Studio B Client Don Crabb. Don Crabb >was well-known and respected in the computer press. He wrote numerous books as well as >a column in the Chicago Sun-Times, which was syndicated by the Chicago Sun-Times >Features Syndicate into over 250 papers. In addition, Don taught at the University of Chicago, >and covered Internet topics on both TV and radio. > >He will be missed. Links : http://www.wgnam.com/shows/wgncom/index.html http://www.suntimes.com/output/crabb/xcrabb.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/obituaries/article/0,2669,SAV-0002280105… http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/crab28.html http://macweek.zdnet.com/2000/02/27/0227crabb.html

26 years, 4 months

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old threaded languages, was Re: Symbolics

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Forth and PostScript are quite similar but I wouldn't <say that LISP was a stack based language. It uses stacks <but most languages use stacks. In Forth, you have direct <control of two stacks as necessary for the language. First to me stack languages are the post-fixed non register variable oriented ones that are very unlike Pascal, C or Basic. < Forth has the advantage that action is read <left to right or "Do-it As You See It". LISP <has the ability to concatenate several of similar <operations like (+ ). I know Forth by way of postscript as they are very similar if you pull the graphic operators out of postscript. Lisp, I doubt I've seen it. <LISP has the advantage over <Forth in that all parameters are specific in the This is lost one me as lisp is largely unknown. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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INTERSIL ICL7601CPD info needed

by whdawson＠mlynk.com

Hello all, I just obtained a box of goodies, and these Intersil ICL7601CPD 14 pin ceramic dips were in the lot. I can't seem to locate any information on them. Can anyone give me a clue? BTW, also in the box were a bunch of common NOS (mid 1970s era) TTL, 2 Zilog Z-80s, and a National Semi DT1050 Digitalker Standard Vocabulary Kit still in the original NS box in an antistat bag, along with the DT1050 docs Thanks, Bill whdawson(a)mlynk.com

26 years, 4 months

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ANNOUNCEMENT: Electronic/Radio/Computer Swap

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 2/27/2000 8:16:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com writes: > The annual Mike and Key Amateur Radio Club swap meet is coming up again at > the Western Washington (Puyallup) Fairgrounds on Saturday, March 11, from > 09:00-15:00 Pacific time. Parking is free, admission is $6.00 with kids > under 16 free when accompanied by an adult. > One great swapmeet. Very large. Get there early. Or better yet get a table. Paxton

26 years, 4 months

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Re. Document scanning questions (beating a dead horse?)

by rcini＠msn.com

Aaron: I happen to like the combination of Acrobat Exchange 3.01 and my HP Scan Jet with document feeder. It's not blazingly fast, but it works. I have it c onnected to my AHA2940UW controller. Rich [ Rich Cini [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ <================ reply separator =================>

26 years, 4 months

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Symbolics

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On February 28, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > Do they still have performance advantages over less specialized systems? > What kind of hardware modifications would optimize execution of Lisp? Hmm...what processor instructions might one create to deal with a language with more parens than actual code? ;) -Dave McGuire

26 years, 4 months

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Symbolics

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On February 28, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > Hmm...what processor instructions might one create to deal with a > > language with more parens than actual code? ;) > > I doubt that is an issue... I've never written a lisp interpreter (wish > I'd had one of those CS classes where they do that) but I'd guess the > ASCII source code gets tokenized into some kind of tree structure which > is probably interpreted by doing a tree traversal, so the parens are all > gone by that point (they just tell it how to build the tree). But I can't > think of any hardware optimizations that help with trees, other than the > concept of a "stack", which is hardly a new one. Evidently there are some > though. 'Twas a joke, man... -Dave McGuire

26 years, 4 months

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Core memory diagnostics advice request

by west＠tseinc.com

Greetings; I've finally gotten (again) my HP2100's to the point where I can run real diagnostics. The memory architecture doesn't appear all that different from a PDP-8E at the board level anyways (there's a memory controller board, a load board, an ID board, an XY driver board, and the core array). My question is this: I heard from a reseller that one should run the memory diagnostics in loop mode for 48 to 72 hours before assuming the memory subsystem is a good one. Bear in mind that when the diagnostic is run without loop mode, it only takes about 8 minutes to complete. This would mean 360 passes being made in 48 hours. From others experience, is 48 hours really necessary? I mean, isn't a good 4 hours enough to test for heat problems, etc? Unlike the reseller, I don't need to be 100% positive a board is perfect before sending it to a customer, I just want to be reasonably sure I can remove the memory system from the list of possible trouble spots as I go on to test other things. I was hoping that there would be nothing about the HP core subsystem that would require that long of burn in, and thus the experience others have had with other systems might be valid experience. So how long do YOU loop memory diags to test a core memory system to be reasonably sane? Thanks in advance! Jay West

26 years, 4 months

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DSL Coming -- I may need help!

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Yes, I consider this on-topic because two of my intranet's servers will be MicroVAX III's. ;-) After much fencing with my local telco over loop lengths, and a snail-mail letter asking them why their competition (AT&T and Covad) were willing to do what they were not (at the time), I have a due date for my DSL connection! It'll be (minimum) 256K up/downstream guaranteed, and those rates could fluctuate a bit depending on the usual variables. This means that, shortly thereafter, I'll be taking full control of my own domain, including all servers, and (finally!) starting to set up what I hope will be a very useful FTP and web site for anyone who futzes with "classic" computing or electronic equipment (ham radio stuff included). This won't happen overnight! It's going to take some time to build up the thing the way I want it to be. With that in mind, I have a request: Those of you who are fluent with setting up servers (Unix/NetBSD-based) on a small intranet, and tying said intranet through a Livingston IRX/Firewall router to the outside world, AND that would be willing to help me keep from making too many mistakes in setting things up, please raise your hand and let me know if I can contact you periodically for help and advice. FWIW, I plan to have: Two DNS, two mail (for redundancy/fault tolerance), single news/FTP box combined, and a single web server. My current setup is on one of the InterNIC-reserved Class C net spaces: 192.168.42.0 - 192.168.42.254. The DSL "modem" (a misnomer if I ever saw one) will be a Cisco 675. Its Ethernet port will tie to one side of the Livingston router. Said router will provide firewalling and packet-filtering capabilities that the Cisco lacks. The Livingston will also provide NAT services to translate the five static IPs I get from USWest onto the private network side. I plan to use my own pair of DNS servers as primary and secondary hosts for my domain, with USWest acting as tertiary. The DNS boxes will be old Sun IPC's. They've already been configured. Thanks much! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 4 months

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A tidbit of history on the HP 2100 to 21MX product line

by west＠tseinc.com

I just talked to a guy that worked (in an executive type position) years ago at a company called MeasureX. According to him, MeasureX bought a lot of HP2100's for their process control stuff. They got tired of the problems associated with the cpu card set consisting of 8 cards (9 with DMA - er - DCPC in HP lingo) and the problems with the wire-wrapped backplanes. They redesigned the 2100 cpu to fit on a single card - one PCB - no wirewrapping, all etched traces. They sold this redesigned cpu (actually just a relayout of the circuits) back to HP, and HP dubbed it the 21MX (where the MX is for MeasureX). This was also the origin of the "build your own modular HP", called the K series where you pick and choose cpu boards, slot assemblies, etc. at time of order. He also mentioned that HP used to charge (at the time) $1400 to "clean the backplane". MeasureX found out that the CE's were just taking out all the cards and taking the unit to a car wash and spraying them with pressured water and then sun-drying them in the back of a closed up station wagon in the summer. So---- MeasureX just started doing it themselves and save a huge sum of money :) I found these tidbits interesting! Regards, Jay West

26 years, 4 months

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Document scanning questions (beating a dead horse?)

by af-list＠wfi-inc.com

I know we've discussed this ad nauseum here, but I had a specific question for those who have a little more experience with scanning documents. What I'm interested in doing is creating searchable, text-imbedded pdf files as well as tiff files. For those who've done this, could you give me a little rundown on the process you used? I've got Acrobat 3.0, which works fine to produce image-only pdf files that are, incidentally, slightly bigger than that source tiff files. So far I've been scanning bi-tonal at 300dpi, which seemed to me to provide the best quality/size ratio for the image files. Any help at all with this would be much appreciated... Aaron

26 years, 4 months

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Docs for TC31?

by af-list＠wfi-inc.com

Hi all, Kind of a blah trip for me to TRW this month; last time I had almost no money and there was a bunch of stuff I wanted, this time I went loaded and only bought two extender boards for $1 each. Hmph. However, I did get to meet up with Marvin and Eliot Moore, from whom I acquired a couple of nifty qbus boards...one of which is an Emulex TC31. Does anyone have any documentation for this board, or have a minute to run over the dip switches for me? As always, help is much appreciated... Cheers, Aaron

26 years, 4 months

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INTERSIL ICL7601CPD info needed

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

"Bill Dawson" <whdawson(a)mlynk.com> wrote: > I just obtained a box of goodies, and these Intersil ICL7601CPD 14 pin > ceramic dips were in the lot. I can't seem to locate any information on > them. Can anyone give me a clue? It is an Op-Amp, officially listed as Commutating Auto-Zero (CAZ) Operational Amplifier. It is listed in their 1979 databook. 1 C1 Capacitor across pins 1/2 2 C1 3 +IN 4 AZ Auto-Zero 5 -IN 6 C2 Capacitor across pins 6/7 7 C2 8 V- 9 Bias 10 Output 11 V+ 12 OSC 13 n/c 14 DR V+/V- supply up to +/- 18 volts HTH Mike

26 years, 4 months

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UPDATE: Selling Collection

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Here it is, 24 hours down the log. I have recieved quite a few thoughtful e-mails from various Folk on this List: Thank you all. I have given even *more* thought to my situation here, in light of various developments, and will try an experiment, vizt., I will dump some of the Junk... and believe me some of it's no more than scrap.... list to follow. ;} I will place some items in a long-term storage facility that I have currently warehousing one of my oldest 'dormant' hobbies... my lovely ten-rank pipe organ, which come to think of it, would probably fit where the computers are now.... no, forget it. I will concentrate on a few systems, and NOT collect any more stuff for the nonce. The offer to sell my Vintage Computer Collection is hereby withdrawn, and again, my great "thank yous" to all who responded. It was a valuable exercise for me, if nothing else. Guess I'm a hard core mainline computer junkie. The MINC is *still* going to CCHM. sigh. Cheers John

26 years, 4 months

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OT: Mail servers changes (INFO)

by wrm＠ccii.co.za

Hi all >Lots of sites are starting to refuse mail from open relays. Your ISP is >going to have to come up with a better solution. I'm --><-- this close to blocking mail from all of .co.jp Open relays, *nobody* seems to have an abuse@ address, and we don't have customers over there anyway. :-) But I'll probably use the open relay database... W

26 years, 4 months

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[OT] Re: DSL Coming -- I may need help! : My ranting :)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Jay wrote >Bruce wrote... >> connection! It'll be (minimum) 256K up/downstream guaranteed, and those >> rates could fluctuate a bit depending on the usual variables. >Um... you might want to check the fine print on the DSL service agreement. I agree fully here! There's vast differences between DSL service from different suppliers. The el-cheapo suppliers might route all of your traffic to the other side of the continent and back before it goes anywhere. (Flashcom does this, for example.) The really good providers have real service level agreements, guaranteed time commitments, and other frills. (My DSL carrier, UUNet, will call me within a few minutes if for any reason they are unable to ping my DSL router. So whenever the power is out, or I'm just moving some wires here in the shop, I know who's going to be the first to call me.) (Another top-notch DSL provider is Savvis.) Also thoroughly check out your options in terms of multiple static IP's, etc., if this is important to you. These aren't important issues to folks who are using a PC-clone to surf the web over a DSL line, but if you want to hook older machines to your LAN to get to the outside world through DSL you do need to pay attention here. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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OT: Mail servers changes (INFO)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 28, 19:49, Jay West wrote: > Pete wrote.... > > My ISP runs two SMTP mail servers, one open, the other not; > Open relays have NOTHING to do with the above situation - talk about > throwing the baby out with the bathwater - the above scenario is akin to > saying "gee, I want to allow http through my firewall, so lets just open the > firewall up for all ports and all services to and from anywhere". Well, maybe, which is why the European ISPs (and mine in particular) are looking for another method. As more and more sites use MAPS or other services, the need for a better solution becomes greater. > There are two other much more "standard" methods of allowing the above. > First, the user could still check his email at his original/local provider > via pop or imap, they do that anyway -- *receiving* mail isn't part of the problem. > and he could send mail from the smtp server at his > nonlocal/traveling provider. But it would have the "wrong" address, and lots of people can't seem to cope with that. > Second, any time an ISP sets up an agreement > with another ISP to let their users roam, they could just add the roaming > ISP's domain name to their sendmail.cw file to allow relaying from that > domain only. Agreed, but we're talking about hundreds of ISPs, not just a few. And for reasons I've never really understood, quite a number of European ISPs, including one of the biggest UK providers, don't provide DNS PTR records for their dialups (so authentication is more difficult). I'm not personally advocating the use of open relays, BTW. The servers I help manage are not open, because we were hit a long time ago. I'm merely pointing out an instance where a bunch of ISPs have seen them as an interim solution -- and issue warnings to roaming users that some of their mail may bounce because recipient servers may block them. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 4 months

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OT: Mail servers changes (INFO)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 29, 0:53, Eric Smith wrote: > Pete writes: > > My ISP runs two SMTP mail servers, one open, the other not; > This can be solved by having your POP or IMAP daemon open up temporary > access to your SMTP server from the roaming IP address after the POP or > IMAP connection is authenticated. This is what I do for some of my users. > If you use qmail there's a readymade program available, but it should be > easy to set it up for Sendmail. That's one of the methods being trialled by my ISP (they use Exim for (E)SMTP). They'r also loking at some sort of password-based authentication but I don't know how that works. > Another approach is for the "roaming" relay to only accept email with both > envelope sender and from headers of legitimate customers. This isn't as > secure, but is still much better than a wide-open relay. If a spammer > discovers the relay by scanning IP addresses for SMTP ports, they still > won't be able to use it unless they also can determine who the legitimate > users of that SMTP server are. True, but that requires spoofing the envelope sender address, which isn't so easy to do on some systems. It also requires even more setup for the ISP than Jay's suggestion of adding domains to sendmail.cw. I know of one common SMTP package (Mercury, for Novell) that allows a simpler system. It's much less secure, because it doesn't really check the addresses; it merely relies on the From address matching the server's own domain. Needless to say, that's easy for anyone -- including a spammer -- to spoof. > > However, until there's a sensible system to deal with roaming users' need to > > send mail as well as receive it, there will be open relays. > > Lots of sites are starting to refuse mail from open relays. Your ISP is > going to have to come up with a better solution. Indeed, and they are looking. IPv6 should eventually remove the problem, of course, but that's some way off. Anyone know the number of the RFC for roaming IP, which Shawn mentioned? I'd like to take a look at it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 4 months

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INTERSIL ICL7601CPD info needed

by edick＠idcomm.com

Harris recently spun the Intersil division off into its own entity. Believe it or not, you may find data at www.intersil.com. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bill Dawson <whdawson(a)mlynk.com> To: Classiccmp@Classiccmp. Org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 9:00 PM Subject: INTERSIL ICL7601CPD info needed >Hello all, > >I just obtained a box of goodies, and these Intersil ICL7601CPD 14 pin >ceramic dips were in the lot. I can't seem to locate any information on >them. Can anyone give me a clue? > >BTW, also in the box were a bunch of common NOS (mid 1970s era) TTL, 2 Zilog >Z-80s, and a National Semi DT1050 Digitalker Standard Vocabulary Kit still >in the original NS box in an antistat bag, along with the DT1050 docs > >Thanks, > >Bill > >whdawson(a)mlynk.com > >

26 years, 4 months

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[OT] Re: DSL Coming -- I may need help! : My ranting :)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<compete for bandwidth availability. As a result, DSL speed guarantees have <absolutely NOTHING to do with the internet speed you get. I won't go into <examples, but I'm sure many folks here will immediately see the <ramifications of this. Think of a file download where each packet comes at <256k but there's 300ms pauses between each packet! I already hit sites like that with my 33.6 modem. My take is the path is as good as the narrowest point and likely the DSL connection is not that choke point. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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OT: Mail servers changes (INFO)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 24, 21:15, Eric Smith wrote: > Hans wrote: > > What's proper or not is a matter of opinion, and in my mind > > open relays are a basic part of the mail system. > > Can you cite any legitimate use for a completely open relay? I can't > think of any. Lacking such examples, I agree with Scott G. Taylor's > statement: > > The simple fact-of-the-matter is, open relays are wrong. My ISP runs two SMTP mail servers, one open, the other not; for a very good reason. A large number of customers travel across Europe, and it is not practical for them to always dial the ISP at international rates. Hence, there are a number of agreements between several ISPs in several European countries, which allow customers registered with one ISP to use the points-of-presence of another. However, the roaming user typically wants to keep his normal email address (ie, have mail appear to originate from his normal address). To do so, he must either use his "home" server despite his temporary IP address/hostname not matching that server's domain (which would look like an attempted forgery to a spam-blocking server) or must use the "local" server and forge the sender address (which would also fail on any normal spam-blocking server). This practice is quite widespread in Europe. Jay's use of MAPS doesn't bother me, because I can (almost) always use the blocking server, and I expect that for most roaming users the inconvenience is minimal. However, until there's a sensible system to deal with roaming users' need to send mail as well as receive it, there will be open relays. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 4 months

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Is ringing voltage dangerous?

by edick＠idcomm.com

The ringing voltage is over 250 volts peak-to-peak but at a high enough voltage to make you jerk your hand away if you touch it. The voltage range that's most dangerous is from 25volts to about 60 volts, as it won't make you jerk your hand (or other body part) away, yet it is capable of disrupting normal operation of the cardio-vascular system. I've never seen a precise write-up of what it takes to kill you, but I'd avoid contact with voltages such as this just to avoid the pain. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 8:25 AM Subject: Re: Is ringing voltage dangerous? >At 05:56 28-02-2000 -0800, you wrote: > >>You know, I've been told it's painful, but is it dangerous? > > <snarph> > > Any voltage along those lines can be dangerous if it passes through the >chest. My understanding is that it takes less than 20mA of current flow to >kill a person. > > Be safe rather than sorry. > > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our >own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 4 months

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Is ringing voltage dangerous?

by edick＠idcomm.com

Careful, Joe . . . the ring voltage spec I remember said it was about 128 volts AC centered about the battery voltage, which is conventionally -48 volts. That's where the 80-volts at 20 hertz comes from, since that's what you see by way of a rectifier diode. That's not a true sinusoid, though, it's the humps from a sinusoid rectified to ground when the median of the sinusoid is at -48Vdc. I don't really know that this can kill or even harm you in some other major way, but it's unpleasant enough that it makes sense to avoid it. That urge to pull my hand out of the box when I'm bitten by a higher voltage than I like is what's made me unwilling to work on TV sets with their puched chassis, etc. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 9:45 AM Subject: Re: Is ringing voltage dangerous? >At 05:56 AM 2/28/00 -0800, Danial wrote: >>You know, I've been told it's painful, but is it dangerous? >>I just told another group about the supply I have (It outputs 110AC, 30hz, >>.06 amp), and realized it's 110. Isn't that dangerous? If I really did zap >>my kid brother with it, would it just hurt or could it really HURT him? >>------- >> > > No, it'll just hurt him. It'll sure get his attention though! I've been >shocked by them dozens of times. FWIW the normal (US) telephone ringing >voltage is only 48 volts or so. The old telephones and military field >phones with the hand cranks with put out over 100 volts. Those hurt! > > Joe >

26 years, 4 months

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Is ringing voltage dangerous?

by edick＠idcomm.com

These comments are clearly made by someone who has experience with this matter! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 4:40 PM Subject: Re: Is ringing voltage dangerous? >> >> >> >RULE 1, unless the voltage is very low it _can_ be dangerous. Low is hard >> > number be exact about but, over 12-30V is the watch out zone. >> >RULE 2, All efforts are to be made to avoid crossing the heart or chest >> > as a possible path for safety. One hand in pocket rule is derived >> > from this. >> >RULE 3, if you not sure, make sure. get a meter and find out if it's live >> > and how hot hot is. >> >> >> I just want to add a rule - Don't always trust what the meter says. I took > >I believe that when working on live power lines and other circuits >carrying dangerous voltages, you test the meter on a known HV source, >then you test the line, then you test the meter again on said known HV >source. Then, normally, you connect the power line to earth, assuming >it's shown to be dead. And only then do you touch it. > >Some HV meters used for this sort of thing have a 'proving unit' (a small >PSU that gives out a few kV at a minimal current, running off batteries) >in the carrying case for these tests. > >> 1950 v from an electron multiplier supply because the meter read around 40 >> volts. There was a common failure mode of this supply that it would shut >> down to 40 v. Instead of walking around to shut it off before > >Ouch!. That's not pleasant :-(. Oh, and never trust indicator lamps (they >can burn out), and never trust on/off switches to isolate something. Pull >the mains plug and put it where you can see it (or some idiot will plug >it in again). > >I'll add another 'rule'... When you are sure something is not live, brush >it with the back of your finger. If, by some strange chance it _is_ still >live, your finger will be thrown off. Touch it with the front of your >finger and you'll be forced into better contact with it. > >-tony >

26 years, 4 months

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Cipher F880 Manual (copy) Available

by af-list＠wfi-inc.com

I didn't expect such a response for this! Tell you what I'll do, since I don't really have the proper facilites for making good copies of the extended pages...I'll just scan it and post it within the next couple of days to the web site. BTW, the actual nice paper copy I have was spoken for within 5 minutes or so of my original post... Cheers, Aaron

26 years, 4 months

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Is ringing voltage dangerous?

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>RULE 1, unless the voltage is very low it _can_ be dangerous. Low is hard > number be exact about but, over 12-30V is the watch out zone. >RULE 2, All efforts are to be made to avoid crossing the heart or chest > as a possible path for safety. One hand in pocket rule is derived > from this. >RULE 3, if you not sure, make sure. get a meter and find out if it's live > and how hot hot is. I just want to add a rule - Don't always trust what the meter says. I took 1950 v from an electron multiplier supply because the meter read around 40 volts. There was a common failure mode of this supply that it would shut down to 40 v. Instead of walking around to shut it off before disconnecting the meter (after all the supply was dead right? ) I just disconnected the meter. Surprise the supply was good and the meter was dead. I almost was also. I had severe cramps in that arm and shoulder for almost 2 days. Dan >Over the years working with RF and transmitters I've been hit with RF and >DC to 1800V (ouch!) and LF AC power to 200V/400hz. Some were annoying, >a few painful, one nearly bluecrossed me and the better ones left scars >(and a willingness to NOT stick fingers in). > > >Allison > >

26 years, 4 months

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RT-11 version 2 manual available...

by af-list＠wfi-inc.com

Hi all, I finally got the rest of the RT-11v2 System Reference Manual online tonight: http://www.prinsol.com/~aaron/classiccmp/rt11v2manual/ I haven't had time to put together the rest yet (appendices, etc.) and I also have release notes from Fortran IV and some other stuff to put up. Also in the works are a couple of handbooks and the like, an IBM System/360 Fortran IV manual, some older SunOS docs...and whatever else I can find around here to scan. Cheers, Aaron :wq

26 years, 4 months

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Am2901 sbc

by dogas＠leading.net

I snapped a few cheesy shots of the AMD sbc but my camera is flaking out and the imaging is marginal. However, http://users.leading.net/~dogas/am2901.gif shows the entire board, and http://users.leading.net/~dogas/am2901display.gif zooms in a little on the LED displays.. Cheers - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

26 years, 4 months

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About the ringing voltage question...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

No, I wasn't really gonna zap my kid brother! That was a hypothetical question. I was more worried about zapping myself, and I try to follow the one-hand-in your-pocket rule whenever I can. I know better than to zap anyone with anything I wouldn't zap myself with. (But a good shot of signal voltage (+28VDC, 2 amps) across his earlobes next time he gets out of the shower is very tempting! J/K!) Oh, and the 9V battery story, I got told it was a Navy guy who fell on his voltmeter probes. It's probably another urban legend. -------

26 years, 4 months

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