Hi all,
Some days ago I posted a request to identify the FCB parameters to read
correctly a 8" disk CP/M.
I know that i was wrong in the subject so I would like to summarize and i
thank you for the suggestions and criticisms.
The data obtained directly with the STAT command DSK: are the following:
9600: 128 Byte Record Capacity
1200: Kilobyte Drive Capacity
128: 32 Byte Directory Entries
128: Checked Directory Entries
128: Records / Extent
16: Records / Block
64: Sectors / Track
2: Reserved tracks
2 SIDES
After further investigation the parameters for the correct reading would
appear as follows:
BEGIN SCO2 (1024 bytes/sector) - 8 DSDD "
MFM DENSITY, HIGH
CYLINDERS 77 SIDES 2 SECTORS 8,1024
Side1 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Side2 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
ORDER CYLINDERS
BSH 4 BLM 15 EXM 0 DSM 300 DRM 127 AL0 SFO 00H 11110000B AL1 2
END
The following additional information which I hope can clarify or help:
The inclusion of incorrect data was due to a misreading of my screen on the
console CP/M in the data down the email. The calculations were performed by
acquiring more information from the operating system CP/M manuals which
shows how to derive the parameters needed to compose and then subsequently
identified by extrapolating the FCB. The stat command dsk: when possible on
a working machine that is able to read the disk whose parameters are to be
identified can be useful, but if you can not read the disc seems to have
realized that the only way is to use anadisk and 22disk.
Anadisk reports:
Tracks 0 and 1 = single density 26x128byte with OS CP/M that points to a
resident BIOS involved in F800H entry points;
Tracks 2-76 = 8x1024byte double density with directory consists of 2 blocks
2048Byte for a total of 128 entries and the remaining space for data
SCO2 means disk2 SCOMAR machine (in Italy there was a PCB derived from the
Ferguson Bigboard I with a different 1797 FDC controller and BIOS and it has
been used to drive a knitting machine now discontinued and no longer
supported)
The diskette was created from a friend using software IMD of Dave Dunfield
and myself played on floppy 3.5 "1.44MB respecting the original features (or
almost I hope)
With these parameters i was able to read and write to the disk even it
remains some doubt as for example by adding the file to disk MBASIC.COM this
does not seem to properly turn on the machine that uses this disk format
Infact the main problem was that probabily the EXM value not make me able to
write files greater than 16KB and the picture visualized the 3 times the
same filename.
So any kind of suggestion to understand betfer the FCB structure and
parameters of CP/M will be welcome.
I would like to thank:
- For suggestions
allison for the valuable explanations and clarifications which go beyond the
simple description inherent in any textbook
Cisin Fred for the tip to detect the possible size of the FCB parameter BLS
analyzing the disk
About received criticism may i ask for:
- Could anybody give me the name of sw to reduce the size of a photo?
- And what used to convert it into text easily? (I have not had a chance to
do a dump from the screen)
- Where can I buy the registered version of 22disk or is no longer available
or supported?
I apologize again for my poor English that puts me in trouble to fully
understand the criticism received.
Have an happy new year 2012 to all.
Enrico - Pisa - ITaly
Wanted - Boards for KS-10: (PDP-20/DECSYSTEM-20)
40722 64K memory
M8629 64k memory
M8616 Console+Clock
M8618 memory controller
M8619 unibus adapter
M8621 Data path memory
M8620 Data path execute
M8622 Control Ram Address
M8623 Control Ram
I have a KS-10 with a few boards, but hopeful I'll be
able to complete it someday - getting it running after
that is another story :-) (Any leads on where to find
those boards would be greatly appreciated).
Thanks,
Ed Taussig
WHAT brand and model computer are you talking about?
On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Enrico Lazzerini wrote:
> Well this is all i know:
> 8"
> STAT d:DSK:
> 9600 r: 128 Byte Record Capacity
> 1200 k: Kilobyte Drive Capacity
> 128 d: 32 Byte Directory Entries
> 128 c: Checked Directory Entries
> 128 e: Records/ Extent
> 16 b: Records/ Block
> 64 s: Sectors/ Track
> 2 t: Reserved Tracks
> 2 SIDES
> This is that I calculate:
> BEGIN SCO2 (1024 bytes/sector) - DSDD 8"
> DENSITY MFM ,HIGH
1200K disk capacity is close to maximum for an 8" diskette.
It is what you expect from 8" DSDD. "High" would be incorrect usage, but
>from a 5.25" perspective, it fits.
> CYLINDERS 77 SIDES 1 SECTORS 8,1024
NO.
You can not get 1200K disk capacity from single sided.
> SIDE1 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
> SIDE2 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
Those are 10 sectors per side. You said 8
Are you sure that that is the sector sequence?
> Here what 22disk tell me:
> http://elazzerini.interfree.it/Foto2982.jpg
> Where I'm wrong?
1) Instead of transcribing some text, you sent a URL to a picture that is
more than 2 MEGAbytes. (a photograph of your screen?)
THANK YOU for sending the URL instead of attaching it!
A) Not everybody reads their mail in a web browser. Sending a URL
requires cut and paste to get it TO the web browser.
B) Believe it or not, some of us use dial-up! 2M takes too long.
C) Surely that file could be MUCH smaller. Thats a kilobyte for
each character on the screen.
Was it an error message? That would only call for a few lines of text.
Was it a scrambled display, such as non-ASCII characters in filenames?
2) You are posting asking for technical support for an unregistered copy
of a program on a forum where the author is an active participant! If you
REGISTER the program, then he will provide support, maybe even an updated
copy of the program, etc. (It may have additional formats now!)
You didn't tell us the name of the format.
You didn't tell us the form of your calculations. Were they a wild
guess? or did you look at sectors on the disk to determine them?
What "side-pattern" is it? Does it alternate sides before incrementing
cylinder, or does it increment cylinder first, and use the first side
before starting on the second? Does it then go UP the second side, or
DOWN?
You didn't provide us with hex dumps of the directory sectors. NO, DO NOT
SEND US MORE PHOTOGRAPHS! If the problem is in the directory, then
let's see THAT! It's 32 bytes per directory entry/extent - depending on
what the problem is, it might not take more than a few.
> [BASIC-09]
>
>> > Never even heard of that one, but then, I've never seen or used OS/9 I'm my
> I am not suprised, It wasn't that common.
>
>> > life. Never owned a Dragon or any other 6809 box.
> I ran it on my CoCos. In generla, the OS-9 languages were very nice for
> an 8-bit machine.
In the early 1980s I worked for a fork lift manufacturer, and we were
two persons who wrote a simple ISAM file database and a warehouse stock
control system for a Swedish 6809 machine from a company called Primal
Data. I have no idea why they chose that name, but their machines were
well made. They had MMUs so I think we had 1 MB of memory in them. We
wrote the software in Pascal under OS-9, some of it in Microware Pascal,
later we discovered another Pascal, the name of which escapes me at the
moment. I remember it compiled to machine code instead of p-code, and
had a lot of bells and whistles which we found useful, although slightly
buggy as opposed to Microware's Pascal which was quite solid IIRC. We
managed to work two or three people at the same time on one machine.
Compiling was dreadfully slow with only 5 1/4" diskettes and the
machines were much nicer when we had 10 MB hard disks (Rodime) put in them.
/Jonas
Hi
I will be getting additional SCSI to IDE/SD PCBs in mid-January 2012 in case
anyone would like some
Douglas's working SCSI to IDE/SD board with a firmware release is here
http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem/browse_thread/thread/5d5fb5bf2f197082#
The KiCAD EDA files are also posted on the N8VEM wiki
http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/browse/#view=ViewFolder¶m=MINI%20SCSI%20t
o%20IDE%20prototypes
It is not complete yet but a working Zapple debug monitor is *major
progress* towards a working bridge converter.
Am looking for additional development team members to finish out the
firmware on this project.
We are very close and just need some additional effort to complete the
project.
Serious responses only please.
Andrew Lynch
On 12/31/2011 01:43 AM, Josh Dersch wrote:
> Anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably featured 8080 or Z80
> BASIC?
>
> What I've got running at the moment is a mongrel IMSAI 8080 with a
> Z80, 48K of working memory and a serial port. My eventual goal is to
> get CP/M running on it (I have a Cromemco 64FDC -- anyone know of
> either an official CP/M for this or know of a BIOS that supports this
> controller before I start writing my own?) but for the time being I
> thought it would be fun to get a BASIC running on it.
>
If you have drives hooked up you will be able to run Cromemco CDOS with a
64-FDC and the obvious choices would be either Cromemco 16K Basic or 32K
Structured Basic (although 64K might be a better bet for that one).
You don't say what CPU board you have but I have run CDOS in an IMSAI with a
ZPU, 16-FDC and 64K and it runs nicely - lovely blinkenlights! Moving to
CP/M shouldn't be too hard but you will have to either find a pre-patched
one or integrate the IO and disk routines yourself and, catch 22, that needs
a working system to start with (chicken and egg of course).
If you do move to CP/M expect that the Cromemco Basic's won't work without
some patching as they typically use some CDOS calls not present in CP/M.
James
At 07:47 PM 11/30/2011, you wrote:
>m88k Systems use standard SCSI and can use anything up to 2GB without a
>problem. I have DG/UX 5.?? on CD and 4.?? on Tape here.
As far as I know, the one we have uses standard
SCSI (as opposed to what? Diff?) as well.
>-Matt
>
>On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Jules Richardson <
>jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Tom wrote:
> >
> >> I might be soon coming into possession of some Data General stuff. Maybe
> >> an Aviion 66. There's a second one, maybe a model 37? I'm not sure. No
> >> drives. I'm going to see what's there and post the inventory in the next
> >> few weeks. I've never heard of any demand for these; anyone know if there
> >> would be any interest?
> >>
> >
> > Well the m88k-based systems tickle my interest (for no other reason than
> > the choice of CPU) - I think they switched over to boring ol' Intel at some
> > point, though :-)
> >
> > I don't know how widespread copies of the OS are, and if there are any
> > 'gotchas' involved with rebuilding a machine that's lacking disks...
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Jules
> >
> >
471 . [Commentary] It is better to keep your
mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt. --Twain
NEW: a50mhzham at gmail.com ? N9QQB (amateur radio)
"HEY YOU" (loud shouting) ? Second Tops (Set Dancing) ? FIND ME ON FACEBOOK
43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W ? Elevation 815' ? Grid Square EN53wc
LAN/Telecom Analyst ? Open-source Dude ? Musician
? Registered Linux User 385531
My best wishes for the new year 2012 fly out to all subscribers of this
nice list! Time to say thank you to all who contributed and helped out with
the questions I had!
Have a nice new-years celebration and day,
Regards,
Wolfgang
--
Wolfgang Eichberger - OE5EWL
Operating System Collector
Blog: 5ewl.blogspot.com
Homepage: www.eichberger.org
Holm,
I asked one of my colleagues who is working on computer research in
Ukraine. He did not have a direct answer to your question, but provided
these sources to check for solutions to your problems:
http://forum.maxiol.com/index.php?showtopic=4599 - look here
http://ramlamyammambam.livejournal.com/149983.html?format=light - ask
here or maybe here:
http://ru-radio-electr.livejournal.com/229706.html?thread=3609418&format=li…
- I know user suvorow_ as a good specialist.
-Devin Monnens
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 16:44:24 +0100
> From: Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de>
> To: cctech at classiccmp.org
> Subject: russian PDP-11 like K1801BM2 CPU Startup reading w/o address?
> Message-ID: <20111203154424.GA56131 at pegasus.freiberg-net.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> I want to play with a russian K1801BM2 CPU (K1801VM2).
> My russian from the school is very very rusty and so I have problems to
> understand what's going on with this CPU while startup.
> There is some "besadresnoe tschtanie", a read from the bus w/o
> sending out an address before w/o active SYNC.
> It is right, that this read is building the upper 8 bits from the start
> address in the rom area with Systemu Mode (Halt Mode) = 1?
> Can anyone please confirm this?
>
> BTW: how is this external register to be done in HW?
>
> Does anyone know if there are schematics of SBCs existing w/o special
> support ICs like The K1801VP1-55 or so?
>
> Kind Regards and thanks in advance,
>
> Holm
> --
> Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
> Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
> www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
>
>
--
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
Hi!? I just received an email from the PCB manufacturer and they?ve shipped
the XT-IDE V2 PCBs.?
These PCBs allow you to use parallel IDE drives (or CF with adapters) on 8
bit ISA bus legacy PC/XT or similar computers.
Generally speaking, the XT-IDE with parallel IDE drives and/or CF adapters
are more reliable and readily available than legacy ST506/ST412 MFM/RLL hard
drive subsystems.
As before, these PCBs will be $12 each plus $2 shipping in the US and $5
elsewhere.
These are the Do-It-Yourself PCBs based on the plain TTL chip technology
like the XT-IDE V1 boards.?
More information can be found here
http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/browse/#view=ViewFolder¶m=XT-IDE%20V2
Thanks and have a nice day!
Andrew Lynch
Since several people here do this kind of thing, I figured I'd ask here.
I'm trying my hand at scanning stuff to PDF. The only thing I seem to
find for doing this in Linux is Simple Simple Scan. I'm scanning in photo
mode because text mode is unacceptably grainy. My problem now is
converting the resulting jpg into a pdf. ImageMagick is the obvious tool
for this, but no matter what I do, the resulting pdf is grainy. How can I
tell ImageMagick to not diddle with the quality?
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
----- Original message:
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:16:50 -0500
From: B Degnan <billdeg at degnanco.com>
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: 4x16K Datacraft core memory rack units available
Message-ID: <201112311517.pBVFH8TB047885 at billy.ezwind.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> > These are general purpose core that can be used in more than just the
> > Burroughs minis they came from. ?I know for example that a rack like
> > this
> > could be used with an S-100 computer or 8008 system.
>
>What Burroughs minis?
6000 series I assume, specifically I was told these came from a
prototype system (?) from the early 1970's, and were then surplused
after light use.
-------------
I'd hardly call a Burroughs 6x00 a "mini"...
http://www.retrocomputingtasmania.com/home/projects/burroughs-b6700-mainfra…
>> Please have a listen when you can. [...]
>
>> http://bit.ly/tmoDTL
>
> I had a look, but lynx didn't show me anything useful. Manually
> fetching and looking at it, I don't see anything amid the blizzard of
> HTML that I recognize as a reference to a soundfile - y'know, something
> listenable on classic computers (many of which, eg, my SPARCs, do have
> sound output hardware). But I'm probably missing something, because I
> also see some things that look like errors to my minimal knowledge of
> HTML, things like <a href='$manage-app-url$'>.
>
> So, where's the soundfile hiding?
Hi Mouse,
Sorry, I'm not so good at the tech of RSS and so on . . . that's why I use a Mac and iWeb, etc. But . . . I also post the files somewhere so they can be directly downloaded, so please try here - https://public.me.com/dgreelish
Best,
David Greelish, Computer Historian
President, Atlanta Historical Computing Society
Classic Computing
The Home of Computer History Nostalgia
http://www.classiccomputing.com
Classic Computing Blog
Retro Computing Roundtable podcast
"Stan Veit's History of the Personal Computer" audiobook podcast
Classic Computing Show video podcast
A friend of mine who was a software engineer at Digital Equipment
Corporation gave me a console panel for a System/360 model 65 that they had
in their office (the console panel, not the system).
I am restoring the console panel, and I'm creating an interface to a PC to
make all the lights and switches work as originally intended. I'm keeping a
blog of my progress at <http://ibm360-console.blogspot.com>
http://ibm360-console.blogspot.com.
I'm now looking for field engineering documentation (hardcopy or scans/pdfs)
in order to make the emulation as faithful as possible to the original.
These are some of the document titles I'm looking for:
System/360 Model 65, 2065 Processing Unit, Field Engineering Maintenance
Manual
System/360 Model 65, 2065 Processing Unit, Field Engineering Diagrams Manual
System/360 Model 65 Field Engineering Manual of Instruction
System/360 Model 65 Field Engineering Theory of Operation Manual
System/360 Model 65 CPU and Channels Training, Field Engineering Education
Supplementary Course Material
The same material for the model 60, 62 or 67 instead of the 65 would help
too, given the similarities between these machines.
One thing in particular that I'm looking for that would help a lot is a data
flow diagram showing the register and bus names. Another thing that would be
very useful is a listing of the BCROS microcode.
The functional characteristics manual (which is available on Bitsavers)
doesn't offer the level of detail I'd like.
Cheers,
Camiel
Everyone,
Please have a listen when you can. I'm working on part 2 this evening.
Let me know what you think of the interview, and hope you'll check out the whole thing!
http://bit.ly/tmoDTL
Best,
David Greelish, Computer Historian
President, Atlanta Historical Computing Society
Classic Computing
The Home of Computer History Nostalgia
http://www.classiccomputing.com
Classic Computing Blog
Retro Computing Roundtable podcast
"Stan Veit's History of the Personal Computer" audiobook podcast
Classic Computing Show video podcast
> > These are general purpose core that can be used in more than just the
> > Burroughs minis they came from. ?I know for example that a rack like this
> > could be used with an S-100 computer or 8008 system.
>
>What Burroughs minis?
6000 series I assume, specifically I was told these came from a
prototype system (?) from the early 1970's, and were then surplused
after light use. I don't have confirmation on that. They could be
used in a PDP 11/45 (?), IBM 3179, and I know first-hand that they
can be adapted for use in a microprocessor system as others of this
same model were used in a 8008 system (I think) homebrew project or
two that I have seen. Late core-era adaptable memory. If I get more
info I will let you know.
I still have at least one partial rack available if anyone is
interested contact me directly.
Bill
> Way back in 1980, Infocom posted an ad in the September 1980 issue of
> the DECUS Mini-Tasker (the DECUS RT-11 SIG newsletter). This was the
> first ad the Infocom ever produced and I'd like to get a scan of it
> for the book.
> Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find anyone who kept this
> newsletter. I've contacted a number of people in the DEC community
> but still no luck. Someone pointed me to this forum and said there
> might be someone here who could help.
John Dundas has this up on the web at:
http://dundas-mac.caltech.edu/~dundas/retro/DEC%20Docs/DECUS/mini-tasker/mt…
You want the bottom of page 47.
Tim.
Hi All,
In light of the wonderful cache of HP1000 software available now, and not
having any way to load it onto the machine I have to put my request in
again. I need a 13181B interface set for the tape drive. I'm happy to pay
and cover shipping to South Africa. I also have a 13183 set to swap if
someone is interested.
Etienne Vermeulen
Well I got around to setting up another computer with a
Buslogic Bt-542B SCSI controller. It uses a DP 8473 floppy
controller. Using Image Disk, it reads the Altos disk with out
errors, but chokes on writing one. I get write Error No Sector on
every sector. Drive is a Tandon TM848 E, tried another
of the same drives with the same results. Of coarse I tried
a few new floppies. The SD test program says the controller
can work with SD disks.
Any Ideas ??
- Jerry
Jerry Wright
g-wright @att.net
4x16K Datacraft core memory rack units available (the 5th slot in the
rack is for the controller) with Datacraft DC-38 Core and associated
power supply, contact me privately if interested.
Photos: http://www.vintagecomputer.net/datacraft/
(I believe I have it right that they're 4 x16K cores.)
These are general purpose core that can be used in more than just the
Burroughs minis they came from. I know for example that a rack like
this could be used with an S-100 computer or 8008 system.
The photo of the individual core card with the cover removed is an
extra, not part of the populated racks.
I am located in Landenberg, PA USA roughly between Baltimore and Philadelphia.
Bill
Hi All -
I'm writing a book about Infocom and I'm looking for your help finding
something.
Way back in 1980, Infocom posted an ad in the September 1980 issue of
the DECUS Mini-Tasker (the DECUS RT-11 SIG newsletter). This was the
first ad the Infocom ever produced and I'd like to get a scan of it
for the book.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find anyone who kept this
newsletter. I've contacted a number of people in the DEC community
but still no luck. Someone pointed me to this forum and said there
might be someone here who could help.
Does anyone here have this newsletter? If not, do you know of someone
who might? If anyone could help me out with this I'd very much
appreciate it.
Thanks!
- Rick Thornquist
Over Yule dinner, a friend offered me a free computer. Not really
vintage by CCtalk standards, I guess. A dual-core 2GHz G5 Mac Pro.
The thing is, I am considering getting rid of my PowerPC OS X Macs. I
like OS X very much, but despite Cameron's valiant efforts with the
very nifty TenFourFox, it's running out of current browsers and it
only runs a version of Mac OS X that's now 2 releases out of date. As
a writing tool, a G3 with MacOS 9.2 on it would almost be more use, as
it makes no pretence of being a current machine and one wouldn't
expect most modern websites to work...
I am torn. I'd love it, but I'm not sure I really have any use for it,
and I'm short on space and already paring back the collection... :?(
--
Liam Proven ? Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
Hi all
>From: Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com>
>
>Steve, it wasn't too much work. Not as bad as scanning the SDK-51 manuals
>with my manual feed flatbed scanner.
I have here the SDK-51 Assembly Manual, which I was planning to scan since
http://manx.classiccmp.org/details.php/47,13105
says it's not online.
If it is actually online, save me the trouble?
Also, the actual document is available for postage (from South Africa).
W
> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 15:07:11 -0800
> From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: A Yuletide dilemma
> Message-ID: <p06240807cb1ffde2b64a(a)[192.168.1.199]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
--- 8< ---
> Right now it's running Adobe Bridge, Photoshop, Lightroom, InDesign,
> and Acrobat as well as Phase One's Capture One, and a few other
> things. My performance issues are strictly related to RAM and Disk
> I/O. Actually the main performance problem is these **** HD's that
> go to sleep on their own when not being used, and there doesn't seem
> to be a way to turn off that behavior!
>
> Zane
--- 8< ---
Presumably un-checking 'Put the hard disk(s) to sleep when possible' in the
'Energy Saver' control panel doesn't have the desire effect?
Jim