test-drb December 2014

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

179 participants
207 discussions

No such thing as "the PDP" [was RE: Typesafety versus Worse is Better - was Re: Fwd: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?]

by RichA＠LivingComputerMuseum.org

From: Mark Wickens Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 12:47 AM > Has anyone considered whether it would be possible to port lua to the > PDP? You know, there never was (or only for a very short time) such a thing as "the PDP". DEC produced systems with 5 different architectures (or 4.5, if you lump the two 18-bit architectures together; I usually do) under the rubric "PDP-<small integer>": The PDP-1, the PDP-4/7/9/15, the PDP-5/8 family, the PDP-6/10 family, and the PDP-11 family. I would argue that only the original PDP-1 could rightly be called "the PDP", but even then, DEC had designed the 24-bit PDP-2 and the 36-bit PDP-3 which they did not build themselves, for a total of 7 architectures designated "PDP". Back when I was doing sales support for XKL, a lovely lady who did consulting in the oil industry advised me that we should be selling the Toad-1 in that market "because there are PDPs *everywhere* in the fields!" (Steps off soap box, walks away from Hyde Park.) (Hi, Mark! ;-) Rich Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer Living Computer Museum 2245 1st Avenue S Seattle, WA 98134 mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

10 years

Looking for: Corvus Concept parts

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Another one that's been on the back-burner for a long time. I have the main CPU unit, complete, but no monitor, keyboard or storage devices. Anyone out there have any of these lying around? Alternately, anyone looking for the main CPU unit to complete their system? Drop me a line... - Josh

10 years

Wanted: Twinax 5250 Style Terminal

by Kevin＠RawFedDogs.net

Classic Computer Enthusiasts, I should have an IBM 9406-270 arriving today or tomorrow. I think I've gathered everything I need to attempt an OS install except a console. I do have a second NIC that I've been told could be used for console access. But I suspect special console software would be required to do so, and all my PCs at home run Linux which would probably complicate things. I've also been told that when using a NIC for console access there are several gotchas to watch out for, such as a specific slot requirement for the NIC, etc. This being my first attempt at installing an OS on a 9406 anything that can be done to simplify the process and avoid having to worry about gotchas is probably a good thing. Plus, I like twinax terminals, especially the keyboards. So, does anyone have a suitable terminal in need of a good home? There are a few available from eBay, but I hate to pay more for a terminal than I did for the 270. I'll probably also need the multi-port twinax connector block that connects to the twinax card in the 270 if anyone has one to spare. There wasn't one listed in the eBay list for the 270, but I might get lucky and have it arrive with one included. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.

10 years

Scanning MACRO-11 Manual

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Johnny Billquist >> a copy of the "PDP-11 MACRO-11 Assembler Program Manual" >> (DEC-11-OMACA-A-D). > What do that manual contain? The PDP-11 MACRO-11 Language Reference > Manual is certainly online. (AA-KX10A-TC) That and a host of predecessors, going back to the "MACRO-11 Language Reference Manual", AA-5075A-TC, 1977-08: http://manx.classiccmp.org/details.php/1,5565 This one is fairly older; the date on it is April, 1972. Compared to the one above, this one is missing that one's Chapter 1 ("MACRO-11 Features"), this one has a different Chapter 1, "Fundamentals of Programming the PDP-11", covering topics like "Modular Programming", "Commenting PDP-11 Assembler Programs", "Localized Register Usage", "Conditional Assemblies", etc, etc. Past that, they seem to be pretty much the same, until you get to Chapter 8, "Operating Procedures", which is missing in the later one. This one has an Appendix D, "Listing of SYSMAC.SML" which is missing in the later one, which has an Appendix E, "Sample Coding Standard", which this one lacks. So not too many differences. Whether this is worth having online also, given that there are numerous later versions ... dunno. Opinions? Noel

10 years

Can you ID / document this RS-232 to Current Loop converter?

by drlegendre＠gmail.com

Hey gents, I tried the greenkeys list, but to no avail. So let's see who knows what around here... I recently acquired a pair of these RS-232 -to- CL converters. They are branded "ED&M" or possibly "EDeM" - but they seem to have been made by an outfit called Camiacs. They are marked Model V or Model 5. The circuit boards are marked "CAM 25-116A" in one corner. Photos can be seen here: https://nerp.net/~legendre/greenkeys/rs232_cl_converter_01.jpg https://nerp.net/~legendre/greenkeys/rs232_cl_converter_02.jpg Does anyone have documents for these units? They have several sets of internal jumpers, to configure various RS-232 parameters as well as passive / active states for the current loop side - Rx+ / Rx- Tx+ / Tx- etc. Any ideas? Any documents? Thanks in advance!

10 years

Fwd: is there any word processing software for the pdp11?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rich Alderson > The first non-PDP-10 port was written in MACLISP for Multics--a 36-bit > architecture!--by Bernie Greenberg Depends on what you define as 'EMACS'... :-) The PDP-11 TECO with real-time display mode which I was talking about earlier had, when in real-time mode, a command on every single control character, most of them the same as EMACS. (E.g. typing ^U^K would kill 4 lines, from the point onward.) And you could write custom code for it. (In TECO, no less!) But it didn't have the rich command set of EMACS (although as of that date, EMACS was still in a bit of flux - many people still had their own private macros/command sets - MOON's was famously different). According to: http://www.multicians.org/mepap.html (which is a very nice, complete, history of Multics Emacs, BTW), Multics Emacs didn't run until March, 1978; the PDP-11 real-time display TECO was running well before that. (We all used ITS some, for ARPANET email, etc, so we wanted the same kind of powerful editing tool.) Not that it really matters any more - just trying to be historically accurate! > From: Jerome H. Fine > Since the "Subject" specified "word processing software", I assumed > that would exclude TECO which I regard as a "text editor" Two words: 'topic drift'! :-) Hey, just responding to other messages (e.g. above). > From: Chuck Guzis > DIBOL. :) Hey, if you're running one of the later 11's, the ones with CIS, reputedly DIBOL runs _really fast_ on them! (Well, fast for an -11... :-) Noel

10 years

Yay, now I need some Osborne boot media!

by drlegendre＠gmail.com

Thanks to the efforts of several members, my Osborne Vixen is up & running with a working display. But now the dang thing is begging me for a disc that I don't have.. =/ Could someone possibly send me some boot-media for this machine? As things sit, I don't even have a PC with a 5-1/4" drive installed, if (and that's +if+) it were capable of writing discs for the Osborne format. I've tried feeding it media for Epson & Kaypro CP/M machines, but no dice - it rejects them without a second seek. Anyone know how to handle this?

10 years

36bit still in use ?

by jacob＠dahl-pind.dk

Given the certain overlap of interests some of you might have seen this, please bare over with me. On the talk of copyright status on TOPS-10/20 on the hecnet maillist, it was hinted at tops-20 where used embedded for routers from XKL, running on reimplemnted pdp10 hardware. <qoute> Unfortunately I do not have much details. I was at the Living Computer Museum and talked with RIch Alderson, who used to work at XKL. And he showed me a newer generation router from XKL, opened up, at LCM. And they use a PDP-10 on a chip, and it was actually running TOPS-20, and I could play around at the EXEC level in there. </quote> Findes it somewhat hard to imagine anyone would take 36bit architectur and build a router around it. But it does seem posible they really do, I visisted ftp://xkl.com/pub/download/ tar xvf DarkStar_v3.0.0.tgz and looking in upgrade-example.txt I sees things as System Processor (XKL-2) 2. XMH-1 (256MW), Testing: SDdAa, on line at LPN o0 Reading 0704 pages 0704000 words read in 36 bit mode .. Its alive! who would have though that -- Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8

10 years

Scanning MACRO-11 Manual

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

So it turns out that I have a copy of the "PDP-11 MACRO-11 Assembler Program Manual" (DEC-11-OMACA-A-D). I see that Manx says no copies of this are online: http://manx.classiccmp.org/details.php/1,4416 Alas, I don't have a page-feeder scanner, and it looks to be well over 100 pages; a bit much to feed by hand. Anyone out there with such a scanner willing to scan it for us? (I want to hang onto the hardcopy, which is why I don't simply send it to Al.) Noel

10 years

rain.c

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote: > > > Tell us what you see when you use the C-preprocessor only on that file: > > gcc -E rain.c |less > > and then search in the output for setbuf: > > > float cols, lines; > > setbuf(__stdoutp,malloc(1024)); > if (!(term=getenv("TERM"))) { > ok, Holm, on OpenSolaris, gcc -E rain.c |less gives: float cols, cur_term-> _c3; setbuf((&__iob[1]),malloc(1024)); if (!(term=getenv("TERM"))) { I think that means it worked, right? --jake

10 years

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test-drb December 2014