test-drb March 2007

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

239 participants
488 discussions

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 17:35:19 -0400 From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> Subject: Re: ftp archives disappearing? <snippage> ... >The massive influx of clueless morons has changed the >Internet considerably, to be sure, but the core of what it was is >still there and still works just fine, IF you choose to make use of it. -------- Well, I think that the biggest change, at least in a negative sense, is the malware and security problems so prevalent today, and in my opinion many of the people ultimately responsible for the trojans and virii and keeping the spam ahead of the filters are not clueless morons at all. In fact, they're probably a lot like you, computer literate, elitist and contemptuous of anyone who chooses to invest his or her time and intelligence in areas other than the arcane intricacies of computers and just uses them as tools (and runs Microsoft software of course ;-). ===================== On Mar 14, 2007, at 12:44 PM, Jules Richardson wrote: >> (I had exactly the same issues with VCRs the other day - they're >> still useful *to me*, but planet-wide they're dead as a dodo, >> superseded by DVD and PVR technology, so I had to bite my tongue >> when someone declared them obsolete :-) Dave: > Indeed, I know how you feel...the same thing happens to me with a >few things that I use that just happen to be "not new" (which, to the >99% of our society that doesn't think, now means "old"). Jules: >> [and there's a real danger with people confusing obsolescence with >> "no longer any good" - to my mind they're often totally different >> things] Dave: > Yes, that is infuriating. I emailed a question to the >manufacturer of a piece of test equipment that I have here, and the >response was "that product is obsolete". Well that's interesting...I >use it every day, it works great, and the company hasn't released >anything better since then. > Despite what corporations seem to think, true obsolescence is >determined by the USERS and the CUSTOMERS, not the vendors. There's >a big, big difference between "this is obsolete" and "we'd like to >sell you something different now". > Now, of course there's the matter of unreasonably expecting a >company to spend the resources to support a product long after it has >been discontinued. But again, that's not "that product is obsolete", >that's "we don't make that product anymore and we can't spend the >resources to support it". BIG difference. > Infuriating. > -Dave ----------------------------------- Sorry to hear that the word "obsolete" troubles you both so. As one of the 99% that (in Dave's opinion) doesn't think, I'd certainly consider something that's no longer manufactured or supported "obsolete" and, in comparison with something new, even "old." Whether it's still useful or, like Tony, you or I accept or even prefer its limitations in the current context and continue to use an AT to browse the 'Web is not really relevant. Sorry to say, it's the rest of us who prefer the convenience and extra features of DVDs & PVRs and enjoy full colour and motion video and audio on the 'Web (and of course the manufacturers who give us what we want) who decide what's obsolete. And you should be grateful: if DECs, HPs etc. weren't considered obsolete you probably wouldn't be able to afford 'em. And Jules, the next time someone you know buys a DVD player to replace that "obsolete" VCR, instead of biting your tongue just take the VCR off their hands and smile because you just got a free spare. m

17 years, 9 months

ftp archives disappearing?

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Dave McGuire wrote: Yes, that is infuriating. I emailed a question to the manufacturer of a piece of test equipment that I have here, and the response was "that product is obsolete". Well that's interesting...I use it every day, it works great, and the company hasn't released anything better since then. Despite what corporations seem to think, true obsolescence is determined by the USERS and the CUSTOMERS, not the vendors. There's a big, big difference between "this is obsolete" and "we'd like to sell you something different now". Now, of course there's the matter of unreasonably expecting a company to spend the resources to support a product long after it has been discontinued. But again, that's not "that product is obsolete", that's "we don't make that product anymore and we can't spend the resources to support it". BIG difference. Infuriating. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL Billy: I agree that "obsolete" has different meanings for different people. For you, if it still functions, then it is not obsolete. So a model A is not obsolete because it still works. But for a manufacturer, more than just supporting a product - does it still generate revenue? That is what "works" means to a business. The product may be great, it may last for 50 years. But if it doesn't generate revenue, it is obsolete. You look for functionality - OEMs look for revenue. Obsolete then has multiple meanings depending on your viewpoint. I consider the Apple II obsolete - yet my machine still works great. I think you are saying that to you, the Apple II is not obsolete. By your criteria, is there ANY machine, computer or otherwise, that is obsolete? Can you give us an example or two of an obsolete machine? This is of great interest to me, because I'm in the middle of a new market (TVs with hard drives). All hard drives made today are regarded by the manufacturers as obsolete after 5 years max. (The parts are no longer made, the interface is different, the tooling is gone, etc.) There is no PRACTICAL way to extend the obsolescent point and still stay in business. But TVs are expected to have a normal life of 15 years before becoming obsolete (in the eyes of the industry, not the user). It's a big dilemma for us. Billy

17 years, 9 months

ftp archives disappearing

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

? Ethan Dicks wrote: On 3/14/07, Billy Pettit <Billy.Pettit at wdc.com <http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> > wrote: > But TVs are expected to have a normal life of 15 years before becoming > obsolete (in the eyes of the industry, not the user). It's a big dilemma > for us. Try buying an analog (non-HD) TV and trying to get 15 years out of it in the US. It'll make a fine monitor for a cable box or a DVD player or a VCR, but it won't work as a TV after 2009. Would that not be "obsolete" well before 15 years? -ethan To me, certainly. But then I regard any analog TV as obsolete already, even if it is still in production. And I don't know anybody trying to put a hard drive in an analog TV. It really serves no useful purpose. Billy

17 years, 9 months

Philips Micom 2001 in Rochester NY - pick-up only

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

Do not respond to me, please contact townmike at yahoo.com if interested. ------------------------------------------------ > Dear Sir or Madam: > > I have a Philips Micom 2001 that I no longer need > and I am wondering if you know someone who could use > it. I don't want to simply throw it away. I have > the operating software and the manuals, as well as > the printer that came with it. Everything worked > the last time that I used it. I don't have the two > countertops, but I may be able to get them. > > The computer is in Rochester, NY, USA. > > Please contact me if you know of someone who would > like this computer system. > > Thank you - townmike at yahoo.com > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

17 years, 9 months

Darkhorse Systems SIMM tester

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Does anyone have a manual for the Darkhorse Systems, Inc. SIGMA LC SIMM tester? Specifically, I'm most interested in the "COMM" port. What's the pinout, what's the protocol, and what are the speed/stop-bit/parity settings? Is it for attaching to a printer only, or can I connect it to a computer? Thanks! Doc

17 years, 9 months

Introduction And Questions About Media Preservation? "MostlyDecStuff"

by fsmith＠ladylinux.com

On Thursday 15 March 2007 03:01:05 am cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: Dwight Wrote .. > There is at least one SA851 on eBay right now. One also > just sold for about $30. Yep I have my eyes on a couple. I am loathe to pay 30.00 for a untested drive though. -- Kindest Regards, Francesca Smith "No Problems Only Solutions" Lady Linux Internet Services Baltimore, Maryland 21217

17 years, 9 months

SWTPC craze

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Richard wrote: Dude. 10 years ago I don't know if this "hobby" was on anyone's radar. Did ebay even exist 10 years ago? At any rate, 10 years seems like such a long time for this hobby that I don't know how you could compare 10 years ago to now. Billy writes: Oh come on! SWTPC kits were all the rage 30 years ago. Ever see one of their calculators? Ever use a KIM or SYM? 10 years is for the newbies to the hobby. Long before eBay, we had Ham Fests, fleas markets, government auctions, bankruptcy sales, etc. Some very serious scrounging and repairing took place. Maybe there were no terminals in mile high piles. But we sought out Teletypes, Flexowriters, Dura Machines, etc. I guess it hinges on what you mean by "hobby". Before the 1975 Mark 8 article, there were clubs around the US and England for homebrew computers. Most used TTL. Many had home made ROMS made from diode arrays. Quite a few copied instruction sets from DEC, DG so they could use the software. But these were true computers and true computer hobbyists. If you were extremely lucky, you found an entire computer. My first PDP-8 was dropped off a truck and sold by the pound by the insurance company. This was well before microprocessors were available. My first home built used DTL logic and serial shift registers for memory, circa 1965. And I had several friends who also were active computer hobbyists and built their own designs. Okay, so we're old farts and now that the dinosaurs went extent, we don't count as part of the hobby any more. But dammit, 10 years is nothing. I know a few other survivors who have been playing with home computers for 50 years! Billy

17 years, 9 months

11/45 progress

by jwest＠ezwind.net

A darlington (Q1) and a zener (D3) later... and my +15v (as well as -15v) has returned to the requisite spots on the backplane. Thanks a TON for the schematics Christian & Al, extra thanks to Al for the entire 11/45 printset!! Oh, and Tony, the description of the power supply circuit and test points was most helpfull. Thank you! I understand the supply itself, but I'm not sure I understand the control circuits just after the darlington that will shut it down. The machine now springs to life and passes all the front panel tests I would normally do. I did manual store/recall of various patterns in core. "clr pc" in loc 0 loops as does "br ." in any location. The box also passes a trap catcher program. Lastly, it passes a memory address test (puts the address of each memory location in each memory location and then verifies). Next I would like a way to test interrupts in this minimal configuration (that was where the problem was before, no matter what device interrupted it would always trap to the same address). I would assume I have to put something like an M7856 in next in order to test this. Sound like a reasonable next step? Remember, in the config I have right now I've just got 3 quad SPC slots... hex cards are not an option (yet). On another note... the power control board (5409730) was well... really poorly soldered. I'm not an expert solderer, but those joints looked awfull. Not to mention I had a difficult time getting any of the old solder to be absorbed by my solderwick. Is this a characteristic of old solder? My iron was at 750f, I'd think that'd be plenty (it is for my own new solder). Thanks for the input folks! Jay West

17 years, 9 months

SWTPC craze

by legalize＠xmission.com

Clearly SWTPC is a brand that is just as desirable as CompuColor. ebay Item # 190088674069 CT-64 terminal with minor case damage and no matching monitor. 12 bids, closed at $625.25 Another item out of my price range... I had to fight really hard to get my Cromemco Beehive -- I imagine the Cromemco OEM label is the only thing that kept it out of the scrappers hands. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

17 years, 9 months

the Tandy 2000 and GIFs

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

according to this: http://www.preterhuman.net/texts/computing/general/format.txt there is a program by which the T2K can display gif images. The only graphics package (besides Autocad) that was graphics oriented was Lumena, and that was so old I sincerely doubt gifs were around then. If anyone happens to know if this is true, please inform. That site seems to have a number of text files archived, some possibly vintage oriented. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front

17 years, 9 months

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test-drb March 2007