All,
one of those days.
comp.sys.next.marketplace contained the following, which I
forward FWIW. I can't get either the from: or the reply-to: address
to work. Not so surprised about the reply-to:, considering.
Anyone near Chicago that wants to spend some time tracing
Beverly down, good luck! If you are successful, I may be able to help
with a KB, I have lots of those to spare (dirty, can test for
functionality).
Thanks to lots of you for help on the Sun Ultra drive!
---
Path:
sn-us!sn-xit-10!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-07!supernews.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr19.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!22d5151e!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.unix.misc
From: "Bev A. Kupf" <bevakupf at myhome.net>
Subject: Want a piece of nostalgia? Giving my NeXT cube away
Organization: Bev's House of Pancakes
Reply-To: orinxhcs at foptybony.arg (ebg13)
Followup-To: comp.sys.next.marketplace
Message-ID: <slrndgs0m5.6jm.bevakupf at myhome.net>
Lines: 15
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:41:25 GMT
I have a NeXT cube that hasn't been used in 6 years. 25 Mhz 68040,
64 Mb RAM, 2 GB drive (may not be functional). I no longer have
the monitor or keyboard or mouse.
If you'd like this, write back within a day to <bevakupf at sbcglobal.net>
I need to pass it on to someone, or toss it by Saturday or Sunday, and
it'll break my heart to toss it - my thesis was written on it ...
Be great if you could just pick it up - I'm in Chicago.
Beverly
--
Many a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer
---
--
- Mark
210-522-6025, temporary cell 240-375-2995
>
>Subject: Re: Bit of CP/M trivia needed
> From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey at amd.com>
> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 10:59:55 -0700 (PDT)
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>
>Hi Allison
> I did tell a slight fib, there is truly not ROMs or
>PROMs in my IMSAI. There is no ROM code that runs on the
>8080 that gets the machine started. The controller does
>have PROMs in it but not for the 8080.
> The controller for the drives exist in the drive box.
>There is a bus interface card in the IMSAI. The controller
>is all TTL based and has several small PROMs to control
>sequencing for read/write/format operations. Only
>small additional states are needed to do the bootstrap.
>Mainly resetting registers and then doing a single sector
>read. On the IMSAI, to boot, all I do is a STOP, RESET.
>The drive reads the first sector that has the code to
>load the rest. I then execute from address 0000 and
>it brings up the rest of CP/M. All of the 8080 code
>exist on the disk ( I know this because I built up this
>implementation of CP/M my self from scratch ).
> The drive has the typical sounding name of "Digital
>Systems" on it. I was told that this was a common
>drive setup before FDC chips came in to being. The
>controller part was common to other small computer systems
>that used this controller with different bus interface
>cards. I don't know the date of my machine but I can
>look it up, next time I'm with my machine. I was told
>the controller design existed before S-100 and was one
>of the earliest types of controllers used on S-100 systems
>since it only required the bus interface card that
>is mostly just buffers and some logic to handle
>unique S-100 bus protocol.
> The controller is quite large. It covers the area of
>two 8 inch drives laying flat plus supply. When I got the
>machine, I had not disk at all. I also noted that there was
>no ROM in the IMSAI. After asking around, I found a
>friend that had schematics for the controller and interface
>card but no software. He'd had an early machine and
>had replaced his controller with a newer floppy controller
>card. I hand decoded the PROMs on the controller to determined
>how the state machine did its control of the drive.
>I then wrote my own bootstrap to load onto the first
>sector. I got a copy of CP/M2.2 from Gaby's web page.
>Of course, like many of these old machines, it also
>needed several replacement parts to get it going.
> I have since been in contact with another fellow that
>has one of these controllers and he had a boot disk!
>The code on it was almost identical to mine :)
> I'll look at the date codes of my machine, the next time
>I have access to it.
> So, in a sense, you are correct that there needs to be
>code someplace but all the reset does is clears the registers
>and starts the state machine that is the controller. The
>8080 does nothing until the first sector is loaded. Seeing
>how simple this was, I'm surprised that early FDC
>chips didn't include this ability. I guess it was that
>most didn't expect to be in DMA setups.
>Dwight
>
Ah, you answer a question. Actually I'd only seen one of those
and indeed they were very expensive and rare then and now. The
typical micro system of the day didn't have DMA due to the hardware
and associated cost. Not to forget that state machine is a simple
processor with a fixed program so it's cheating and right fine
hardware too. ;)
The DSD880 and RX01/02 drives are of a similar design with a local
CPU (crude TTL logic state hardware or 2901s) to do all the heavy
lifiting at that floppy interface end with a trivial interface
to the processor bus. Neither include boot logic.
As to DMA on FDCs well SMC did one that had it but it was a PITA
to use as every bus is differnt and timing plus control signals
required a lot of work to integrate. Most FDCs were trying to be
generic and to keep die size down (hence cost) things were not
done that would make the chip system specific.
Also FDC development from 1975 to 1980 was like CPUs, RAM and
Eproms. A constant progression of increased capability and
speed. The first parts (pre WD1771) were barely a sync USART
with AM detection and required considerable CPU handholding.
There were a few controllers that faked DMA by using a second FDC
and their value was they could load memory even if the main cpu was
locked up assuming Ram and the bus worked ok. But the board obviously
was a temporary master and had some code.
But if you want typical then look no further than the intel MDS. That
was the default lauching platform for from what I'd seen for 1.3, 1.4
and later. More than a few Altair and IMSAI users had to toggle in
a relatively short boot to get going.
Allison
Just grab any 80-pin ultra scsi drive. Just be careful about heat
dissipation though. I just bought two 73Gb scsi drives for my Ultra 2 on
ebay for $150. Make sure whatever drive you buy that it is a 1" height
drive otherwise it will NOT fit in the drive cage. Remove the existing
sleds from the quantum drive and put it on the new drive and slip it in.
Very easy to do. IIRC, the SCSI connector is a ULTRA 160, but you can use
the higher rates as it is backward compatible. The model I bought are the
Seagate Cheetah ST373307LC (UlTRA 320 80-pin SCSI drives). Make sure it is
80-pin and NOT 68-pin!!!
Ram
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Tapley [mailto:mtapley at swri.edu]
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 12:52 PM
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: OT: Help! Sun Ultra 1 HD replacement?
>
>
> All,
> Apologies, I'm probably at least 2 years off-topic.
>
> Have a Sun Ultra 1 with a non-functional Quantum hard drive,
> model number seems to be VK45JZF1. It's in a sled with a lever on the
> front, and the connector is a funky thing with a central ridge rather
> than pins. This is for a work project.
>
> Where can I find a replacement fairly quickly?
>
> How much should I expect to pay?
>
> What's with the strange interface?
>
> Replies here would be better, on-list OK.
>
> TIA!
>
> --
> - Mark
> 210-522-6025, temporary cell 240-375-2995
>
>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net>
>
>>
>>Subject: Re: Bit of CP/M trivia needed
>> From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey at amd.com>
>> Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 14:40:18 -0700 (PDT)
>> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>>
>>>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Subject: Bit of CP/M trivia needed
>>>> From: "Brian Knittel" <brian at quarterbyte.com>
>>>> Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 00:58:01 -0700
>>>> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>>>>
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>Does anybody out there know for certain when the
>>>>term BIOS was coined? I believe it was Gary Kildall,
>>>>and from what I can find, it was around 1978 that
>>>>he abstracted the I/O and localized it in what
>>>>he called the BIOS. Anyone know differently?
>>>
>>>The term BIOS is older, early '77. It came into use with
>>>V1.3 I think and for cetertain in V1.4.
>>>
>>>>Also -- was the BIOS stored on the CP/M
>>>>floppy, or was it in ROM/EPROM? If not, how
>>>>did CP/M machines boot? Was there a dedicated
>>>>boot ROM that was used just for startup, and
>>>>then the BIOS took over? I had one back in
>>>>the day, but I sure can't remember this detail.
>>>
>>>The easy answer is yes. Tranditional CP/M systems the
>>>CCP/BDOS and BIOS were on the first two reserved tracks
>>>of the floppy (8" SSSD) and those were loaded by a boot
>>>rom.
>>
>>Hi
>> My understanding was that the first ones had no ROM
>>and used a DMA controller that loaded bootstrapping
>>code from the first sector on reset. I have such a
>>controller on my machine. All RAM, no ROMs.
>>Dwight
>
>While possible even the DMA controller needed logic to get
>it going. The earliest machines (8080) used front pannels
>to manually enter a small boot into ram.
>
>Most of the Intel machines however had at least minimal
>rom if only there to boot a booter.
>
>As it would turn out a DMA controller before the 8257
>(LSI device) was a lot of electronics in itself. They
>were rare and not often seen in micros as it represents
>a lot of hardware even in minimal form.
>
>Identify that machine you have and it's vintage.
>
>Allison
>
Hi Allison
I did tell a slight fib, there is truly not ROMs or
PROMs in my IMSAI. There is no ROM code that runs on the
8080 that gets the machine started. The controller does
have PROMs in it but not for the 8080.
The controller for the drives exist in the drive box.
There is a bus interface card in the IMSAI. The controller
is all TTL based and has several small PROMs to control
sequencing for read/write/format operations. Only
small additional states are needed to do the bootstrap.
Mainly resetting registers and then doing a single sector
read. On the IMSAI, to boot, all I do is a STOP, RESET.
The drive reads the first sector that has the code to
load the rest. I then execute from address 0000 and
it brings up the rest of CP/M. All of the 8080 code
exist on the disk ( I know this because I built up this
implementation of CP/M my self from scratch ).
The drive has the typical sounding name of "Digital
Systems" on it. I was told that this was a common
drive setup before FDC chips came in to being. The
controller part was common to other small computer systems
that used this controller with different bus interface
cards. I don't know the date of my machine but I can
look it up, next time I'm with my machine. I was told
the controller design existed before S-100 and was one
of the earliest types of controllers used on S-100 systems
since it only required the bus interface card that
is mostly just buffers and some logic to handle
unique S-100 bus protocol.
The controller is quite large. It covers the area of
two 8 inch drives laying flat plus supply. When I got the
machine, I had not disk at all. I also noted that there was
no ROM in the IMSAI. After asking around, I found a
friend that had schematics for the controller and interface
card but no software. He'd had an early machine and
had replaced his controller with a newer floppy controller
card. I hand decoded the PROMs on the controller to determined
how the state machine did its control of the drive.
I then wrote my own bootstrap to load onto the first
sector. I got a copy of CP/M2.2 from Gaby's web page.
Of course, like many of these old machines, it also
needed several replacement parts to get it going.
I have since been in contact with another fellow that
has one of these controllers and he had a boot disk!
The code on it was almost identical to mine :)
I'll look at the date codes of my machine, the next time
I have access to it.
So, in a sense, you are correct that there needs to be
code someplace but all the reset does is clears the registers
and starts the state machine that is the controller. The
8080 does nothing until the first sector is loaded. Seeing
how simple this was, I'm surprised that early FDC
chips didn't include this ability. I guess it was that
most didn't expect to be in DMA setups.
Dwight
>
>Subject: RE: Portable Altair
> From: "'Computer Collector Newsletter'" <news at computercollector.com>
> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:10:57 -0400
> To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>Thanks to all who sent me this link:
>http://www.virtualaltair.com/virtualaltair.com/vac_attache.asp ... I guess
>the definition of "portable" varies quite a bit! Even the text of this ad
>refers to it as a "desktop" computer.
In that era (pre 1981) portable was very difficult as power needs were very
high. The only CMOS cpus were 1802 and 6100(PDP-8) for the most part. So
portable was the same as color TV,IE: you can pick up by a provided handle
and move it a distance. Compared to a fully loaded NS* or altair8800B (at
some 60 pounds for the cpu box and another 60 for the disk box) the idea of
portable (transportable) is significant.
At that time I did build one machine with a dual floppy and a minimal PS
for 4 s100slots (Z80, 64k ram, VDM1, FDC) that was very light. Still
required carrying a keyboard, monitor, System box the the total package
was under 40 pounds. FYI: The bulk of the weight was the two Floppies
(SA400s diecast aluminum) and the power transformer. lightweight
switching supplies were rare then.
Allison
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
>On Behalf Of 'Computer Collector Newsletter'
>Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 10:58 PM
>To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
>Subject: Portable Altair
>
>Hi folks,
>
>I posted this message tonight to a couple of Altair sites, but might as well
>ask on the big list too: does anyone know about the existence of a portable
>Altair, which was designed as the "Altair 2"...? According to Steven Levy's
>book "Hackers" (p. 257), by mid-1976, Ed Roberts "had been designing an
>exciting new Altair 2 computer -- a high-powered, compact machine which
>could fit inside a briefcase" before selling the company to Pertec.
>
>I'm more interested in the computer's size / form factor than its technical
>abilities, since I mostly study the history of portable systems.
>
> - Evan
>
>-----------------------------------------
>Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Also see:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/
>Where did PDAs come from? http://www.snarc.net/pda/pda-treatise.htm
>
>*** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter
>- 770 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us!
>- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all
>- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com
From: "Ashley Carder" <wacarder at earthlink.net>
>> > I have a couple of copies of the "Computer Lab Workbook".
>> >
>> > Do either of yours have a complete set of patch cords?
>> >
>> > Vince
>>
>> They both have a number of different length patch cords with them, but
>> since I don't have the documentation for them, I'm not sure what
>> constitutes a complete set.
>
> Unfortunately, I can't find that information in the workbook, either.
> There is a picture of some patch cords on the cover, and I can count
> them, but that's not exactly authoritative. (There's only one green
> wire shown, for instance, and mine has four.)
>
> Vince
I will count mine tonight when I get home from work and let you know
how many of which types are included with my two Computer Labs.
Ashley
>> Does anyone have the manual or workbook for a DEC Computer Lab,
>> which is a classroom logic trainer that was made by DEC back in
>> the late 1960s? I recently acquired two of these interesting
>> little pieces of computing history, along with the patch cords.
>> I'd like to have the manual so I can learn more about it.
>
> I have a couple of copies of the "Computer Lab Workbook".
>
> Do either of yours have a complete set of patch cords?
>
> Vince
They both have a number of different length patch cords with them, but
since I don't have the documentation for them, I'm not sure what
constitutes a complete set.
Ashley
Hi folks,
I know this is a bit off topic, but I also know that a few classiccmp'ers
have fairly extensive test equipment manual "collections", so here goes...
My Solartron 7150plus bench DMM packed up this morning - one minute I was
checking a measurement, the next it started hissing and smoke poured out of
the back. I can't see anything obviously burned, but I want to take some
measurements with my spare DMM to make sure everything's OK before I power it
back up.
Catch: I don't know what readings I should be getting at the various test
points. It does have a selftest function, but the error code list in the ops
manual just says "Refer to service manual" for most of them.
If anyone here has a copy of the 7150plus service manual, I'd be willing to
pay for a photocopy or scan of the manual. I've been quoted ?100+P&P+VAT for
a manual from Solartron, and none of the T&M manual dealers I've checked have
got any of the 7150plus documents - either ops or service.
Thanks.
--
Phil. | Acorn RiscPC600 SA220 64MB+6GB 100baseT
philpem at philpem.me.uk | Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxe R2 512MB+100GB
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Panasonic CF-25 Mk.2 Toughbook
... He's dead, Jim ... Kick him if you don't believe me
>
>Subject: Bit of CP/M trivia needed
> From: "Barry Watzman" <Watzman at neo.rr.com>
> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:30:35 -0400
> To: <cctech at classiccmp.org>
>
>
>I can't say for sure if Gary was the first to use the term BIOS, but it was
>being used by Gary in CP/M long before 1978 -- I'd say in late 1975,
>probably, and definitely by 1976. A friend bought a copy of CP/M in 1975 (I
>know it was 1975, because I was in Atlanta at the time with the friend (who
>happens to be Dale Heatherington, a partner in the modem firm of DC Hayes,
>for whom the "Heatherington patents" were named), and I moved from Atlanta
>to Charlotte in late 1975). In 1976, Imsai was offering CP/M version 1.3
>with the dual-Calcomp disk system. All of the documentation for all of
>these used the term BIOS, as did the source code for the BIOS' supplied with
>CP/M on disk (for the Intel development system). The BIOS resided on disk,
>as part of the system tracks, it was the last 7 sectors of the 2nd track
>(track 1).
I can say publicly in 1976 I'd heard it used by none other than. The event
was PCC'76 down on the NJ boardwalk.
Allison
>
>Subject: Re: CP/M 1.0? (was Re: Bit of CP/M trivia needed)
> From: shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 19:57:16 -0400
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>> Does anyone have a copy of CP/M 1.0 or know if such a version was ever
>> released? What about 1.1, 1.2, ... ?
>
>1.3 is the earliest I had. (And the original floppy is in Don Maslin's
>archives should they ever be recovered.) I think I remember Don saying
>it was the earliest he'd seen. He had lots of 2.2 of course for countless
>machines but only a handful of 1.4, 2.0, etc, (and most of those came from
>me too!)
>
>The ones I gave Don were official Digital Research distribution floppies,
>the oldest hand-labeled with a serial number.
>
>I am under the impression that earlier versions were not nearly so
>flexible as regards to customization to a wide variety of machines.
>
>Tim.
The earliest I've worked with was 1.3 and yes, before V2 it was a major task
to get it up and runnning on a new machine as the disk driver portion of the
code was not in the "bios". When I was at PCC'76 (in NJ) there was a
presentation on CP/M and the discussion was around moving it to new and
different hardware plus comments that V1.4 would be better in that the
basic terminal (CON:, LST,, PUN:, RDR:) would be an easily modified module.
I tried to move V1.4 to a Horizon and it was not a fun task nor was it
fully successful. It required many hours of dissassembly and plenty of
head scratching on how the disk was wired in.
Allison
