I dunno, I think shipping UPS to a business address versus a residential
address may have some effect, not sure.. I hate Fedex ground, they like to
deliver my company's packages to Lewan & Assosciates, an office product-type
company down the street from us. Gah!
Will J
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
From: Lawrence Walker <lgwalker(a)mts.net>
To: Mark Tapley <mtapley(a)swri.edu>; classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
<classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
I would be interested in seeing the mod documentation when you find it. I
keep hoping I'll find a cheap stash of V-20s to use on about 3 or 4 of my
boxes, altho they come up fairly reasonable on EPay from time to time.
Hows the Stylewriter project going ?
Lawrence
What do you call cheap. They are commonly available from JDR and other for
around $10 for the V20-10, and $9 for the -8{8mhz} version.
Allison
> -----Original Message-----
> From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org]
> Quothe Christopher Smith, from writings of Tue, Apr 16, 2002
> > because I just don't have the time to write a well-formatted reply,
> > and because it is not that offensive.
> Your point is? Let me take a guess: you feel that your time is more
> important than anyone else's time, disk space and bandwidth. As to it
I don't have any say over anyone else's time, but I certainly do my
best not to take much of it. If I can save them 20 minutes of work,
at the expense of reading a poorly formatted email, why not offer
the choice?
As for disk space, you'll note (I hope) that even the most terribly
formatted of my posts usually have all of the cruft clipped out of
them.
In addition you'll note that (yes, as a courtesy to anyone who might
be reading) I tend to strip out other peoples' formatting mistakes when
I reply too.
My point is that even though I usually do these things, and even though
I probably put more work into it than most other people due to this
piece of microsoft trash that I'm using as a mail client, I don't agree
that these rules ought to be enforced short of using social pressure
when it's appropriate. Did you really not get that from my last post?
(I'm not being condescending here, I'm really curious as to whether I
missed the mark in trying to lay that out...)
> not being offensive, let's just say that there are people in this
> world who don't bathe or use deodorants who don't think they're
> offensive to others.
Indeed, and I generally wouldn't associate with them for the health of
my own nose. If a poorly formatted post is that offensive to you, then
certainly you're welcome to not read it, and you will either gain time,
or lose one of a number of other things because of it. I won't say that
it's right or wrong.
> For many years most Usenet posts and e-mail did follow such rules,
Most still do, at least the ones that I read. Some don't, and of those,
most have no good reason not to -- I'll grant that. I still believe that
because exceptions to that rule exist, enforcement of the rule ought to
take that into account.
> then, the 'net became "popular;" the world wasn't perfect back then
> either, but most users of the 'net at that time were more likely to be
> more intelligent, or at least better educated, than the average
> person running loose in our society.
It's a shame that's not the case any more, certainly. So how about that
classic cmp UUCP network?
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> Quothe Christopher Smith, from writings of Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 10:48:39AM -0500:
> > (typical windows-using mindset, but let's not get into that :),
>
> Alas, it's illegal to properly fix such problems with an appropriate
> LART.
>
> > and I'm really trying to play by their rules. They have no
>
> Why play by their rules? The more who do, the worse the problem will
> become for all of us. Let the biz'droid lusers know that their
> software is broken and that they need to pay an appropriate
> professional to fix their minds as well.
Dang, RD, I was ready to quote your reply to Marvin with a
big uppercase DITTO MAN!, then you go and say something like
this...
Gotta respect ya, you sure don't mince words...
OTOH, when we bought those 25 Dells at Christmas, I drew
the line on new software; we got Win 2000, not Win XP, and
I tried like hell to get Office 2000 instead of Office XP,
even to the point of trying to get TPTB buy Office 2000 at
a local Marketpro show. But they like that one-stop shopping...
-dq
-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"]
Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits
On April 16, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:
> He didn't mention whether it was residential or commercial delivery;
> with commercial/business dleivery, you usually end up establishing
> a relationship with the delivery person; as a result, I think those
> guys are more carefully because they're going to have to look you
> in the eye.
>
> OTOH, residential delivery drivers just dump the package
> and run... so in that case, I might suspect a delivery person.
All residential deliveries...but as far as being on the receiving
end, I work from home and usually see the driver in person, and I
*always* establish a relationship with the drivers for all the
services that deliver packages to my house.
> But I've seen videotapes of UPS employees offloading planes,
> and with one guy "going long" you can tell how respectful
> they are with stuff. And they were being quite jolly about
> it, too...
Fear.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire "Mmmm. Big."
St. Petersburg, FL -Den
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net]
> Then I guess you will have to deal with people like myself
> reformatting
> your emails when replying. I personally can't stand to see an
> email thread
> with mostly proper quoting where someone replies at the top.
> Several email
> lists I'm on have an enforced rule that email must be quoted
> and threaded
> properly.
That's all good and everything, but I'm certain I'd have reservations
about subscribing to a mailing list that enforced it.
It so happens that it's quite a bit of extra effort for me to
re-format mail so that it looks acceptable, and should I not have
the time, yes, I will reply in a form closer to what this piece of
$(*& mail client tries to shove down my throat -- I do that both
because I just don't have the time to write a well-formatted reply,
and because it is not that offensive.
HTML is a different story, since most sane people, given a choice of
mail readers, would pick one that won't display it. On the other hand,
that can be stripped out automatically, leaving no trouble for the
people on either end of the conversation.
At any rate, removing a post, or a subscriber, because they put the
quotations in the wrong place is completely idiotic; this is done,
right, or how else would the rule be enforced?
> To date, all of the email etiquette information I've read
> states that a
> reply should always follow the quoted text, with the authors'
> names at the
> very top. Quotes should also be trimmed down, sometimes to just one
> author's text. Any extra or unnecessary quoted text (including sigs)
> should be removed to save bandwith.
Sure, in a perfect world, that's great, but I've seen some very
informative posts that don't follow these rules. Would you just dump
them? You're certainly not going to talk everybody into following all
of these rules all of the time.
> If the subject of a thread changes significantly, the subject
> line should
> be modified accordingly. A modified subject line should
> typically include
> _at least_ 1/3-1/2 of the original subject line text,
> prefixed by 'was',
> and surrounded by parentheses. The current subject line is a
> good example.
Indeed it should, but again, people forget, or just get lazy, and
that doesn't mean that the text of the message is any less valuable.
I suppose the point of this whole rant is that regardless of how good
these rules are, people will not follow all of them all of the time,
and there's really nothing you, or I, or anyone else, can, or should,
do about it. (There must be a rule about the number of ,,,s in a
single sentence.) That being said, and this being off topic (on top
of the fact that it's a problem that can't -- or shouldn't -- be
fixed), I'll shut up now.
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com]
> It's been many years since I ran NeXTSTEP, so this might be
> useless...but does "nu" modify the netinfo database? If not, well,
> that might be the problem.
Um... I have no idea. :)
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
In a message dated 4/16/2002 12:12:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
dquebbeman(a)acm.org writes:
> >
> > > From: Dave McGuire
> > >
> > > On April 16, John R. Keys Jr. wrote:
> > > > UPS delivered my Burroughs tape unit model BU4180 yesterday but it was
> > > > destroyed. They must have dropped it from a high place as this thing
> > > > weighs in at almost 80 pounds..
> > >
> > > I'm wondering how UPS manages to stay in business anymore. I've
> > > shipped about four things via UPS in the past year, and EVERY ONE OF
> > > THEM arrived damaged to some extent. WTF??
> >
> > Meanwhile, I personally have never had a problem with UPS, and with
> > the volume of packages coming & going in this building, I've never seen
> > anything bad either. Maybe just a moron for a driver?
>
> He didn't mention whether it was residential or commercial delivery;
> with commercial/business dleivery, you usually end up establishing
> a relationship with the delivery person; as a result, I think those
> guys are more carefully because they're going to have to look you
> in the eye.
>
> OTOH, residential delivery drivers just dump the package
> and run... so in that case, I might suspect a delivery person.
>
> But I've seen videotapes of UPS employees offloading planes,
> and with one guy "going long" you can tell how respectful
> they are with stuff. And they were being quite jolly about
> it, too...
>
> -dq
>
I ordered a NIC from a company and it shipped inside a bigger box shipped
UPS. One corner of the box was crushed to 50% of its original height.
Thankfully the NIC was far from damaged. I should have taken a picture of
that box just to show what UPS does. They don't give a *(&* about the
packages.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Chris Wren [mailto:jcwren@jcwren.com]
> But then, one thing I have noticed about the list,
> besides being an
> excellent wealth of information and intelligent people, is
> that some don't
> know when to let something end.
You can count me in that category. I wonder whether it's typical
of the kind of person you'd find on this list?
As a general observation, technical types tend to push things
further than most people appreciate in several cases.
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com]
>
> > So, why don't you use a real mail client...?
>
> ... because restrictions here are such that they don't mind me
> using their pipe for personal things in a limited manner, but
> they really hate for people to put any software on their system
> (typical windows-using mindset, but let's not get into that :),
> and I'm really trying to play by their rules. They have no
> real mail client, in fact their installations of lookout(!) are
> even more broken than usual.
My requirement for mail clients that would be used here at
work includes most importantly that they be MAPI-enabled
e-mail clients. If you have to ask why, the answer is: our
line of business application is a Windows-only application,
and we find that by sticking exclusively to Windows-based
applications, we achieve a high rate of integration between
all our systems, and more importantly, between all our lusers,
er, users. The shorter version of that ansnwer is: groupware.
I'd be interested in seeing what e-mail clients Dave and
others use *THAT ARE MAPI-ENABLED*. Not a criterium for
most of you perhaps, but it is for me.
-dq
-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"]
Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits
