test-drb February 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

175 participants
337 discussions

by Marion.Bates＠dartmouth.edu

Hey all, I was in one of my watering holes today and saw a Tandy 600 for sale. Looked fairly complete (power supply and a manual I think). Didn't check the price but this guy's usually pretty reasonable and he's got a sale going on electronics for the next couple days. Let me know if you're interested and I'll find out the price and snag it for ya. He also has a bunch of random video game controllers so if you need ANOTHER Atari joystick... ;) Also of possible interest: I have a Tandy 1000 with some software that needs a home. Don't know for sure that it works but odds are that it does. Welcome to it for the price of shipping or for trade -- anything Apple/Mac/Lisa/Commodore/Atari/videogame-related. I've decided that I need to focus a little with the collecting, and the Tandys don't really turn me on. Last item, an Apple ][e with Apple /// monitor. Both work. I don't need _another_ one and doubt anyone else does either...but yours for shipping. I live in NH. Thanks, -- MB

23 years, 5 months

More VAX troubles

by optimus＠canit.se

First of all, thanks to Allison and William Webb for the help with the IIGPX. I visited it today, and found a whole lot of QBUS cards in a box, a lot of which seemed like SCSI. I proceeded to replace the present card with the new one, but no success nevertheless. Then I decided to remove the RZ55 once again. That was a bad mistake, since the power connector was wedged very firmly into the drive, and when I tried to remove it, I removed the female connector on the drive as well. Luckily a friend soldered it back again for me, and I tried once again with the old card. No great success, but then we decided to try a lot of odd drive names (odd if you're a non-DEC person), and found out something about a DUA0. The drive span up and started to boot NetBSD, but things seemed to fail due to memory error. We then proceeded to reseat all the cards, and now it would boot fine. What an odd problem. Could it be that I hadn't seated the card firmly enough? The only problem now, is that the computer crashes whenever IP traffic goes beyond simple pinging or a few lines of telnet. The NIC is a DECNA (DEQNA?), and reseating it doesn't seem to solve anything. It is possible to ping it successfully, albeit with long response times. Running ftp on the VAX and downloading small files from other hosts quickly lands you in the debugger, though, with a system shutdown as next step, and the same thing happens when telnetting to it and running a few short commands. What could be wrong this time? Should the card or the OS be replaced, and how uncommon are these NICs? I could need another one for the plain MicroVAX II. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Age is a high price to pay for maturity.

23 years, 5 months

Sorry Folks

by milton＠sciti.com

> > > Subject: Re: Apple discs and doc offer, etc. > Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:25:04 -0800 > From: Milton Blackstone <milton(a)sciti.com> > > o: "S. Ring" <sring(a)uslink.net>, donm(a)cts.com, classiccmp@classiccmp/org > > References: <018e01c090cd$b3496140$9357ddcc@sring> > > Hello All: > I appreciate the help my frienn Maslin offered by advising you folks > that I had a bunch of Apple, Kaypro and early IBM stuff to d, > Dodispose of and I apologize to the 5 or 6 people who contacted me > requesting specific items they were interested in - but - I have all > of this stuff packed in 3 heavy cartons and can not re-open them to > check out your requests..or shlep them to a shipper. If there is > anyone in the San Diego area who would be interested in doing same > or want them for your archives - I would be pleased to make it > available for pick-up. > > Sorry if you were misled but the intention was honorable. > > Milton Blackstone > > "S. Ring" wrote: > >> I am interested in what you have for theApple II series machines. >> sring(a)uslink.net >

23 years, 5 months

Helk with a Kontron EPP-80 EPROM Burner

by grant＠AcceLight.com

I just acquired an EPROM burner/eraser by Kontron, model EPP-80, and although most of the functionality is intuitive enough, the use of the serial port is not. In particular, I want to download an image from a file on my PC to the Kontron's local memory. There's an IN and OUT key, and the OUT key _does_ output something to the serial port, but in addition to a start and end address, the command seems to take a format code (eg. 23 outputs the memory in ASCII Hex notation, in bytes, separated by commas). Anyone with knowledge/documentation on these units? I'd appreciate any help, especially access to some documentation. Please email me directly, as I'm not currently subscribed. Thanks. grant..

23 years, 5 months

Adopted -- PC Convertible 5140

by rcini＠optonline.net

Hello, all: Well, another successful minor adoption -- a PC Convertible 5140 with printer and monitor. It also appears to have a parallel port snap-on and a video board snap-on. It also seems that the battery is shorted, because the power supply goes into shutdown mode with the battery connected. The computer works without the battery installed. Does anyone have any info on the specs, like OS version, options, and the like? Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulator Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/

23 years, 5 months

Memorex 2374-81R

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Umm the only way Telex is related would be in the company name, e.g. Memorex-Telex... It's an IBM 3270-compatible controller, probably compatible with a 3274, guessing from the model number.. If you don't have an IBM minicomputer or mainframe, it really isn't useful for much of anything. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

23 years, 5 months

Toshiba 420 CDT help

by jpl15＠panix.com

One last post... anyone on The List have any detailed tech info on the Toshiba 420CDT laptop? I managed to fry the PSU in mine, and I'd like to see if it's worth buying a replacement [$45 +%65 duty +shipping]. If I just could get the actual output voltage/current that would be of help. Here in Southern India, most computer 'service' is module replacement. When things made from Unobtainium break, one warms up the soldering iron and 'does the needful' as they say... Cheerz and Thanks John

23 years, 5 months

New find : hacked and modified Hyperion computer

by claudew＠videotron.ca

Hi Well, it was $35 and someone had used a hack saw (or similar) to make a rough hole and install a 360K half height floppy in place of the original bottom one but I guess I could not pass it up for some odd reason. But what I found inside was a bit more interesting: Someone had made a small rack to fit 2 ISA 8 bit cards and managed to install a memory card, HD controller card, another fan and a MFM HD...so the machine now has 640k ram. Obviously not Hyperion installed (unless thats the way they worked) and kinda smart in the way the person used the minimal space in there to fit all of that... There is a small card that soldered to the expansion connector port of the hyperion (from the inside) I cant remember the name of the company now but it was not Hyperion...there is a ribbon cable that goes to over the monitor and the 2 isa slot are there... The original (320k IIRC) drives are missing, it gives a memory error on post (already fixed now bad ram chip...), CRT could be a bit more bright but has no burn (cranked up brightness preset it was at minimum - nice now) , but I am still glad I found one of these...they look a bit more common around here since they were built in Canada....seem quite rare everywhere else... Guy said he would give me money back if I could not fix it and decided to bring it back...within a week... If anybody has parts -front panel and original drive(s)?- I might be interested to bring this thing back to original shape or close to...If not, well I will probably fix the rough hole by making a nice platic plate to fix that terrrible hack job that defaces the poor thing...the hole that was made there is so rough its a shame.... Might put up pics on my web site of this hacked thing (inside and out) before I redo everything and make it nice...if anybody sounds interested... Claude Canuk Computer Collector

23 years, 5 months

Great HP Finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

With back down to the warehouse today and found a Intel 286 and 8088 CPU emulation units. I got both for very little money. Got a IBM 370 Plasma flat screen Type 3290-2 very cheap. On the HP side I got the following items: - 10277B General Purpose Probe Interface unit, with manuals - board wired for OPT 001 configuration - 1615A Logic Analyzer - 10066A HP-IB Probe Interface unit with doc's - A box of probes and cables, have not looked into it yet. Also got some Burroughs items. Three large boxes full of manuals and software. Also some early Mac stuff. Will get a fuller list later. John Keys

23 years, 5 months

Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>You need to get your timing straight, Allison. If you take 1976 as a timing >reference, there wasn't any sort of 'C' compiler on the horizon for CP/M or, Right C wasn't 1976 then again I never said it was. The assertion was that in 1976 you could do better. Could you? I asserted that using the 1976 design for many years later I did run C, pascal, Cbasic, Mbasic, multiplan and even dbase. This still runs counter to the idea that that the NS design could not do useful work. It's not me hacking the design, others did it with minimal effort on stock hardware. It makes little difference that those may not have existed in 1976 (very little did) it's the idea that the design did work and a 56k TPA was easily done. >for that matter, for NDOS. I don't think 5-1/4" disk drives were cheap >enough for NorthStar in '76 either. There weren't many of them around. In November 1976, $599, Mastercharge Card, LI Computer in Manhassett Li. For that I got a MDS-A controller, 1 SA400 and their DOS and BASIC. At that time another SA400 was about 400$ and 8" drive was $699 plus the then typical 8" drive required a bigger more complex power supply. The NS Horizon machine (complete S100 crate) was later. I did over the years run every thing under the CP/M sun on it. >fact, I don't think anybody I knew at the time had a CP/M version beyond >1.4. The NorthStar stuff was pretty common by late '77, but the >compiler-generated software I'm referring to was released in '77-'78. Not news to me. >However, much more basic is the absolute fact that you can't have a 56K TPA >if the available addressable memory space below the FDC is limited to 56K >because the FDC sits there. Even if the BIOS were of zero length, the BDOS >isn't, and even if the BDOS were of zero length as well, you'd still have to >allow for the bottom 256 bytes, which don't figure into the TPA. The FDC resides at 0xE800!!!!! Faulty math! 64k minus the 4k (f000h) is 60k and then minus 2k (e800 to efff) is 58k. Single density bios of 2k is was no big deal. so with 8k in use or unavailable your down to 56k... or is 64-8 not 56k? >You're right about the cost of memory in 1976, and, in fact, I'd say it cost >quite a bit more than what you suggest in '76, since the 4116's cost about >$80 per chip in '76. Getting eight of them wasn't easy either since they >weren't in full production until late '77. I know I'm right, I was there buying it. I had 56k of seals and PT static (2102) 8kx8 ram cards in the crate. My first 64k dynamic card was 1980 paid $199 for the board sans ram (I had a source). >Several competitors did! Now, you picked this 1976 timeline, so please >stick to it! What you did in '78 isn't relevant because it was a wholly >different world then. The 76 timeline is the design date of the FDC. The point to repeat it was can you using 1976 technology do better than 600$ for a minifloppy SYSTEM with dos and basic? No it was I was doing by 1978 based on my 1976 hardware. >The TRS-80 Model 1 came out in late '77 didn't it? First significant quantities were september 1977. >> in 48k. The only one that wanted a larger TPA then 48k was SMALLC V2 >> compiler as the optimizer wanted more space. >> >SmallC didn't exist then ... The date is not important as I ran it later on the same hardware. Your trying to weasel your way to a different place. You have asserted that NS MDS-A system was a dog. I assert your full of faulty data and that by 1976 hardware standards it was it was a good design that would held up well for many years. By then NS* had replaced it with a double density version that interoperated with older version well yet extended the useable storage. I'd also assert that the ICOM FDOS system I have (same timeframe) using the venerable 1771 was a true dog as it was slow, with rom at B800 and even less software (barely a dos). It was also only good for 71kb of storage on a SA400. The NS MDS-A did much better at 82k of space on the same drive. Anyhow I still have he ICOM junker in the collection to remind me of a real dog. >> >in '81, 64K of 4116's cost much less than $100. Mostly useless as they were loose parts and not a board or kit. I can pull down catalogs, Byte, Interface age and all for prices. S100 cards complete, of reliable design were not $100 for 64k until the sell out days of the mid to late 80s. >> Psystem with Pascal for $50 (bargan in my eyes). >> >UCSD Pascal, while a decent system, wouldn't run standard CP/M applications. Unimportant. At the time it represented a non CP/M system and a real HLL for peanuts that did run on small hardware. At the time that was pretty radical. Also there was a version of Psystem that ram using CP/M (not NS*). >The NorthStar controllers I saw were all shipped at 0xE000 with a boot rom >that didn't find them anywhere else. Nope that was nonstandard then. Standard was E800h I've never seen one even nonstandard that low most of the custom roms version were F000 or F800. I'd attribute that to error or bad memory. >That's not exactly what I'm saying, but, in 1976, you couldn't run >TurboPascal because it didn't exist, nor did BDS-C. Well certainly your opinion. Like I said earlier I ran them when they became available on that old useless, as you say, hardware with a real 56k TPA I ram them. I STILL RUN IT, I ahve the docs, I dont have to rely on memory >That's not relevant, >though, because those compilers and interpreters don't represent useful >work. Again your opinion. For many those did represent useful tools for building business apps. >People who bought a computer in 1976 generally justified it on the basis >that they would use it to perform useful work. Programming was overhead to >everyone except the .001% of the folks out there who were engaged in >creating software. Save for in 1976 there was very little software at the applications level. so many apps were home grown. What year was Visicalc introduced? >Useful work involved running Word Processing, Accounting, Payroll, and >Inventory Control software, Order Entry, printing reports, checks, billing, >cost tracking, shipping label/mailing list processing, etc. That sort of >work required you have some memory available since you had to sort and >search quite a bit. I know, it's how I make a living. I was using my altair to run a daprtment payroll and all back then. It's where my appreciation for reliable hardware came from. >> Prior to about 1982 that was not only not an issue it was irrelevent. >> Back in that era running softsector was often not much help as >> everyone ran something different format wise. >> >How about an example, referenced to your 1976 timeline? I don't believe I >even saw a 5-1/4" drive until '77. They were probably out there, but not of >any particular interest. On the other hand, 8" drives, priced around $350, >were everywhere, and controllers that used them were not expensive. They were of no interest as they were bare. Without a controller to make it work it was not an attraction. However NS*, ICOM, and a few others were by were by fall of 1976 selling product FDC and Drives. Then again finding a 8" drive in 1976 for $350 would ahve been a windfall and non of my Bytes or old catalogs support it. >> support. >> >I don't see how you did that when the FDC lived at 0xE000. Simple, it doesnt. It's standard address, E800h. >> would have been more convenient but E800 was not a significant handicap. >> Actually if you wanted to burn your own roms it was easy to do. >> >That certainly wasn't an option in 1976. Yes it was. The parts used were not mask parts, they are AIM and fuse link low density stuff. The most complex part on the board was a 256x4 (74S287) prom. The address was set by a one 74S287 prom as an address decoder. >> An SA801 and controller was easily $400 more expensive in late 76! >> >That's why you built the Northstar in '78. Try sticking with your timeline. >You picked it after all ... I bought the MDS-A and SA400 in 76!, NS* Z80 board in march 1977. I used it in the flaky Altair till the NS* Horizon chassis was available to me '78. Your trying to duck out of the issue. >> as big as the S100 crate above it. I also have a HZ-207 box with two 1/2 >> height 8" 2sided DC motor drives and it's still big and weighs a ton. >> >My Integrand box has the two drives in it, together with the carcdage and >power supply. Most of the noise is from the fans. I gave one of those away. The AC motors of the SA801s tend to be loud too. >What you did or were able to do in '78 had no effect on what was going on in >'76, yet you keep making these forward references. The fact that the N* What I did with the 1976 reference was to say this... could you do a better fdc design using 1976 technology then they did. After that you adotped the date to justify anything that doesnt suit your assertion of facts that have no support. I have the hardware multiple examples plus original docs and my notebooks to fall on. Oh yes, I'm hardcore engineer. That translates too if you didn't write it down it never existed. So as a result even my hobby hacking is documented in scores of quad ruled notbooks. What I was doing in 1978 was using 1976 hardware, it is the point. Your trying to find a way to justify your arguement that something was not good at the time because you didn't understand it or didn't bother to. Your comment that in the early 80s the Boy Scouts couldnt use them runs counter to my comment that in that exact same time frame I did {as did others} run them with loads of heavy apps. >couldn't use them because they were shipped in an inadequate configuration >in '76. If you'll draw yourself a timeline of the various events that are >involved here, you'll see why the 56K memory map was inadequate for the >"serious" business software of the mid-late 70's. That was ultimately fixed >with a compiler release that suppported smaller MID 70s is 1975, Altair (introduction was january 1975 Pop tronics) was still very new and disks were limited to the PDP-8 and PDP-11 folks that were paying lots more than Altair prices. As to 56k not being enough in the 70s... even the average PDP-11 then was huge at 128k. Most people I know were quite happy to have 56k in the late 70s on any hardware. What was truely important to business users was adaquate relaible mass storage and floppies were barely it. Serious users wanted and paid dearly for hard disks. Now if you wanted to be pandantic in 1976 you likely paid $295 (that would be mid year) per 8k of ram, 56k represented ~$2100!!! late 70s, say 1978-79 was when the microcomputer folks were discovering disks and trying to make them work for a living. Floppies were seen as important tot his but any business user will tellyou that a real hard disk was the killer hardware. Just like Visicalc was a killer app. Allison

23 years, 5 months

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test-drb February 2001