test-drb December 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

243 participants
1096 discussions

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > On December 4, Tony Eros wrote: > > Last month someone had an Industrial-8 two rack system with > TU56, RK05, > > high-speed paper tape reader/punch listed on eBay. $1000 > was evidently not > > enough, because now he appears to be selling off the bits. There's > > currently a listing for "PDP 8 Industrial DEC chassis and > front panel" with > > about three days to go. > > Kind of a bummer. > Lynch mob time. Exactly what I was thinking. That really offends me. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

22 years, 10 months

Bubble sorts have their place (was: FLUKE?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > And I've seen bubble sorts used when they were inappropriate, or worse > yet, a bubble sort going from left to right, when right to > left was called > for - that creates the worst case scenario that gives a > bubble sort its > bad reputation. Back to the description of the bubble sort that Wirth had in his book (the book is "algorighms + data structures = programs," for the curious), he suggests modifications to a bubble sort: Always remember the position of the last switch that you've made. You can start/end here next time. (A similar thing was mentioned in a previous mail by somebody) Alternate the order of the sort going right-to-left one pass and left-to-right the next. That takes advantage of the fact that a number that's incredibly far out of place will tend to move further if you're sorting towards its proper place. (In other words, it's as you say, but assuming that we don't know the order of the data, so the sort can be generic and still be more efficient) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

22 years, 10 months

PDP-8/E bulbs

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 2, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm making progress on the PDP-8/E I got this last week. The powersupply > checks out once the Front Panel is plugged in, and thanks to all the spare > lightbulbs I've got all the burnt out bulbs replaced. Unfortunatly I'm now > down to two spares which my -8/m could probably use, the -8/e had nearly > half it's bulbs out. This brings up the question, how hard is it to get > replacement bulbs? I thought all 8/M systems had LED front panels. At least every one I've seen has. Not sure where to find replacements. Newark Electronics has a nice (but expensive) selection of lamps. Also you might want to try Gilway Technical Lamp...if you can't find them online, let me know and I'll dig up a catalog. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

22 years, 10 months

FLUKE?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > You're supposed to stop one position shorter each time, > because by the end > of the sweep, the largest (or smallest, depending on which > way you do the > comparison-and-swap) number has fallen to the bottom (end) of > the array. > It makes a big difference to the time it takes. You're right. It would. Wirth had a better example in one of his books, but I didn't want to type it all in. ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

22 years, 10 months

History of Computing exam question

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Iggy Drougge [mailto:optimus@canit.se] > But who could by a VAX? And why one terminal only? The VAX > wasn't a personal > computer by any means. > Not that just anyone could buy an IBM PC in '81, but chances > were, your > employer could. Well, depending on your employer they might afford a VAX too. I used one terminal as an example of a way to give your VAX a nice keyboard and display. I didn't mean it to be an exhaustive configuration. > OTOH, the TI99's processor had the same addressing problems > as the 8-bitters, > 15-bit addressing with a 16-bit word orientation led to the > same addressable > space as the 6502 and Z80 micros. Arithmetically, the TI99 > was a sixteen- > bitter, but not in the common definition of sixteen bits used from the > eighties and onwards. AFAIR the 8088 was also very "8-bit" :) I suppose it's all in the marketing, though. > The PC was AFAIK released in '81. > I wouldn't define the 68000 as a 32-bitter, only as a more > elegant sixteen- > bitter. Well, we certainly agree on the "more elegant" part. ;) > >several 32-bit systems on the market by 1984 or so (though, > my personal > >favorite was done in '87 with the Acorn Archimedes). > None were IBM, though, and none could be easily cloned. Well, no, none were IBM. (Honestly, IBM has only done a few things I like -- all of them being more expensive than I could ever hope to afford new. :) As for being easily cloned, I suppose you mean that Compaq must have already done the reverse engineering work? ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

22 years, 10 months

VERY LONG: Latest S-100 Haul

by spedraja＠ono.com

>Hello all, Hi ! >Thanks to a VERY generous man, located about an hour's drive from me, I have >a boatload of CompuPro S-100 stuff, 8" floppy drives, manuals, software, Very generous, I must say :-) >I am more than willing to copy floppies or manuals, no charge but postage (and you >supply the 8" media, as I am VERY short of blanks). The only caveat is that >it may take me a long time to do it, mainly becuase I'm not very organized >:-) I'm interested in the specific Digital Research Products documentation (and software, but less over this). It's possible I begin to manipulate the MP/M adn CP/NET sources to put it to work under Yaze. I must say you that I'd love to see all this manuals scanned and put together in some place dedicated to the CP/M stuff. If you can do it in a future then you're the better deposit. If you can't do it and can send it to me or another one who could scan it, it can be good too. Thanks and Greetings Sergio

22 years, 10 months

History of Computing exam question

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Hans asked: >List the 20 to 30 systems you would display and briefly explain the >reason for choosing each. Fun question. Don't have time to really organize, but here's parts of my list: Napier's Bones digital solution for one class of computing problem Slide Rule (almost any) Analog computation, and portable computing power. Application of a fairly disjoint set of technologies to a very focussed solution that met a serious need in engineering Abacus (almost any) As with the slide rule, but now a discrete digital technology. Babbage's Engine ...or plans, if it couldn't be found or made a replica of. Large-scale compute power, digital technology with the greatest flexibility so far Bowditch's "American Practical Navigator" and a sextant Illustration of the market drive for computing power, and the tabular approach to meeting heavy-duty geometrical calculation problems. (Could just as well be the old Admiralty tables, I'm just biased in favor of Bowditch 'cause I'm American.) Zuse-1 (fill in the blank) Enigma machine, and Bomb (a matched pair) *serious* market drive -> compute power response for a single application Eniac (fill in the blank) IBM 360 (fill in the blank) PDP-11/xx Pick a good one, first minicomputer/lab computer. Brought compute power into a lot of lower-cost applications. Dec Rainbow typifies both MS-DOS and CP-M machines. somewhat breakthrough OS flexibility, (MS-DOS, CP/M, CCP/M, Venix, all of which were preexisting). Mac 128k GUI OS for the masses, origin of "friendly" computers (first computer to *smile* at me). VAX - any Illustration of successful extension of an existing architecture to more bits (twice as many) Alpha - any As VAX, but to 64 bits/RISC Cray 1 Vector supercomputer, electromechanical design breakthrough Newton PDA origin. Perq microprogramming, early workstation, heck Tony likes it so it must be good... F-14 flight computer integrated circuit microprocessor first application (?) NeXT Cube (original) OO system, sizeable leap in developer environment quality Sun Sparc-5 Desktop workstation, power/price/size breakthrough Sony Vaio or Mac Titanium Laptops get to practical size and retain serious power. DVD player (any) or CD player market driver for serious compute power cheap Sony PSX as above, including graphics Jet engine FADEC unit (any) compute power seriously ruggedized and making a pilot's life easier (livable). I'm sure I've left out a lot, apologies to all concerned. - Mark

22 years, 10 months

More E-Bay Insanity?

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

Yes, but this one's being sold as "unopened." The seller thinks it has value to (or that he can make a bundle from) a _collector_ rather than a _user_. If anyone buys it, I doubt that they will ever open the package. It is madness, but (as has been said many times before) the value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it. -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:12 PM To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: More E-Bay Insanity? <snip> ... ok, I understand this perfectly (believe me!) but this is a head cleaning kit, and anyone who's still got a 5.25" disk likely could take it apart and clean the head without the kit. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

22 years, 10 months

VERY LONG: Latest S-100 Haul

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all, Thanks to a VERY generous man, located about an hour's drive from me, I have a boatload of CompuPro S-100 stuff, 8" floppy drives, manuals, software, etc. The list is long, and I debated posting it here, or linking to a web page. In the end, I decided to post it here because I wanted it to be in the archives in case anyone was looking for any of this stuff. I am more than willing to copy floppies or manuals, no charge but postage (and you supply the 8" media, as I am VERY short of blanks). The only caveat is that it may take me a long time to do it, mainly becuase I'm not very organized :-) Before the list, there were also two Osborne 1 computers, one with a dead internal monitor (but works from external monitor), and one fully functional, with the double-density upgrade. Also, manuals and full sets of original disks for each. Without further ado, here's the list: CompuPro chassis, 21-slot motherboard - 1 Full CompuPro RAM22 board - 1 Full CompuPro RAM22 board - 1 Full CompuPro RAM21 board - 1 Full CompuPro RAM16 board - 1 Full CompuPro RAM17 board - 1 Macrotech Dual Processor board -- 80286 and Z80H - 1 CompuPro System Support 1 - 1 CompuPro DISK3 Hard Drive controller - 1 CompuPro Interfacer 4 - 1 CompuPro DISK1A Floppy Drive Controller CompuPro System 8/16 Chassis, 20-slot motherboard - 1 Full CompuPro RAM22 board - 1 CompuPro MDRIVE/H 512K/2 MEG disk emulator board - 1 CompuPro CPU68K board - 1 CompuPro System Support 1 board - 1 CompuPro Interfacer 4 board - 1 CompuPro DISK1 Floppy Controller Board Three dual 8" drive units (one CompuPro, two no-name) -- The CompuPro unit has two QumeTrak drives (242, I think -- full height 8"), one of the no-names has two Shugart 801 drives (single-sided only, I think), and the other no-name also has two QumeTrak drives. Unfortunately, the power supply in the no-name QumeTrak drive box literally had an LM723CN explode, breaking the chip in half, melting the socket, and fusing two pins to the socket. Cheap enough for a new chip, but time to put in a new socket, and figure out if something else has gone bad... One dual 5.25" floppy and 5.25" 40MB hard drive unit Additional S-100 cards: - Mullen Computer Products bus tracer board - CompuPro Interfacer 4 w/cable - Solid State Music PB1 2708/2716 EPROM Programmer - CompuPro DISK1 Floppy Controller - Jade Double D Floppy Disk Controller - Quantronics MM8 8K memory board, 64 2102 chips - Performics 256KB RAM card - CompuPro CPU-Z - Jade JG-Z80 Rev. C CPU board (Z80A) - Qty. 2 CompuPro CPU 8085/88 - Ackerman Digital Systems PROMBlaster II - Franklin Electric I/O Interface - Vector Electronics Interfacer II - Jade Parallel Serial I/O Board - Data Technology Corporation DTC 10-1 - Tarbell Cassette Interface, Rev. D Model 1001 - CompuPro System Support I - CompuPro RAM17 - ExpandoRAM Rev. E Original Software, 8" Floppies - CompuPro CP/M 8-16, version 1.1R - CompuPro CDOS 8-16, 4.1D-2, also labelled by CCT, version 2.0b - CompuPro DR Net, version 1.1A - CompuPro AMCALL/TIP Master, version 2.68/2.40 - CompuPro CP/M-80, version 2.2N - CompuPro CP/M-80, version 2.2LD - CompuPro CP/M-80, MDRIVE System Master, version 2.2LM - CompuPro CP/M-86, version 1.1PA - Jade CP/M version 2.2, for Double D controller card - CP/M-68K, version 1.0, labelled by Westico Software Express Service - SuperSoft C compiler (no version, copyright 1981) - CompuPro Assembler and tools 86 version 1.0 - CompuPro CP/M-68K version 1.1 - Digital Research C compiler for CP/M-86, version 1.11 - Term 3 by Echelon - Z-COM by Echelon - Discat by Echelon - PKey and I/O Recorder by Echelon - B/Printer by Echelon 20-30 Blank 8" media, some 1-sided, some 2-sided Manuals (* = original, no * = photocopy) - Code Works Small C for CP/M version n, April 1, 1981 * - BDS C version 1.4 - Jade Double D Software Manual - IMSAI 8080 Self-Contained System Operating System -- User manual and source code listings - Processor Technology Software Package #1 source listing - Qty. 3 CompuPro Interfacer 4 * (w/ schematic) - Digital Research CP/M 2 docs * - BDS C Version 1.5 * - ADS Promblaster II / Promwriter 4.0 * (w/ schematic) - CompuPro CP/M 68K Technical Manual and Installation Procedures * - Qty. 3 CompuPro RAM22 Technical Manual (w/ schematic) * - CompuPro System Enclosure and Motherboards Technical Manual * (w/ stickers and schematics) - Qty. 2 CompuPro DISK1 Technical Manual w/ schematics * - Qty. 2 CompuPro System Support 1 User Manual * (w/ schematics) - ViaSyn MDrive/H Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CCT Brochures, Price Lists - 4 issues of C-Pro newsletter, volume 2, issues 1-4, 1985 * - Tarbell BASIC I/O System - cassette version, version 12.12 listing - Tarbell Cassette BASIC, version 12.14 listing - CompuPro System 816A Standard Switch Settings and Cable Connections - CompuPro CP/M-80 2.2 Technical Manual and Installation Procedures - Digital Research CP/M-86 Release Notes, version 1.1 * - CompuPro System Support 1 Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro CPU-Z User Manual * (w/ schematics) - Qty. 2 ViaSyn/CompuPro CPU 8085/88 Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - Qty. 2 CompuPro RAM17 Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro DISK1A Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro System 8/16 Enclosure and Motherboards Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro Concurrent DOS 8-16 Installation and Customization Guide * (marked "Advance Copy") - CCT Concurrent DOS 8-16 CMX XIOS User Guide * - Macrotech MI-286 Dual Processor (80286/Z80H) Reference Manual * (w/ schematics) - Vector Electronic Interfacer II Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro FORTH Technical Manual * - Performics SRAM 128/258 User's Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro CPU-68K Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro RAM16 Technical Manual * (w/schematics) - CompuPro RAM21 Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - Franklin Electric I/O Serial Parallel Assembly and Test Instructions * - Data Technology Corp. DTC-10-1 Preliminary Specification (w/ schematics) - CompuPro CP/M 80 2.2 Hard Disk Installation Guide * - CompuPro MDrive Installation Manual * - CompuPro CP/M 8-16 Technical Manual and Installation Procedures * - CompuPro CP/M-86 Technical Manual and Installation Procedures * - QumeTrak 842 8" Floppy Maintenance Manual - Jade Double D Floppy Controller Manual * (w/ schematics) - Qume DataTrack 8 Maintenance Manual - Shugart 800/801 OEM Manual - PSS Model MM8 8K RAM System Manual - Solid State Music PB1 EPROM Programmer Board * (w/ schematcs) - SD Systems ExpandoRAM Operations Manual * (w/ schematics) - Tarbell Cassette Interface (w/ schematics) - Mullen Computer Products TB4 * (w/ schematics) S-100 test/probe board - Jade Serial Parallel Interrupt Controller * (w/ schematics) - Jade "The Big Z" (Z80 CPU board) * (w/ schematcs + monitor) - CompuPro TMXBIOS listings * - CompuPro DISK3 (ST506) Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro AMCALL and MCALL-II (comm prog.) Operations Manual * - CompuPro AMCALL and AMCALLN (supplement to above) * - Qty. 2 CompuPro CP/M 2.2 Technical Manual and Installation Procedures * - Qty. 2 CompuPro CP/M-86 Technical Manual and Installation Procedures * - Soroc IQ120 terminal Specifications and Operating Procedures * - Digital Research/CompuPro CP/M 2.2 User Reference Manual * (1 from 1982, 1 from 1978) - Qty. 2 Digital Research CP/M-86 System Guide * - Qty. 2 Digital Research CP/M-86 User's Guide * - Qty. 2 Digital Research CP/M-86 Programmer's Guide * - CompuPro Concurrent DOS 8-16 User's Guide * - Digital Research Concurrent CP/M User's Guide * - Digital Research Concurrent CP/M System Guide * - Digital Research Concurrent CP/M Programmer's Reference Guide * - Digital Research Concurrent CP/M-86 Programmer's Utilities Guide * - Lattice C Compiler v2.15A For 8086/8088 * - Digital Research DR Assembler Plus Tools for CP/M-86 * - Digital Research C Language for CP/M-86 * - Digital Research CBASIC Compiler for CP/M-68K * - Digital Research CP/M-68K User/System/Programmer Guides * - Digital Research C Compiler guide for CP/M-68K * - Supersoft Version 1.2 C Compiler for CP/M-80 * - DBase II User Manual - DBase II Reference - Microshell 1.2 User Manual - CP/M 2.2 Patches and Application notes from Digital Research - PC-Pro User's Guide - Wordstar 3.0 Customization Notes - Wordstar 3.0 General Information Manual - Wordstar 3.0 Installation Manual - Wordstar 3.0 Reference - Supersort 1.6 Operator's Handbook and Programmer's Guide - Datastar 1.1 User's Guide - CBASIC Version 2 Language Manual - The Zapple Monitor Version 1.1 - Word-Master 1.07 User Manual - SpellGuard User Manual - MAC -- Cal Poly Macro Assembler Manual * - Tarbell BASIC Manual - Calcstar 1.0 User's Manual - BSTAM Version 4.6 User Manual - CB-80 Languare Release Notes, and Reference Manual - Cal Poly/Link-80/RMAC/Library User's Guide - SID User's Guide - Microsoft MBASIC Compiler User's Manual - Microsoft BASIC-80 Reference Manual - Microsoft Utility Software User Manual (MACRO-80/LINK-80/CREF-80/LIB-80) - Island Cybernetics Information Retreival System v2.07 User's Manual - CP/M 3.0 System/Programmer/User Guides - CP/NET User's Guide - MP/M-II System/User/Programmer Guide Non-Original Disks (all 8", mixed 1S/2S, mixed densities) - Concurrent DOS 3.1D - Concurrent DOS 4.1D - CompuPro CP/M 8-16 Implementation Files - CompuPro CP/M 2.2N - Godbout CP/M 8-16 1.1PD - CompuPro CP/M 8-16 1.1R - MP/M-II 2.1 - MP/M-II 8-16 - MP/M Gen - BDS C 1.46 - Datastar - Wordstar - Spellguard - Wizard C 2.1D - Aztec C 3.2 - Lattice C 2.15 - DRI Assembler/Tools for CP/M-86 - 68K Cross-assembler - CB80 1.3 - CBASIC 2.38 - Fortran 80 - Turbo Pascal for CP/M-86 - SuperSort - DBase II - Selector III - Datastar 1.4 - IRS Infomaster - BSTAM (telecomm program) - BDS C 1.45 - Word-Master - Random House Thesaurus - Wordstar-86 - Small C 1.1 - Calcstar 1.2 - Microsoft BASIC v.4.5, 4.51, 5.1, 5.2 - CP/NET Version 1.0 Whew! That's all folks.... Rich B.

22 years, 10 months

Scrapping hardware to get it off the books (RE: Is it a Lisa or Mac XL?!)

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Should I even bother going back and asking to see the stuff >in the yard? Or, has this firm agreed not to resell anything >(I'm kinda assuming that what's true for this guy is industry >standard). I don't know the laws, but why shouldn't a scapper be allowed to sell the stuff in working condition? They are in the scrap business, and I would think once it is theirs, they should be allowed to sell it however they want (pulverize and sell as land fill, or repair and sell as working). Is there some law against selling the stuff in working condition? -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

22 years, 10 months

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test-drb December 2001