Thanks for the WW reference. I must admit I had got the PE Digical
calculator confused with another WW article also by B.Crank. Can't
remember the title but it was a very simple logic analyzer using
a scope as a hex display. I remember it used Ferranti DTL chips.
Also remember reading the PE Digical calculator articles - I can still
picture the calculator - a four function desk top machine full of TTL !
>Ok, I think it's my turn to ask the obligatory
New Jersey... but I am retracting my offer on the 5160... I thought I
already had an XT, but it turns out I have PCs and ATs, but no XTs, so
after a brief scare when someone said they wanted it last night (turns
out they really want an AT, so I am trying to arrange to give them one of
mine), I am officially retracting the offer of the 5160 so I can round
out my collection.
The Intel branded 386 is still up for grabs. Along with the IBM
ProPrinter and the Epson cut sheet printer thingy... and some 5.25 HD and
DD drives. (Drives are known good, but I still haven't tested the
Speaking of chip testers has anyone come across the Antron company and their
testing equipment? Antron are still going and still selling test kit to the
likes of Compaq, but since they didn't reply to my email I'm assuming they
had no old documentation.
Basically the MST300 is a 386 based PC with 2 extra ISA cards that interface
with the testing 'pods'. I've got pods for the 8086, 80286, 80386SX and DX,
Moto 68K and I'm still not sure what they were supposed to be testing!
I'll post pix on Binary Dinosaurs when I get 'em taken :)
Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd
w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum)
> I found two large white Intel boxs yesterday. They're not labeled but I
> think they're the old Intel ICE boxs. There's also two pods with them, one
> is for a iAPX 186 an the other is for an iAPX 286 (80186 CPU and 80286 CPU
> for the ones of you that don't speak Intel).
This brings up an interesting piece of trivia...
Has anyone ever seen one of the prototype iAPX386 chips?
The iAPX386 was what would have been sold as the 80386, but the
prelim documents I've got don't describe the virtual 8086 mode
that was present in the shipped 80386 chips.
The name change happened during the lawsuit with AMD. Under a
technology swap agreement, Intel should have forwarded the info
on the 386 to AMD. But ultimately, AMD had to clean-room engineer
their 386 clone chip. I always thought that Intel changed the
name from the iAPX line to what was actually the part number
(i.e. the iAPX286 had the part number 80286), and also made
slight changes to the feature set, just for the purpose of
being able to say to AMD "well, we would give you the iAPX386,
but we decided not to produce it."
I've been following all of the great Lisa discussion. People get very messed
up with the "what's a Lisa 2 and what's a Mac XL" criteria. If the machine in
question has not been adulterated with a ROM upgrade or screen modification,
etc., it can run the Lisa OS - any Lisa 2 or Mac XL. All Mac XLs are Lisa 2s,
Apple merely renamed them in 1985. The "plain" Lisa 2 is the same as the Lisa
2/5, just with no external 5 mb Profile hard drive. It was generally not sold
without a hard drive, as it was basically useless without one.
Here's the breakdown on differences per the Lisa/Macintosh XL Do-it-yourself
Lisa 2: The Lisa 2 has one 3.5-inch 400K disk drive, different disk drive
controller circuitry, and a redesigned front panel to accommodate the single
3.5-inch drive opening. A 400K floppy controller, labeled the "Lisa Lite
Adapter," is mounted inside the disk drive cage. The System I/0 board is
socketed for an AMD 9512 arithmetic processor. It has nickel-cadmium battery
backup for the real time clock. One 512K memory board is standard. The mother
board has a mouse connector, two serial connectors, and an external parallel
connector. The power supply is rated 1.2 A.
Lisa 2/10: The Lisa 2/10 has a completely different motherboard. The mouse
connector is different. There's no external parallel connector on the back of
the computer. Instead, there's an internal parallel connector and a 10MB
internal I hard drive. An interrupt switch has been added. The system I/0
board is also different. There's no socket for the AMD 9512 coprocessor.
There's no nickel-cadmium battery backup for the real time clock. The disk
drive controller is different. An extra chip on the 1/0 board replaces the
Lisa Lite Adapter which was formerly located in the drive cage. The disk
drive cabling is different. The wiring harness is different. The power supply
is different. One megabyte of RAM is standard. If you have Lisa OS disks, a
10MB internal hard drive, no Lisa Lite card, no external parallel connector,
and a 1.8-A 110/220V power supply, yours is at least a Lisa 2/10.
Macintosh XL: The Macintosh XL is exactly the same as a Lisa 2/10. Only the
sticker on the box, the operating system, and the instruction manuals are
different. Instead of Lisa OS, the bundled OS is Macintosh System software
and MacWorks XL, a Lisa program which allows 64K Macintosh ROM emulation. If
you have MacWorks XL instead of Lisa OS disks, a 10MB internal hard drive, no
Lisa Lite card, and a 1.8-A power supply, yours is probably a MacintoshXL.
A lot of people confuse the hardware differences as coming about due to the
renaming, but this was not the case. When Sun Remarketing in Logan, Utah
bought up the bulk of remaining "Mac XLs" from Apple they slowly began
tweaking them to make them more Mac-like. My first Lisa which I bought from
them in December 1989 for $1095 had started life as a Lisa 2/5. Sun
Remarketing had installed the screen modification kit (giving it square
pixels like a Mac instead of it's native rectangular ones), Mac Plus 128k
ROMs to support the installed 800k drive and a Sun Remarketing installed
internal 20 mb hard drive. The hard drive was interesting because it was
installed internally, yet it's cable extended under the rear cage cover to
attach to the external parallel port. Ok, ok, I go on and on. Interesting
stuff eh? Best,
Classic Computing Press
Tony Duell wrote:
>  The PE Digical may be one of the first hobbyist calculators
> (published 1972, all built from TTL chips), but it wasn't programmable.
> Stick it on the list if you like.
Sorry no details, but there was a similar design in Wireless World,
circa 1968/9 - built from DTL I think.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:email@example.com]
> Here's my list. It's a bit disorganised, and doubtless some of the
> machines shouldn't really be there, but anyway. I am going to
Ok, one more for me:
Symbolics lisp machine (whatever model...)
Incredibly advanced for the time... maybe even for today.
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
I found two large white Intel boxs yesterday. They're not labeled but I
think they're the old Intel ICE boxs. There's also two pods with them, one
is for a iAPX 186 an the other is for an iAPX 286 (80186 CPU and 80286 CPU
for the ones of you that don't speak Intel). The boxs are about 18" wide x
24" deep x 12" high. They look complete and intact. I'm sure the owner has
no idea what they are and would sell them cheap ($20?-$40?). They're
located on the east side of Orlando. If anyone wants them contqct me and
I'll point you to them. But I DO NOT have the room to store them or the
time to ship them. I've been giving and throwing away my own stuff due to
lack of room so don't ask me to yours. If you want them you'll have to come
get them or make arrnagements for someone else to store/ship them to you.
In a message dated 11/29/01 2:39:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> My only concern is that I might get asked "are you the guy in
> the red Audi who was diggint through my stuff?"
I don't think you have to worry about a few Apples. They are more plastic
than scrap. Apple II breakage is worth about 6 cents per pound
In one warehouse we rented in NW Portland over a decade ago we used to roll
out pallets of valueless stuff (filmstrip projectors, school electronics, old
terminals not worth taking apart) and leave it on the sidewalk overnight. We
would then go up several floors and watch people go by, screech to a halt and
fill their cars with as much as they could cram in. We had a great time
watching and it cut our garbage bill in half.
Valuable stuff doesn't get left outside. Go ask. You will be rewarded with
surprises. Let us know what you find.
If you are interested in purchasing some of his scrap, offer him twice the
scrap value. If you or anyone on the list needs help establishing scrap
values please contact me offline.
I have them, I need to dig and transfer to PC though.
From: Gene Buckle <geneb(a)deltasoft.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:58 PM
Subject: Littleboard Lives!
>It's kind of odd hearing a 5.25 disk being formatted after all these
>Of the disks I have with the system, I seem to be missing the tools to
>format a hard drive for the machine.
>They're "H" tools - HINIT, HFORMAT, etc. If anyone here has them, I'd
>really appriciate getting copies! FYI, my BIOS revision is 3.8 - 3.0 is
>the min rev listed in the manual.