test-drb June 2000

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

160 participants
580 discussions

In defense of NASA: was Re: Wirin' up blinkenlights

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> The space program, while costing the taxpayers a sizable amount > of money, has produced huge quantities of spinoff projects and > technologies that have definitely benefitted mankind. I don't personally equate NASA with the space program. Yes, NASA runs the only real space program we have. But while R. D. Davis seems to decry them both, and many others are jumping in to defend both, let me offer an alternative view. For the most part, I have always supported manned space flight. And once upon a time working at NASA was my dream. But over the years, and particularly in the way that they acquired and then deliberately destroyed the Delta Clipper project and prototype (yes I have read the NASA reports in full and I still conclude the engineer who failed to check the landing strut because the instructions he got did not specify to do so most likely did so deliberately and on directions from higher-ups), I have come to see NASA as a bloated bureaucracy that would be best put to sleep. But I would still replace NASA with something that would carry on manned spaceflight. As for individuals, so also for society, that [a] mans reach should exceed his grasp. respectfully submitted, doug quebbeman

25 years

Old laptops as cheap terminals (was Re: Old Macs = cheap terminals)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- allisonp <allisonp(a)world.std.com> wrote: > Don't you need a bidirectional port for the PE3? I have a few of them and > have never tried them on xtclass boxen for that reason. At least the older Xircom adapters can work in nybble-mode with a uni- directional port. I just didn't think they'd break it with the newer models. I want a PE3, not PE2 because of power consumption - the PE3 can be powered off of a parasitic cable (typically from the keyboard jack, but there isn't one on an XT laptop; I was just going to wire one in). There are parameters you can tell the PE3 to use when connecting the driver, but I'd have to look them up; I haven't actually used a parallel port adapter since I was at McMurdo. > What I'd like to find is a driver for that that works under win95, nt4, > linux or Minix. the ones I have are dos, win3.x and maybe OS/2 V??. AFAIK, there will never be any newer drivers because Xircom isn't forthcoming with their internals details. I tried for a long time to get info out of them so I could adapt a PE3 to the Amiga, but they formally rejected my written propsal because they didn't want to be in anything but the DOS market. Since then, they've been more flexible, so the newer PCMCIA Xircom NICs work, but I have this CE-10BT that only works under older stuff (fortunately, I do happen to have a PCMCIA NIC or two that _is_ supported under Linux; my CE3B-100BTX the only thing I have for the laptop that will go 100Mbps and isn't Cardbus). -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com

25 years

Wirin' up blinkenlights

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

For a lot of things, maybe...but lots of computational tasks simply aren't well suited to running on a thousand tiny buzzing Intel processors. -Dave McGuire On June 8, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Well . . . you're right, but it might read, "300 PC's replace CRAY - film at > 11." That's in place of the popular Cheers or Frasier reruns . . . > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: Wirin' up blinkenlights > > > > > > PC replaces Cray...film at 11. > > > > Not quite yet, I'm afraid. The PC isn't the end-all, be-all of > > computing. > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > On June 8, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Careful, now . . . due to the passage of time and the change of the > > > "climate" the PDP's, Vaxen, Cray's, etc, that are sitting in basements > and > > > garages are the toys now, and the former toys, the PC's, are the "real" > > > computers. Bizzarre, isn't it? > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: R. D. Davis <rdd(a)smart.net> > > > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 4:45 PM > > > Subject: Re: Wirin' up blinkenlights > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > simulator and a PDP-11/45 front panel with no CPU boards. I'd > like to > > > do > > > > > > sort of a faux PDP-11/45 with this setup by somehow wiring the > front > > > panel > > > > > > up to the PC running Sim. > > > > > > > > > > > > Am I completely out of my mind, or is there even the remotest > chance > > > of > > > > > > > > > > We're all out of our minds on this list ;-) > > > > > > > > Actually, I think that adding blinking lights, and switches, to any > > > > computer is a good idea, and, as my PDP-11s don't have lights and > > > > switches, I think it's time to add them... by creating a separate rack > > > > panel, of course. Has anyone here added lights and switches to one of > > > > the PDP-11s of incomplete design? > > > > > > > > > It's _possible_. It's probably less work to find a set of 11/45 CPU > > > > > boards and get them working, but it's still _possible_ to do what > you > > > ask. > > > > > > > > The idea of finding a set of PDP-11 boards is a better idea, as then > the > > > > front panel could be used with non-toy computer equipment. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > R. D. Davis > > > > rdd(a)perqlogic.com > > > > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd > > > > 410-744-4900 > > > > > >

25 years

Decwriter III's in Kansas City

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

I have two Decwriter III's that were taken out of service in January. They were working when turned off. They are not light weight. I will send them to anyone who wants them for $10 each plus shipping. The $10 is to find a box/pallet and haul them to the shipping office. Anybody can have them for free if they want to pick them up. The other option is I donate them to the computer surplus. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years

Q-bus (was Re: Wirin' up blinkenlights)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- allisonp <allisonp(a)world.std.com> wrote: > >Interesting idea, a Q-bus front panel. > > > >signals are there as well. A DMA cycle can take forever so you could build > > nope, it will bus timout on you. Boy did we find that out the hard way. The Software Results Q-Board was built back in the days of the MicroVAX-I and MicroPDP-11. The designers picked some time (by tapping off of a stage on a divide-by-N counter) to timeout while waiting for a DMA cycle. It was well outside the Q-bus spec of the day. This board worked in MicroVAX-II and -III designs with no complaint. Eventually, someone wanted to stick a Q-Board in a VAX 4000 with a TLZ04 interface. By the time this machine came out, the Q-bus was no longer implemented in the way it once was. Certain cards were no longer "in spec". The upshot of this was that the TLZ04 interface could grab the bus longer than the Q-Board would wait. The fix was to redesign the bus timeout circuit (a cut and a jump and a new PAL) because DEC sure wasn't going to change their interface to work in an older Qbus box. It took us quite a while to find this one because our board didn't change and there were no problems in 99% of the VAX 4000s out there. It was a piggy controller. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com

25 years

OT: Re: In defense of NASA

by mtapley＠swri.edu

R. D. et al, (* Disclaimer: I'm full time on a NASA project, the IMAGE mission, though my direct employer is Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, Texas, who does a lot of commercial space work as well as NASA. My views are mine alone, however, and do not represent company policy nor that of NASA. *) ... so you know which side my bread's buttered on, and by the way if you are a taxpayer, I thank you very much for your support and hope you feel that you get your money's worth out of IMAGE (http://pluto.space.swri.edu/IMAGE/) (you can see data on some of the links referenced there). I've worked hard to make it so. > Has the space program had any positive influence on >spirituality and humanity's relationship with Nature? Yes. Remember the photo of the Earth, taken by the returning Apollo mission? Or Earthrise over the moon? That's a perspective that could never have been achieved without manned spaceflight. (I say manned, because no machine would have been programmed to look in the right direction at the right time, and notice the incredible aesthetic impact of that image, and capture it.) Its value is of course subjective - but there's a generation grown now that *knows*, because they've seen it, that Earth is just a big blue marble and not the entire universe. For better or worse, it's a finite planet. Is the ozone hole a big deal? Maybe, maybe not; but we would never have known about it - because we would never have noticed it - without the *global* data that could only be provided by satellite observations. What about global warming? We might have picked that up in 10 or 15 years from temperature measurements at land stations, or maybe not. In any case, it would have taken more years for global climate modelers to convince everyone else that the land data they had, plus limited sea-surface measurements from ships, really did amount to a significant change. Global sea-surface temperature measurements, collected by satellites, provided that insight to us about a quarter of a century earlier than we would otherwise have had it. Same notation for El Nino. Whether we take advantage of the data we have, and do smart things with it, is an open question, but we would not even have the options, in those cases, without spaceflight. There are similar arguments for land-use patterns, deforestation, pollution (airborne and water-borne) plumes, etc etc etc. Not that the data *could* not be collected without spacecraft - but that it would have been a lot harder and more expensive and in most cases *would* not have been done. We know our terrestrial problems better because of space activities. Communications satellites carry WWF, so maybe I shouldn't bring those up, .... oh heck yes I should. Living in North America, I can watch NHK news live broadcasts from Japan (for example). Is that a cultural benefit? You bet. I can see, and hear (and heck, maybe one day even understand) what's being thought and done about problems I don't even have (earthquakes? volcanoes? not in Texas), half a big blue marble away. Cultures I would never know existed are as close as a twist of a knob. Sure, some of that could be done with undersea lines - but not as soon and not as cheaply as with a satellite link. As for the Columbus argument ... I'm always nervous about that one. For me as a born Texan, descended of Germand and English settlers, heck yeah it was great that Isabella hocked her jewelry to pay for that expedition. As a Spaniard, I'd probably be a bit less enthusiastic; I mean looking at Spain now, it didn't do them much good in the long term. As a native American, I'd be pretty bummed about it - why didn't the silly Europeans stay over there and pave Europe? Depends on your perspective. But what I do think Spain bought for Columbus' trip, and was cheap at the price, and what I think NASA has bought for us and was *incredibly* cheap at the price, is potential. We know we *can* build solar power satellites and beam microwave energy to Earth to supply electricity for our classic computers :-) without contributing (as much) to global warming. We know we can put long-term facilities in low Earth orbit for medical reasons or biomedical research or crystallography or whatever. We know we can put people on the Moon and bring them home intact. We know we can go to Mars and colonize it, if we choose to. Those options are expensive, and some of them may not be worth it - it's a choice we have to make. But the fact that we *have* the choice is worth a lot to us as a nation, or as a species. - Mark

25 years

OT Ranting (blather blather blather) Re: In defense of NASA: was Re: Wirin' up blinkenlights

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > I look foward to your answers, and if I'm wrong or am overlooking > > something, I'd very much like to know about it. > > Dude, one word: TANG! I dittoed a Davis rant the other day, today I gotta nix one. Sellam, let me second your motion with- Teflon! -doug q

25 years

In defense of NASA: was Re: Wirin' up blinkenlights

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> > Do any computer preservationists seriously use their > systems to heat their > > houses in the winter in place of a furnace? > I live in South Florida... Even a PC will keep my house warm. Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

25 years

In defense of NASA: was Re: Wirin' up blinkenlights

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@smart.net] > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 1:35 AM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: In defense of NASA: was Re: Wirin' up blinkenlights > > > On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > I think the space programme is invaluable. How else are we > going to find > > a place to ship Trent Lott? I for one, was glad when Congressman John Glenn went back into space. Although, I was a bit disappointed when he returned. Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

25 years

Old laptops as cheap terminals (was Re: Old Macs = cheap terminals)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>I bought an ancient Zenith XT laptop (dual 720K floppies) for $10 at a local >box shop explicity for a terminal. I have a DOS 3.3 boot disk in it with >Kermit, and away I go. If I could lay my hands on a cheap Xircom PE3 (no >flames, please), I'd use the laptop as an IP "terminal", too (for the Don't you need a bidirectional port for the PE3? I have a few of them and have never tried them on xtclass boxen for that reason. What I'd like to find is a driver for that that works under win95, nt4, linux or Minix. the ones I have are dos, win3.x and maybe OS/2 V??. Allison

25 years

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test-drb June 2000